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Xbox 360 failures are on the rise since the launch of the New Xbox Experience

A known Xbox 360 hardware issue is beginning to surface in significant numbers recently based on research conducted by video game site Joystiq. Tentatively called the Xbox 360 E74 error, one of the lights on the “Ring of Lights” on the front of your Xbox 360 console flashes red and you receive the error code and message: "E74. System Error. Contact Xbox Customer Support". The symptoms involve the bottom right portion of the indicator ring repeatedly flashing on and off and lines or snow will become visible across the screen.

According to the initial Joystiq article posted on March 13, the Microsoft representative Joystiq contacted told them she wasn't familiar with the problem and that they were looking in to the issue. The E74 error is a known issue that is recognized by Microsoft and is documented on Microsoft’s own support site complete with diagrams. The support site has a last revised time stamp of March 3, 2009 as of this writing, predating the Joystiq article that broke the story.

Microsoft’s support site provides no explanation for the error other than to state, “This behavior occurs when the Xbox 360 console experiences a hardware failure.” Joystiq theorizes the E74 error is related to a hardware video problem where the ANA/HANA scaling chip on Xbox 360s equipped with HDMI functionality has come loose.

The main theory put forward that tries to explain why this particular hardware issue is being seen more frequently is the increased graphical stress caused by the introduction of the New Xbox Experience. The New Xbox Experience was launched on November 19 and provided Xbox Live users with a complete rework of the user interface.

One of the significant changes introduced by the New Xbox Experience was the removal of the blade interface. The blades allowed users to access pages of information and features quickly due to the fact they are stacked on top of each other. The new interface uses full windows to spread out the screen.

Another significant change introduced by the New Xbox Experience was the implementation of a graphical avatar system. Users are allowed to choose their avatar from a large group; each avatar is dressed differently, has a unique hair style, and skin color. Once you have chosen your avatar, you are allowed to customize it with new clothing, accessories, and hair. The stress caused by these visual changes may be what is taking many Xbox 360s to the breaking point for unlucky customers.

An interesting pattern can be seen on a Google Trends chart that shows a noticeable spike in users researching the E74 error in November 2008 right around the launch of the New Xbox Experience.

Joystiq’s analysis of survey respondents show a similar pattern of increased E74 failures starting in November of last year. A conspiracy theory making the rounds speculates Microsoft may have changed the system diagnostics test to report Red Ring of Death error as E74 instead to save money. For errors reported as E74, it would force customers to pay $100 for the repair if the error occurs later than 12 months after purchase. The E74 error is not covered under the 3-year extended warranty set in place for the Red Ring of Death malfunction. Joystiq points out that this theory is unlikely because survey respondents are still reporting Red Ring of Death errors after the launch of the New Xbox Experience.

On March 19, Joystiq posted Microsoft’s official response to the E74 issue where they stated:

E74 is a general hardware error on Xbox 360 indicated by a single red flashing light in the Xbox Ring of Light and an error message visible on the television. This error is unrelated to the three flashing red lights error and there is not a single root cause. We encourage anyone who receives this error to contact Xbox Customer support through www.xbox.com/support or 1-800-4-MY-XBOX. The majority of customers who own Xbox 360 consoles continue to have a terrific experience from their first day, and continue to, day in and day out.

As pointed out by Joystiq, Microsoft’s response fails to adequately answer what causes the E74 error, if there has been an increase in incidents, and why it is not covered while the Red Ring of Death is. The evidence is mounting as Joystiq has posted an update on March 23 showing E74 errors have definitely increased since the introduction of the New Xbox Experience. It remains to be seen how long it takes Microsoft to acknowledge there is an issue and deal with in a way that satisfies their current customers. As past history shows an adequate response may take time.

Microsoft’s top game executive, Robbie Bach, president of the Entertainment & Devices group, said at a dinner in July 2008 that Microsoft’s own research shows that gamers have largely forgiven the company for defective Xbox 360s. Depending on how this issue is handled current customers may not be so quick to forgive.



