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The government and Lockheed Martin are scrambling to get back on schedule while fixing the overbudget project

The Pentagon confirmed a one-year delay of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program, with Deputy Defense Secretary Bill Lynn facing increased pressure to get spending under control on the project.

"The development was originally projected to last an additional 30 months; we think with the additional test aircraft it will be closer to a delay of about 12 or 13 months, but I can't give you the cost numbers," according to Lynn's statement to the media.

Pentagon officials didn't say if this one-year delay will push back final release dates, but it likely will, military experts have noted. 

The Marine Corps is expected to receive the first batch of F-35s in two years, while the Air Force and Navy are expected to receive the next-generation fighter aircraft in 2013 and 2014.  Prior to Lynn's recent announcement, Lockheed Martin officials noted they were about six months behind schedule, but still expect to be able to meet the USMC release date.

Last November, a report said the program is drastically overbudget and behind schedule, which led the government to rethink its strategy moving forward.  Actual demand for the aircraft remains unknown, but there have been at least 2,500 orders placed for the U.S. military branches, with several other nations also expected to receive the aircraft in years to come.

Due to costly delays and budget miscues, the DOD will also withhold $614 million that will eventually be paid to Lockheed Martin.



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RE: A Lost Cause
By SoCalBoomer on 2/19/2010 12:53:14 PM , Rating: 1
wait - you're looking at an Australian Air Force analysis page talking about their needs. This entire set of articles seems extremely speculative. . .

Chillin, you're making the same mistake that gets routinely made. Different needs mandate different roles:
You can't launch an F-22 from a carrier; you can launch an F-35 from a carrier - different role.
You can't create a V/STOL F-22 (or PAK-FA); the F-35 has a V/STOL variant.
You can't load the F-22 with a crapload of bombs - it's strictly air-superiority (with some in-board capacity); F-35 is meant to be a strike fighter (you know, the SF in JSF. . . :D )

As to the Sukhoi - it's behind the F-35 in development, just starting prototype trials. How long before it actually goes into production?


RE: A Lost Cause
By Iaiken on 2/19/2010 2:26:27 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
The PAK-FA is fitted with unusually robust high sink rate undercarriage, intended for STOL operations.


While it doesn't have any vertical hover capabilities, it is intended to have STOL capabilities and the air frame is structured to allow for future carrier based versions.

quote:
Therefore, from a technological strategy perspective, the PAK-FA renders all legacy US fighter aircraft, and the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, strategically irrelevant and non-viable after the PAK-FA achieves IOC in 2015.


The Australians are seriously reconsidering their agreement to purchase the F-35 for their air forces. With the additional delays and the requirement to meet the deliveries to the US forces before export, the PAK FA is being eyed by many nations as a viable alternative.

It is very likely that the PAK FA will follow suite with the SU-30's when it comes to international sale. The SU-30 derivatives that were sold to China and India had completely modern avionics, radar and weapons packages including glass cockpit. The fact that components are now being sourced from India, Israel, Taiwan, France, UK, China and even US manufacturers has demonstrated that the Russian arms industry has progressed far from being a sycophant catering to it's bureaucratic masters whims to one geared to turn a profit.

This could even signal a new strategic orientation for a Russian government that has no desire for a direct confrontation with the US. They are savvy enough to realize that the anti-American US allows for the existence of an anti-american military industry. It appears that many non-US analysts agree that objective of this new complex appears to the be to flood the world with enough affordable anti-american technologies that the US will have to think long and hard before attempting to project power. I've no idea what similar US analysts believe as there is practically no public information on the subject.

The laundry list of weapons systems designed to deny US technological capabilities is growing longer every year. It is also clear that deployment of these systems along side trained personnel threatens to end the current era of unopposed US access to such theaters.

And to what do we owe thanks for making this all possible? Capitalism. Export revenue profits are the absolute driving force behind the Russian arms industry. Essentially, they want to make it so that attacking other nations prohibitively expensive while making a profit.

For all the complaining people do about the cost of the Iraq war, that is nothing compared to what it would have been had the US lost numerous fighers, bombers and AWACs to Russian technology that could have been made available to them at the time. The combat "victory" in Iraq was in turn of fact, a diplomatic victory on the part of the US getting Russia to agree to continuously escalating weapons embargoes against Iraq since desert storm.

I dunno, I guess we'll just have to see where this crazy ride takes us...


