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  (Source: AppleInsider)

Windows 7 (top) and OS X Snow Leopard (bottom): look alikes? Compare and contrast for yourself!  (Source: Geek Zone)
An employee claims Microsoft found inspiration in the more rich graphical operating system of rival, Win 7 team responds

A Microsoft advertising executive, speaking with the site PCR, went on record to say that he believed Windows 7's design to be inspired by OS X.  Now Microsoft is refuting the quote, which seems bound to wind up in the latest round of "Get a Mac" commercials.

In the interview with PCR, Simon Aldous, Microsoft's Partner Group Manager is asked, "Is Windows 7 really a much more agile operating system, in terms of the specific uses it can be moulded to?"

He replies:

...I saw an article recently that described it as ‘Vista on steroids’, and in some ways you can absolutely relate to that. One of the things that people say an awful lot about the Apple Mac is that the OS is fantastic, that it’s very graphical and easy to use. What we’ve tried to do with Windows 7 – whether it’s traditional format or in a touch format – is create a Mac look and feel in terms of graphics. We’ve significantly improved the graphical user interface, but it’s built on that very stable core Vista technology, which is far more stable than the current Mac platform, for instance.

The quote sparked a fury of web activity.  After all, to give OS X its propers, the operating system did have a richer, more graphical environment than Windows in the XP era, and Microsoft seemed to strive to catch up with Windows Vista and then Windows 7, looking to provide a similarly rich graphical interface -- something that many customers demanded.  When looking at Windows 7, some graphical features do vaguely resemble those of OS X, but there's significant differences as well (OS X's Launcher Bar differs tremendously from Windows 7's Task Bar) that indicate that the OS is no mere OS X clone, even in terms of looks.

One important point that many of those quoting Mr. Aldous's remarks failed to make clear was that he was not involved in the design of Windows 7 (he's an advertising/PR section manager).  The Windows 7 Team's chief blogger, Brandon LeBlanc, has posted a blog blasting the suggestion that Windows 7 is an OS X clone.

He writes:

An inaccurate quote has been floating around the Internet today about the design origins of Windows 7 and whether its look and feel was “borrowed” from Mac OS X.  Unfortunately this came from a Microsoft employee who was not involved in any aspect of designing Windows 7. I hate to say this about one of our own, but his comments were inaccurate and uninformed. If you’re interested in learning more about the design of Windows 7, I suggest reading this AP story with Julie Larson-Green as well as these WSJ (membership required) and Fast Company articles. And here is one of many blog posts on the E7 blog discussing the design process of Windows 7.

Many Apple-leaning sites, nonetheless are seizing on the quote as evidence that OS X is gaining on Windows.  Writes Apple Insider, "The similarities between Windows 7 and Apple's latest operating system upgrade, Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, were noted by The Wall Street Journal's Walt Mossberg in his review of the Microsoft software. He said he believes that the Mac OS is still the superior operating system, but only slightly."

Apple Insider goes on to note the terrific sales managed by the well-received Snow Leopard.  It fails to note, however, the equally terrific sales that Windows 7 has put up, besting Vista's launch week by a reported 234 percent.



Comments     Threshold


Wow...
By bradmshannon on 11/12/2009 8:25:40 AM , Rating: 5
So I guess anyone that tries to create a graphically rich OS is copying Apple now. Maybe we should all just give in and convert to Macs because they are obviously superior in every way :)

Oh and why the hell should I listen to a PR moron about graphical design of an OS? People are overreacting, but then again...it's Windows vs Macs and that's fun...




RE: Wow...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/12/2009 8:38:04 AM , Rating: 5
Yea, Windows and Macs are a classic flame war. Linux can be mixed in either side for additional combustability.


RE: Wow...
By JasonPainter on 11/12/09, Rating: -1
RE: Wow...
By ertomas on 11/12/2009 2:41:33 PM , Rating: 4
The first and only BSOD I've got on windows 7 (since the beta) happened after installing Creative X-FI drivers. I guess I should have seen that one coming.

Other than that it's been great...


RE: Wow...
By Ammohunt on 11/12/2009 3:09:40 PM , Rating: 2
Still haven't learned eh? I left creative years ago for onboard sound.


RE: Wow...
By Souka on 11/12/2009 4:32:27 PM , Rating: 4
I'm still running Win7 x64 RC2...not a single BSOD and only the rare app crash.

