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Hydrogen vehicles aren't too eco-friendly in terms of carbon emissions, according to an in-depth new study.  (Source: Web Wombat)
Study indicates plug-ins feature a lower emissions life than gas vehicles, but hydrogen vehicles feature greater emissions

The hydrogen vehicle movement appears stalled.  The push to use the diatomic gas as auto fuel never exactly made it off the ground due to a lack of infrastructure -- production, distribution, and storage facilities.  However, for a time automakers like Toyota and Honda were pushing ahead with testing of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. 

Even this year, news leaked that GM was considering launching a commercial fuel cell vehicle in 2015, despite lack of support for the hydrogen movement from U.S. President Barack Obama.  However, of late, the big automakers like Toyota and Honda have backed off the effort to push hydrogen vehicles onto the market.

A new study might put another road block in front of the prospect of a near term commercial hydrogen vehicle release, while giving the plug-in vehicle movement a nice boost.  The study was authored by Ryan McCarthy at the University of California, Davis and published in the Journal of Power Sources. The ground-breaking study, entitled "Determining marginal electricity for near-term plug-in and fuel cell vehicle demands in California: Impacts on vehicle greenhouse gas emissions", examines the emissions impact of hydrogen and plug-in vehicles versus their gas counterparts.

Lowering carbon emissions to fight warming, along with high fuel prices and global-political instability, has been a key driving factor for the adoption of hybrids and alternative fuels.  The new study, though, judged hydrogen vehicles to be an utter failure at that objective, in their current state.  The study concluded, "All of the pathways except for [fuel cell vehicles] using hydrogen from electrolysis reduce [greenhouse gas] emissions compared to ICEs and [hybrid electric vehicles]."

It doesn't dissuade further research into hydrogen vehicles; it simply indicates they are unlikely to be ready for showtime anytime soon.  It points out that steam methane reforming is a promising emerging method of hydrogen production that may one day allow hydrogen driven vehicles to actually live up to their emissions promises.

In the near term, the study finds that plug-in electric vehicles are the best option in terms of lowering carbon emissions.  Despite using electricity mostly generated by "relatively inefficient steam- and combustion-turbine plants" the well-to-wheel carbon impact of EVs is still significantly lower than hybrids.

While by no means the definitive study on the topic, the new work does much to fill in the gap in knowledge about what exactly the true impact of green vehicles are.  While the topic of on-the-road emissions has been well researched, there's been much less progress in examining the full lifetime impact of vehicles.  Now, that lifecycle has been examined in depth and EV advocates can put another feather in their caps, while hydrogen advocates are once again handed another setback.

The study may play a crucial role in forming the policy of California's Low Carbon Fuel Standard, an effort to reduce the carbon impact of transportation.  And given that President Barack Obama's Environmental Protection Agency has embraced California's emissions policy, the new study could have a profound impact on the course of regulations and the auto market nationally, as well.



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RE: I might care
By drank12quartsstrohsbeer on 1/1/2010 3:09:41 PM , Rating: 5
If data is collected poorly, then it is not good data.

This isn't the site I was trying to find, but it does have some pictures of why the data taken from ground based weather stations may not be collected properly:

http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/weather_stations/


RE: I might care
By roostitup on 1/1/10, Rating: -1
RE: I might care
By roostitup on 1/1/2010 3:27:46 PM , Rating: 2
I would also recommend not citing blogs, anyone can write them and there is absolutely NO scientific backing of their opinions. Jason Mick proves this is 75% of his blogs that he would love to think are actual journalism which are biased.


RE: I might care
By heffeque on 1/3/10, Rating: 0
RE: I might care
By Kurz on 1/3/2010 7:59:47 PM , Rating: 4
I bet you think Capitalism is Evil.

The Irony is that Capitalism is probably the only reason you and me and majority of the world is alive right now. Capitalism funded advancement of Technology and made it possible to have our current population.

Don't forget Capitalism brought the internet.

What this Global warming scam will do is decrease our growth of advances. Increase costs up and down the social classes. Impoverished people will get hit the most.
Why I say this is based the fact the only way to make a dent in CO2 is to tax dirty technology.

When the CRU is manipulating data and lots of pseudo science is going on its hard to say Global warming is happening because of our influence.

