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Baddest USAF fighter gets none in Libya  (Source: Air Force Times)
B-2 bombers flew without their Raptor escorts

The U.S. Air Force is engaged in Libya right now and it is using mostly older aircraft like the F-15E to do the heavy fighting and ground attacks. The B-2 stealth bomber was employed though and in many hostile airspace operations the B-2 would have been accompanied by the F-22 Raptor, the most capable air superiority fighter in the USAF arsenal.

However, in Libyan operations the B-2's have apparently flown on a mission without the help from the F-22Air Force Times reports that the reason the F-22 wasn't sent along with three B-2 bombers that bombed targets in Libya was a combination of the lack of need and the limitations of the F-22.

A flight of three B-2 bombers left Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri to make bombing runs in Libya on March 20. Generally, Air Force doctrine would have the B-2s fly with F-22s for protection from enemy fighters. The Air Force Times reports that USAF Maj. Eric Hilliard, spokesman for Africa Command said, "I see no indication that F-22s were used as an escort for the B-2 nor do I see anything that indicates the Raptor will be used in future missions over Libya."

Analyst Mark Gunzinger of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Analysis on Washington said, "Frankly, they [F-22s] might not be needed. Libya’s defenses were not that robust to begin with and were rolled back quite handily."

Other than the F-22s not being needed, perhaps a more telling reason was that the limited capabilities of the Libyan air force have kept the vaunted fighter on the sidelines. Libya fields mostly older fighters and the F-22's performance and capabilities weren’t needed. The F-22 also has a very limited capability to communicate with other coalition aircraft operating in Libya by design. Radio emission from data links that would enable the Raptor to communicate with other fighters would also potentially give the position of the stealthy F-22 away.

Analyst Loren Thompson from the Lexington Institute said, "The designers of the F-22 had a dilemma, which is whether to have the connectivity that would allow versatility or to have the radio silence that would facilitate stealthiest. What they opted for was a limited set of tactical data links."

The F-22 as it is now can only communicate with other F-22's via a data links during flights. Other than the communications issue, the F-22 also has limited capability to hit ground targets. This is to be expected in an air superiority fighter. The F-22 is capable of carrying a pair of 1,000-pound Joint Direct Attack Munitions guided by GPS. It’s can't carry the 250-pound Small Diameter Bombs that the F-15E Strike Eagle and other aircraft can use. The F-22 also lacks that ability to create synthetic aperture maps of the earth surface that are used to select ground targets.

There were plans to add the ability of the F-22 to use the Multifunction Advanced Data-link the F-35 will use, but the finding for that program was pulled last year. That capability would have come in the Increment 3.2 software update for the F-22 and would have also added the ability for the F-22 to target eight ground targets at once.

In 2009, the Senate also pulled funding for additional F-22 fighters.



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RE: Um, no
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 3/23/2011 12:46:35 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
it sends the wrong message politically in a situation where Obama doesn't know what he's doing.


I agree 100% with that. I mean, what the heck are we doing? Obama hasn't made his message clear and I think we deserve some answers.


RE: Um, no
By Mudhen6 on 3/23/2011 12:58:54 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
I agree 100% with that. I mean, what the heck are we doing? Obama hasn't made his message clear and I think we deserve some answers.


I doubt we'd get those answers. Nobody knows who's in charge, what the end-game/exit-strategy is, or even the current mission objectives.


RE: Um, no
By Nfarce on 3/23/11, Rating: 0
RE: Um, no
By vol7ron on 3/23/2011 9:44:57 PM , Rating: 1
I'd like to hear more about this "political committee." Most politicians don't know anything about war. In fact, many give a dull-eyed gaze when you mention "honor" as if it's Old English - the kind of word/phrase that you recognize, but just don't know what it means.

If it's a few ex-military strategists, then I think they might have better ability to make decisions than just one person; especially one that didn't know much about it some short time ago.

That being said, it's important to note that we didn't lose the war of Vietnam. The whole dissonance over that fact has given the war a negative connotation. Sure, many of us died, but more of them died. Regardless of the fact that there's no win in death, the point is we were unprepared for that war. It was guerrilla warfare around a political movement - that alone says enough: "lack of preparation and an excuse to make a stink."

Back on subject, the F-22 is bad-ass. I rather save it for another time shortly in the future.


RE: Um, no
By Regected on 3/23/2011 10:10:09 PM , Rating: 2
Yea, we need as many tricks up our sleeves as we can get when the war with China starts.


