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A screenshot of the greatly revamped Windows 7 desktop, the exciting first glimpse of the new OS in the wild.  (Source: Microsoft)

The start menu looks familiar, but it has some changes, including a section for frequently accessed folders.  (Source: Microsoft)

Hovering over a taskbar item now generates snappy previews.  (Source: Microsoft)
Getting behind the wheel of Windows 7 reveals many changes, some minor, others larger

Microsoft has been very secretive about Windows 7.  While it has let leak scant details about how touch functionality will play a critical role in the new OS, more information on how the new OS ticks, and its general feel have been scarce.  The Windows team has been using a blog to let out information on the new product, but the stream has been more like a slow trickle, with few concrete explanations of features.

Curiosity about the new OS is unprecedented as many people view the new OS as Microsoft's attempt to atone for the shortcomings of Vista.  While Vista was a solid OS with many new features and improvements, it failed to surpass the growth of the wildly popular Windows XP and also fell short in business adoption.  Analysts blamed a variety of causes from poor support from hardware partners to factually ambiguous attack ads by Apple.

Regardless, the critical nature of the release to Microsoft cannot be overemphasized.

Now for the first time, a large list of features from Windows 7 has seen the light of day, following the leak of some features a couple days ago.  The biggest new feature is the taskbar overhaul.  The new taskbar looks foreign indeed with no text.  It is filled with icons for easy program selection.  Also new to the taskbar is the option to access "jump lists" with a quick right click.  For example, right-clicking the Windows Media Player icon allows you to access playlists without having to open the application or waste time fiddling with menus.  Finally, hovering over items on the taskbar generates helpful previews.

When you click the desktop, all windows go transparent offering you a free view.  This is helpful to glance at gadgets, which have been moved from Vista's sidebar to a fixture on the desktop.  This will be helpful to laptops which have lower screen resolutions and can less afford to waste valuable screen space on a separate sidebar.

There's also a really intuitive new window scaling gimmick that you'd think would be the kind of thing that a certain smarmy Cupertino-competitor might cook up.   The cool new feature expands windows which you drag up to the top of the screen, and shrinks them as you drag them down the screen.  And if you want to tile multiple windows, drag them to the corner of the screen to shrink them to 50 percent, allowing easy 4x4 tiling.  The feature is really neat for its seeming simplicity.

The system tray now only displays the items you select, and it’s been streamlined to be easier and more straightforward to configure.  User Account Control, a bane of some less-experienced Vista users who were baffled by its pop ups, reappears in Windows 7, but has been streamlined and fine-tuned.  This allows the user to specify by application the level of access, while offering less disruptive annoyance.

Multi-touch features were demoed on a HP TouchSmart PC in a bit more detail.  The start menu expands to a large size when you're touching the screen.  You can automatically scroll inside any window using your fingers.  A large onscreen predictive keyboard is another easily accessible touch feature.

Multiple-monitor management has also been streamlined.  Projector setup is now a hotkey-press away.  Media Center has adopted a Zune-like look.  It displays a new album art screensaver when you're listening to tunes.

As to those hoping for a lighter build, it looks like your dreams may come true.  Windows 7 Chief Steve Sinofsky held up his "personal" laptop during the demo.  It was running Windows 7 flawlessly on a 1 GHz processor netbook (probably using a VIA processor) with only 1 GB of RAM.  It was running very smoothly, with over half the RAM free to use.

However, Microsoft is equally emphasizing power, with support for up to 256 CPUs.

For developers, the big news is the pre-release of the Windows 7 in the form of a API-complete pre-beta, offered to the lucky few.  This should help out-the-gate hardware support to be improved from Vista's debut, a major priority for Microsoft.

In all, there's too much to sum up in fine detail, but suffice it to say Windows 7 is shaping up to look very good.  Where Vista was, in opinion of some, bloated, Windows 7 offers a light frame scalable to high levels of performance.  And for the daily user, as the popularity of the iPhone showed, the sharp looking and greatly overhauled user interface may be the killer app which makes Windows 7 a consumer hit and a must-have upgrade when its released in late 2009 or early 2010.



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Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Beavermatic on 10/28/2008 5:00:11 PM , Rating: 2
...on a clean cut taskbar.

oh yeah.




RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Spuke on 10/28/2008 5:25:03 PM , Rating: 5
If 7 really turns out to be THAT much less resource intensive, then that's friggin awesome and worth the upgrade (if you're upgrading).


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By 9nails on 10/28/2008 8:26:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If 7 really turns out to be THAT much less resource intensive, then that's friggin awesome and worth the upgrade (if you're upgrading).


If you're upgrading indeed. But Vista Ultimate 64 with Aero runs creamy smooth on my < 1 year old E6850 with 2 Gigs RAM.

I'll still be looking for that next OS feature which really sells 7. I know it's early, but I can't put a finger on what it might be. It's funny, because at a time when we have great application compatibility and stability inside of Windows XP, they're talking about dumping bloat and bundled features such as Windows Mail and Movie Maker in Windows 7.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Samus on 10/28/08, Rating: -1
RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By inighthawki on 10/28/2008 9:07:15 PM , Rating: 2
Really that was completely uncalled for. Have you USED vista anytime after the first week of its release? The os is extremely solid, runs very smoothly even on my x2 4400 and 2GB of decent speed ram. If you have any issues running vista, then your computer is probably really freakin old, or you just have REALLY bad luck with your choice of hardware.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Makaveli on 10/28/2008 9:45:38 PM , Rating: 5
Why don't you noobs learn to take off indexing. And put your Swap file on a different hard drive, and for the love of god by some fricken more memory its cheap!

Hard drive thrashing is miminal on my system.

/Rant over


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By KernD on 10/28/2008 10:40:51 PM , Rating: 1
Well that's funny because it runs really smooth on my PC, quad-core, 4 GB Ram and 64 bit version... just like the one you mentioned.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By KernD on 10/28/08, Rating: 0
RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By rdeegvainl on 10/28/2008 10:44:27 PM , Rating: 3
because you replied to a -1 post. best to just let em die.


By Mojo the Monkey on 11/3/2008 6:39:52 PM , Rating: 2
I down-ranked a post in Reno... just to watch it die.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By inighthawki on 10/28/2008 10:44:37 PM , Rating: 2
If im not mistaken, don't posts get a lower rating when responding to low rated posts?


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By althaz on 10/29/2008 1:51:28 AM , Rating: 3
As it does on my machine (OC'ed E6300 @ 3.29Ghz Core 2, 2Gb). Vista runs in fact a hell of a lot faster than Windows XP ever did. People who have actually used it would already know this :).

One thing I noted immediately from the screenshots was the lack of the "Up" button, the lack of which is my primary annoyance when it comes to Windows Vista.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By mircea on 10/29/2008 2:46:49 AM , Rating: 3
Why do you need an UP button when backspace will do the same thing, or just clicking on the address bar on the up folder or even closer to the root directly to the folder you want it's faster?


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By av911 on 10/29/2008 3:11:52 AM , Rating: 2
The "UP" button goes up one folder, from the current folder you are in. IE, from C:\Program Files back to C:\.

The "BACK" button goes back to the previous folder you were in. IE, from "My Documents" back to D:\.


By piroroadkill on 10/29/2008 5:29:47 AM , Rating: 2
The breadcrumb bar is way better than the up button


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By JonnyBlaze on 10/29/2008 10:51:51 PM , Rating: 2
ctrl-up does what you want.

not as convenient but it works. i wish explorer was customizable. i like copy, paste & cut up there when im lazy.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By timmiser on 11/3/2008 8:09:33 PM , Rating: 2
I concur... I miss the cut, copy, paste buttons too.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By bodar on 10/29/2008 5:32:14 AM , Rating: 4
Not sure if you're aware but in Vista, you don't need an Up button, because the entire path in the address bar is interactive. It's called the Breadcrumbs bar.

http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow_viewer/0,1205,l=&a=...

I love it actually, and I installed a third-party program that replicates it for XP on my work PC. It's not as elegant as the Vista version (there are occasional font issues) but it gets the job done. Can't remember its name offhand.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Aloonatic on 10/29/2008 6:26:30 AM , Rating: 2
Directory Opus may eb the program that you are thinking of and it is the program I prefer to use (in XP) for many reasons as I find it much more useful than the native file explorer.

One reason is that it has the breadcrumbs bar, which is used in Vista.

It is a good example of how, at first, it appears that Vista is just a pain to use but once you give it a chance and learn what it can actually achieve it is really very very useful.

Some of the other great benefits of Directory Opus (whilst I'm at it, not meaning to advertise) are:

You can have 2 file explorer window panes open in the same window (like the old old old file manager I seem to recall from much earlier versions of windows) which can be arranged/tiled horizontally or vertically, and these can have tabs too.

You can skip files that cannot be copied/moved/are corrupted (very useful when trying to get stuff off of CDs/DVDs which I do a lot of here) without having to cancel the whole job. Vista does this.

The transfer speed/progress of the whole transfer job is displayed. Vista does this too, but not in quite as much detail as Directory Opus.

It is a pretty useful program and there are lots and lots of useful features but these are just a few that I find most handy, day to day.

/sidetracked comment/advertisement


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By VaultDweller on 10/29/2008 8:05:32 AM , Rating: 4
Would it be too much to ask for both the breadcrumbs bar and an Up button? Would that single button take up so much screen real estate that it would break the Explorer interface?