RE: A Lost Cause
By Chillin1248 on 2/19/2010 4:43:44 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
You can't create a V/STOL F-22 (or PAK-FA); the F-35 has a V/STOL variant.


The PAK-FA is already STOL capable.

quote:
You can't load the F-22 with a crapload of bombs - it's strictly air-superiority (with some in-board capacity); F-35 is meant to be a strike fighter (you know, the SF in JSF. . . :D )


1) F-22A carries twice as many Air-to-Air missiles as the F-35A

2) In combat, the F-22A is flown at almost twice the altitude and twice the speed of the F-35A. This increases the range of the F-22A's Air-to-Air missiles by almost 40 percent, increasing lethality, while it doubles the range of guided bombs like the JDAM.

3) The higher speed of the F-22A vs the F-35A allows it to control twice the area, when targets are mobile and time sensitive. In such situations, a single F-22A can do the same work as two F-35As.

4) F-22A provides around three times more capability than the F-35A, yet costs only around 23% more per unit.

5) The F-22 internal payload is six AIM-120 AMRAAM and two AIM-9 for Air to Air operations or two AIM-120 and two AIM-9 plus two JDAM or eight Small Diameter Bomb for Strike operations. The F-35A in Air to Air operations carries only four AIM-120 AMRAAM, and in Strike operations, only two, for an identical number of JDAM or Small Diameter Bomb rounds .

http://www.ausairpower.net/JSF-vs-FA-22-Chart.gif

See how much better bang for the buck we can get out of the F-22 instead of the F-35:

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-110409-1.html

-------
Chillin


RE: A Lost Cause
By crystal clear on 2/20/2010 3:39:13 AM , Rating: 2
You dont buy a plane based on its abilities/capabilites on PAPER or whats posted on the internet.

All those claims of "what it does/can do" are purely promotional - good for the sales/marketing dept.

All those have to be TESTED & proven in real time conditons/situations.

quote:
In combat, the F-22A is flown at almost twice the altitude and twice the speed of the F-35A.


Which Combat ??????.....under controlled simultated conditons maybe ? not convincing indeed-where everything/action/etc is predetermined.

That brings you all to the point I quoted-

Russian planes have yet to prove themselves worthy in modern warfare in recent years.



Now to the next point I quoted-

The Russian stuff with their shoddy workmanship,is good enough for Arab countries to show it off in grand military parades .


Yes shoddy/poor workmanship ! Russian planes have in the past been severely criticized for many a long list of defects.

To quote a few-

From crack developing on the plane's body flying at high speeds to canopy opening up whilst flying at high speeds (instantly killing the pilot & loss of the plane),to engine failure whilst flying at high speeds (not at air shows or exibhitions) crashing the plane.

When it comes to unreliablity in air whilst flying ofcourse, Russian planes top the list.

quote:
See how much better bang for the buck we can get out of the F-22


Read one of my previous comments-

True to the Russian tradition, when it comes aircraft (designed & manufactured) of any type over the last 40 years,another model best graded as-

Defective by design

add to this shody/poor workmanship makes it a plane ready for a crash.

Nothing to get excited about this plane-good for countries like Iran/Syria/N Korea/Libya/etc who normally wont have access to Western technology.

The plane will sell well in these countries & Russia can recover all its development cost.

In addition can develop/refine all their design & manufacturing flaws & weakness by seeing & investigating their planes crashing, flown by these countries.

Good financial model !

Russians dont develop much of their technology rather steal from major aircraft manufacturers in the west,thats what their KGB does on a daily basis.

A package of stolen technologies/processes assembled together to get a plane into the air.

http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=17552...

Made in Russia is "A Lost Cause".


RE: A Lost Cause
By Chillin1248 on 2/20/2010 4:41:31 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Which Combat ??????.....under controlled simultated conditons maybe ? not convincing indeed-where everything/action/etc is predetermined.


In testing and combat excercises, which is much more than the F-35 can say for itself.

Your latter paragraphs quote the F-22 but talk about Russian equipment... The F-22 is still the better buy compared to the F-22. And the navy already has the F-18F which has a low RCS from the frontal area, just like the JSF. Keep in mind that the JSF is only stealthy in the front, the rear, sides and bottom are not.

Also for all your Anti-Russian slander, I would check up on the Indian SU-30MKi's and how they fared against the F-15s.

