Print 63 comment(s) - last by Smilin.. on Nov 10 at 2:21 PM

We're pretty sure Marke Wahlberg is about to kick this kid's ass at a Kinect game.  (Source: Microsoft)

Kinect's Motion Control scheme is innovative, but it needs a lot of space to work with.  (Source: Engadget)

The reviewers virtually all agreed that Dance Central was the best title for the new device.  (Source: Microsoft)
New Xbox 360 accessory retails for $149 separately or as part of a new $299 bundle

Microsoft's long-awaited motion sensing accessory for the Xbox 360, Kinect, is finally here.  Ex-Microsoft employee Robbie Bach, who helped design the device, previously stated that Kinect (formerly Project Natal) represents a "mid-life" kicker for the console.  It also represents a not-so-subtle admission that Nintendo's Wii motion controls stole the show when it came to the latest round of console wars.

While clearly an attempt to steal the Wii's thunder, Kinect's closest competitor is the recently launched Sony Playstation 3 Move.  Kinect costs $149 USD as a standalone device -- the same price as a Move bundle and extra controller.  You can also get a Kinect as part of a new $299 4GB Xbox 360 bundle (Sony's Move bundle, with two controllers is $460 USD).

Unlike the Move or Wii Microsoft's controller has no buttons.  It relies on a 640x480 central VGA RGB camera and two adjacent cameras to "see" you and track your movements.  Lighting is important -- Microsoft recommends dimmer lighting.  The system also has four microphones to properly pick up whatever grunts or groans you happen to make.

In order to ...err connect Kinect, so to speak, you can conveniently plug the device into the new Kinect port on the revised Xbox 360 hardware which provides it with power and a connection to the console.  On older consoles you must plug-in an AC adapter for power and a USB connector to attach the console to the device.

Wii has Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort, Playstation 3 has Sports Champions, and the Xbox 360 now has Kinect Sports. (Note a trend?)

According to early reviews the games that work best with Kinect are ones that involve full body motion, and the ones that are least successful are ones that focus on specific movements -- such as Kinect Sports.  
Engadget complains of numerous control issues with Kinect Sports and Kinectimals -- an obvious take on Nintendo's Nintendogs virtual pets.

Writes the site:

(Kinectimals) Something of a pet simulator with a much heavier focus on minigames, its utterly cute art style and character design can't mask the aggravation of trying to throw a virtual toy pig into totem polls and having the game non-intuitively launch the projectile out of your hands too early or too late.
(Kinect Sports) If Kinect Adventures is the equivalent of Wii Sports Resort, Kinect Sports is just plain Wii Sports -- and we don't say that in a good way. Games like bowling felt inaccurate in the same way Kinectimals had an "underhanded throw" issue, and table tennis has a huge amount of leeway in how you swing -- on numerous occasions, a forehand in real life would turn into a backhand in order to make the on-screen shot.

Gizmodo similarly states:

Having only 1 title out of 17 launch games truly do something compelling and new isn't a very good launch, especially for people who don't like dance games. Right now, the answer to the fundamental question of "are you having fun with Kinect" is, unfortunately, "not really." 

Both sites agree that Dance Central (by the makers of Rock Band) and Your Shape: Fitness Evolved (by Ubisoft) -- both of which focus on full-body movements -- were fairly successful, though.  


(Dance Central) A crowd favorite. The Rock Band gurus at Harmonix have made a rhythm game that's, well, Rock Band for choreographed dance. It's the kind of thing that really highlights what Kinect can do -- track your movement, actually teach you dance, and provide all the embarrassment you ever asked for. We had a lot of fun with this one, despite it continually punishing us for misaligned arm movements and the occasional confusion as to which foot we step out with first. 
(Your Shape) Ubisoft's exercise game is the other great example of Kinect's potential. The menu system feels fast (despite using the hovering technique), your on-screen avatar is eerily accurate (some amalgamation of your infrared position and your monochrome visage -- if you're wearing a collard shirt, it'll show the buttons), and the skeletal mapping is added to the equation as another check to how accurately you're maintaining proper Tai Chi positions -- yes, it'll deduct points for not bending your knees as low as the virtual instructor demands.