Anyway, I like the breadcrumbs bar at times, but other times I find it very annoying. It's pretty much non-functional when the current directory has a very long name - the takes up the entire bar, and so there are no higher level directories displayed to click on.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Gondorff on 10/29/2008 9:23:49 PM , Rating: 2
In the situation of current directories with long names, you can always click the button just to the left of the path that shows all the higher directories. So that's only one more click (assuming that the back button is not appropriate in this situation), and only for situations that should be rather rare--if this happens to you so often to warrant complaint, I would recommend more concise folder names.

Moreover, a clean interface is very important for Windows, since looks sell. Adding a button with almost entirely redundant functionality is a poor design choice. Ideally, they would offer the option to put in such extra menu items, but realistically, aren't there bigger fish to fry?


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By VaultDweller on 10/30/2008 9:24:07 AM , Rating: 2
Rare? I have thousands of such folders. Tens of thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands) if data that has been moved onto archival media is included. Who are you to tell me how do to directory management? The directory names cannot be abbreviated and still contain the information that they need.

The software is supposed to bend to accommodate the user, the user is not supposed to bend to accommodate the software design.

And yes, there are bigger fish to fry. It hasn't stopped me from switching to Vista, and I had already started using Directory Opus as my file manager long before I ever tried Vista.

That said, the 'bigger fish to fry' argument is a pet peeve of mine. Do you ignore people who commit assault because murderers also exist, and their crimes are more important? In most cases, I think a more sound description of these small fish is "low hanging fruit." You take care of them first, because they're right they're and incredibly easy to handle.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By killerb255 on 10/30/2008 11:37:03 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, it's a bit of both.

Software =/= psychic. Therefore, the software is not supposed to 100% bend toward the will of the user.

If you want that, write your own software.

In all fairness, Windows tries to be "one-size-fits-all," but it's really a "jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none."

...and "bigger fish to fry" is a valid argument, as long as you don't look at everything as black and white.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Nehemoth on 10/29/2008 8:27:55 AM , Rating: 1
Yes, bring back my UP button.


By PerfectAgent007 on 11/5/2008 4:46:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But Vista Ultimate 64 with Aero runs creamy smooth on my < 1 year old E6850 with 2 Gigs RAM.


quote:
Well that's funny because it runs really smooth on my PC, quad-core, 4 GB Ram and 64 bit version... just like the one you mentioned.


I think the point that's being lost here is that Vista runs smooth if you provide it with enough power. An E6850 is the best 65nm chip that Intel has to offer. And while 2 gigs of RAM is the norm for today, which would you rather have those 2 gigs working for: your applications or just running your operating system? Yes memory is cheap and with the 45nm process CPUs are going down to record lows, but the fact of the matter is that when it comes to system resource utilization Vista uses much more than most of us are comfortable with. I acknowledge that more features and functions requires more power, but Vista has so many functions, a lot of which are just for show, that it reaches the point where it hinders task completion speed. Everyone knows that this is essential in the corporate world, which is why Vista has failed to integrate itself into this setting.

Windows 7 runs on a 1GHz VIA with 1GB of RAM with plenty of stuff to spare according to Sinofsky; something I haven't seen since Win2k on my old Dell Inspiron 8200 with a P4 at 1.6GHz. This just emphasizes how inefficient Vista is for an operating system, especially on laptops. Let's face it, when it comes to laptops the price always goes up if you want something with a little extra juice, and since Vista requires so much of it, you need a powerhouse just to keep things running smooth. For us college students this is extremely important because we're always short on cash and can't afford to get the mean machines needed to run Vista smoothly.

Sorry Microsoft, Vista just doesn't cut it for a lot of people. But maybe you'll turn that around with Windows 7.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By PrezWeezy on 10/29/2008 2:05:38 PM , Rating: 2
chkdsk /r

I have an Athalon 3800 x2 with 1 gig of RAM running Vista Ultimate x64. I hated that machine since I built the thing and the disk light was constantly on. I finaly decided I was going to either fix it or toss it. I booted from the Vista cd and did a chkdsk /r. The thing runs perfect now. And like I said, I have 1 gig of RAM. It's not even very fast DDR. And my install was 4.6 gigs, not 10. Also upgrading to a reasonable video card was a good investment ($50). It's not always Vista.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By ShaolinSoccer on 10/28/2008 9:53:10 PM , Rating: 2
"I'll still be looking for that next OS feature which really sells 7"

What about just the touch feature? I think it would be extremely cool to have a coffee table in the living room that doubles as a touch screen PC that does everything you would want it to do. Or better yet, being able to sit on the couch with a touch tablet and use your big screen TV for all your PC needs. The tablet can also contain a screen so you can see the same image on it as on the TV. Would be something good for smart houses. Controlling all devices in the house. If you're worried about security, you can have 2 PC's. One for the internet and messing around. The other for controlling the house and entertainment.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By kelmon on 10/29/2008 3:33:16 AM , Rating: 2
I'm inclined to suggest that this sort of thing already exists today but that it's practical application for computing is very limited. What you are effectively looking at is a kiosk/media management system rather than something you'd use for day-to-day computing tasks. It will certainly have its applications but helping me to do my work won't be one of them, mostly because my hands should be horizontal for interaction (i.e. typing, moving a mouse, etc) whereas my neck and eyes want to look at something vertical. Given this I don't even see that much of an application for the technology in tablet PCs.

Still, if the software supports the technology, perhaps a hardware manufacturer will come with a use for it that will prove me wrong and that I'd really like to see.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Chadder007 on 10/28/2008 11:24:22 PM , Rating: 2
....or did they just turn off SuperFetch just to show how low the RAM usage could be?
That is actually something good about Vista is that it uses your resources of RAM to preload anything that you usually use, and will instantly clear RAM for anything else that may need it.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By afkrotch on 10/29/2008 3:42:17 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
If 7 really turns out to be THAT much less resource intensive, then that's friggin awesome and worth the upgrade (if you're upgrading).


It'll probably be the same crap looking Vista with no Aero running. Maybe even have the themes service turned off.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By DeepBlue1975 on 10/29/2008 7:58:07 AM , Rating: 2
Agree.

PS: I'm running vista x64 ultimate... Tried it with 2gbs, 6gbs and 4gbs of ram, respectively...

And guess what? Normal usage speed was (aka: felt) the same. In fact I couldn't justify letting 6gbs installed and I only have 4 now, because even on my heaviest multitasking scenarios (40 tabs on firefox, video conversions and rar extractions running on background, tv synth app running and so on) I couldn't feel any difference.

But from 2 to 4gbs, I noticed improvement when multitasking (not huge, but noticeable).

BTW, I deactivated superfetch from all possible places, don't care about an app taking 3 seconds less to open, as long as it runs well when it is already open.

With this simple measure, no more disk trashing at startup, I only let it prefetch boot level staff and works like a charm for me.


By Choppedliver on 11/7/2008 11:13:08 AM , Rating: 2
Im so happy that you and many other people can run Vista purrrfectly on your hardware.

Just think how much nicer Win7 will run on your hardware with a much more efficient OS! I swear people act like Win7 running more efficent is a bad thing. And why do people feel the need to defend Vista so vehemently. The public backlash has been severe. I guess they are ALL wrong ( sarcasm ). Vista is bloated and inefficient. Yes you can run Vista just fine on a variety of hardware, but not everyone has the same definition of what is acceptable. I can also make a 3 ton car go fast if I have a powerful enough engine, but those who don't have a big engine are left putting along.

For once, you will be able to "upgrade" and expect more than just new features: Better performance and more efficent use of resources. If you have a fast computer, it will be even more so. If you have a slow computer, it will be less slow.

...and those without the super duper hardware will have a compelling reason to upgrade from XP finally.

Microsoft is building what the market demanded, and that's how you stay in business.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By DeepThought86 on 10/28/2008 5:30:32 PM , Rating: 2
I stil run me Start menu the way Win 200 had it. Much cleaner adn easier to use. I can't fathom why them keep sticking more abstract garbage in there. Plus it often freezes for a few seconds if there more than a few dozen entries. Amazing how the basics are ignred for years.

And when will they fix right-click taking forever to popup a menu in Windows Explorer


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 5:56:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
when will they fix right-click taking forever to popup a menu in Windows Explorer
Not sooner than non-resizable horizontally command prompt window and ugly flickering/Z order mess up after pressing Win-D twice (so probably not in our lifetime anyway :))


By Hoser McMoose on 10/31/2008 6:27:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Not sooner than non-resizable horizontally command prompt window

Command prompt window can be resized horizontally (in Vista at least, I don't have a copy of XP handy), just not in the most obvious/easy way.

Right click on the taskbar of the command prompt, select properties. From the Layout tab you can change the window width, though the width can be no wider than the Frame Buffer width. You can also change the default settings that this starts up as.

It certainly would be a whole lot easier to just drag the size of the window larger/smaller as needed, but at least it CAN be done.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By MrDiSante on 10/28/08, Rating: 0
RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 8:45:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Keep the shortcuts and running programs separate in the taskbar.
Like to waste your screen space? If MS adopts OS X dock that'll save us some screen real estate.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By inighthawki on 10/28/2008 9:20:34 PM , Rating: 5
Not to start a war, as stated below, but some people like myself do not like OSX's dock bar. I like to use my taskbar as a way to see every open window on the screen, and to be able to switch between them by seeing which is which. Icons don't always tell you exactly what that window is.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 9:40:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I like to use my taskbar as a way to see every open window on the screen, and to be able to switch between them by seeing which is which. Icons don't always tell you exactly what that window is
Nothing prevents MS from extending OS X dock clone with optional live window previews/thumbnails like those on a Vista taskbar. This way you get best from both worlds.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 9:59:59 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Nothing prevents MS from extending OS X dock clone with optional live window previews/thumbnails like those on a Vista taskbar
I must admit MS is reading my mind: http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/win7_preview_02.a...

