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Blog: Gadgets Finally, a "Get a Mac" Commercial I Can Appreciate
Jason Mick (Blog) - September 22, 2009 8:38 AM
Print E-mail del.icio.us 27 comment(s) - last by BailoutBenny.. on Sep 29 at 10:34 AM

Why can't Apple commercials all emphasize the many strengths of the company's products -- like great battery life, light weight, and sleek form factors -- rather than resorting to unseemly and tactless smear campaigns?  (Source: Gentoo Linux on Apple MacBook Pro Core2Duo)
A little honesty could get Apple a lot farther

A lot of people get confused when I write pieces on Apple Inc.  If some contain criticism, such as customers complaining of poor battery life with iPhone OS v3.1, or MacBook owners suffering from display problems, its not an attack on the products.  Rather it's an acknowledgment that Apple is a market leader and that it faces the greater pressure and scrutiny of such a prestigious position.

Let's face it -- the iPhone is the best smartphone in the industry.  For a while, before it got MMS, video, or copy and paste, you could make a modest argument that competitors gave it a run for its money.  Now it's placed itself as the clear leader.  And Apple's computers have also evolved, with incredible batteries, light weight, and the attractive aluminum casing.  In short, Apple's got a lot going for it (enough to convince DailyTech's Senior Editor to go Mac, in fact!).

So why have I been a bit irritated at Apple lately?  Well it comes down to an image problem.  You see, Apple insists on continuing a series of deceptive commercials called "Get a Mac".  Clearly attacks on Microsoft's Windows, the commercials represent arguably the longest running advertising attack campaign on the market (the longest running one I can think of at least).  That kind of negativity is downright depressing.

What's more depressing is that the commercials never feature Apple's strengths.  Instead they make vague aspersions about Window's "bugginess", "crashes", and "freezing".  In the last 10 years of my friends and I using Linux, OS X, and Windows operating systems, Linux and OS X operating systems (and their associated software) froze or crashed arguably more frequently than Windows and its associated software!  And while security claims might be less of a stretch, its still an unfair comparison stemming from OS X's safety through obscurity (holding less than 10 percent of the market does have some advantages).

I can stand some attack commercials.  Verizon has been running Blackberry commercials belittling its competitors networks.  Well, at least it's honest -- in many states, Verizon does enjoy much better coverage than AT&T and T-Mobile, and even Sprint in some cases.

Better yet is the positive commercials about the iPhone.  These brilliant commercials feature the product and highlight its many strengths.  Honestly, who came up with such a brilliant idea?  Give that man or woman a raise!  But seriously, how hard is it to realize that when you have a great product you should be focusing on its strengths, not trying to carry out a smarmy smear campaign against the competition?

So it was with great joy when during Sunday football watching I finally saw a "Get a Mac" commercial I could appreciate.  In the new ad, PC and Mac are their usual selves, but this time the commercial points out Macs' long battery life and trip-free detachable cords, which are contrasted with humorous "inventions" from PC like protective bubble wrap, extension cords, and arm drink holders.  Perhaps it was a bit insulting, but at least it emphasized Apple's strengths.

Not content with letting me have a good evening, Apple had to air another commercial later in the segment, which returned to its old ways.  In the spot PC hires a burly assistant to attract a female customers, but is ultimately scorned for its "crashes", "malware" and "bugginess".  Bah, come on Apple, you have good products, don't ruin it with a bunch of negativity!  I can only hope the new commercial is the direction of ones to come.

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This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled
Sigh...
By amanojaku on 9/22/2009 10:05:44 AM , Rating: 5
Jason, Jason...

quote:
A little honesty could get Apple a lot farther
Correction: Honesty is necessary, but large price drop and an even larger increase in QA could get Apple a lot farther. An OS that runs on any hardware out of the box would be nice, too. And get rid of those damn Nazi tactics.

quote:
A lot of people get confused when I write pieces on Apple Inc.
No, I'd say we understand the articles quiet well. You just don't like our criticism.

quote:
Rather it's an acknowledgment that Apple is a market leader and that it faces the greater pressure and scrutiny of such a prestigious position.
This is only true for the iPod and iPhone, markets that are the only things keeping Apple in the public view. Apple is NOT competitive in the PC space, despite it's loyal following. In fact, I see an increasing number Mac purchases that run Windows. God forbid a PC manufacturer makes an all-aluminum system. Oh wait, they can't: Apple will likely sue!

