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Print 86 comment(s) - last by NewYork999.. on Nov 23 at 4:26 PM

Briton accused of hacking several government computer networks will not be extradited to the United States just yet

The British Home Affair Committee recently said Gary McKinnon, who faces serious jail time if extradited and found guilty of hacking several U.S. networks, should not be extradited due to the "precarious state of mental health."

The current U.S.-UK extradition treaty, according to critics, isn't fair for both American and British citizens, which caused the British government to closely evaluate McKinnon's current legal status. 

"As the home secretary told the Home Affairs Select Committee on Tuesday, the evidence that must be provided for a U.S. extradition request to proceed in the UK is in practice the same as for a UK request to proceed in the U.S.," a Home Office statement noted.  "The suggestion that the operation of the Extradition Act needs to be reviewed comprehensively is unnecessary."

McKinnon lost his last extradition appeal in August, and the possibility of extradition to the U.S. seemed even more probable.  The Briton was indicted in 2002 by a Virginia grand jury, with seven charges of computer-related offenses which could have led to a maximum of 70 years of prison.

Human rights activists and McKinnon's legal team argued McKinnon, who has a form of Asperger Syndrome, would face inhumane punishment if sent to the United States.  Prior to President Barack Obama's announcement to close Guantanamo Bay, it would have been possible McKinnon could have been sentenced there.



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Too bad
By Beenthere on 11/15/2009 8:14:02 PM , Rating: 2
That would really be too bad if McKinnon gets away with his crimes by claiming arsewipe syndrome... Considering he hacked 97 PCs and caused over $800,000 in damages, I'd like to see him spend the next 25 years in prison like any other scumbag criminal.




RE: Too bad
By BladeVenom on 11/15/2009 8:31:53 PM , Rating: 5
That's not nearly as bad as what Sony's rootkit did. How many people went to prison for that?


RE: Too bad
By Etsp on 11/15/2009 8:49:01 PM , Rating: 5
You must not be from around here... Sony has money. Not to mention the swarms of RIAA lobbyists in Washington... There was never a chance for someone to face jail-time for that.

This is American justice! People with money and influence don't go to jail, their jail-sentence just gets suspended and they pay fines and go home.


RE: Too bad
By Uncle on 11/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: Too bad
By Motley on 11/15/2009 9:25:33 PM , Rating: 2
"Right on, when the Americans sign the draft that the majority of the world has signed, about being held accountable for War crimes, I might shed a tear and show a sliver of respect, until then they can go forth and multiply themselves silly. World Cops my Ass."

When the europeans actually follow through on their agreements that they have signed, then I will show a sliver of respect. Until then, they can go sit and spin.


RE: Too bad
By dtm4trix on 11/16/2009 2:14:32 PM , Rating: 1
Ya ok bud.....thats why Eurpope let the genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo happen. It wasn't until the Americans had had enough that we put an end to it.... Fucking hypocrytical Europeans.


RE: Too bad
By Uncle on 11/16/2009 3:29:53 PM , Rating: 3
"Ya ok bud.....thats why Eurpope let the genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo happen.
quote:
It wasn't until the Americans had had enough that we put an end to it
.... Fucking hypocrytical Europeans.

What was the " Had had enough part " that motivated you.

My question would be " What took you so Fucking long "


RE: Too bad
By MamiyaOtaru on 11/16/2009 4:21:44 PM , Rating: 2
Whatever it was, it took you even longer. And we still took crap for actually doing something about it


RE: Too bad
By dtm4trix on 11/16/09, Rating: -1
RE: Too bad
By karielash on 11/16/2009 6:35:57 PM , Rating: 3
Were you born stupid or do you practice?


RE: Too bad
By dtm4trix on 11/16/2009 8:16:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Were you born stupid or do you practice?

This coming from a person who just insults someone other than responding intelligently right? pffft!!! Grow a pair and respond to what I said or STFU!


RE: Too bad
By karielash on 11/17/2009 12:18:34 AM , Rating: 1

Respond intelligently to that shit? Why bother? You said nothing of any value, and managed to include nothing factual or even coming close to reality.

Grow a pair????? your a joke. Go get an education.