Good job cloning major OS X user interface features. MS is learning quickly. Steve Jobs is bound to have hard time when Win 7 is released. I wonder how hysterical he gets at the next year's WWDC, hehehe :) I remember his cries at the pre-Vista-release WWDC, and I'm going to enjoy his next hysterical performance again next year


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By kelmon on 10/29/2008 3:47:05 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Good job cloning major OS X user interface features. MS is learning quickly. Steve Jobs is bound to have hard time when Win 7 is released. I wonder how hysterical he gets at the next year's WWDC, hehehe :) I remember his cries at the pre-Vista-release WWDC, and I'm going to enjoy his next hysterical performance again next year


With respect, I'm not seeing anything here that is going to give Apple much cause for concern. Windows 7 very much sounds like a release that will appeal to existing Windows users and should reduce the number of defections. Certainly I can't see anything here that would encourage an existing Mac user to switch to Windows.

It should also be noted that Steve Jobs never gets "hysterical" or "cries" during a presentation (no idea what he does off-stage, mind). The worst I remember is throwing a digital camera back to an engineer when it failed to work in a demo many years ago. Perhaps they'll bring Bertrand Serlet back again to show how poor Windows 7 is using only mime...


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Pirks on 10/29/2008 3:44:07 PM , Rating: 2
I recall Jobs looking pretty nervous when he and Serlet were badmouthing upcoming Vista release at WWDC 2006, just because they though it looked like OS X. So now by logic Jobs and Serlet must be much more nervous and badmouth MS way way more, 'cause Win 7 looks closer to OS X now than Vista ever was


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By kelmon on 10/30/2008 9:46:53 AM , Rating: 2
I don't recall either of them looking nervous since it gave them plenty of ammunition. Remember, that was the event where they deployed banners proclaiming that it was time for "Redmond, Start Your Photocopiers!" Mind you, Serlet was hardly the comic genius and I dread every time he appears on-stage.

Theoretically, Windows looking more like OS X makes it harder for Apple to differentiate themselves but in reality they seem to enjoy it making fun of Microsoft for it. Imitation is the highest form of flattery, as it is said.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By afkrotch on 10/29/2008 5:22:43 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Good job cloning major OS X user interface features.


Just like how OSX user interface features were also cloned from Vista.

Microsoft showed off "Longhorn" and many of it's features. They showed up in OSX months later, while Longhorn had to be rebuilt as their old methods didn't work and years later, we got Vista.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By kelmon on 10/29/2008 5:30:17 AM , Rating: 2
Just a question, but how do you know that Apple wasn't working on these before Microsoft demonstrated them?

The suggestion that Company X copied Company Y when there is no evidence to support this is a bit of a nonsense. The only time that I think you can definitively say that Apple copied Microsoft (that I can remember) was the introduction of Fast User Switching in OS X 10.3 when Microsoft was credited with implementing that feature first during its presentation. Apple may have copied many things from Microsoft and vice verse, but since there is no evidence to support this the discussion is rather pointless and childish. Rather, what is important is delivery to market and an implementation that works.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By omnicronx on 10/29/2008 9:19:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Good job cloning major OS X user interface features. MS is learning quickly.
I love how people think that this was an OSX invention. You could do this in nix long before Apple even thought of the idea. Hardly any of Apples ideas are original, which should be pretty obvious as they have a track record of making good ideas great.

All in all these screens look great. If the speeds are what MS is claiming, Windows 7 is bound to be a great OS. I still just can't stand the lackluster windows mixer in XP that essentially converts everything to 16 bit when I have a very expensive sound system. With the under the hood changes of Vista combined with the aesthetics of 7, I think we are in for a great surprise.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By twhittet on 10/28/2008 10:29:24 PM , Rating: 2
I don't want to knock it too much until I try it, but it sounds like a terrible idea for the way I work. I too use my taskbar to keep track of and quickly switch between many windows of the same program (I don't group similar apps). Three remote desktops, two Access, two speadsheets, a few e-mail replies, a few MSN windows, and maybe a few word docs - once I get over 20 windows THEN i start to get confused. Replace those with simple Icons, and I have no idea how i would find anything. I don't want to scan my mouse over every window to "preview" every app to pick the right one.

I can't imagine that many other people would like it either, but then again I'm not a 100% believer of "less is always better". It's a long ways off though, hopefully someone smarter than me figures out the best way.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By twjr on 10/29/2008 12:27:03 AM , Rating: 2
+1 This is the exact reason why I can't stand OSX. How are you supposed to know what is open and how do you tell between different icons from the same program? If I want to have a dock I would buy a Mac with OSX. Hopefully the include the ability to make it look like Windows Classic or Vista at the very least or else I will just stick with Vista.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By kelmon on 10/29/2008 3:58:49 AM , Rating: 2
The Dock shows an indicator below each running application. Prior to 10.5 this indicator was a black arrow head but 10.5 replaced it with a sort of glowing dot. As yet, however, the Dock does not provide a means of seeing which documents are open in a document-based application without right-clicking on the application's icon. The Vista-style preview when hovering over the icon would be a nice addition to OS X, although Apple purists will no doubt say that Exposé does the job that is necessary.

To be fair, the Dock is usually excellent and I honestly believe that Windows would be improved by adopting some of its concepts. The Quick Launch bar delivers some of these concepts but you then end up sharing the space between the Quick Launch Bar and Task Bar, and that's quite wasteful. Combine the 2 and you have a Dock.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By ggordonliddy on 10/28/2008 10:17:24 PM , Rating: 1
It is not a waste of space. It's called being productive instead of getting high and staring at your ugly Aero desktop.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 10:32:14 PM , Rating: 2
Too late, my friend, MS is not listening to you anymore. OS X Dock clone in Win 7 is now official.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By rdeegvainl on 10/28/2008 10:32:07 PM , Rating: 2
if you want it, http://www.rocketdock.com/ no need for microsoft.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Griffinhart on 10/29/2008 12:20:17 PM , Rating: 2
I watched the demo of the new taskbar from PDC last night. This rocketboom thing has some similar features but is still different.

Both let you "dock" shortcuts and running applications, but the taskbar won't have that scrolling animation that also enlarges the icons. That would actually annoy me anyway. The taskbar also "previews" groups of applications differently as well. Hover over the IE icon on the taskbar and thumbnails of all running IE windows will pop up. Hover the cursur over a thumbnail and the full window will temporarily pop up. It seems pretty interesting over all.

I think it would take me a bit to get used to but it has potential.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By ceefka on 10/29/2008 4:38:21 PM , Rating: 2
Don't you know how to hide the taskbar? Speaking of which, what is that thingy in OSX doing in the upper part of my screen saying what app I'm looking at, what date and time it is, what audio driver is on, what the F... OSX isn't any better in that respect. The OSX dock is highly overrated IMHO.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By MrPoletski on 10/28/2008 8:58:05 PM , Rating: 2
Did you want to start another Mac vs MS war or what?

Coz that post of yers is like a firecracker in both teams ammo depot..


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By MrDiSante on 10/29/2008 11:01:08 AM , Rating: 2
Nope, however I was hoping that MS would get the tongue-thrashing it deserves for ruining the best window management I've seen to date, which says a lot about the level of innovation in that area given that it was introduced in '95.

Instead (as you predicted) I got a Mac vs MS war and (as I should have predicted) people interpreting "Not Worth Reading" as "I Disagree" on my comment rating.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By inighthawki on 10/29/2008 11:07:02 AM , Rating: 2
It doesnt seem like a war at all to me. Just people accurately stating why they do/don't like the feature and somewhat mature responses imo.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By GoodBytes on 10/28/2008 8:17:55 PM , Rating: 2
This doesn't make sense. I am sure that this is just a new Quick Launch bar of some sort. Or a mode that makes it that way for touch screen based system. Or a mode to ease the switch from Mac users to Windows.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 9:20:59 PM , Rating: 1
Or in the opposite direction ;-)


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By omnicronx on 10/29/2008 9:11:12 AM , Rating: 2
By your logic, you must still be using Windows 95.

Sometimes I wonder if it even matters what Microsoft releases, as there will always be people like you that just plain don't like change.

If you don't like what they have to offer, then don't buy it.
But don't come in here with your smug remarks, because most people just don't want to hear it.


RE: Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By blaktron on 10/29/2008 4:57:41 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, thats not true. I love the smug remarks, they make me feel oh so superior. Plus these thieving remarks are not intelligent at all, as "microsoft" or "apple" have never invented anything, engineers working for those companies have. And because these are people, theres no way to say that they havent duplicated their efforts. Its quite possible that both camps start working on a project at the same time, and whoever announces it first is credited with creating it, but thats not how it works. Could just as easily be that they are simply stealing ideas from blogs like this at the same time. Remember, ideas, like MP3's, cannot be stolen, they can merely be copied.