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Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By SerafinaEva on 3/24/2009 11:45:30 AM , Rating: -1
This is why Microsoft needs to get out off the Console business. It is a software company, not a hardware company. If any other companies have created as faulty a hardware as MS has, they would of gone out of business by now. Microsoft is cheating the cusomters by creating a shoddy product and charging hundreds for it. PS3 is the better product and has higher quality.




RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By Hiawa23 on 3/24/2009 4:28:15 PM , Rating: 3
This is why Microsoft needs to get out off the Console business.

I don't agree as competition is always good & if there was no 360 the PS3 would still be $600. They just need to make sure not to farm development to China trying to save a buck, & properly test the next Xbox before launch. I am not making any excuses for MS, but honestly, I had less problems with my 360s than I had with the PS1 & PS2, so the 360 has been fine for me.


By Kougar on 3/24/2009 4:46:51 PM , Rating: 3
They did test the 360 and launched it anyway figuring they could get away with it, despite the vocal concerns of some engineers stating the hardware wasn't in good enough shape yet.

Despite how much it has eaten into their profits, I would be amazed if they conducted proper tests and actually listened to the results. What I mean is, if the decision to wait or go meant a launch delay I'm sure they'll launch regardless, just as they did with the 360.

http://venturebeat.com/2008/09/05/xbox-360-defects...


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By bety on 3/24/2009 7:26:31 PM , Rating: 2
Your anecdotal experience is irrelevant and yes, competition is good. Foisting known-faulty products, with shoddy design onto the public is not good, it simply lowers the bar/standards and hurts the industry as a whole. Note that we EXPECT MS software to be full of bugs.


By straycat74 on 3/24/2009 10:05:29 PM , Rating: 5
Sony would never sell shoddy products for a premium price by just slapping their name on it.


By Belard on 3/25/2009 9:22:38 AM , Rating: 1
LOL! That's funny! Oh, you're joking, right!?

Sony does make some good stuff, but not everything they make is good. I like SONY's: Phones, conoles (if I bought one), TVs, VCRs-DVD players. I wouldn't touch a SONY: Computer (hardware good, support bad), car stereos, walkmans (other than included in phone) and speakers.


By PoohPall on 3/26/2009 1:19:35 AM , Rating: 2
Ha ha. Ummm choose option A) to exit reality distortion field. Have a nice day.

I have been in the business for many many years. Sony products are generally a joke. Sony should stick with sound products that is ALL they are good at.


By lexluthermiester on 3/25/2009 10:47:19 PM , Rating: 1
I'm not sure why I bother posting on DT... Many of the users are childish, uninformed half-wits. And DT themselves seem to have no problems issuing censorship when it suits them. Very disheartening...


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By Bateluer on 3/24/2009 1:19:18 PM , Rating: 4
Unfortunately, there are way more 360s out there than PS3s, so developers are going to focus more on the 360. Obviously, there are a lot more Wiis out there as well, but developers are scratching their butts with actually developing anything more than kiddie children's games or lame farm animal games.

I would prefer a PS3 over a 360 personally but they need to get the cost down, though the PC still wins hands down.


By Belard on 3/25/2009 9:47:45 AM , Rating: 3
While the PS3 is more "expensive" at $400/500. It is typically $100 more expensive than the xbox360 equivelent.

That $100 difference includes a Blue-Ray player, blue-tooth, wireless (Wifi) networking, bigger HD, user-upgradable HD to any size on the market. The $500 model vs $400 360, still has the above, bigger HD and an extra game. Looking at Newegg, its now $470 with 2 games (one is a voucher).

Lets see... on Newegg..
$87 for a wifi adaptor (Built inside PS3)
$40 for a 512mb memory card (Sony can use a USB Flash drive)

How about a USB keyboard and mouse... oops!

Not needed to buy new 360 cases or PSUs. Cable mess. Loud drives.

PC doesn't win hands down anymore... game support for PC is in the toilet. EA with their SecureROM is really not helping.