RE: Um, no
By Azethoth on 3/24/2011 4:47:10 AM , Rating: 3
Wow people. Read some lips and use some imagination. We are there to implement a "No Move Zone" against the dictator's team. Yes there is a lot of "No Fly Zone" thrown around because that is popular from Iraq and Bosnia. However, "any means necessary" was also chucked in there which makes it "No Move Zone".

Expect anything that moves to be stomped on. Oh wait, no need to expect, just watch it on television. Expect this to keep going until the "rebels" spread out and control all of Libya except for Tripoli.

So thats one part of it. Now for the other part. "Khadaffy Duck has to Go". Or something like that is what the Commander in Chief said. So expect us to kick ass and take names till his dumb ass is done gone.

Now I know that Republicans running for president called for exactly this last week (I am looking at you Newt Gingrinch), but now that Obama is actually doing it you are all flip flopping to "omg no, we dare not invade Libya, we can never win". Man up ffs. USA! USA! USA!

This is so totally not like Vietnam its not even funny. It is though totally like opening stage Afghanistan where we just did air cover for some rag-tag tribes till they conquered the whole place.

If you need to angst about something, then try to worry that we don't fustercluck things after Daffy Duck is gone.


RE: Um, no
By Alexvrb on 3/25/2011 12:39:23 AM , Rating: 2
OK so after we've "contained" Gadhafi and his boys to Tripoli... what then? Do we leave and watch him roll out again? Do we waste Tripoli? Do we park our rears in Libya for the long haul?

If this was Bush, would you STILL be saying "Man up! This ain't Vietnam son!"? I don't think so. Worse yet, you compared this to Afghanistan. You know, one of the places the Democrats wanted us out before Obama was in office? The dissidents have become rather quiet on that front (and others).

How long until he dons the purple robes, I wonder?


RE: Um, no
By Suntan on 3/23/2011 1:31:45 PM , Rating: 4
Not true!

He’s made it completely clear what he is doing… …at least as far as his Sweet 16 tourney bracket is concerned…

-Suntan


RE: Um, no
By AntDX316 on 3/25/2011 3:56:58 AM , Rating: 3
************************************

Because using the F22 with 1,000 LBS bombs cost money.

If there is no need to fly an F22 around the world there is no need. The commanders are smart and used that money, that was going to be used for fueling the F22 and the unecessary cost of ordinance, for other things.

It said in the article the F22 cannot use 250 LBS bombs. They want to use 250 LBS bombs because they can take out the targets on the ground. Using a 1000 LBS bomb would cost 4x more to get the job done.

I honestly believe the US commanders know they have air to air support from the other countries allied with them. The whole Libya war thing needs to be shared. The US taking all the debt would be a bad idea. All that effort has to be taken from somewhere in the end.


RE: Um, no
By Murloc on 3/23/2011 2:03:19 PM , Rating: 3
the onu ordered a no-fly zone, but those who pressured for it and most of those who are now bombing (stuff like tanks included) want gaddafi to go. He's using human shields so they can't kill him either.
Also qadafi has lost any legitimacy in the international community now, so he can't win or everyone will be in front of a really embarassing situation. That's why they will never let him take bengasi anyway.

Obama doesn't know what he's doing and he doesn't give you answers because he can't imho.
I mean, the dilemma is pretty clear.


RE: Um, no
By Lerianis on 3/25/2011 3:57:38 AM , Rating: 2
With all due respect, remember that they said the same thing of Saddam Hussein after the first Iraq War.... it turned out to be not so accurate.

Personally, I think that if we intervene anymore than we have in Libya, we are opening a can of worms that it is the same one that we opened when supporting someone with the initials O.B.L. in Afghanistan.


RE: Um, no
By snakeInTheGrass on 3/23/2011 2:53:21 PM , Rating: 5
I heard Libya had WMDs ready to go at 40 minutes notice.

There, justification problem solved. Better the silence of ignorance than the blatant lies, I guess. Though who knows - voters seemed to like the lies just fine. :)


RE: Um, no
By invidious on 3/23/11, Rating: -1
RE: Um, no
By StinkyWhizzleTeeth on 3/23/2011 4:29:51 PM , Rating: 5
That's not true, whoever started this myth is a liar. The second link that showed up is from Snopes. Please get used to this site because it helps eliminate a lot of FUD.


RE: Um, no
By Iaiken on 3/23/2011 6:31:59 PM , Rating: 4
Now I don't want to alarm you, but you're a both moron as well as a liar by proxy for attempting to sell this article as proof of a weapons program.

That this material was part of a weapons program is a complete and utter fabrication that both the government of Canada and Atomic Energy of Canada Limited (who approved the purchase) have categorically denied. The materials existence and it's quantities had been known to the government of Canada since 1991. How? Because everyone knew about this particular quantity of uranium...