RE: Too bad
By dtm4trix on 11/17/2009 1:50:00 AM , Rating: 1
Ya I don't know what I am talking about. But let me ask you, how old are you? 22, 23, maybe even 24? Which means you were between 7 and 9 years old which means you don't know shit. I was in Albania in 1999 and 2000. Don't tell me I don't know shit I've lived it you arrogant lil asshole.


RE: Too bad
By karielash on 11/17/2009 4:27:13 AM , Rating: 1
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/cabinet-backs-se...

Go fuck yourself. The USA REFUSED to put in ground troops until AFTER a peace treaty was in place.

You are a typical American Internet warrior.... been on the front line of the Cat 5 battle front.

The Bosnian war FINISHED in 1997 and troops were there after as peace keepers and reconstruction under NATO/IFOR banner. SO DONT make out your some sort of fucking hero for MISSING another war.


RE: Too bad
By dtm4trix on 11/17/2009 3:46:34 PM , Rating: 1
First of all bitch you don't know anything about me so you have no right to pass judgement on me you fucking tard. Ya I know when the Bosnian war ended, and if it wasn't for our air power going in doing what the fucking europeans refused to do, the war would have ended with all the bosnian muslims wiped off the map. You fucking europeans try to get on your high horse but never end up doing shit except lots of talking and pointing fingers.

Example:

Genocide in Bosnia
First World War
Second World War
Kosovo War
Czechoslovakia
Vietnam (has its roots caused by the french)

I am not saying that the US hasn't made its fair share of mistakes but, a lot of conflicts in the world have eurpean roots. European colonialism is at the root of a lot of the worlds problems in the early and mid part of the 20th century so don't go getting up on your high horse and claim the moral high ground on anything you fucking cock. Your since of history is astounding.

quote:
The USA REFUSED to put in ground troops


And like I said before why was Bosnia the US's responsibility? Who was it who let the Serbs walk right into Srebrenica? It was a fucking do nothing European problem and true to form what did they do? NOTHING! Par usual.


RE: Too bad
By karielash on 11/17/2009 5:27:02 PM , Rating: 2
You talk of arrogance, go back and read your posts.

We do not know anything about you? I am glad, you are everything the world despises in the USA, I am just glad you are part of a tiny bigoted minority of an otherwise fantastic people.

You cry about being judged and yet you judge the sacrifice a lot of other nations and people have made.

You are a nobody and a nothing, you lack virtually any understanding of anything outside your pants. I suggest you stick to playing with whats in them.


RE: Too bad
By dtm4trix on 11/17/2009 5:44:15 PM , Rating: 1
You think I am arrogant...you are the one judging my people..You know nothing of the US that you haven't read in the left wing newspapers you subscribe to. You insult people you know nothing about. I would just like to think that most Europeans are not as close minded as your sorry ass. And at least I have something inside my pants you fucking eunuch.


RE: Too bad
By karielash on 11/17/2009 7:40:01 PM , Rating: 2
No, I am Judging you, personally, you are a piece of crap on the sole of a great country.

You are a bigot and a fool.


RE: Too bad
By dtm4trix on 11/17/2009 11:57:32 PM , Rating: 1
I really don't think you know what the word "biggot" means ass.

Listen up you eunuch piece o shit. Go fuck yourself if you can! I didn't start the flame war you did. I know plenty of europeans as well as others from other parts of the world and none of them are near as full of shit as you are. Go off and live in your utopian dream world you call reality.


RE: Too bad
By karielash on 11/18/2009 12:10:22 AM , Rating: 1
You know shit about shit, your a retard.


RE: Too bad
By dtm4trix on 11/18/2009 1:38:33 AM , Rating: 2
You're an idiot. We're done here!


RE: Too bad
By karielash on 11/18/2009 2:09:01 AM , Rating: 2
You were done the moment you opened your mouth, you were just to stupid to realise it.


RE: Too bad
By AstroGuardian on 11/17/2009 2:32:16 AM , Rating: 2
Genocide never happened in Kosovo even though they were asking for it. You Americans know nothing about the world. You know nothing about Kosovo's history. If justice was about to happen, Kosovo should have been left leveled to the ground.

But the genocide in Bosnia was bad. Blame Tito for it. He created the whole barrel of gun powder.

How do you justify America giving weapons and training Islamic militants in Kosovo? Oh i guess your Department of State never told you that eh? America is the biggest bully in the world. There were American military officers sentenced for life in imprisonment cause of training terrorists in Kosovo and Macedonia. And yet, money wins again!