By omnicronx on 3/24/2009 1:49:00 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
If any other companies have created as faulty a hardware as MS has, they would of gone out of business by now.
I'm not trying to defend MS here, next time around their business will suffer because of their shotty hardware, but it seems many people (including yourself) seem to be losing your long term memory.

The PS2 had a terrible launch failure rate. Remember the Red box PS2's? Yep, many of them failed within a year of purchase, or would not read certain coloured bottom discs.
The difference being Sony did not replace many peoples consoles if it was after one year, I remember having to sit on the phone for 2 hours before I got someone that was willing to send me a new console. These figures were never widely released to the public, but Sony definitely acknowledged the issue, and I did get a free PS2 because of it. It was estimated the first year of PS2 failures was as high was 20%, although it fell dramatically after that (to well under 5%, some say as low as 1-2%).

This was the reason I was originally swayed to the 360 (i bought it before my PS3), although I am now finding myself using my PS3 a lot more.


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By chick0n on 3/24/09, Rating: 0
By omnicronx on 3/24/2009 4:06:04 PM , Rating: 3
The 360 is in a league of its own that is for sure, but that was not the point of my post. The PS2 definitely had its own share of problems, and yet it turned out to be the best selling console ever. Unfortunately people do forget about the past, and while certain people may not take a chance with the next 360, some people surely will.


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By gss4w on 3/24/2009 9:26:44 PM , Rating: 4
I think the reliability problems with the Xbox 360 probably won't have much impact on sales of whatever the next Xbox is named. After all, people are still buying 360's even though it is well known to have reliability problems. Also Microsoft has handled the faults with the 360 relatively well with extending the warranty, so that will make people who had a 360 go bad be less apprehensive about buying the next console.


By TheDoc9 on 3/25/2009 10:31:57 AM , Rating: 3
It's pretty sad when people are still willing to buy the console when they're aware of such a poorly constructed piece of hardware. It either says a lot about the competition or a lot about the people.


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By BZDTemp on 3/24/2009 5:51:34 PM , Rating: 1
Also pretty important there are still new games coming for the PS2 something which can not be said for the XBOX.

Microsoft could not kill the XBOX fast enough and I am sure the same thing will happen to the 360. Sony in contrast has stated the PS3 is gonna be here for a long time (and it is build to last).


By Hiawa23 on 3/24/2009 6:29:11 PM , Rating: 2
Also pretty important there are still new games coming for the PS2 something which can not be said for the XBOX.

Microsoft could not kill the XBOX fast enough and I am sure the same thing will happen to the 360. Sony in contrast has stated the PS3 is gonna be here for a long time (and it is build to last).


come on, MS had to put the Xbox1 to bed as soon as they could as it wasn't making them money, Nvidia was killing them with each console sold, so I understand why they had to put that to bed, & yeah there are games mostly multiplatform games coming to the PS2, but honestly, the last PS2 I was interested in was GOW2. MS, despite the reliability issues with the 360 is still in a better position than they were with the Xbox, & everytime I hear someone say this so called 10 year lifespan makes no sense to me cause I usually move on when a new console comes, & I don't consider the PS2 having a 10 year lifespan when the little games that do get released are usually crap stuff.


By StevoLincolnite on 3/24/2009 10:34:13 PM , Rating: 3
In 2008, games were still being released for the original Xbox, so really it wasn't killed off that quickly! (Madden 09 comes to mind).

Still it took years after the Sega Dreamcast died and publishers were still releasing games for it.


By FITCamaro on 3/24/2009 4:36:46 PM , Rating: 4
Yeah they should pull out of a market that they are number 2 in hardware sales and winning entirely in terms of software sales and attach rates.

I won't deny the PS3 has a better track record in terms of reliability. But the 360 is a better GAMES CONSOLE. Microsoft got the gaming experience right. Sony killed themselves with a high cost of entry in the beginning and bet on their name recognition to carry them forward.

Even developers are threatening to pull PS3 support due to its poor sales.


