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Motion controller and even Dreamcast exclusives may arrive in the near future

Sony's recent console update, the PS3 Slim, has been called "The Worst Kept Secret of the Internet," as pictures of the unit's box were originally leaked nearly four months before its official release. Now that the Slim is available for public purchase, another juicy leak has sprung up giving hints at Sony's direction for the future, no doubt to the chagrin of SCEA head Jack Tretton.

The current leak comes via the Sega of America FTP website. Published notes from a meeting with Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) that took place August 5th were temporarily available on the SEGA PR FTP site; the document "scea_meeting_aug_5th_notes_bh.doc" has since been pulled from the FTP site, but several copies were downloaded before it was removed. Announcements were made about several upcoming games and potential console bundles for both the PSP and PS3, but the most interesting parts are Sony's plans for a PS3 motion controller, PS2 emulation on the PS3, and even Dreamcast titles on the PlayStation Network.

The meeting minutes refer to Sony's upcoming motion-sensing device as a "motion controller" indicating that it will more closely resemble Nintendo's Wii Remote rather than Microsoft's Project Natal. Sega's "Virtua Tennis" is indicated as a piece of software that would "work well" with the device. Plans are to launch the device in spring of 2010, with plans to offer a bundle with PS3 hardware and projected sales of 4-5 million units worldwide.

Tagged as "Confidential" in the minutes is the "PS2 Emulator for PS3" heading, beneath which can be found quite possibly the most significant leak of the entire memo - SCEA's intent to offer the entire range of PS2 titles via the PlayStation Network. There is no mention of an ability to play disc-based PS2 titles, but the presence of an emulator on the PS3 hardware at least gives it the potential for the future.

Previous Dreamcast titles such as Rez, Ikaruga, and Soul Caliber have appeared on XBLA in the past, but Sony appears to be seeking exclusivity for Dreamcast titles, with promises of marketing support in exchange for the exclusivity.

The full content of the meeting minutes can be found circulating the Internet; neither SCEA nor SEGA have made any official response to the leaks at this time.

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Nickels and Dimes
By novacthall on 9/23/2009 6:11:17 PM , Rating: 1
So I can't play one of the fifty PS2 games I own on PS3, but I can buy them again to play on the console? Thanks?

Why so consumer unfriendly? PS3 had PS2 hardware emulation in it. They took it out. Then it had a form of software emulation in it. That got the axe, too. Now the thing plays PS3 games, but also PS1 games. There's a huge, gaping hole in the capability of the system. For what? Additional monetization of existing capability? I didn't have to pay a dime to play my PS1 games on my PS2.

What really drives me up a wall is the corporate doublespeak. Coming out the gate they were adamant that backwards compatibility is a key defining ability of the Playstation brand. Nice! So we'll cut it out. Eh? But the damn thing still plays PS1 games!

I'm guessing they want me to pay to play the fifty-something Dreamcast games I have, too? Screw that.

I really don't get Sony, sometimes. And I'm a stockholder.




RE: Nickels and Dimes
By adiposity on 9/23/2009 6:40:55 PM , Rating: 5
Disclaimer: I own a 20GB PS3 (fully backwards compatible).

I really have a hard time sympathizing with those that complain about lack of backwards compatibility on the current PS3s. I mean, I know it would be nice to have, but honestly there's no justification for the complaints.

First of all, Sony delivered on full backwards compatibility with the launch PS3s, and kept models that had at least "pretty good" b.c. for several years.

Second, most PS3 owners I know find that they aren't playing their PS2 games after a while. No surprise here--the PS3 games are much better with few exceptions. So maybe backwards compatibility 3 years after the launch of a next-gen system isn't as important anymore (there are plenty of PS3 games, now).

Third, if you want backwards compatibility that badly, you can still get 60/20GB models from Gamestop, etc. Yeah, I know, not as nice as slim with backwards compatibility, but you can do it if it matters that much to you.

Fourth, people had their chance to buy the backwards compatible models. But prices were too high, and Sony needed to stop burning money at the same time as lowering price. Removing the PS2 hardware helped them do this. Although playing PS2 games was a selling point originally, obviously it wasn't a big enough deal to get people to pay $500-$600. The bottom line is most users want to play the PS3 games and it's waste of their/Sony's money to include those chips when they will never be used. It's the pragmatic choice, and it probably helped with the conversion to the Slim.

Finally, I think a better choice for everyone would have been an add-in module that gave backwards compatibility. It could cost $50 or so, enough to cover Sony's costs. Then we could see how badly people really wanted this feature. I'm guessing less than 10% of buyers would get it, at this point. I know I haven't played a PS2 game in over a year (and I even have some I never played, yet).

