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Unmanned frigates would stalk enemy submarines continuously with no crew onboard

The U.S. military has made no secret of its vision to field an ever increasing number of automated and unmanned vehicles onto the battlefield. The use of these vehicles reduces the risk to human life and without a human aboard the vehicle, the design can be better optimized for the mission.

The military has used unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) for as long time for long-range recon and for attacking ground targets. The UAVs allow surveillance missions to last longer and UAVs can also be made smaller than aircraft that require a human pilot onboard. The U.S. military is also looking to field robotic soldiers to replace human soldiers in areas of high conflict. Robots are already used in the military for searching out bombs and infiltrating tight quarters where the danger is too high for a human.

Unmanned vehicles may soon come to the oceans of the world as well thanks to a new DARPA project that will introduce unmanned frigates for long missions that closely and overtly shadow enemy diesel-electric submarines. The vessels are dubbed Anti-Submarine Warfare Continuous Trail Unmanned Vessels or ACTUVs.

The program is detailed in a long document from DARPA that outlines an industry day conference that is unclassified and set to be held on February 16, 2010 in Arlington, Virginia. The purpose of the program is to build an "X-ship" that is capable of operating without any human on board at any point in its operations cycle. The program is also seeking to demonstrate how viable a system under "sparse remote supervisory control" will be. A final goal of the program is to demonstrate the anti-submarine capability of the vessel along with a suite of sensors for the craft. The ship is designed for global independent deployment for months at a time with no human interaction onboard.

The DARPA ACTUV industry day paper [PDF] points out that the unmanned craft are intended to be launched and recovered from manned ships and teleoperated from manned ships and will be limited to direct support of manned missions. A key to the program is a demonstration that the unmanned vehicle can navigate safely at sea within the framework of maritime law and International Regulations for Avoiding Collisions at Sea.

The program is also expected to allow naval architects to revise the design of surface craft offered by the ability to eliminate all crew concession from the ship design. DARPA reports that the design may have relaxed reserve buoyancy margins, dynamic stability limits, and new platform orientation assumptions. Basically, the program will allow ship designers to remove all performance and design constraints placed on a surface vessel that has to carry human occupants. The platform must have a sufficient range for theater or global deployment and a speed, endurance, and maneuverability advantage over its target set. The design must also be able to tolerate rough seas effectively and be capable of near-term transition to operational employment.

DARPA will conduct the program in four phases. Phase one will be a concept exploration, system architecture studies, system concept design, and preliminary performance evaluations. Multiple awards will be given to participants ranging from $500,000 for concept studies or limited architecture to $2,000,000 for a full system concept design and operations analysis.

Phase two of the program is anticipated to fund one award through Critical Design Review and have a duration of 18 months. Phase three will be to build an integrated prototype vessel and conduct initial sea trials and is expected to have a duration of 18 months. Phase 3 will be awarded as a firm-fixed-price option. Phase four will be to conduct mission-oriented sea trials and experiments. The final phase will be followed by full transition of subsequent test and acquisition activity to the Navy.



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What a waste of Money....
By AEvangel on 2/10/2010 2:20:31 PM , Rating: -1
Yeah we need this cause we have to keep track of all those "Rogue" states that want to attack us with their Submarines....oh wait none of those people have any type of deep-water navy.




RE: What a waste of Money....
By Ammohunt on 2/10/2010 3:04:14 PM , Rating: 1
we(The West) should make every effort to keep it that way.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By porkpie on 2/10/2010 3:46:42 PM , Rating: 5
"....oh wait none of those people have any type of deep-water navy. "

Learn a little. Iran has three Russian-built Kilo-class subs, as well as a substantial number of smaller domestically-built subs. North Korea builds a large number of small and medium-sized submarines. They also have at least 12 Soviet-built diesel-electric submarines.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By AEvangel on 2/10/10, Rating: -1
RE: What a waste of Money....
By porkpie on 2/10/2010 4:01:13 PM , Rating: 5
God, the ignorance abounds today. Iran is much more powerful than Afghanistan, and that didn't stop them from sponsoring terrorist attacks on the US, did it?

Will Iranian subs sail into New York harbor this Christmas? No. Does your little pea-brain not see any other way they could threaten us?

Hint...look up how much of the world's oil trade goes through the Strait of Hormuz. Hint #2: See what threats Iran has already publicly made in this regard.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By AEvangel on 2/10/10, Rating: -1
RE: What a waste of Money....
By porkpie on 2/10/2010 7:08:39 PM , Rating: 2
You're 0 for 3. I don't recall Germany or the state of Florida not only "letting al Qaeda in", but actually protecting them, financing them, and intentionally and openly picking top al Qaeda members as ministers of government.