By FITCamaro on 3/24/2009 4:38:10 PM , Rating: 3
And as others have said, don't act like Sony's consoles have never had issues. Many early PS2s had issues with the DVD laser. I worked at Best Buy when they released and we were getting back dozens a month.


By Hiawa23 on 3/24/2009 4:53:23 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah they should pull out of a market that they are number 2 in hardware sales and winning entirely in terms of software sales and attach rates.

I won't deny the PS3 has a better track record in terms of reliability. But the 360 is a better GAMES CONSOLE. Microsoft got the gaming experience right. Sony killed themselves with a high cost of entry in the beginning and bet on their name recognition to carry them forward.

Even developers are threatening to pull PS3 support due to its poor sales.


That's what I was trying to say. As far as my tastes go, the 360 is a better games machine especially for online, & I actually like the NXE, so things are by no means rosey for Sony. Like I said I own both consoles & the only thing I grade consoles on are the games, so I am fine with my experience on the 360, but you can't help but to shake your head at MS. Sony all but handed this gen to em with their arrogance.


By bighairycamel on 3/24/2009 5:28:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I won't deny the PS3 has a better track record in terms of reliability. But the 360 is a better GAMES CONSOLE.

I thoroughly enjoy both as far as games. I enjoy the Gears of War and Fable exclusives on 360 and I also love the Metal Gear Solid and Killzone exclusives on PS3 (soon to include God of War, can't wait). They are both equivalent in my eyes as far as a games console goes.

But I will also say that my 360 has about 5 different issues (random freezing/crashing, tray will eject 7 times before it accepts a game, USB controllers aren't recognized, etc.) and unfortunately it is out of warranty for all but the RROD which it has already been returned once for. The PS3 has been flawless. Because of this, I now only buy exclusives for the 360 and all multi-platform games I buy for PS3.


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By Citag on 3/24/09, Rating: 0
By nixoofta on 3/24/2009 8:39:08 PM , Rating: 2
Wow,..how'd you,..unh,...I jus' can't,...geez,...my panties won't stay in a bunch like that.


By OblivionMage on 3/24/2009 5:24:38 PM , Rating: 1
I completely disagree - Microsoft has, in my opinion (of course...), the best console system and network (Xbox-Live) of any console around.

There are hardware issues, but do not attribute that to a low quality product.

quote:
creating a shoddy product and charging hundreds for it


Please research or at least back up your claims. Microsoft lost money on Xbox 360's, and they still might. In no way are they gouging people like Apple did with the iPhone release.


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By pro5 on 3/25/2009 5:19:26 AM , Rating: 4
Get a clue. The Xbox 360 will go down in history as the most technically flawed and poorly engineered console ever.

This would be somewhat forgivable if MS had been more honest about it, instead of making it seem they were doing gamers a favour by 'helping' them 'for free' (with the RROD at least).

They released early to 'beat' Sony, knowing the console would be lucky to last a year, they basically let the gamers absorb the hassle and money loss so they could get one over the competition - but anyone who thinks they 'won' is severely misguided. They won on figures but they lost to gamers who won't be so blind next time they release a console. I don't care who 'wins' ffs, it's just a piece of electronics and I own(ed) one, plus stuff from nintendo and a PS3 (and a PC with MS OS) so I'm not biased. The Xbox360 which I originally LOVED due to games like Dead Rising, Gears and LIVE left me extremely stressed and anxious everytime I went to play a game - until I finally got E74 error - no fix - and MS wanted more cash off me to fix THEIR problem.


By OblivionMage on 3/25/2009 4:49:39 PM , Rating: 2
They extended their warranty - I'm not saying they're perfect, but they did win.

quote:
left me extremely stressed and anxious everytime I went to play a game


I doubt it. (If so, you have a problem (not kidding...))

quote:
I don't care who 'wins' ffs, it's just a piece of electronics and I own(ed) one, plus stuff from nintendo and a PS3 (and a PC with MS OS) so I'm not biased


a. We are all biased, the question to ask is whether or not that bias is reflected in our communicated message.

b. I didn't accuse you of bias, initially, but I will now. You've stated that you own Microsoft products which somehow clears you of bias, yet you go on to contradict that by saying that YOU owned an xbox 360 which was defective.