And Gizmodo opines:

If motion games until now were like boxing, Kinect is like kickboxing. You can use your freaking legs!! Your Shape: Fitness Evolved is like Wii Fit if Wii Fit
I really, really love Dance Central as the epitome of the platform. Learning to dance is embarrassing enough, and dance classes reveal your lack of rhythm to 15-30 people at a time. But with this? Nobody knows except you and your living room. It might be somewhat niche in that it appeals to people who enjoy dancing games, or music games, or rhythm games, but it also shows what developers can do when they take full advantage of the technology that Kinect gives them. Think of what else you can learn in the privacy of your underwear.
actually knew if you were keeping your back straight or arms held out, instead of cheating by sitting on the couch.

Most of the other launch titles sound more like stinkers than winners, based on the early reviews.  Kinect Adventures, the title that comes bundled with the device drew mixed reviews.

One other common complaint is that the device needs a lot of space -- which may make it inapplicable to city folk living in cramped residences in places like New York City or Los Angeles.

Ars Technica writes:

There is also the issue of space: you need a lot of it to play multiplayer games, or to be comfortable playing single-player games. Take a peek at that sample living room image again—if your room doesn't look like a wide open gymnasium with a ton of clearance, you're going to have problems. The Move doesn't have these limitations, and most games will work just as well if you're sitting on your couch or standing in front of your screen. The Move will work in nearly any environment, where the Kinect helpfully suggests you move your couch out of the way and may chide you for having a playing space that's too small. There are going to be many potential customers who simply don't have the space near their systems to play Kinect games. That seems terribly limiting for a product that Microsoft hopes will have wide appeal.

The poor folks at Gizmodo apparently struggled with these woes as well, battling to get the device to properly respond in their cramped New York City apartment.

All three reviews took some issue with the beefy 60 MB footprint of Kinect, which cuts the available memory for game titles from 512 MB to 452 MB.

All three sites praised the inclusion of voice controls -- including pause/play/rewind/etc. with ESPN,, and Zune.  They say that while the voice controls haven't been implemented across the board, but are welcome when found.  They also say that the video chat is pretty slick and well implemented.

The best way to describe the reviews collectively as lukewarm.  They seemed to like the device, but weren't quite as enthusiastic as with the Nintendo Wii or, to a lesser extent, the Playstation Move.

Microsoft is certainly dreaming big, though -- it's predicting that it will sell 5 million Kinect units during the Q4 2010.  While that may be possible given thee bundling with the Xbox 360 console, it remains to be seen whether the device is met with as much enthusiasm as the Wii's motion controller.

The company also faces questions about its decision to take $500M USD and use it on an advertising campaign, when many point out that total would be enough to simply 
give away 3.3 million Kinect units.

Going buttonless was a gamble for Microsoft and it may yet pay off.  But it's a very unproven concept even compared to the Wii.  And the biggest problem (aside from the relative lack of strong launch titles) for Microsoft may be space.  If Microsoft wants to unload loads of the devices, that may be problematic given that many apartment dwellers are automatically overlooked due to lack of sufficient space.  As Zoolander would say "How can we expect people to love Kinect... if they can't even fit it inside their building?"

Comments     Threshold

This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

By Spivonious on 11/4/2010 11:44:23 AM , Rating: 5
Launch games are always just a demonstration of what you can do with a device. Similarly to the Wii, I think we'll see the real applications of Kinect technology by mid next year. The technology in this thing is pretty incredible.

RE: Meh
By Ristogod on 11/4/10, Rating: -1
RE: Meh
By superPC on 11/4/2010 12:26:18 PM , Rating: 2
mundane? 3D motion tracking had never been done before in a consumer product EVER. wii control system has been done numerous times before the wii itself (,2845,1128548... as just one of the example) years before the wii was launched.

RE: Meh
By CZroe on 11/4/2010 7:33:32 PM , Rating: 2
Nintendo themselves had examples before the Wii was launched (Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble, Warioware Twisted, Yoshi Topsy Turvy, etc). So what? "First" means nothing. They cooked things until they were ready. For example, Chibi Robo on the Gamecube was supposed to have an IR pointer remote accessory. Instead, they added a couple accelerometers, a speaker, storage, an expansion port, made it wireless, and gave it the treatment it deserved as a new console controller instead of a accessory for a subset of customers of a largely unsuccessful console.

