Print 57 comment(s) - last by robinthakur.. on May 6 at 10:35 AM

"Man I love HTML5, but that Flash really gives me a headache!" "Me too, Steve, oh my gosh!!"  (Source: Coder Log)
Microsoft also supports use of proprietary video codec -- h.264

Proponents of HTML5, a hot new web standard that adds video and audio capabilities to the HTML stable, say that it is essential to free the web from the proprietary clutches of Adobe, maker of Flash.  Critics says that it's just a pretty box for another proprietary offering.  They point out that while HTML5 as an open standard could support open video standards like Ogg Theora, all the industry' major players have embraced h.264 -- a proprietary video codec -- as the future of HTML5, essentially killing the hopes of widespread support or adoption of an open codec.

Apple is a big fan of h.264 and a big fan of HTML5.  It doesn't think much of Adobe, though.

Perhaps a more important question, though, is where does Microsoft, who holds more than 90 percent of the operating system market, stand on this issue?   

Interestingly, in a blog to web developers, Microsoft's General Manager for Internet Explorer, Dean Hachamovitch agrees with Apple's assessment.  He states that HTML5 is the "future of the web".  He then proceeds to toss dirt at Adobe, commenting that their "reliability, security, and performance" haven't been so great.

He then softens the blow a bit, remarking that Flash is important to "a good consumer experience on today's web" -- but only because there's not many alternatives widely available currently (most users use Internet Explorer, which doesn't currently support HTML5).

Interestingly, in the talk the Microsoft exec totally ignores Microsoft's own proprietary plug-in Silverlight that it's long been trying to peddle.

Microsoft and Apple agreeing on HTML5?  Microsoft following "Apple's line" with the Windows Phone 7 smart phone operating system?  Windows 7 being fully supported on Boot Camp?  You'd think that Microsoft and Apple were old buddies, not bitter rivals.  What's the world coming to?

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By sapiens74 on 4/30/2010 12:18:02 PM , Rating: 0
Steveo was right and no one has yet refuted his points...

By omnicronx on 4/30/2010 12:33:14 PM , Rating: 1
Many of his points are correct, but you are a fool if you think his true motives have anything to do with his statements.

Plain and simple, Jobs wants control and will say anything to get it. In my opinion I don't think it would have mattered if Adobe was a good product and worked good on Macs, he wants to full control over the way the web works, and the only way to do that is to get rid of adobe. I'm not saying hes wrong here either, and quite frankly its quite reasonable, open standards should power the web (at least for consumer centric devices).I just don't think we should rush into something just to get away from Adobe.

By omnicronx on 4/30/2010 3:50:13 PM , Rating: 3
Please - how does supporting an open standard like HTML5 lead to Apple controlling the web and how does not supporting as (piss poor) proprietary system like Flash help Apple control the web? What you are saying makes no sense.
I'm not sure how you derived that from my quote..

I meant Apple wants to control the way in which the web works on their devices. Flash is proprietary, Apple has absolutely no input in the way say... web video would work on their devices should they support flash. This way they can control the implementation and have input into the standard (and you have to know the big players like Google/MS/Apple have a lot of pull on that front). That being said, this is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact I do support it in theory.

My problem is certain key issues with HTML5 have not been hammered out yet specifically audio/video part of the spec. They can't decide on a standard and there are codec licensing issues involved. As it stands the flash container is the web standard for multimedia, licensing is left up to adobe in most circumstances, and to the user/developer it really does not differ platform to platform, browser to browser.

Until this happens HTML5 is not a suitable flash replacement, it could easily create more problems than it would solve(specifically fragmentation). And this goes back to my point, Jobs wants control and is making perfectly true statements to push his agenda. This is not about the 'inefficiencies of Flash', this is about Flash being what is essentially a proprietary standard. (which is where my 'Jobs would still be complaining if Flash were good' statement came from)

Finalize HTML5 and choose suitable standards before you start pushing it, don't be hasty just to gain control.. Thats all I'm saying.

By beerhound on 5/2/2010 4:53:01 PM , Rating: 2
You are right that it is about control, just not about controlling the web. Flash allows developers to deploy apps that could do an end-run around the App Store. If iPod, iPhone, iPad, iEtc supported flash, then users could get free or paid-for software without Apple getting a cut of the action.

Want to choose what software goes on your device and what features should be present? There's NOT an app for that......

By Krashnicki on 4/30/2010 12:41:04 PM , Rating: 3
HTML5 may be better for video playback but it is not an viable alternative to Flash in several aspects. IM not saying that Flash is without its flaws, but it definitely still has a place and useful purpose.

Form what I understand, HTML5 does not support interactive content, just video.

Also, look at Flash from a creative standpoint. It allows interactive games and content to be created with little coding ability.

Flash has benefits that HTML5 will not have. The reason Apple has a vendetta against Adobe is because Flash does not benefit Apple and can cut into sales of there precious apps. Thats its.

If I was adobe, i would lock patents on everything possible in the Creative Suite, and threaten to cut support of Adobe's Creative Suite to the Mac Platform if Mr Jobs doesn't start playing nice.

By omnicronx on 4/30/2010 1:13:27 PM , Rating: 3
What exactly is your point? You are just validating what he said.

Apple makes a lot of money as a result of the app store, not even from the apps themselves but for people using the platform as a result of such a large app catalog.

Problem is, many of these apps (the ones that don't tie into iPhone apis such as camera gps etc) have comparable and free flash alternatives. That was the point the OP was making, Flash does not benefit Apple, it could in fact hurt their bottom line.

The fact that Apple can buy Adobe in cash is irrelevent.. and FYI, i don't see how Apple's statements do not imply that they are saying get rid of flash for interactive content as they are clearly of not supporting it on their iPhone OS platform..

"We still want interactive content! We just don't want you to be able to use it!"

By nafhan on 4/30/2010 1:06:01 PM , Rating: 2
HTML5 is capable of interactive content. There's probably things that Flash can do that HTML5 can't, but interactivity isn't one of them. Here's a link to a paint app that's (supposedly) written in HTML5 and does not require Flash to be installed to run:
If that can be done, I would imagine Flash-like games would not be a problem, either. Once some decent tools are available (hint, hint, Adobe), I would think that creating interactive HTML5 applications won't be any harder than developing Flash apps. On the other side of the coin, development of resource hogging, slow, terrible HTML5 apps will also happen.

“So far we have not seen a single Android device that does not infringe on our patents." -- Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith

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