quote:
Let's face it -- the iPhone is the best smartphone in the industry. For a while, before it got MMS, video, or copy and paste, you could make a modest argument that competitors gave it a run for its money.
That's a matter of opinion. Corporations hate it because it doesn't integrate well, even to this day. A smartphone's largest user base is corporate users. The iPhone simply made it attractive for non-corporate users to get a device that was more than a phone or texting device. They still don't like it much. I would argue that the Blackberry is still dominant, and the Pre is doing a damn good job for a new kid on the block.

quote:
And Apple's computers have also evolved, with incredible batteries, light weight, and the attractive aluminum casing.
The battery life and light weight are nice, but I don't care about those as much as stability, performance and price. The aluminum body is a gimmick since I can't change my own damn battery. For those of you who say it should last as long as the machine I have two words for you: manufacturer's defect. I'm used to buying a spare to replace when necessary, usually because the first is bad, but I could just as easily be in a place with no outlets (it happens.)

quote:
In short, Apple's got a lot going for it (enough to convince DailyTech's Senior Editor to go Mac, in fact!)
That statement means next to nothing to me coming from a DT author. It would hold greater weight coming from an Anandtech author because I can review his/her evaluation criteria in great detail.




RE: Sigh...
By Yawgm0th on 9/22/2009 12:16:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
That statement means next to nothing to me coming from a DT author. It would hold greater weight coming from an Anandtech author because I can review his/her evaluation criteria in great detail.
And, you know, respect his knowledge of computer science and IT. There are maybe two or three DT authors I can say that much for, and we don't see much from them these days.


RE: Sigh...
By JasonMick (blog) on 9/22/2009 3:16:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Correction: Honesty is necessary, but large price drop and an even larger increase in QA could get Apple a lot farther. An OS that runs on any hardware out of the box would be nice, too. And get rid of those damn Nazi tactics.


I agree with you 100% here. Apple offers products with great form factors and some nice characteristics, but their QA notoriously stinks (albeit this is true of some of the industry's other players as well). My point is that all of that wouldn't be quite as offensive if Apple wasn't always rubbing its superiority complex in everyone's faces via advertising.

quote:
This is only true for the iPod and iPhone, markets that are the only things keeping Apple in the public view. Apple is NOT competitive in the PC space, despite it's loyal following. In fact, I see an increasing number Mac purchases that run Windows. God forbid a PC manufacturer makes an all-aluminum system. Oh wait, they can't: Apple will likely sue!


Perhaps you were confused. I wasn't talking about the OS. I think for most uses OS X stinks, except word-processing or internet browsing (in which case its optimizations deliver slightly better battery life). That's why any (sane) MacBook owner installs a multiboot of Windows Vista/Windows 7.

quote:
That's a matter of opinion. Corporations hate it because it doesn't integrate well, even to this day. A smartphone's largest user base is corporate users. The iPhone simply made it attractive for non-corporate users to get a device that was more than a phone or texting device. They still don't like it much. I would argue that the Blackberry is still dominant, and the Pre is doing a damn good job for a new kid on the block.


This is true, I meant it in the sense of base user functionality. I still think the iPhone in the end will conquer business (if it can get its security mess together) too, due to its more open API. Blackberry hands you a plethora of honed business tools on a platter, but it's hard to modify them. On the iPhone, expect to see a lot more business/IT management tools popping up, assuming Apple offers sufficient API, hardware to support them.

But I agree with your point.

quote:
The battery life and light weight are nice, but I don't care about those as much as stability, performance and price. The aluminum body is a gimmick since I can't change my own damn battery. For those of you who say it should last as long as the machine I have two words for you: manufacturer's defect. I'm used to buying a spare to replace when necessary, usually because the first is bad, but I could just as easily be in a place with no outlets (it happens.)


Stability isn't horrible in OS X. And you can use run Win 7 on it for better stability. Battery life drops somewhat, but any Windows notebook in that range has integrated graphics, so the Mac still wins. The price is overly high, but a lot of that's due to the battery and weight -- no argument that its a luxury item, though.

I agree its idiotic that they can't cut a battery slot out of the unibody. It'd be nice to be able to swap out batteries on the road. As is, even a superpowered SLI laptop or something beastly like that could match a MacBook's battery life if you had a very large backpack filled with batteries. However, there's no beating the Mac in terms of portability (weight). And the Mac also can at least tie in terms of battery life per price (batteries are expensive) even when you bring multiple batteries into the picture.