For the longest time, Datel's CodeJunkies website wrongly claimed that the GBA had a built-in motion sensor just because everyone expected it after the GBC game in the '90s. There were tilt & motion controllers for the NES. I Myself owned the Microsoft Sidewinder Freestyle Pro. To act like the existence of such things detract from the significance of the Wii's bold and risky move in 2006 is silly.

RE: Meh
By blueboy09 on 11/7/2010 9:18:17 AM , Rating: 1
Actually, a company in Isreal showed off some very crude renderings of motion controls back in the day when the PS2 was still in its infancy, so yea, the tech has been out there, but the real question is: Is it still worth it? IMO, I like the old-fashioned controller that right in your hands as we speak. Nothing will ever compare to mashing and pounding of a controller that is in the palm of your hand!!

RE: Meh
By Smilin on 11/8/2010 2:06:46 PM , Rating: 2
Mmm, dunno. Playing Kinect table tennis and having the opponent make a mistake and pop a high lob at you is pretty fun. When I deliver that full body WWE style slamming return It reminds me of backhanding my opponents mama. (Where's my money ho? whhahaack!).

RE: Meh
By Digimonkey on 11/4/2010 12:03:31 PM , Rating: 2
It really depends how imaginative 3rd party game developers can be. A lot of them already struggle to make unique/fun games for the Wii, which is a lot closer to a normal controller than the Kinect.

RE: Meh
By superPC on 11/4/2010 12:36:13 PM , Rating: 3
i think you got it backwards. with wii or move developers are limited by what it can do. with kinect there are no such limitation. it can be as real as live (like the game dance central has shown us). imagine being able to kick and jump while slashing a lightsaber in a star wars game. isn't that something?

RE: Meh
By Akrovah on 11/4/2010 1:26:39 PM , Rating: 3
Yes but, how would you tell such a game which direction you wanted to move? Or even that you wanted to move at all? Run in place? Not for very long. And turning? How? Turn sideways so you are no longer facing the screen?

While the underlying 3d full body tracking of Kinect is awsome from a technical standpoint, I see it being fairly limited in the types of games it could pull off. Mostly casual games like those already in the launch line up or at best on rails action games. Free exploration would be difficult at best to implement with such an interface.

RE: Meh
By superPC on 11/4/2010 1:57:25 PM , Rating: 2
i think we're all still limited by our imagination on this. there are a lot of gesture that can be use to control character direction and movement with kinect. we just have to find a gesture that works. once that's done, it would be surprising how natural it works. it can be done.

RE: Meh
By StevoLincolnite on 11/5/2010 2:19:35 AM , Rating: 2
there are a lot of gesture that can be use to control character direction and movement with kinect.

Some games I consider perfect for Kinect would be Dungeon Keeper or Black and White, your hand is the hand that influences the game world, I could see such games working incredibly well with Kinect.

RE: Meh
By LordanSS on 11/4/2010 6:49:20 PM , Rating: 3
Yes but, how would you tell such a game which direction you wanted to move? Or even that you wanted to move at all? Run in place? Not for very long. And turning? How? Turn sideways so you are no longer facing the screen?


RE: Meh
By Akrovah on 11/4/2010 7:16:15 PM , Rating: 2
Haha. Classic.

RE: Meh
By Da W on 11/4/2010 5:30:56 PM , Rating: 2
How do you move around the level then?

RE: Meh
By Smilin on 11/4/2010 5:36:00 PM , Rating: 2
Step forward in the playspace to initiate movement, return to center to stop. Same way you move your Boxer around to control your punching distance.

RE: Meh
By sprockkets on 11/4/2010 7:12:29 PM , Rating: 1
so how do you turn left or right without straining yourself to keep looking at the screen?

It isn't a lack of imagination that prevents this from working. For that matter, if they haven't figured out how to do it in the 2 years it was introduced, why would I expect it to happen now?

This is a unfinished product, rough in all the edges. If Microsoft wanted this to succeed, it needed to be finished upon release.

RE: Meh
By Akrovah on 11/4/2010 7:17:56 PM , Rating: 2
Well I think they got rushed by Sony's much easier to implement system. With the release of Move MS became the only console maker to not have motion control.

