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Joe Biden was plugging upcoming EV initiatives on the road at an Indiana battery maker.  (Source: Darron Cummings Associated Press)
Biden hopes to add 300,000 more $7,500 credits

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, speaking to workers at a battery assembly plant in Greenfield, Indiana, plugged U.S. Sen. Carl Levin's (D-Michigan) plan to expand tax credits for EV buyers and make them immediate.

Under the new proposal the cap on the number of credits per electric vehicle manufacturer would be bumped from 200,000 to 500,000.  Additionally, people would receive the credit as a direct discount, rather than having to wait to get the money back when they filed their yearly tax return.

The Vice President describes, "Just like the Cash for Clunkers program. You won't have to wait."

The measure is backed by the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers -- an alliance between Detroit's Big Three, Toyota Motor Corp. and eight others.  In a comment to The Detroit News, they state, "[The government] can play a critical role in developing the electric infrastructure, supporting R&D for advanced batteries and providing consumer incentives."

Along with those tax incentives to buyers, Vice President Biden was also promoting the Obama administration's budget, which will be submitted to Congress next week.  That budget contains $8B USD for investing in advanced energy technology, including electric vehicles.  Over the last couple years the Vice President has been a big proponent of investment in battery systems and electrified vehicles.

Of that, $590M USD will be applied directly to vehicle research.  That includes $200M USD to help up to 30 communities expand their electric vehicle infrastructure, by adding support for chargers, etc.

Biden's visit follows one by President Obama to green small businesses in Wisconsin, plugging alternative energy research.

The Obama administration's budget will like meet with opposition at the Republican-controlled house, but the Vice President was optimistic, remarking, "We're going to reshape what Americans drive. In turn we're going to reshape America itself." 


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just what we need
By dgingeri on 1/27/2011 6:15:12 PM , Rating: 5
yeah, just what we need, another $2.2 billion wasted money by the federal government.

Electric cars won't work. They didn't work back in the early 1900's and they won't work now. (Bet you didn't know once year in the 1900's, I think it was 1906, electric cars outsold all other types of cars combined.) They don't have the capacity or the range needed to be a practical car.

When Top Gear tested out the Tesla roadster, it broke down twice and ran out of juice before they could complete a lap. Tesla brought another one over, and the Stig started a lap, but it broke down again. So it never got fully tested or had a time trial.

Fuel cell and hybrid technology are far, far better. Yet, Obama axed all the special programs for them. This extra bunch of spending is not even close to be worthwhile.




RE: just what we need
By HrilL on 1/27/2011 6:26:34 PM , Rating: 5
This is to be expected from our leaders that want to support the Chinese economy more than ours.

How about the government spots spending money they don't have already! NO more new spending period. Just stop already or cut programs we don't need if they think we should spend money on something else. But until we're out of debt we should just stop spending period. If its not critical then the program should be cut. All we need is Education, Social security, and Defense Anything else is just a waste of money. Giving poor people money and pay their health bills doesn't solve any problems it creates them.

Also why should my tax dollars go to buying someone else a car? If they want a car then they should pay for it like I am. If you can't afford the car you want then you need to get one you can afford.

/rant


RE: just what we need
By PresidentThomasJefferson on 1/27/2011 9:58:54 PM , Rating: 2
Here's the economics data you asked about earlier by economist/bank CEO multimillionaire entrepeneur Warren Mosler - -and read the PDF short economics paper by bank CEO/economist Warren Mosler "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds of Economic Policy" with empirical evidence for tax cuts as well as gov spending(without tax increases nor borrowing)
htttp://moslerforsenate.com/wp-content/uploads/20 10/06/7DIF.pdf

...Here's a quick primer on Modern Monetary economics(must read!)
http://moslereconomics.com/2010/10/06/comments-on-...

Good daily analysis of finacial/economics data great for investing:

1) http://moslereconomics.com/ (Warren Mosler, bank CEO/economist)

2) http://www.rodgermitchell.com/ -economist/MBA -also his daily analysis w/ empirical evidence/data at http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/
-and data showing how inflation is caused by supply shocks in energy/oil (like OPEC's oil embargo & 400% rise in oil prices in the 1970s) at http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/mo...

===

1a) http://moslereconomics.com/2009/12/10/7-deadly-inn... (download the "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds of Economic Policy" as it should be mandatory reading for any economics/MBA class)

-MUST READ

1b) he's also running for Senate at http://MoslerforSenate.com/ & can be one of the few knowledgeable economists/businessman that can do good in the senate

2a) http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=10547 --more data on country comparisons on conservative fiscal austerity is wrong

2b) http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=10920#mor... -Bill Mitchell explains why Wall St Journal & Alessina/Mankiw are wrong using flawed data from 3rd world countries who don't have their own non-convertible currencies(thus totally unlike the US,Japan,Singapore system
(Japan is at about 200%+ deficit debt & still 0% interest rates, 0% inflation, & ~4% unemployment & about 3% GDP for the past 10 yrs, Singapore is 117%+ deficit debt & still 0% interest rates, 3% unemployment, & 4% GDP vs. the US at 80%+ deficit debt, 0% to 3% interest rates,9.7% unemployment, 1% to 2% GDP)

See More
http://moslerforsenate.com/wp-content/uploads/2010...


