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Sony Ericsson Canada was among the latest Sony online properties to be hacked and lose customer records. Sites in Indonesia and Thailand were also compromised and take down.  (Source: Wayfaring)
Should Sony quit the internet?

It's almost unprecedented.  We haven't seen something quite like this, since -- well, the days of the great Sony Corp. (6758battery recall.  It seems like every day there's a new Sony web property that's been compromised.

In recent weeks the company's two largest databases -- the PlayStation Network (PSN) database and the Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) database -- were fully compromised, multiple music sites/databases [1] [2] were compromised via SQL injection, $1,225 USD in points were stolen from a Sony ISP subsidiary, and Sony's servers were found to be hosting a malicious phishing page.

Now yet another attack has struck the befuddled company.

This time around hackers have struck Sony Ericsson’s Eshop online store for mobile phones in Canada, making off with 2,000 customer records.  The records include names, email addresses and encrypted passwords, Sony wrote in a statement it released late yesterday.

Idahca, a Lebanese hacking group, has claimed responsibility in a Pastebin dump of user records for the attack.  The hackers said that they could have gathered more sensitive details like credit cards, but declined to.

Sony sites in Thailand and Indonesia were also compromised, bringing the total of major breaches to 10 or possibly 11, based on our accounting.  It appears that all of these sites were infiltrated using the same SQL injection attack route (affectionately nicknamed a "Little Bobby Tables" attack), which took down the Sony BMG Greece and Japan sites earlier this week.  Sony appears to have done nothing effective to prevent its other sites, even after the earlier compromises.

Credit card information is stored on an e-commerce website, a standalone platform.  This platform is separate from the servers on which the user database is found.  Idahca's comments indicate that the group claims to have had access to the e-commerce servers as well.  Sony has shut down both the user server and the e-commerce servers, while it tries to investigate the breach.

Phil Lieberman, CEO of online security consulting firm Lieberman Software, said Sony made a fatal mistake in the flagrantly hostile approach it took towards the hacking community, with regards to Linux on the Sony PlayStation 3 -- a use it initially promoted.  He states, "Telling them to bring it on is not the best strategy. I think Sony is beginning to understand it horribly underinvested in security."

He said Sony's decision to sue beloved hardware hacker George "GeoHot" Hotz provoked "nuclear responses" from hackers.  Sony's suit against GeoHot was particularly controversial as the company sought -- and was granted access by federal courts -- to GeoHot's personal Twitter, Facebook, Gmail, and other accounts -- seemingly a gross invasion of privacy.

Sony is confident it will pay only $2 USD per lost record from its various web properties.  That's less than 1 percent of the average payout of $318 USD per lost record that was the average in 2010.  And in recent years the cost of data lost has tended to increase by a factor of 1.5 each year.  Clearly Sony is hoping for some sort of miracle to save it financially.

Sony also needs some sort of miracle to prevent more attacks.  Even with plenty of forewarning, Sony still looks as inept as ever; utterly clueless at securing its online properties.  The company clearly is lost as to what to do.  Of course -- worst case scenario -- Sony could always quit the internet.

The company is currently facing returns of its products internationally and class action lawsuits from disgruntled former customers.



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Angry little men
By deanx0r on 5/25/2011 9:27:29 AM , Rating: 2
While I don't agree with Sony's tactics, in the end, the real victims are the customers caught in this crossfire between Sony and angry little men.

Hackers: we heard you, but thanks for ruining the day, assholes.




RE: Angry little men
By Mitch101 on 5/25/2011 9:36:22 AM , Rating: 5
I think Sony are the ones who opened fire first, second, third. One offering Linux on a product then pulling back with support, two attacking someone who's intention wasnt to copy games but to restore that functionality, third sony mouthing off to the hacking community.

Sony has to start asking itself was it worth it? Repeated compromises of personal information? I like the games and I like being able to play them online but I like my identity more. This is a PR disaster.

PS4? I think a lot of people are going to remember this fiasco and a lot of it seems like it could have been avoided.


RE: Angry little men
By Reclaimer77 on 5/25/2011 10:22:10 AM , Rating: 4
Ok I do NOT give a shit that maybe 100 people in the entire planet want to run Linux on a console. I'm tired of hearing that.

I DO care that PSN was down for a goddamn MONTH because of something that doesn't even impact me!

