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Steve Jobs didn't shy away from ranting on his favorite topics at D8.  (Source: Engadget)

He even did the robot (or Android?) for a short bit.  (Source: Engadget)

Steve Jobs ponders a puzzling audience question.  (Source: Engadget)
Apple's CEO leaves no stone unturned in a candid interview

Tonight at the eight annual All Things Digital conference (D8 for short) a frequent guest -- Apple CEO, co-founder and "supreme leader" (according to All Things Digital) Steve Jobs -- popped and let loose on a variety of topics during an interview with Walt Mossberg and Kara Swisher (the exchange was liveblogged by Engadget).

Fresh out the gates, Jobs ripped into Adobe on the topic of Flash.  He said, "Flash looks like it had its day but it's waning, and HTML5 looks like it's coming up.  There's no smartphone shipping with Flash."

Jobs not only yet again compared Flash to deceased formats like the 3 and 1/2 inch floppy disk and Hyper Card, but also claims that he's the one being victimized.  He alluded to his recent open letter/rant against Flash, stating, "We told Adobe to show us something better, and they never did. It wasn't until we shipped the iPad that Adobe started to raise a stink about it. We weren't trying to have a fight, we just decided to not use one of their products. They made a big deal of it -- that's why I wrote that letter. I said enough is enough, we're tired of these guys trashing us."

The interview then took a turn into a discussion about Gizmodo, searches, and the infamous lost iPhone prototype.  On this Jobs comments, "Well a guy... who can say if he's a journalist... I can tell you what I do know, though. To make a product you need to test it. You have to carry them outside. One of our employees was carrying one. There's a debate about whether he left it in a bar, or it was stolen out of his bag. The person who found it tried to sell it, they called Engadget, they called Gizmodo."

"The person who took the phone plugged it into his roommates computer. And this guy was trying to destroy evidence... and his roommate called the police. So this is a story that's amazing -- it's got theft, it's got buying stolen property, it's got extortion, I'm sure there's some sex in there."

And towards the end of his talk he commented, "You know, when this whole thing with Gizmodo happened, I got advice from people who said 'you gotta just let it slide, you shouldn't go after a journalist just because they bought stolen property and tried to extort you.' And I thought deeply about this, and I concluded the worst thing that could happen is if we change our core values and let it slide. I can't do that. I'd rather quit."

Those two controversial topics weren't the only ones hit on during this barn-burner interview, though.  Jobs was questioned on the topic of Foxconn where Apple is reportedly subsidizing a pay raise for its overworked employees after a string of 11 suicides, several of which occurred over the last couple weeks.  Jobs remarks, "We are all over this. Foxconn is not a sweatshop."

He says that the suicides are somewhat like a string of suicides that occurred in his home town of Palo Alto.  He comments, "The rate is under what the US rate is, but it's still troubling.  We had this in my hometown of Palo Alto, copy cat suicides. We're over there trying to understand this. It's a difficult situation."

Jobs says that one morning he just woke up and heard about Android.  When asked if he felt betrayed, though, he quipped, "My sex life is pretty good."

But when asked about his search plans, there was little humor in his unequivocal response.  He stated, "We have no plans to go into the search business. We don't care about it -- other people do it well."

On the topic of the iPhone itself Jobs says that AT&T is doing a good job handling its loads of traffic, but complains that they "have issues."  He failed to elaborate further on what these "issues" were, but he did comment that there might be advantages to going with a second carrier in the U.S.  But he said he couldn't talk about that at this time.

Those were among the highlights in what was one of the most candid, at times hilarious, and overall hard-hitting interviews in recent history.  A full video will be linked here, courtesy of All Things Digital, once it gets posted.


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RE: Get over it already.
By descendency on 6/2/2010 1:10:55 AM , Rating: -1
Flash kills the user-experience while browsing the internet. It's AWFUL. Even on a PC, Flash and Acrobat Reader are two of the worst programs ever made - both currently maintained by Adobe. (Not shocking)

As someone who has, uses, and loves his Froyo (Android 2.2 - flash capable) Nexus One, I can tell you why Flash isn't on an Apple MID. It sucks. Steve Jobs requires a certain standard for his products and Flash does not meet said standard.

Yet, somehow, everyone loves the s***.

(Yea, you can turn it to "on-demand" which makes it alot more bareable. It shouldn't have to be that way though.)


RE: Get over it already.
By afkrotch on 6/2/2010 2:43:37 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Steve Jobs requires a certain standard for his products and Flash does not meet said standard.


Yet, the biggest problem that users are seeing with the iPad is crap apps. You know, the kind that like to freeze the device or the app just crashes.

Ya, some standards there.


RE: Get over it already.
By KC7SWH on 6/2/2010 10:29:05 AM , Rating: 2
Jobs just says we've upped our standards so up yours!


