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Mass market adoption eludes 3G iPhone in Japan

The 3G iPhone may be headed towards failure in Japan according to communications sector senior analyst Inui Makio who works for financial services firm UBS. In an article on Japanese tech site ItMedia +D, Inui points out all of the reasons why the 3G iPhone may have lost momentum in Japan.

The 3G iPhone, which was projected to sell one million units in Japan, appears to have only sold 200,000 units at the most. Both Apple and Softbank continue to keep actual sales figures a closely guarded secret. Inui’s initial estimates put yearend sales figures at 350,000, but that figure appears unreachable at the current sales rate. Although it has only been a short period Softbank has already adjusted 3G iPhone pricing plans lower in an attempt to boost sales.

The lack of features found in most Japanese cell phones appear to be holding back the iPhone from succeeding in Japan. The 3G iPhone is not able to use pictograms in text messages and emails. This may be a show stopper for the average user as text messaging is far more prevalent then voice calls due to the high cost charged per minute. The ability to convey a message with a single image is significantly faster than typing out the entire word.

Unlike most Japanese cell phones, the 3G iPhone cannot be used as a substitute wallet using Felica technology. Also, the 3G iPhone cannot take advantage of the 1Seg mobile television service available on some Japanese cell phones. These factors appear to be limiting 3G iPhone adopters to fans of apple products and not the critical mass market.

According to Inui, the fact the 3G iPhone was not tailored to the Japanese market is the primary factor limiting its current success. Unlike the West where cell phone use was typically limited to text messages and voice calls, the ability to access the internet and listen to music using a cell phone was not a new feature for the Japanese market.



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not surprise at all
By amdwilliam1985 on 9/5/2008 1:30:21 PM , Rating: 5
I'm not surprise at all, comparing to all the other high-end cell phones offered in Japan, iphone is more like a baby toy to them. The Japanese got like 5 years phone technology ahead of the rest of the world. So what's new for us, might not be new to them.




RE: not surprise at all
By staradderdragoon on 9/5/2008 1:43:15 PM , Rating: 3
What did Apple expect? Japan has had 3G for more than the last 3 years. If I am correct, Japan's already on 3.5G going onto 4G. my K800i which I've had for over 2 years, though not a touchscreen phone, has more 3G capabilities than the iPhone does with video conferencing and a GOOD camera(in phone standards) for sending photos. The US could never make a phone that would satisfy Japan's mobile standards. One of the flaws of having a limited number of carriers. They'll continue making crappy phones like the Razr and people will still buy them.


RE: not surprise at all
By mcnabney on 9/5/2008 2:15:18 PM , Rating: 5
You do know that the US wireless carriers do not now, nor have they ever, designed and manufactured a phone?

Since American's only seem to want free or cheap (excluding Apple fans who will throw money at anything with logo) the domestic carriers have no incentives to offer more expensive devices to only see them sit on the shelves.


RE: not surprise at all
By staradderdragoon on 9/5/2008 3:17:49 PM , Rating: 2
i never said that the carriers manufacture them. i was implying that the limited number of carriers we have limit the number of services they provide. The carriers have no incentive to introduce new services. The average consumer is unaware of these possibilities so they're not going to want what they dont know exist. So of course Americans are only going to want cheap phones. Why would i want to pay 400 bucks for a phone in which I cant use half of the capabilities cause the carriers dont support them? or the fact that carriers charge obscenely high prices for plans?


RE: not surprise at all
By shock66 on 9/5/2008 5:10:05 PM , Rating: 4
I'd like to point out that Japan only has three "major" carriers: Softbank, AU, and DoCoMo. There are others, but I think the number of carriers is roughly equivalent to the craptacular trinity of VZW, AT&T, and TMobile (plus some others).

I can't say I'm an expert but I always felt that the only reason we have crappy phones in the States is that most people don't know that there's better, and don't care. People were blissfully unaware that our phones (and networks) are absolute crap until the iPhone showed up, and they just gobble it up because they think that's the best a phone can get.

Living in Japan forever changes your views on phones and service; I can't go to a store here without wanting to flush every POS phone there.


RE: not surprise at all
By bobsmith1492 on 9/5/2008 6:25:07 PM , Rating: 1
Also some people don't like phones that much.

I'm stereotyping but it seems Oriental people talk a lot more than many Americans - they're more social so phones are more important.

Me, I have one in case of emergencies but I don't use it more than 3-4 times a week so I don't care as long as it's cheap and I can talk when I need to which it does just fine.


RE: not surprise at all
By copperdog on 9/10/2008 10:32:23 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, you are stereotyping.


RE: not surprise at all
By Schadenfroh on 9/5/2008 3:47:11 PM , Rating: 2
That pretty much describes me, I am using the same phone that my provider gave me for free when I threatened to drop right before they phased out the old analog phones. I hate cell phones, but they are handy for certain situations.


RE: not surprise at all
By zolo111 on 9/6/2008 12:09:08 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
The US could never make a phone that would satisfy Japan's mobile standards


I guess the same should apply to cars & consoles.