Windows 7 = reduced productivity.
By ggordonliddy on 10/28/2008 10:20:48 PM , Rating: 2
Great... just when you thought it couldn't get worse than Vista. So now when I have 5 Word documents open, it will be impossible to tell which taskbar button is for which at a glance. Why does Microsoft insist on reducing productivity? There is ZERO point in removing the text from the taskbar buttons, unless people no longer can read and can only wrap their mind around glossy icons. This truly makes me sick.




RE: Windows 7 = reduced productivity.
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 10:47:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
when I have 5 Word documents open, it will be impossible to tell which taskbar button is for which at a glance
Windows's shell groups those 5 Word windows under one taskbar button anyway, so where's the difference? You had one taskbar button with windows grouped under it, and you will have exactly the same button with grouped windows in Win 7. No reason to panic, right?


RE: Windows 7 = reduced productivity.
By Scrogneugneu on 10/28/2008 11:44:20 PM , Rating: 2
It doesn't, not on my XP. I disabled that feature. I simply hate it.

Looks like on Win7 I'm gonna be stuck with it. It's not that I want to bash or anything, it's just a "feature" that I seem to be losing.


By Hoser McMoose on 10/31/2008 6:43:51 AM , Rating: 2
Just disable the feature in Windows 7 too if you don't like it. That's one of the nice things about Windows, you can disable pretty much any feature you don't like and go back to the 'old' way of doing things. If you really feel like it you can make Vista look pretty much exactly like Win2K and I suspect the same will be true with Windows 7.

Obviously if you're going to disable the feature anyway though, it doesn't exactly make it a selling feature of the OS.


By ggordonliddy on 10/29/2008 1:28:23 AM , Rating: 2
No, I'm not dumb enough to group all of a program's windows into one taskbar button, which requires extra steps to switch to any of those windows. With a 24" monitor and a double-height taskbar, there is no need to group buttons together.


RE: Windows 7 = reduced productivity.
By mikefarinha on 10/28/2008 10:53:55 PM , Rating: 2
Wait until you see the demo... you will be so shocked on how the new task bar works!

Check out this video
http://wm.istreamplanet.com/customers/ms/750_ms_pd...


RE: Windows 7 = reduced productivity.
By mikefarinha on 10/28/2008 11:00:03 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Windows 7 = reduced productivity.
By ggordonliddy on 10/29/2008 1:39:03 AM , Rating: 2
Wow. Now it's impossible to tell at a glance whether a program is actually running or if it's just the quick-launch icon for the program. Are they huffing paint thinner non-stop?


RE: Windows 7 = reduced productivity.
By mikefarinha on 10/29/2008 9:12:35 AM , Rating: 2
If an app is running there will be a glass border and sheen. It is subtle yet obvious... if that makes sense?


RE: Windows 7 = reduced productivity.
By ggordonliddy on 10/29/2008 7:38:08 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, it is so subtle that there might as well not be a difference. If you have to really pay that close attention, it is BAD DESIGN! What the hell is wrong with showing the titlebar text?!


RE: Windows 7 = reduced productivity.
By killerb255 on 10/30/2008 11:44:19 AM , Rating: 2
I actually agree with you somewhat.

When I walk people through things on their computer, I'll tell them something like "Click Start, then All Programs." In Vista, I have to say "Click the little Windows icon at the bottom left hand corner, then All Programs." I guess Microsoft forgot that people know how to read...


By Scrogneugneu on 11/1/2008 3:22:16 AM , Rating: 2
No text, no translation.
No translation, no translator.
No translator, more money.

Shareholders happy.


Taskbars
By lukasbradley on 10/28/2008 6:18:25 PM , Rating: 2
I remember when OS X first hit, and many people made the switch from Windows because of the icon bar at the bottom. As I felt then, I find it absolutely preposterous that the chief new feature touted for a new operating system is the "taskbar." At best, this should be a plug-in, or a third party tool.

I feel this highlights the stagnation in the market's desire for new core OS functions. OS vendors are competing in realms that have no real impact to the OS purpose. The bells and whistles got everyone's attention three years ago.

Honestly, who really gives a damn about a shiny new task bar now? If you do, why?

While I personally feel the statements that Microsoft is "losing the OS war" to be overstated, I do feel they are trying to compete where they should not. WinFS type additions and optimization are my priorities. Why aren't these the top priorities of Microsoft and their consumers?




RE: Taskbars
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 8:54:03 PM , Rating: 1
RE: Taskbars
By mikefarinha on 10/28/2008 10:33:17 PM , Rating: 2
Actually... somewhere I read today that there is something called WinFS 2... not sure how/what it is but I was surprised to see it pop up... I'll try and find more info.


RE: Taskbars
By inighthawki on 10/28/2008 9:15:09 PM , Rating: 1
Honestly, I feel as though that change is not enough. Its my personal opinion that microsoft should scrap what they have and rewrite everything from scratch, and lose the backwards compatibility. If it shipped with a brand new clean API and feature set, developers would be able to take advantage of everything their given to make better and cleaner applications. We need change sin the OS, from the taskbar to the underlying code. Keeping code for compatibility is not bad, but over a period of time it bloats the software, and there's a point where you need to start clean and fresh. Just imagine how wonderful it would be if applications were rewritten to take advantage of the latest technology.


RE: Taskbars
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 9:44:23 PM , Rating: 2
It sounds wonderful and stuff but look at the market share of OS X or Linux which both follow this model. MS understands that excellent backwards compatibility is the key to big bucks. There's nothing we can do about it, this is how software industry always worked and will continue to work in a foreseeable future.


RE: Taskbars
By inighthawki on 10/28/2008 10:11:53 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah i know, and I never really expected it to be a reality, but i can wish can't i ;)

Backward compatibility is half the reason many people use windows, and if a new version of windows came out that wasn't compatible with anything, people would have no real reason to want to use it, and have more potential to stick with older stuff or use linux/mac.

I would buy it, love it, and as a programmer would love a brand new win api, but of course that doesnt mean everyone else would like it...


RE: Taskbars
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 10:40:52 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
as a programmer would love a brand new win api
Try .NET, WPF rocks (really)


RE: Taskbars
By inighthawki on 10/29/2008 10:43:22 AM , Rating: 2
I've been doing .NET in C# for a while, and i actually am getting into WPF, i must admit im loving it ;)


Taskbar question
By inighthawki on 10/28/2008 5:32:29 PM , Rating: 2
Does anyone know if/how well the taskbar will be stretchable. Right now, from the looks of it, it is the equivalent of two taskbars height




RE: Taskbar question
By foolsgambit11 on 10/28/2008 6:50:14 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I'm not too keen on sacrificing any more of my desktop than necessary to the taskbar.

Of course, I'm sure I could make it auto-hide, but it always bothers me to have things move around. It just seems like a waste of resources, plus I'll want to click something on the bottom line of my browser but get blocked by a popping-up taskbar.


RE: Taskbar question
By GaryJohnson on 10/28/2008 7:33:41 PM , Rating: 2
I know you can customize the XP taskbar height in "Advanced Appearence Settings".


RE: Taskbar question
By inighthawki on 10/28/2008 7:57:06 PM , Rating: 2
The reason i ask is because i have very specific preferences to how things look. New things are nice, but things such as the date i find are unacceptable to display by the time. Also as stated, sacrificing desktop space is a bad thing. I'm assuming Microsoft would have thought of something as trivial as this, and especially since a lot of their stuff is usually very customizable.


RE: Taskbar question
By 9nails on 10/28/2008 8:32:42 PM , Rating: 2
I'd still like to see the taskbar appear on other monitors and be reflective of what applications are running in that screen. I know that there's Shareware applications written to fix this. But it just feels like a shortcoming out of the box.

Unrelated to the Task Bar; I'd also like to see the Event Viewer have sortable and stretchable objects windows.


RE: Taskbar question
By mikefarinha on 10/28/2008 10:25:23 PM , Rating: 2
The new taskbar can be ultra customized.
Large/small icons.
You can move it up, down, left, right, like you did before.
You can make it multi-row like before too.

I was watching the PDC demo a bit... think of it like the quick launch bar has compltely taken over the task bar. It looks like the quick launch bar but behaves like the task bar.

Imagine you have firefox, unopened, on your quick launch bar. Then you click on it to open it. Once firefox is loaded the icon on the quick launch bar has a glass sheen to show that it is running.... it is slicker than $#!+!

All running and non running apps can be moved around on the new task/quick launch bar.


RE: Taskbar question
By inighthawki on 10/28/2008 10:37:20 PM , Rating: 2
Are you able to ungroup similar windows/add text to running apps? Or do you not know. The thing i really want is a separate "tab" for each window with text on it, and im somewhat scared because that doesnt look like the case.

Now I haven't really seen it in action nor used it so i dont know if i will really like it worse/better yet, but i there is still time for changes/optimizations


looks like KDE to me.
By Saist on 10/28/2008 6:08:20 PM , Rating: 2
The image here: http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/9529_Windows_7_... :: Other than the windows text for programs, that looks like a direct rip of KDE. Why am I NOT surprised?




RE: looks like KDE to me.
By bodar on 10/28/2008 6:17:31 PM , Rating: 2
I thought that looked familiar, but I just couldn't place it. I was just using a Knoppix live CD yesterday.


RE: looks like KDE to me.
By PhoenixKnight on 10/28/2008 8:07:58 PM , Rating: 2
In other news, Windows Explorer will be replaced by Dolphin.