I'm an adult. We don't lash out and blow stuff up when we get pissed or someone doesn't let us have our way. And we don't ruin everything for millions of people who don't even care about our self importance. Grow up!

Fuck these hackers. As bad as Sony is, these hackers just ruined everything for EVERYONE. The Linux issue is just a crummy excuse for bad, and illegal, behavior.


RE: Angry little men
By Reclaimer77 on 5/25/2011 10:25:33 AM , Rating: 2
Oh and stealing peoples credit card information? Please try to tell me how that's just the hackers crusading against Sony for the benefit of all of us! Putting millions of people at risk for theft and identify theft nightmares, all for what?


RE: Angry little men
By dsx724 on 5/25/2011 11:22:34 AM , Rating: 5
How about you hire competent people and pay them more instead of hiring bottom feeders and stacking shitty management on top?


RE: Angry little men
By Daemyion on 5/26/2011 6:45:16 AM , Rating: 2
Throwing more engineers at the problem doesn't guarantee success. The only corporations out there that might have withstood such an onslaught are Microsoft and Google, and that's because hackers have been hammering away at them ever since they opened for business.

A security model only really gets tested in a trial-by-fire, and I doubt Sony had to contend with anything like this before.


RE: Angry little men
By mooty on 5/26/2011 9:54:39 AM , Rating: 2
Don't forget that Google was hacked recently too.


RE: Angry little men
By Daemyion on 5/26/2011 10:39:17 AM , Rating: 2
Too true... that leaves Microsoft?

God save us... ;)


RE: Angry little men
By Mitch101 on 5/25/2011 1:53:31 PM , Rating: 5
I dont disagree there are more adult ways of going about an issue like this however consider that Sony marketed this to the hacker/modder community, pulled the plug, then went after them when they tried to restore functionality then mocked them. They picked a fight and the community fired back. All it takes is one person not happy about it whos motive is not personal gain. I doubt credit information is what they were after I suspect that could be Sony saying credit card information was stolen in order to get federal support or depending on how their database was set up the query to get user information may have been in the same table as credit information and the hackers wound up getting credit card information when they pulled client data. A select statement on a database table can grab everything and if sony failed to encrypt with a salted hash then credit data was leaked possibly unintentionally received. If Sony Salted the data with a good hash the data is useless without the salt. From what Ive seen on the PS3 exploits Sony cut a lot of corners and failed to protect important data properly using the same key.

As for the downtime I suspect that's Sony's decision to collect evidence, rewrite code, patch, and secure everything. Apparently they have a lot of changes to make.


RE: Angry little men
By freeagle on 5/25/2011 2:06:46 PM , Rating: 5
It may hurt, but I guess this is the most efficient way of making the company and it's like to get more involved in securing customer information. And also make the common people interested in net security.

The conclusion from your statement would be, that the bigger the company and it's customer base, the less it needs to care about security, because who in their right mind would spoil the fun for the masses.

Sometimes we need to get burned in order to realize the stove is hot to touch...


RE: Angry little men
By quiksilvr on 5/26/2011 2:14:35 AM , Rating: 2
That's why Sony shouldn't be involved with the security?

What's the solution? Google Playstation and Paypal. Done and done. They already have a close partnership, you might as well go all out.


RE: Angry little men
By BailoutBenny on 5/25/2011 5:06:51 PM , Rating: 5
Reclaimer, you rail against the government for its shitty behavior, perhaps even practicing a little civil disobedience along the way yet you yell at the hackers for doing their thing and sticking it to the man?

I support these hackers in their actions because they weren't afraid to get in trouble to prove a point. I wish more civilians had the hacker mentality when it comes to lashing out against the government instead of doing nothing but talking and stamping their feet.


RE: Angry little men
By erple2 on 5/27/2011 1:41:05 AM , Rating: 2
I shudder to say this, but I agree with Reclaimer77. While it's nice and dandy and marvelous to figure out how to "stick it to the man", I am troubled by the swath of innocent destruction that is left in it's wake.

While it may be true that Sony dropped the ball on security, the net result is that there are millions of innocent people who are paying the price. That's unfortunately the pretty crappy part.

Also - civil disobedience last I checked didn't involve kicking the crap out of innocent bystanders. To throw a near-strawman at this, would you support dropping a nuke on, say, Tripoli because you disagreed with the policies of one member of the government there? That's a lot of dead people just to try and take out one or a small group of bad guys.