Do you seriously not know the history of al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan? Al Qaeda was a defacto military branch of the Taliban, with between 100 to 150 training camps scattered across the country, financed with both Taliban and al Qaeda funds, and turning out not only terrorists for foreign attacks, but group troops for the Taliban military.

Seriously, you couldn't have something more stupid had you been paid too.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By porkpie on 2/10/2010 7:43:33 PM , Rating: 2
edit: group troops = ground troops.

And scratch the last line of my post...that was uncalled for. My apologies.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By whiskerwill on 2/10/2010 4:06:22 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
since Iran is about as much as a threat to us as Australia is.
Nice way to move the goalposts. You first say they have no deep-water navy, then when contradicted, you say its no threat?

You seriously might want to listen to some of Ahmadinejad's speeches sometime if you think they're no more threat than Australia.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 2/10/2010 4:27:57 PM , Rating: 4
Don't forget this could be used to interdict Central and South American drug subs (seriously.)

The upshot is that it is much cheaper and safer to spread a net of these around a carrier or other naval group than a similar manned fleet. Plus these could use active sonar as needed without threat to the surface fleet. Plus they are smaller targets.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By Yames on 2/10/2010 6:01:53 PM , Rating: 3
I could see hundreds of these spread out in a sonar net. Now that would be intimidating.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By AEvangel on 2/10/10, Rating: -1
RE: What a waste of Money....
By porkpie on 2/10/2010 7:01:26 PM , Rating: 2
"Actually, I knew that Iran had the subs..."

Ah, nice recovery. Think anyone will buy it?

"...but I don't even remotely consider them a rogue state"

If you don't consider Iran or North Korea rogue states, who do you?


RE: What a waste of Money....
By Chillin1248 on 2/10/2010 7:47:05 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Also they have not sponsored any terrorist attacks against this country that I'm aware that were even remotely proven to be true by any third party with out something to gain by proving it.


On 18 April 1988, the U.S. Navy waged a one-day battle against Iranian forces in and around the strait. The battle, dubbed Operation Praying Mantis by the U.S. side, was launched in retaliation for the 14 April mining of the USS Samuel B. Roberts (FFG-58). U.S. forces sank two Iranian warships, Joshan and as many as six armed speedboats in the engagement.

Hezbollah - An Iranian sponsered terrorist group:

July 19, 1982: The president of the American University in Beirut, Davis S. Dodge, is kidnapped. Hezbollah is believed to be behind this and most of the other 30 Westerners kidnapped over the next ten years.

April 18, 1983: Hezbollah attacks the U.S. embassy in Beirut with a car bomb, killing 63 people, 17 of whom were American citizens.

Oct. 23, 1983: The group attacks U.S. Marine barracks with a truck bomb, killing 241 American military personnel stationed in Beirut as part of a peace-keeping force. A separate attack against the French military compound in Beirut kills 58.

Sept. 20, 1984: The group attacks the U.S. embassy annex in Beirut with a car bomb, killing 2 Americans and 22 others.

March 16, 1984: William F. Buckley, a CIA operative working at the U.S. embassy in Beirut, is kidnapped and later murdered.

April 12, 1984: Hezbollah attacks a restaurant near the U.S. Air Force Base in Torrejon, Spain. The bombing kills eighteen U.S. servicemen and injures 83 people.

Dec. 4, 1984: Hezbollah terrorists hijack a Kuwait Airlines plane. Four passengers are murdered, including two Americans.

Feb. 16, 1985: Hezbollah publicizes its manifesto. It notes that the group's struggle will continue until Israel is destroyed and rejects any cease-fire or peace treaty with Israel. The document also attacks the U.S. and France.

June 14, 1985: Hezbollah terrorists hijack TWA flight 847. The hijackers severely beat Passenger Robert Stethem, a U.S. Navy diver, before killing him and dumping his body onto the tarmac at the Beirut airport. Other passengers are held as hostages before being released on June 30.

Feb. 17, 1988: The group kidnaps Col. William Higgins, a U.S. Marine serving with a United Nations truce monitoring group in Lebanon, and later murders him.

October 1997: The United States lists Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.

I hope that clarifies any doubts of Iranian sponsored attacks against the U.S..