RE: not surprise at all
By Smartless on 9/5/2008 3:22:20 PM , Rating: 4
Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Japan where the test the latest and greatest products and when it does well there they bring it here. That might be the old way of doing things but it was always seemed that way. Brings me back to my favorite quote from Black Hawk Down... "We just lost the initiative." about 20 years ago.


RE: not surprise at all
By silversound on 9/5/2008 6:37:19 PM , Rating: 2
Actually America cellphones and companys has been closer with the technology in Japan. Remember when Japanese already got 3G while most Americans still using the no music big cellphone years back? Maybe 2 years slower, not 5 years...


RE: not surprise at all
By Chocobollz on 9/7/2008 5:36:23 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, and we here in Indonesia already have 3G in like 3 or 4 years ago? (IIRC) And not to mention that we already in transition to 7.2 Mbps HSDPA network..


This article is pretty much on point
By amanojaku on 9/5/08, Rating: 0
RE: This article is pretty much on point
By TheDoc9 on 9/5/2008 2:23:34 PM , Rating: 3
For some reason I don't think of Lambo when I see the iphone. Maybe a BMW 3 series, and how many of those do you see in Japan.


RE: This article is pretty much on point
By amanojaku on 9/5/2008 4:10:08 PM , Rating: 4
I didn't mean the iPhone is a high-performance device. That's why I said "on display" and not "on the road." When I made the comparison I meant:

1) Overpriced
2) Under-featured
3) Useful only for attracting ditsy, hot girls


RE: This article is pretty much on point
By Jedi2155 on 9/5/2008 11:11:08 PM , Rating: 2
Since I don't really use my phone features much...I'll pay for it to get those ditsy hot girls :).

I'm sure many of us nerds would as well!


By Chocobollz on 9/7/2008 5:31:08 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not coming with you :-)


RE: This article is pretty much on point
By LordanSS on 9/5/2008 6:58:50 PM , Rating: 2
Japs? Lambo? Pffft...

Japs have these... =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--_ds4fBR5E


By mikeblas on 9/6/2008 10:09:21 PM , Rating: 2
Where's the "report post" button?


By chick0n on 9/5/2008 4:03:08 PM , Rating: 2
ROFL ? Lambo = iPhone?

epic failed.

iPhone is more like a Ford Taurus, other phones in the US market are like Kia Rio.

Forget about Japan, even Phones in other market are like Lambo to the US. Whats funny is that Samsung had this USB stick thing phone that flips Around & plays MP3 was released in Asia market like 3-4 yrs ago, and it just came out couple months ago in the US market and ppl think its "hot", when I told them "that piece of shit came out like 3-4 yrs ago in Asia Market" they were shock and thought that I was lying.

then I pull my w960 to them and I told them this phone was released like 2 years ago, they like oh shit really? I thought iPhone is the only phone that has touch screen ? ROFL !!!


Since when.
By jgvandemeer on 9/5/2008 1:30:18 PM , Rating: 2
Since when is 350,000 units a failure? Underperforming from expectations maybe, but a "failure"?




RE: Since when.
By AnnihilatorX on 9/5/2008 2:32:11 PM , Rating: 3
That is an pitiful compared to the cell phone market of Japan. Japan is not a small nation and 350,000 is many decimal places as a percentage of cell phone market.


RE: Since when.
By bobsmith1492 on 9/5/2008 2:54:35 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention they've only sold 200,000 - 350,000 was the prediction for the year that they likely won't reach per the article.


RE: Since when.
By omnicronx on 9/5/2008 7:06:59 PM , Rating: 2
I totally agree.. there are almost 130 million people in Japan.

Japan is a huge market for cell phones, so it would not be surprising if 80 million people in japan had phones.

Meaning a grandtotal of 0.25% (by guesstimation of course) of the market owns in Iphone.. thats pretty bad market penetration.


RE: Since when.
By theendofallsongs on 9/9/2008 10:16:26 PM , Rating: 2
But the #1 seller of any single phone is probably no more than a couple million. The IPhone is still going to be in the top ten or so.


RE: Since when.
By DASQ on 9/5/2008 5:43:10 PM , Rating: 4
In terms of investor confidence, selling only 350k when you expected 1kk is a failure (You only reached 35% of your expected sales? 'underperforming' is an overstatement).

In terms of cell phone market saturation, selling only 350k in a target market where cell phones are more common than wrist watches, is a failure (See Stephen's article about what Japanese mobile users like to have on their phones. Apple didn't do a lot of regional research).

In terms of Apple's long term penetration aims, selling only 350k when you want the iPhone to be an entryway product into iTunes and much of the Mac world in itself, is a bit of a failure.


Why iphone is having trouble in Japan
By Senju on 9/5/2008 10:39:32 PM , Rating: 4
I live in Japan and I think I can represent why most Japanese will not buy iphone. Here are the reasons;
1. Too Expensive (with less features)
2. No Suica and other Japanese Wallet services
3. 1seg TV
4. Video Conference
5. One finger input texting is easier due to Japanese Kanji input.

Also, you can't sell the phone by marketing it as a 3G when all phones here are 3G. You can't sell the phone by marketing music, photos,and Internet access because almost *ALL* Japanese phones have this as a standard feature.

