Print 65 comment(s) - last by Spuke.. on Jan 29 at 1:31 PM

2010 Honda Insight

Honda CR-Z

2010 Toyota Prius
Honda still can't find the magic recipe to beat the Prius

When it comes to hybrid vehicles, it appears that Honda just can't catch a break. Its first generation Insight hybrid was the first such vehicle to hit American soil a decade ago, however, the vehicle was a sales failure. Honda went on to develop a Civic Hybrid which hasn't exactly been a Prius competitor in terms of sales and the company's Accord Hybrid, like the Insight before it, failed in the marketplace.

Honda looked to go after Toyota's Prius again with a larger, second generation Insight. However, Honda again ran into a brick wall. Honda managed to undercut the Prius by a few thousand dollars, but also did so with a much smaller vehicle that was not as fast, not as tech-laden, and not nearly as fuel efficient as the third-generation Prius. When it comes to actual vehicle sales, the numbers don't lie. Honda sold roughly 20,500 Insights during 2009 in the U.S. -- Toyota, on the other hand, sold nearly 140,000 Prius hybrids.

"Are we happy with how sales are going? No, we're not happy," said American Honda executive VP John Mendel.

Faced with the prospect of another dud in the hybrid marketplace, Honda chief Takanobu Ito is calling on his engineers to develop a vehicle that will "Out Prius" the Prius according to Automotive News. Ito wants a hybrid that will be able to exceed the stellar fuel economy ratings of Toyota's crown jewel. Toyota's Prius is rated at 50 mpg (city/highway combined) while the smaller Insight is rated at just 41 mpg (city/highway combined).

"We want to develop and expand our hybrids," said Ito earlier this month in Detroit. "We made some major sacrifices to shift people and resources to do that."

While Honda looks like it will have its hands full developing a vehicle to topple the Prius, it has also just launched a new "sporty" hybrid aimed at enthusiasts. The CR-Z can be had with a manual transmission, but fuel economy junkies should be warned -- choosing to the manual will result in a serious hit to city fuel economy. A CR-Z equipped with a continuously variable transmission (CVT) will be rated at 36/38 mpg (city/highway). Opting for the six-speed manual transmission, however, will cut those numbers to 31/37 mpg.

For comparison, a Mini Cooper (six-speed manual) gets 28/37 mpg without the need for hybrid components.

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RE: How about...
By Iaiken on 1/25/2010 3:11:26 PM , Rating: 2
Way to cherry pick your numbers. :P

The 6.2 second 0-60 on both and Motor Trend are both manufacturers estimates .

The 2009 JCW Clubman as tested by Motor Trend was ripping along in 5.7 and it's the exact same power plant in a 400lb heavier car.

The generally accepted stock 2009 JCW 0-60 run time from Alta and M7 Tuning is 5.1-5.2 seconds.

Next time try to understand what you read...

Even my old 06 factory JCW was hitting the 5.4 mark.

Finally, there are different JCW's... Factory JCW and the Cooper S JCW upgrade.
The JCW upgrade offers about 10hp less and 12ftlbs fewer than the Factory JCW. The factory car also includes the JCW aero kit, JCW suspenssion, JCW by Brembo brakes and the light weight JCW challenge wheels which have to be purchased separately on the Cooper S upgrade.

The presence or absence of the panoramic moon roof (400lbs of glass and metal and reinforcements) can also mess with the 0-60 times.

I'll buy that the TCS and DSC cannot be totally disabled, my Minis DSC has 3 modes (On, light & off) and you have to hold down the DSC toggle while you are starting the car to actually turn it all the way off.

RE: How about...
By Spuke on 1/29/2010 12:26:11 PM , Rating: 2
All stats from Car and Driver. Trying to make it as close to apples/apples comparison as possible.

2004 Honda S2000
0-60: 5.4 sec
1/4: 14.1@97mph

2004 Mini Cooper S JCW
0-60: 6.4 sec
1/4: 14.7@95mph

You really should compare similar model year cars but I'll throw in some other Coopers and S2000's for sh!ts and giggles.

2006 Mini Cooper S John Cooper Works GP
0-60: 5.9 sec
1/4: 14.5@98mph

2008 Honda S2000 CR
0-60: 5.7 sec
1/4: 14.4@99mph

2009 Mini Cooper S JCW Convertible
0-60: 6.3 sec
1/4: 14.9@96mph

The cars can be close depending on the models chosen. The Mini's problem seems to be off the line traction most likely because of FWD weight transfer. Regardless, the S2000 won't run away from a Cooper S.

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