I pulled out my old X-Fi Fatal1y gamer card... sound is sooo much better than the on-board...only can describe it as "rich". Really notice it when wearing my headphones.

Motherboard is an ASUS P5B delux... ADI1988? codec is used I think.

I only pulled out my x-fi sound card because I updated my sound drivers with those from ASUS and had problems...even after removing them, sound crackle issues. So removed drivers, disabled on-board, and put my creative card in...drivers installed without issue and work great.

So yes people have probems with Creative...and other companies...to each his/her own I guess.

My $.02


RE: Wow...
By Souka on 11/12/2009 4:34:59 PM , Rating: 2
Oh yeah...with the x-fi card i gain almost 3fps in Crysis, 10 in Resident Evil 5 (only games I had loaded with easy benchmark tools).

Another perk of the X-fi vs. MY onboard sound.


RE: Wow...
By feraltoad on 11/13/2009 4:13:17 AM , Rating: 2
Nothing but good stuff to say about Win7 and my X-fi Xtreme Music. Sounds great, couldn't imagine using headphones without it.


RE: Wow...
By foolsgambit11 on 11/12/2009 10:03:36 PM , Rating: 2
I'm on an HP laptop, and I had 3 or 4 BSODs over the approximately 6 months I had the beta installed on it. I didn't bother trying to chase down the cause, since it's not that worrying to have BSODs on a beta OS installed on a laptop.

And that's my anecdote.


RE: Wow...
By callmeroy on 11/13/2009 11:24:21 AM , Rating: 2
LOL....no kidding? That's the only BSOD I got with Win 7 pro as well...damn Creative (I have the X-FI Gamer Extreme).


RE: Wow...
By thekdub on 11/12/2009 8:56:49 AM , Rating: 2
To be honest, I see Windows 7 and think "Linux" for some reason, not "OS X". W7 kinda has a Suse look to it IMO.


RE: Wow...
By jonmcc33 on 11/12/2009 9:25:53 AM , Rating: 2
SUSE look? Actually, that might be the KDE desktop environment you are thinking of. Having used OpenSUSE 10.3 and 11 myself I don't see the similarity at all.


RE: Wow...
By lagitup on 11/12/2009 9:45:02 AM , Rating: 2
The first time I saw Win7 screens I thought it was a mockup for the new version of KDE


RE: Wow...
By jonmcc33 on 11/12/2009 10:01:10 AM , Rating: 3
Actually, the first KDE came out in 1998 and looked a lot like Windows 95.

The current KDE 4 came out in 2008, well after Windows Vista (which is looks like most).


RE: Wow...
By HotFoot on 11/12/2009 11:03:49 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I thought the idea behind KDE was to make it more comfortable for people who've come from a Windows background. As far as Ubuntu goes, I always preferred the Gnome interface.


RE: Wow...
By Bateluer on 11/12/2009 10:18:30 AM , Rating: 2
When I first installed the 7RC, the UI reminded me a lot of KDE 4, not OSX.


RE: Wow...
By KeypoX on 11/13/2009 1:25:38 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, loook at windows 1.0 looks the same. KDE copied windows 1.0.


RE: Wow...
By dragonbif on 11/12/2009 1:16:34 PM , Rating: 5
OMG!!! That car has 4 wheels like that other car over there! They so took the idea from them!

Im sorry but they do not look that much alike. Sure they both have a 3D environment but how many ways can you put a box on a screen?

Besides I do not see anything in his statment that would say that Microsoft got the idea from Mac. All I see is that it looks like it but it is more stable and more reliable then Mac's OS.

OMG!!! That LCD looks like this LCD! Cant they come up with their own version of LCD that is hexagonal shape or something?


RE: Wow...
By Donkeyshins on 11/12/2009 3:13:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
OMG!!! That LCD looks like this LCD! Cant they come up with their own version of LCD that is hexagonal shape or something?


See, now you're ripping that idea off from Battlestar Galactica (2003).


RE: Wow...
By Runiteshark on 11/12/2009 1:16:05 PM , Rating: 5
OSX Burns better because they put more paper in the box.


RE: Wow...
By jonmcc33 on 11/12/2009 8:49:25 AM , Rating: 5
I agree. Simon Aldous is actually the UK distribution chief for Microsoft. That's nobody significant in the development of the operating system. He's merely a salesman.