RE: Meh
By superPC on 11/5/2010 3:01:42 AM , Rating: 2
kinect track your whole body. for movement maybe a game can use gestures such as leaning forward, backwards, left or right to move forward, backwards, left or right. to turn maybe turned your torso or your shoulder (while still looking at the screen, it's easy enough to do and not in anyway straining) at the direction you want to turn. it might take a while to find the right gesture that work but it's not impossible.

RE: Meh
By Da W on 11/5/2010 9:01:28 AM , Rating: 1
Kinnect is a wonderful piece of technology produced at a cheap price. I'm sure it will have many applications down the road, even for the PC.

But a good gaming device, it is not. You need at least a joystick in your hand for 90% of games types. It leaves dancing, fighting, may be a hybrid dancing/rock band game and that kind of stuff, but forget starwars games slashing your lighsaber on kinnect. Go get the original force unleashed on the Wii for that.

RE: Meh
By Smilin on 11/5/2010 2:36:14 PM , Rating: 5
Why do you keep thinking this thing is a keyboard and mouse intended for FPS games?

I mean really how do you dogfight effectively without a joystick? You don't. Does that mean there is something wrong with your gamepad/mouse? Does it mean the gamepad/mouse is a defective unfinished product?

You can't just come up with the stupidest possible use for the thing then blame it when it doesn't do that. You don't like Kinect (even though you've never played one)..we get it.

But...If you think Kinect won't succeed then you're a fool. Plain and simple. Gartner was predecting some 3million units in the first quarter. It's looking more like 5million units before christmas. That's 5million units plus whatever percentage are also buying a console plus 2-4 games each.

RE: Meh
By JKflipflop98 on 11/7/2010 7:55:40 AM , Rating: 4
"I can't think of it, so it's impossible!"

You can stick out two fingers on your left hand and point in the direction you want to go.

You can use the ol' hokey pokey approach and make it so the farther you put your right foot in, the faster you walk, you take your right foot all the way out and go backwards.

You can *gasp* use a controller at the same time!

You can use exaggerated head tracking (just like a TrackIR system) for looking and aiming.

You can "grab" the ground and pull yourself all over the map in games like B&W or StarCraft.

There's a million different ways to skin a cat. Just because you have the creativity of a brick doesn't mean that's the way things are.

RE: Meh
By lolmuly on 11/4/2010 12:24:03 PM , Rating: 2
How is the technology in this any better than that for the eye toy on ps2? It doesn't sound as if it is any more accurate.

Furthermore why would anybody expect this not to flop just as badly?

It sounds to me like the only reason Microsoft has released this joke of a product is to follow the same development path that sony did by eventually adding hand held motion controllers to their setup, and using the camera to improve the accuracy of on screen control.

Add some hand held motion controllers, add a set of 3D LCD glasses for the display, add a an emotiv epoch, and maybe integrate the whole system into one headset... Then we'll talk business.

RE: Meh
By superPC on 11/4/2010 12:31:57 PM , Rating: 2
there's a reason DDR doesn't use eyetoy (eyetoy was launcehd in 2003 and there are lots of DDR games after it comes out ).

obviously kinect can do so much more than eyetoy otherwise eyetoy would've been use in more motion control titles.

RE: Meh
By Spivonious on 11/4/2010 12:45:37 PM , Rating: 3
Eyetoy did simple 2D motion capture and that was it.

Kinect does 3D motion capture, facial recognition, and voice recognition. It can tell if you're moving your arm towards the screen or away from it. It can tell that the dog walking in front of you is not you.

Extremely neat technology, and I can't wait to see what developers do with it.

RE: Meh
By Mitch101 on 11/4/2010 2:43:45 PM , Rating: 2
Thats a Great Explanation

As the owner of an EyeToy it would respond to any movement or changes in the background. If I was in the background of the game and moved my chair or changed something the eye toy would believe that change in background was part of the person and would effect the game. If it wasn't brightly lit in the room the eyetoy would have problems with detection. Still it was a lot of fun just had its quirks.

Kinetic is the second generation of something like EyeToy it has the ability to determine you from the environment and you from someone else and since it uses infrared it can do much better in lower light conditions. It does distance as well something the eye toy could not do so if you kick or punch forward toward the screen it knows.

Eyetoy would only work for side to side movement and its hard to fight when you head is toward the TV and your body must punch kick side to side. Limited but again very fun.