The Uranium that was sold to Cameco was dated to 1991 at the latest and was under the supervision of UN inspectors since that time. The material was neither a secret nor was it recently discovered or recently acquired. All of this material was in sealed storage and had been documented and inventoried since 1991. This material was left over from failed research reactors that were destroyed in 1981 (by Israel) and 1991 (by the US).

This is therefore NOT the same uranium that Bush alleged Iraq had purchased in the years immediately before the war in order to resume the development of a nuclear weapons program. There is no evidence whatsoever that an actual purchase ever took place nor evidence of the facilities, equipment or the expertise required to undertake such an endeavor.

Any attempt to infer that this particular quantity of uranium was proof that Bush not a liar is logically and intellectually bankrupt.

The only purported evidence in existence is an Italian intelligence document that states Iraqi officials were attempting to purchase uranium in Niger. A document that was itself much criticized for it's chronological inaccuracies (such as being signed by people who were not in office at the indicated date).


RE: Um, no
By BruceLeet on 3/23/2011 7:02:11 PM , Rating: 5
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=aliens+do+exist

I shit you not, I googled it for you therefor it is true.


RE: Um, no
By dajeepster on 3/24/2011 3:51:28 AM , Rating: 3
that was just too funny... i don't know why you got rated down... some people have no sense of humor.


RE: Um, no
By snakeInTheGrass on 3/23/11, Rating: 0
RE: Um, no
By Nfarce on 3/23/11, Rating: 0
RE: Um, no
By Iaiken on 3/23/2011 7:04:13 PM , Rating: 3
There was a large (and still growing) body of evidence long before Iraq that the statements coming out of the White House were false and that they were cherry picking intelligence that suited their purposes.

When people went out of their way to prove it, such as Joseph Wilson did when specifically tasked to investigate Niger for possible sale of uranium to Iraq. He found nothing to indicate that this was in fact the case. It was further determined that the Italian intelligence documents that the administrations assertion was based on were of questionable authenticity and accuracy.

When Mr Wilson publicly criticized the administration for panning his and other evidence that they were mistaken, they retaliated in a tit-for-tat by outing his wife position as a covert CIA officer. During the subsequent investigation it was affirmed that senior white house staff were responsible for leaking he identity to the press but no specific blame has been laid.

When numerous indicators and several of your closest allies point to your data being false and you do nothing about it because it could damage the message you are trying to send, you are still a liar. Even the British ambassador to the US admitted privately during the months leading up to the war that they were being taken for a ride.

A questionable report about Italian report about Iraqi officials attempting to buy uranium in Niger became probable WMD program. With no actual information added, this became a definite WMD program. With no further information this magically became a definite WMD program that posed an eminent and possibly immediate threat. And congress bought it...


RE: Um, no
By Nfarce on 3/23/2011 9:27:03 PM , Rating: 2
1) There was no hard evidence that the data was false. It was hearsay and hearsay only. That still does not make it a lie no matter how you spin it.

2) Valarie Plame was not clandestine when she was outed by Novak. Wilson himself has acknowledged that.

3) WMDs in the report included more than just nuclear WMDs.

4) If those who voted for the war were taken for a ride as so many accuse, then where was their leadership and judgment?

5) Why are current leaders still backing staying in Iraq?

6) Why is Guantanamo still open?


RE: Um, no
By StinkyWhizzleTeeth on 3/24/2011 3:29:57 AM , Rating: 4
Your #1 point is a False Argument!

You've got things backwards. The onus of evidence is on those who want to go to war, not those who do NOT want to go to war. Otherwise we would be in a perpetual state of war... oh wait...


RE: Um, no
By Azethoth on 3/24/2011 4:59:38 AM , Rating: 2
Who cares about the WMD. It is such a stupid argument. The fact is Sadam actually had WMD (chemical & bio & trying to get nuclear) and actually used (chemical) in well documented attacks against his own people and the Iranians in their war. This is proven fact with actual people dead from gas attacks that you can go autopsy for chemicals.

The weird thing is not that we went in and found no WMD, the weird thing is that Sadam actually got rid of his WMD. I mean wtf? Nobody, and by that I mean nobody on the entire earth, had any idea back then that he got rid of them. Not me, not you, not the press, not the CIA, MI5, any other country than Iraq, the Pope, Chris Angel, Angelina Jolie. Not even that psychic lady on late night television knew.


RE: Um, no
By StinkyWhizzleTeeth on 3/24/2011 4:17:40 PM , Rating: 2
Again, another example of someone putting the cart before the horse. We shouldn't be going to war without solid evidence. Those who got us into this mess should've gotten throwing at of office simply because they proved themselves, at best, to be so idiotically gullible on multiple occassions.