RE: looks like KDE to me.
By Spivonious on 10/28/2008 9:14:46 PM , Rating: 3
Maybe I'm blind, but it looks like the Vista start menu with a different skin. Are you sure KDE didn't rip off an early build of Vista?


RE: looks like KDE to me.
By VaultDweller on 10/29/2008 8:24:02 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I noticed the KDE similarity too.

Not sure what I think about that. KDE is the desktop environment I use, but I've never liked the taskbar (though it is better than GNOME, or XFCE... or anything except the Windows taskbar, really).


RE: looks like KDE to me.
By Griffinhart on 10/29/2008 12:30:56 PM , Rating: 2
Actually the start menu looks more like Vista's. What has been added are a secondary context menu on applications that when hovered over or clicked on expand out into the view in the screenshot showing recently used documents. I don't know if KDE behaves the same way or not, but this is one screen that doesn't show the whole picture.


looking good, but...
By vapore0n on 10/28/2008 5:51:17 PM , Rating: 2
It actually looks neat

I just hope they didnt shift around again all of the OS options/settings/menus like they did for Vista.

Now, where is Blue Ray support? Where is native h264 support?

I bet since Blue Ray is a stink in the PC right now they are just letting the software vendors deal with the problem. All the while Microsoft Media Center becomes more and more worthless (lack of support for high def and future codecs)




RE: looking good, but...
By poundsmack on 10/28/2008 6:17:43 PM , Rating: 2
well since native blue ray media suport is built into the test seeds of Vista SP2 i have been toying with I would have to say it will certainly be included in Windows 7. as for native h264, well I dont know, but I would only asume.


RE: looking good, but...
By TheDoc9 on 10/28/2008 8:26:30 PM , Rating: 1
What really sucks is that the WinFS file system isn't listed in those specs. I guess the OS overall will still be more streamlined than Vista, I'm not convinced enough to upgrade though.


RE: looking good, but...
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 8:49:47 PM , Rating: 4
RE: looking good, but...
By mikefarinha on 10/29/2008 12:50:13 AM , Rating: 3
From Ed Bott's blog: http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=2195

quote:
In today’s PDC keynote demo. Media Center got no love at all. It also got no love at the reviewers workshop I attended over the weekend. Fortunately, Microsoft’s Charlie Owen is on the case, with a very detailed and thoroughly illustrated look at Windows Media Center in the PDC Build of Windows 7.

High points:

* All the good stuff from TV Pack is in this build.
* H.264 playback is now supported out of the box with Windows 7 — including on Media Center Extenders.
* There’s a desktop gadget (no more Sidebar) that shows TV and recorded shows in the order they are recorded.
* Music playback is greatly improved.

And, drum roll…

Rating your content has never been easier in Windows Media Center. By enabling Rating Shortcuts you can press the 1 through 5 buttons on the remote or keyboard to rate the music (or picture as this is one of the shared features) in real time.

If you’re a Media Center fan, this is a must read. If you’re a Media Center developer, be sure to read the follow-up post, which documents changes to the Media Center platform.

Awesome stuff, Charlie. I can’t wait to begin using this.


More crap from Microsoft
By ggordonliddy on 10/28/2008 10:14:59 PM , Rating: 2
This is all pure garbage:

- Making the taskbar HARDER to use without text labels based on each window's titlebar. Are they fuc@ing insane?!

- Moving windows to the top of the screen to enlarge them? Why not just click the Maximize button?! And what if I want to move a window up but I don't want to change it's size?!!!! This is absurd.

They need to fix bugs and quit this crap about visual features which are useless.

Apple is pure feces but Microsoft is trying hard to make themselves more putrid.




RE: More crap from Microsoft
By mikefarinha on 10/28/2008 11:07:33 PM , Rating: 2
Check out these videos to get an idea of how this works
http://www.youtube.com/user/creamhackered

Aero Peek in particular
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipg6ltIZRw0


RE: More crap from Microsoft
By ggordonliddy on 10/29/2008 1:41:29 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah, f'ing great. Now the taskbar buttons for "quick-launch" icons and active applications are indistinguishable. And what if I wanted to launch a new instance of a program from the quick-launch icon? What a steaming pile of bloody diarrhea.


RE: More crap from Microsoft
By mikefarinha on 10/29/2008 9:16:41 AM , Rating: 2
um... did you watch the video?

running apps are distinguishable from non running apps. Check out the last few seconds of the video where he opens up multiple windows/apps.


RE: More crap from Microsoft
By ggordonliddy on 10/29/2008 11:41:31 AM , Rating: 1
Yes, I watched it. You can only tell when you mouse over the icon. Pure fecal garbage.


RE: More crap from Microsoft
By mikefarinha on 10/29/2008 12:34:22 PM , Rating: 2
Take a look at this pic.
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/win7/win7_previ...

You can tell, with out hovering, that IE, MediaPlayer, and Documents are currently running.

Lighten up buddy.


RE: More crap from Microsoft
By ggordonliddy on 10/29/2008 7:39:16 PM , Rating: 2
It is not distinguishable enough, and it is completely absurd to remove the text labels. There is NO good reason for that.


I finally have to criticize Jason Mick
By amanojaku on 10/28/2008 5:38:57 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
While Vista was a solid OS with many new features and improvements, it failed to surpass the growth of the wildly popular Windows XP and also fell short in business adoption.


WAS ? Has Microsoft retired Vista?

quote:
There's also a really intuitive new window scaling gimmick that you'd think would be the kind of thing that a certain smarmy Cupertino-competitor might cook up.


Smarmy? That's a personal judgment, which is not appropriate for a journalist with integrity. For the record Apple is not smarmy; its abuse of the iPhone application store is a prime example which pissed MANY people off.




By foolsgambit11 on 10/28/2008 6:39:41 PM , Rating: 5
Smarmy: 'revealing or marked by a smug, ingratiating, or false earnestness'. Sorry. I'm not even sure that's a personal judgment. I think it's on the Apple.com "About Us" web page.

Okay, but seriously. It stuck out at me as a little 'editorial'. However, I think 'integrity' is the wrong word. 'Professionalism' might be the word you were looking for. Joking snipes don't change the factual accuracy of the article. In fact, it's possibly more ... integrous? ... to include them. It keeps the author's bias from seeping into the writing secretly. Professionalism in journalism, however, is usually equated with pretending to be objective in your reporting. So you want him to be more professional, not have more integrity. Unless you think he's lying about disliking Apple's corporate attitude.

As a side note, journalism has a long an glorious tradition of taking sides. Do you think the mainstream media's reporting roots for the terrorists in the GWOT? 'Journalism' is half of the phrase 'yellow journalism'. That 'freedom of the press' the United States' founding fathers fought for was specifically to allow voicing of opinions contradictory to government policy - i.e. taking a side. It's only recently, say, the last 100 years or so, that people have expected neutrality from journalists at all levels. I am not entirely certain we should want neutrality from all media outlets. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view for a starting point.

As for the 'was' in reference to Vista, I think, in the context, it was clear. To clarify, it would be
quote:
'While Vista (at release) was a solid OS with many new features and improvements, it (has) failed to surpass ... and (has) also [fallen] short....'
I'll admit, these changes do technically change the meaning, but let's acknowledge that the people here at DailyTech do a good job of compiling the most important science and technology news quickly, clearly, and with little or no remuneration. In a field where timeliness is important to keep readership engaged, I for one am willing to suffer the occasional typos or tense errors.


By tastyratz on 10/28/2008 7:34:12 PM , Rating: 1
Oops. Guess I missed the memo saying apples entire advertising pivot is anything BUT "smarmy" radiation. But hey, who needs facts and demonstrations when you can spread propaganda?

Did I also miss the memo where a journalist was not allowed to include a personal opinion in an article? He didn't skew any facts with it which is what counts...
if anything this piece included more straight facts while being less pumped up than usual.


By kelmon on 10/29/2008 4:08:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Smarmy? That's a personal judgment, which is not appropriate for a journalist with integrity.


True, but this is a blog and therefore I was prepared to let it slide. Certainly you'd never see language like that in a "proper" report, however, so if Mr. Mick has aspirations in that direction he probably ought to rethink his writing style in the future.

Still, this site is read mostly by the pro-Windows brigade so I'm sure that phrase went down well.


This is friggin' AWESOME!!!!LO!!000LCAT
By mikefarinha on 10/28/2008 10:03:39 PM , Rating: 2
One feature that will be in Windows7 that wasn't mentioned in this article is the ability to create and boot into a VHD (Virtual Hard Disk).

This means that you can create a, lets say 20GB VHD, with WinXP on it and then you can tell the boot manager to reboot and then boot into your WinXP VHD.

I'm assuming that this would give you full access to all hardware on the PC.

You could also manipulate the VHD so that changes aren't save.

Great for running things that need older windows compatibility and for development test environments!

Droool




By mikefarinha on 10/28/2008 10:05:35 PM , Rating: 1
Another awesome feature is that you will now have BitLocker for flash memory so that you can encrypt stuff between computers.


By mikefarinha on 10/28/2008 10:12:44 PM , Rating: 2
Multi-Screen Remote Desktop.

Check this link out for the video of the demos
http://wm.istreamplanet.com/customers/ms/750_ms_pd...