Sorry, but you've revealed that you have a - considerable - reason to be angry at Microsoft and their Xbox 360 console. So yes, your biased (or, I suppose, your allowing your bias to be reflected in your writings).

quote:
They won on figures but they lost to gamers who won't be so blind next time they release a console


They didn't win on figures, not really.

And yeah, they lost to some customers (including you), but that doesn't mean that they lost any more than any other console has. THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU.

Oh and:

quote:
The Xbox 360 will go down in history as the most technically flawed and poorly engineered console ever.


I lol'd ^_^


By BansheeX on 3/26/2009 1:29:23 PM , Rating: 2
MS could take a dump in your mouth, and you'd still defend them. Shut up already.


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By Sandok on 3/24/2009 5:42:53 PM , Rating: 2
Are you serious? How would that benefit the important people... us, the consumers?

Microsoft doesn't have the most robust console and have lost plenty of money by making this cheap console but the price they paid in repairs was made up EASILY on a few different aspects:

- They were the first to enter the console race and, compared to Sony, are winning the battle with a higher attach rate, more consoles sold, etc.

- Microsoft was able to undercut the PS3 by a significant amount (so much so that Sony had a horrible 2008 fiscal year, especially the games division) and thus, beat the overconfident king of "4D graphics" at their own game. Who benefited... us.

- Customers were outraged but well, when nobody had to pay for getting repairs, most customers didn't care. Opposition customers (ie: people who bought a PS3 or Wii) complain but as long as 360 gamers are happy with their purchase... who cares?

- Finally, they are a software company as you said and thus, have a very simple interface, streamlined system and such. Sure XBL is 50$ a year but then again, Microsoft doesn't charge developers money for using their bandwith does it?

I just think it's quite retarded to say MS should never have joined the console war. Hell, games are what count and I have PLENTY of great games on my Xbox. More so than my PS3 (then again, that 2 year advantage (here in Europe) really did pay off)).


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By Belard on 3/25/2009 10:08:07 AM , Rating: 3
HUH?! Sandok says:
quote:
- They were the first to enter the console race and, compared to Sony, are winning the battle with a higher attach rate, more consoles sold, etc.


MS by-passed QC checks to get the xbox360 to market for the christmas season. Good tactic, but it HURT MS with the 33% failure-rates... and low cost hardware of noisy drives. SONY arrived late, due to blue-ray development being behind... but the PS3 helped SONY win the HD-media format war. So in that regards, Sony is "even" somewhat... check out the Blu-Ray section of a store, its bigger than xbox.

And the "attach" rate of the 360 over the PS3 has always been about the same, a year difference of 7~8million consoles. If SONY was 6 months earlier or the 360 was 6 months later(ever worse), they'd be head to head at best.

But, with the HIGH failure rate of 360s, how many of the 29million user base have bought replacement units or MS has sent out replacement units and counted them as "sales"? MS still counts PCs with XP-installed over vista, a "vista sell". 33% of 24million (before the falcon 360) is a failure of about 8 million units! And we see POSTS from 360 users re-buying a 360s with "HDMI", then with upgraded CPU and GPUs... I wonder how many USED 360s are sitting in stores compared to PS3s. We don't see PS3 owners re-buying their consoles... I've set to see a post "I'm buying a revised PS3" here or anywhere!

quote:
Microsoft was able to undercut the PS3 by a significant amount


MS lowered their prices to compete with the PS3. The 360 premo used to be $400. When the elite came out, it was about $450 originally and the Premo went down to about $350. But in reality, the PS3 was actually cheaper for the consumer in the end... always and still is today.

The $500 20GB PS3 was still full featured. To upgrade the standard Xbox360 ($400 360 +$200 for HD-DVD player, $ 100 for wireless network = $700.) And then add the costs of time and money to call MS, get an RMA - ship the unit or buy an extended warranty and/or cooling system.