It seems to me like people want everything for less. Every time a price cut came and Sony cut more backwards compatibility, people complained. But these were the same people that weren't willing to buy the hardware when it was expensive and had the feature they wanted. They just wanted the best system for the lowest price. It would be nice, but reality says Sony is wasting money if they include backwards compatible hardware with every system.

quote:
So I can't play one of the fifty PS2 games I own on PS3, but I can buy them again to play on the console? Thanks?


You have 50 PS2 games (that you apparently want to play), but didn't buy a backwards compatible PS3 model....sorry, the idiot here isn't Sony. But if you want to play those PS2 games, they still work on a PS2!

It's not Sony's fault you already own a game they are now re-releasing. Should they not release it because you own a previous release?

quote:
There's a huge, gaping hole in the capability of the system. For what? Additional monetization of existing capability? I didn't have to pay a dime to play my PS1 games on my PS2.


It may be to make money on PS2 games. But probably it's to save money on mostly unused hardware. These PS2 games will probably have to be ported somewhat and look better than real PS2 games on a 60/20 model.

quote:
What really drives me up a wall is the corporate doublespeak. Coming out the gate they were adamant that backwards compatibility is a key defining ability of the Playstation brand. Nice! So we'll cut it out. Eh? But the damn thing still plays PS1 games!


They tried to sell that and it didn't move enough systems. So they recognized that what people mostly wanted, was new, cool games on the system. Best way to accomplish that was to move more systems (lower price) and get more games made. If they had done what you wanted, fewer PS3s would have sold, and developers would want to make games for PS3 less. As for PS1, they can do it in SOFTWARE, that's why they didn't remove it. Maybe someday they can do PS2 in software.

quote:
I'm guessing they want me to pay to play the fifty-something Dreamcast games I have, too? Screw that.


Uh, if you want the ability to play them on PS3, yes (duh). I mean, they would be a port, right? Usually you pay for ports of games. The fact that you own it on the other system is not Sony's fault. If anything you should be grateful for the additional option.

-Dan


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By Pyro Yuy on 9/24/2009 11:12:10 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
First of all, Sony delivered on full backwards compatibility with the launch PS3s, and kept models that had at least "pretty good" b.c. for several years.


It's only been out for 3 years, and they only did BC for about a year and a half tops.

quote:
Second, most PS3 owners I know find that they aren't playing their PS2 games after a while. No surprise here--the PS3 games are much better with few exceptions. So maybe backwards compatibility 3 years after the launch of a next-gen system isn't as important anymore (there are plenty of PS3 games, now).


Yeah, that's cause they couldn't.

quote:
Fourth, people had their chance to buy the backwards compatible models. But prices were too high, and Sony needed to stop burning money at the same time as lowering price. Removing the PS2 hardware helped them do this. Although playing PS2 games was a selling point originally, obviously it wasn't a big enough deal to get people to pay $500-$600. The bottom line is most users want to play the PS3 games and it's waste of their/Sony's money to include those chips when they will never be used. It's the pragmatic choice, and it probably helped with the conversion to the Slim.


And not everyone had a chance, I was deployed to the sandbox most the entire time the BC versions were out, I was only around for the initial release. Or even a better case, you get it stolen!!! Then how will you get a BC one to replace it other than paying triple of what it was originally worth. (okay, you can pick one up for about four and a quarter at gamestop last I checked, but they never have one in)

Hey, wipe your chin off, you got something there.

Now I'm jumping off your back... and onto the back of sony.
They were trying to push the fact that the PS3 was a better deal per $ than the 360. Fanbois were crying about that, but always forgot the $100 acessory that did BC for them... oh I mean a ps2!

But if they did do BC again, I would be happy, I'd have one less consol stuck to my TV, and hopefully suck up less power.

Funny thing, I only made this account to post this...

And about that guy saying the DC was out dated... sure it's old, but it's the first consol to do HD.


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By adiposity on 9/24/2009 2:47:40 PM , Rating: 2
You can still get PS3 60GB on ebay easily. They don't cost that much, either (just checked, there are some for $330 buy it now). So don't whine too much...

quote:
Yeah, that's cause they couldn't.


All my friends have launch PS3s, except one that bought an 80GB (which still has b.c., and works on all his games but one). So no, they can play PS2 games, just don't.

I agree it sucks there's no b.c., maybe they will add it back when it gets cheaper. But for now the important thing is to help people who want PS3 games, get PS3s cheap. If you want PS2 games, PS2s are still out there. And so are 60GB PS3s if that's what you want...