Within the interview he's merely trying to sell people on the graphical advancements of Windows 7 to compete with Mac OS X. He is not saying that Microsoft copied the look of Mac OS X.

Of course AppleInsider and all Mac fanatics leap on this and twist the words around.

I just look that OS X 10.6.2 update just came out with numerous fixes to reliability, stability and unresponsive application issues. Apple is just a big far liar with it's advertising.


RE: Wow...
By RjBass on 11/12/2009 9:11:34 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Of course AppleInsider and all Mac fanatics leap on this and twist the words around.


They are starting to sound like politicians from both sides of the aisle arguing some new bill.


RE: Wow...
By jonmcc33 on 11/12/2009 9:29:30 AM , Rating: 3
I know. They are acting as if it came from Bill Gates himself. They think that everyone that works for Microsoft had a hand in the development of Windows 7. I guess even the people from India that answer the phone when you are trying to activate Windows also had a hand in the development and planning of Windows 7 too.


RE: Wow...
By kroker on 11/12/2009 9:01:19 AM , Rating: 5
What do you expect? Apple claims everything was their idea in some form or another. They even tried to patent UI themes, remember?

I'm so sick of Apple's arrogance and their draconian measures to lock down users and force them to pay more than they should that I hope people really do steal their few good ideas. They are evil, pure and simple.

I would say more, but this debate is so stupid, childish and unimportant that it's not even worth the effort.


RE: Wow...
By harmaton on 11/12/09, Rating: -1
RE: Wow...
By Donkeyshins on 11/12/2009 3:19:51 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
MS isn't being a little draconian with the Xbox. Check and fucking mate.


Only if you think draconian means banning people from a service for blatently violating the terms of agreement for said service. If people don't want to be banned from Xbox Live, then don't mod or pirate. If people want to mod and pirate, then don't be surprised when you are banned. It's all about the choices you make and personal responsibility. I think that's perfectly reasonable.


RE: Wow...
By harmaton on 11/12/2009 4:23:27 PM , Rating: 1
I agree with you.

This was to all the tards who say Apple is Draconian when it comes to such things as modding their hardware or messing with iTunes (Palm). It is Apples terms of services but people have a problem with Apple. My point is no one is forcing you to buy Apple or MS products.


RE: Wow...
By BZDTemp on 11/13/2009 4:30:53 AM , Rating: 1
MS does much more than that with the XBOX. Here are a few examples.

On the original XBOX the four gameports are USB ports only shaped differently. This makes things more expensive for users and has no upside to other than MS.

And as for the 360 only MS sanctioned hard drives, wireless for controllers uses a none-open standard, cable connectors does not use open standards, WLAN adapter is overpriced, LIVE cost money...


RE: Wow...
By Skelum on 11/12/2009 9:03:53 AM , Rating: 3
I have not use Mac much so I can't tell if it's superior in every way... But I do go to computer stores and in brand choices and price they are not superior to me.

This is more of a Mac vs PC comment rather then a Windows vs Leopard.

To me Apple is just the Sony of computers. They are trying to trap you in their own technology... If their OS is so great why don't you let people buy it and install it on their PC...

You can't flame Microsoft for being greedy when Apple is doing worse!!!

Don't get me wrong I like Mac. It was the first computer I ever bought. But I guess I just like having options...


RE: Wow...
By bug77 on 11/12/09, Rating: -1
RE: Wow...
By stubeck on 11/12/2009 9:29:10 AM , Rating: 2
Apple didn't create that to begin with though, it was actually something which was on the PC beforehand.


RE: Wow...
By Sazar on 11/12/2009 1:50:45 PM , Rating: 3
You mean like Konfabulator's application that Apple duplicated with Dashboard?

And no, I do not consider Desk Accessory to be a direct pre-cursor as those applications essentially existed in their own windows/containers.

A lot of the names and terms are and should be interchangeable :)


RE: Wow...
By Spivonious on 11/12/2009 9:28:02 AM , Rating: 4
What's the big deal here? He essentially said that Microsoft tried to make Windows 7 "very graphical and easy to use", because that's what people like about OS X.


RE: Wow...
By PAPutzback on 11/12/2009 10:44:04 AM , Rating: 2
I agree. So what. I have designed many forms for apps and I stick with standards to make them user friendly.

Ok, Cancel, Apply buttons in the bottom right. Progress bars load left to right.

If someone sees a good idea on an apple and thinks it would make sense to tweak it for their system then I say go ahead.

