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Print 81 comment(s) - last by Spuke.. on Oct 1 at 3:35 PM


  (Source: Edmunds)
Honda refines the design of its CR-Z concept

With Toyota hogging all of the spotlight when it comes to hybrid vehicles in the United States, Honda often has to fight for attention to let the buying public that it too has hybrids on dealer lots and in its upcoming product pipeline.

Honda currently offers the more sedate-looking Civic Hybrid along with the hybrid-only Insight. Honda initially had high hopes for the second generation Insight, but has seen its latest foray into the hybrid market clobbered by Toyota's third-generation Prius in sales.

Not one to back down from a fight, Honda is prepared to assault Toyota and all other hybrid manufactures with two more hybrids which DailyTech has discussed previously. The first is the 2010 Fit Hybrid which is based on the popular Fit subcompact currently available.

The second model, the CR-Z, is also due out for the 2010 model year. Thanks to the folks at Edmunds, we now have another look at what the production version of the CR-Z will look like. Honda calls this latest version of the CR-Z a "95 percent" representation of what the production model will look when it is unveiled at the Detroit Auto show next January.

If the previous CR-Z concept reminded you of Honda's beloved CRX from the 80s and early 90s, this revised CR-Z concept simply reinforces that image. The CR-Z clearly looks like a CRX for the 21st century and is quite compact at just 161 inches long -- for comparison, a Mini Cooper S and Mazda Miata are roughly 146 inches and 157 inches in length respectively.

According to Edmunds, the production CR-Z will be sporting a 1.5-liter i-VTEC four-banger combined with Honda's latest Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) hybrid powertrain. Purists will be glad to hear that a 6-speed manual transmission will be paired with the hybrid powertrain. It's almost a guarantee, however, that Honda will makes its continuously variable transmission (CVT) available as an option.

It's still to early to know how Honda plans to price the CR-Z when it hits the market next year, but Honda would likely price it in the $19,000 to $25,000 range.



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RE: Looks great from the front....
By retrospooty on 9/30/2009 12:24:11 AM , Rating: 4
I was just thinking that exact same thing. It seems like every year the asses get higher up, there is barely any rear window at all. Viewability sucks.

Also, you will never be able to fit a bucket of chicken through the low profile side windows.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By lelias2k on 9/30/2009 1:20:18 AM , Rating: 2
I think you meant visibility.

Sorry for being a pain...


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Samus on 9/30/2009 1:43:52 AM , Rating: 3
The ass-ended uglyness isn't the vehicle manufactures faults' as they have to design within the European NCAP and American DOT guidelines, the former which recently required vehicle bumper heights to be raised substantially higher as to raise the tail lights and protect rear passengers from larger vehicles. It unfortunately looks terrible, especially on the new Mustang (which isn't even marketed in the EU.) The bonnet must now slope upward and bumpers must have a soft breakaway subframe (usually was just steel rebar) to help protect pedestrians. At one point there was a proposal to require tail lights to be 1 meter off the pavement (think ford focus or honda crv) which I think isn't such a bad idea, but was obviously impractical because many vehicles (specifically roadsters and most sports cars) make that design proposal almost impossible)

USDOT usually copies the EuroNCAP after awhile, so looking at current NCAP guidelines and requirements gives you a good idea how cars are going to 'have' to look in the future...

http://www.euroncap.com/guidelines.aspx


RE: Looks great from the front....
By FITCamaro on 9/30/09, Rating: 0
RE: Looks great from the front....
By Samus on 9/30/2009 8:13:50 AM , Rating: 2
Seriously...it should be OUR decision wether or not WE want to drive a safe car. Even if I have to waive my legal rights over some liability bull, sign away ;)


RE: Looks great from the front....
By FITCarnaro on 9/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: Looks great from the front....
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 9/30/2009 9:35:18 AM , Rating: 4
Sheesh, has Obama done anything you actually DO like? Or would that be too tough for you to admit? I get rather suspect of people's motives when all they can talk about is negative stuff about a person or deliver backhanded compliments.

I mean, with the exception of Iraq and No Child Left Behind, I didn't really have any major beefs with the Bush.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Steve1981 on 9/30/2009 9:36:50 AM , Rating: 3
I'd recommend looking a little closer at who actually posted.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Reclaimer77 on 9/30/2009 11:00:37 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
Sheesh, has Obama done anything you actually DO like?


....

Can you give me some examples of something he's done that we SHOULD like ???