RE: Too bad
By dtm4trix on 11/17/2009 3:53:21 PM , Rating: 1
You dont know shit! Prove to me that the US was training Islamic militants. Otherwise STFU!


RE: Too bad
By AstroGuardian on 11/18/2009 2:23:10 AM , Rating: 1
Come here and i prove it to you. Stupid Albanians with IR stinger missiles, Remington snipers, US and Israel made weapons?
I don't have to prove anything to you. You already know what US did in Kosovo and the whole world knows. Pussy US officers admitted when caught red handed.

I read your previous posts. You really are retarded!


RE: Too bad
By dtm4trix on 11/16/2009 2:11:15 PM , Rating: 2
Tell that to Bernie Madoff...


RE: Too bad
By Etsp on 11/16/2009 9:25:04 PM , Rating: 2
The difference, is that while he had a lot of money, he pissed everyone else that has a lot of money. That's about the only exception.


RE: Too bad
By Beenthere on 11/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: Too bad
By Ranari on 11/15/2009 10:12:00 PM , Rating: 3
Something doesn't add up here. I haven't been burying my nose in this story too much, but how the heck do you do $800,000+ dollars in damage by hacking into a computer system?

Oh wait, you don't.

As an American citizen, I'm actually going to go on a limb and defend him here. I'm not debating the fact that he broke into US government databases, but I don't think he did $800k+ in damage simply by snooping around and looking for information. Personally, I just think the US government is going for blood here because they were humiliated so bad.


RE: Too bad
By Beenthere on 11/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: Too bad
By Jalek on 11/15/2009 11:05:59 PM , Rating: 3
It's really just sad that American laws aren't based on societal protection or norms but by how much money the corporate lobbyists backing them have.

If you want to defend corporate governance, I guess you're free to do so. You're probably safer as well.


RE: Too bad
By Beenthere on 11/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: Too bad
By Justin Time on 11/16/2009 12:41:52 AM , Rating: 5
There is a requirement of a significant claim before the UK will recognise it as an extraditable offence. Perhaps it's coincidence that the USA claims such an amount of damage, but I suspect not.

However, if guys like this can waltz into their defence systems almost at will, then perhaps the USA should be focussing efforts on actually fixing their security problems, instead of imagining that incarcerating this loser is actually going to advance their cause one iota, or protect them from groups with less benign intentions.

I'm sure that threats of jail time will dissuade Nth Korea, Iran, etc etc... NOT.


RE: Too bad
By Uncle on 11/16/2009 1:43:29 AM , Rating: 2
The 800 thou. is the cost to fix the hole that thier IT department were lacking in knowledge of, but when did you ever hear of the US of A ever take responsibility for their lack of. They should be paying this guy to fix their problems. They need to acknowledge their incompetence and be glad that some foreign outfit didn't hack in (maybe).


RE: Too bad
By mmnno on 11/16/2009 4:19:26 AM , Rating: 2
I've got just two words for you, just two words:

Billable hours.


RE: Too bad
By karielash on 11/16/2009 6:38:24 PM , Rating: 3

Billable hours... 800K for 93 PC's, sorry, 'total BS' is the only thing that comes to mind. You could buy 93 new decked PC's and get Jesus Christ and Moses to install Windows and it still wouldn't cost 800K and who knows, they might change the default user account names......


Get Richarded
By andrinoaa on 11/16/2009 3:34:41 AM , Rating: 5
So, Haliburton can charge $10,000 for a toilet many times over, but some one with rudimentary computer hacking ability on the other side of the world is charged with $800,000 damage for trying to find UFO's? Ah come on now, this is totally out of proportion. If he was going to be charged with inappropriate behaviour ie humiliated and then sent back with a stern warning, no one would complain. And that would be fair and reasonable punishment FOR THIS CASE. This is just symptomatic of a BRUTALISED SOCIETY. You see it in their policeing. Petty driving offences, see you with arms spread out, gun in your face and cable tied too! Marched off to the lockup and finger printed. Their legal system is the same , go for the juggular on both sides over anything and everything. Everyone packs a six pack to protect them selves from everyone yet gun shot injuries don't seem to worry anyone.
As I said they are a BRUTALISED SOCIETY, and this case is just another symptom. For such a god fearing people, they sure have strange protestant ideas about moral behaviour. They just don't get that the rest of the world is a little more mature about these things.