Do I think that the hackers were pretty clever to do this? Sure, though based on the details of the hack I've learned, it appears that Sony wasn't particularly keen on security. Do I think that taking a bunch of people's information that are in no way associated with Sony (other than they may have purchased a Sony product) is the right way to do it? No. Do I have a better alternative? Also no.

I'm all for sticking it to someone who's a bit high on themselves (stupidity in govt, Sony with it's corporate policies), but don't drag down innocent bystanders in your blaze of glory.


RE: Angry little men
By putergeek00 on 5/25/2011 10:35:35 AM , Rating: 2
Wow! For once I completely, wholeheartedly agree with you.. :)


RE: Angry little men
By DEVGRU on 5/25/11, Rating: 0
RE: Angry little men
By Reclaimer77 on 5/25/2011 10:52:05 AM , Rating: 5
I don't own a PS3 and never have. It is possible to be objective and have empathy even if I'm not personally affected, you know?

Take your teenage "u mad bro" trolling attempts and shove them up your ass. Your post was a giant waste of time and contributed nothing to the conversation.


RE: Angry little men
By Botia on 5/25/2011 12:29:43 PM , Rating: 4
1) I believe it was Sony who brought down PSN, not the hackers.
2) If Sony is PCI compliant, the hackers should not be able to get personally identifiable information or credit card information.
3) Sony sold a product and then revoked the use of the product that was sold. This is not legal.

Sony needs to go back to 10-20 years ago when they made good products. You could depend on a Sony. It lasted for decades. Now they've got crumby products all around, including their web infrastructure. I for one will steer clear of them for a while.


RE: Angry little men
By nikon133 on 5/25/2011 6:45:24 PM , Rating: 2
Well PS3 as a product is not bad - I'm not talking about services but about product itself. Minimal number of failures, comparing to X360 for example.

But services, yes - it appears they are way behind MS and Xbox. Of course, that opinion might change should someone manage to pull something like this on Xbox Live.


RE: Angry little men
By Paj on 5/25/2011 12:51:00 PM , Rating: 4
Completely agree.

One upshot to take out of it though is that it will probably encourage future tech related products to be more supportive of the homebrew/enthusiast community, and realise its a losing battle trying to fight them. Microsoft making the Kinect hack-able, and even encouraging users to do so, is a great example of this, and how it can generate positive PR for the company.


RE: Angry little men
By M4gery on 5/25/2011 4:03:20 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
One upshot to take out of it though is that it will probably encourage future tech related products to be more supportive of the homebrew/enthusiast community, and realise its a losing battle trying to fight them. Microsoft making the Kinect hack-able, and even encouraging users to do so, is a great example of this, and how it can generate positive PR for the company.


Yup, and if Sony had pursued this route with the PSP and really supported the homebrew community, they might have monkey-stomped the GBA and DS, or at least be a very strong competitor.


RE: Angry little men
By Daemyion on 5/26/2011 6:38:47 AM , Rating: 2
Out of all the consoles out there, past and present, this has happened to the one that was arguably the most open. Regardless of what really happened, Sony got the impression that OtherOS was used to make in-roads against it's drm model, yanked the support, and ended up where they are today.

Chances are that because of this any console in the future will be locked down as tight as possible. Why take the chance with such a fickle community? Especially when the feature appeals to less than 5% of the install base?


RE: Angry little men
By Paj on 5/26/2011 7:49:13 AM , Rating: 2
Someone posted a link to an article of how some US defense agency bought several hundred PS3s and hooked them all up to create a supercomputer at a fraction of the cost it would have been if made using off the shelf components. This was done when it was more open however.

Pretty cool!


RE: Angry little men
By Daemyion on 5/26/2011 9:40:34 AM , Rating: 2
Indeed, but there are two things to consider here:
The DOD doesn't play games on the PS3 and as such probably doesn't connect them to the internet or patch them. So it is highly likely that the removal of OtherOS didn't affect them at all.
The DOD would have been better off buying CELL chips from IBM direct, rather than having something primarily designed as a gaming machine be converted to doing work. There's a good reason why a different level of support for mission critical items exists.

Finally, this still wouldn't coerce future console and handheld manufacturers to create more open systems. In fact, this kind of behaviour* reinforces the notion, both for manufactures and prospective alternate-needs clients, that there should be a strong divide between consumer oriented gaming systems and general purpose/mission critical hardware. Any project built around the DOD test case would do well to stop considering gaming hardware as a viable low cost alternative.