I agree though that Apple is shooting itself in the foot with that one.

quote:
That statement means next to nothing to me coming from a DT author. It would hold greater weight coming from an Anandtech author because I can review his/her evaluation criteria in great detail.


Well, we're a news site (mostly) and Anandtech is (mostly) a benchmarks site. It'd be nice to go into as much depth as AT on every piece, but then we'd have 1-2 news articles (if that) a day like Anandtech, and we could never compete with other tech news sites.

Thanks for the feedback...
You raise some good points!


RE: Sigh...
By Yawgm0th on 9/22/2009 6:10:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is true, I meant it in the sense of base user functionality. I still think the iPhone in the end will conquer business (if it can get its security mess together) too, due to its more open API. Blackberry hands you a plethora of honed business tools on a platter, but it's hard to modify them. On the iPhone, expect to see a lot more business/IT management tools popping up, assuming Apple offers sufficient API, hardware to support them.
Touchscreen keyboards are hard to use and unproductive for most business people. The iPhone is also substantially more expensive most other smartphones. I find it highly unlikely that it will every truly supplant BlackBerry in businesses.

Either way, your claim was ridiculous at best. There are still many of us that like a full keyboard, and the iPhone doesn't have that functionality. As such, it is not and can never be the best smartphone by consensus.

quote:
But I agree with your point.
Honestly, why say it if you didn't really mean it? You are contradicting yourself here. OP is basically saying your statement was a misguided opinion presented as fact.

quote:
Stability isn't horrible in OS X.
Having spent two years of my life at a helpdesk not too long ago supporting Windows and Mac compatible products and having to support both operating systems (nevermind the better part of the last decade support PC hardware and Windows OSs), I strongly disagree with this. Windows computers could be slow or even crash, but it was almost always a result of old hardware or bad hardware. Mac computers would inexplicably lock up. I instructed far more Mac users to Force Quit than I did Windows users with Task Manager. Moreover, Task Manager almost always worked. The Macs would frequently lock up entirely, requiring a hard reboot.

That might be anecdotal, but a know a dozen other people who worked at that helpdesk who have the same anecdote. And I bet just about anyone who has supported both operating systems has had the same experience. OS X is not nearly as stable or solid as people make it out to be.


RE: Sigh...
By aharris on 9/25/2009 3:15:54 PM , Rating: 2
Your observations are indeed anecdotal. I spent a few years supporting cross-platform SMBs, and I noticed better stability out of Macs than PCs.

The exception to the rule was our Mac clients who refused to upgrade from anything older than OS X 10.3, but that's similar to having a PC client that refuses to upgrade from ME or install SP1 on XP. Both would be running on ancient hardware with completely dated systems which is always a recipe for disaster.

Now when it's time to upgrade, Macs definitely have the advantage. For all PC users (including myself), upgrading from one OS to another can be a hassle. Data has to be transferred manually or with the use of an app, programs have to be reinstalled if you're smart about clean installs, and more settings have to be reconfigured. On a Mac, the Migration Assistant & target-disk mode handles it all. I was a PC person before I started working with Macs, and the Migration Assistant absolutely blew me away.

Nowadays I use both platforms frequently, and anybody who "just really hates Mac [or PC]" for personal use is simply stuck in an antiquated frame of mind. They're both excellent platforms that get the job done in slightly different ways.


RE: Sigh...
By MatthiasF on 9/22/2009 10:03:55 PM , Rating: 2
You realize the more you try to rationalize your support for Apple, it's really just a sign of how insecure you are of your decision to own one, right?

Just say, "I bought it because it seemed cool" and shut the hell up already.

We've all moved on.


RE: Sigh...
By JasonMick (blog) on 9/23/2009 8:47:38 AM , Rating: 2
But I didn't buy one. That's why I think I can remain a (somewhat) brand neutral, albeit opinionated party and see the good and the bad.

The only Apple product I own is an iPod. I have a Sony Vaio laptop and a Blackberry Storm phone on Verizon.

I don't think there's anything wrong with owning a MacBook unless you get an attitude about it, but I would think it would be important to mention if I did own one.

Maybe I should start my blogs with a disclaimer?

Obviously this piece was just my own opinions and rantings...


RE: Sigh...
By superflex on 9/25/2009 4:55:25 PM , Rating: 2
Blackberry Storm? Really?
What a horrible piece of crap. You two deserve each other.


