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The MacBook Pro 17", which retails for $2,800 was a top pick for Consumer Reports.  (Source: Apple)

The MacBook Air was among the Apple laptops that topped their category in reported quality, though featuring significantly higher prices than their Windows competitors.  (Source: Apple)
Consumer reports goes on the record to voice its opinions on the Mac versus PC debate

Consumer Reports has beaten the hornets’ nest, releasing its own opinions on the Mac vs. PC debate in its latest consumer computer survey.  In the survey, the research firm overwhelming gave Macs better scores than PCs.  However, it also noted that the Macs cost three to four times the price of a PC.  The results, interestingly, play into both companies' current advertising campaigns.

The publication purchased most of its computers at Best Buy.  Its top picks were all Apples -- with MacBooks holding the top spot in the lightweight, 14-inch, 16-inch, and 17-inch categories.  In the lightweight category, the MacBook Air took top honors, scoring 60/100, with HP's dv3-1075us in second with 55/100.  The HP system, though, was priced at $850 USD, while the MacBook Air retailed at $2,300 USD.

The 17"
MacBook Pro also sat atop its category with a mark of 80/100.  Next up was the Dell Studio S17-162B, which received 64/100.  The Dell laptop cost $750, while the MacBook Pro retailed for $2,800.  In the 14- to 15-inch category, the MacBook Pro again took top honors with 75/100.  The runner ups were the Toshiba Satellite M305-S4910 and the Asus X83Vm-x2, which received 64/100.  The 14" MacBook Pro cost $2,000 USD, while the Windows PCs in the category ranged from $450 to $850 USD.

Overall, Consumer Reports say that Macs are superior to PCs in
quality, customer support, and innovation, but the publication complains that they are overpriced.

The study certainly was a bit questionable in that it failed to compare pricier, high performance Windows systems like Gateway's gaming laptops (available at some Best Buy locations), Toshiba's X305, Alienware, or Voodoo laptops.  In its defense, though, most of the systems are not available at large brick-and-mortar retailers. 

However, the quality advantage held by Macs based on factors like battery life and form-factor may not be enough for Apple to outcompete Windows-box OEMs.  Mac sales, during the recession economy have fallen, while PC sales have held steady thanks to low-priced offerings like netbooks which continue to post growth.

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Seriously... ?
By DEredita on 5/6/2009 12:26:40 PM , Rating: 5
So Consumer Reports found that a $2800 laptop was far better than a $750 laptop. Who would have thought.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Radnor on 5/6/2009 12:46:25 PM , Rating: 5
A 6, please. The people demand justice. Or Blood.

The obvious in this case must be overstated.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Motoman on 5/6/2009 12:48:17 PM , Rating: 5
No shit. OMFG, what an embarrasment for Consumer Reports. They just lost an enormous amount of credibilty, which is a shame, because they do a lot of good...

RE: Seriously... ?
By Torched on 5/6/2009 12:50:45 PM , Rating: 5
In other news, water is wet, the sun rises in the morning, and diamonds are forever. Details at @ 11.

RE: Seriously... ?
By A5un on 5/6/2009 1:02:33 PM , Rating: 5
Diamonds aren't actually forever. They can be turned into graphite under high heat with oxygen. And there's also radioactive decay, though the half life is way long.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Mortando on 5/6/2009 1:34:57 PM , Rating: 5
Coincidentally, under high heat with oxygen they also cease to be a girl's best friend.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Yawgm0th on 5/6/2009 5:56:33 PM , Rating: 2
Another +6.

RE: Seriously... ?
By tastyratz on 5/7/2009 8:41:52 AM , Rating: 2
Nothin gets a girls engine going like a big piece of graphite on their finger. That diamond is soooooooooo hot

RE: Seriously... ?
By callmeroy on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: Seriously... ?
By mindless1 on 5/6/2009 3:13:47 PM , Rating: 5
... but then, won't it be burned out forever?

RE: Seriously... ?
By christojojo on 5/6/2009 3:31:12 PM , Rating: 2
Not if you use the Tardis.

RE: Seriously... ?
By STILTO on 5/6/2009 4:02:02 PM , Rating: 5

RE: Seriously... ?
By icrf on 5/6/2009 9:18:50 PM , Rating: 2
Asimov reference FTW!

RE: Seriously... ?
By callmeroy on 5/7/2009 3:26:29 PM , Rating: 2
LOL...good one....

RE: Seriously... ?
By afkrotch on 5/7/09, Rating: 0
RE: Seriously... ?
By frobizzle on 5/7/2009 9:21:49 AM , Rating: 1
In other news, water is wet, the sun rises in the morning, and diamonds are forever. Details at @ 11.

And tonight's weather forecast...there will be a gradual darkening followed by light in the morning.

RE: Seriously... ?
By DrRap on 5/6/2009 1:31:20 PM , Rating: 1
this is what happens when you try to go against the mob.
for people their own opinion matters they don't care or try to think for just a moment whats right or wrong. now they have proven that CR is bullshit no matter how hard you shout for the CR.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Samus on 5/6/2009 4:32:16 PM , Rating: 5
It's not about going against the mob. Consumer Reports consistantly rates with the same model: price. I'll use automobile quality ratings as an example:

[logs into CR account]

Consumer Reports 'top picks' for 4 (four) year old vehicles:

Toyota Corolla
Honda Civic
Hyundai Elantra
Ford Focus
Chevy Cobalt

Toyota Camry
Toyota Prius (somehow considered mid-size)
Ford Fusion
Honda Accord
Chevy Malibu
Hyundai Sonata

I'll spare the full-size and SUV details, I'm sure you see where this is going. Top-picks are based on VALUE, which I believe to be a combination of reliability, features and price. However, in almost every category, they consistantly pick the most expensive to least expensive.

Well, no shit, who would have thought the more expensive cars are going to be more reliable and have better features.

Apple computers cost more to make, using higher quality manufacturing processes, materials, and quality control. It's not a shock to recommend them for reliability, but to classify them as a 'top pick' is just adding to the reasons teenagers are successful in talking their parents into buying them an unneccessarily expensive notebook for college.

RE: Seriously... ?
By DrRap on 5/7/2009 2:02:19 AM , Rating: 3
as this has been already stated in another post buying cars in deeply subjective thing. in USA people have more knowledge about cars then PC. being a DT reader and from a long time PC user people feel offended when they read articles like these b/c they have developed a mind set about mac pc thing. for them this is a very subjective thing like cars but we can not say for this for the masses.
they are putting a question mark on the study. you know here you can not conduct a study and publish the results just like that without strong backup with data and evidences. so the whole point is study is having no error in,that is just reflecting the the choices of the people - people liked the mac - conclusion by the study. why we are extrapolating our own choices which are totally subject and we are proving that study is wrong. even though we don't know the parameters of the study or what criterion they used.
so the whole point is study is fine at its place we are fine with our feelings or emotions - let people buy what they want and enjoy them.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Reclaimer77 on 5/7/2009 3:23:36 AM , Rating: 4
Apple computers cost more to make, using higher quality manufacturing processes, materials, and quality control. It's not a shock to recommend them for reliability,

What a bunch of crap. You are paying for a NAME, nothing more.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Samus on 5/7/2009 4:26:06 AM , Rating: 2
You just come off as somebody grossly unfamiliar with Apple hardware.

Before I explain why you come off that way, let me just say I fucking hate Apple on so many levels and i'll leave that for another day. I don't own a single piece of Apple 'crap' Apple IIe through iPhone G3.

Apple hardware is cool as hell because its proprietary. I'm an electronics junkie and Apple hardware is fun for us because it evolves fast, and differently, from PC hardware which is standardized and frankly boring. It's like digging into Sun hardware, or IBM severs. It's cool as hell because you always find a lot of shit that seems ridiculous, but can't stop yourself from finding a lot of stuff that is fucking awesome. Compaq used to be different and proprietary too, but when HP 'killed' them, they became standardized along with HP's PC division. Remember when Compaq cases used to have extra torx's screwed into a panel as 'spares' and they tried to push a standard format for drive rails (which never caught on because standards like that never pass in the PC industry.) Well, things don't have to 'pass' in the Apple industry because they're the only ones that do it, and that make's their hardware evolve differently. And that always makes them interesting.

iMac, G4 Cube, water cooled G5, Macbook Air, all remarkable pieces of hardware technology at their time, remarkable in a way that will never be known to PC people, and remarkable because you've probably never seen it for what it was. A work of art. Beautiful not because of its looks, but because it was engineered to look that way.

RE: Seriously... ?
By callmeroy on 5/7/2009 3:14:42 PM , Rating: 3
So, in summary of your reply, your argument as to why Apple has higher quality parts is because the parts are proprietary and they are "effing" awesome?

Oh and because they were engineered to look a certain way...

Ok guess you told us PC users off huh?


RE: Seriously... ?
By frobizzle on 5/7/2009 9:51:44 AM , Rating: 2
Uh...looks like it's time for Pirks to start spreading his BS about how wonderful Apples are!

RE: Seriously... ?
By Souka on 5/6/2009 12:52:40 PM , Rating: 5
IF this was a typical CSR survey, the polling was done of it's readers... which itself will likely affect overall scores.

But yikes...$2800 vs $750?

RE: Seriously... ?
By Old Man Dotes on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: Seriously... ?
By callmeroy on 5/6/2009 3:02:07 PM , Rating: 5
God as my witness -- I honestly have very little problems using my Windows based machines at home (or at work) and I'm talking over a period that is longer than MacBooks even existed.

I really think how a machine handles has a LOT to do with the knowledge of the user and how the machine used.

I also do a ton of gaming (my main use of a computer at home these days) --- which makes the Apple argument null and void right there.....Apple machines can't play my full game library --- and yes EVEN WITH the Windows emulation they feature.

That all said -- its too silly that we argue over who likes what machine...its a friggin made man object -- its a tool...use what you like and shut up about it already.

Macs are good for some needs, PCs still serve other niches better....what's the big deal? Who cares what you favor?

RE: Seriously... ?
By Fallen Kell on 5/6/2009 3:56:22 PM , Rating: 2
I also do a ton of gaming (my main use of a computer at home these days) --- which makes the Apple argument null and void right there.....Apple machines can't play my full game library --- and yes EVEN WITH the Windows emulation they feature.

Why in the world are you trying to game under emulation mode and not running bootcamp? It will work fine that way.

RE: Seriously... ?
By theapparition on 5/6/2009 5:07:03 PM , Rating: 5
Maybe because even under bootcamp, you're still stuck with inferior hardware specs (eg try and get the latest graphics card working on the apple).

RE: Seriously... ?
By Fallen Kell on 5/7/2009 6:18:02 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe because even under bootcamp, you're still stuck with inferior hardware specs (eg try and get the latest graphics card working on the apple).

You mean like an Nvidia 512MB 9600M? Remember we are talking laptops.... I have a hard time believing that you need more power than that. And if you do, well, you shouldn't be looking at a laptop then, because you will not even be able to watch a 2 hour movie on that laptop due to your battery dying.

RE: Seriously... ?
By theapparition on 5/8/2009 9:52:13 AM , Rating: 1
Remember we are talking laptops....

Says who? You? There is absolutely nothing in the article about being laptop focused, perhaps you read too much into that. However, my comments still stand for laptops as well.

I have a hard time believing that you need more power than that.

You don't need to believe anything, but I run an engineering consulting company where every last bit of cpu and graphics power is necessary. Anything less is a waste of resources.

And if you do, well, you shouldn't be looking at a laptop then, because you will not even be able to watch a 2 hour movie on that laptop due to your battery dying.

Exagerate much? First off, we have much higher power spec'd laptops than MacBook Pro's that last quite fine on battery power alone. I myself have watched movies or worked while on a cross country travel. 3D hardware and the power consumption it requires isn't always exercised, especially on battery power.
The only reason that we have laptops at all is for travel and sales. My salespeople are the only ones concerned with battery power, and none have ever complained. For engineering travel, the laptops are plugged in at the destination, so battery power becomes moot.

We own a macbook pro that is used for customer compatibility. While it certainly is a nice piece of hardware, that's about all I'm going to say. Apple and all thier products become worthless for productivity when they are:
1. Underpowered (compared to similarly priced machines)
2. No compatible applications

If battery life is you main concern, or you care about a slight improvement in weight or thickness, than Macbooks are a good choice if you're willing to pay the price premium they command. I can't find any justification for Apple desktops, however, someone may have a reason.

Still, the perception that buying an Apple laptop will allow you to "have your cake and eat it too" is completely erroneous. If you buy Apple you're going to get a great piece of hardware that limited by lower system power, a small applications library and limited expandibility. If you go PC you can get a much more powerful machine limited to heavier specs and lower battery life. And for most, the option is to go similar power with much lower cost.

To each thier own. I don't have anything personal against Macs, other than thier normal disinformation campain, but can't stand when someone tells me I don't need anything more that what thier giving me.

RE: Seriously... ?
By tlampen on 5/6/2009 4:30:23 PM , Rating: 5
That all said -- its too silly that we argue over who likes what machine...its a friggin made man object -- its a tool...use what you like and shut up about it already.
Macs are good for some needs, PCs still serve other niches better....what's the big deal? Who cares what you favor?


RE: Seriously... ?
By freeagle on 5/6/2009 8:07:42 PM , Rating: 3
Who cares what you favor?

Apple, Microsoft, Dell, HP, Toshiba, Asus, MSI, ....

RE: Seriously... ?
By callmeroy on 5/7/2009 3:24:12 PM , Rating: 2
Businesses that have taking your money in mind care? Alert the media....

Now answer the question again --- removing financial gain from the equation, if someone isn't making money off of your decision --- who cares what you use.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Granseth on 5/6/2009 3:12:51 PM , Rating: 4
And you can one computer for yourself and one for you sister, and still have quite a bit of money to spare.

Guess which family would be happiest :)

I'm not a M$ fan or Linux or something else but stop giving crap, and accept Apple is a luxury product and leave the rest of us to be happy with what we got. Till Apple start competing in the same market all these comparisons are useless.

And btw, wouldn't you need to by Office or iWorks for your mac as well?

RE: Seriously... ?
By Fallen Kell on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: Seriously... ?
By Homerboy on 5/6/2009 4:09:24 PM , Rating: 5
So why couldn't you use OpenOffice on the PC then?

RE: Seriously... ?
By Souka on 5/6/2009 5:08:15 PM , Rating: 3
Because the Mac enthuasist above wanted to add the cost of the full MS2007 office suite to the PC cost to make his arguement look better.

Free AV exist for Mac and PC.. OpenOffice exist for Mac and PC..

RE: Seriously... ?
By tastyratz on 5/7/2009 9:07:01 AM , Rating: 3
Free office
Free utilities
Free antivirus

These things exist for both systems, and the products are nothing to snuff at. Open office is a great product, and I personally choose an antivirus that is free over one I pay for because its a superior product.

Also, any mac owner who thinks they don't need antivirus and spyware protection is a gambling ostrich with their head in the sand.

But if they didn't have inflated numbers for expensive retail software (who buys retail?) how else could they try to justify their product?

[mac argument]
OMG Macs are cheap!
sure its 2800 for an out of the box mac, but consider the pc:

800 for the pc
+150 for the extended warranty
+150 for another battery
+400 for windows
+700 for office
+60 for antivirus
+500 for photoshop
+50 for a wireless mouse
+40 for a laptop bag
+50 for wireless router
+50 for shipping
+300 in training
So really that pc costs you $3100! OH NOES! Who is the idiot now pc buyers!
[/mac argument]

:roll eyes:

RE: Seriously... ?
By teldar on 5/6/2009 3:47:04 PM , Rating: 4
Well. If you're smart, you'll use something like AVGfree for virus protection. And you'll use OpenOffice suite if you want something cheaper for the office. The documents you write in it are supported fine by MS Office. Office's docs don't always go the other way, however.
AND if you want to talk about OS upgrades, they aren't free for Macs either. I wouldn't tout that one too much.
So... You're looking at $2800 + $60/yr for antivirus +$200 for OS upgrades... Don't know what Apple does about productivity software, but I doubt it's all included on all Macs.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Fallen Kell on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: Seriously... ?
By teldar on 5/6/2009 9:39:32 PM , Rating: 5
So you're saying that Mac OS upgrades are free?
And would you like to compare apples to apples?
The op said that MS Office is expensive. I said that Open Office is free.

Please reply to what was posted, don't create your own scenario based on my specific responses to the op.

My points were
Anti-virus software (free and good) is easily available.
Office software is easily available.
OS updates are free for neither. However, if you want to get into specifics, it seems to me that Apple charges for minor upgrades while MS gives SP's for free.

So, in summation, read the OP and LOOK AT THE RESPONSES. Or just don't post anything if you have nothing to add.

RE: Seriously... ?
By teldar on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: Seriously... ?
By afkrotch on 5/7/2009 2:32:23 AM , Rating: 3
Odd that you think ClamAVX is the only AV software for Mac, considering Apple sells Norton on their own website for Mac.

Windows has different versions, so pick the one you need. It can be lower cost or higher cost than an OSX upgrade.

RE: Seriously... ?
By RamarC on 5/6/2009 5:14:42 PM , Rating: 2
i got ms office home for about $120 two years ago and the licensing let me put it on 3 PCs. windows one care is $25 per year and it can be put on 3 PCs also.

and my low-end toshiba laptop that i bought in jan 2007 with vista for $850 is still working fine. in fact, i just put win 7 rc1 on it and it works BETTER! its 1.6ghz core2duo is plenty fast for all of my apps/usage and i still have enough battery life to watch iron man on a flight. i might retire it at the end of this year, or i might just upgrade it and keep using it for another 12 months.

no mac envy here.

RE: Seriously... ?
By afkrotch on 5/7/2009 2:40:51 AM , Rating: 2
I have a 12.1" Everex Stepnote. $600 for me. 1.6 ghz dual Core Pentium M, 2 batteries, and Vista Home. Because of my work, I have a free copy of Symantec Corporate and $20 for a full version of Office 2k7 Standard. Home Use Program for the AV and Office. There's also the Employee Purchase Program for me to get other MS software.

Hell, I can get in on Apple's Employee Purchase Program too, but why bother. I do more gaming on my PC than anything else and a Mac just doesn't fit my needs.

RE: Seriously... ?
By chick0n on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: Seriously... ?
By christojojo on 5/6/2009 4:46:45 PM , Rating: 4
Dang, for ever 100 valid points made in the pro-Windows side there is one of these. Sigh, sorry Apple Fanboys. We let our moron out with a leash.

Down chick0n! Down! Next time, I will have to take him to the pound for erhm um "retraining".

RE: Seriously... ?
By TomZ on 5/6/2009 4:56:38 PM , Rating: 3
Actually, I think the response was pretty appropriate, considering what he/she was responding to. Kudos to the OP!

RE: Seriously... ?
By christojojo on 5/6/2009 5:10:11 PM , Rating: 2
The part that hurts the argument is the swearing and name calling: Un-needed. The rest was accurate. Points are won by intelligence not by name calling.

I just found it lost its overall appeal; others will probably vote it down because of them and he loses the argument if he isn't heard.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Pirks on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: Seriously... ?
By christojojo on 5/6/2009 9:42:06 PM , Rating: 2
True though I always interpreted it as "Why apple?". It seems for a big chunk of us there is nothing Apple has that we want.

RE: Seriously... ?
By murphyslabrat on 5/6/2009 11:54:32 PM , Rating: 4
That is exactly DT, but do you know why? Because DT is a technology oriented site, who's typical demographic are PC power-users. These are people who, mostly, understand performance metrics, and want to get the best-running thing for the money....which 9 times out of 10 will be a PC.

You still get knowledgable people who use macs, and you get people who would like a mac. Unfortunately, you still get your Pirks, who intentionally provokes ire at Mac-users in general.

It's not that there is an irrational hate for macs, it's just that macs cater to a niche that DT doesn't.

RE: Seriously... ?
By just4U on 5/7/2009 12:51:17 PM , Rating: 3
It's not only that. There are quite a few of us on this web site that build computers on a regular basis. Seeing what they charge for their computers is outrageous especially when you consider what many of us could throw together at any given time for a fraction of the cost.

I don't dislike mac's but having some shmuck telling me how good they are when I know damn well they don't measure up is insulting. You can't let those comments go unchecked or people will start to believe them. That's why they almost always get a response.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Pirks on 5/7/2009 2:36:21 PM , Rating: 1
Pirks, who intentionally provokes ire at Mac-users in general
But someone has to balance chickotroll here, who also provokes ire at Windows users in general.

I'm working here as a counterweight for chicko/potatotrolls and similar idiots. Dirty job, but someone has to do this.

RE: Seriously... ?
By chick0n on 5/7/09, Rating: -1
RE: Seriously... ?
By Pirks on 5/7/2009 2:23:04 PM , Rating: 1
Now you got -1 too chickojerk :PPP

RE: Seriously... ?
By AahzNotOz on 5/6/2009 3:56:31 PM , Rating: 2
Mind you, the price of the Windows machine does not include the $60/year required to keep up with the pre-installed anti-virus package, nor the up to $800 to continue using the pre-installed "trial version" of Microsoft Office 2007 after the 60-day trial period, nor the cost of upgrading it to Windows 7 so that Microsoft support will continue (expected to run between $200 and $400), nor the cost of a spare battery so that you can run the Windows laptop for the same length of time as the Apple laptop (usually about $160)...

$60 a year for the antivirus? Shooting high I think. Last I looked, admitedly more than a few years ago, it was more in the $20 to $25 range. Of course I pay nothing here because preinstalled virus scanners are usually McAfee or Symantec, and they are both resource hogs, so I use AVG instead. AVG happens to cost $0 per year. So subtract $60 from your price.

$800 for office!? Can I borrow some of the cr@ck you are smoking because it must be pretty d@mn good. Most people don't need or want office on their home computers, but even if they did, it can be bought for much less than that with some shopping around. I got full, legal, licenced Office 2007 Professional a year ago for under $200 on sale. That is the full office package with all of the tools that most don't need. For someone that doesn't want to spend anything there is OpenOffice. So, knock your $800 off too, sice this can be had for free if you need it. If they want/need Office it can be had for MUCH less than your $800 figure.

Upgrade to Windows 7? Why? Most people never update the OS on their computers and just continue to use what was on it when it arrived. The only exceptions to this that I know of are techies (which are a minority of computer users in general) and Mac users who seem to have to have the latest version of any OS to come out of Cupertino. So you can remove you $200-$400 here too.

There goes your cr@ck kicking in again. $160 for an extra battery? Even Dell only charges $100 extra for a second 9 cell battery for their XPS systems. I have had laptops for several years and have never needed a second battery, but then most times I have used my laptop away from my desk I have still been near some kind of power source. Knock off $60 minimum for this. I would say knock off the full $160, but there are a VERY small number of people this might apply to.

So, the real cost is $750 + 0 (free antivirus) + 0 (don't need office or can use free OpenOffice) + 0 (Who needs to upgrade their OS, this one works fine) + 100 (I'll give this to you, though for most it would be 0 also) = $850 Yep, still a LOT less than the Mac and $520 less that what you estimate. I feel sorry for the people you help buy computers.

RE: Seriously... ?
By monomer on 5/6/2009 5:31:51 PM , Rating: 2
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but wow, you really need to stop listening to the Apple Marketing machine.

Adding in extra software on top of Windows but not for OS X is completely ludicrous.

$800 dollars for MS Office? Are you claiming that Mac's come with the equivalent of MS Office Ultimate Edition?
Most people buying a $750 laptop will probably be looking either a bundled version of MS Works, or at the $100 Office Home and Student. Mac's don't come with free productivity software either, so again, you're looking at$50 for iWork, or $100 for Office Mac Home and Student.

As for AV software, you can get free versions for the PC. Additionally, Apple itself now recommends that Mac users install some type of AV software now too, so again, it's a wash.

Finally, talking about having to upgrade to Windows 7 for continued support is an outright lie, as MS will support Vista for at least another 3 years, just as they have done for all their previous versions. Snow Leopard is also due to come out at roughly the same time as Windows 7, and I'd be very surprised if Apple were to provide that for free.

RE: Seriously... ?
By cyriene on 5/6/2009 7:14:12 PM , Rating: 2
Also, I don't think Snow Leopard will support the PowerPC Mac users, so how about their continued support?

I guess they can just spend $2800 on a new Mac since their PowerPC will be "outdated" anyway...

That's one point Apple always makes that pisses me off. They also made it with upgrading to Vista and needing all new software. Well, when OS9 went to OSX we had to buy all new software for the school since our apps didn't work with OSX, so Apple can shove it with that point.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Fallen Kell on 5/7/2009 6:28:51 PM , Rating: 2
Also, I don't think Snow Leopard will support the PowerPC Mac users, so how about their continued support?

I seem to remember a time just over a year ago when Vista came out and didn't even support PC's sold just a month or two before and even claimed that they supported Vista! So I wouldn't say too much about not supporting a hardware platform that hasn't been produced in over 3 years as a ding against Mac. MS couldn't support PC's that were made just a month before....

RE: Seriously... ?
By lagomorpha on 5/6/2009 9:30:51 PM , Rating: 1
RE: Seriously... ?
By 67STANG on 5/7/2009 12:34:40 AM , Rating: 5
Just so you know, I found this post super-offensive. My brother has down syndrome and we have to feed him by hand for every meal. We also just found out he has a rare tumor and will probably die soon. By they way, my brother's name is Steve Jobs.

What? Too soon?

RE: Seriously... ?
By afkrotch on 5/7/2009 2:46:40 AM , Rating: 2
lol, that's great.

RE: Seriously... ?
By nixoofta on 5/7/2009 1:46:36 PM , Rating: 2
bizzaro even

RE: Seriously... ?
By Vile2600 on 5/7/2009 2:21:06 AM , Rating: 4
Yet another example of an inexperienced computer user.

I'll go ahead and clarify and correct your mistakes, since I'm an actual Mac and PC user.

My MacBook Pro didn't come with Antivirus software and it didn't come with Office for Mac, so go ahead and add those two figures to your Mac price as well. Antivirus software generally does not cost $60/year depending on which one you use, so that's yet another flawed point.

A spare battery is not required for a PC, and the battery life of the Mac, although slightly better performing than my PC is not significantly better; definitely not so great to the point where it would justify needing a spare battery for the PC to compete with.

As for Windows 7, once again, not required, but if one does happen to purchase a PC within the time frame of Windows 7 coming out, Microsoft will offer the free upgrade to Windows 7 for them, like they did for XP --> Vista.

In the end, its clear that your post contains nothing but biased information with no accurate, factual data to back up your claims.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Fallen Kell on 5/7/2009 6:34:58 PM , Rating: 2
I guess you are not using the 2009 17" Macbook Pro. While its battery isn't easily swap-able, it really does get 8 hours (I have gotten longer when only doing light duty stuff like browsing the net). But unlike what Apple says, you can easily replace that battery. It is just a couple screws and you can pop the battery out if you need to replace it due to age.

RE: Seriously... ?
By afkrotch on 5/7/2009 2:26:09 AM , Rating: 2
Free AV software
Office 2k7 Standard - $400
Office 2k7 Pro - $500
Windows 7 RC1 - Free for a year
Spare Battery - $100 or less (never seen any that has ever been $160, nice markup there. You work with Apple?)

Total cost? $0, as I don't want any of that extra crap. Wow, I have the choice of not being force fed crap I don't need. Well, I did buy an extra battery for my 12.1" laptop, which cost me a total of............$40 from the manufacturer's website.

Also guess what? Apple also tells you to get AV software for your Mac. You'll also need to upgrade to OSX Snow Leopard. Let's throw in Office 2k8 for Mac too. I can increase the cost of a Mac with crap you don't need also.

RE: Seriously... ?
By DrRap on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: Seriously... ?
By tjr508 on 5/6/2009 2:10:55 PM , Rating: 5
If "most people liked the macs(sic) despite there(sic) price tag," then they would have a majority market share.

RE: Seriously... ?
By DrRap on 5/7/2009 2:06:51 AM , Rating: 1
that's what study is saying not me.ask for the data from the conductors.

RE: Seriously... ?
By glitchc on 5/7/2009 3:25:13 PM , Rating: 2
Most people like Ferraris over other cars too. I don't see Ferrari with a majority market share.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Hakuryu on 5/6/2009 2:14:17 PM , Rating: 1
But you have to wonder who the people were they surveyed. If it was the typical Best Buy customer, who has the computer literacy of a 5th grader, then I'd say the survey was skewed. I've seen BB employee's selling people things like anti-malware and anti-spyware suites for $50+, telling them they need them and this was a good deal - and the customer believed them.

I do agree that to someone with limited computer experience, they will probably have an easier time with a Mac, but then I also agree that if you know what you are doing then a PC is the way to go.

The CR article might have been better if they surveyed not only BB, but a website like NewEgg also.

RE: Seriously... ?
By mondo1234 on 5/6/2009 2:34:32 PM , Rating: 2
If it was the typical Best Buy customer, who has the computer literacy of a 5th grader, then I'd say the survey was skewed.

Well, you just shot the Microsoft commercials to HE11 didn't you....

RE: Seriously... ?
By afkrotch on 5/7/2009 2:48:58 AM , Rating: 3
Actually, more like every single commercial. You're stupid if you use a commercial to make your buying decisions.

RE: Seriously... ?
By mindless1 on 5/6/2009 3:17:13 PM , Rating: 3
Someone with limited computer experience will be better off with a PC because what little they do know will be exposure to contemporary systems running the OS with global domination (for better and worse). Windows.

Not only will getting started be easier, the knowledge they learn will be more useful in encounters with other computers till the day comes that some other OS dethrones MS' majority position.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Souka on 5/6/2009 7:09:53 PM , Rating: 4
don't forget the fact that most of their peers will know how to use a PC at some level...where as many people have never used or seen a Mac ouside a TV ad.

RE: Seriously... ?
By True Strike on 5/6/2009 1:02:28 PM , Rating: 3
Heck yeah! It gives you a +5 to looking trendy when you take it to your local coffee shop to surf the web.

RE: Seriously... ?
By xti on 5/6/2009 2:06:36 PM , Rating: 2
iphones and ipods make u trendy.

apple notebooks make you...kinda foolish? a bad shopper? into pictures too much? idk i dont get the same vibe.

RE: Seriously... ?
By omnicronx on 5/6/2009 3:51:38 PM , Rating: 2
The iPhone is without a doubt the most easy to use and full featured smartphone out there. At the moment nothing directly competes with it. Same can be said for the ipod, although others players have caught up, they were so far ahead of the competition for years that I think they have earned their market position. While I would never buy either, I can at least realize that both are good products, and probably deserve their current status

You cannot really make the same argument with either Mac notebooks or desktops. You are paying for the name, the shiny case, and the cool factor. There is nothing any Mac can do, that a PC cannot. While the iPhone can do many things other smartphones cannot, and the ipod has its advantages too (like the mass amounts of addon hardware available). So please enlighten me, what exactly can a 300% marked up Mac do, that a comparable PC product cannot?

RE: Seriously... ?
By Runiteshark on 5/6/2009 5:29:34 PM , Rating: 2
Two words:

Google Phone.

RE: Seriously... ?
By bigboxes on 5/7/2009 12:01:13 AM , Rating: 2
Seriously, what do you need an iphone for? I mean you bought that thing just to surf the internet while on the go, right? Couldn't you wait until you got home or to work? I don't see the need. I have a phone. I use it to *gasp* talk to people. I don't need the internet while driving. When I'm at home I have a superfast cable internet connection and a 20" screen w/mouse. At work... you get the idea. I have a Sansa mp3 player that I never use. Why? Cuz I can play whatever I want over my high end speakers at home due to the fact that I'm an adult. Tell me why you need that overpriced iphone and it's overpriced monthly subscription? I'm all ears.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Donkey2008 on 5/7/2009 1:39:14 AM , Rating: 2

I'll try and answer that from my perspective. It is a really long read, but if you want a thoughtful, honest answer to your inquiry, here is mine...

I am on the road 50% of my day and I don't have time to simply stop by work or home to check my email or surf the web, so a smart phone is the only logical option for me. I was a long-time BB user and now I am a daily iPhone user.

Reasons why I think the iPhone is legit:

- ActiveSync; contrary to what BB fanboys say, it works perfectly with Exchange and I get all of my email, all of my Outlook folders, all of my contacts and all of my calendar events as fast, if not faster, than any BB I have ever owned. Also, native support for Gmail and Yahoo mail is seamless (and again, I get my folders).

- Apps; when I am on the road I sometimes get basic Windows network requests from clients - i.e. a password reset, disabling an account, restarting services (ironically sometimes a BES server) - and no matter where I am, I can VPN into any client network and RDP into the servers. VPN functionality is already built into the iPhone (FREE) and the Mocha Remote Desktop app ($5.99) works perfectly. Need a handy ping tool when the laptop isn't around? Need to ping an entire subnet? There is an app for that and many other common network tools. Heck, I can do just about any network job with my iPhone...while sitting at Taco Bell eating lunch.

- Multimedia; I could care less about listening to MP3s, but the ability to play video is a nice feature. The occasional showing of the latest DVD release has been known to happen during those long formats or backup jobs. Coverting an xvid, DVD, mkv, avi, qt to the required MP4 format (H.264) is a painless process (Videora app) and I can even output the video from the iPhone to an HDTV with either composite or component with an Apple A/V cord.

- Price; monthly fee is very competitive with any other mobile device. Bought a refurb 16GB iPhone for $199, which is no more expensive than any BB or Palm (cheaper in most cases). AT&T 900 RO minutes $59.99 + data plan $30 + $5 for 200 texts = $94.99 a month. Previous Verizon BB Storm plan was 900 minutes (**non RO**) $59.99 + data plan $30 + $15 BB enterprise support = $104.99 (that isn't mentioning the $99/year BES license).

- Misc;

Safari - I rarely surf the internet, but Safari allows seamless access to my SharePoint server when I require network documentation, which is again very handy if the laptop isn't around. I could never get any BB browser to do this correctly. Safari also works perfectly with OWA (I test client OWA with it, but use AS for my own email).

Wi-Fi support - while not exclusive to the iPhone, it switches absolutely seamlessly between any wireless network. No need to manually connect to each AP as previous devices I have owned required.

The OS itself - smooth as butter. Scrolling through contacts, email, text messages, etc. is a pleasure. It is polished, professional, easy to use and highly functional.

Google Maps / GPS / Yahoo Messenger / etc. - again, not exclusive, but it comes in handy when I need to find an address or to say hi to mom once in a while.

- Negatives;

iPhone does not have tethering support. I doubt I would ever personally use it, but it would be nice to have.

Battery life - with wi-fi and 3G enabled I can only get 1 1/2 days of use @ 30% brightness. If I turn only 3G off, I get ~ 1/3 more battery life and it can easily go 2 full days without a recharge (this is my normal setting). By the way, the Edge network (the data network before 3G that the iPhone defaults to when 3G is off) works perfectly fine with email and light surfing. My tested connection speeds - 3G 1.5/256k, Edge 196k/54k.

Overall the iPhone is simply amazing IMO. It is MUCH more than just a fancy iPod. I save the games for when the nephew wants to mess with it (he loves Flick Fishing and Pocket God, I occasionaly play GL Golf), but I use my iPhone in corporate environments on a daily basis and it is a pleasure to do so. MUCH more so than any mobile device I have ever owned.

Just my 2 cents.

RE: Seriously... ?
By nixoofta on 5/7/2009 1:57:47 PM , Rating: 2
That's way more than two cents.


RE: Seriously... ?
By Donkey2008 on 5/7/2009 10:51:34 PM , Rating: 2
Let me summarize then; The only people who I ever see complaining about iPhones on different forums are people who don't even own one. Once they do, the complaining usually stops.

I cannot count the number of BB owners and IT people I know who called the iPhone a "trendy toy" and now own one.

RE: Seriously... ?
By bigboxes on 5/8/2009 12:57:40 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I see your kind all the time at the light checking their e-mail, texting, surfing the net. Watching videos? How is that different than mp3s? Are you 16? What can't wait until you get home? Oh, that's right! You're on the road 50% of your day!... I'm not saying that the device doesn't do all you claim. It's just who really needs it? I'm visualizing a teenager (who can't afford such a device and service on their own) or a college student with way too much time on their hands.

If you use it for business then +1 for you. As far as mom goes I just push the speed-dial button and TALK to her. In reality I can just wait until I am no longer mobile and am at home or at work.

RE: Seriously... ?
By afkrotch on 5/7/2009 2:56:53 AM , Rating: 2
My NTT Docomo F906i can compete with the iPhone and it's not even a smartphone. It's also got a huge list of features that the iPhone doesn't have. It's of course only sold in one country in the world. The country the iPhone isn't doing great in. Japan.

I wish these Japanese companies would sell their phones outside of Japan.

RE: Seriously... ?
By TomZ on 5/6/2009 2:14:49 PM , Rating: 4
In other news, Paula Abdul admits she's addicted to pills.

RE: Seriously... ?
By DrRap on 5/7/2009 4:46:35 AM , Rating: 2
and Pirks is consistently scoring -1 for all his posts.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Pirks on 5/7/2009 2:28:04 PM , Rating: 1
RE: Seriously... ?
By OPR8R on 5/6/2009 3:33:01 PM , Rating: 2
A better comparison would be $999 vs. $750. If you're comparing Macbook Air to similar Windows laptops, it's more like $2800 vs. about $2200.

I understand you guys like Windows machines (so do I), but you're comparing apples to oranges.

RE: Seriously... ?
By Alexstarfire on 5/6/2009 10:38:02 PM , Rating: 3
It's apparently always apples to oranges, no matter the specs. Someone always says it's not right, so why bother comparing them anymore?

RE: Seriously... ?
By Steve1981 on 5/6/09, Rating: 0
RE: Seriously... ?
By walk2k on 5/6/2009 7:21:39 PM , Rating: 3
In other news, studies find that ice is just like water, only colder and harder.

this is nothing new....
By AEvangel on 5/6/2009 12:27:16 PM , Rating: 2
While the report might be accurate, the story is the same as it always has been and the reason while Apple is still not a major brand in the PC market.

The bottom line is for 90% of users out there the Windows machine will do everything you need it to do for a third of the price.

RE: this is nothing new....
By Motoman on 5/6/2009 12:50:36 PM , Rating: 5
I disagree wholeheartedly. Allow me to adjust your statement...

The bottom line is for 100% of users out there the Windows machine will do everything you need it to do for a third of the price.

RE: this is nothing new....
By Pirks on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: this is nothing new....
By smackababy on 5/6/2009 1:02:19 PM , Rating: 2
And what Mac exclusive software is there that someone would need that has no PC counterpart?

RE: this is nothing new....
By omnicronx on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: this is nothing new....
By msomeoneelsez on 5/6/2009 1:44:46 PM , Rating: 2
Sony Vegas.

That is considered to be the best in the business by many.

I may be wrong, but I believe that is a PC only product... but if I am misguided in that statement, do correct me :D

RE: this is nothing new....
By Motoman on 5/6/2009 2:18:41 PM , Rating: 5
People get attached to software that they used. It's natural. I wish I could still use Final Copy - the word processor I had on my Amiga 500.

I get an enormous kick out of Macolytes that are "forced" to use Photoshop on a PC..."what do you mean right-click? OMG, this is ridiculous, I can't possibly use this thing..."

RE: this is nothing new....
By Old Man Dotes on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: this is nothing new....
By callmeroy on 5/6/2009 3:11:41 PM , Rating: 3
I've been in the IT consultant business for well over a decade, I've worked on many many IT projects big and small, I've deployed networks, thousands of computers over the years....for the banking industry, health care, retail and publishing firms..........of all those projects and all those years working on them.....we did have some Mac setups to do --- about 10% of our projects called for any Apple products whatsoever. So I guess thousands of executives in all those companies aren't professionals then because they don't pray at the altar of Apple.

RE: this is nothing new....
By TomZ on 5/6/2009 3:15:48 PM , Rating: 4
I know you're just being a troll, but I had a good laugh at your "professional" comment. Apple has practically zero marketshare in businesses. Even Apple zealots know that.

RE: this is nothing new....
By christojojo on 5/6/2009 3:44:35 PM , Rating: 5

I know all types of professionals, do you mean professional hitmen that wear only white out fits and shoes?


Professional belly Dancers that wear all white vales and gems?

or Professional soldiers that wear white uniforms and sail the crystal clear seas?

Please stop the fanboy stuff and just say you prefer Apples over Windows.

I am a professional teacher and I prefer Windows because I have two fingers that work on my right hand (and yes a thumb). I also, like the price to performance ratio on the PC side.

The actual truth of my preference was I started with Windows experience.

I also, like Linux a little more just for the change in pace and elitist feelings it gives me but then again I am cheap and I don't like paying for some goober in glasses in a commercial for the extra bucks either.

RE: this is nothing new....
By ClownPuncher on 5/6/2009 3:44:36 PM , Rating: 2
How does a computer "keep it's value"? Because none of the software made for it will tax the hardware?

A professional wants something that will perform it's tasks the best it can, for the cheapest price.

Even the graphic design market that used to be with Mac's is moving to Windows. Driver support for professional hardware being one of the reasons.

RE: this is nothing new....
By omnicronx on 5/6/2009 3:14:10 PM , Rating: 2
Apple is home to a few apps that are considered the industry standard.

Don't get me wrong, I would never own anything but a PC, but the question was asked, and I answered ;)

My belief is that there is nothing you can do on a Mac that you cannot do on a PC, but my opinion (yours and everyone elses here) is irrelevant in this matter.

RE: this is nothing new....
By tjr508 on 5/6/2009 2:23:55 PM , Rating: 2
I don't believe that software availability is an Apple selling point. It is counterproductive at best once it reaches any sort of debate.

RE: this is nothing new....
By ClownPuncher on 5/6/2009 3:35:04 PM , Rating: 2
Quark is Mac OS only, eh? I think no. Also, there are better programs out there than Quark

RE: this is nothing new....
By QueBert on 5/6/2009 3:06:12 PM , Rating: 2
Logic Audio, while there are similar PC products, if you need Logic you NEED Logic. There are others programs, but Logic would be a huge one for a lot of people. I know quite a few producers and sound engineers and they refuse to use a PC due to lack of Logic.

RE: this is nothing new....
By Motoman on 5/6/2009 3:11:32 PM , Rating: 5
they refuse to use a PC due to lack of Logic

RE: this is nothing new....
By QueBert on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
By wetwareinterface on 5/7/2009 12:22:01 AM , Rating: 2
But maybe you're right, they should switch to a PC cos it's cheaper... forget the fact they'll go broke because they can no longer use Logic + all the plugins they use to make music. The money saved on a PC would clearly be worth it.

sorry but your plugin argument is vapor, logic uses au or vst plugins either of which can be used with cubase on a mac. out of the au plugins there's like 3 that do not have a vst or dx p.c. side version. of those there are over 10 equivalent plugins you could use in their place on a p.c.

logic (and it's former parent company, emagic) is and always has been a small player in the music daw market that's why apple was able to swallow them up so easily. logic is not the industry standard for professionals, pro-tools is, cubase is second, sonar is 3rd, logic is around 4th or 5th depending on if you include reaper or not as "professional level" daw software. pro-tools is also p.c. as is cubase and sonar, which outsells logic 2-1, is p.c. only.

because you like logic doesn't mean the rest of the music world shares your view or that any of the ones i mentioned are the "best". it's all personal preference as to what you want to use. if you want to take your projects to any studio however you better have pro-tools, or export everything to seperate audio tracks. logic is by no means the standard app in music studios.

By StevoLincolnite on 5/6/2009 1:08:03 PM , Rating: 2
For every piece "piece" of exclusive apple software there is probably an alternative on windows machines, it's the larger market so developers are sure to make something for it to maximize profits.

Same ole same ole
By Stillone on 5/6/2009 12:27:35 PM , Rating: 2
They haven't said anything that hasn't already been said right here in these forums. Everyone pretty much agrees that Mac cost a lot and PC are less. Higher priced Macs seem to perform better than lower costing PC's. I kinda want to see them do the paces on similar priced laptops. Say a $2700 Mac (laptop) vs. a $2700 PC (laptop). Personally, I think they perform very similar anyway in any respect. It seems to be more of a personal preference.

RE: Same ole same ole
By DEredita on 5/6/2009 12:31:47 PM , Rating: 4
A $2700 Windows laptop would've had a quad core, 8GB of ram, high end mobile video with 1GB dedicate video ram, and at least a 500GB hard drive.

RE: Same ole same ole
By Pirks on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: Same ole same ole
By AmbroseAthan on 5/6/2009 2:05:42 PM , Rating: 3
Mac Book Pro 17in: $2,799.00
2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
320GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
1920x1200 LED Backlit Screen
Backlit Keyboard (English) / User's Guide
1" thick, 6.6 lbs

Dell Studio XPS 16: $2,089
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T9550 (6MB cache/2.66GHz/1066Mhz FSB)
16.0 inch RGBLED LCD (1920x1080) W/2.0 MP
4GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1067MHz (2 Dimms)
500GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive
BluRay Disc Combo
ATI Mobility RADEON® HD 3670 - 512MB
AVerTV NanoExpress TV Tuner
Intel 5150 Wimax, Wireless-N combo card
Additional 9-Cell Battery
1" thick, ~6.4lbs

I barely even tried to trick out the Dell, but for $800 less I already have a better HDD, better screen, ability to watch TV, better graphics, better wireless... all in the same size/weight area. Plus the thing is good looking (imo).

RE: Same ole same ole
By Steve1981 on 5/6/2009 2:08:39 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, but it's only an 16" screen :P

RE: Same ole same ole
By AmbroseAthan on 5/6/2009 2:15:45 PM , Rating: 2
I am just a sucker for the %110 Color Gamut, figured it made up for the 1"... wish I could find a desktop monitor backlit by RGB LED's (within reasonable costs)!

RE: Same ole same ole
By MrPeabody on 5/6/2009 2:59:14 PM , Rating: 2
No no, the smaller screen is good!

I think. Well, maybe. Actually, I'm still pretty confused.

RE: Same ole same ole
By DEredita on 5/6/2009 2:50:10 PM , Rating: 3
HP dv7t: ($2,799.99)

• Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad Processor Q9000 (2.00Ghz)
• 8GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
• 1TB 5400RPM SATA Dual Hard Drive (500GB x 2) with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
• 1GB ATI Mobility Radeon(TM) HD 4650 Graphics - For Quad Processors
• 17.3" diagonal HD+ High-Definition HP BrightView Widescreen Display (1600 x 900)
• LightScribe SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-RW with Double Layer Support

RE: Same ole same ole
By christojojo on 5/6/2009 3:49:48 PM , Rating: 2
By DEredita on 5/6/2009 12:31:47 PM , Rating: 3 A $2700 Windows laptop would've had a quad core, 8GB of ram, high end mobile video with 1GB dedicate video ram, and at least a 500GB hard drive.

See, he was right. It didn't have the above. DEredita wins, lol.

RE: Same ole same ole
By Pirks on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: Same ole same ole
By themaster08 on 5/6/2009 6:24:32 PM , Rating: 1
It's true that the Macbook has it's advantages over the Dell, but I find it funny how you completely miss the more productive advantages of the PC. That being the case, I will remind you of a few of these advantages:-

320GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm - MacBook
320GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm - PC

Advantage - PC

SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW) - MacBook
BluRay Disc Combo - PC

Advantage - PC

AVerTV NanoExpress TV Tuner - PC
No TV Tuner - MacBook

Advantage - PC

Last, but by no means not least:-

Mac Book Pro 17in: $2,799.00
Dell Studio XPS 16: $2,089

Advantage - PC!

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but personally I'd prefer to sacrifice a few hours battery time and a slight amount of added weight, to gain more productive advantages and lower cost.

RE: Same ole same ole
By themaster08 on 5/6/2009 6:26:45 PM , Rating: 2
Oops. That's meant to be:-

320GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm - MacBook
500GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive - PC

Advantage - PC

RE: Same ole same ole
By Pirks on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: Same ole same ole
By teldar on 5/6/2009 9:49:07 PM , Rating: 2
Where is this efficiency coming from if Apple is using the same hardware as everyone else? They're either a lot more agressive in underclocking it all or ..... There can't be a whole lot of options, actually. The same hardware should run the same amount of time. Or close to it.
OS will make some difference, but not hours.

RE: Same ole same ole
By espress0 on 5/6/2009 7:00:35 PM , Rating: 1
Dont forget 1 hour of battery life with your sweet plastic dell there guy. :) Macs are a little more expensive but but well worth it. So you can get a better graphics card for games in a pc... have fun leaving it plugged in all the time. If you compare the dell workstation to te mac book pro the price difference isnt that great, besides vista blows and 7 will be a let down as well. Xp's only saving grace was games and since apple owns EA now that will go the way of the dinosaurs soon enough. I am a sound engineer and I am a mac. :P

RE: Same ole same ole
By Pirks on 5/6/09, Rating: 0
RE: Same ole same ole
By just4U on 5/7/2009 1:09:21 PM , Rating: 1
There is a a rumor going around that EA is about to be purchased by Apple. (or something along those lines)

You can read about it here..

RE: Same ole same ole
By themaster08 on 5/6/2009 7:13:11 PM , Rating: 2
I am a sound engineer and I am a mac. :P

You are an idiot and you are a Mac.

RE: Same ole same ole
By Pirks on 5/6/09, Rating: 0
RE: Same ole same ole
By afkrotch on 5/7/2009 4:37:50 AM , Rating: 2
I'd say pretty much everyone leaves their notebook plugged in more than it's unplugged.

Also Apple doesn't own EA. Just rumours about Apple buying EA, but nothing has come up about them actually doing it. Let alone them even considering doing it.

Even if they did purchase EA, do you think they'd be stupid enough spend that much money on a gaming company and just turn it into a Mac only game developer/publisher? That'd be like buying all of Chrysler just to make cars for a city of 10,000.

RE: Same ole same ole
By yomamafor1 on 5/6/2009 12:53:02 PM , Rating: 2
A $2700 laptop will blow a $2700 Mac out of the water, and eat it for appetizer. Like the one before me says, a $2700 laptop will feature a quad core, 8GB of memory, a high end graphics card, a SSD, a 17" LED lit screen running WUXGA, and a Blu-Ray player; most of which a Mac won't have.

But of course, most people will still rush out to buy Mac, because for some reason once you buy a Mac, you become "cooler": a message not only Apple itself promotes, so is its distributor and resellers.

RE: Same ole same ole
By Old Man Dotes on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
RE: Same ole same ole
By TomZ on 5/6/2009 3:23:40 PM , Rating: 2
Obviously you're a Linux disciple and have an axe to grind, which has clearly clouded your judgement.

The reality is that there is no significant difference in depreciation between Apple PCs and Windows PCs. I watch Craigslist quite a bit for used computers, and expensive Windows PCs are typically listed for similar prices as Apple PCs.

And of course, there is a much larger market of used Windows PCs since the installed base is probably 25X the installed base of Apple PCs.

RE: Same ole same ole
By omnicronx on 5/6/2009 3:26:37 PM , Rating: 2
And why do you think that is? Could Apple having a 1.5-2+ year product refresh time have anything to do with it? In the PC world resale value plummets because a year later, machines that are far more powerful are available. In the Mac world, your used laptop could be identical to the ones they are still selling, i.e the resell value is artificially inflated.

Furthermore unless you plan on selling your laptop, resale value is irrelevant. The number of people who use their laptop until it dies dwarfs the amount of people who sell them after a year or two.

RE: Same ole same ole
By themaster08 on 5/6/2009 6:30:19 PM , Rating: 2
And have a resale value after just one year of about $900. The Mac's resale value will still be well above $2000.

Umm, probably because PC hardware will have moved on by leaps and bounds whilst Macs will still be using the same, outdated hardware as the ones being resold a year later.

RE: Same ole same ole
By chick0n on 5/7/2009 12:38:07 AM , Rating: 2

I want to see that.

Can you show me an example? or did it just came out of your a$$ again ?

RE: Same ole same ole
By bplewis24 on 5/6/2009 1:05:08 PM , Rating: 2
That would have been nice. Unfortunately, this is in one of the very first paragraphs of the article:

The publication purchased most of its computers at Best Buy.

How many people that want a top-of-the-line performance PC shop for it at Best Buy? Not only does this show why the CR survey/study is flawed, but it shows why the PC business model flourishes: there are many more options and outlets with which to secure the right PC to fit your needs.


CR is ok ...
By DrRap on 5/6/2009 12:20:19 PM , Rating: 3
consumer report is ok
but what happen to price performance ratio..

RE: CR is ok ...
By DrRap on 5/6/2009 12:41:47 PM , Rating: 2
and with 2.8k price tag we can buy carbon fiber body laptops those are way better then macs in build quality.

RE: CR is ok ...
By bplewis24 on 5/6/2009 1:09:18 PM , Rating: 2
Great point. You'd think a thorough and in depth study would put a high value on price:performance. I mean when the leading lightweight laptop is 5 points ahead of 2nd place but costs 2-3x it, it seems like diminishing returns in terms of performance and an inefficient use of money.


RE: CR is ok ...
By DrRap on 5/6/2009 1:17:10 PM , Rating: 2
performance wise PC is almost equal to MAC at the given price .and if we stay away from the emotions and consider this point is study then this will turn the graph upside down.

RE: CR is ok ...
By VashHT on 5/7/2009 12:15:46 AM , Rating: 2
So you admit they have the same performance at the prices given, but somehow the Mac is magically better. Maybe you should learn to use Windows sometime, it's really no harder than OSX I promise. I've used both, and guess what, when you learn either one they're both just as 'intuitive' as the other. Just because Apple commercials say OSX is more intuitive and easier to use doesn't mean it is. Both work great if you know what you're doing, so what's with the huge pricetag increase on macs?

CR is Bias
By SpaceJumper on 5/6/2009 1:47:54 PM , Rating: 3
I read a lot of consumer reports in the past and am no longer believing in what CR is reporting.

RE: CR is Bias
By SublimeSimplicity on 5/6/2009 2:09:31 PM , Rating: 2
In 2000 I had a Pontiac Grand Prix. My sister had driven it and liked it and decided she was going to get one. Then she read consumer reports and it said it was unreliable. She proudly bought a Chevy Monte Carlo, which consumer reports had praised with much higher reliability ratings.

For those that don't know, aside from a few aesthetic differences, the only real difference was an aluminum vs a stamped steel engine cradle.

RE: CR is Bias
By AEvangel on 5/6/2009 8:13:19 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, I think your point is well made CR is about as trustworthy as our gov't.

RE: CR is Bias
By christojojo on 5/6/2009 3:55:28 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. I stopped my subscription way back in 98 since the reviews for tech were not even close to reality. A shame really back in the 80's they helped me alot. OH, well.

RE: CR is Bias
By TomZ on 5/6/2009 4:06:13 PM , Rating: 2
Well, some of their reviews are good. For example, things like washers and dryers. Others have always been crap, like cars (because a car purchase is very subjective). Their computer reviews are somewhere in between.

But really the issue is that many readers of this side are absolute experts in computers. So the advice of some CR review in that context is kind of irrelevant.

But for someone with a modest understanding of computers, their reviews could be useful.

Customer support?
By hlper on 5/6/2009 12:35:49 PM , Rating: 2
Overall, Consumer Reports say that Macs are superior to PCs in quality, customer support, and innovation, but the publication complains that they are overpriced.

The conclusion that Apple has superior customer support surprised me. I even know avid Apple fans that have no love of Apple support, and their very limited warranty coverage was one of the main reasons why I never even tried to make the switch.

RE: Customer support?
By Steve1981 on 5/6/2009 12:42:21 PM , Rating: 3
Customer support for Apples are awesome. My fiance's Superdrive in her 3 year old Macbook Pro died recently. They only wanted $300 for the part plus another $100 or so in labor to fix it. Suffice it to say I declined their generous offer.

RE: Customer support?
By Souka on 5/6/2009 12:57:10 PM , Rating: 1
Welp, you can pickup a drive on ebay for $63.

I don't know your MacBook model, but it should be easy enough to swap the drive with the replacement part.

$70 or $400... your call.

RE: Customer support?
By kkwst2 on 5/6/2009 2:09:55 PM , Rating: 2
Somehow I believe you didn't pick up on the sarcasm in the GP's post.

By tjr508 on 5/6/2009 2:05:36 PM , Rating: 2
Where are they getting this quality figure from? Most reviewers reserve this for build integrity. Do light-up logos add to this?

I want to see a head-to-head quality comparison between Apple's most sturdy build and an entry level Latitude. I don't see the Apple faring too well after the "accidentally dropped it while climbing stairs" test.

RE: Quality?
By xDrift0rx on 5/6/2009 4:41:35 PM , Rating: 2
I think a better comparison would be with Lenovo Thinkpad laptops.

They have a video of them launching one of their thinkpads (t61 i believe) at a wall at 30 or 40 miles an hour WHILE ON and showing it sitting on the ground still running..

My friend on the otherhand, dropped her macbook the other day and broke the screen. she was without her laptop for 2 weeks and cost her all of her savings she was using for a car.

RE: Quality?
By Joz on 5/6/2009 11:20:19 PM , Rating: 2
I remember this video, and I can also attest to ThinkPad quality, both IBM and Lenovo thinkpads.

IBM P3 thinkpad, still running strong on linux and win xp, and a Lenvo Core Duo 1.8ghz (forget model number, to lazy to go downstairs and check.), long battery life, quick and speedy. few years old now, but still going very strong. exelent lcds on thinkpads.

By artemicion on 5/6/2009 5:03:19 PM , Rating: 4
It's so weird to me that people go BATSH!T CRAZY when Mac enthusiasts defend their purchases. I mean, I agree that Mac haters have completely rational arguments to support their position that Macs aren't worth it. But there's a crapload of crap out there in the world that people buy and nobody goes all beserker barrage when that happens.

(Things that I don't think are worth their weight in gold: people who put big-a$$ tires on their big-a$$ trucks, designer purses, any car that costs more than $40,000, that stupid logitech dinovo mini that I want for my home theater setup that never goes down in price, computer parts that yield < 5% increase in performance but cost more than twice the price)

But nobody flails their arms around like a lunatic every time they hear about someone running an i7 rig with triple SLI with $400 graphics cards and four-way RAID on 256gig SSDs and 16 gigs of RAM overclocked on nitrogen cooling and a keyboard that has a button that dispenses piping hot ramen when you press it and the rig comes with a complementary clown that pops into your room and makes you a balloon animal whenever you gain a level in WoW.

Maybe it's the anti-PC ads that got everybody riled up?

By Motoman on 5/7/2009 8:07:23 PM , Rating: 2
But nobody flails their arms around like a lunatic every time they hear about someone running an i7 rig with triple SLI with $400 graphics cards and four-way RAID on 256gig SSDs and 16 gigs of RAM overclocked on nitrogen cooling and a keyboard that has a button that dispenses piping hot ramen when you press it and the rig comes with a complementary clown that pops into your room and makes you a balloon animal whenever you gain a level in WoW.

As a matter of fact, I would be more than happy to mock that person with that PC. I mean, by the time you built a PC like that, it probably cost nearly as much as a Mac for crying out loud.

Apple dont know what their on about!
By ravi100 on 5/6/2009 12:25:35 PM , Rating: 3
Did they even look at alienware computers or voodoo. They would be 10x better than any mac. I hate apple reports!

By Doormat on 5/6/2009 12:52:12 PM , Rating: 2
If you would have read the post, you would have realized that the author brought this up, and CR's methodology was to buy laptops commonly available at your local Best Buy. This includes mostly cheap PCs and the Macs.

Playing it safe
By dflynchimp on 5/6/2009 12:25:40 PM , Rating: 3
I don't know if there's a pitch in baseball that serves as an appropriate analogy to this report, but this certainly doesn't add anything new to the playing field, other than alienating both the PC and Mac fanatics who insist that their system is 100% better than the others.

It's also unfair to add netbooks into the equation since they cater to an entirely different usage bracket. We can't expect Apple to jump onto the ultra-low cost wagon because it's not part of their marketing paradigm, and a significant portion of netbooks run linux which technically does not count towards a windows PC tally.