* the hacking, not the DOD project obviously


RE: Angry little men
By Aloonatic on 5/26/2011 8:24:13 AM , Rating: 2
Can't say that I agree with you.

They'll never give people access to their hardware again, and as someone points out, Sony made the mistake of actually being a class leader on this front, but then changed their minds and became just like Nintendo and MS. Queue angry "enthusiasts".

What they are going to do is try to make the homebrew/enthusiast community work for them, which is what they are doing now. They'll create community portals where enthusiasts can do what they want and create games etc within the parameters set by Sony, MS, etc and make games that channel create energies more profitably, like LBP, but even more involved.

You know, I know, everyone knows that the reason behind the otherOS being pulled was to stop (well, delay) the console being hacked/chipped or at least to make it more inconvenient for people to play pirated games and software.

No large company is going to make their hardware even more open. They just give too much earning potential away when they do that. Sure, more people might buy their consoles if they did, but then they might not make money back in the long run, so they wil have to make initial unit proces highter, and then the closed console that still plays the lastest CoD game is a lot cheaper to start with, so that's what peopel will buy.

It's a nice idea, but outside of the enthusiast/homebrew community where people may genuinely just want to harmlessly tinker and experiment with hardware, you need to realise that for 99.999999999% of people, making console "open" is purely about piracy, and that group makes up 99.999999999% (well, the vast majority by far) of the global market.


RE: Angry little men
By KarmakazeNZ on 5/25/2011 5:21:27 PM , Rating: 1
"Ok I do NOT give a shit that maybe 100 people in the entire planet want to run Linux on a console. I'm tired of hearing that."

And I'm even more tired of hearing a bunch of whiny gamers complaining about not being able to play their games.

"I DO care that PSN was down for a goddamn MONTH because of something that doesn't even impact me!"

Funny, PSN being down doesn't impact the hackers... so sucks to be you.

"I'm an adult. We don't lash out and blow stuff up when we get pissed or someone doesn't let us have our way."

Sony lashed out at every PS3 owner because of the actions of one man, then lashed out at everyone who ever visited one of GeoHot's sites, whether they ever bought or hacked a Sony product, and the courts even helped them.

Remember the hack isn't the FIRST act of the hackers. They asked politely. They explained why taking OtherOS away wouldn't help Sony's security. They even took Sony to court.

Sony's reaction was to punish everyone for one person's act ('collective punishment' is a crime against humanity), then breach people's privacy with the help of the court.

The hackers have simply responded in kind.

PSN is down because Sony is incompetent. The hackers tried to warn them about it too.

"And we don't ruin everything for millions of people who don't even care about our self importance."

So when OtherOS was stolen from millions of people, you didn't care because it meant you could avoid cheaters in your games, but that wasn't being selfish. When the people who were stolen from did everything they could to get back what they paid for, you cheered Sony on, not even caring about their heavy-handed tactics against innocent people.

You didn't care that this was about software licensing and could easily effect you if Sony decides to "take back" Call Of Duty or some other piece of software that YOU bought, but they don't want you to have any more.

NO, that doesn't matter because it won't effect you, right?

Well, it does now. You have no right to complain. You didn't give a shit about the hackers, so they don't give a shit about you.


RE: Angry little men
By Nfarce on 5/25/2011 7:57:00 PM , Rating: 3
About 77 million people disagree with your premises, Karma. And you bet your ASS people have a right to complain being OUT OF SERVICE for over a month.

There were other ways to go after Sony. In the end, we the PS3 users were the sacrificial lambs. And you can bet the hacker community lost some brownie points with those who were sympathetic to their causes.

END OF DISCUSSION.


RE: Angry little men
By Uncle on 5/26/2011 2:30:04 AM , Rating: 3
Oh their might of been one or two of you upset.


RE: Angry little men
By Dark Legion on 5/26/2011 1:03:47 PM , Rating: 3
You the PS3 users are sacrificial lambs to both the hackers AND Sony, don't kid yourself. Sony certainly played their part with lax security and taunting, but this shouldn't have been able to happen, period.

By my understanding, none of this information has been used as of yet, and who knows if or when it will be? At the end of the day it could turn out no harm done and you customers could have a Sony product that is actually secure, though that remains to be seen.