-------
Chillin


RE: What a waste of Money....
By porkpie on 2/10/2010 8:04:05 PM , Rating: 2
Good post. Don't forget the bombing of Khobar Towers, an attack that killed 19 US citizens, or the fact that the majority of the bombs and other munitions currently killing US troops in Iraq are produced in Iran, and exported with the full support of the Iranian government.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By karielash on 2/11/10, Rating: 0
RE: What a waste of Money....
By porkpie on 2/11/2010 1:04:02 AM , Rating: 3
Get your facts straight. I hardly know where to begin the laundry list of corrections, but here's a good start:

The "democratically elected government" was PM Mosaddegh, a man originally appointed PM by the Shah himself. The "American and British led coup" consisted of convincing the Shah to use his powers to dismiss Mossaddegh, advice to which the Shah finally agreed. Still, Mossadesgh would have likely been able to retain power, had not his increasingly dictatorial style alienated the Ayatollahs and other influential Iranian elements that originally supported him.

To clear up other misconceptions, the young Shah at the time was far from a "brutal dictator". Even decades later, near the end of his regime, Pahlavi didn't even come close to the horrors that Saddam Hossein engaged in. Pahlavi's secret police (SAVAK) are accused of killing anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand political prisoners, depending on who you ask. Hossein killed more than a hundred times as many people...and invented new methods of torture in doing so.

And, of course, the entire point is moot because none of this was going on when the West originally supported the Shah. Your objection is rather like criticising the FBI for not arresting the Son of Sam while he was still in grade school, decades before he ever killed anyone.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By karielash on 2/11/10, Rating: -1
RE: What a waste of Money....
By porkpie on 2/11/2010 11:10:53 AM , Rating: 3
I see your grasp of Iranian history is as weak as your Soviet-Japanese. The facts here are clear: the Shah of Iran was not put in power by the West. The House of Pahlevi ruled Iran since just after WWI, when the last Shah's father led a coup. A coup the West had nothing whatsoever do to with. Period.

quote:
which sought to undermine and overthrow the government of Iran, the Shah signed two decrees, one removing Mosaddegh and one nominating the CIA choice of successor for Prime Minister and then fled the country.
Rofl, a direct quote from Wikipedia. Son, you can't learn about history from reading text written by Joe Schmuck off the street. That Wiki article is peppered with flaws, distortions, neutrality disputes, "citation needed" tags, and a hundred other problems. Even more amusingly, the article doesn't even support your primary claim, that the West put the Shah in power. It did not.

I could get into some of Mosaddegh's more egregious abuses while he was PM, such as attempting to rig an election by cancelling voting early, after pro-Mosaddegh regions had voted, and using gangs of armed thugs to beat away voters in other areas -- but this is all irrelevant. The US and Britain didn't put the Shah in power, and they didn't take Mosaddegh out. They had a hand in influencing the Shah's decision to oust Mosaddegh, but that's the very basis of diplomacy: the convince other nations to do something you wish them to. Absolutely nothing wrong with it...and had Mosaddegh not acted like a dictorial ass the brief time he was PM, and alienated most of the Iranian Parliament, he never would have gotten thrown out anyway.

Care to try again?


RE: What a waste of Money....
By karielash on 2/11/10, Rating: 0
RE: What a waste of Money....
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 2/11/2010 3:40:49 PM , Rating: 3
You must live in Iran. No one that can get real facts would actually believe your view of history unless brain washed to believe facts are incorrect... I mean Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is trying to get people to believe the holocaust was a made up story. As if no jews were harmed during World War II.

" funnily enough, didn't like being murdered much and turned to one of the few forces that could still provide a united opposition to the Shah's rule... the Islamic religion."

If they did not like murder so much then why did they turn to the most violent religion on this planet?
Facts are simple the people of Iran let the leaders of Iran be in power. You have a handful of people protesting the current leadership but like most Islamic people I know, if you do not like something or someone they call them false, say they are out of their minds, call them liars, then when know is look they will kill the protesters or whoever else is bothering them, then pretend that person never existed.

If Iran wants to be out of the Rogue country classification they just need to do one thing and a difficult thing at that too. That is to put on their big boy pants and regain control of their own country from the crazy people who are currently running their country. The best way to start this process is to look into a mirror and say, "I am responsible for the condition of my country, no other country, no other people, just me, my friend, my neighbors, and everyone else living in this country for let it be in it's current state."


RE: What a waste of Money....
By karielash on 2/11/2010 9:52:01 PM , Rating: 1
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/#docu...

