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So is this a "real" position or one of those "will.i.am" positions?   (Source: Reuters)
Otellini will give Obama a helping hand on getting Americans back to work

Intel Corp.'s chief executive Paul Otellini has been tapped by U.S. President Barack Obama to be a member of the President's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness.  General Electric chief executive Jeffrey Immelt chairs the panel.  Its goal is to put Americans back to work, post recession and to promote skilled and professional jobs.

The White House says that it will name more board members in coming weeks.  President Obama, following the severe recession of 2008 and 2009, first created the board in 2009.

President Obama is currently wrapping up a West Coast trip, in which he dined with the likes of Steve Jobs (Apple), Mark Zuckerberg (Facebook), and Eric Schmidt (Google).  Today he is touring Intel's Hillsboro, Oregon facility, accompanied by Mr. Otellini.

Mr. Otellini is only Intel's fifth chief executive.  He has been with the company for over three decades, having joined in 1974.  He slowly climbed the ranks, gaining notice as the general manager who supervised the design of the first Pentium processors in 1993.  From there he became executive vice president and general manager of the Intel Architecture Group, supervising chipset and processor development.

In 2002 he was elected to the company's board of directors and became president and chief operating officer.  In 2005, he replaced Craig Barret as chief executive.

During his reign as chief executive he sold Apple on the idea of using Intel processors and oversaw the launch of the highly successful Core series of processors.  Despite these successes, he's had to make cuts, committing to the largest series of layoffs in the company's history during the downturn.

Now he's going to be looking to put Americans back to work.



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RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By sleepeeg3 on 2/18/2011 8:21:17 PM , Rating: 2
Now what do you think motivated that move? Our government currently is pushing the highest corporate taxes in the world.

Time to stop being manipulated into blaming corporations and take a look at who is looking for a scapegoat...


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By Hyperion1400 on 2/19/2011 10:48:25 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
The 'Corporate rate' chart is noted as follows "Where a progressive (as opposed to flat) rate structure applies, the top marginal rate is shown." It is showing the top rate for corporate taxes, not a mean rate.


When you get your facts from Wikipedia, scroll down...

As a percentage of GDP, the US's tax rates are actually quite low (see table 2-1):

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/69xx/doc6902/11-28-Corp...

I realize this information is a bit old, but you would be surprised at how little tax rates change despite all the of the fuss about it.

Really, only in raw numbers does the US seem to be the highest or close to the top. Once the numbers are properly processed and weighted, we wind up in the middle.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By The Raven on 2/20/2011 9:09:49 AM , Rating: 2
YashBudini made a good observation below to point out subsidies and other non-tax meddling that the gov't does.

For example, why do many corporations leave the US or at least outsource? Minimum wage. And also don't forget taxes at the state and local levels.

I don't claim to know where the US ranks when you factor these things in, but it seems like things are pretty bad when you see companies leaving. It doesn't seem as bad now as it was in recent history, but who knows how many cash incentives the gov't is giving companies to stay here these days. I guess that is fine if the taxpayers think it is worth it. But the gov't can't give taxpayers cash incentives to stay here to pay the corporations to stay here... err I guess they can, but that would be inflationary lol.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By YashBudini on 2/20/2011 12:16:16 PM , Rating: 2
It's not minimum wage alone, it's the total salary of any and all positions. The $7.50/hour US worker is replaced by a 75 cents/hour worker, yeah that's a savings, but the $75/hour engineer is also outsourced for the $75/day engineer. We're losing far more than the great minimum wage debate would allow. Everything is being designed and created overseas. So then ask yourself, "What are the overall employment rate trends for any given occupation?" Are they going up or dropping? If you're a nurse's aid cleaning poop of old Alzheimer patients it's going up, but what about everyone else? Sure there are some success stories, touted when the politics call for it, but what's the overall trend?

And if the overall trend is lower (what's the average income these days versus 10 years ago? The median?) then how will municipalities pay for their services? Seriously do people think government can contiunue to lower tax rates when salary rates start dropping as well? Perhaps the taxes will be paid by the CEO's bonuses? Nope, Obama spoke like a pub and said they can get tax cuts too.