Whenever something questionable is going on I always look at the flow of money. From what I can tell there is more money to earn if people support taxing and using Credit Carbon Credits. The energy industries present have diversified in case the market goes either way. (Gas companies own lots of battery tech, Solar, Bio,) The only ones who stand to gain a lot of money are those advocating Global warming caused by Humans.


RE: I might care
By roostitup on 1/3/10, Rating: 0
RE: I might care
By Kurz on 1/4/2010 1:23:39 AM , Rating: 4
The green movement didn't really start the research of alternatives. Its based around money. When fossil fuels got more expensive it started to become economical to research alternatives. Since everyone is looking for alternatives to the unstable Commodity that is Fossil Fuel.

There is a notion of buying green things since its better for the environment if people have the income go ahead and buy it if it makes you feel better. Most Hybrid Owners don't give a crap about Conservation its about the Image of driving the car. The image about being green and the Snobbish attitude.

I personally get Hybrid mileage by changing the way I drive (Always get 30 Mpg to 36 mpg in my Rav4 2005 Depending on the Temperature). I do it for cost reasons and longevity of my vehicle its saved me 600 dollars over a year of time.

I Have no issue at all with alternatives as long as they are viable and the Technology is sound. I really want an Electric car, and solar panels. I want the tech, but I have no notion of saving the planet. I am worried about instability of the supply and cost. And the ability to make my own energy for me and my family is a good investment.

Oh BTW my whole previous post started with "Rich people" comment. I played on an assumption he made about Rich people. Rich people don't care as long as they are making money on their investment be it a Business or Equities.
Just don't tax them to death or they'll raise prices to maintain their margin to remain competitive.

I care more about the Middle to Lower class than you probably think. And please don't assume everyone has this Saintly Attitude towards the planet. When it comes down to cost people will choose the most economical route for them.


RE: I might care
By ipay on 1/4/10, Rating: -1
RE: I might care
By Kurz on 1/4/2010 6:51:12 PM , Rating: 2
1. If you remember the 73 oil crisis then yes the price scare did happen a long time ago. And Jimmy carter put Solar panels on the White house in 79. Since then governments around the world did sponsor research into alternative energy. Though there since has been a growth in investments into these technologies, which sponsors into Alternative energy.

2. I didn't say anything was wrong about buying hybrid cars if you can afford it. I was stating an overwhelming truth about people who buy hybrids do so for the image of being green. There is no need to scare the public, the Car companies will sell you the image of being green to sell the car.

3. Alternative vehicles IE electric cars were played around with for Decades http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/electric-car-time... . If you watch who killed the electric car you'll get a good idea who killed it. Still demand was still there, but why advocate a green car when the rest of your line consists of huge SUV's and gas guzzlers. Car manufacturers have thin margins they have to make sure they make the best bet for their investors.

Without the advent of Fertilizers (Without this advance there is no way we could feed 6 billion people), Industrial Revolution, Machines, all of which flourished only because they had the freedom to. That is what Capitalism is, you have the chance to earn your keep and keep it and do what you want with it. At the same time you can help your fellow man gain his dream.

This is where you are economic illiterate. What you think those really rich people do with their money? I'll tell you what they do. THEY INVEST, THEY SPEND, THEY WILL NEVER LET THAT MONEY SIT STILL. Even if they keep it in a nice CD its still influencing the economy through loans. This my friend is how the economy keeps on its feet. Yes they do get richer and get poorer (When they make a bad bet), but investors keep the economy the way it is.

Without those untold trillions of dollars in investments you probably would not have your job today. You wouldn't have all these Spectacular advances in Technology. You wouldn't have amazing health care (Amazing that you'll live from many otherwise fatal diseases).

You need to either take Economics (Both Micro and Macro) or if you are "PAY ATTENTION IN THEM".

(Sorry for the caps I just can't believe what this guy said)


RE: I might care
By Leomania on 1/5/2010 4:59:23 PM , Rating: 2
Thanks for your well-written posts. Not everyone manages to keep their cool through that many exchanges.

One thing I'd like to comment on is:
quote:
2. I didn't say anything was wrong about buying hybrid cars if you can afford it. I was stating an overwhelming truth about people who buy hybrids do so for the image of being green. There is no need to scare the public, the Car companies will sell you the image of being green to sell the car.