By mikefarinha on 10/28/2008 10:15:51 PM , Rating: 1
Also it was mentioned that most of the stuff on the Aero taskforce will be implemented in Win7
http://www.aerotaskforce.com/


RE: This is friggin' AWESOME!!!!LO!!000LCAT
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 10:20:04 PM , Rating: 1
Where did you read about this? Please post a link


By mikefarinha on 10/28/2008 10:26:19 PM , Rating: 1
It is in the video I posted up... about 50-60 mins into the video.


By mikefarinha on 10/28/2008 10:46:44 PM , Rating: 1
Someone wrote a summary on wikipedia already.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7#Virtual_har...


Nothing to complain about
By Fronzbot on 10/28/2008 5:44:52 PM , Rating: 2
Looks good to me, though can't say if I'll be upgrading or not. My computer runs Vista perfectly, not a hiccup yet (been running it for a year now!) The only thing that will get me to think about buying it is if it has a performance increase over Vista in games (as that is what I bought my rig for). But that's not really important when it comes down to it.

I'm thinking that windows 7 will be the "common-man" OS while Vista will be the "enthusiast" OS (I'm just guessing on this, we'll have to wait and see, but for some reason I think Vista will outshine 7 when it comes to gaming capabilities. Who knows, I certainly don't!)




RE: Nothing to complain about
By amanojaku on 10/28/2008 5:55:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm thinking that windows 7 will be the "common-man" OS while Vista will be the "enthusiast" OS (I'm just guessing on this, we'll have to wait and see, but for some reason I think Vista will outshine 7 when it comes to gaming capabilities. Who knows, I certainly don't!)


I disagree. An OS with less overhead typically equates to faster processing (DOS is an exception.) In other words, a smaller Windows 7 should be a faster gaming OS than Windows Vista.


RE: Nothing to complain about
By 9nails on 10/28/2008 8:08:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I disagree. An OS with less overhead typically equates to faster processing (DOS is an exception.) In other words, a smaller Windows 7 should be a faster gaming OS than Windows Vista.


On that same token, I'd argue that an OS with less overhead which might be able to process applications faster, but it is also likely to have less features. Unless Microsoft really blundered optimization when they wrote Vista, I'm more prone to think that certain features must be disabled to reduce overhead. Possibly these can now be selected during the install and remain behind on the install DVD if you select.


But can it play Crysis?
By gigahertz20 on 10/28/2008 5:35:59 PM , Rating: 2
I think most people will do the same for Windows 7 as they did for Vista, wait a year or two for software/drivers/security fixes then make the upgrade. People that adopt a new OS better like fixing problems, I always like to give it some time before jumping the gun. When Windows 7 comes out, I'll just hold onto Vista for a year or two then make the jump, unless Windows 7 users are experiencing no problems and there is a noticeable improvement in performance or something else important then I might upgrade earlier.

So far Vista has not crashed on me once, so hopefully Windows 7 is more of the same. Hopefully the gaming performance is up to par as well.

What I really would like to see is some kind of hardware monitoring utility built into Windows 7, something that warns people when a temperature on a component is getting to high, or why the computer crashes or locks up, it would be nice if the OS could tell you the problem in plain English, instead of giving you some crpytic error code. Basically a smart OS.




RE: But can it play Crysis?
By kyleb2112 on 10/28/2008 8:46:30 PM , Rating: 2
Most people didn't choose Vista. It came pre-loaded when they bought a new computer.


Theme for Windows 7
By greylica on 10/28/2008 8:57:59 PM , Rating: 2
Seventh son of a Seventh son...
Seventh son of a Seventh soooooon.

:D




RE: Theme for Windows 7
By radializer on 10/28/2008 9:28:03 PM , Rating: 2
Maiden FTW!


I'm sorry, but...
By Emryse on 10/28/2008 9:10:44 PM , Rating: 2
There is not ONE SINGLE NEW concept *really* in any of the three screen shots you showed me "previewing" this "new" OS.

Probably more-so Microsoft's fault than yours.

I will need to see some very substantial changes under the hood and in the way I interface with my computer to make me buy their next OS.




RE: I'm sorry, but...
By mikefarinha on 10/28/2008 11:04:39 PM , Rating: 2
Ok, check out this site to get an idea of some of Win7's new features.
http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/win7_preview.asp


New desktop framework.
By Jacerie on 10/28/2008 11:30:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
When you click the desktop, all windows go transparent offering you a free view. This is helpful to glance at gadgets, which have been moved from Vista's sidebar to a fixture on the desktop.


This may just be hoping for too much, but this looks to me as if the desktop itself is finally it's own dynamic object. For every past version of windows, the desktop has been rather static. There have been minor improvements to this such as active desktop, and now with vista we get to play with dreamscene, but true customization of your desktop required 3rd party apps.

If this is indeed it's own object within the explorer framework we could do damn near anything we wanted with our desktops without any additional overhead.

When's open beta?




RE: New desktop framework.
By mikefarinha on 10/28/2008 11:32:53 PM , Rating: 2
Currently unannounced but I believe Decemberish...


DON'T WANT NO UPGRADE
By JonnyDough on 10/29/2008 3:42:21 AM , Rating: 2
Give us a new OS. It's the only way to clean it and make it faster. 64-bit with all new everything! One good OS and then MS can drop out of the OS business for awhile like the did follow XP. I'm all for it.




RE: DON'T WANT NO UPGRADE
By Gondorff on 10/29/2008 10:18:45 PM , Rating: 2
Umm... no.

Vista was your "new OS" and that's why it has had such growing pains--hardware incompatibilities, unpopular feature changes, etc. Like Windows 2000, Vista was a completely new version of the underlying operating system/kernel. Like Windows XP, Windows 7 is an incremental improvement. This gives it the opportunity to polish up the shortcomings of Vista while not suffering from kernel related hardware problems like Vista. Just like your hero, XP.

Regarding 64bit: that would be nice, but is ultimately at the mercy of the consumers of Windows, primarily businesses, that can't get over 32bit compatibility issues. Hopefully, with RAM becoming a more obvious hardware limitation, the problem will solve itself with the Dells and HPs of the world favoring 64bit OSes to run better hardware. One can hope...


So any DirecTV's PC tuner (HDPC-20) support?
By gwynethgh on 10/29/2008 7:12:12 AM , Rating: 2
Is this thing dead or will MS come up with the promised support? It was promised for service pack one and it was a no show.




By Integral9 on 10/29/2008 9:05:43 AM , Rating: 2
I'm pretty sure that's going to require a piece of hardware from DirecTV as their signal is different from analog cable and digital cable. I think it's packet based, err, that's the impression I got from the technician.

I'm not sure what MC has to do with it. Maybe the way DirecTV handles the channel # assignments.


Still no reason to upgrade from XP
By Thundrcrackr on 10/29/2008 12:53:31 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft needs to make something new and innovative. Not slightly improve on what already works perfectly fine. Another few years wait for nothing special. :-/




By omnicronx on 10/29/2008 1:06:55 PM , Rating: 2
So with Vista, the under the hood changes, (which I would definately call innovative) were not enough, so this time around they change the look and feel, and it is also not enough. What exactly are you looking for here?

If Windows 7 can look like this are run smoothly on 1GHZ hardware with 1 gig of ram, that's definitely what I call innovative.

Of course its easy to use the word and not explain what features you would like to have added, but then again its much easier to bash someones idea, then to come up with a good one yourself, isnt it...

Apple has yet to even harness the full power the x86 processor when you compare it to windows or linux. If 7 can really do what they say, they will be leaps and bounds ahead of Apple in terms of performance. Or do you care to show me a 1GHZ C7/Atom running OSX smoothly.


Yes but...
By Hieyeck on 10/29/2008 4:19:11 PM , Rating: 2
Will it run *smack* OW OK OK

Seriously, will it have a Windows Classic theme? <_<




RE: Yes but...
By mikefarinha on 10/29/2008 4:21:02 PM , Rating: 2
If you mean 'gray task bar' then yes. If you mean old task bar then no.


By ElFenix on 10/28/2008 6:19:47 PM , Rating: 2
more than a decade of user interface studies and all they've managed to do is minor tweaks to the task bar. whoopty-fricking-do. next thing you know they're just going to give up entirely and the buttons will look like half-used bars of soap like the old F-150 dashboards or current canon SD cameras.

why do they bother with UI changes when nothing is any more intuitive than it was before and now everyone has to relearn where everything is. i can't tell you how many times i've gone to 'Add/Remove Programs' in Vista just to realize it ain't there anymore.




Ugly GUI
By buzbro on 10/28/2008 6:59:23 PM , Rating: 2
Man, those screenshots are not looking too nice at all. I always thought Vista would be a hard act to follow visually. I hope they do some more work on this. I think for many people the aesthetic is the most defining feature of an OS (given of course that it is fast and stable).




Windows 7 UI
By kremlin038 on 10/28/2008 8:28:14 PM , Rating: 2
Not too sure if anyone notice this. The new "pre-released" Windows 7 UI looks and feels like a combination of Vista, E (Enlightenment) and KDE.

Just a thought.




Similarities
By KineticArc on 10/28/2008 10:27:08 PM , Rating: 2
I just want to see if someone else thinks this way or not, but I've been using KDE 4.1 and am noting a similarity to kicker and the Windows task bar.

http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.1/screenshots/d...

That's one of the many screen shots I've seen floating on the web, but when I saw the task bar, I instantly thought of KDE 4.1. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, but just noting that I believe they are very similar, especially with KDE 4 being out since January of this year.