Not all games translate well for this stuff so I expect some games will fail miserably like the eye toy had super monkey ball in a mini game and it was horrible.

Right controller for the right game that's all.

RE: Meh
By Smilin on 11/4/2010 5:44:16 PM , Rating: 3
If you got to see a beta device there was a NUIview utility that would really give you a sense of how Kinect "sees".

It absolutely picks people out from the room. It's designed to recognize the human shape and it can show a webcam view of just you in the room with everything else clipped out.

It can then take the webcam view and map it like a texture over the polygons of your 3d body.

This allows a wierd thing (in nuiview) where you could view an image of yourself standing in the room from say overhead. It was as if there was a camera mounted on your ceiling (or floor or side wall) when in fact the camera was straight ahead.

I've SEEN what Kinect does and eyetoy is just a cute little trinket. Sorry fanboys. Dems the facts.

Right controller for the right game that's all.

Well said. Just because a square peg doesn't fit in a round hole doesn't mean there is something wrong with the peg. It won't be an awesome controller for a 3d shooter. (mind you I think move, wii 'chuks, traditional console controller all suck for 3d shooters)

RE: Meh
By lolmuly on 11/4/2010 7:15:20 PM , Rating: 2
agreed, wii chucks do suck, and there's nothing all that special about the eye toy. How exactly is this thing going to sell though? sure there's more to the camera, but what can they do with the camera alone that's all that much better? I don't see where this scenario fits into gaming.....

it will have serious applications if they add in hand held controllers like they did with the playstation (and it will probably be more accurate) but until then, why even bother selling the camera by itself?

as i mentioned above, I'm really not a fan of any of this stuff until they start blending it all together to make a true first person gaming system.

RE: Meh
By Aloonatic on 11/5/2010 4:02:53 AM , Rating: 2
I've SEEN what Kinect does and eyetoy is just a cute little trinket. Sorry fanboys. Dems the facts.
Amazingly, there has been very little fanboy activity here, apart from your "cute little trinket" jab that is.

Anyways, anyone know how much processing power the Kinect uses/requires? Is it all done on the xBox or is anything done on the Kinect camera unit?

It looks to have great potential, does anyone know if the same unit will be used on the next xBox, which can't be all that far away?

I have a Wii and PS3, and could probably make the space for Kinect. As it stands, I'd rather invest in a new xBox with Kinect than buy PS3 move controllers and games that will probably just be HD versions of what I've already grown tired of on the Wii, just without Mario or Zelda. This will be a much easier decision to make if the Kinect unit will be used in the next gen xBox.

RE: Meh
By someguy123 on 11/7/2010 2:22:13 AM , Rating: 2
Everything is done in camera. There may be some overhead for reading the data but otherwise I don't believe the 360 is doing much processing, if any, for the camera.

RE: Meh
By someguy123 on 11/7/2010 2:20:34 AM , Rating: 2
I can see the problem with the wiimotes jittery movement, kinects lack of tactile input, and regular controllers being forced to drag your crosshair....but what's wrong with the move wand? Works fine for shooters from what I've seen and played at conventions. Maybe you can make the case that there's not enough buttons but there's nothing that says shooters need to require as many buttons as they do nowadays.

RE: Meh
By Smilin on 11/4/2010 5:49:55 PM , Rating: 3

Furthermore why would anybody expect this not to flop just as badly?

I've played one for months now (can finally spill the beans without breaking my friends NDA). It absolutely will not flop. They are gonna sell a bajillion of these things and people are going to have a blast.

Hardcore gamer is not the same thing as "fun game hater". Even the hardcore folks (like me... 30hrs/wk of 3dshooters) are gonna have fun.

RE: Meh
By Hiawa23 on 11/4/2010 1:19:41 PM , Rating: 2
I own all three of this gens consoles, & I don't like motion controls anything, but I think some seem to forget the whole purpose of Kinect & Move which is to get the casuals on board. All the games I have seen for Kinect so far are along the same style of the family friendly, fun Wii like games, & I thought that was the purpose. Seems like many in the hardcore crowd seems threatened or something by Kinect & Move. Don't worry, your games won't dissapear. I hope both devices do well as this is a win wing for gamers, & buys MS & Sony the necessary time, & not have the pressure to release new consoles that much of the gaming population is not ready for or can afford given these rough economic times.