-------
Chillin

------


RE: A Lost Cause
By crystal clear on 2/20/2010 5:53:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I would check up on the Indian SU-30MKi's and how they fared against the F-15s.


Sometime around 2 months ago the Israeli channel 2 had a footage about the IAF (recorded ofcourse) testing (simulated combat)- a latest Russian fighter plane (dont remember the model) against the Israeli Fs , both planes flown by Israeli pilots.

The Russian plane was recieved by Israel on loan from a friendly country for the express purposes of testing (combat) its performance against the front line models the Israelis use on a daily basis.

The Russian plane was outclassed in all aspects of air combat.

I wish I could track down the footage on You tube to provide the link.

quote:
Keep in mind that the JSF is only stealthy in the front, the rear, sides and bottom are not.


Read this plus the full report-

DOD states that the F-35 program “was structured from the beginning to be a model of
acquisition reform, with an emphasis on jointness, technology maturation and concept
demonstrations, and early cost and performance trades integral to the weapon system
requirements definition process
.”3

All three versions of the F-35 will be single-seat aircraft with supersonic dash capability and
some degree of stealth . The three versions will vary somewhat in their combat ranges and
payloads (see the Appendix B).
All three are to carry their primary weapons internally to
maintain a stealthy radar signature. Additional weapons can be carried externally on missions
requiring less stealth.


http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL30563.pdf


RE: A Lost Cause
By Chillin1248 on 2/20/2010 8:10:07 AM , Rating: 3
It was a MiG-29, which to be honest is not competition for the F-15's. It is what the Syrian Air Force has so therefore it was tested.

However the SU-30/35 are a completely different class of aircraft which offers increased competition against the F-15.
=================
From the Report:

The Air Force states that:
The F-35 program will develop and deploy a family of highly capable, affordable, fifth
generation strike fighter aircraft to meet the operational needs of the Air Force, Navy,
Marine Corps, and Allies with optimum commonality to minimize life cycle costs. The F-35
was designed from the bottom-up to be our premier surface-to-air missile killer and is
uniquely equipped for this mission with cutting edge processing power, synthetic aperture
radar integration techniques, and advanced target recognition. The F-35 also provides “leap
ahead” capabilities in its resistance to jamming, maintainability, and logistic support.4


This statement kind of dumbfounds me, considering the F-35 is not stealthy from all angles except the front. So going against an Intergrated Air Defense Network is near suicide for the F-35 as the will be seen by such system as the S-300/400.

Also:
Fifth-generation aircraft incorporate the most modern technology, and are considered to be generally more capable
than earlier-generation (e.g., 4th-generation and below) aircraft. Fifth-generation fighters combine new developments
such as thrust vectoring, composite materials, supercruise (the ability to cruise at supersonic speeds without using
engine afterburners), stealth technology, advanced radar and sensors, and integrated avionics to greatly improve pilot situational awareness.


From my understanding of this statement, the JSF would only qualify as a 4.5 Generation fighter. As it is very much lacking the:

1)- Supercruise
2)- Thrust Vectoring
3)- Stealth - The Airplane is only stealthy from the front.

-------
Chillin


RE: A Lost Cause
By crystal clear on 2/20/2010 9:21:48 AM , Rating: 1
Its chilling to compare the report to the realities of today, what a waste of funds & gross mismanagement by those involved.
That led me to post a seperate comment earlier "scrap it" & conclude -

"This JSF program is a failure !......"

Anyway it was nice discussing with you !

Found the link-
Israeli air force MIG 29 exposed (601 squadron)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJYAOY_lpAY&feature...


RE: A Lost Cause
By Amiga500 on 2/20/2010 7:25:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yes shoddy/poor workmanship ! Russian planes have in the past been severely criticized for many a long list of defects.

To quote a few-

From crack developing on the plane's body flying at high speeds to canopy opening up whilst flying at high speeds (instantly killing the pilot & loss of the plane),to engine failure whilst flying at high speeds (not at air shows or exibhitions) crashing the plane.


Now, now.

Everyone has problems. The Russians more than most due to their lack of maintenance funds over the last 20 years!

However, as you should know, the eagles were grounded for quite some time there due to longeron fatigue issues... which caused a few deaths.

Read this:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/aging-aircraft...

All aircraft are only as good as the maintenance they get... and even then, father time stops for no-one, or nothing.


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