Cant wait to spend my $$$...
By AUHamer on 10/29/2008 2:00:20 AM , Rating: 2
Well....maybe now I will only have to skip Vista.....




what are they trying to say?
By goku on 10/29/2008 3:15:15 AM , Rating: 2
"As to those hoping for a lighter build, it looks like your dreams may come true. Windows 7 Chief Steve Sinofsky held up his "personal" laptop during the demo. It was running Windows 7 flawlessly on a 1 GHz processor netbook (probably using a VIA processor) with only 1 GB of RAM. It was running very smoothly, with over half the RAM free to use."

So they're saying it's impressive that they for once didn't multiply the system requirements by a factor of 4 like they've historically done? I guess that's impressive by some sort of measure, but that still doesn't address the fact that 1GB of ram for an OS or even 512MB of ram is atrocious. I shouldn't need so much processing power, system memory and disk space in order to run the basic FUNDAMENTALS that is the OS. Now if "disabling" or removing visual effects, etc. to bring it down to a look that is similar to Windows 2000 and results in an OS that consumes a similar amount of memory, THEN I'll be impressed!

It's just like with the car makers, the cars keep getting bigger, heavier and heavier with worse and worse mileage (until recently I suppose) with each refresh and it just never stops!




Windows 2007
By nashberger on 10/29/2008 10:17:11 AM , Rating: 2
I dont know about the rest of you but I am somewhat unimpressed with Microsoft's wares. I read articles about new features of Windows 7 and I'm kinda like where's the "Wow?" Better battery life? Ok. Shouldn't that just be a given improvement? Where is the innovation? A sorta streamlined interface over Vista? Ok I can do that with windowblinds or something. I run Vista x64 Ult. SP1 brought great improvements to the OS, its stable it doesn't nag with UAC as much and its security is better overall vs XP. Ultimate extra's weren't worth the extra $75-100 originally doled out for it. I feel like MS is merely leading cattle (us, you and me) to a trough every few years for "features" that are mediocre at best if they are features at all. When Windows 98 came out they included improvements to 95 and all the Plus! stuff. I was like wow thats great, I can get themes to customize my OS's look and feel. It just seems to me the longer we go the less we get its sort of bland. It seems like MS is out of touch with people all the way around. They need better focus groups. I wish MS would take three years out and just optimize what they have instead of being so capital driven for the next big thing. Do we need 1 million lines of code to do various things? Can we cut down to a few thousand to reduce the chug so it runs great on a uni core as well as quad core? Thoughts feelings?




Overall...
By killerb255 on 10/29/2008 4:22:09 PM , Rating: 2
Unless this changes between now and RTM:

1) If you have XP and have no real reason to upgrade, just wait for 7. Don't bother with Vista.

2) If you have Vista now and hate its resource-consuming ways, go ahead and get 7 when it goes RTM.

3) If you have Vista now and hate its UI, you probably won't like 7 either...(and are probably one of the many "switch to Linux" or "switch to Mac" zealots out there).

4) If you have Vista and like it, there's not much reason to get 7. 7 is to Vista as XP is to 2000.

5) If you need 64-bit NOW, get Vista.

6) If you need 64-bit, but not for a year or two, see #1.

7) If you want a 64-bit Media Center, and do not want to use third-party apps, Vista is the way to go for now until 7 comes out. There is no 64-bit XP Media Center Edition.

Windows 7 is there for:

1) People with XP that are happy where they are at and don't see anything worthwhile in Vista.

2) People that have Vista pre-SP1's bad reputation entrenched in their minds and won't give it a chance with SP1. New name = new perception.




Show me the numbers...
By Shmak on 10/29/2008 5:47:53 PM , Rating: 2
All I care about is performance. They can tweak little UI bits and menu changes all they want, but until I see numbers I'm not buying anything. An OS should be simple and transparent, yet they keep bloating it up with features, release another version, hide them, and call it "streamlined." The OS is a tool, not an end in itself, and its only as good as its ability to run other programs.




cool new feature
By TMV192 on 10/28/2008 7:38:33 PM , Rating: 1
"There's also a really intuitive new window scaling gimmick that you'd think would be the kind of thing that a certain smarmy Cupertino-competitor might cook up. The cool new feature expands windows which you drag up to the top of the screen, and shrinks them as you drag them down the screen"

that's awesome, except you could to that on Linux for years




Looks like vista to me...
By silversound on 10/28/08, Rating: -1
RE: Looks like vista to me...
By 3DoubleD on 10/28/2008 5:09:34 PM , Rating: 3
What are you smoking? It was running on a 1 Ghz CPU + 1GB of RAM netbook. I think there was an article the other day where posters were ripping into Dell for selling a similar netbook with Vista. While we can't know how well it was running on that netbook, I'm sure they wouldn't have shown it if was clunky and slow (and if it was I'm sure we would have heard about it).

I for one thinks this sounds very promising and look forward to its release. I love Vista and Windows 7 looks like another step in the right direction: adding more modern OS features and improved productivity.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By Nyamekye on 10/28/08, Rating: -1
RE: Looks like vista to me...
By 3DoubleD on 10/28/2008 5:40:17 PM , Rating: 2
Your first problem was that you didn't install the latest ATI drivers to begin with. Your second one was that you didn't think to do it when the problem occurred. The Windows Update utility is useful for some drivers and works great for finding my laptop drivers, but I install all of my desktop drivers on my own because I want to know I have the latest and greatest. It is unfortunate that Windows Update can't install all of our hardware consistently, but I imagine if it could they would have named it Windows Automatic Update and Installer. Since PCs have such varied software I don't that will every happen. Apple can do it because they support such a limited selection of hardware (the reason behind their "It Just Works" motto).


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By amanojaku on 10/28/2008 6:01:26 PM , Rating: 4
Correction: Nyamekye's first problem is that he/she didn't use his/her brain. You don't get your drivers from Microsoft, you get them from the hardware vendor. How can you be a gamer and not know that?


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By quiksilvr on 10/28/2008 7:14:25 PM , Rating: 2
I admit that Vista is not bad, but that doesn't mean its good. Unless you are using Vista Basic it is a serious resource hog, you have to go through security hoops just to open programs, you NEED 2 GB RAM just to run it smoothly and takes a LOT of HDD space, making it pretty much unusable in netbooks that don't have much space.

In short, there was little reason to upgrade from XP to Vista with the exception of DirectX 10 for gaming. Other than that, there are Vista skins out there for XP, even a RocketDock and an Aero interface. So...not much point. But Windows 7 is a more optimized version of Vista that takes the problems away, gives a serious upgrade to alot of the programs available (Calculator, Paint, WordPad, gadgets) and makes the system less obtrusive. All in all it looks like the real upgrade from XP.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 7:26:27 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
you have to go through security hoops just to open programs
That's a lie
quote:
you NEED 2 GB RAM just to run it smoothly and takes a LOT of HDD space
Not a concern given current hardware prices
quote:
making it pretty much unusable in netbooks
People buy netbooks for ultimate portability, not for the latest hip and fashionable OS gimmicks, hence noone cares about Vista on netbooks, everyone uses XP or Linux and is happy with it.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By quiksilvr on 10/28/2008 8:37:36 PM , Rating: 2
No its not. You have to specifically go into settings and turn off how it warns you to open a program, if you want to be told about upgrades, if you want to be told about your firewall and virus protection and if you have privileges to make something the default program when opening specific files.

Affordability is relative; if you can run a current OS using 1 GB RAM, a 1 GHz processor and takes less than 10 GB of HDD space, there would be no need to go 2 GB or up the processor or HDD. If this OS can take a minimal amount of resources and bring on the table a slick OS that runs efficiently and has up to date programs, netbooks can have Windows 7 instead of Windows XP, so that your notebook and desktop can have exactly the same OS.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 9:29:06 PM , Rating: 1
Yes it is. You don't have to turn off UAC just to "open programs" as you claimed above.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By inighthawki on 10/28/2008 10:41:07 PM , Rating: 2
The only programs u need a UAC prompt for are those which modify system settings. That means registry editor, comp management, and installing software. -and maybe a couple features here and there to change some settings. Otherwise, you are using very incompatible software, and you should consider alternatives or updating.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By Etsp on 10/28/2008 5:40:25 PM , Rating: 2
I'm pretty sure XP does that as well... and it's been common knowledge for a long time that you shouldn't use microsoft's graphics drivers to play games...Microsoft can't decide which driver is best for your hardware, the hardware manufacturer does that. It shouldn't be Microsoft's job to hunt down the latest drivers for all hardware, that burden should be on the makers of the hardware themselves. Mac's might not have that issue, but that's because they decide what hardware is in the system.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By mikefarinha on 10/29/2008 12:46:00 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft is starting to get manufactures drivers to put up on windows download. They probably wont be the most current but they sure as heck will be stable.

We'll all benefit when people stop blaming Microsoft for crappy 3rd party hardware drivers.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By Zirconium on 10/28/2008 5:21:53 PM , Rating: 2
Better question would be what are you smoking?
quote:
I'm sure they wouldn't have shown it if was clunky and slow
Really? Aren't these the same companies that sold computers with tons of bloatware that would slow down your PC? That's a rhetorical question. I have seen innumerable PCs shipped with too little ram and too many programs loading at startup. Believe me, Dell, HP, Toshiba, Gateway, etc., would definitely sell a clunky and slow PC if it meant they could make a buck.