Oh look McDonalds is hiring, well yes, because fewer people can afford the right food, they now eat to maximize their time to not be hungry, and nothing else. That's a success story?

You really have to wonder about the self serving in the US. Do they ever ask themselves, "The way things are going will my kid get a job that allows them to make ends meet?"


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By The Raven on 2/21/2011 12:03:12 PM , Rating: 2
Well though I don't know if I would say that it is minimum alone (I meant to just use it as an example). I'm sure various regulations have a lot to do with it too (e.g. OSHA regulations). But the main point is that it is expensive to employ people in the US because of our gov't mandated standards. Everything here seems fine until there is mass unemployment here at home or we hear about the horrors of cruel child exploitation somewhere or workers at Foxconn commiting suicide. Mr. and Mrs. Suburbia feel great about minimum wage when they don't see the ugliness that it is supposed to cover up being exposed somewhere else.

But to your point of higher wages for professionals... why do you think they need higher salaries? Maybe because the cost of goods is artificially inflated due to minimum wage and other regulatory restrictions. Not maybe. Definitely.

Is it worth it? That is up to debate (and so is the magnatude at which the gov't should regulate). But I am not debating that here. I'm just saying that you have to look at the entire picture when you compare costs of things such as this. And the fact is that regulations (I used minimum wage as an example) play a big part in what companies decide to do to give the consumers what they want.
And we can't cry about it when they decide to go elsewhere because we are the ones who scared them off.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By YashBudini on 2/21/2011 7:42:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But the main point is that it is expensive to employ people in the US because of our gov't mandated standards.

If you look at economics 101 capitalism works when both parties feel they've gotten a fair deal. It doesn't work when 1 party tries to screw the other guy. Obviously this happens frequently. One percent of our population is in jail. Such ripoffs take many forms. Have you ever seen the movie "A Civil Action?" It's based on scumbags who ruined people's health to make more money. Regulations exist to address such events. All of society pays for the costs of the wrong doers, like it or not. Or would you prefer to be like the victims in that movie, which is based on a true story?

quote:
Everything here seems fine until there is mass unemployment here at home or we hear about the horrors of cruel child exploitation somewhere or workers at Foxconn commiting suicide.

Well actually that's mostly true of only Americans, who seem to think that paying taxes allows them to be oblivious to government and political events, and that they will be left alone according. Obviously now people are starting to realize that it doesn't work that way. In Europe far fewer people think everything is just fine at any given time.

quote:
Mr. and Mrs. Suburbia feel great about minimum wage when they don't see the ugliness that it is supposed to cover up being exposed somewhere else.

Now why would you say that? Didn't this family get all upset about Nike and child labor? Yeah I know, for all of 15 minutes. Mostly they are not upset though is because our press chooses not to publish such stories. You need to ask them why. I'm no mind reader. You learned about Foxconn here, no mainstream media, right?

quote:
why do you think they need higher salaries?

This question has me baffled, I don't recall stating any opinion about what they should be paid one way or the other, but I wouldn't mind seeing exactly where you came up with that. I would expect and hope that supply and demand sets wages per supply, demand (yeah duh), but also responsibilities (you want a jet pilot who flies for minimum wage to fly your trip?), and cost of living in the area, etc. But if I were in fact to question salaries I sure wouldn't start with employees, I'd start with CEOs. Show me a CEO who's job and responsibilites are 10X more important than the US president. 100X. 1000X. Now even better tell me why sport figures get that kind of money.

By the way you can get far lower cost school bus drivers if you decide to get employees from certain groups; ex-cons, those labeled child molesters, I'm sure they'd work for far less money. Is that OK with most people? I think not.

If I need an operation I may choose to go with the higher paid doctor after some research, and yet shouldn't the same reasoning be used on school bus drivers? Those checking your baggage at the airport? A mistake could mean death, and yet the latter 2 are barely above minimum wage.

quote:
Maybe because the cost of goods is artificially inflated due to minimum wage and other regulatory restrictions. Not maybe. Definitely.

