Print 77 comment(s) - last by tastyratz.. on Jul 21 at 8:59 AM

Sony announces no 1080p resolution for 3D games on PS3; will leave strictly in 720p.

According to Joystiq , PlayStation 3 games in 3D will have their HD resolution capped. While demonstrating the newest version of the system at the Develop Conference,  Sony representative Simon Benson announced that games that run at 1080p resolution will be downscaled in 3D mode -- per eye -- to 720p.  

Speaking to
Joystiq, Benson stated that although the PS3 has the capability of displaying a 1080p image, a  resolution higher than 720p has been restricted because Sony contends that a higher frame rate would impact the quality of viewing.  

Blu-ray movies will retain the 1080p resolution.  Blu-rays run at 24 frames per second, but games run at 60 frames per second -- upping the resolution for games would compromise the smoothness of the frames.  While a "more cinematic game" could be equipped to handle the 1080p resolution at the cost of frames, Sony's current guidelines won't allow users to change settings, Benson said.

A true 1080p image consists of 2M individual pixels, about twice the amount shown in a 720p image. Benson added that even trained computer graphic artist could barely tell the difference between resolutions.

On the Newbies Inc. website, Benson indicated that  that online gamers with a 3D TV may have a competitive advantage over those playing on HD sets.

"It all depends on the gamers to be honest. Initially we were slightly concerned about this because we were thinking, what if it makes it twice as easy or something like that."

He also stated that 3D can have the effect of making games more accessible for inexperienced players.

"I think what’s basically going to happen is that anyone who has stereoscopic 3D televisions and, for example, is playing a driving game, I would imagine you’re likely to find that the accessibility level is higher, that people would generally perform better on their first go. But I think at the high end with the hardcore gamers you’ll still see a [3D] advantage there, potentially, but the margins will be far smaller."

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there is a diff?
By ixelion on 7/19/2010 2:49:20 PM , Rating: 2
I've never compared 720p to 1080p but if its anything like 1280x720 versus 1920x1080 LCD resolutions, then there is a HUGE difference.

RE: there is a diff?
By makius on 7/19/2010 3:07:21 PM , Rating: 2
I've never compared 720p to 1080p but if its anything like 1280x720 versus 1920x1080 LCD resolutions, then there is a HUGE difference.

That's exactly what 720p is. And yes there is a huge difference. I'm not sure what Benson was smoking when he said you can barely tell the difference between 720p and 1080p.

However, I can understand the reason they would limit the resolution for 3D gaming on these current gen consoles. The PS3 and 360 just don't have the hardware to properly render stereoscopic 3D gaming environments at high resolutions in real time. Although I still think 3D is just a giant gimmick and won't be wasting my time or money on it.

RE: there is a diff?
By mckirkus on 7/19/2010 3:13:06 PM , Rating: 3
It's easy to see when reading text but a bit harder to see when watching video, especially super compressed HD tv broadcasts. It's easy to spot the difference with a big tv and a blu-ray player.

RE: there is a diff?
By Mitch101 on 7/20/2010 8:42:10 AM , Rating: 3
The viewing distance and screen size plays a huge roll in this as well. If you have a 42" screen and sit back 15' I bet it would be difficult to tell the difference. Probably the most likely scenario why people are satisfied with DVD still.

RE: there is a diff?
By tastyratz on 7/20/2010 2:23:09 PM , Rating: 1
more than bet, its beyond the perceived resolution of the human eye at that distance and size tv with 20/20 vision. Any differences you are seeing is in the SCALER and compression. Modern video deivery (read: cable/sat) compress their signal so far beyond bluray that you will see a huge difference there (think 4gb movie vs 40gb movie).
What people are usually seeing is that since modern flat panels are fixed pixel displays a 1080p image looks best on a 1080p tv, and 720p on 720p tv, etc.

Your average videophile couldn't pick out a 1080p vs 720p signal on a GOOD set from a normal viewing distance under a 50 inch display.

Hell most people cant spot the difference between a 300dpi or 150dpi 4x6 photo print at normal viewing distances.

Isn't the marketing placebo effect grand?