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Reclaimer77 on 9/30/2009 4:08:32 PM , Rating: 2
I'm still waiting. This honestly wasn't a troll. Please, for the love of god, tell me one good thing he's done that I should be happy about ? Not just me, but my future children, if I should ever be as stupid to bring children into this world who won't have the opportunities that I had when growing up.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By redbone75 on 9/30/2009 6:56:20 PM , Rating: 3
Let's just hope you don't bring children into this world, period.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Reclaimer77 on 9/30/2009 9:43:19 PM , Rating: 1
Don't worry. Unlike most of the Obama supporters, I actually want to make sure that when I have children, they won't be a burden on society.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By redbone75 on 9/30/2009 10:21:36 PM , Rating: 1
As expected, your reply leads me to believe that, like many Obama detractors, you are a bigoted <insert profane insult here>. You obviously think that most people who voted for Obama are at or below the poverty line and think that this president will be their meal ticket. I'm spending more time on you than I normally would a creature of your ilk, so let me cut it short. Even if you were to bring children in this world, who is to say that with proper guidance, support, and love those children will grow up to be burdens on society instead of positive contributors to it? Or, since I believe you to be a person who can provide well for yourself (or your mother does so for you) why would your children be a burden on society if you can provide for them? I'm done dumbing down for the day. You may continue your Obama bashing.


By Reclaimer77 on 9/30/2009 10:46:21 PM , Rating: 1
Oh ofcourse, the race card. Thanks Mr. Carter. It makes me sick that anyone who has a problem with this administration is labeled a racist.

Well you can shove it up your ass. I won't be bullied or intimidated by you politically correct assholes into silence.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Spuke on 10/1/2009 3:19:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
As expected, your reply leads me to believe that, like many Obama detractors, you are a bigoted <insert profane insult here>.
Can you state one reason why he would be considered a racist? I also disagree with some of Obama's policies and I am black. Would I be a racist too? I am also waiting for an example as to why Reclaimer77 should like Obama's policies. I see personal attacks but no reasons why he should change his mind.


By Reclaimer77 on 10/1/2009 3:24:49 PM , Rating: 2
Thank you Spuke ! Great post btw.

And yes, I'm STILL waiting for why I should be optimistic, in the least, about this administration.

Spuke you see personal attacks because it's all they have. The left, historically, has NEVER been able to legitimately defend their position on anything. Because if they actually had to straight up tell people what they believed in, nobody would go along with it.

Frankly I don't know what I am. Nancy Pillosy said I was a "nazi", and Carter says I'm a racist. Hmmmm which one should I pick ?


By FITCamaro on 9/30/2009 12:07:28 PM , Rating: 1
*waves*

Hi Brandon. I'm over here.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By FITCamaro on 9/30/2009 12:14:02 PM , Rating: 4
And honestly no. What should I have liked exactly?

Stimulus? No.
Wanting to close Gitmo? No. (of course he's realizing how hard that is)
His supposed transparency that blocks the release of any information that would make him look bad or wrong? No.
Health care? No.
Cap and trade? No.
Net neutrality? Agree with the idea but not the method.
Position on Afghanistan? He's dropping the ball and taking a few weeks to think about it while not even talking to the commander in the field about it. Going with Oprah to get the Olympics in Shitcago is clearly a larger issue.

Other than that what is there? He's spent the rest of the time still campaigning for his causes and putting his nose where it doesn't belong.

Oh wait. I agreed with him that Kayne West is a jackass.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Reclaimer77 on 9/30/2009 12:30:27 PM , Rating: 3
I love how he campaigned on "no more government earmarks, smaller government, less corruption, more efficiency...."

And in the first 90 days ushers in historically unprecidented levels of all of the above. Of course I didn't believe what he campaigned on, but plenty of idiots apparently did.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By AEvangel on 9/30/2009 7:39:34 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and lets not forget that he is still continuing the war mongering practices of the Neo-Cons that got us drug into Iraq fiasco, by now lying about Iran and the media is right in line with him, just like they were with Bush.

To use some language from Berlusconi he is just a Tanned Bush.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Spuke on 10/1/2009 3:24:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
by now lying about Iran and the media is right in line with him, just like they were with Bush.
What about Iran did Obama lie about?


RE: Looks great from the front....
By rtrski on 9/30/2009 9:49:40 AM , Rating: 1
Watch it mate. I'm an Obama-doubting, conservative, gun-owning, pro-business, defense-engineer, buzzcut taxpayer who happens to drive a Prius because he has a 50 mile commute each way. And I'm at that age where I got my sportscar needs out of my system earlier but before the age where the 'mid-life' need for horsepower re-asserts itself a second time, so a car is just personal transport to me, nothing more.

Not all hybrids belong to tree-hugging socialist hippie vegans. Just do me a favor and look for the rainbow, peace-sign, or greenpeach (<-intentional) bumper sticker and THEN feel free to run them over.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Hare on 9/30/2009 9:54:48 AM , Rating: 2
Have you thought about owning a diesel VW, Audi or something similar with good MPG figure, looks that don't make your eyes bleed etc. I don't really understand people who buy hybrids for long distance commuting. Suburban areas, sure but highways?