Well as usual in this economy equation you leave out crime. When people can't make ends meet they do bad things, these could be factored into the cost of goods. The alternative is to raise taxes on everyone to cover such costs. Economists argue many goods are not fairly priced, because prices don't include the cost to society after the item is disposed of. I'm not taking a stand on that, but is it a valid point?

I don't buy most of the business arguments you bring up. There are far too many success stories and with far less complaining to say regulations and taxes are all bad.

No person wants to pay xxx insurance, until they are on the victim side of the equation. Same goes for regulations. We can get rid of it all, if you're willing to live in the equivalent of the Wild West. Is that reasonable to most people? You can go do business in Russia, Bosnia, Albania, and from a all-government-regs-are-bad viewpoint it should be a great place to do business, and yet?

Now what you can blame the government is for not extracting the proper amount of punishment from companies like Wall St bankers, Tyco, Enron, and on and on. The government goes for the quick money, no convictions, not even an admission of guilt, but they do say look here's a record fine. Uh, the fine is 10X the prior one, and the cost of the crime is 100X or 1000X the cost of the prior one. It's clearly stating the more you steal the more you make. Perhaps that's why you have to pay so much for all your regulations?

Now in terms of chip fab, obviously companies go where pollutants don't mean anything. And if addressed the penalties are far less. Obviously if we don't care about Foxconn employees we won't care about these people, after all that would be inconvenient.

Frankly BP execs should have to consume a steady diet of gulf shrimp and wait for long term impact like everyone else, but sh!t they don't have to live there, and they'd leave if they did. And there's a number of other oil leaks that are on-going and never mentioned on the news. Why is that? The closest thing for US citizens to decent global coverage is The Economist.

The simplest and best explanation is in the book "The 7 Habits of Highly Successful People." Most people don't address interdependence, and pubs here will fight until their last breath to remain ignorant of it. After all you can't out-Faux these know-it-alls.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By The Raven on 2/22/2011 11:48:24 AM , Rating: 2
At first I thought we agreed more than disagreed but now I'm not so sure. I don't have time to reply to all of that right now but for now let me pick the low hanging fruit...
quote:
I'd start with CEOs. Show me a CEO who's job and responsibilites are 10X more important than the US president. 100X. 1000X. Now even better tell me why sport figures get that kind of money.

Because they are worth it to the people who are paying their salaries. The presidency is irrelevant because it is public service, and as a public servant he should get paid less than he would as a private citizen for doing the same amount of work. On the other hand, if we think he is overpaid then we as a democracy can adjust that. The private world is not a democracy.

If some company finds that if they pay a guy 1 billion dollars to make 3 billion then that is up to them. It is also up to then to pay a guy 1 billion to lose 3 billion.
If a company always made the right decision this wouldn't even be a question, but there are no perfect people and there are no perfect companies. So they wouldn't be looking at a sure thing when they make these decisions would they?

I will use sports figures for the second part of the fact that these people are not factualy (note the emphasis) over paid.
Owners pay the star players as much as they do because they think they will get a healthy return on their investment when they have a winning season and people start watching the games on TV, buying tix, merch, etc. And I guess they usually do (except in the case of Barry Zito lol), OR ELSE WHY WOULD THEY DO IT?

So the point is, if you think someone in the private sector is overpaid, stop buing their products, watching their games, buying their t-shirts and the salaries will start to fall. That is how it works and that is a fact nobody can argue with. As grunts (as I am) we can protest and demand a lower salary for our CEO, but then we give up our right to complain when we (along with thaousands of others) are out of a job because we gambled on the most important person on the payroll.

Nobody is forcing these companies to pay so much except for their competition. And guess who else's salaries are dictated by competition... grunts like me. Sure my CEO could skimp on salaries, but then I would be working for his competitor wouldn't I. I also would likely not be happy about my situation and put out crappy work. But they keep me happy and I do just what they want me to do as we agreed. (I work for a subsidiary of Toyota BTW) We have been through the Great Recession, Toyota recalls and scandals, and increased regulation by the gov't and we still haven't fired any noticeable amount of people and no one has had wages or salaries cut noticeably. And to top it off, there is no union in sight.