RE: Sigh...
By acase on 9/22/2009 3:27:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In short, Apple's got a lot going for it (enough to convince DailyTech's Senior Editor to go Mac, in fact!)


You missed the most shocking thing about this sentence...DailyTech actually employs someone with a title of "Senior Editor"?!? Which would imply that there are also other editors below him? Oh my...


Meanwhile in the real world....
By Tony Swash on 9/23/2009 6:22:32 AM , Rating: 4
Meanwhile in the real world …..

Apple is the only major manufacturer of computers that has seen its sales increase during the recession

Apple is the only major manufacturer of computers that has seen its profits increase during the recession

Apple continue to top all surveys of customer satisfaction and product rating

Apple now has a market value greater than Google and will overtake the value of Microsoft in the near future

Apple continues to easily dominate the global music player market and is now the largest retailer of music on the planet

Apple has exploded into the phone market with unprecedented growth which shows no signs of slowing

Apple, after being in the market for just over two years, takes over 30% of the profit of the global phone market (the whole market, not just the smart phone market)

Apple dominates the high-value added end of the desktop/laptop market forcing the Windows OEMs into a low value and low profitability coral

Apple take 90% of the profit in the laptop business

Apple runs the most successful and profitable retail business on the planet (its sales per square foot of retail space is higher than any competitor by a large margin) and continues an unrelenting program of new store openings

Walk into any Apple store, anywhere on the planet, on any day and you will find it crowded with excited customers reaching into their wallets

Apple has $30 billion in cash in the bank

All this, according to the inane commentators here, is the result of cheap marketing tricks, poor quality and products that are surpassed in features and value buy its competitors - yeah that sounds soooo plausible. Come on guys - make some comments that actually make sense.




RE: Meanwhile in the real world....
By IntelHydralisk on 9/24/2009 9:49:59 AM , Rating: 2
I'm curious where you got your numbers from. Mac sales increased for a while but have stagnated during the poor economy. The only PC maker to lose market share was Dell and this was due to a large increase from other PC makers such as HP, Acer, and Asus. Netbooks have sold far better than laptops in general during the recession. Price being one of the major factors.

As far as smart phones go, I can't really comment too much on that. The only large company I worked for (GE), had basically all blackberries. Of my friends, a few have iphones, but the vast majority use other phones.

I take all surveys with a grain of salt. When you survey an apple customer, that customer likely bought an apple product with the mindset that apple is cool and great. I wonder how they would rate the company?


By Tony Swash on 9/25/2009 7:18:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm curious where you got your numbers from. Mac sales increased for a while but have stagnated during the poor economy. The only PC maker to lose market share was Dell and this was due to a large increase from other PC makers such as HP, Acer, and Asus. Netbooks have sold far better than laptops in general during the recession. Price being one of the major factors.


I didn't mention desktop market share. Apple, rightly, realises that chasing market share for its own sake is waste of time. They looked at the desktop market and saw that a really big chunk of it was about low end, low value added, generally low standard, cheap commodity PCs. Thats not the game Apple wants to be into. They focussed on, and now dominate, the high end, high value added, high profitability, quality end of the market. This has been a hugely successful stratgey for Apple.

quote:
As far as smart phones go, I can't really comment too much on that. The only large company I worked for (GE), had basically all blackberries. Of my friends, a few have iphones, but the vast majority use other phones.


I am not sure your anecdotal remarks carry any real weight but again it kind of misses the point I was making. Apple have exploded from nothing to a having a very significant share of the smart phone market - that I think is fairly indisputable and a very big achievement. Apple is also taking a very significant share of the total phone market profits, with a similar strategy to their desktop strategy.

quote:
I take all surveys with a grain of salt. When you survey an apple customer, that customer likely bought an apple product with the mindset that apple is cool and great. I wonder how they would rate the company?


This sort of response cracks me up. When survey after survey of technology consumers of all brands shows that Apple tops the charts you shrug it off as not having any validity. Seemingly in your world people saying they are happy with a company's products doesn't mean they actually are, rather they have somehow been brainwashed or bamboozled into liking something that they actually don't. Do you really think that that is plausible?

To return to the main thrust of my comment. Many Commentators here who seem to think that the numerous indicators of the success of Apple product somehow indicates that these Apple products are over priced, below par in terms of quality and functionality, and are easily bested by their competitors offerings. Such comments, given Apples performance across a range of markets, seem - how to put this politely - a bit silly.