What you're referring to is called the Power of Nightmares. Create Fear, Uncertainty, and doubt (FUD), in order to get the American people behind spending an exorbitant amount of money on so called "Defense", policing the world, pre-emptive wars, and nation building. I'm not denigrating their motivations of doing this, but it makes me question how aware they are of the subconscious temptation of immoral greed.

Anyways, check out the documentary called The Power of Nightmares. I think you can find it at Archives.org


RE: Um, no
By SPOOFE on 3/24/2011 4:23:08 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
We shouldn't be going to war without solid evidence.

The "solid evidence" is Saddam Hussein stymied the efforts of UN weapons inspectors. In 1998 this prompted Bill Clinton to launch cruise missiles into the country, to nary a voice of complaint (despite the fact that it's kinda hard to capture someone with a cruise missile). In 2003 it happened again, but since it wasn't their boy doing the fighting, liberals have been butt-hurt about it ever since.

I remember the 2003 SOTU address: Dubya gave us half a dozen solid reasons for kicking Saddam's ass, and the only one most every critic has been able to remember has been "WMD's!"


RE: Um, no
By StinkyWhizzleTeeth on 3/24/2011 5:44:37 PM , Rating: 2
That's not solid evidence. What you have there is presumption. By that same logic you would say that anyone who refuses to a police search is automatically guilty.

Presumption is a sign of mental disease, even if it is celebrated in our country. People seem to be so scared of the boogeyman that we can't deal with the realizations that we know far less than we really do. Let's seperate our assumptions and opinions from our facts. BTW, I'm not a liberal.

If you would be so kind, please give me those other half dozen reasons that President Bush brought up. What I remember him saying is that Saddam was looking to ally with terrorists, that we can't wait until we see a mushroom cloud, and that they are part of the axis of evil, and that Saddam wants to harm America. None of those are either true, possible, or examples of his past behavior.


RE: Um, no
By eonsnocrtnarrongi on 3/28/2011 1:14:52 AM , Rating: 1
Nfarce wrote a fantasy and the facts are after each lie:

1) There was no hard evidence that the data was false. It was hearsay and hearsay only. That still does not make it a lie no matter how you spin it.

Well then you are calling Cheney and the bois liars since they have admitted as much.

2) Valarie Plame was not clandestine when she was outed by Novak. Wilson himself has acknowledged that.

Another rightwing lie. Mrs. Plame was a covert op at the time she was outted. A FACT that FITZGERALD found in his investigation. That is just a FACT.
I know you FahxKoch bois hate FACTS.

3) WMDs in the report included more than just nuclear WMDs.

There were no WMD's as Cheney as admitted in the last year on the major news networks. So you know more than DICK?

4) If those who voted for the war were taken for a ride as so many accuse, then where was their leadership and judgment?

Dont know what this means.

5) Why are current leaders still backing staying in Iraq?

Because the Dems are afraid of Repubes calling them pussies and Repubes love killing anyone except the Zygote unless their daughter is pregnant from an illegal.

6) Why is Guantanamo still open?
Because the Repubes stopped Obama from closing it. Dont you read?


RE: Um, no
By phantom505 on 3/23/11, Rating: -1
RE: Um, no
By Skywalker123 on 3/23/11, Rating: 0
RE: Um, no
By AEvangel on 3/23/2011 3:13:44 PM , Rating: 5
What Obama is doing is distracting everyone from the news that Saudia Arabia invaded Bahrain to put down the civil uprising in that country.

Why did Saudia Arabia do this? Well Bahrain is a small island nation which produces little oil, but like the other major oil producing regions of Saudi Arabia, it is home to a regional Shiite majority which could ally with Iran if allowed freedom.

Why ignore Saudia Arabia acts of aggression on those similar heroic rebels and civilians that are being put down by a foreign army equipped with US military training and weapons?

Well because Saudia Arabia supports our failing dollar by allowing it to remain as the world currency on the price of oil even though it's losing value, not to mention they are the third largest holder of Treasury Bills. Also we cannot allow the people the freedom of association in the middle east specially if they associate with people we don't like, such as Iran.


RE: Um, no
By ClownPuncher on 3/23/2011 3:30:57 PM , Rating: 2
Politics, politics never changes.


RE: Um, no
By ComatoseDelirium on 3/23/2011 4:29:59 PM , Rating: 2
Quick fact check, Saudi Arabia would be in the Oil exporters group of countries. They are the 4th largest holder of treasury securities.

'Oil exporters include Ecuador, Venezuela, Indonesia, Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Algeria, Gabon, Libya, and Nigeria.'

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart...


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