Kudos to MS for not sinking to Apple's smear campaign and just quietly working in the background making a OS with a better UX.


RE: Wow...
By foolsgambit11 on 11/12/2009 10:20:51 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sure that's what he meant to say, but tragically, it didn't come out that way. And people are making a big deal out of what is most likely a slip of the tongue. This PR guy was most likely given a scripted response to questions about 7's resemblance (or lack thereof) to OS X. It may have included something along the lines of what you just said, but he botched it up and said that 7 tried to mimick OS X's interface instead of saying that 7 tried to be graphical and easy to use, the same as OS X tries to be.

At least, that's how I imagine the whole thing went down.


RE: Wow...
By ncheese on 11/12/2009 9:42:12 AM , Rating: 5
Hey, Xerox as a commercial entity, at their PARC facility actually "invented" the first Windows/Icon based GUI system, along with the mouse as an extra interface. You can argue the all Apples, Macs, and Windows are a clone of Xerox!

However, some may argue that it was at Stanford, at the Stanford Research Institute, that developed the first Windows and mouse driven interface. In either case, it's not Apple/Jobs nor Microsoft/Gates.


RE: Wow...
By harmaton on 11/12/09, Rating: -1
RE: Wow...
By lightfoot on 11/12/2009 1:34:46 PM , Rating: 4
So now Steve Jobs and Apple invented the store??! I'm pretty sure stores have been around far longer than Apple. Heck, even specialty boutique stores predate Apple by at least a century.


RE: Wow...
By harmaton on 11/12/09, Rating: -1
RE: Wow...
By Donkeyshins on 11/12/2009 3:24:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
look at the MS stores. A blatant rip, just like Losedose 7. I am convinced MS can't produce anything on their own. They suck.


Yeah! Like 64-bit!

Oh wait. Apple didn't have full 64-bit support until 2009? Microsoft had it when? 2001? You're kidding!


RE: Wow...
By harmaton on 11/12/09, Rating: -1
RE: Wow...
By Mint on 11/12/2009 5:21:26 PM , Rating: 4
You think stores are a Windows or Apple thing. ITS NEITHER!!! Walk into a mall (if you can get off your fat ass) you will understand.


RE: Wow...
By harmaton on 11/13/2009 9:39:19 AM , Rating: 1
I see you have progressed to further reading than madlibs. Nice. Real original... actually a MS slave can't think on their own.

Oh, I made an argument against his lack of intelligence. you made an assumption about my weight, which is called a straw-man arguement. Look it up and learn something fuckball.


RE: Wow...
By Mint on 11/13/2009 3:21:58 PM , Rating: 2
lol. I think you should look up the definition yourself, as there's nothing more pathetic than a wannabe pedant using a term he doesn't understand.

Nothing else in my post is related to that 'assumption', so where's the strawman? I simply added a little variety to my mirror of your inane post. You seemed to have missed the irony in how I used your own 'logic' against you to invalidate your original worthless point.

I've never seen an Apple fanboy hanging so tightly to Jobs' nuts as to be irate at MS stores. Get a life, buddy.


RE: Wow...
By jnolen on 11/12/2009 10:10:03 AM , Rating: 1
Personally I like the "look" of applications/windows within OS X better than I like the Aero look in Vista and Windows 7. I think OS X's windows are cleaner where Windows 7 windows poor. The pictures in the article are a good example, comparing the look of the iTunes windows in OS X and the windows in W7.


RE: Wow...
By jonmcc33 on 11/12/2009 10:29:30 AM , Rating: 2
iTunes is an application that Apple wrote. Do you think that Microsoft dictates what how an application can work on their OS? Your comment makes zero sense.


RE: Wow...
By hiscross on 11/12/2009 11:03:59 AM , Rating: 2
Don't covert to a Mac, Go Mainframe. One nice looking green screen is all you'll ever need. Because mainframe features are hidden, you'll end up quitting computing all together. The paper / print industry will be so pleased. Oh, DT will be gone in a orange screen minute.


RE: Wow...
By William Gaatjes on 11/12/2009 12:32:53 PM , Rating: 2
I would not mind at all if microsoft copies the apple GUI like a xerox machine. But leave it at that for now.


WHAT?!?
By ICBM on 11/12/2009 9:35:41 AM , Rating: 3
I don't know if the guy has used Windows 7, but honestly it is 95% a Vista clone, the exception being the taskbar. It looks, feels, just like Vista, just a bit snappier.