RE: Get Richarded
By MrPoletski on 11/16/2009 9:02:40 AM , Rating: 2
I got my propaganda, I got revisionism..

I got my violence in hi-def ultra realism..


RE: Get Richarded
By Technomage on 11/16/2009 1:40:05 PM , Rating: 1
What are you smoking, andrinoaa? It must be laced with some bad pesticides.

Can we get off the Haliburton train? I'm not an employee or stockholder, but to keep dragging them into any old argument is just childish.

As far as being a brutalized society (yes, I used the z) you're way off. Try and watch another channel once in a while. The Leftist channel is a bit repetitive. No one I know has EVER been spread out or shown a gun or cable tied due to a driving offense. I've had tickets and made my share of traffic mistakes, so I can speak from some level of personal experience. Not everyone carries a gun, but I would not be bothered in the least if more did. There are no shootouts over disagreements, and it's not the wild west here.

Don't even START trying to tell me the rest of the world is more mature about anything. Most of the rest of the world has been sold this tripe about fewer freedoms really being more. Many of us over here don't believe that. More is more, plain and simple. Anything else is just rationalization to avoid seeing reality. We don't want more parents. Why do most of you fight your parents until you can grow up and leave their homes, and then wish for a parental government to kiss every booboo and make it all better? That is not more mature, it's childish. Grow up and take care of yourselves and stop asking someone else to take care of you.

Now, having said all that, I'll say that I have a child with Asperger's. A majority of people with this condition are possessed of higher than average intelligence, and many are drawn to technology, where the interpersonal skills are less important. If the defendant in this case is more than mildly affected, as could be documented by a physician, then he should NEVER be placed in a regular prison setting. He could not cope with it, and he should be given an alternative sentence - not let off the hook. He committed a crime, and has confessed to it. Some punishment is warranted. But, we can't even assess what that punishment should be at the present time, can we? I'll agree that it sounds politically motivated. I can't stand that, either. I'd punish him by making him work for the agencies whose security he penetrated, having him find as many holes as possible and plugging them. That seems fair, and would make use of his obvious talents in repayment for his offense with those same talents.

Tell me that's backward, brutalized, or childish.


RE: Get Richarded
By Uncle on 11/16/2009 2:25:51 PM , Rating: 2
Ah, its trivia time, do you remember Rodney King and a few other videos, that proves to you that not all is well in "The Home of The Free"


RE: Get Richarded
By Uncle on 11/16/2009 2:37:38 PM , Rating: 2
Forgot to mention since you opened up the door. The Great US of A has the highest murder rate per thousand, the most people in prison per thousand, highest crime rate, highest drug addiction rate in the world, those are just the good stats, shall I go on. What in your society creates this lopsidedness compared to the rest of the world. I like the US and live next door, I just don't do the "Holier Then Tho" crap.


RE: Get Richarded
By JediJeb on 11/16/2009 6:15:51 PM , Rating: 2
At least here, McKinnon will tried and be innocent until proven guilty. Unlike many other places where you are guilty until you can prove you are innocent.

Maybe we have more people in prision because we have a police force that can catch more criminals. Who knows, but I sure don't believe it is because we allow people more freedoms.

As for the Rodney King thing, well it wasn't the right thing for the police to do. Also, one small group out of how many total police officers in the country is that. They were dealt with because of what they did. I have family who are police officers and I know they can be under a lot more stress than most of us will ever experience, not saying it justifies what they did, but there are many underlying conditions that may never be known about situations such as that one.

I doubt we have the highest murder rate per thousand, especially if you include the genocide that takes place in several of the African countries and other places. And where I live in the USA, with 20,000 people here we have had maybe 2 murders in the last 10 years, that seems pretty low compared to many places, so to generalize that the USA has the highest murder rate seems a little incorrect to me.


Gitmo
By SunLord on 11/15/2009 5:27:47 PM , Rating: 4
I call BS on him ever having a the slightest chance of going to Gitmo even under Bush. That is just silly fear mongering which seems to of worked.




RE: Gitmo
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/15/2009 6:00:58 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, the possibility of him going there was never on the table.