Plans release of operation Ajax by... the US Government. Nobody would believe my view of history.

No what you mean is No right wing mindless wanker like you could believe it. You are so wrapped up in your neo-nationalism that you refuse to except responsibility for what your country (and mine) did. The plans were released under the US Freedom of Information Act after the US courts forced the CAI and US Government to come clean. They basically make a mockery of everything you say.

Islam is the most violent religion on earth eh.... lol.. maybe you should look at the history of the Christian church. They are all the same...


RE: What a waste of Money....
By porkpie on 2/11/2010 10:05:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Nobody would believe my view of history.
You're right!

Ironically enough, your own link proves everything I've said. The Shah was already in power long before this plan went into effect, so where do you get the crazy idea that the US and Britain installed him?

It also clearly states that this "evil CIA plot" consisted of doing nothing but convincing the Shah, and a few other members of parliament that dismissing Mossaddegh would be a good idea. Other than these diplomatic talks, and some minor actions like printing up some handbills, nothing else was done.

I particularly enjoyed reading this bit, about the tens of thousands of pro-Shah demonstrators, taking to the streets, happy to see Mossaddegh go, and cheering for the Shah:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/8-Ori...

Another proof of my earlier remarks...the Shah was (at the time) a popular, and quite moderate ruler. His despotic side didn't begin to show until decades later.

Again, thanks for the link and the confirmation of all my earlier remarks.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By karielash on 2/11/10, Rating: 0
RE: What a waste of Money....
By porkpie on 2/11/2010 10:30:10 PM , Rating: 2
"Those Demo's against the Shah were financed by the CIA.."

Ah, it was all the CIA, eh? Let me quote from your own link:

quote:
The news the paper carried of [the Shah's victory] was undoubtably flashed through the city by word of mouth, for before 9:00am, pro-Shah groups were assembling in the bazaar area. Members of these groups had not only made their personal choice between Mossadeq and the Shah, but were stirred up and ready to move...

By 10:15, there were pro-Shah truckloads of military personnel in all the main squares... the really large groups, armed with sticks and stones, came from south Tehran and merged as they [progressed] to the center of the city. The [Mossadeq troops] fired hundreds of shots over the heads of the crowd, but apparently were not willing to fire at these partisans of the Shah...

The surging crowds of men, women, and children wree shouting "Shah Piruz Ast!", (The Shah is Victorious)... A gay holiday atmosphere prevailed, and it was as if exterior pressures had been released so the true sentiments of the people showed through. The crowds included people of all classes -- many well dressed, led or encouraged by other civilians. Trucks and busloads of cheering civilians streamed by [and] about noon, five tanks and 20 truckloads of soldiers joined in...

As usual, word spread like lightning and in other parts of the city, pictures of the Shah were eagerly displayed. Cars went by with headlights burning as tangible indication of loyalty to the ruler...
Sorry kid, I know how desperately you wish to pin something-- ANYTHING bad on the US, but it just don't stick. Facts are facts.

BTW, I'm still waiting to hear how you blame us for putting the Shah in power, when he (and before him, his father) was ruling Iran for decades before we even arrived.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By karielash on 2/12/2010 3:52:24 AM , Rating: 2

Retard Troll.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By jstall on 2/12/2010 1:01:32 AM , Rating: 2

Why are you arguing with this guy?

All you have to do is go and look up a few other posts on other threads to see what he is!!!

Seriously, you are as bad as he is.


RE: What a waste of Money....
By Danish1 on 2/12/2010 5:46:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Islam is the most violent religion on earth eh.... lol.. maybe you should look at the history of the Christian church. They are all the same...


Why do so many muslims think history is an excuse for current violent behaviour?

It's a fact islam violently conflicts with any other religion it borders, be that christianity, hinduism, whatever the chinese are practicing, you name it and the scary part about it is that most muslims try to legitimate it rather than condemning it and trying to end it.


By Seemonkeyscanfly on 2/12/2010 9:59:08 AM , Rating: 2
"Islam is the most violent religion on earth eh.... lol.. maybe you should look at the history of the Christian church. They are all the same..."

I do know the history of the Christian church... much better then you do, just like you should know Islam history better then I. One thing is for sure, Islam is more violent. Even the Crusades of the dark ages (middle ages) was because of invading Islam people - violently attacking Christian and Jews in the middle east. Christian from Europe were asked to come and help defend the "Holy Land" from the invading Islam forces. If Islam was not so aggressive and violent there would have been no crusades.


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