RE: Get over it already.
By sebmel on 6/2/10, Rating: 0
RE: Get over it already.
By The0ne on 6/2/2010 11:53:43 AM , Rating: 1
Firstly, this is a blog for people to vent their frustrations. Logic, common sense, decency and research has a very small part in these types of conversations. 95% of the people here think they have the expertise in all matters when it's apparent their experience often times doesn't expand pass the internal of their house.

So instead of shutting up in fields where they have limited experience and expertise on, they choose to voice their "opinions" that's has little basis of anything. That is a right, although a pathetic one (see I did it here and I'm not shrink!). And much too many here rely too heavily on wiki and google for their information. They do not make you knowledgeable in the field of discussion!

Secondly, to be ashamed one has to realize what has been said and done. I wouldn't waste your words on Jason Mick one bit. As you put it, one only has to be familiar or read his threads (not news now) to see what you are saying.


RE: Get over it already.
By sebmel on 6/2/10, Rating: 0
RE: Get over it already.
By sebmel on 6/2/10, Rating: 0
RE: Get over it already.
By B3an on 6/3/2010 7:37:45 PM , Rating: 2
I've tried Flash on Androind 2.2 and it runs REALLY well. So thats FUD. Or just watch some vids on youtube to see it for yourself.

Having Flash on Androind has many good advantages, not just being able to see the whole web.
I'll be making Flash based games for Android the moment the tools are available.
And yeah you then get Flash adds on pages, but i'm sure there will be ad blockers that will stop this. And people shouldn't hate Flash because it's used heavily for ads, if there was a better alternative that would just be used instead. What if HTML5 could do everything Flash could (if cant) and was used to make ads, would people hate HTML5 too?

With Flash Lite 3.0 and older, it only supports up to actionscript 2.0. Nearly anything made in Flash with 2.0 coding will work. Flash Lite 4.0 is now out and will work with actionscript 3.0 coding. So 99% of Flash stuff should work.
Flash Lite will almost definitely die out eventually now that devices have the capabilities/processions power to run the full Flash 10.1 player.

And i think most people know what Mick is doing, but that doesn't mean Apple are a remotely decent company and that Jobs ins't a complete A-hole.


RE: Get over it already.
By KWRussell on 6/3/2010 1:07:42 AM , Rating: 1
Wow, only one -1 comment on the entire post, and it's the one that has Mick, the Apple haters, and the moderator goon squad dead to rights. What a surprise. But hey, if inmates running the asylum drive the page views, why not?


RE: Get over it already.
By XSpeedracerX on 6/2/2010 3:37:47 AM , Rating: 5
descendency does any of that change anything I just said? Flash is the windows of the media world. Yeah many love to knock it and wish it would go away, you can point in any direction and be aiming at someone whose had a negative experience with it, and many wish it would die, but a 90% grip on the market makes a product hard to kill. Stevie wonder would have to convert the world to have an outside shot of killing flash, and even then, it won't be gone forever still, because of all the legacy hardware and media still available for it.

Free HTML5 for all won't be a silver bullet either. Openoffice as well as google-docs are both 100% free to use, yet their market share isn't even in the double digits, while the $500 office juggernaught enjoys 98% of the market to itself. High market share makes a product hard to kill. Just like windows, just like office, just like flash.


RE: Get over it already.
By kb9fcc on 6/2/10, Rating: -1
RE: Get over it already.
By XSpeedracerX on 6/2/2010 3:54:48 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
And the phonograph record was the media of choice for over 100 years. Don't see much of those any more, do you? Or how about Beta and VHS tapes, or HD-DVD? No? Even the DVD is going to be replaced by Blu-Ray or... Things change.


None of those examples apply to flash vs. HTML5 because in each of the those cases, the established format had clear and distinct disadvantages when conpared to the newcomer that made the initially costly switch over from one format to another beneficial to consumers and producers alike. What does HTML5 have over flash to justify converting ones entire catalog of media?

For example, Youtube's database size might be 45TB and all of it is in flash. All of it. Some of it uses the h.264 codec, but this to is only accessible from a flash interface (there you go if you're wondering how apple can have a youtube app). Converting all of that video to HTML5 might be a 20 million dollar investment of time, energy, coding (because the web page used to show the videos will have to be retrofired to support this) and college educated manpower. What does HTML5 offer over flash to both consumer and producer to justify this investment?

quote:
Flash is a bloated, proprietary dinosaur.


So? What about that make it unviable or unprofitable? The same could be said of any incarnation of windows past-present and future, yet it enjoys 98% market share and heres a fact; No matter what radical changes Personal Computing undergoes its a guarantee that your great grandkids will be using windows. probably to surf youtube for some cool vids. With the latest flash plugin of course.

quote:
Flash is unfriendly to search engines because there is no text to search if the information is embedded in the Flash content.


LOL if you think that's actually a detriment to flash. Producers of proprietary premium content DON'T WANT you to be able to easily search through their shit from anywhere. Aside from that, this hasn't stopped youtube's own search engine from working just fine.

quote:
If Flash is just being used as a container to deliver video, then there are better, open standards alternatives, namely HTML5.