RE: Gitmo
By karielash on 11/16/2009 6:40:41 PM , Rating: 2

Well, thanks for your glorious insight, I agree though. It's not like the USA has ever illegally detained, kidnapped and tortured people like those evil nations do..... and of course they always tell the truth.


Not that simple
By NaughtyMonkey on 11/16/2009 7:39:43 AM , Rating: 2
First, the differing levels of evidence under the extradition treaty are irrelevant because he has actually been indicted, and he confessed.

Second, he has not been convicted yet, nor sentenced. The 70 years bandied about is the maximum, if all sentences were to be served consecutively. Chance of that = 0. My guess is that he will get off lightly, but the Americans want to show that you cannot hack US Government computers and incur no response.

Third, I agree that this has more to do with domestic British politics than anything else




RE: Not that simple
By karielash on 11/16/2009 10:05:08 AM , Rating: 2
well... you can't hack them unless your

a) Chinese
b) North Korean
c) Ukranian
d) Russian
e) any other person with knowledge of default usernames and passwords and/or a copy of Metasploit or of course access to Google... and the ability to string together some Unix search terms relating to passwords and the US military...

secondly,

your right this is about British domestic policy, personally I think a few politicians should be put up on charges of treason for the BS treaty the bastards slipped in under the cover of 'it will only be used for terrorist suspects' excuse, given that the USA STILL has not ratified the treaty and they probably never will.


RE: Not that simple
By NaughtyMonkey on 11/16/2009 11:43:33 AM , Rating: 2
Not denying that the treaty seems a bit one-sided, but it does not really apply here. As I said, he has confessed, and has already been indicted (which means there is a warrant for his arrest on specific charges, and a judge has found sufficient evidence for trial).

At this point the US can't really back down. I suspect if the Brits ship him over, they will do anything to get out of the sticky situation. Like minimal to no jail, and if any, it will be served in Britain. My best guess is that will find him guilty, and sentence him to time already served. Just to get it over with.


RE: Not that simple
By karielash on 11/16/2009 6:41:58 PM , Rating: 2

It does apply, or in fact SHOULD NOT apply until the USA ratifies their side of the treaty, but they have never even tried to, not even under Bush could they get it through Congress.


Come now...
By InternetGeek on 11/15/2009 5:14:58 PM , Rating: 2
Saying you're crazy because you believe in UFOS, and on top of that, your government tells the planet they are going to protect you (possibly institutionalize you) because of your mental health is just mean. lol




RE: Come now...
By Yawgm0th on 11/15/2009 5:38:13 PM , Rating: 2
He has Asperger syndrome and the mental health claims relate mostly to that. No one is claiming he's a paranoid schizophrenic or anything similar due to his beliefs.


RE: Come now...
By bubba551 on 11/20/2009 2:30:33 PM , Rating: 3
Asperger syndrome is one of those conditions that exists on a continuum. Not only would a mild case never meet the legal definition of diminished capacity, the individual and his family would likely not even be aware of it.

I suspect that more than a few of the posters here are Aspy's and don't even know it.


General election
By chris2618 on 11/15/2009 5:47:59 PM , Rating: 2
Properly has something to do with a general election just around the corner.




RE: General election
By MrPoletski on 11/16/2009 4:40:54 AM , Rating: 2
It would certainly be a good move on Browns part to stop his extradition. I'm sure that the Daily Fail will manage to make it sound like a bad move though, because Brown did it. But nonetheless, it would be a popular move this side of the pond.


Reward
By vailr on 11/16/2009 12:34:20 AM , Rating: 2
U.S. Government prosecutors ought to use some common sense.
Maybe offer the "British hacker" a free ride on the Space Shuttle so he could "help search for UFO's". And their claim of "$800,000 computer damage" is equally ridiculous.




RE: Reward
By MrPoletski on 11/16/2009 9:01:10 AM , Rating: 2
$800,000 dollars is a reasonable price for investigating his crimes.

Yanno, if it's Halliburton doing the investigating....

That's barely enough to pay for a cup of tea!


"UFO Hacker"?
By bf42neon on 11/15/2009 10:09:00 PM , Rating: 2
You mean Jeff Goldblum? Since when was saving the planet grounds for extradition?