BTW, my first 20GB ps3 WAS stolen. From my house. I bought another on ebay about a year ago. No problem.

-Dan


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By ExarKun333 on 9/24/2009 4:24:48 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, please let me buy an old (and probably) used PS3 built on old technology that uses a lot more power so I can play PS2 games.

Your whole argument is FAIL.

Sony needs to wise-up and provide BC on all their SKUs. I really don't care if they also offer the ability to buy games online, but at least let us play our discs on the PS3 system. The PS3 games suck anyway, so why not let us play some good titles on it?


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By adiposity on 9/24/2009 6:48:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Your whole argument is FAIL.

Sony needs to wise-up and provide BC on all their SKUs. I really don't care if they also offer the ability to buy games online, but at least let us play our discs on the PS3 system. The PS3 games suck anyway, so why not let us play some good titles on it?


If PS3 games all suck, why don't you just get a PS2? You don't make any sense...

Sony did wise up, they realized that offering b.c. was not selling their systems. More consoles per month have sold since they dropped the bc, so obviously they were right.

As for "old technology," the 60/20 models are fine. They are quiet and reliable. The only thing "new" about the $300 model is smaller chip size, and honestly...who cares unless you are worried about $2 on your power bill?

-Dan


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By MrPoletski on 9/28/2009 10:45:11 AM , Rating: 2
Can everybody please not forget that emulation of another piece of hardware is no simple task and PS2 emulation has always been extremely difficult on every platform that has tried it .


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By afkrotch on 9/25/2009 4:35:03 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Now I'm jumping off your back... and onto the back of sony.
They were trying to push the fact that the PS3 was a better deal per $ than the 360. Fanbois were crying about that, but always forgot the $100 acessory that did BC for them... oh I mean a ps2!


Pretty much just about everyone who was willing to pay $400+ on a PS3, already had a PS2. Hell, I had two PS2s, when I bought the PS3.

As of right now, I still have two PS2s, since the PS3 doesn't support PS2 controllers.

The PS3 launched with almost 100% BC, then shifted to their software BC. Now, none. 360 launched with crap BC, which they fixed up, but even then, it was never as good as Sony's original hardware BC. Complaints seem pretty muffled on that front.


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By crazyblackman on 9/23/09, Rating: 0
RE: Nickels and Dimes
By bighairycamel on 9/23/2009 11:21:50 PM , Rating: 2
I hope you kept your PS2 then, cause any alternative will cost you money.

You can either
A) Buy a new PS2 ($99)
B) Rebuy the games you liked the most on PSN ($10-30 per I'm guessing)
C) Hold your breath until a backwards compatible PS3 gets released ($300)

Personally I don't mind it. The few stand out PS2 games I would replay are worth another $30 to me. And it's not like this is anything new, Sony ditched PS1 BC as a side effect of ditching PS2 BC and PS1 games have been available since nearly day one.


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By geddarkstorm on 9/24/2009 1:15:08 PM , Rating: 2
What Sony should do, or what would be very nice, would be if you could just insert a PS2 disc into the PS3 and be given free access to download the game again over PSN. There must be some sort of internal hash system that allows the PS3 to know what game it's reading and if its valid. At least, I would hope.


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By adiposity on 9/24/2009 6:49:54 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, I agree with this, but it will still only help if they have ported that particular game.

-Dan


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By afkrotch on 9/25/2009 4:53:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
What Sony should do, or what would be very nice, would be if you could just insert a PS2 disc into the PS3 and be given free access to download the game again over PSN. There must be some sort of internal hash system that allows the PS3 to know what game it's reading and if its valid. At least, I would hope.


Ya, sounds like a great idea. Let me go borrow all my friend's old PS2 games, so I can put them on my PS3 hdd.

About the only way to do this would be to have you send the PS2 game back to Sony, then they'd go into your account and add the game that way. That method would leave Sony with a lot of PS2 games they'd have to dispose of, so that wouldn't happen.

Any kind of method you can think of, would be a loss of money to Sony, unless they simply sell the game on PSN.

I'd rather see like a year to cost type of scheme. Games released the 1st year the PS2 was around should be $0.25. Then it doubles with each year.

$0.25 $0.50, $1, $2, $4, $8, $16, $32.

Games released this year will vary in cost, as they are pretty much still new. Then when the year ends, the $0.25 games will just become free and the pricing shifts over. 2nd year games will take the $0.25 price and so on.