RE: Meanwhile in the real world....
By BailoutBenny on 9/26/2009 3:57:54 PM , Rating: 2
And now for the REAL numbers.

Latest financial data:

Google market cap: 155B
Apple market cap: 163B
Microsoft market cap: 227B

Microsoft:
Fiscal Year
Fiscal Year Ends: 30-June
Most Recent Quarter (mrq): 30-Jun-09

Profitability
Profit Margin (ttm): 24.93%
Operating Margin (ttm): 35.90%

Management Effectiveness
Return on Assets (ttm): 17.40%
Return on Equity (ttm): 38.42%

Income Statement
Revenue (ttm): 58.44B
Gross Profit (ttm): 46.28B

Balance Sheet
Total Cash (mrq): 29.91B

Apple:
Fiscal Year
Fiscal Year Ends: 27-Sep
Most Recent Quarter (mrq): 27-Jun-09

Profitability
Profit Margin (ttm): 14.97%
Operating Margin (ttm): 19.98%

Management Effectiveness
Return on Assets (ttm): 10.81%
Return on Equity (ttm): 22.74%

Income Statement
Revenue (ttm): 34.56B
Gross Profit (ttm): 11.15B

Balance Sheet
Total Cash (mrq): 24.22B (Cash in the bank obviously not 30B)

Apple has a while to go before overtaking Microsoft, who will not stand idly by.

According to Gartner, Apple only controls 13% of the smartphone market, but I will concede it has had phenomenal growth at 375% year over year.

http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/0...

And just over 1% of the GLOBAL phone market:

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/01/29/apple-cro...

Apple and RIM control 32% of the operating profits for the global market BETWEEN them, not just Apple alone:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124805149501664033...

Apple's laptop sales increased by 13% at the same time its desktop sales decreased by 10% due to laptop price cuts but combined these markets lost revenue for the company. 90% of all laptop profits is pure BS.

The 2 markets that really carry Apple are the media player and phone divisions. These markets also correspond to their customer satisfaction surveys. These markets also are what drove profitability, especially considering the subsidies paid for the iPhone by phone companies, 400 per phone compared to 100 per phone for a Blackberry.

Your anecdote about Apple stores is just that, an anecdote. I can tell you that I see crowds of people walking out of Apple stores without any items on any given day and it would mean just as much.

Anyway, I refuse to buy Apple. They are too extreme in controlling their platforms and despite what it seems, their products are often user unfriendly (difficult to replace batteries, expensive and limited hardware upgrades, poor OS application support, piss poor developer tools, poor tech support).


RE: Meanwhile in the real world....
By Tony Swash on 9/27/2009 6:48:22 AM , Rating: 2
A few random responses to your comments:

quote:
Apple has a while to go before overtaking Microsoft, who will not stand idly by.


True - but read the recent news storied about the forthcoming changes to the way that iPhone income is accounted for in Apples accounts (put simply at the moment iPhone income is spread over many years and in future it will appear in the accounts for the period that Apple actually receives the income). The result will be a very big jump in Apple's reported profitability.

The main point is that all the financial indicators at Apple are moving strongly in the right direction whilst all the indicators at Microsoft are moving strongly in the wrong direction. It fair warms the cockles of my heart.

quote:
And just over 1% of the GLOBAL phone market:

Apple and RIM control 32% of the operating profits for the global market BETWEEN them, not just Apple alone:


Thats still a pretty phenomenal performance for a company with zero activity in the phone market two years ago. also note - RIM is declining sharply and Apple is growing strongly.

quote:
Your anecdote about Apple stores is just that, an anecdote. I can tell you that I see crowds of people walking out of Apple stores without any items on any given day and it would mean just as much.


Not just anecdotes - read the financial press, here is an example:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601204&si...

Here is a killer quote from that article:

quote:
Apple’s Fifth Avenue emporium probably has annual sales of more than $350 million, topping any of the chain’s other outlets, said Jeffrey Roseman, executive vice president of real- estate broker Newmark Knight Frank Retail in New York. The location is 10,000 square feet, putting its sales per square foot at a minimum of $35,000, based on Roseman’s estimate.

