Print 61 comment(s) - last by darkblade33.. on Apr 20 at 1:04 PM

This just in -- Steve Jobs HATES Flash. He expressed his dislike of the platform in a reply to an frustrated Apple developer.  (Source: Business Insider)
Jobs is drinking more Flash hatorade

The Tao Effect, an Apple-focused software company maintains a blog where they banter about programming and chime in about issues effecting Apple developers.  On Friday the site's Greg Slepak wrote a post blasting Apple's new policy (in the iPhone SDK 3.3.1 terms) that iPhone apps can only be developed in C, C++, or Objective-C, essentially disallowing direct (linker-based) ports of Flash apps to the iPhone.

Along with the post, Greg took the unusual move of emailing Apple CEO Steve Jobs  Jobs occasionally responds personally to Apple customers or the media, but it seemed unlikely that anything would come of it.  

Surprisingly, Jobs quickly replied, pointing Slepnak to a post by the
Daring Fireball's John Gruber, which offered to justification for the move.  Writes Jobs:

We think John Gruber’s post is very insightful and not negative:" rel="nofollow


Slepnak was shocked to receive a response, but quickly replied:

Sorry. I didn’t catch that post, but I finished it just now.

I still think it undermines Apple. You didn’t need this clause to get to where you are now with the iPhone’s market share, adding it just makes people lose respect for you and run for the hills, as a commenter to that article stated:

"So what Apple does not want is for some other company to establish a de facto standard software platform on top of Cocoa Touch. Not Adobe’s Flash. Not .NET (through MonoTouch). If that were to happen, there’s no lock-in advantage.”

And that makes Apple evil. At least, it does in the sense that Google uses the term in “don’t be evil” – I believe pg translated “evil” as something along the lines of “trying to compete by means other than making the best product and marketing it honestly."

From a developer’s point of view, you’re limiting creativity itself. Gruber is wrong, there are plenty of [applications] written using cross-platform frameworks that are amazing, that he himself has praised. Mozilla’s Firefox just being one of them.

I don’t think Apple has much to gain with 3.3.1, quite the opposite actually.

Amazingly, Jobs responded yet a second time (within 3 minutes), stating:

We’ve been there before, and intermediate layers between the platform and the developer ultimately produces sub-standard apps and hinders the progress of the platform.

So there you have it -- an official response from Apple's CEO himself on why Apple is disallowing Flash and other third-party intermediaries.  Ultimately, the response is pretty predictable, given Jobs' past rants about Flash being "buggy" and crashing Mac computers and vowing it would never touch the iPhone (or iPad). 

Furthermore, Slepnak was referring to Adobe's software that would directly port Flash Apps to a binary using iPhone API calls (with no Flash involved in the final product).  That makes it almost seem like Jobs is claiming the Flash development tools themselves (not just the implementation) somehow inherently yield inferiors apps. 

An Adobe employee has already responded to Apple, in an unofficial statement, telling Apple to "Go screw” itself.

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RE: hes both wrong and right
By corduroygt on 4/12/2010 12:58:22 PM , Rating: 2
True, but like 90% of Flash is used for video and ads. I could put up with flash in applications, but video and ads should be flash free imho.

RE: hes both wrong and right
By Reclaimer77 on 4/12/10, Rating: 0
RE: hes both wrong and right
By corduroygt on 4/12/2010 1:19:53 PM , Rating: 2
I used flash for years but it was far from "fine", on Windows, OSX, and Linux. The situation is getting worse now especially since HD videos are beginning to take off.

I have no problem with flash apps, but watching a video should not hog my cpu 100%. Youtube is fine but some other sites have horribly unoptimized video players.

RE: hes both wrong and right
By Reclaimer77 on 4/12/2010 3:26:16 PM , Rating: 2
The situation is getting worse now especially since HD videos are beginning to take off.

That's ALREADY been fixed. It's called Flash 10. Maybe you should know wtf you're talking about before making comments.

I have no problem with flash apps, but watching a video should not hog my cpu 100%.

I agree. But that's been fixed now.

Youtube is fine but some other sites have horribly unoptimized video players.

Another good point, but this isn't Flash's fault. Plus a lot of people live in massive urban area's where the local loops is saturated and blame Flash for poor performance.

RE: hes both wrong and right
By mindless1 on 4/12/2010 5:34:45 PM , Rating: 2
I always said Flash sucked, and after installing Flash 10.1, suddenly some Flash games don't work right anymore.

Flash has always been ridiculously CPU intensive, doing something a 200MHz Pentium 1 can do should not consume over 20% of a 3+GHz system, and peak over 40%, and I do mean version 10 as well as 9 and before.

Flash is almost always misused by silly monkeys that think things need to move around when they don't, but are too lazy to code that instead of taking the short road that screws everybody. Hint to those people: If you can't do it right, get a different job.

RE: hes both wrong and right
By Targon on 4/12/2010 7:29:05 PM , Rating: 2
So, a beta version of Flash 10.1 has some problems, did you expect there to be no bugs in a beta? Then you have "some flash games"...did you write them and as a result know that there are zero bugs that might cause problems on the new version?

You also would need to show that you can even run that flash application on the 200MHz Pentium 1 before you complain about how much CPU it draws on a 3GHz system. Saying that some animation that was done as a native executable and then POORLY ported to Flash will also not work as well as if you do a good job in Flash. Why not say that emulators suck because in the process of doing the emulation, things slow down?

RE: hes both wrong and right
By mindless1 on 4/13/2010 4:37:52 PM , Rating: 2
Actually the release version 10.0 ALSO has this bug! So, they didn't even bother to fix the flaw before piling on more junk.

I don't need to know the game has zero bugs, I only need to know that once again a newer version of Flash is causing problems. I don't care to point fingers, I only care about the result which is once again I'm worse off than if Flash never existed.

I don't "need to know" I could run that Flash app on a Pentium I 200MHz, the point is the app would run as a standalone application on a Pentium I but once you add the Flash layer to do the same end result, THAT is what is an incredibly HUGE bloat and requires many times as much CPU horsepower.

Yes, many emulators do suck, but most people are not continually running an emulation which is what we are faced with constantly running Flash!

Put simply there is a good way and a bad way to do most things and Flash is used in a very poor way most of the time, meaning Flash shouldn't have been used at all.

RE: hes both wrong and right
By afkrotch on 4/14/2010 1:04:59 AM , Rating: 2
Am I the only one thinking,"this is a the worst arguement I've ever read?"

RE: hes both wrong and right
By darkblade33 on 4/20/2010 1:04:11 PM , Rating: 2
Im in the middle.. I think flash is still needed for some things, but needs to be phased out of other things as newer technologies come along.

Everyone still uses a car, but how many want to go back to old window cranks, when power windows are easier?

There are winners and losers.. Adobe flash has been used for many yrs, but how many companies ( not just Apple ) really want Adobe to have some control of their products..

RE: hes both wrong and right
By XZerg on 4/12/2010 1:25:51 PM , Rating: 2
you know the quick way to make these illiterates realize of Apple's trickery is Google to remove Youtube support... Although it would hurt Google's revenue and what not but sure as hell that would put a fire on Apple's retardedness...

RE: hes both wrong and right
By Pirks on 4/12/2010 1:44:54 PM , Rating: 2
An alternative point of view: when Adobe FINALLY delivers x64 Windows version of Flash plugin in 2020 or so, everyone will be using HTML5 by then and noone will need Flash ;)

RE: hes both wrong and right
By XZerg on 4/12/2010 1:23:03 PM , Rating: 1
hell no! FlashBlock would be useless and I would have a bitch of time to deal with removal of ads then :p

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