RE: Angry little men
By Reclaimer77 on 5/25/11, Rating: -1
RE: Angry little men
By slyck on 5/25/2011 6:09:47 PM , Rating: 5
"Ok I do NOT give a shit that maybe 100 people in the entire planet want to run Linux on a console."

"I'm an adult."

No, it does not compute. You are a whiny self-centered child. Maybe nobody gives a damn about you either.


RE: Angry little men
By smitty3268 on 5/25/2011 10:27:46 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I'm an adult. We don't lash out and blow stuff up when we get pissed or someone doesn't let us have our way. And we don't ruin everything for millions of people who don't even care about our self importance. Grow up!

Bwahahaha! This is pretty much the definition of everything on Fox News and MSNBC, and political movements like the Tea Party and the unions in Wisconsin or wherever those protests were.

quote:
Fuck these hackers. As bad as Sony is, these hackers just ruined everything for EVERYONE. The Linux issue is just a crummy excuse for bad, and illegal, behavior.

Sorry you're inconvenienced, but you're complaining to the wrong people. Sony is the only one who can address these issues. Maybe in the future they won't be so quick to steal from their own customers.


RE: Angry little men
By Reclaimer77 on 5/25/11, Rating: -1
RE: Angry little men
By smitty3268 on 5/25/2011 11:28:21 PM , Rating: 3
That's like saying a car company can come by your house and rip out all the airbags from your car. Most people don't really care about airbags, because they're something that you never use. But the truth is that the car company advertised the car's safety, and many people may have bought it specifically for that reason. There were in fact many people who bought dozens of PS3's as compute clusters because it was a cheap way to get a Cell CPU. Just because you weren't interested in the feature doesn't mean others weren't.

quote:
It's their device

And here i thought i actually bought it. Apparently I'm just renting...

quote:
Sony has NO obligation to support Linux on the PS3. Sorry. You. Are. Wrong.

Legally, I suppose that depends on where you are and what laws are present. Morally, they absolutely have an obligation. If you think otherwise, You. Are. Wrong.

quote:
You can't justify the hackers behavior, you can try but you'll just come off looking like someone with dubious judgment and no ethical center.

I don't have to. Forget about their behavior, and try to justify Sony's. You can't justify it any more than the hackers. I definitely have an ethical center, from my point of view it's you who is coming off as someone who likes screwing others over.

quote:
What does that have to do with ANYTHING? Politicize much? That's the dumbest parody I've ever heard.

The point is that your claim that people are adults and should behave as such is laughable. It simply is not an accurate portrayal of reality.


RE: Angry little men
By smitty3268 on 5/25/2011 11:32:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I definitely have an ethical center, from my point of view it's you who is coming off as someone who likes screwing others over.

Scratch that, it didn't come out quite like I meant it too.

What i meant was, you are coming off as a person who isn't bothered by screwing over other people, as long as it doesn't affect you. I find that morally questionable, and very self-centered. Far more than my own stance.


RE: Angry little men
By Reclaimer77 on 5/25/2011 11:37:23 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
That's like saying a car company can come by your house and rip out all the airbags from your car.


Straw man. That's not "like saying". That would be violating your personal property and trespassing. Sony REMOTELY de-activated a feature through firmware. Not the same, not even close.

quote:
And here i thought i actually bought it. Apparently I'm just renting...


You act like something new has happened here. Do you live in a cave? It's called a EULA, ever heard of it? EVERYONE uses one. YES it's your device, and you can use it however you want as long as it complies with Sony's EULA that you AGREED upon.

quote:
Morally, they absolutely have an obligation. If you think otherwise, You. Are. Wrong.


Sony has a moral obligation to support Linux? Ok good luck pushing that position.

I think we're done here.


RE: Angry little men
By Reclaimer77 on 5/25/2011 11:39:36 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
That's like saying a car company can come by your house and rip out all the airbags from your car


Oh and if Sony came by peoples houses and ripped up the consoles with Linux on them then this analogy would actually work, and I would agree with you.


RE: Angry little men
By smitty3268 on 5/25/2011 11:44:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Straw man. That's not "like saying". That would be violating your personal property and trespassing. Sony REMOTELY de-activated a feature through firmware. Not the same, not even close.