That’s the equivalent of selling one Mercedes-Benz C300 sedan per square foot. Apple may be the highest grossing retailer ever on Fifth Avenue, said Faith Hope Consolo, chairman of the retail leasing and sales division at Manhattan-based Prudential Douglas Elliman Real Estate


Apples retail outlets continues to increase sales - right through the recession - while the retail sector declined sharply.

quote:
The 2 markets that really carry Apple are the media player and phone divisions


I am not sure the point you are making here - you could just as easily say that Microsoft is carried by its Windows/Office/Server division. The difference between Apple and Microsoft is that ALL divisions at Apple are profitable or (a few) are break even, while at Microsoft many divisions make huge losses and Microsoft continues to be unable to break out of the old tripod of products holding up the company (a tripod of products that face long term decline).

Prior to Steve Job's return to the ailing Apple in 1994 he was asked what he would do if he ran the company and Steve said:

quote:
If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it’s worth — and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over.


And thats what he has done. Apple is winning the tech wars of tomorrow and Microsoft are defending their victories of yesterday.

Finally lets not forget the main point I was making. Given Apple huge success across a range of intensely competitive markets, given the way consumers are flocking to them waving their cash its just embarrassingly silly to see people making facile comments here that push the notion that Apples products are crap, that people don't really like them, that there lots of other better and cheaper products out there, that people only buy Apple because they have been brainwashed or bamboozled.

This seems to me to be the exact equivalent of the famous scornful laugh that Steve Ballmer gave when asked about the launch of the first iPhone.


By BailoutBenny on 9/29/2009 10:34:24 AM , Rating: 2
My point is that from my perspective Apple's products are not that great. What they do have is an absolutely BRILLIANT marketing department that has sold millions of people on the company's image and has also made the consumer part of that image, thus increasing the amount of people that want their products.

It is absolutely true that there are way better and cheaper alternatives to Apple's products but they either don't have the brand marketing behind them or require some level of technical skill to use.

If I didn't have them already, I would take a Zune HD over the iPod Touch, a Blackberry or Pre over the iPhone, a Tivo over AppleTV, and a Falcon NW custom built PC/laptop over any Apple built PC.


Sad
By Yawgm0th on 9/22/2009 11:22:12 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Let's face it -- the iPhone is the best smartphone in the industry. For a while, before it got MMS, video, or copy and paste, you could make a modest argument that competitors gave it a run for its money. Now it's placed itself as the clear leader.
Let's face it -- this is completely your opinion, and yours alone.

IMO, the BlackBerry Bold and Tour are the best smartphones on the market. They have full QWERTY keyboards, which makes them far, far more productive than the iPhone for texting and email. They have built-in, full featured web browsers that render about 95% of web sites perfectly. They have loads of apps, just like the iPhone, only BlackBerry apps actually assist with productivity -- rather than just making fart noises.

My BlackBerry Bold doesn't overheat easily (90F or more in my car, in my hand, and the GPS gets finnicky -- that's the worst), gets full 3G service, texting, MMS, email, integration with Exchange, Lotus, or pretty much any email/contact/calendar system.

Anecdotally, the CEO at my company recently decided to get an iPhone because his 8300 Curve was giving him fits. He used it for about eight hours and asked his assistant to return it. He said to "slap" him if "he ever tries to move away from BlackBerry again".

The iPhone is the best toy smartphone, but not the best smartphone by any means. If you want to browse web and listen to music and watch videos -- great. The iPhone is a good phone for you. It's a fun, consumer-oriented phone and not that much of a texting downgrade from a numeric keypad.

If you want to do everything the iPhone does plus email, text, and be productive with your phone, a BlackBerry Bold, Tour, or a Palm Pre works well.




RE: Sad
By adiposity on 9/22/2009 1:08:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's a fun, consumer-oriented phone and not that much of a texting downgrade from a numeric keypad.


I agree with most of what you say; however my bro-in-law challenged me to a typing contest with him on his iPhone and me on my touch-pro (full qwerty). We basically tied. He has the newer iPhone which has landscape qwerty, and admitted the old portrait qwerty was very tough.

Although I am not as practiced as he is (I don't type too many e-mails on my phone), he made his point. I think the on screen keyboard is more effective than a numeric keypad, and nearly as good as a button qwerty. It's not for me (my touch pro also has ctrl, shift, and numbers and symbols, not just the qwerty) but he proved it is pretty effective.

-Dan


RE: Sad
By glennpratt on 9/22/2009 4:34:14 PM , Rating: 2
You're exaggerating, just like the quote you are arguing against.

Anecdotally, the CEO of most of the companies I work with would punch someone out if you took their iPhone's away. Who cares, they like it because they are used to it.