RE: just what we need
By PresidentThomasJefferson on 1/27/11, Rating: 0
RE: just what we need
By Kurz on 1/28/2011 10:25:37 AM , Rating: 2
False inflation is a TAX!!!


RE: just what we need
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 1/28/2011 7:18:31 AM , Rating: 2
I thought we weren't allowed to post advertisements on DT?


RE: just what we need
By bobny1 on 1/29/2011 10:37:31 AM , Rating: 2
Washington's plan is to fully capitalize China, bankrupt their government and take over the country. That will guive them an additional 1+ billion suckers to tax and bury in credit card debt...LOL


RE: just what we need
By KorruptioN on 1/27/2011 8:07:02 PM , Rating: 1
I wasn't aware that a test on Top Gear (don't get me wrong, it's easily the best automotive program around) was representative of the market segment as a whole...


RE: just what we need
By sleepeeg3 on 1/27/2011 9:13:50 PM , Rating: 5
It's $10,250,000,000.00 they are proposing on wasting. Biden can stuff it! I am tired of subsidizing overpaid union employees and inefficient technologies. What makes even less sense is Toyota's support of this - their hybrids no longer qualify for these subsidies, even though the Prius is by far a better option than the Volt: http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/volt/2011/comp...

Of course Biden and Obama are extending these handouts, because unions helped them win their elected positions. Unions helped buy California's governor election, which Brown is paying back by slashing all non-union state employees wages. Their corrupt entanglement with politics is one of the reasons behind our crushing debt.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/10/br...

What is amusing is that immediately after Obama's SOTU address pledging fiscal responsibility, the CBO announces another record $1.5 trillion deficit they are adding to our public debt. That is just one year! Keep on digging, liberals.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/26/cb...


RE: just what we need
By TSS on 1/28/2011 8:52:52 AM , Rating: 2
Afther that last link you really should post http://usdebtclock.org/ as well and point out that total government spending (as there's more government then just obama) is already a whopping $6.7 trillion, and still going up.

To give this any meaningfull comparison, that's about $1,000,000,000,000 MORE then the entire GDP of China.

And that $1,5 trillion deficit...well... total government spending is $6,7 trillion while total government revenue is $4.46 trillion, so the TOTAL government deficit is actually $2.24 trillion. That's already more then the federal revenue is pulling in!

And yes, the GDP might be $14.5 trillion. Now. I watched it drop $2.5 trillion in 3 months during the financial crisis which marked the first time your debt to GDP was over 100% (i looked right after obama's stimulus came into effect to see what kind of effect it had).

At $14 trillion debt, it wont be long before you hit and stay above that 100%. And unlike GDP, there's no way in hell that'll drop $2.5 trillion in 3 months. At this point it's more likely it accumelates another $2.5 trillion in 3 months.

Oh wait did i say $14 trillion? that's just national debt. Debt guarranteed by Tax payers. Who also have other debts. So the total debt of the USA is $55,6 trillion, or, nearing 400% of GDP.

Oh and really, the time of speaking with your vote is over. Go play this game: http://www.addictinggames.com/oiligarchy.html

Never mind the entire game, except the way how you win. You invest heavily in the democrats, you make them win, make all sorts of unpopular decisions, which will make people swing republican, so you invest in them before the next elections so they do what you want as well. At the end of the game the vote will swing 100% to the other side, while your building more and more plants that convert people into oil, and there's not a protestor in sight. That's exactly what's happening today, only instead of making people into oil people are made into slaves.

I really wonder when this whole facade ends so we can start making stuff better again - no matter how hard it is. For no matter how imposing the above numbers are, wether you hold one or one trillion dollars in your hand, their both worth about a unicorn. This is one matrix i'd really like to unplug from.


RE: just what we need
By Nutzo on 1/28/2011 11:15:39 AM , Rating: 2
Brown was bought and paid for by the unions here in California, so he will do everything he can to protect them.
Every proposal Brown has made has been designed to either protect the unions or minimize any damage to them.

The left no longer has enough tax dollars to fund all their constituents, so the first ones that will be thrown under the bus are the group that can’t afford the large campaign contributions, i.e. the poor, school kids, etc. Unions have the most money, so they will be the last to be affected.


RE: just what we need
By Ammohunt on 1/28/2011 2:35:57 PM , Rating: 2
Californians are slowly realizing that there are 49 other states they could live in where the cost of living is way less.


RE: just what we need
By rcc on 1/28/2011 5:45:09 PM , Rating: 2
True, but the weather sucks in most of them. : )


RE: just what we need
By Breathless on 1/28/2011 4:35:30 PM , Rating: 2
and yet the interesting thing is that as soon as the next republican gets in office, they will point the finger and say "see what these republicans did!"