I bought a feature. The feature was taken away. End of story. Ok, how about this - you bought a cell phone. Verizon suddenly turns off all it's cell towers, and the phone is now completely useless. Or closer still - you buy a 3G phone and are using it, until suddenly AT&T tells you they are turning off all their 3G towers because people are pirating stuff over the bandwidth it provides and now you have to live with slower service. Even though they originally touted that 3G service and how fast their phones were. Hey, most people don't use 3G anyway, right?

quote:
You act like something new has happened here. Do you live in a cave? It's called a EULA, ever heard of it? EVERYONE uses one. YES it's your device, and you can use it however you want as long as it complies with Sony's EULA that you AGREED upon.

Did you see that recent episode of South Park about Apple? The human cent-IPAD? Yeah - I've probably agreed to EULA's that say I owe someone a kidney. That doesn't necessarily mean anything legally - especially if you can only view and agree to that EULA AFTER you've already paid. If you click NO, will you get a refund?

quote:
Sony has a moral obligation to support Linux? Ok good luck pushing that position.

Of course not. They have a moral obligation to make sure they don't remove any features that were heavily advertised in order to make sales. Just like any other company or person taking money in exchange for a product or service.


RE: Angry little men
By Reclaimer77 on 5/26/2011 12:27:36 AM , Rating: 2
Again your extreme straw man analogies are ridiculous.

quote:
Verizon suddenly turns off all it's cell towers, and the phone is now completely useless.


Ridiculous analogy. Sony did not turn off the PS3, it's fully functional. Just stop. If anyone turned something off, it was the hackers.

quote:
Or closer still - you buy a 3G phone and are using it, until suddenly AT&T tells you they are turning off all their 3G towers because people are pirating stuff over the bandwidth it provides and now you have to live with slower service.


Again, not even close. That would break key functionality. STOP!

quote:
Yeah - I've probably agreed to EULA's that say I owe someone a kidney.


Absurd, no you haven't.

quote:
That doesn't necessarily mean anything legally


Wrong, EULA's are exactly legal.

Tell me something, has a federal judge looked into Sony for this supposed illegal removal of the "heavily advertised" Linux feature? NO. That might clue you in. A company as heavily over sighted as Sony couldn't pull this off if it wasn't completely above board.


RE: Angry little men
By smitty3268 on 5/26/2011 1:58:26 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Sony did not turn off the PS3, it's fully functional.

No, it's not. Where did you get that ridiculous idea from?

quote:
If anyone turned something off, it was the hackers.

Do you even know what's going on? First, Sony turned off a key feature in the PS3. Then hackers broke into their website - they did not turn off anything. Then Sony decided to turn off the website until they could create a new one that would be safer.

quote:
That would break key functionality. STOP!

Exactly, just like Sony did.

quote:
Wrong, EULA's are exactly legal.

Plenty of EULA's have been struck down in court. Others have been upheld. It's taken on a case by case basis.

quote:
Tell me something, has a federal judge looked into Sony for this supposed illegal removal of the "heavily advertised" Linux feature? NO. That might clue you in. A company as heavily over sighted as Sony couldn't pull this off if it wasn't completely above board.

They have in Europe. Like i said, legally speaking it depends on where you live and what laws you are covered by. Morally speaking it's a completely different matter.

This whole thing seems to break down to you arbitrarily deciding that OtherOS support wasn't an important feature. I'm sure that's what you believe, but it's not reality. Sony marketing sure didn't think so, anyway. If Sony decided to remotely disable one of the games you are trying to play on the PS3 and defended it by saying you had agreed to the EULA you'd be screaming bloody murder. The only difference is that you actually care about the game and not the OtherOS feature - plenty of other people are in exactly the opposite situation, and couldn't care less about the PSN but do care about the OtherOS feature. YOU ARE NOT THE SOLE ARBITER OF WHAT IS USEFUL AND WHY OTHERS BOUGHT THE PS3.


RE: Angry little men
By haplo602 on 5/26/2011 2:51:25 AM , Rating: 2
smitty3268 you have my admiration for trying to argue with that 1d10t. it is evident from his first 2 posts, that he cannot see past things directly stuck under his nose.


RE: Angry little men
By Reclaimer77 on 5/26/2011 6:37:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
First, Sony turned off a key feature in the PS3.


And that's where your argument gets retarded. Key feature? No. Not even close. Maybe a "gee wiz" feature for those Linux wackos, but their in such a minority it's not even funny.