RE: there is a diff?
By tastyratz on 7/21/2010 8:59:11 AM , Rating: 2
aww a down vote.
But hey don't take my word on it, try cnet:
Whether you're dealing with 1080p/24 or standard 1080p/60, doesn't alter our overall views about 1080p TVs. We still believe that when you're dealing with TVs 50 inches and smaller, the added resolution has only a very minor impact on picture quality. In our tests, we put 720p (or 768p) sets next to 1080p sets, then feed them both the same source material, whether it's 1080i or 1080p, from the highest-quality Blu-ray player. We typically watch both sets for a while, with eyes darting back and forth between the two, looking for differences in the most-detailed sections, such as hair, textures of fabric, and grassy plains. Bottom line: It's almost always very difficult to see any difference--especially from farther than 8 feet away on a 50-inch TV.

or pc magazine:
Of the 64 participants, 59 percent said they preferred the 1080p set.

I would hardly call 59% an overwhelming majority. With 2 sets to pick from it leaves a lot of room and is almost break even. It goes to show however that the difference is not what people think of it as

Note both of these tests involved a 1080p source bluray signal which means the 720p sets are scaling to begin with (where the perceived quality loss is on a lower end tv usually)

RE: there is a diff?
By Alexvrb on 7/19/2010 8:47:05 PM , Rating: 2
Hmm, what about games that run in 2D mode in 720p (or less...)? Are they going to run in stereoscopic 480p? :P

RE: there is a diff?
By afkrotch on 7/19/2010 9:00:47 PM , Rating: 2
If it's a 720p game, upscaled to 1080p, then what is the difference? It's not like the console is going to let me increase my POV to make use of the higher resolution.

RE: there is a diff?
By someguy123 on 7/19/2010 9:18:32 PM , Rating: 2
Increased resolution isn't necessarily linked to increased viewable area in-game.

The benefit of higher resolution is clearer picture and reduced aliasing. On a smaller screen 720p runs fine, but on larger screens it's quite a bit more jagged (and/or blurry if you upscale) than 1080p.

RE: there is a diff?
By driver01z on 7/20/2010 1:06:10 PM , Rating: 2
For me the difference depends - typically yes, it is noticable, because typically I'm playing a game and you notice more aliasing in 720p. If the game has good anti-aliasing though, then its possible for me to not notice a difference.

RE: there is a diff?
By Marlonsm on 7/19/2010 3:12:42 PM , Rating: 2
if its anything like 1280x720 versus 1920x1080 LCD resolutions


That's the difference, maybe it's even worse because your shiny new 1080p 3D TV won't be running at its native resolution.

RE: there is a diff?
By quiksilvr on 7/19/2010 3:25:47 PM , Rating: 2
Or your shiny new 1080p 3DTV will upscale the already 60 frames per second 3D 720p signal for its 1080p screen resolution?

And this doesn't affect Blu ray movies. Since they are running at a much less hectic 24 frames per second, it will be 1080p.

RE: there is a diff?
By someguy123 on 7/19/2010 9:20:28 PM , Rating: 2
Upscaling is always worse than having the actual resolution.

This doesn't affect movies because movies aren't rendering 3D scenes in real-time.

RE: there is a diff?
By Xaussie on 7/19/10, Rating: -1
RE: there is a diff?
By hemmy on 7/19/2010 5:30:52 PM , Rating: 4
Blu Ray looks much much much much much much better than DVDs. I cringe whenever I have to watch movies in standard def now, it kills me.

RE: there is a diff?
By SPOOFE on 7/19/10, Rating: 0
RE: there is a diff?
By daniyarm on 7/19/2010 5:31:30 PM , Rating: 3
No offense, but I am a bit surprised that a "monitor/resolution junkie" thinks blu-ray is a waste of time. Blu-ray is not only movies, it's video also, try watching Planet Earth on BR vs DVD. And BR is also lossless audio. These new audio tracks would be enough to fill a whole DVD, so I wouldn't call BR a waste of anything.

Video lenses are close to an order of magnitude more expensive than professional SLR lenses that already outresolve even the best sensors on the market. The problem with video is that unlike photography it is usually used in much darker environments and lack of contrast and grain start to overtake resolution.

And image quality has nothing to do with distance (that's just our eyes not being sharp enough), but monitor quality. On my 24" NEC monitor that costs more than your average 32" HDTV the difference is night and day between DVD and BR. If they were able to produce large displays of the same quality (like in medical fields), the difference would be even more obvious.

RE: there is a diff?
By integr8d on 7/20/2010 12:37:13 AM , Rating: 2
"The problem with video is that unlike photography it is usually used in much darker environments and lack of contrast and grain start to overtake resolution."