LOL again if you think the world is crying out for open standards. Did wonders for linux to be open. You're average windows box user probably couldn't spell Ubuntu without a web search, let alone tell you what it is or what it does (and your average apple acolyte probably doesn't know that ubuntu and OSX are based on the same Kernel.) Did wonders for openoffice to be, uhh...open. Despite doing the same things as a competitor that costs five hundred dollars while it's 100% free to use forever, it's market share is in the single digits while Microsoft five-hundred-dollar office dominates.

It may be fun to romanticize open standards for everything but, uh...get real. All the stuff we want is proprietary. All the producers want to encode it on a closed proprietary system, so that they can protect/encrypt their shit as much as possible so that they know no one gets in without buying a ticket, and whose heads should roll if the safeguards against piracy fail.

quote:
Finally, the thing that all the Flash fan boys seem to miss is, Flash doesn't play well with ANY touch screen. Period.


And what HTML5 fanboi romanticizers seem to forget is NONE OF THAT SHIT MATTERS. None of it. Not even a little. 90% market share means that flash can be old, bloated, not functional and a resource hog, yet giants in the media industry STILL tell Stevie wonder to eat a dick when they are asked to drop support for it, even though that means they are walking away from billions in potential revenue from apple's customers. Why would they do this?

Because they know it's not worth it. It's not worth the time and energy investment required to take a whole catalog of media and move it to HTML5, drop flash, and in the process drop 99% of everyone who watches videos on the internet. It's not even worth it to have a side-by-side HTML5 catalog when 99% of your viewers use flash anyway. I know fantasy land is fun, but it's time to get real.


RE: Get over it already.
By adiposity on 6/2/2010 5:57:57 PM , Rating: 1
wow...just...hammered him.


RE: Get over it already.
By hughlle on 6/2/2010 7:03:22 AM , Rating: 2
other than ranting that it's crapo and that you don't like it blah.

why? give me good reasoning? the only time i've found a reason to have a gripe at flash would be the continuous loading circle that sometimes seems to be present, other than that i can find no gripe with it as a simple end user.


RE: Get over it already.
By robinthakur on 6/2/2010 7:54:14 AM , Rating: 1
I think the deficiencies with Flash were not as obvious before everybody started walking round with iPhones that can browse the internet pretty well on sites without there needing to be a mobile version of the site created specifically. The only aspect that does NOT work very well is where you have a site which heavily uses Flash and it typically just doesn't display at all. This is not an iPhone specific problem, it affects 99% of all phones.

Even on OS's like Froyo which are Flash capable, do you really want to load up something which is typically extremely processor and memory intensive when there are often better ways of displaying the content these days? The problem is with badly coded Flash that leaks memory like no tomorrow. Often it seems like the product of a bygone age waiting to buffer splash welcome screens rather than adding anything to the experience. Where the entire interface is written solely in Flash this effectively means that no mobile user can access the site which can't really be in the interest of any Webmaster can it?

To me as a developer, I don't see the point of Flash on a mobile device as it currently stands even if it runs on Froyo. Don't get me wrong, I love developing in Flashy, but if the audience can't access it consistently its a deal breaker. As a predominantly vector based app, it should be ideal, but due to the way it was designed back in the day, its holding it back. Adobe should devote their time to creating a HTML5 WYSIWYG editor, which is surely already in progress.


RE: Get over it already.
By zmatt on 6/2/2010 7:48:22 AM , Rating: 3
Whats with all the flash hate? I used to do web design free lance and my personal philosophy was to use flash where necessary. It's powerful enough to have capabilities unrivaled, but if you go nuts with it and build your site in action script it will be bloated and take forever to load. Aside from ditching plenty of other "Web 2.0" conventions that everyone was on, this was my big rule. Ajax can already replace Flash to a large extent, but it has shortcomings as well. If flash is used correctly then it is great. Most people's issues with Flash revolves around bad implementation, not flash itself.


RE: Get over it already.
By nafhan on 6/2/2010 8:09:12 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Flash kills the user-experience while browsing the internet. It's AWFUL.
I completely disagree. It's specifically the badly done Flash stuff (mostly ads) that kills the user experience. Really, though, badly done anything kills the user experience on any platform. So, that's not saying much.
The ubiquity of Flash lends itself to massive amounts of poorly done content, because people know that even if they don't do a good job they can still reach a large potential audience. I'm not saying Flash is wonderful, just that too much blame is placed on Flash, and not enough on it's misuse by unskilled developers.


RE: Get over it already.
By mcnabney on 6/2/2010 11:03:52 AM , Rating: 2
You do understand that when HTML5 becomes a standard all of those annoying Flash adds are going to be annoying HTML5 ads. The things that everyone hates Flash for will move right over to HTML5.


"Let's face it, we're not changing the world. We're building a product that helps people buy more crap - and watch porn." -- Seagate CEO Bill Watkins














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