Netflix support. Blu-Ray playback. Blu-Ray Live support. Playstation Network. These are "key" features and are what the public cares about.

quote:
If Sony decided to remotely disable one of the games you are trying to play on the PS3 and defended it by saying you had agreed to the EULA you'd be screaming bloody murder.


Apparently extreme analogies and stupid straw men are the only way you can debate something. This is the dumbest thing you've said since the Verizon turning off cell phones crock. This would NEVER happen. Just another smitty stupid "what if" that's not relevant at ALL.

Damn right people would scream bloody murder if a $60 game was made to not work. How much does Linux and the OtherOS feature cost people again? Oh yeah, NOTHING.

quote:
YOU ARE NOT THE SOLE ARBITER OF WHAT IS USEFUL AND WHY OTHERS BOUGHT THE PS3.


Yes, actually yes I am. Just get used to it. I AM A LIVING GOD!


RE: Angry little men
By Uncle on 5/26/2011 2:40:38 AM , Rating: 2
"YES it's your device, and you can use it however you want as long as it complies with Sony's EULA that you AGREED upon."
Why is the EULA always inside the box and you can't read it until you get it home and open it up. The only thing the EULA does is take all your rights away and gives it to sony or who ever. Its guys like you with your attitude that keeps giving these Corporations more power over the consumer. Your the type of person who would let these jokers take your warranty away as long as you got to play with your toy.


RE: Angry little men
By Reclaimer77 on 5/26/2011 6:41:10 PM , Rating: 1
When has a warranty ever been "taken away"? Jesus you're as much of a dumbshit as that other guy.

I don't care what you think, there is NO excuse for the behavior of these hackers.


RE: Angry little men
By Uncle on 5/27/2011 12:33:46 AM , Rating: 2
You missed my point, I said IF sony did take your warranty away you'd let them as long as you got to play with your toy. Sounds like you have the twitch of an addict not getting your drug of choice.


RE: Angry little men
By Uncle on 5/26/2011 2:27:45 AM , Rating: 2
As I've written before, theirs more to this story then hacking sony, Google "sony charged with price fixing", this crap that sony dishes out goes back years. One of their executives stated he saw nothing wrong with price fixing, it helps consumers not to be confused with all the different prices in the stores. What a bunch of idiots they have running sony. It does my heart good to see this brought on to sony. Hopefully a few at the top get demoted by the shareholders.


RE: Angry little men
By MindParadox on 5/26/2011 4:36:08 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ok I do NOT give a shit that maybe 100 people in the entire planet want to run Linux on a console. I'm tired of hearing that.


yeah? maybe the several hundred PS3 running linux at each of several military bases in an attempt to lower spending on servers shouldnt be talked about either, hmm?

or companies that were using them in that manner all over the world?

trust me, it was WAY more than 100 people, hell, even more than 100 companies!
and dailytech even did stories on that fact when they removed the "other os" option. try having a memory of more than a few weeks there bud


RE: Angry little men
By deanx0r on 5/25/2011 10:24:46 AM , Rating: 2
Sony is surely not without fault. But it does not matter who started it nor who will win it. Customers are the ones getting shafted here. This war will probably put Sony further deep in the red. Who do you think they will pass those expenses on?

Certainly not the hackers.


RE: Angry little men
By xti on 5/25/11, Rating: -1
RE: Angry little men
By RadnorHarkonnen on 5/25/2011 10:36:47 AM , Rating: 5
Plenty of people bought a PS3 to run linux on it. Some of them just don't game on it. With linux on , it was supercomputing to the masses, without it is just another crappy console.


RE: Angry little men
By Reclaimer77 on 5/25/11, Rating: -1
RE: Angry little men
By Jalek on 5/25/11, Rating: 0
RE: Angry little men
By Cheesew1z69 on 5/26/2011 8:37:15 AM , Rating: 1
RE: Angry little men
By Arsynic on 5/25/11, Rating: 0
RE: Angry little men
By freeagle on 5/25/2011 3:56:59 PM , Rating: 2
The GPU is not the most interesting part of PS3, it's CELL CPU is quite interesting piece of silicon. We used PS3 for some of our school assignments ( yes, running Yellow Dog ) and with clever coding, some algortihms could achieve speeds an order of magnitude higher than their serial versions

Link to speed increases of our assignment results ( I hope it's accessible outside of our university domain). This particular assignment computed the Levenshtein edit distance of 2 strings:
http://ulita.ms.mff.cuni.cz/pub/predn/ppp/ppp10/du...