The "overwhelming" part isn't valid, at least not among the people I know who own hybrids (myself included). I cared not one iota about image, and no one I know does either. In my case, I sold a car that got less than half the mileage of a hybrid that traveled 50 miles round trip each day, simply to reduce the amount of fossil fuel I used. My financial calculus indicated that I would be unlikely to recoup my investment even at $5/gallon (which it was not long after I bought the car), but I did it because I thought it was the right thing to do. My Prius is 2nd generation, so although I'm not truly an early adopter, that also fed into my decision. Same as it did when I put solar on my roof in 2002.

Yeah, it's nice to be in a position to have enough spare buckazoids to make a call like that; not everyone can. But prices on the solar have come down markedly since I bought, and I expect the same will occur for hybrid technology. In the end, I have met my fossil fuel reduction goals without any significant inconvenience and I have a car that has proven to be amazingly reliable. I fully expect to drive it to 200K miles.

But image had nothing to do with it.


RE: I might care
By Kurz on 1/6/2010 11:43:29 PM , Rating: 2
I wish I could edit the Overwhelming part to 'Significant'. I know quite a few people on Cleanmpg.com /Priuschat.com who don't drive a Hybrid for the image.

Still from Prius' I see on the road they tend to be jerks since most get a Hybrid for the HOV lane in Wash DC.
So I guess the HOV gave the Regular Joe an Excuse to jump on the Hybrid Bandwagon. Though at least they are paving the way for the Technology.

The Prius is not a Bad car in fact I would jump on it if it had a stick shift. Though if a nice sized Hybrid (Not the Insight Gen 1) would come out in a manual transmission I'll jump on it in a second. I think with the New CR-Z I might have to, I just wish it were a plug-in.

Sorry about bashing hybrids and their owners in general.
Not sure where I was going with that one.

But thank you for the Praise.


RE: I might care
By bigbubba on 1/5/2010 10:59:46 PM , Rating: 2
Kurz, you're brainwashed and full of your own shit along with everyone rating you up and the logical right thinking people down. This website, particularly readers of Mick's blogs are ignorant and will believe anything they hear. Journalism doesn't occur on DailyTech, biased opinions in the form of journalism do and you have to learn how to weed out the correct information, which you have not. Continue to sit in front of your computer and believe everything you hear, I'll get out and figure out what is really happening. DailyTech staff, quit censoring legitimate user comments by allowing these delusional people to rate others or even do away with the whole rating system, period! Kurz & Mick, you're both douche bags.


RE: I might care
By Kurz on 1/6/2010 11:50:08 PM , Rating: 2
If you can argue and give me reasons and Evidence I could believe you. I've come forward with facts/History and Economic theory.

Just remember one persons logic is not the same for someone else. Since two different people can logically based on their beliefs and Knowledge can come up with two opposing sides.

I believe now I know whats going on in the world.
It just took few years out of the Public school system to get my head straight.

I am still waiting for a response that is not Condescending and is actually trying to argue their point. To this point I have shot down many of you guy's posts by posting facts and truth. All you guys come at me with is Opinions.
Thats why I am getting Uprated, and thats why you guys are getting down rated.


RE: I might care
By Sandok on 1/4/2010 3:44:07 AM , Rating: 2
What if data is well collected? America might only be 300 years old or so, so the data doesn't go back a long way and since most people don't "believe" in ice cores (as if there is anything to believe), people become skeptical.

In my "old" country, temperatures have been recorded for over half a century and CO2 was recorded for about a quarter of that. All to say, there is a correlation (according to my country's scientists) in between CO2 and temperatures.

Warmest 10 days since the last 500 years? All in 2000+
Coldest 10 days since the last 500 years? All in 2000+
Wettest 10 days since the last 500 years? All in 2000+

Either Switzerland is messed up or something is going on...


RE: I might care
By nafhan on 1/4/2010 10:23:57 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
In my "old" country, temperatures have been recorded for over half a century and CO2 was recorded for about a quarter of that. All to say, there is a correlation (according to my country's scientists) in between CO2 and temperatures.

Warmest 10 days since the last 500 years? All in 2000+
Coldest 10 days since the last 500 years? All in 2000+
Wettest 10 days since the last 500 years? All in 2000+
You mention that temperatures have been recorded for 50 years, and then make assertions about the last 500 years. That actually seems fairly typical.


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