RE: just what we need
By Noya on 1/27/11, Rating: 0
RE: just what we need
By dgingeri on 1/28/2011 8:28:26 AM , Rating: 2
well, your opinion of the show notwithstanding, I wasn't referring to the methods of their tests. I was commenting on how a car they were supposed to test on a wildly popular tv show ended up constantly breaking down. Even the replacement car broke down. Both times with battery problems. In the case of the Tesla roadster, there are several thousand individual batteries in the battery pack, and one dying creates a cascade across the whole pack. The Nissan Leaf has less than 1/4 of the number of batteries, but that's still a lot of batteries and a lot of points of failure.

While Nissan says you'll only have to change the $6000 battery pack every 5 years, the history of electric cars, and lithium ion batteries, says differently.


RE: just what we need
By Flunk on 1/28/2011 8:56:27 AM , Rating: 2
"Clarkson is an ogreish buffoon"

Why do you think people watch the show?


RE: just what we need
By Targon on 1/28/2011 7:47:00 AM , Rating: 4
Electric cars will work in cities where you can have millions of people who live within a 20 mile radius. For that sort of situation, a 100 mile range on one charge is perfectly acceptable for daily use.

The real issue is that the power grid itself also needs to be upgraded to handle the demand of plugin electric, and right now, the big cities can have problems during very hot months where everyone is running their air conditioners 24 hours a day.


RE: just what we need
By Nutzo on 1/28/2011 11:04:01 AM , Rating: 4
People say we just need better batteries and electric cars will be viable.

The real problem is that the electrical grid would never be able to handle a large number of plug-in cars.

Even if there was a break through in batteries that would give you a 500 mile range per charge, you would NEVER be able to charge the car overnight. The typical house electrical service cannot deliver that much power.

The Nissan Leaf (100 mile range) needs 7 hours to charge on a 40 amp, 240 volt charging station. That's about the same power required by a central air conditioning unit (don’t try charging you car, running your air and several appliances all at the same time).

Now multiply this by 5 for a car with a 500 mile range, 35 hours to charge?
Want to drop that down to 12 hours? You would need a 240 volt, 120 amp circuit, which is a problem since most homes only have a 100 amp (or less) service for the entire house.

Of course what happens when you have 2 cars to charge? Or your 2 teenagers also have electric cars?


RE: just what we need
By JediJeb on 1/28/2011 3:09:09 PM , Rating: 2
This is correct, the average consumer only thinks in volts and maybe watts when it comes to electricity and electronics. Amps is the key when talking about electric vehicles and charging them. Amps is also where the danger lies in electricity.


RE: just what we need
By Flunk on 1/28/2011 8:55:13 AM , Rating: 3
Just because something didn't work 100 years ago doesn't mean it won't work now, we've had 100 years to improve the technology. Your anecdote about the Tesla roadster only proves that Tesla roadsters aren't reliable which doesn't help prove your point at all.

I don't agree with government subsidies for unprofitable businesses (corn ethanol, electric cars, etc.), but don't try to justify your opinion with flawed logic.


RE: just what we need
By Hiawa23 on 1/28/2011 9:06:31 AM , Rating: 2
I could be wrong, but this seems like a waste. Those Electric vehicles for one are way too expensive for the masses, why is Biden even pushing? Most of us own gas powered vehicles, never going to own an electric vehicle, & in these bad economic times where alot of middle class families are struggling just to get by month after month, these cars are off the table. Find ways to get fuel prices down, I would rather they spend tax payer dollars on that,as that would give us all relief on fuel, utility & store/food prices.


RE: just what we need
By Nutzo on 1/28/2011 11:07:33 AM , Rating: 2
Instead they are putting more restictions on domestic oil drilling, and want to eliminate the tax breaks that encorage new oil exploration.

Expect $4.00+ gas prices soon. Remember, gas prices where $2.00 when Obummer took office.


RE: just what we need
By topkill on 1/31/2011 12:07:16 AM , Rating: 2
There you go genius. We have less than 5% of the worlds oil reserves, even when you include ANWAR and offshore drilling sites on the US coastline, and you think that is going to solve our problems? We use 20% of the worlds oil production. Is that higher math hard for you?

Yeah, let's give Exxon more money because the $456BILLION in revenue they had last year and the $45BILLION in profit...along with their ZERO $$ in taxes last year weren't enough. Give them some more money and everything will be so much better.

Were the $4 gas prices in 2008 Obama's fault too?

You have the intelligence of a baboon. You need to STFU and stop embarrassing your parents. What species were they anyway? Maybe a lemur and sloth? Which one was the lemur?


RE: just what we need
By tfk11 on 1/30/2011 5:13:34 PM , Rating: 2
Is this a tech site? Political BS aside electric cars satisfy the range requirements of a lot of people. Mechanically an electric car is vastly less complex that a car build around a gasoline engine so all you "won't work" talk is nonsense.

quote:
Fuel cell and hybrid technology are far, far better./quote>

How so? You'd have to be retarded to buy a fuel cell car anytime within the next what... 10 years. And hybrids bring all the complexity and expense to an otherwise clean and simple electric.


RE: just what we need
By topkill on 1/30/11, Rating: 0
"You can bet that Sony built a long-term business plan about being successful in Japan and that business plan is crumbling." -- Peter Moore, 24 hours before his Microsoft resignation














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