RE: WHAT?!?
By jonmcc33 on 11/12/2009 9:40:52 AM , Rating: 2
You can't "clone" your own product. That Start button has been there for near 15 years now. I don't think Microsoft is going to sue itself for using it in every Windows release since then.


RE: WHAT?!?
By bupkus on 11/12/2009 10:38:40 AM , Rating: 2
I just installed Vista into a Windows 7 virtual machine and I gotta say it was a great advancement in OS technology, its problems not withstanding.
However, I did wait until the first service release.


RE: WHAT?!?
By ICBM on 11/12/2009 12:34:08 PM , Rating: 3
Why can't you clone your own product? Ok a better way to say it is update or repackage your product. My point was it isn't very different in looks from Vista, and isn't very different in functionality from anything back to 95. So this guy should say something along the lines that they were inspired by Vista, not OS X.

Don't get me wrong I am not bashing Windows in anyway. I think it is a great OS. I am just saying I think these reviews and reviewers are blowing things way out of proportion. My point is it works the same way as any other Windows system, and honestly I think thats a good thing. It's an incremental improvement, which frankly is all the Windows platform needs.


Not a very good PR person
By redbone75 on 11/12/2009 9:18:55 AM , Rating: 3
I'm sure this guy is in for a serious reprimand. You don't ever say you copied your main opponent on anything, even if you did. I wouldn't want him speaking for my company.




RE: Not a very good PR person
By jonmcc33 on 11/12/2009 9:38:19 AM , Rating: 2
He's a salesman. He's supposed to try to sell people on things, even comparing them to a competitors product or showing how much better it is then the competition.

Of course it is the Apple fanatic community that ran away with this as if he was actually involved in the development and planning of Windows 7.


Let's just get this out of the way...
By Smilin on 11/12/2009 11:49:43 AM , Rating: 2
Windows 7 is better than OS X. Period.




RE: Let's just get this out of the way...
By harmaton on 11/12/09, Rating: -1
RE: Let's just get this out of the way...
By croc on 11/12/2009 6:11:46 PM , Rating: 2
Go run a large transactional database on your silly Crapple. Say, 10,000 transactions / sec. Oh, you can't. Get an Oracle port for your Crapple. Oh, you can't. Write an SQL expression that parses 1 million transactions in under 10 sec. on your Crapple. Oh, you can't. Crapple is not the be-all and end-all that you seem to think it is, but just keep on worshiping....


By harmaton on 11/13/2009 9:44:35 AM , Rating: 1
Did I miss something? I am making fun of Microsoft buttfucks on this site. I never said anything about Apple.

Look at super-computers and the operating systems they use. Not Microsoft because they fucking suck in a distributed computing environment. Microsoft isn't the end all in every solution either.


Mac vs Win 7
By DrApop on 11/12/2009 10:09:45 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft has always been behind the Mac with respect to the user interface. You youngins don't remember the good ole days of DOS and the Macintosh. Microsoft went graphic specifically because of apple.

I've never owned an apple/Mac but have owned a number of IBM/DOS/Win machines dating back to my 286 10Mhz, 10 meg HD, 256 ram computer....boy those were the days! :)

But just recently I've really been thinking about purchasing an iMac. I don't game but do more productivity type work.




Honestly
By Suntan on 11/12/2009 1:55:46 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly, am I the only person that actually loads programs onto their computer?

I probably spend less than 1% of my computing time staring at the OS. The rest of the time I am actually using the computer to run programs. Why do so many people spend so much time just looking at icons on their desktop?

-Suntan




By jezzza234 on 11/12/2009 2:13:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
OS X's Launcher Bar differs tremendously from Windows 7's Task Bar


Actually thats its closest comparison! Its the one thing I always talk about in fact when comparing the two. You might not know Mac's very well though. I'll explain the significance in the "copy".

The Dock bar on the Mac represents icons for all programs in a kind of "Quick Launch" sort of way if you are familiar with Windows. However, it had a huge difference to Windows. The difference is that the "Quick Launch" was also the task bar at the same time. Any new app that opened opened in the same bar, and to get it to stay there in a "Quick Launch" kind of way, you just had to secondary click it and select "Keep in Dock". I always felt this was a really cool way of combining task bar with "Quick Launch" and keeping things tidy. Oh, and yes to open a new instance of the same app thats already open, you just secondary click it and select "New Window".