Calm Down
By NewYork999 on 11/23/2009 4:26:24 PM , Rating: 2
Everyone needs to calm down... Since the beginning of time, the world has been run by those with the highest bank roll. There is no point in arguing about who is the bad guy in this situation. Im sure both the USA and UK want to make an example of this guy to create fear in others who are thinking of breaking the same laws.

We all know in the end, some tech company, whether US or UK will hire this guy and put him to work. Perhaps this is why the extradition is still on hold.

As for all the other comments about the US and European involvement in the wars over the years, all I can say is that I believe a country does not get involved unless there is something in it for them. No one ever talks about the mass murders that occur in Africa every single day, because Africa has nothing to offer, such as Oil, Money, etc...

With that said, everyone needs to STFU, seriously, because we are all at fault, regardless of where we come from, regardless of race or religion.




The Real Questions
By fredthelight on 11/16/2009 2:35:30 AM , Rating: 1
Are : do USA hide something about UFOs? Did this guy found something? Because if there's a yes to any of those questions, then HE is NOT guilty, USA are, in front of human society for hidding things that deal with human interests...
The fact that his guy hacked into high security US databases and got catch is irrelevant, because there must be thousands of others who did it and USA could never catch them, and it's should be a shame for america to admit such weaknesses in front of the world, especially regarding their own national security.




Political scapegoating
By daveG on 11/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: Political scapegoating
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/15/2009 8:41:54 PM , Rating: 5
If they let this slide, then your essentialy giving a free pass to anyone who has a "mental problem". It would not be a good idea to allow them to get away with such actions. If they choose not to extradite him, then the UK runs the risk of the USA refusing to extradite people in the future, or refusing to cooperate with the UK on normally joint operations in the future.


RE: Political scapegoating
By karielash on 11/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: Political scapegoating
By MrPoletski on 11/16/2009 4:35:17 AM , Rating: 2
He's not getting a free pass, it's not like we havent arrested him and stuff ourselves!

He will be (is currently being) punished for his crimes by us.

we've got it covered, if the USA needs $800k ransom then I guess the brit taxpayer would be happy to pay that to protect one of its citizens.

we're nice like that over here see.


RE: Political scapegoating
By SpaceJumper on 11/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: Political scapegoating
By Silver2k7 on 11/16/2009 8:53:01 AM , Rating: 2
since there is more or less proof of the US and probably other governments are hiding info about UFO sights that could not be explained or was very hard to explain.. while diverting attention in the media to cases that where obviousley muchmore easily explained..

isn't it time they start releasing any info they have by now..
really c'mon if they been hiding info and ridiculing any info leaked since 1940's its bloddy about time they start coming clean if they have anything to share with the world!!


RE: Political scapegoating
By andrinoaa on 11/16/2009 3:46:49 AM , Rating: 1
Master Kenobi, just by your approach, I can tell you have an "American" chip on your shoulder. USA refuse to allow joint excersises because of one dickhead? Man you have got balls. I don't think England is totally in Afganistan because they want to lick your balls. Maybe its because of your screwups in the last 40yrs that you rely on others to give you legitimacy. As for letting it slide for anyone with a mental problem, whats so wrong about that? Do you have a fobia against mental conditions? Did OJ have a mental problem, lol?


RE: Political scapegoating
By eddieroolz on 11/16/2009 4:19:32 AM , Rating: 1
Also do realize that other non-Americans like me also agree wtih Master Kenobi in wanting him extradited. If you commit a crime, you stand by it. I don't care if he has whatever syndrome, it's too easy these days to hide behind the mantra of mental illness. Canadian courts are rampant with sane people claiming mental illness and insanity to escape punishment.

P.S. Britain is in Afghanistan because of their NATO obligations. And before you start saying Britain is contributing A LOT, yadda yadda, remember that my Canadian troops are dying in droves because you Europeans are all too scared to go fighting in the south. Germans? Refuses anything outside of Kabul. Brits? Taking a back-seat role letting the Canadians/Americans fight the insurgents. French? Let's not even talk about them.


RE: Political scapegoating
By 55thFox on 11/16/2009 5:23:48 AM , Rating: 3
Taking a back seat role.....

British deaths in Afghanistan - 233
Canadian deaths In Afghanistan - 133

http://icasualties.org/oef/

Over 70,000 British servicemen have served in Afghanistan to date. Please get your facts straight before talking BS, perhaps you would like to talk to the families of those dead soldiers before you belittle their sacrifice.