Why do they treat us so well? Because they know it is stupid to do otherwise. Are they perfect? No. And there are things I think I would change if I were CEO. But it is not my decision to pick myself as CEO so there you have it.
If they start running this place like Enron, Lehman or whoever, I would be out of here and go with someone who deals honestly with their employees. You get paid what you are worth in a truly free market and there are no bones about it.

You say these people get paid too much. How much should they be paid and how do you determine that? With a salary czar of some sort? Once you start doing homework to figure that out you will discover that their salaries are just fine.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By YashBudini on 2/22/2011 11:55:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because they are worth it to the people who are paying their salaries.


Well congratulations, you discovered why everybody is paid what they paid, including the ones in question and not in question.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By The Raven on 2/22/2011 12:21:43 PM , Rating: 2
You're the one who asked. Not me. Don't insult yourself.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By YashBudini on 2/22/2011 12:30:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But to your point of higher wages for professionals... why do you think they need higher salaries?


?

Not that I ever got an answer but....


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By The Raven on 2/24/2011 10:50:57 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
why do you think they need higher salaries? Maybe because the cost of goods is artificially inflated due to minimum wage and other regulatory restrictions. Not maybe. Definitely.

You split this statement of mine up and then started arguing with it. I think that is where you got lost on my response.
It was a direct response to this comment of yours...
quote:
The $7.50/hour US worker is replaced by a 75 cents/hour worker, yeah that's a savings, but the $75/hour engineer is also outsourced for the $75/day engineer.

I find it unbelievable that you don't see the parallel since you are the one who said it and used the same 7-5 number combo on your examples.

I hope I made myself clear that time.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By The Raven on 2/22/2011 11:51:39 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Show me a CEO who's job and responsibilities are 10X more important than the US president. 100X. 1000X.

Oh and I find this comment hilarious given the subject matter of the article. What was it about again? The CEOs of major corporations asked the prez to impart his wisdom to them, right? Oh wait... it was the other way around!


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By YashBudini on 2/22/2011 12:09:13 PM , Rating: 2
It's not about wisdom, it's about the level of responsibility.

Also - CEOs fail and they still get millions. They break laws and destroy economies and they get rewarded. Yeah things are working perfectly for CEOs, aren't they?


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By The Raven on 2/22/2011 12:24:41 PM , Rating: 2
No I agree, I was trying a little humor lol.

quote:
Also - CEOs fail and they still get millions. They break laws and destroy economies and they get rewarded. Yeah things are working perfectly for CEOs, aren't they?


I mentioned this in my post. Why are you pointing that out to me? If the companies have a problem with that, they can put certain clauses in their contracts (or lower salaries), but then guess what... they are gone for someone with a better offer.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By YashBudini on 2/22/2011 12:32:53 PM , Rating: 2
See, and this applies for all, written text leaves something to be desired as inflection is absent. I missed it, my mistake.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By The Raven on 2/24/2011 2:54:44 PM , Rating: 2
(Now I have time to respond lol...)
quote:
If you look at economics 101 capitalism works when both parties feel they've gotten a fair deal. It doesn't work when 1 party tries to screw the other guy. Obviously this happens frequently.

Yes, when companies don't like what price they would have to pay here in the US, they go elsewhere. What is the point of this comment?

And no I haven't seen that movie, but I do have an international business degree so I think I have at least a basic understanding of how this all works. Not to mention as someone who works for a living in the non-union private sector I see how wages are dictated in the semi-free market that we call America. But what does the bad business you mention in the movie have to do with our discussion? I'm not getting that.
quote:
Well actually that's mostly true of only Americans, who seem to think that paying taxes allows them to be oblivious to government and political events, and that they will be left alone according.
This is laughable (moreso to your point) since most Americans don't even know how much they pay in tax let alone whether they pay any at all.
I think those people you are referring to think that the gov't magically produces the money to save them from things such as Katrina or the Taliban. Or they just think that the rich guys will take care of everything not realizing where the rich guy is getting his money. They just demand things and assume that it will all be ok because we are a wealthy nation and forget how we got this way.
quote:
Now why would you say that? Didn't this family get all upset about Nike and child labor? Yeah I know, for all of 15 minutes. Mostly they are not upset though is because our press chooses not to publish such stories. You need to ask them why. I'm no mind reader. You learned about Foxconn here, no mainstream media, right?