Now, every one of the features of the Dock bar I've just mentioned has been replicated almost exactly on the new WIndows 7 task bar! So I actually find it incredible that anyone can say they are so different. They are different only in appearance, as functionaly they are almost identical now. Yes Mac has some extra things such as Stacks, zooming icons, bouncing icons etc, but the main features are identical.

Incidentally, I manage a software development team in New Zealand. Before Windows 7 launched our company (and several others) were invited to go to the Microsoft Office to test our software on their WIndows 7 computers to make sure that everything worked correctly, and they went through extensive tests. I think the same thing was being done in several countries to make sure that Windows 7 launched with fewer issues than previous launches I guess. Anyway, the tech there was a guy down from Redmond to look at issues as they happened and report them directly back to the Windows 7 team. When I first saw Windows 7 there, I commented that the task bar was "quite similar to the Mac". The Redmond guy then said "QUITE similar?" and laughed. So I don't think its true that Microsoft don't actually agree with this ;)




Well, DUH!
By Belard on 11/12/2009 5:32:08 PM , Rating: 2
Of course Win7 looks / works a bit more like OS-X. Even when XP came out - its modernized look is somewhat inspired by OS-X. OS-X was shown for a year or so before its release (still before XP). XP came out about 18 months after Win2000.... since XP is just a skinned Win2000. Even in the Win95 days, we had skinning tools for the OS; WindowBlinds (which were ADDED-to XP).

Win7 is different because its PINNED programs are on the side, rather than the center.

But in reality, MS used inspiration for many other OSes... since MS has never created anything original. Its good to see them modernize their Windows OS.... they are STILL about 10 years behind, as always.

Win95 : MS first consumer Multi-tasking OS. (Amiga had multi-tasking GUI since 1986) - the list goes on.

Installing Win7 is FINALLY modern the way it should be. Not some ugly blue DOS type screen like what is used in XP.

Vista didn't really change the way a person used their computer. Win7 does.




Wow, did you even...
By Trisped on 11/12/2009 6:01:46 PM , Rating: 2
"After all, to give OS X its propers, the operating system did have a richer, more graphical environment than Windows in the XP era,"
I am not sure which XP era you are talking about, but when XP first launched it was way ahead of OS X. Of course over time Apple passed the OS up. They were making small updates on a regular basis where Windows was patching exploits because it was THE operating system and developing a new OS that would become Vista. And don't forget that when the OS X features came out many of them were broken, bugged, or incomplete. I remember when the application bar first came out for Apple trying to help a guy figure out which applications are open and which aren't. It turns out you couldn't tell.

I would also like to point out that the idea of only icons in the task bar has been around since Windows first introduced the task bar. Microsoft has been trying to implement it for a long time, but they just didn't have the time to get it right or the power to run it.




Vista Aero
By Cookoy on 11/12/2009 6:06:31 PM , Rating: 2
my perception was vista aero was inspired by Mac OS X and since Win7 was built on Vista, Mr Aldous may have a point. What's wrong with copying a good idea and improving it? Wonder how our cars would run if everybody is ashamed to copy the wheel design. What count for me is "you were better before, but now i'm better".

Whatever, i hope it's not ex-microsoft-PR-man Mr. Aldous.




By SiliconAddict on 11/12/2009 11:23:59 PM , Rating: 2
This is really silly. The only thing MS may have remotely copied was the basic concept of the dock. IMO they got rid of all the crap that was inherent of the dock. damn thing got too small when you had too many apps running in OS X anyways.
Anything beyond that. Aero snap? Bah. Apple doesn't have that and I use that feature all day long. Aero Peak? Not there either. Sorry but I switched back to Windows last fall and haven't regretted it for a moment. I like to customize my OS, that is why I chose Windows. You can do it with OS X as well.....with about to bagillion haxies and third party apps. Thanks but no.

The dude from MS should be fired. Period. Person was an idiot to even mention Apple. You'd think someone from marketing would know better.




By BZDTemp on 11/13/2009 4:15:14 AM , Rating: 2
It's makes me laugh whenever I read the "selling 243% better than Vista" story.




Isn't it time DT and Jason Mick grew up?
By sebmel on 11/12/09, Rating: -1
RE: Isn't it time DT and Jason Mick grew up?
By kroker on 11/12/2009 9:08:09 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
So Apple sell 14 x LESS phones than Nokia yet makes 45% MORE money.