RE: Political scapegoating
By eddieroolz on 11/16/2009 1:29:53 PM , Rating: 1
Oh yeah my friend. 100 more deaths and you have 70,000 troops. We have what, a few thousand and 133 deaths? What does that tell you about the spines of the British? You guys have at lest 100X more troops and only 100 more deaths. Scale of comparison, my friend.

The facts are facts. Our troops are taking the heavy beating with the Americans and you still have the guts to complain about our contribution.


RE: Political scapegoating
By Uncle on 11/16/2009 2:50:06 PM , Rating: 2
And always remember the Great US of A was always the last to join in the World wars. They must have the wrong meaning of what a liberater is. They seem to have a habit of coming in late.Then try to steal all the glory.
"Our troops are taking the heavy beating with the Americans and you still have the guts to complain about our contribution."
Thats how the US does things, let other countries foot soldiers go in first then come out from under the cover and ask "Is everything clear, wouldn't want to get hurt if I can help it."


RE: Political scapegoating
By eddieroolz on 11/16/2009 3:29:15 PM , Rating: 2
Go back and read the whole post again.


RE: Political scapegoating
By 55thFox on 11/16/2009 4:35:18 PM , Rating: 1
You appear to have misunderstood the troop numbers, Britain current has 8,100 troops deployed in country (70,000 have served at least one tour since 2001). Until recently we had about 5,000 deployed at any one time. Canada has roughly 3,000. This isn't a contest to see who has the biggest dick. Looking at those figures the casualty rate is very similar (to be expected as both Canadian and British troops are serving in the same region in the south, Helmand Province). I have nothing but respect for the bravery and sacrifice of any soldier from any nation who have lost their life in that conflict and sympathy for their families and friends.

We don't mind helping the Americans fight the war on Terror, if the Americans hadn't funded the IRA for 30 years we wouldn't know how to fight terrorists would we?

I am guessing the nearest you have been to a war is playing COD on your PC whereas I have served and seen action in the Falklands Conflict, Northern Ireland, Desert Storm and Bosnia, so just stfu and stop spouting mindless uninformed drivel about something you know nothing about and have no experience of.


RE: Political scapegoating
By eddieroolz on 11/16/2009 8:31:33 PM , Rating: 2
Cite your sources next time you make a claim. I had to go and verify it myself - the onus is on you, not me.

My point is that Europeans are too picky about things. Who went over to Europe to bail them out? Sure, they only joined after the Japanese attack, but let's face it, would Europe have lasted another four years under seige from Hitler? Truth hurts, but every European owes their existence to the North Americans.

Also I'll take your claim about your military history with a grain of salt. After all, this is the internets. There are no age verifications, no background checks, and I can claim that I am in fact John Browning if I felt like. If it's true then I applaud your service.


RE: Political scapegoating
By karielash on 11/18/2009 12:29:03 AM , Rating: 2

I think all the allies in WW2 owe a thanks to each other, and a damn big thanks to the Russians, because even with the USA Europe would have been shafted without the Russians draining Germany.

I think it's safe to say that any one power would not have beaten the Germans and probably not even two powers.


RE: Political scapegoating
By jonup on 11/16/2009 7:27:02 AM , Rating: 1
Let's not forget that we wasted bunch of tax dollars/euros (including mine), because we knew that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.


RE: Political scapegoating
By Strunf on 11/16/2009 7:36:51 AM , Rating: 1
lol last time I checked the Canada never really made the first step on anything since a really long time... must be the French blood running through your veins.


RE: Political scapegoating
By eddieroolz on 11/16/2009 1:33:17 PM , Rating: 2
You obviously haven't learned anything yet in history lessons - here's a simple breakdown for you:

UN - 1945. Founding nation.
Suez Crisis - 1957. Averted crisis.
Vietname war protests - 1960's. Provided safe haven for draft dodgers.
Somalia - 1993. One of the few nations with the guts go to there.
Rwanda - 1995. Canadian general in charge of UN troops while the world watched the massacre.
9/11 - 2001. Canada provided quick assistance to help passenger jets land safely out-of-schedule on Canadian soil. Provided housing and such.