The only way I'd see pricing to be different, is if the developer of those games remakes the old games with new additions or something. Like better graphics, online play, more levels, etc.


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By MrPoletski on 9/28/2009 10:48:23 AM , Rating: 2
Such a scheme is a nice idea, but would he hacked to hell by people trying to get free games.

Then when they stop that, legitimate game owners will whine because their copy is scratched and isn't recognised etc..

Can of worms, so Sony won't do it.

Perhaps a mail in your old game with all its bits for a rebate coupon might work, but that'd be a very expensive undertaking and rather unneccesary because people are gonna buy the games up anyway.


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By MrBlastman on 9/24/2009 1:24:50 PM , Rating: 2
... And this is why I am a PC gamer. :)

I want to play an old DOS game--oh wait! I load them up on Dosbox! (I got Wing Commander 3 w/video off the CD running the other night, I was extremely impressed).

I want to play an old post-DOS game... no big deal, I just start it up or dual boot into Windows 98(there are some exceptions such as maybe needing an older video card, but you can plug those into slots). None of this console-shuffle with cords, wires, controllers or all that junk.

The price of entry is a lot higher, but the versatility is unmatched with any console so far.


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By afkrotch on 9/25/2009 4:58:22 AM , Rating: 2
Except that PC gamers have no way to play many console games. There's still no good PS2 emulator, PS3 emulator, or Xbox 360 emulator.

The reason I have multiple PCs and multiple consoles.


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By adiposity on 9/27/2009 3:46:36 PM , Rating: 2
You have a point here, but there is a good PS2 emulator, in fact there are several that work pretty well.

-Dan


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By MrPoletski on 9/28/2009 10:52:57 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
....The reason I have multiple PCs and multiple consoles.


I thought that was because you're a geek? ;)))

Good luck finding a PS3 emulator! mind you, this is the kind of thing you can start using GPGPU abilities for now, because modern PC GPU's certainly wouldn't need all their rendering power to draw PS3 games.

I don't imagine the GPU's of DX11 onwards are particularly different in concept to the cell architecture. Modern CPUs certainly are though. Hell, Larrabee might be a great candidate for PS3 emulation.


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By walk2k on 9/25/2009 5:36:59 PM , Rating: 2
Plus, you need a TV!! And a chair to sit in!! And clothes to wear, and a house to put everything in, and 3 hookers to play with since you don't have any friends!!!

THANKS A LOT SONY!!!!11111eleven


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By tmouse on 9/29/2009 8:22:03 AM , Rating: 2
Technically speaking, if you do not have any friends and have 3 hookers to play with you do not need clothes to wear.


RE: Nickels and Dimes
By Aertea on 9/30/2009 10:24:07 AM , Rating: 2
Suppose they did re-enable backwards compatibility for ps2 games, who really benefits?

Take into account that most PS2 games aren't sold new anymore. Guess who doesn't get a dime from used game sales? Yea, Sony. The one who would actually stand to make the most money off Sony enabling BC is none other than Gamestop.

Sony resolves this issue by making themselves the sole distributor of Backwards Compatible games, ensuring that they get every penny to themselves. As a stockholder, isn't that exactly what you want?

As a consumer, I'd like BC simply for the convenience, but its not a necessity. If you have a library of PS2 games, you likely already own a PS2. If you want to play a PS2 game and don't own a PS2, you will be able to buy them directly from Sony without needing to pay for additional hardware.


Use PC based emulator
By AnnihilatorX on 9/26/2009 8:12:01 AM , Rating: 2
Offering an emulator on the condition that you need to re-buy your games? Ridiculous.

If you have a powerful quadcore PC with the later generation graphic cards, pcsx2 emulator for the PC is still in active development and is quite compatible, especially with the recent verions, with many PS2 titles.




RE: Use PC based emulator
By MrPoletski on 9/28/2009 10:54:15 AM , Rating: 2
how well does it play Tekken 5?


RE: Use PC based emulator
By AnnihilatorX on 9/29/2009 5:29:06 AM , Rating: 2
Playable, no problem at all


RE: Use PC based emulator
By jdietz on 10/2/2009 1:08:01 AM , Rating: 2
How about
1) Download for free if the disc is in the drive and
2) Only play if the disc is in the drive
There could be a separate version you pay for if you don't own the original game and that can be played without the disc.

My thinking is the games will require some modification so you will not be able to play with the data on the disc alone.


"You can bet that Sony built a long-term business plan about being successful in Japan and that business plan is crumbling." -- Peter Moore, 24 hours before his Microsoft resignation

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