The iPhone integrates with Exchange (Email/ Contacts/ Calendar/ Remote Wipe/ Passcode Policy) out of the box, without the headache of Blackberry Enterprise Server. That feature alone puts it above Blackberry at thousands of companies.

The iPhone was the first phone with a usable web browser, how is that a toy?

You don't like the touchscreen, oh well, many people do. I can type faster on the iPhone then I ever could on my Treo. Here's a tip, you need more than a day with it to be any good


RE: Sad
By Yawgm0th on 9/22/2009 5:56:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You're exaggerating, just like the quote you are arguing against.
Hyperbole is my strong point. ;) I fight fire with fire sometimes. And when Jason says something like this, I get all fired up...

http://www.xkcd.com/386/

quote:
The iPhone was the first phone with a usable web browser, how is that a toy?
I disagree. Opera Mobile worked on the earlier versions of the HTC Kaiser line long before the iPhone was out. It worked on other Kaiser predecessors, too. The Kaisers unfortunately lack the processing power and RAM to make web browsing enjoyable -- even my current AT&T Tilt. They also lack multitouch, which is the biggest issue. However, the web browser was quite usable. Still, "usable" is subjective, as no phone browser can render all web pages. The iPhone/iPod Touch arguably have the best, but in my experience the BlackBerry Bold and Tour are nearly as good, if not as good. Opera Mobile and Skyfire are pretty decent on WinMo, and the G1 is pretty darn usable as well. But by my definition of usable, BlackBerry or WinMo with Opera were first.

quote:
The iPhone integrates with Exchange (Email/ Contacts/ Calendar/ Remote Wipe/ Passcode Policy) out of the box, without the headache of Blackberry Enterprise Server. That feature alone puts it above Blackberry at thousands of companies.
BES is sooo easy to use. I find it a joke that companies ask for experience with it on job listings. If you are to be allowed to even touch a Windows server at a business, you can setup BES. IPhone requires different settings in Exchange and the firewall to be messed with. It's arguably more work, but it's all fairly trivial if you know what you're doing. WinMo is actually the best, though, as virtually any Exchange setup works without modification. There are a few problems that can crop up, but it's still much easier than BlackBerry, Palm, or iPhone.

quote:
I can type faster on the iPhone then I ever could on my Treo. Here's a tip, you need more than a day with it to be any good
I've spent more than a day with the iPhone. I would challenge any iPhone user to a text or email match. I almost have trouble believing what you said, but to each their own (hint: this points to my real contention to Jason's statement).

quote:
You don't like the touchscreen, oh well, many people do.
I like the touchscreen for certain thing. I would buy an iPod Touch for web browsing just because the stupid Tilt is so slow -- if I didn't have my Bold (Tilt is mine, Bold is for work, just to clarify this).

But really, you've hit the nail on the head here. I could go back and forth with this all day, claiming my beloved BlackBerry is superior. In some ways, it is. In others, not so much. My contention is that Jason would make such a claim. I don't even think he's trying to bait a phone or OS vendor flame war -- I think he honestly believes that his subjective view is now de facto. The iPhone still has flaws, and even if it didn't there will always be dissenting views since the "best" smartphone is, by definition, a subjective judgment.


RE: Sad
By glennpratt on 9/24/2009 10:06:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I disagree. Opera Mobile worked on the earlier versions of the HTC Kaiser line long before the iPhone was out

I don't know when the Kaiser was released elsewhere, but it was after the iPhone in the US. A client of mine bought some, and then made a big stink and forced AT&T to take them back. Opera 8.6 was it back then, and on the phones I had available, it ran like a dog and crashed all the time. Opera 9 got canned and 9.5 still hasn't come out of beta.

quote:
BES is sooo easy to use.

BS! BES is easy to install, hard to deal with when anything goes wrong. And BES isn't free, it pretty much doubles the software licensing costs for email on Exchange unless you have less then 30 users.

quote:
iPhone requires different settings in Exchange and the firewall to be messed with.


BS. The iPhone uses Exchange ActiveSync, just like WinMo. It uses HTTPS, if you didn't have that port open, you weren't doing EAS right to begin with. If you had Exchange ActiveSync working with any rational security settings before, it will work with iPhone. Also, the iPhone is much more robust, resulting in zero support calls versus the WinMo phones which result in tons of support calls, requiring frequent hard resets when ActiveSync starts throwing errors.