Really? It's usually used in much darker environments?

RE: there is a diff?
By Xaussie on 7/20/2010 1:55:48 PM , Rating: 2
Most Blu-Ray movies I've seen are 48KHz/16 bit and IMHO they sound pretty ordinary compared to DVD which is 96KHz/24 bit (albeit with compression). Overall I feel that DVDs sound better than Blu-Ray discs and I was really disappointed about that because I was expecting great things from Blu-Ray (like the magic of listening to Brothers In Arms in 5.1 on SACD for example).

As for lenses I shoot with $2000+ Nikkors so I know what lenses can resolve and in most live action movies I'm not seeing anything close to that level of detail. And distance does come into it because the further away from the screen we sit the less detail we can resolve (Europeans anyway, Aboriginal Australians probably have good enough eyesight to justify 1080p at 20ft viewing distance).

A monitor is a different story because we sit right in front of it. I use a $2500 NEC 3090 Spectraview which is 2560 x 1600 and is internally calibrated. It doesn't get much better than that but it's complete overkill for watching video of any kind.

RE: there is a diff?
By JazzMang on 7/19/2010 5:56:55 PM , Rating: 2
And on what planet do Blu-rays look just like their DVD counterparts? That's a joke, right?

RE: there is a diff?
By acer905 on 7/19/2010 6:27:57 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps a planet where the person owns a 32" flat CRT instead of an LCD or Plasma? When the native input is 480, does it really matter if you up the video to 720 or 1080?

RE: there is a diff?
By SPOOFE on 7/19/10, Rating: 0
RE: there is a diff?
By AmbroseAthan on 7/19/2010 6:54:38 PM , Rating: 2
While the things you mention do greatly matter, most productions (movie and TV) people wish to see in 1080p are normally recorded on either film, or digital resolutions higher then 1080p; 2k, 3k, 4k, 5k, all are common now.

There is a very large shift occurring in Theatres to 4K projectors over the next couple of years.

I bring this up to point out these productions normally have already solved all of the issues you listed, well before HD TV existed, and are now recording at ~4x 1080p levels (4K). While they matter more then resolution, they are also non-issues for most productions.

RE: there is a diff?
By someguy123 on 7/19/2010 9:22:16 PM , Rating: 2
And all of those things retain more detail with HD video.

RE: there is a diff?
By integr8d on 7/20/2010 12:44:31 AM , Rating: 2
He didn't say 'just like'... Obviously, it's not 'just like'. He made a good point about motion resolution (which a lot of people failed to pick up on). He also made a good point color gamut (which I'd assume he meant to say color bit depth). All consumer U.S. video is output at the REC 709 color space.

After sitting in a DI suite with Joe Kane and watching upscaled DVD on a PS3 and having him acknowledge the amount of detail in a properly transferred DVD, I can tell you that DVD isn't bad.

Too often people get too wrapped up in resolution. They either forget or don't know that contrast and detail play an equally, if not more, important role than resolution. Watch Baraka upscaled through a real video processor and then watch '1080p' video off someone's handicam and tell me which looks better.

RE: there is a diff?
By Xaussie on 7/20/2010 2:04:48 PM , Rating: 2
Properly mastered DVD being a key point here. If everything I saw on DirecTV was of the calibre of something like "Horton Hears a Who" on DVD I'd have no interest in HD at all, but sadly most DVDs are not nearly that good (and it would even put some Blu-Rays to shame), and off air DirecTV can be apalling at times.

Also color bit depth has nothing to do with gamut. Perceptually we can only resolve about 6.5 bits in a normally lit environment. Bit depth is simply how many slices you divide the color space into, and too few results in banding. Gamut is how much of the color space you can display and the original LCD displays (regardless of bit depth) could only display about 72% of NTSC. Modern displays like my NEC 3090 pretty much cover all of NTSC and all of Adobe RGB (and do it while being driven by an 8 bit graphics card).

RE: there is a diff?
By AnnihilatorX on 7/20/2010 6:17:06 AM , Rating: 2
I remember the sales girl selling the LG monitor.

They claim that people generally prefer this 3D LCD monitor which uses passive polariser glasses which is interlaced and have half of the resolution of of 1080p instead of the one which uses active shutter glass but full HD.

Reason being along the lines of 'information overload'.

"People Don't Respect Confidentiality in This Industry" -- Sony Computer Entertainment of America President and CEO Jack Tretton
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