Please do some research first before you rattle off, okay?


RE: Political scapegoating
By Strunf on 11/16/2009 8:16:45 PM , Rating: 2
The Canada funding member of the UN, please do some research before you rattle off.It's not even part of the Security Council... it entered in 45 but 2 weeks after MANY others including Iran.


RE: Political scapegoating
By eddieroolz on 11/16/2009 8:35:26 PM , Rating: 2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_member...

Source quoted. Yours?

Please do not be bitter that Canada is a founding member of the UN. I'm bitter that we contributed much more than De Gaulle ever did, but he got the UN Security Seat instead for France.

You should perhaps not rattle off like an ignorant person before you do some research.


RE: Political scapegoating
By Strunf on 11/17/2009 8:04:16 AM , Rating: 2
Like I said Canada joined 2 weeks later than many...

You contributed more than the French? it was the French and the others from the Security Council that set the guidelines of what would be the UN, Canada just jumped in the bandwagon like so many others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United...
Read the Preliminaries part...

Canada doesn't even pay 1/2 what the French pay to the UN.


RE: Political scapegoating
By eddieroolz on 11/17/2009 1:29:17 PM , Rating: 2
We paid in blood, we paid in soldier's lives. We had one of the largest military in the world after the end of the war. We lost our lives for WWI and then WWII for the liberation of France. We sacrificed a lot for a small semi-nation that we were at the time, with a population of less than 20million. What more do you ask from us, a nuclear bomb? France has 67million people today. We have 31million. We pay about half of what France pays. It seems about right to me.


RE: Political scapegoating
By karielash on 11/16/2009 3:46:57 PM , Rating: 1

WTF has Afghanistan got to do with this subject?

But as your on the subject, Canada has about 2400 troops in Afghanistan, Britain about 7500, the number of deaths of Canadian troops (minus those killed by the Americans of course) is about proportional to the troop levels, both have served in active combat areas, and both are (or have been at one point or another) under the command of NATO and both are fulfilling NATO commitments, 'your' Canadian troops are serving Helmund/Kandahar Province, as is the British Contingent, maybe you should find out what the F you are talking about before you start spouting shit.


RE: Political scapegoating
By knutjb on 11/16/2009 10:01:06 AM , Rating: 5
So, using your analogy,the FBI and other Fed agencies should just look the other way in regards to the transfer of $10M stolen through computer hacking from Eastern Europe. After all they did it from outside the US.

Those stupid banks they shouldn't have left the door wide open, they deserved it.

If they had emptied your bank account it would be ok because they committed it from home and never entered the country they stole from.

The guy committed a crime and deserves to be punished for it. It doesn't matter if he didn't take money, he broke into a computer system he had no right entering, no matter the reason.

Sometime the anticipation is worse than the punishment. If he had come over already he would likely be most of the way through his sentence, provided he had been convicted. So who is really putting his life on hold?

Europe's human rights groups are a joke because this is not about violating his human rights. Maybe if he had emptied their bank accounts they would see it differently. No they just hate the US.

Be careful with moral relevancy; a crime is a crime.


RE: Political scapegoating
By Uncle on 11/16/2009 1:25:29 PM , Rating: 2
Ah come on, lets use the three strikes rule that the US of A invented and is pushing belligerently to the rest of the world, like the good cops they think they are. Give the guy a break and let him serve his time at home. One breaks into a computer and gets the same treatment as a crazed Killer by extradition, something doesn't smell right in Lotus land.


RE: Political scapegoating
By dtm4trix on 11/16/2009 5:18:36 PM , Rating: 2
You do the crime you do the time. I am sure that he would get a fair trial and would most likely get to serve his time in Britain. Even if he doesn't get to serve his time in Britain, I'm sure he will be taken care of in a min security lock-up here in the US. It's not like he is gonna be given the death penalty or anything. He will be in a min or med security federal penitentiary. They are more like country clubs then prisons. He just doesnt want to come face the music for his crime.


RE: Political scapegoating
By Uncle on 11/16/2009 8:26:06 PM , Rating: 2
"You do the crime you do the time." Your most definitely not American, with a comment like that. Americans love to point the finger at everyone else so it doesn't give them time to think about their own back yard. Hell their still in Iraq looking for weapons of mass destruction and leaving mass destruction as an after thought.


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