That said, people need to stop ragging on Vista. It has been running fine for quite a while now.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By 3DoubleD on 10/28/2008 5:32:34 PM , Rating: 2
If Dell/Toshiba/HP/ect was showing Windows 7, then this would be true. Fortunately, Microsoft was running the show and we get to see how Windows 7 runs, not how Norton Antivirus can bring your hardware to a halt. I think if people can't configure their computer to run well (eg. remove obvious bloatware, don't run things you don't need) then that's their own fault regardless of what OS they use. A netbook only needs office productivity applications, an internet browser, some media software, and maybe an anti-virus program (I almost couldn't be bothered, just do online scans occasionally).

To me the most important thing is it should be quick to start-up and snappy when on the web, what else can you expect from a netbook. Again, that is up to the user and whether they are competent or not.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By Lakku on 10/28/2008 6:15:53 PM , Rating: 2
Norton 2009 suite isn't all that bad for once.. it uses less than 10 or 15 megs of RAM and is streamlined. It is also pretty accurate, suprisingly, though not saying it's as good as others. At least they listened finally and it turned out to be one of the best consumer security suites out for 2009 versions.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By threepac3 on 10/28/2008 6:32:27 PM , Rating: 2
The newest version of Norton Internet Security 2009 runs extremely well also. All together it uses only 10 megs, which I'm really happy with.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By Aloonatic on 10/28/2008 5:33:01 PM , Rating: 4
I'm sure the machine in the demo passed all the criteria to be certified:

"Windows 7 capable"

Namely, had a large enough free area of space, without another sticker on it.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By vapore0n on 10/28/2008 5:53:56 PM , Rating: 2
Specs are mentioned above.
1GHz, 1GB Ram. My guess is that hard drive requirement was halved too.

Now I wonder if it was a dual core 1ghz, the dual makes a lot of difference.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By mikefarinha on 10/29/2008 12:47:59 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft is starting to crack the whip on PC manufactures. Look up the Microsoft effort called "Vista Velocity."

I'm not sure of the details but it is a program Microsoft is working with PC mfg's to ensure Windows runs smooth out of the box.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By foolsgambit11 on 10/28/2008 5:58:07 PM , Rating: 2
Well, he said it 'looked' very resource consuming. Which is the key. It's the same thing the iPhone did. The UI looks sleek and resource-consuming, but at a low level it is optimized very well to operate on low resources. Make it look resource consuming without being resource consuming.

I do wonder about the graphics subsystem of the notebook. I mean, if it was a netbook, they couldn't have been that great.

As a side note, the new taskbar is more like OS X than ever. (Maybe that's what you meant by 'adding more modern OS features'.) I for one liked a little text to identify different programs, especially when I have multiple instances running (less frequent since tabbed browsing came about, but it still happens). The thumbnail is a more elegant but less efficient substitute. It requires, on average, more mouse movement.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By DJ Brandon on 10/28/2008 6:14:16 PM , Rating: 2
There is a HUGE difference between running "smooth" and running "fast". XP in most cases runs "fast" while vista runs "smooth" but slow. Two out of the Three laptops I bought from HP I downgraded to XP because I for one do not like to wait 10 minutes for a computer to boot up. With XP my Pc boots up in 8-10 seconds. That is what I want from a PC. I want to open IE or Mozilla and it pops up without having to take a cigerette break. I look forward to trying windows 7 and as it may run "smooth" doesn't mean it won't be a memory hog and run slow.

Obviously, with time, programs will require more/faster hardware and hardware will get faster/better. You will not find two many people with 2 gbs of ram on a laptop let alone 4gb because laptops are just now becoming more compatible with 4 gbs. What the hell are people like myself(mobile DJ's) supposed to do with a process hogging machine. Just use winamp? On one of my laptops which is 2 years old I have an AMD Turion 64 with 2 GB of ram running XP(bare install). When I use Just Karaoke and Virtual DJ some choppyness occurs. Now you want me to run that on Vista or 7? Screw that. Until you get me a laptop that can utlize 6-8 GBS of RAM and a Quad core processor I need to work with XP. There is no need to make a Vista move and probably not a 7 either!


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By Lakku on 10/28/2008 6:27:55 PM , Rating: 2
Err.. you get a Mac? Thought all DJ's worth anything used Macs... could be wrong.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By DJ Brandon on 10/28/2008 6:36:35 PM , Rating: 2
LOL that is a stupid trend similar to JBL Powered Speakers.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By Dark Legion on 10/28/2008 7:30:37 PM , Rating: 2
Well if it works, then why would it matter if it's a 'stupid trend'?


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By DJ Brandon on 10/30/2008 8:33:14 PM , Rating: 2
It was more or less a reply to your ignorant "Thought all DJ's worth anything used Macs"


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 7:30:23 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I for one do not like to wait 10 minutes for a computer to boot up
Ever tried to put computer to sleep instead of shutting it down? It's 21st century after all, time to crawl from under your rock :)


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By DJ Brandon on 10/30/2008 8:37:55 PM , Rating: 2
Awesome Idea! Why didn't I think of it. When sleep mode fails or the computer gets nudged wrong in the case and it turns on while the case is somewhat closed and melts to the keyboard ill just say "hey this guy told me to get with the 21st century." I am sure warranty service will cover that! Oh that's right. They don't!


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By mikefarinha on 10/30/2008 11:01:18 PM , Rating: 2
What the heck are you talking about? Melting your computer case?!??!

Please step away from the computer... very slowly...


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By DJ Brandon on 10/30/2008 11:56:25 PM , Rating: 2
Yup... Lady bought a Toshiba laptop.. Month later the screen melted to the keyboard from a standby problem and warranty would not cover it! Awesome huh?


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By mikefarinha on 10/31/2008 1:26:54 AM , Rating: 2
And when was this?

Sounds like one of the problems Toshiba had with the Pentium 4's.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By DJ Brandon on 10/31/2008 1:33:12 AM , Rating: 2
About 18 months ago when I worked at best buy.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By mikefarinha on 10/31/2008 9:19:39 AM , Rating: 2
So you're going to deride an OS because of one incident of hardware failure a year and a half ago?


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By tonjohn on 10/28/2008 7:09:04 PM , Rating: 2
I care most about performance.

2gb is normal today, even for cheap computers. If Vista performs better than Win7 at 2gb+, I'd rather have Vista.

quote:
It was running very smoothly, with over half the RAM free to use.

That comment scares me. If I have extra ram, I want it to be used. Vista does a great job of caching stuff into Ram. I hope Win7 doesn't take a step back in that sense.

(My laptop has 2gb of Ram, my work machine has 4gb of Ram, and my gaming machine at home has 8gb of Ram)


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By Pirks on 10/28/2008 7:45:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I hope Win7 doesn't take a step back in that sense.
I hope it does, otherwise we'll see OS X battery life stomping and dancing on Windows battery life forever


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By kensiko on 10/28/2008 8:42:57 PM , Rating: 2
Well the best thing you will have to do is to install Vista and Win7 and compare performance launching applications. That will be a great test of Win7.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By killerb255 on 10/29/2008 4:43:42 PM , Rating: 2
It sounds like Superfetch may have been turned off in that demo.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By KeypoX on 10/28/2008 5:20:18 PM , Rating: 2
Is this the first windows 7 article you glanced at? Windows vista drivers/hardware will work on windows 7. And also must have missed this article too as it points out it runs well on a 1ghz via with 1gb of memory.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By Mitch101 on 10/28/2008 6:05:34 PM , Rating: 2
A lot of XP drivers work in Vista But most people don't try loading them. My ATI HDTV wonder works in Vista 64 despite there are no drivers for it.

In Vista.
Download Virtual PC - Free.
Create a VM and install your old copy of XP.
Install the drivers for your legacy items.
- For me this was a scanner and an old label printer.
Problem solved.

Now when I need to use the legacy scanner and old label printer I open the VPC and do what I need to do.

Im sure I can share the device inside the VM/VPC with my Vista OS and access them through Vista but its easy enough for me once I have the VPC open anyway to make it full screen and use XP as if the machine was a dual boot.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By Arribajuan on 10/28/2008 5:24:52 PM , Rating: 2
"still looks very resource consuming"

how is that?!

Does blue colors consume a lot of resources? or how do you come to that conclusion?

If it is running on netbook hardware, then it is an improvement over vista.

And of course it is vista. vista was the base for 2008 server which was used as a base for win7.


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By GaryJohnson on 10/28/2008 7:36:10 PM , Rating: 2
Plus, you can still make it like like windows 2000 if you want to?


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By ggordonliddy on 10/28/2008 10:21:51 PM , Rating: 2
> Plus, you can still make it like like windows 2000 if you want to?

That is irrelevant, because they train new users to accept the new design, and then 5 years later they remove the options because only "a few old schoolers use them and they are too hard to maintain."


RE: Looks like vista to me...
By ggordonliddy on 10/29/2008 7:33:15 PM , Rating: 2
And besides, you CANNOT make it the same as 2K or the "classic" theme in XP.

You can make it SIMILAR (with more bugs), but not the same.


"A politician stumbles over himself... Then they pick it out. They edit it. He runs the clip, and then he makes a funny face, and the whole audience has a Pavlovian response." -- Joe Scarborough on John Stewart over Jim Cramer














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