RE: Angry little men
By poundsmack on 5/25/2011 11:25:31 AM , Rating: 3
Even the US Navy bought a ton of PS3's to run linux on as a super computing platform: http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/213076/u-s-mil...


RE: Angry little men
By kerpwnt on 5/25/2011 10:59:45 AM , Rating: 5
The PS3 isn't a product that "didn't deliver." Sony advertised and shipped the OtherOS feature when the PS3 was launched. Then, a few years later, some Sony exec decided that OtherOS was a threat to their intellectual property and had it removed from all up-to-date consoles. Now, some of their customers feel like Sony has removed a feature that they paid good money for.

This group is obviously a minority, but that doesn't mean their voice should be disregarded.


RE: Angry little men
By Hieyeck on 5/25/2011 12:27:16 PM , Rating: 2
It's a minority with guns, bombs, and fighter jets.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-12-air-playstatio...


RE: Angry little men
By HrilL on 5/25/2011 12:36:57 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah the Navy and Air forces clouds of 20K+ PS3 is 14 people alright. How are they supposed to replace broken PS3s with no way to downgrade them or run Linux on the new firmware. I'm sure they were not the only ones running massive farms of PS3s.


RE: Angry little men
By Reclaimer77 on 5/25/2011 1:10:02 PM , Rating: 2
That's a retarded argument. We're not talking about government use here, obviously. And they could EASILY contract Sony to provide them with special use PS3's. It's a simple matter of firmware after all, hello???

Do you honestly believe the Navy and Air force built these farms with NO agreement with Sony in place before hand? Use your brain!


RE: Angry little men
By HrilL on 5/25/2011 2:47:20 PM , Rating: 3
From what I read they bought them off the shelf just like anyone else. The reason being that Sony and IBM? have actual servers that use the Cell CPUs that cost multiple magnitudes more that they wanted companies and governments to buy. Also the price of a PS3 is bellow that of what it cost to produce because Sony knows they'll normally make that back in game purchases. So in all likelihood No Sony would not have made a deal with them because they would be losing money.


RE: Angry little men
By xti on 5/26/2011 11:33:53 AM , Rating: 1
and paid full price? really?

14 people stands.


RE: Angry little men
By HrilL on 5/26/2011 1:20:31 PM , Rating: 2
buying from a reseller and from Sony is not the same. A reseller could give a rats ass if Sony loses money on each sale. And yes the Navy and Air force would get a volume discount from a reseller... No ones arguing that. But It is doubtful that Sony sold directly to them.


RE: Angry little men
By Uncle on 5/26/2011 2:47:29 AM , Rating: 2
"Who do you think they will pass those expenses on?
Certainly not the hackers. "

and certainly not the consumers who will buy elsewhere.


RE: Angry little men
By nikon133 on 5/25/2011 5:49:09 PM , Rating: 2
Regarding Linux removal, that could have been countered by some fat class action lawsuit... have people really cared for it. Do you really think stealing personal details/credit cards from people already "hurt" by Linux removal was the way to go?

Publishing copy protection crack openly and not expecting majority of people who reach for it will not use it for pirating games? Please.

Regarding that Geo douche, he was asking for publicity - so he got some more than he expected. His hack could have been released quietly but no, he had to steal the show. And at the end, he was let really easily. People get sued by RIAA for hundreds of thousand $ for leaching couple of songs, and this guy opens 40-million-user market to pirating and goes away with a small slap on his hand and big NO-NO? Does it make Sony really that evil? Why don't hackers have a peek at RIAA instead?!?

As it was said - great powers, great responsibility. Something hackers should learn, or be made to learn. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you can do it and go with it.

I agree Sony should open Playstation Store to homebrew apps and games - like Apple's iOS AppStore. Screen apps and remove harmful ones, but let good stuff reach people. I wouldn't mind having decent web browser, Skype, better media player... but that is something to be negotiated with Sony, not enforced by stealing innocent people details.


"I mean, if you wanna break down someone's door, why don't you start with AT&T, for God sakes? They make your amazing phone unusable as a phone!" -- Jon Stewart on Apple and the iPhone














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