Exactly! NOW you understand how overpriced Apple's products are?


By sebmel on 11/12/2009 10:05:57 AM , Rating: 2
Your comment is over simplistic. What we learn is that higher end items usually have higher margins. Apple has developed a luxury feel to their products and sells them at the top end of the market, thus, benefitting from higher margins.

When a company can do that and still achieve high sales they make a lot of money:

Ray Ban
Oakley
Nike
Gucci
Mulberry leather goods
Porsche cars (but it they gamble on the markets they lose it again)

When they do it but remain niche they make less money:
Breguet watches
Bugatti cars

Apple's profit margins are reportedly around 36%, across all products. If you were privy to Nokia's profit margins on it's smartphones you would find that they are similar to Apple's. The problem for Nokia is the margins associated with all its lower priced
handsets. If it sells too many of those it starts to suffer. Just as Dell has, churning out basic computers for businesses.

Many firms try to offer a full range of products. Apple has not. It has stuck to the top end of the market with prices for those items much the same as models of the same type sold by other makers, such as Sony.

I suspect that other firms will have been watching Apple enviously and will try to emulate its success by reducing the burden of very basic products on their overall profitability. I believe Dell is already doing it, having bought Alienware and launched their XPS computers. The task for them will be to demand what they need from Microsoft in terms of a luxury feel to the OS.


By hiscross on 11/12/2009 2:56:30 PM , Rating: 2
It's called Capitalism. No one is forced to buy any product but choose so out of their own free will. For those who wish to buy some else or not anything at all has the same free will. Business is about making money, not giving it away. that is call socialism. It becomes communism when people are forced to give away their money. Oh BTW that is what got voted into office to run what is left of america.

"Who Is John Galt?"


RE: Isn't it time DT and Jason Mick grew up?
By jonmcc33 on 11/12/2009 9:16:09 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, Jason Mick is pretty much gold on this post. He doesn't fall into the original AppleInsider article that twists Simon Aldous' words around and posting it here without further review.

He instead posts a direct link to the Simon Aldous interview (so we can read for ourselves on what was said), mentions proper Apple fanatic response and then Microsoft's Windows 7 team response that makes the interview moot because Simon Aldous wasn't involved in the planning or development of Windows 7 at all.

That has nothing to do with growing up. It has everything to do with accurate writing. I applaud Jason Mick on this one.


By stubeck on 11/12/2009 9:31:41 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed. A lot of Mick's articles are poor, but this isn't one of them. He's gotten better in the last month or so.


RE: Isn't it time DT and Jason Mick grew up?
By sebmel on 11/12/2009 9:44:57 AM , Rating: 2
jonmcc33:
"That has nothing to do with growing up. It has everything to do with accurate writing."

Explain this then:

Jason Mick:
"Many Apple-leaning sites, nonetheless are seizing on the quote as evidence that OS X is gaining on Windows.

Link to MANY Mac sites pointing to "Simon Aldous interview" as EVIDENCE that OS X is GAINING on Windows.

There aren't many Mac sites drawing that conclusion, in fact I can't find a single one. The reason I can't find a single one is that Mick made it up... and what he has made up is juvenile and illogical baiting.

IF Microsoft HAD copied the Mac os that would evidence if CLOSING the gap not opening it. The gap cannot rise as a result of the similarities increasing.

Mick added this typical baiting at the end of the article to deflect attention from the fact that the article is actually about internal criticism within Microsoft. Mick seeks to draw out the usual us vs. them antagonism and benefit from ad revenue.

So what does the AppleInsider article actually say?

"The similarities between Windows 7 and Apple's latest operating system upgrade, Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, were noted by The Wall Street Journal's Walt Mossberg in his review of the Microsoft software. He said he believes that the Mac OS is still the superior operating system, but only slightly."

It quotes Walt Mossberg as drawing the logical conclusion: the gap has CLOSED.

I repeat: Grow up Mr Mick.


RE: Isn't it time DT and Jason Mick grew up?
By jonmcc33 on 11/12/2009 10:14:14 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Link to MANY Mac sites pointing to "Simon Aldous interview" as EVIDENCE that OS X is GAINING on Windows. There aren't many Mac sites drawing that conclusion, in fact I can't find a single one. The reason I can't find a single one is that Mick made it up... and what he has made up is juvenile and illogical baiting.