The next Xbox should be a better design... but sometimes companies don't learn from their stupidity and greed.

While MS has created a different sort of competition for the consoles... it means SONY and Nintendo have to keep on their toes more. ;)


By omnicronx on 3/25/2009 11:49:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
And the "attach" rate of the 360 over the PS3 has always been about the same, a year difference of 7~8million consoles. If SONY was 6 months earlier or the 360 was 6 months later(ever worse), they'd be head to head at best.
These variables are already taken into account, which is why when you look around the net you will see a high number for the 360 and a lower number. The higher number is from release, the lower number is compared to the wii/ps3 release date i.e 1 year less sales. Both numbers are higher than the PS3 by a fair margin. Furthermore the difference in consoles sold has absolutely nothing to do with attach rate, it is calculated based on ratios. (i.e total software sales / consoles sold).

They are not head to head, in fact the PS3 is at the bottom of the rankings by a fair margin.
quote:
But, with the HIGH failure rate of 360s, how many of the 29million user base have bought replacement units or MS has sent out replacement units and counted them as "sales"?
Nope they are not counted, the estimated stats you see on sites like VGTchartz etc are based on retail sales. These are not MS released stats.
quote:
But in reality, the PS3 was actually cheaper for the consumer in the end... always and still is today.
In whose reality, yours? Not everyone is going to get wireless, an HD, or an HD-DVD player. In 'reality' the 360 is cheaper by a fair margin the PS3, accessories are irrelevant when it comes to the bottom line. When it comes down to it you can walk out of a store with a working 360 for 200 dollars, its up to the buyer whether or not they want to invest in other upgrades, but in no way or form can you say that everyone is going to do so, or that everyone is looking for features such as BD playback or wireless. Most people buy a console to play games, you (and Sony) seem to be forgetting this.

Most people don't need wireless or a BD player to do this, an HD perhaps, but you can get a referb online for under 50 bucks. Don't get me wrong, I own a PS3, but I am not going to try and justify my purchase by saying its 'cheaper' than the 360. It just happened to fit my needs, that why I bought it.


By nmyron on 3/25/2009 1:58:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In whose reality, yours? Not everyone is going to get wireless, an HD, or an HD-DVD player. In 'reality' the 360 is cheaper by a fair margin the PS3, accessories are irrelevant when it comes to the bottom line. When it comes down to it you can walk out of a store with a working 360 for 200 dollars, its up to the buyer whether or not they want to invest in other upgrades, but in no way or form can you say that everyone is going to do so, or that everyone is looking for features such as BD playback or wireless. Most people buy a console to play games, you (and Sony) seem to be forgetting this.


How many XBOX users don't play online games... I would have to estimate that this is a very, very low percentage, as online gaming is quite the reason that people purchase consoles these days, that, and the quality of games, and etc, etc... The fact of the matter is, the PS3 is more feature rich out of the box, meaning the average consumer can purchase one item, and get every possible interesting feature they may need for a console.

quote:
Most people don't need wireless or a BD player to do this, an HD perhaps, but you can get a referb online for under 50 bucks. Don't get me wrong, I own a PS3, but I am not going to try and justify my purchase by saying its 'cheaper' than the 360. It just happened to fit my needs, that why I bought it.


You talk about getting a refurb drive online for 50 bucks, thats cool, what is it, a 120 GB these days? I just slapped a 500 GB WD Notebook HDD from NewEgg into my PS3 for 99.99... Not to mention that I bought this console as a factory refurb in 2007, it's a 60GB.

So all in all, I bought the console for $350, the HDD for $100, so I spent $450 + tax, and got a premium game system, with BluRay player, media streaming abilities, Wireless internet, and a 500GB storage capacity. Being as that most users purchase their XBOX's, then option them up, the PS3 is definately a better deal. As far as HD video goes, I hope you didn't buy the HD-DVD player... I can't even find HD-DVD's on the shelves anymore... But I have quite a collection of BluRays, and didn't have to go out and shell an additional $500-$700 for a new BluRay player ;)


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By Sandok on 3/25/2009 11:50:55 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft did rush the Xbox360 to the market, I totally agree but when it comes to being a GAME CONSOLE (which is what we're talking about here), it helped them edge out Sony.