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 9/30/2009 10:04:28 AM , Rating: 1
The VW Jetta TDI doesn't come anywhere close to 50 mpg combined, nor does any Audi available in the U.S.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Keeir on 9/30/2009 12:07:19 PM , Rating: 2
Reading comprehension is a good thing

HWY EPA Ratings

Jetta TDI 41 (Pump 2.0)
A3 TDI 42 (Common Rail 2.0, Starting Nov. 2009)
Prius 48

Over 25,000 mostly HWY miles, thats ~80 gallons a year. The total difference going from a Prius --> A3 TDI is ~2-3 dollars a day (Cost + Fuel) and going from a Prius --> Jetta TDI is ~ 1 dollar a day (Cost + Fuel).

Sure we could argue that a stripper Prius at 22,400 is better deal than an in comparison loaded A3 TDI 29,950. But when you add some of the features of the A3 like leather seating, fog lights, etc, that comparable Prius is north of 26,000.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Keeir on 9/30/2009 12:11:04 PM , Rating: 2
And just in case there is any confusion, if I am driving 25,000 miles a year, thats more than 1 hour a day in the car, each and every day. I personally would spring for the extra 2-3 dollars for the A3 (Total Car cost per day ~14 for the Prius and ~17 for the A3)


RE: Looks great from the front....
By rtrski on 10/1/2009 10:54:26 AM , Rating: 2
Just curious if your daily cost estimates include the $3100 tax credit I got on the Pri (but would not have been available for the Jetta TDI in 2005), and maintenance? Note that's a curiosity not a refutation - I don't know the answer.

So far all I've had to do to the Pri is regular scheduled maintenance and a 2nd set of tires, and I'm at 106k miles or so. My older (non-TDI) 2001 Jetta was way more costly in its first 4 years, even requiring a break overhaul that really ticked me off as it happened inside of 36k miles (pads gone). And no, I'm not a leadfoot, else I'd not be driving a Pri, would I? :)

It's "a" solution, for me, didn't say it was "the" solution. Glad you like your Audi.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Spuke on 9/30/2009 12:46:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A3 TDI
Still can't believe they're actually bring that car here.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Keeir on 9/30/2009 1:00:21 PM , Rating: 2
"Still can't believe they're actually bring that car here. "

Audi has to do something to raise thier CAFE rating.... since "small, lighter, more efficient" doesn't really cut it for AWD luxury cars.

What I would really like is the 168 hp, 258 ft-lb 2.0 Engine (current is 138 hp/236 ft-lb) in a quattro... or even better yet the 168 hp driving a A5 quattro (EST EPA 28/37)


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Spuke on 9/30/2009 3:02:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Audi has to do something to raise thier CAFE rating
I can't imagine that their CAFE rating is really that bad considering that most of their cars sell with the 4 cyl. Besides, most of the luxury automakers just pay the fine and roll that into the cost of the car.

quote:
What I would really like is the 168 hp, 258 ft-lb 2.0 Engine
Is this a Euro only motor? The Audi website says the 140hp diesel is going to be in the A3 TDI.

And if I had to choose, I'd rather have the BMW 123d with 201hp and 295 lb-ft. It would be a good car for the wife.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Keeir on 9/30/2009 5:06:45 PM , Rating: 2
"I can't imagine that their CAFE rating is really that bad considering that most of their cars sell with the 4 cyl. Besides, most of the luxury automakers just pay the fine and roll that into the cost of the car."

Maybe I should rephrase. The 2.0T engine is great, but it doesn't meet current targets for CAFE in most of the models. Going forward with CAFE rising, fines could get really problematic. Companies with Diesel already may find it cheaper to solve the emissions issue than pay the steaper fines.

Why else is BMW willing shave 4,500 off the cost of the excellent 335d? Come-on, <6 sec burner of a car that when driven sedately gets above 35 mpg!? (More like 40+ in highway cruise mode) That makes even me want to buy it, even though I have hated every BMW I ever sat in


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Spuke on 10/1/2009 3:31:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why else is BMW willing shave 4,500 off the cost of the excellent 335d?
Well, I'll admit, it's not off the table for me but I have another three years before I'm even thinking about another car. Hopefully, BMW will put a DCT in there cause I ain't driving no automatic. Oh, and they need to drop the diesel motor into a coupe body too. I'm not asking for too much, am I?


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Xaser04 on 10/1/2009 10:24:49 AM , Rating: 2
I am genuinely suprised that neither the A3 2.0TDI Quattro (170PS) and A5 2.0TDI (170PS) are available in the US. Both are readily available here in the UK (just like the 143ps models (CR unit replacing the 140PS PD unit)).