He gave you the direct link to the AppleInsider article that is trying to feed off of the interview. There are many other websites that are now linking to the AppleInsider article. Use Google if you want to find them. That would indeed be "many".

quote:
Mick added this typical baiting at the end of the article to deflect attention from the fact that the article is actually about internal criticism within Microsoft. Mick seeks to draw out the usual us vs. them antagonism and benefit from ad revenue.


Actually, the end of the article is merely pointing out AppleInsider's bias towards Mac. Reporting major growth with one product but failing to mention major growth with another is bias .

Again, has nothing to do with "growing up" and merely accurate reporting of the facts. You seem to be the one lacking maturity in any response at this point.


RE: Isn't it time DT and Jason Mick grew up?
By sebmel on 11/12/2009 10:49:53 AM , Rating: 1
jonmcc33, you have missed the point a second time. May I suggest, this time, you read a little more slowly.

Quoting my previous post:
"Link to MANY Mac sites pointing to "Simon Aldous interview" as EVIDENCE that OS X is GAINING on Windows."

What you need to find are "Apple-leaning" sites on which articles are posted that support Mr Mick's proposition. I shall quote it again:

Jason Mick:
"Many Apple-leaning sites, nonetheless are seizing on the quote as evidence that OS X is gaining on Windows."

Now, let me use bold on some words to point out very simply what Mr. Mick is claiming:

"Many Apple-leaning sites , nonetheless are seizing on the quote as evidence that OS X is gaining on Windows."

So, my comment was about Jason Mick, and whether or not what he said about AppleInsider was correct. Should you read the AppleInsider with care you will discover, as I pointed out, that it says the exact opposite of the comment by Mr. Mick quoted about. That being that the difference in quality between Windows and Mac OSes is narrowing . It does that by quoting Walt Mossberg to that effect.

I have not found a single "Apple-leaning" site that states anything about Mac OS "gaining" on Windows as a result of Microsoft's alleged copying/inspiration... and, thus, Mr. Mick's statement is false. It is a fabrication designed to provoke a juvenile Mac vs. Windows comment war in the interests of ad revenues.

Thus, I state again: Grow up Mr. Mick.


RE: Isn't it time DT and Jason Mick grew up?
By sebmel on 11/12/2009 10:57:30 AM , Rating: 2
Incidentally, if you still are unwilling to accept my explanation of what Mr. Mick is up to just look at the icon at the top of the article... the Apple logo haircut... the implied uncritical fanaticism.

One might as well write an article about the Microsoft Zune with a logo of this guy:

http://www.romesnowboards.com/blog/wp-content/uplo...

Or perhaps one on Windows with this logo:

http://www.charlespetzold.com/PetzoldTattoo.jpg

It's juvenile Mr Mick. You lower the IQ of the site with this type of behaviour.


By Donkeyshins on 11/12/2009 3:27:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
One might as well write an article about the Microsoft Zune with a logo of this guy:

Actually, I'm pretty sure there has been at least one DT article sporting the former Mr. Zune.


RE: Isn't it time DT and Jason Mick grew up?
By jonmcc33 on 11/12/2009 11:55:15 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
...you have missed the point a second time. May I suggest, this time, you read a little more slowly.


Now you are being both rude and immature.

quote:
I have not found a single "Apple-leaning" site that states anything about Mac OS "gaining" on Windows as a result of Microsoft's alleged copying/inspiration...


So because you lack the ability to use a simple search engine it means that Jason Mick needs to grow up?

Maybe you should move onto a website more suited for you? I suggest nickjr.com for you as it will be a better fit for your maturity level.


RE: Isn't it time DT and Jason Mick grew up?
By sebmel on 11/12/2009 4:53:17 PM , Rating: 1
Having careful described the problem several times, in terms a child could understand, without the penny dropping, it is entirely polite to ask someone to read the explanation again a little slower.

In your haste to reply you have yet again only succeeded in demonstrating the same poor powers of comprehension that caused me to suggest rereading. Thus, again I suggest you have another go at reading what are after all remarkably simple concepts.

Quote jonmcc33:
"So because you lack the ability to use a simple search engine it means that Jason Mick needs to grow up?"

No, that's not even close. Search engines cannot find what does not exist.

Try again.


By boden on 11/13/2009 11:33:52 PM , Rating: 2
Sebmel,
Your logic is sound.


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