RE: Meh
By dagamer34 on 11/4/2010 2:24:12 PM , Rating: 2
Casual gamers don't spend a lot of money on games because they are....casual gamers!

They may buy the hardware, play with it for a few weeks or months, then never use it again. It's the Wii all over again. And look at how the Wii is doing now. Ok for 4 years but the wheels are clearly starting to fall off the bus and the crash is gonna be big.

I would hope that people know better and don't buy into this crap.

RE: Meh
By Mitch101 on 11/4/2010 2:50:13 PM , Rating: 2
Casual gamers are sometimes casual because the games they play just aren't fun. I swore off 3rd person shooters until I played Left 4 Dead and I was hooked like I hadn't been in years. I went from casual to hard core.

I have an EyeToy and it was a lot of fun if you played the right games for it. When it was set up Lots of our non gamer friends even played it and my kids played it till they couldn't move any more. There were games we had that no one cared to play but some games were so much fun you and your friends had to play them. We nearly had parties around the thing. Kinect is the second generation of this kind of technology with the right games its a lot of fun and I need some fun.

RE: Meh
By Iaiken on 11/4/2010 4:48:03 PM , Rating: 2
Casual gamers don't spend a lot of money on games because they are....casual gamers!

Which is fine for Nintendo because they still make money on every single console and peripheral.

MS and Sony each REQUIRE an attachment rate of 9 games per console just to recoup their losses in the form of licensing fees.

Nintendo is still in the envious position to keep on cutting prices. A $99 Wii would be something that many casual gamers and parents would find hard to resist.

RE: Meh
By Smilin on 11/5/2010 2:43:51 PM , Rating: 2
That sounds like some really stale data you're quoting. Got some links to back it up?

The 360 and PS3 are very mature hardware platforms. The cost of their components was high at the time of release but has dropped significantly.

Go price a 3ghz cpu, 250gig drive, and 512mb ram, and a 3 year old graphics card and you'll get some (rough) idea.

I would seriously doubt they are losing money on consoles sold still. Usually when you see a re-release it means they've tipped past the profit point on the hardware. PS3 did it with the slim, 360 just released the shiny model.

RE: Meh
By Phoque on 11/4/2010 5:39:52 PM , Rating: 2
The technology in this thing is pretty incredible.

I heard so. I'm just sorry it resulted in a compromise ( I think they had to remove a chip from the Kinect to lower price and have that processing done on the 360 ), which is the reason for some of the lag user experience.

One big question about the lag is: to what extent a better or optimal implementation can eliminate or make you forget about it?

I wish all the best to Microsoft and thank them for taking such a risky initiative. But I'm skeptical and not convinced at all it will catch on.

Ultimately, even if it's not that big of a hit on the 360, it could very well be the next big thing on next gen console, with all that experience Microsoft will have developed.

RE: Meh
By karlostomy on 11/6/2010 3:56:39 AM , Rating: 2
I am just sorry that Jason Mick based his article on 3 reviews from engadget, ARS, and gizmodo.

Plenty of reviews exist from other sources that praise the device for its fun and innovation.

What about all the 50+ other reviews that you didn't mention, JM?
They don't count?

RE: Meh
By Smilin on 11/8/2010 2:14:31 PM , Rating: 2
The lag does not interfere with the gameplay experience at all. Any examples where you've seen annoying lag were taken during early beta when debug (slower) code was being used.

I've not heard anything about removing a chip. Did you find that in an article or something? The software has been in flux but the hardware has been fixed for months now (friends beta unit is exact same as RTM).

RE: Meh
By CZroe on 11/4/2010 7:26:25 PM , Rating: 2
"The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess" was a LOT more than just a Wii tech demo. ;)

Besides, MS has had TONS of time to be working on the software since long before the Kinect hardware was finalized. Years.

RE: Meh
By kroker on 11/6/2010 5:04:24 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, the technology is pretty neat, but it seems this is a case of inventing a solution and then searching for problems it can solve, instead of the other way around.

I don't think many people thought to themselves "man, I just wish I could control this game by wildly swinging my hands around instead of using a gamepad!" before Kinect was released.

“And I don't know why [Apple is] acting like it’s superior. I don't even get it. What are they trying to say?” -- Bill Gates on the Mac ads

Copyright 2016 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki