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2010 Toyota Prius

2010 Honda Insight
Base Prius gets a $1,000 price cut

The most popular hybrid car on the market is the Toyota Prius. The Prius has been around for a decade now and Toyota is getting set to launch a new and larger Prius for 2010 that offers an increased feature set and better fuel economy. One early road test showed that the 2010 Prius achieved 52.5 mpg.

Toyota is going to be pricing the third-generation 2010 Prius to better compete with Honda's new Insight hybrid. The Insight carries a base MSRP of $19,800, undercutting the 2009 Prius selling for a base MSRP of $22,000. However, the 2010 Prius I will carry an MSRP of $21,000 which helps to close the gap between the two hybrids. The 2010 Prius will be offered in five trim levels with the II, III, IV, and V coming in at $22,000, $23,000, $25,800, and $27,720 respectively.

Bob Carter, group vice president and general manager of the Toyota Division, expects the $22,000 Prius II to be the most popular model for consumers. “This model provides more than $2,000 added value, including the features most buyers want, at the same price as the current base model,” said Carter.

Standalone options will include an $1,800 Navigation Package, $3,600 Solar Roof Package (includes Navigation Package), and a $4,500 Advanced Technology Package (Navigation Package plus Radar Cruise Control, Pre-Collision System, Lane Keep Assist, and Intelligent Parking Assist).

The Insight is rated at 41mpg combined for city and highway driving, while the larger new Prius is rated at 50 mpg combined and is classified as a mid-size car offering more space than the Honda.

The economy is hurting sales of all vehicles, including the Prius and other hybrid automobiles. Through Q1 of 2009, the Prius sold 24,277 units, a 43% drop from the same quarter last year. The Insight hit the market in March and sold 569 since then.



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Stop hybrid dumping!
By borowki2 on 4/21/2009 4:44:54 PM , Rating: -1
How will our domestic car-makers recover when Toyota and Honda starts a price war in the only promising market? We must stop this. Milions of green jobs are at stake here.

* First of all, we must restrict the hybrid tax-break only to cars built by money-losing manufacturers. It makes no sense to give corporate welfare to those turning a profit.

* Second, we should put an anti-dumping charge on every foreign hybrid, to bring their prices in line with that of the Volt.

* Third, in the event the Japanese try to end run our effort by building their hybrids here, we should levy a special tax on each of their employees to cover the health benefits of non-employees living in their communities who have no insurance.

* Fourth, our government should declare our child-labor laws to have universal jurisdiction. This will stop the Japanese'spractice of employing schoolgirls on their factory-floor as slave laborers, whcih give them a distinctly unfair competitive advantage.

Fans of hybrids, I'm sure, will complain how these measures will hurt consumers. But if we don't stop the hollowing out of our car industry, pretty soon none of us will have a job. Do you want a future where your kids will be starving like they do in Japan just so you can save a buck now?




RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By Parhel on 4/21/2009 4:52:47 PM , Rating: 3
Starvation and child slaves in Japan? That's news to me.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By borowki2 on 4/21/2009 8:54:59 PM , Rating: 2
I give up. It's basically impossible to spoof liberals, since they are so full of non-sense and employ such twisted logic that you can't make them sound more ridiculous than they already are. Even when you cite facts from a Weird Al Yankovich song, it's still not obvious to people.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By msomeoneelsez on 4/21/2009 9:09:37 PM , Rating: 1
What... the... hell...

You are spouting off some of the most extreme things I have EVER heard, and you say you are trying to spoof liberals?

And you seem to believe that Weird Al is a good source?

Umm...

One word comes to mind.

Hopeless.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By Freezetronius on 4/21/2009 5:01:35 PM , Rating: 3
Oh please, spare us internet tough guy routine.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By mmntech on 4/21/09, Rating: 0
RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By Alexstarfire on 4/21/2009 10:42:21 PM , Rating: 2
With an 8 year warranty, 10 years in California, I'd say at least 8 years. The battery in my 2002 worked just perfectly up until it got totaled a couple weeks back. And the battery wasn't even taken car of like it should have been. I was not aware at the time that the car should be used at least once every two weeks so the battery doesn't drain too much. My car was sitting in a garage for 2 years with no use. As such if my battery went through that kind of crap and was still fine that short of some defect that all hybrid batteries should be fine for many many years.

And what kind of power do you need to drive on the highway? Even in my old 2002 Prius there was still more than enough power to drive on the highway. Of course I don't have to floor it to accelerate around people or go 100+ MPH the whole time. If you seriously need more power to drive on the highway then I suggest to learn to drive again.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By mindless1 on 4/22/09, Rating: 0
RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By Alexstarfire on 4/22/2009 1:59:36 AM , Rating: 2
I never said it was pristine condition over here buddy. I guess you don't really know anything about hybrid batteries though else you'd know that leaving it sitting in a garage for 2 years is worse than using it.

1. Of course, I never said you wouldn't, but many people like to point out that you're going to have to replace it fairly regularly which is just false information. If you have to replace it every 10+ years then it's not really a big deal. Most people don't even keep cars that long anyway. On the other hand there hasn't been a massive surge of people replacing batteries even on the old 1997 model Priuses, the ones only sold in Japan. But hey, if you want to talk about just the US then even the 2000 models have their batteries still working just fine.

And BTW, by "just fine" I mean working as normal.

2. As said before, you obviously know nothing of hybrid batteries. You can go read up on the many stories of cabs going 300,000+ miles on the batteries and they are still working. That is double the warranty mileage even in California.

If you'd like some to do some research on hybrid batteries before you decide to just post trash please go check out PriusChat.com/forums or www.cleanmpg.com.

Your information is about as bad as CNW's "Dust to Dust" report stating that a Hummer was greener than a Prius.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By mindless1 on 4/23/2009 1:03:54 AM , Rating: 2
Pretty crazy for you to try to equate my mention of your lack of evidence as equating to some other person's claim a Hummer is as green.

It is scientific fact that batteries degrade with time and use. Did I write that every single owner will have theirs fail prematurely or anything like that? No.

Instead what I wrote was your observation does not support your conclusion, and further we can't assume battery life for others will be ok because your car happened to be totalled before it needed a new battery.

Please focus on details, when talking about a period of time then switching to yet another factor like 300,000 miles INSTEAD of that period of time and what the capacity will be after that period, you yet again ignore the very real world truth about the eventual cost of battery replacement.

How about you instead go learn a bit about batteries, they are not magic. The technology is bound by the limitations of the components used within it. The battery manufacturers themselves specify these things so if you are trying to claim they are lying, you might want real scientific evidence to counter with because it is not likely the manufacturers themselves will lie about their product being worse in lifespan vs capacity than it really is.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By Alexstarfire on 4/23/2009 2:11:41 PM , Rating: 1
I'm sure I probably know far more than you about these batteries, but that isn't the point. As I mentioned before THERE IS NO FUCKING EVIDENCE YET. Most of the batteries aren't even outside the warranty period yet. I went with the mileage because that's the best there is to compare it to.

And I don't know why you keep saying over and over again that batteries degrade over time.... that's so damn basic. Everyone knows, or should at least, know that. But the fact that you keep stating this tells me only one thing.... you have no idea how a hybrid uses the battery. It never uses the full charge, something between like 10% to 20% at most. I don't quite remember the specifics of the Prius but IIRC it trys to keep the charge between like 60% and 80%. Over time it won't be able to. I can't say for certain, but I see no reason why the car can't adjust this value based on the max charge the battery can hold. It have to guess it, but it shouldn't be too difficult. Since a hybrid will NEVER use the full charge of the battery it can conceivably work perfectly fine for far more than a decade. Considering what a hybrid is supposed to do there is really no reason for the car to stop functioning properly until the battery can't hold a charge period... and that's going to be a LONG way down the road.

But hey... show me some proof that these batteries are going to have to be replaced every 8 years, or 10 in California, when the warranty ends then I can shut my trap. But I already know there isn't any evidence either way and all the circumstantial evidence points to the batteries being able to last well outside their warranty period.

And also, there have been some reports that a whole battery may not need to be replaced but the individual cells that have failed. I think this is more referring to problems when a battery just dies because of some defect. I presume the same could be done with a battery going dead as I'm sure the wear isn't going to be perfectly even across the cells. Of course the people at Toyota may have some system that keeps the wear even. It'd be smart if they did.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By usbseawolf2000 on 4/26/2009 4:11:56 AM , Rating: 2
mindless1,

1) Prius' HV battery end of life is when it can only retain 80% of it's original capacity. The pack does not drop dead but you can continue to continue driving by all means.

2) Replacing HV battery pack is not as expensive as you think. Once it is out of the warranty, the pack itself cost less than $2k. It should cost much less 10 years later (once warranty expired). The old pack has $200 bounty fee because Toyota will pay you to get back the Nickel to recycle, which is worth more than that.

HV battery pack is cheaper than an automatic transmission in the non-hybrid car and AT's warranty is about 1/3 of HV pack's warranty. AT do wear out with many moving parts and much shorter warranty. HV battery pack is maintenance free with no moving parts. Your attention should be focused on non-hybrid AT rather than in the Prius HV pack.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By msomeoneelsez on 4/21/2009 9:07:17 PM , Rating: 1
This is the second entirely uninformed comment you have made in a week... You have been rated to the floor twice... Maybe that is incentive to think about what you are going to say, and why it may or may not be good, and actually do that BEFORE posting.

So do tell me this:
Why is it a good idea to help companies who made bad choices, but throw a big "Eff you" at those who are being successful by making the right choices?

quote:
* Second, we should put an anti-dumping charge on every foreign hybrid, to bring their prices in line with that of the Volt.

Umm... what? Are you trying to say that foreign automakers bringing competition to the market is a form of them dumping their cars on America? As if they couldn't sell them in Japan too?

quote:
* Third, in the event the Japanese try to end run our effort by building their hybrids here, we should levy a special tax on each of their employees to cover the health benefits of non-employees living in their communities who have no insurance.

You have a desire to kill the working man, don't you? Let me quote myself from another post, one that was actually responding to you...
quote:
quote:
It's a matter of fairness

No, it's a matter of your desire to work less, while being supported by those who work harder. Socialism is what you are talking about, and that has shown time after time to be unsuccessful. There are successes, few and far between... and they are VERY lucky.

http://www.dailytech.com/Google+Cuts+Corners+But+T...

Please, read that post as well, because it is very apparent that you need to.

Anyways, back onto topic, socialism (in this example that you give, it is where people are taxed when they are working so that they can support those who don't work) is a bad system because it gives people an incentive NOT to work. In a socialistic system, those who are on welfare don't have to work to get by, they just take their government paid healthcare, unemployment, welfare checks, food stamps, etc. and be a burden to the working class. It is the most backwards system that I know about aside from straight up communism.

Moving on though...
quote:
* Fourth, our government should declare our child-labor laws to have universal jurisdiction. This will stop the Japanese'spractice of employing schoolgirls on their factory-floor as slave laborers, whcih give them a distinctly unfair competitive advantage.


How powerful do you think the US is? Even if there were "schoolgirls on their factory-floor" we would have no control over it other than to embargo the product... And in this case, that would extremely hurt the economy, and political relations with Japan. Bad joo-joo.

quote:
But if we don't stop the hollowing out of our car industry, pretty soon none of us will have a job. Do you want a future where your kids will be starving like they do in Japan just so you can save a buck now?


We all work in car factories? I know I don't...
I also find it hard to believe that one of the most pervasive and innovative democratic controlled economies in the world has starvation running rampant. Yes, I am referring to Japan.

The future that I want is one where a man is entitled to his own work, or the value produced from it.
I want a future with a flat tax so that there is no more representation without taxation.
I want a future that forces those in poverty to work for their own benefit, with only minimal burden on the working population, instead of taking free education and throwing it away, free foodstamps and buying cheetos and mcdonalds.

I am going to repeat another part of my previous response to you.
quote:
quote:
Update: The chart above is from the Joint Economic Committe (based on 2006 IRS data), showing the percentages of federal personal income tax paid by different groups of taxpayers: The top 1% of taxpayers pay about 40% of all income taxes, the top 10% pay 71%, and the top 50% pay 97% of all taxes. The bottom 50% pays less than 3% of all income taxes paid.

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/08/tax-facts-of-d...


Need I say more about how America is already too socialistic? We do NOT need more.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By Alexstarfire on 4/21/2009 10:46:31 PM , Rating: 2
The only problem I see with the stats on the income tax are that the bottom 50% includes just about every teenager who holds a job. You can't honestly expect them to pay as much as someone who has an actual career. I do agree that it is very lopsided, but not as much as the stats suggest.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By msomeoneelsez on 4/22/2009 12:25:32 AM , Rating: 2
Although I understand why you are bringing that up, but I believe it does not sway the information at all. I know many teenagers in my area who are doing anything and everything they can to move out, and get on welfare. They won't admit that they are going to go onto welfare, that is essentially what they do by removing themselves from the school environment and into the "working world."

It is sad, really...

I do definitely thank you for thinking about what is said instead of just spewing out what others have said. It is a nice change from borowki2 and those like him.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By mindless1 on 4/22/2009 1:09:24 AM , Rating: 2
That's not the sad part, the sad part is these jobs which don't require higher education are mandatory for our quality of life in the US, and yet we aren't willing to pay them a livable wage.

The jobs have to get done, someone has to do them. Whether it be the best, the brightest, the luckiest or whoever that goes on to better jobs, there is still a need to provide at least enough incentive to do these jobs that they are done well.

Instead what do we have? As you wrote, we end up paying into welfare taking away the incentive of working so the work is bad, turnovers are high, it's a lose:lose result for everyone and yet we preserve it because we like to push people to achieve.

Furthering mankind is quite important, but sometimes I wonder if we are losing our humanity in the process.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By Alexstarfire on 4/22/2009 2:01:53 AM , Rating: 2
That's why a good bit of those jobs go to teenagers. You know because they don't need to make a living off of it. And I would argue against many of those jobs being "required." I'd bet most of those jobs include the fast food industry and the like which aren't required or necessary at all.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By msomeoneelsez on 4/22/2009 3:19:12 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed.

I would like to add that many of these jobs are low profit as well, so an increase in the wage would either raise unemployment, or require a government subsidy, either of which is bad.

Haha, the government really WOULD be condoning fat people in America :P


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By mindless1 on 4/23/2009 1:22:25 AM , Rating: 2
... and a good bit of them (most actually, if we consider not only minimum wage but instead what I wrote, livable wage) are not going to teenagers.

Many teens, twentysomethings and beyond, do have to make a living. There are a finite number of well paying jobs.

I would argue that most of these jobs are required. Fast food jobs aren't required? Quite wrong, so long as people go to fast food restaurants it is required that someone be there to take orders, cook, clean, etc, etc. Same for any other business, it is required if society deems it important enough to be a good or service where money changes hands.

I think you drastically underestimate the value of these jobs, that you don't know much about industry. Do you have products in your home? Of course you do. Did you know that over 80% of the people involved in producing, delivering, or selling that product to you are in the lower income bracket, and I'm not even talking about sweatshops in China?

The fact is, most jobs do not require a lot of specialized training from a university. Even many of those who graduate from university do not acquire skills they later apply to any significant extent in the jobs they acquire (except arguably English/communication related, but they should have had a firm grasp of that by the end of high school).

Doesn't the poor state of the economy give you even more hints today about the state of the lower class? Record numbers of foreclosures aren't indicative of anything? High levels of debt aren't? It's easy to say people overextended themselves and I do think many do, but someone will let their credit card bill go unpaid before they stop their house payments so the remaining factors are not enough money or well paying jobs left.

Simply putting more kids through college, or them choosing to stay in college where that isn't increasing the number of well paying jobs but is increasing their debt too, is not a solution.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By Alexstarfire on 4/23/2009 2:23:52 PM , Rating: 1
I'm well aware that there are tons of low wage jobs, since I've worked at several myself. There are very few things that are actually needed believe it or not. Restaurants of any kind simply aren't needed, they are a want. Places like PetSmart, and many other specialty stores aren't needed. Places like Bass Pro Shop certainly aren't needed. The list could go on forever. It's not that there aren't certain things these stores provide that are needed. I'm sure we'd all love to keep feeding our pets and fishing, but we don't need the gagillion toys at PetSmart or all the fancy boats at Bass Pro Shop. I'd wager a guess and say that probably half of what companies like UPS and FedEx deliver probably aren't needed by that person. That is a pure guess though, but I think I'm probably underestimating that number.

I would highly argue that the cause of this recession is debt. You know how many of my high school friends are in debt? Well, I suppose I should say were in debt since most have actually been paying them off. Half my friends were. They don't even have living expenses and still couldn't manage it. People just need to learn how to manage their fucking money. You don't need a god damn 3 bedroom house for 1 couple... unless you have kids on the way or something. But even then you don't need to have all the fancy homes. We have two neighborhoods in our town that are $500k+ homes. The average value of the houses surrounding it can't even be $200k. Since they are new it's not surprise no one is really living there. But before this really hit us people were buying up these houses in droves. They continuously spend outside of their income and that is no one's fault but themselves. Naturally this isn't true for EVERYONE, but for a good majority it is. While I can't say this for certain I feel my parents were sorta in that boat. I don't think they overspent, but kept it on the edge. Luckily they have guaranteed jobs so it isn't a problem. That's just my guess though, I don't know what their financial records look like. Could just all be in retirement since they are quickly approaching that date.


RE: Stop hybrid dumping!
By mindless1 on 5/2/2009 1:21:47 AM , Rating: 2
There are multiple reasons someone may want more bedrooms than they need. Suppose they have guests over. Suppose they buy the large home in a nicer neighborhood because they are stuck up, or don't like to deal with people in lower class neighborhoods, or see a home as a good investment they can enjoy at the same time unlike stocks or bonds.

I'm not trying to justify overbuying a house but the typical person isn't buying fancy boats or lots of pet toys. You are right that people have a lot of things they don't need, and certainly that they should have budgeted a bit better including more insulation from job loss by having more savings rather than debt, but at the same time we have to look at the media's influence on the sheep, they are trained to behave this way from early childhood.

Who really needs a cellphone? I bet a lot of people think they do. Regardless, having things you want instead of need to survive is what pushes people to work harder. Take away that incentive and you see more people on welfare which drags down the economy too.


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