I have the 170PS 2.0TDI CR unit in my Skoda Octavia vRS, coming down for a 250PS Leon Cupra (2.0TFSI S3 engine) I was expecting a slug but I have been pleasantly suprised by the performance (8 seconds to 62mph is perfectly adequete as is the mid range) and general refinement of the engine (especially compared to the old PD units), the economy is great too (I am currently averaging 50mpg (imperial)).

Oh and 230bhp+ with a stage 2 remap, Full Turbo back and DPF removal.



RE: Looks great from the front....
By Spuke on 10/1/2009 3:35:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I am genuinely suprised that neither the A3 2.0TDI Quattro (170PS) and A5 2.0TDI (170PS) are available in the US.
Diesel's not very popular here in the US but hopefully that will change. So far, it's not making much of a dent.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By FITCamaro on 9/30/2009 12:08:24 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah but it comes close enough and would be a hell of a lot more fun.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By pcfxer on 10/1/2009 8:23:43 AM , Rating: 2
Diesels aren't what we (NAs) think about. The Europeans have some higher revving, FAST diesels out there that are quieter than the "high feature" engines that american's and jap's are selling now.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By rtrski on 10/1/2009 10:50:28 AM , Rating: 2
Thought about it, sure. I bought the Pri back in 2001, it's at 106k miles right now and I've got 9 months left on the loan (but its not 'upside down' LTV). I don't recall an Audi with comparable mileage available when I bought, the Jetta TDI was definitely available, and cheaper, but with less 'creature comforts'.

The 'eyes bleed' bit is always going to be subjective; I don't mind the look (of either, the 2001 Jettas were kinda fun in a semi-boxy oldschool way). And the Pri I got did run into $27k+ territory with the full up mapping, etc etc. But at the time I bought there was also the $3100 tax credit, which made it closer to a wash to an equally-well-trimmed out (top end basically) then-year Jetta.

Never said it was the "Only" solution...just said buying one didn't presuppose bark-encircling tendancies. :) As of right now, no need to trade-out of it as long as I keep getting north of 49mpg lifetime average MPG. Batteries are warranteed for another 45k miles, and reports from the field are of 200k mile expectations well in excess of the warantee anyway. So far I've done nothing to the car but regular scheduled maintenance (oil/filters and less frequent coolant changes) and put a 2nd set of tires on it.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By rtrski on 10/1/2009 10:56:39 AM , Rating: 2
OOPS - scratch 2001 above and replace with 2005. This is the 2nd gen Pri, and the tax credit didn't exist on the 2001 I don't think. Sorry for confusion, my prior car was a 2001 (non-TDI, base gas engine) Jetta, but I didn't have the long commute until 2005 which prompted the Prius purchase.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By FITCarnaro on 9/30/09, Rating: 0
By Reclaimer77 on 9/30/2009 12:32:10 PM , Rating: 2
lol you downrate trolls suck. This was funny, admit it.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By ChronoReverse on 9/30/2009 1:22:09 AM , Rating: 2
Hmm, I've sat in a Prius before and I noted that rear visibility isn't that bad since the pane is also clear. There's that horizontal break between the panes, but it's not as bad as you seem to imply.


By retrospooty on 9/30/2009 8:22:57 AM , Rating: 3
I was referring to Honda's in general - every year on every model including acura's the rear gets higher and the rear window gets smaller. I am 6 feet tall and visibility sucks. worse for shorter people.

Now look at this CRZ, there is barely any rear window at all =P


RE: Looks great from the front....
By randomposter on 9/30/2009 9:18:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Also, you will never be able to fit a bucket of chicken through the low profile side windows.

Every time I begin to have some hope that civilization isn't hopelessly doomed, somebody goes and says something like this.


By Steve1981 on 9/30/2009 9:27:13 AM , Rating: 3
Don't fret. My magic picture box tells me humanity will survive just fine. We will have star-ships and no one will go hungry because they invented replicators which just create food out of thin air!


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Hiawa23 on 9/30/2009 10:41:31 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Also, you will never be able to fit a bucket of chicken through the low profile side windows.


Every time I begin to have some hope that civilization isn't hopelessly doomed, somebody goes and says something like this.

Yeah, we's black folk love us some fried chicken. Hey, I haven't lost faith, people are going to be who they are, some good some bad, some haters some not. We black folk also love our rims loud music & the most important reasons why I would not buy one of these Prius or Honda knockoff is there would be no place to put my subs. Talk about stereotypes, LOL.


RE: Looks great from the front....
By Visual on 9/30/2009 10:40:44 AM , Rating: 2
I don't find it ugly, it's actually kinda cool when cars dont look the same and have such interesting designs. If rear visibility is not bad with this design, I like it.
But I wouldn't buy a two-seater regardless of how much "sports" hype it has.


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