Anyway, I agree the iPhone wasn't revolutionary and many people are just blinded by hype, but it still was a big improvement as a total smartphone that works. In short, it's not a toy, and I appreciate the competition, especially for WinMo, which Microsoft has been seriously lazy with.


positives won't make it
By djc208 on 9/22/2009 11:02:52 AM , Rating: 4
I think Apple has to fight dirty in the PC space because the benefits they can tout aren't enough for most of the market to want to buy one.

The netbook craze has proven that price rules in most cases, so trying to justify the (expensive) benefits of a Mac is a non-argument for most people. Apple does do some great things on their products, but not usually enough to justify double and sometimes triple the price of a similar or more powerful PC to a vast majority of the buying public. Hence the smear campain, they're looking for people who are fed up with Windows, and stoking the flames for the Apple fan-boys (and girls).

The problem, (and this is why I admittedly HATE Apple products) is that they make it stupid easy to get into a Mac, and much more difficult to get out. iTunes will prompt to import, convert, organize, and catalog your music and data and install and put you in the middle of their little world of software (Safari/Quicktime). But if you want to deviate from what that little world allows, things get tricky and cumbersome, and you usually need as much expertise as you would have if you were trying to do it on a PC, difference is there's fewer people out there to help since the whole platform is more obscure.




"Choose a Vista" is the best Mac ad.
By TEAMSWITCHER on 9/22/2009 3:29:48 PM , Rating: 2
Consumers have always been a complacent bunch when it comes to matters of quality and innovation in computers. The Apple ads have shaken them out of their complacently, and with the help of the iPod halo effect, has gotten many users (like myself) to switch to using an Apple computer.

The MacBook Pro I'm using now is far, far better than any Windows PC I have ever owned. I have seen Windows 7 and it looks too much like Vista to sway me back. Besides, I can always run Windows 7 I needed to, without having to buy a PC. I guess that would make me a partial switcher.

I like the "I'm a Mac" ads, they're the reason that I first walked into the Apple store in the first place. The very best one is "Choose a Vista", that is the one with the big Wheel with Basic, Starter, Home Premium, Business, and Ultimate versions. At the end of the commercial when the wheel comes up "Loose a turn", Mac says, "Didn't you make this?"

Very true, and very funny!




By Oregonian2 on 9/23/2009 2:07:12 PM , Rating: 2
Still interesting to see the apple/oranges going on.

Mac computers vs Windows OS.

Manufacturer of Windows does not make any computers at all that compete with a Mac computer.

The Mac ads should be Mac vs HP or something along that line.

Particularly when one can buy a Mac and run Windows on it.

Can't imagine what non-computer folk make of the confusing presentations of what's what and what competes with what.

:-)


Strange ...
By Orionds on 9/23/2009 7:43:43 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
In the last 10 years of my friends and I using Linux, OS X, and Windows operating systems, Linux and OS X operating systems (and their associated software) froze or crashed arguably more frequently than Windows and its associated software!


I've been using Ubuntu 9.04 for almost 2 months and it's faster, more stable, multi-tasks and recovers from program crashes much better than XP. Only once did Ubuntu freeze from a program crash in the 2 months but I've had at least 5 freezes in the same period in XP though I use it less than 10% of the time ever since I started with Ubuntu.




RE: Strange ...
By Suntan on 9/24/2009 10:43:14 AM , Rating: 2
What's really strange is that you've had 5 crashes in XP in the span of 2 months.

Sorry, the "oh, it keeps crashing on me" line got old about 5 years ago. All the rest of us that happily go about our computing activities crash free (on most all OSs) just look at people like you as someone who can't figure out how to work their computer.

-Suntan


Agreed
By piroroadkill on 9/22/2009 9:40:47 AM , Rating: 2
Making your competitor out to be shit does not put your product in a good light, especially if these tactics are what you deem are needed to market your product (the product itself does not stand on its own).

However, as you say, Apple's products do often stand on their own merit, and it's far more valuable and less patronising to have them market their products on their strengths instead of acting like utter tools




Senior editor goes Mac
By chmilz on 9/22/2009 4:27:24 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
(enough to convince DailyTech's Senior Editor to go Mac, in fact!).
So what that proves is that Macs don't have spell check, grammar check, and can only copy and paste equally poorly written materials found elsewhere on the interwebs. And it can dock an iPod.

Proof is in the pudding: Macs are clearly the reason for the rapid decline in quality journalism on DT.

And Jason Mick is a toolbox full of Apples.




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