Yes, IF Sony had launched their console before it might be the 360 in third place but guess what, they didn't. Microsoft weighed the pros and cons of shipping the console early and it helped them secure a better market position than Sony. IFs and BUTs don't help the actual subject and this is what I am talking about, given that they were the FIRST to enter the race, they were able to beat Sony at their own game.

And since we're talking SKUs (HDMI and whatnot), how many PS3 people post (yes they do... browse around) about buying a 80GB or a 60GB or a 40GB and trading in various different forms of the console to have REAL backwards compatibility or emulated backwards compatibilty or... none at all. Anyways, this is a tiny fraction of the market and I doubt its as big as you make it out to be.

And no, the PS3 is not cheaper and never was cheaper and never will be cheaper. Who says you NEED to buy the HDVD addon, the WiFi addon, the Cam addon, the HDD addon, the Remote addon, etc. If you want to play games, then the cheapest in between the PS3 and 360, out of the box was the 360 and always has been.

Yes, some people might want BR and such and if they did, they would buy a PS3 but those who didn't... the vaste majority... just wanted to play games. Yes it's loud, yes it's fragile and yes the hardware isn't halfway decent but what do you care more about, playing games or justifying your choice of console?

I'm not saying the PS3 is a bad console, far from it, but the Xbox is by NO WAY a bad system to play games on. Quite the opposite, otherwise millions of people wouldn't buy the system. Simple as that.


By BansheeX on 3/26/2009 1:36:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And no, the PS3 is not cheaper and never was cheaper and never will be cheaper. Who says you NEED to buy the HDVD addon, the WiFi addon, the Cam addon, the HDD addon, the Remote addon, etc. If you want to play games


HDD is indeed REQUIRED to play DLC content and download tons of patches. And you forgot to mention netplay fees, which are indeed REQUIRED if you want to play games' online modes. 5 years of Live is $250, so your total cost going to be higher than the PS3 even with the Arcade model, no hard drive, no wireless, and no blu-ray. Shelf price means nothing, cost of ownership means everything, and the PS3 is simply cheaper.


By FaceMaster on 3/25/2009 6:13:54 AM , Rating: 2
Sony isn't primarily a games console manufacturer, either.

To make a console you need to be a very large and established business. In my opinion, Microsoft's Xbox360 has been a great success. The only fault I can find with it is the RROD.

If Microsoft is ripping the customers off so much, then how come there are so many Xbox360's around?


By m0mentary on 3/25/2009 9:47:01 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
This is why Microsoft needs to get out off the Console business...If any other companies have created as faulty a hardware as MS has, they would of gone out of business by now.


don't worry, the market will correct itself ;)


By Sandok on 3/25/2009 11:52:03 AM , Rating: 2
... well IF the market will be correcting itself, it's taking an awful long time.

Or does that mean it ain't correcting itself?


By Screwballl on 3/25/2009 9:59:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is why Microsoft needs to get out off the Console business.


Agreed.

Look throughout history of consoles sold and NONE of them ever had this serious of a failure rate. I still see some original 8 bit NES consoles still working just as well as they did when they were new, same for Sega Master System, Genesis (and the add-ons), SNES, N64, Dreamcast, Saturn, PS1, PS2, Ataris, Commodore64 and so on...

Microsoft brought their outlook of software (replace every few years) to the hardware front and think that people would be willing to replace it just as they do Windows... only now they realize they are seriously wrong.


By vistaisfine on 3/28/2009 2:09:15 AM , Rating: 2
i dont agree with your assesment. if that was true then we would be looking at xbox 720's on shelves right now. don't get me wrong im not defending the faulty hardware. it is what it is.


"I f***ing cannot play Halo 2 multiplayer. I cannot do it." -- Bungie Technical Lead Chris Butcher

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