Regardless, I do believe in the traditional notebook bracket, PC is seeing its preference base expand over Macbooks due to the economy (duh) like the article so Captain Obviously pointed out.

RE: Playing it safe
By nixoofta on 5/7/2009 1:36:12 PM , Rating: 2
The baseball pitch reference you're looking for is....

Underhand Curve Ball.

By Johnmcl7 on 5/6/2009 12:59:49 PM , Rating: 2
"Overall, Consumer Reports say that Macs are superior to PCs in quality, customer support, and innovation, but the publication complains that they are overpriced."

I'm surprised by the innovation comment given the features in Macbooks have usually been seen before in other machines often years before, usually Sony. However the perception is that it is Apple that introduced the feature which I assume this lot seems to mistakenly think as well - it irritates me when people point out a feature in a laptop which has been 'copied from Apple' when that very company had the same feature long before Apple did.

I'm sure when Apple eventually catch up with RGB LED displays on their notebooks and make enough of a song and dance about it to make people believe that's their innovation as well. However as I prefer genuine innovation I'm quite happy with the Studio 16 (aside from the glossy surfaces)


RE: Innovation?
By Fallen Kell on 5/7/2009 7:06:02 PM , Rating: 2
(aside from the glossy surfaces)

This is the bane of my existence especially on laptops! I can deal with it on a desktop display because I can (usually) control the environment where I am using that display (i.e. I will have it oriented in a fixed position in such a manor that light sources will not cause a reflection). But on a laptop, that is next to impossible to do. You bought the laptop so that it could be portable and used in locations that you don't control (outside, at a coffee shop, on an airplane, at a friend's house). This is the LAST place that I want a freaking reflective glossy screen because I CAN'T control all the things that are reflecting on it. The laptop screens were matte finish for a reason....

I will also say though that Apple has made some major strides in innovation that others have not done. Their multi-touch mouse technology really is very useful and intuitive. While you are correct that their systems get outdated by the PC's, when the Macs are introduced, they usually are at the top end of the hardware spectrum.

I would still take the 2009 17" Macbook Pro over just about any other laptop. While it no longer has the fastest CPU, or fastest GPU, its combination of extremely long battery life, high quality display, and decent CPU and GPU makes it the best fit for me and my work. I don't have to carry around extra batteries to last all day on that laptop, something I can't say for any other laptop I have ever used.

3:1 or even 2:1
By MadMan007 on 5/6/2009 12:46:01 PM , Rating: 3
So I could get 2 or even 3 PC laptops over a three year time span and keep up with hardware advances for the price of one Macbook and that's not even counting reselling the PCs. Gee, tough decision.

Apple's quality is based largely on 'initial quality perception as well. Broken hinges anyone?

Not Very Sensible
By tech329 on 5/6/2009 1:32:49 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think it's very sensible to compare a PC and Mac. They are obviously different on price but more than that Apple is the sole manufacturer while thousands or maybe tens of thousands of people make PCs. Apple has absolute control over all of production and quality. Given the control Apple has over the hardware and software one might think they could actually do better on pricing than a PC. Apple does enough volume to get good pricing on hardware so that shouldn't be a significant issue. Either they aren't concerned with cost containment or they're not very good at making computers or they have no qualms about milking their piece of the marketplace for all it's worth.

By elfy6x on 5/6/2009 2:15:34 PM , Rating: 2
Why not compare a macbook to a Sony Vaio Z series? Similar specs to the macbook 13.3 or the air, and even though it's a Sony, it's still cheaper than Apple's laptops in some configurations. Just a thought. It might make for a more comparatively balanced review.

Sony at Best Buy


What a crock of cow dung
By timtaylor25 on 5/6/2009 6:23:17 PM , Rating: 2
How about we compare Apples to Apples (pun intended). I'm a "PC".

MacBook Pro 17-inch

2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
320GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
MacBook Pro 17-inch Hi-Resolution Glossy Widescreen Display
Backlit Keyboard (English) / User's Guide

HP dv7t

• Espresso Black
• Upgrade to Genuine Windows Vista Ultimate with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
• Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad Processor Q9000 (2.00Ghz)
• 4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
• 500GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
• 1GB ATI Mobility Radeon(TM) HD 4650 Graphics - For Quad Processors
• 17.3" diagonal HD+ High-Definition HP BrightView Infinity Widescreen Display (1600 x 900)
• Blu-Ray ROM with SuperMulti DVD+/-R/RW Double Layer
• [For BrightView Infinity Display] Webcam Only
• Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card with Bluetooth
• 50% OFF!! HP Integrated HDTV Hybrid Tuner
• HP Color Matching Keyboard
• Extra 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
• No Modem
• System Recovery DVD with Genuine Windows Vista Ultimate (64-bit)
• Microsoft(R) Works 9.0

Speaking of hornet's nests...
By Cullinaire on 5/6/2009 6:53:36 PM , Rating: 2
There are a few here on DailyTech, and the staff sure loves poking them with sticks!

No love for desktops?
By KGBird on 5/6/2009 7:21:02 PM , Rating: 2
I know that the masses are shifting toward laptops, but what about desktops? The cost versus quality arguments may still apply, but IMHO PCs give you so many more options in desktops and Macs can't touch them.

In other words...
By bigboxes on 5/6/2009 11:39:46 PM , Rating: 2
Overpriced Fashion Accessory

By SiliconAddict on 5/7/2009 12:25:59 AM , Rating: 2
Bullshit. And this is coming from a former owner of two Macs. Both sucked *** when it came to quality and the OS was no better. Apple eventually gets their crap together after a few iterations of something. But be it hardware or software anything they initially put out blows harder then a cat 5 hurricane.

Suprise there...
By ipay on 5/7/2009 4:32:12 AM , Rating: 2
"Consumer Reports Says Macs Feature Better Quality, Higher Prices Than PCs", Gee.. thank you for restating to us the public knowledge that you get what you pay for !!

Pay double get 20% better!
By Nik00117 on 5/7/2009 6:59:42 AM , Rating: 2
Let's all go out and pay double for everything and get 20% better quailty product.

When I shop for computer parts, I know that the more I spend the better quality.

I've never for a second doubted the quality of a Macbook, Ipod, Iphone etc!

Paying that much I expect it to be high quality!

My arguement aganist Mac is that for what you pay it's not worth it.

For example if a Macbook was say $800 and it scored 7% better then a laptop I was considering which was $750 chances are I'd opt for the Macbook

Now let's go with reality when once score was 60/100 and the other one was 50/100.

The 50/100 cost $750
The 60/100 cost $2,300

That's 10% increase in quality for about triple the price. It's not worth the triple to get 10%

I always look mid-range for computers, I don't want to get cheap stuff, however my pockets aren't deep enough for the elite stuff. So I go bang for your buck middle zone like most people should.

Missing the obvious...
By Landiepete on 5/7/2009 7:19:59 AM , Rating: 2
How would they 'rate' ad good, 750$ mainstream laptop with OSX installed ?

By frozentundra123456 on 5/7/2009 7:48:02 AM , Rating: 2
To me, it is sort of like a Lexus vs a Chevy. Both are totally functional and do basically the same job. If one has money to burn and likes it they can buy the Lexus. It will look nicer and maybe have higher quality. However, for most people the Chevy is perfectly adequate, and does everything they need.
Speaking of gateway, the price/performance equation is great, but I have hade serious quality issues with the only gateway that I have purchased. I bought a gateway laptop on sale at best buy about 4 years ago. I had to return the first one because it would not boot at all. The replacement also had random times that it would not boot, and I discovered that it had a 4500 rpm hard drive.

Quality and Reliability
By basbrian on 5/7/2009 9:41:57 AM , Rating: 2
For starters, I am a PC guy with a Mac and I use almost every platform on a daily basis. I have questioned Consumer Reports in the past, but I have come to understand that they hold user survey comments in very high regard. So, referring to the "opinions" of Consumer Reports is partially correct at best.

The fact is that every PC guy I know that is not a narrow-minded gamer-only type has come to appreciate Apple computers in spite of their higher cost. Sure, we would love for them to be less expensive, but the overall quality, reliability, and stability shows a great deal of value. In other words, they are parent proof. So, if you love your mother this Mother's Day, swallow your gamer pride and buy the woman a Mac. Every mother I know would thank you. For me, I will stick with my PC.

Point: Consumer Reports reviews are not for the "tech savvy" or people who think they are. Everything has its place. Don't be upset that Apple actually has one. And for the love of God stop hating something just to make yourself feel good!

By thebrown13 on 5/6/09, Rating: -1
"If you look at the last five years, if you look at what major innovations have occurred in computing technology, every single one of them came from AMD. Not a single innovation came from Intel." -- AMD CEO Hector Ruiz in 2007

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