Umm...there is no end to the "attrocities" that Wal-Mart has committed upon mankind according to the press. Though I am no big box fan, the way Wal-Mart and McD's are tossed around disgusts me. They have their faults like any companies but because they are big (because we as citizens made them that way) they get picked on.
quote:
Well as usual in this economy equation you leave out crime. When people can't make ends meet they do bad things, these could be factored into the cost of goods. The alternative is to raise taxes on everyone to cover such costs. Economists argue many goods are not fairly priced, because prices don't include the cost to society after the item is disposed of. I'm not taking a stand on that, but is it a valid point?
That is a valid point, but where you say I leave out crime, you leave out gov't welfare programs and charities. Who in the US can't make ends meet? Really? We have programs that you can live on until you die at the age of 90. Not to mention charities. Don't you know there are people who say they can't live on minimum. I find that hard to believe because I used to be there...comfortably (in CA of all places too). How about the illegal migrant workers who work for less than minimum? I guess you can't get by on that because they have special magical powers that keep them alive because no one could afford to live on that. Well you know what, tell them to go back to Mexico where they make less or don't have a job at all. They will be better off? No. They should be allowed to work here legally at whatever the going rate is whether or not it is above or below the artificial number that we call minimum wage.
Otherwise they will just be doing the same thing in Mexico for less or working for the drug lords because that is the only work available.

That is what I'm talking about when I say we are ok with it until it is happening in our backyard.

But I guess I would like to know if you understand this:
If it takes $2/hr to get a guy to grind flour and he pays $1 to buy that flour, how much would the flour cost if we made his boss pay him $3/hr?
Assuming that he is the only input to production of said flour, the flour would now cost $1.33 (or a 33% price increase).

Is the grinder better off now that the gov't mandated the wage increase? No. But now the dollar is worth less that it was before and the goods are temporarily (reletively) more expensive for those who do not get the 'raise' (like the unemployed).

But all the workers on minimum feel good about it and decide to continuously vote for the democrats who don't understand economics and want to continuously raise the MW or the republicans who don't want people 'taking their jobs'. All the while they go to Wal-Mart and complain about how expensive everything it while simultaneously complain about how all of this stuff is made in China/Mexico/Thailand because they have lower labor costs.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By Laereom on 2/19/2011 6:07:44 PM , Rating: 1
Bullshit. Western Europe, most of Asia, most of Africa, and most of Latin America have higher corporate income taxes than we do.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By YashBudini on 2/19/2011 10:01:07 PM , Rating: 2
It doesn't say sleep in his name for nothing.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By YashBudini on 2/19/11, Rating: -1
RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By Nfarce on 2/21/2011 1:24:42 PM , Rating: 2
It always amuses me listening to you petulant left wing dullards call republicans sheeples. You Nanny Statist liberals are the ones who want to keep everyone dependent on government from cradle to grave and hate it when a company makes a freaking PROFIT .

And by the way, you do realize that US corporations and companies get tax breaks for offering benefits to their employees, right? Benefits like continuing education, child care assistance, maternity leave, and other things. There is no such thing as a free lunch, liberals.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By YashBudini on 2/22/2011 12:16:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You Nanny Statist liberals


Oh please with the Faux-doms. First off I haven't voted either party in decades. Both parties have sheeple, else why would the 2 party merry-go-round continue?

quote:
hate it when a company makes a freaking PROFIT

There you go again, hailing your political alliance above all else.

People who put political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither? patriots nor human beings.

Now please return to your cult follower status.


RE: 22nm fab in Israel
By YashBudini on 2/22/2011 5:42:27 PM , Rating: 2
Hey Nfarce,

It appears your brethren have screwed up while making profits. I'm sure you'll feel lots of pity for the company, and none for the victims.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41694606/

By definition a misanthrope.


"A politician stumbles over himself... Then they pick it out. They edit it. He runs the clip, and then he makes a funny face, and the whole audience has a Pavlovian response." -- Joe Scarborough on John Stewart over Jim Cramer














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