Also The High end Japanese phones now include thumb recognizing to secure your phone for security. Also, the camera is much higher quality in resolution that iphone. Also, with my phone I can create a 360 surround shot and upload it to my personal phone webpage which is a free service I get with Softbank. Also, they have utilities to convert all itunes music songs to softbank phones by one touch.

One more thing, all the new phones coming out in Japan this year have Touch sensor (just like the itouch technology).

So, why get the iphone when you can get a better, cooler, more featured Japanese phone?
-SENJU




RE: Why iphone is having trouble in Japan
By Domicinator on 9/6/2008 5:05:13 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, but you know what? There are better and more fully featured phones in the US too, and for a lower price than the iPhone!! Even my wife's bare bones flip phone that she got last year will do MP3 playback. Hell, the iPhone can't even send picture messages unless you do it as a full blown e mail.

I was shopping for a new phone today. I switched jobs and my company line is getting shut off tomorrow. My wife and I were at AT&T looking at everything. Of course the sales rep pulled out her iPhone and started showing me everything it could do (I'm kind of a techie, so I already knew what it could do, but I humored her). It seemed like the iTunes interface was really sluggish and didn't really respond to all the finger swiping very well. The app store is cool, but the text input is ridiculous and the battery life is unacceptable.

I decided on the Samsung Access in the end. Surprisingly enough, my wife said she would be fine with me getting an iPhone. I have such a problem with Apple, I just couldn't do it. Based on principle, I just simply could not tell the sales person that I wanted the iPhone. It would be like going against everything I've ever stood for. I refuse to give Steve Jobs my $199 for that overhyped piece of crap. Not when I can do all the same stuff on the Access for $100 cheaper.


By robinthakur on 9/9/2008 10:27:47 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have such a problem with Apple, I just couldn't do it.


At least you don't pretend to be unbiased...

quote:
It seemed like the iTunes interface was really sluggish and didn't really respond to all the finger swiping very well. The app store is cool, but the text input is ridiculous and the battery life is unacceptable


And you appraised the battery life during the demonstration? Wow, you must have been there for hours...The interface is very fast and responsive with the latest 2.0.2 update for me, text input is fine and fast once you get used to it and battery life is acceptable given the screen size. Battery life has improved since the latest update also. The app store is truly one of the best features.

The iPhone looks significantly better than any other phone out there today to me, and the features are all I need, so I bought one. Having to wrestle with the interface on an inferior phone means more to me than any improved specs it might boast. I've used all the competition including Windows Mobile, Nokias, Samsungs and SE phones and prefer the iPhone interface by far. I am also highly technical so its not just dumb iSheep buying it based on hype, sorry to burst your prejudice..."Better" is a very subjective word. However, if principle (?) stops you buying a certain brand of phone, you probably need some quiet time anyway in a darkened room with some meds...


In other news...
By killerroach on 9/5/2008 1:20:43 PM , Rating: 3
Analyst: Water headed to wetness

I mean, seriously? I understand that, by adding 3G, the iPhone became more suited to the Japanese market, but the lack of Felica and 1seg means it made it into Japan with its head attached (unlike the 2G iPhone; literally no 2G phones are sold in Japan anymore) but is still without arms and legs. It's alive, yes, just largely worthless.




RE: In other news...
By Gholam on 9/5/2008 2:50:13 PM , Rating: 3
It's a testament to the power of iHype that it sold as much as it has...


Cultural Differences
By psychobriggsy on 9/5/2008 1:25:16 PM , Rating: 2
It also can't scan those 2D barcodes that are popular in Japan, or so I read.

Does that wallet service require specific hardware, like an RFID chip or similar inside the phone?

Odd really, because apparently at release the iPhone 3G was selling really well in Japan...




RE: Cultural Differences
By Shida on 9/5/2008 1:36:49 PM , Rating: 2
There is support for iPhones being able to use the QR codes, or "bar codes" as you have described, via the camera (which is how most Japanese phones work when reading QR Codes).

Or so claims this blog entry with links.

http://glimpsephlog.blogspot.com/2008/07/take-for-...


o0o0o0o0o
By drinkmorejava on 9/5/2008 5:32:46 PM , Rating: 2
"The lack of features found in most Japanese cell phones appear to be holding back the iPhone"

lack != abundance




RE: o0o0o0o0o
By mikeblas on 9/6/2008 10:39:42 PM , Rating: 2
Yep; more messy editing. "Features found in most Japanese phones are absent in the iPhone, and this holds back adoption." would've been perfectly clear. And shorter, too!


"Headed Towards Failure" A Bit Over the Top
By Kensei on 9/6/2008 9:59:32 AM , Rating: 2
I also live in Japan and feel your pronouncement of the iPhones death may be a tad premature.

As others have stated, we don't really know how many phones were sold since those numbers haven't been published by Softbank or Apple. That leads me to ask... How did Makio-san come up with his figures and how accurate is his estimate? I'd hate my death to be declared by someone who was guessing vs. knowing my vital signs.

According to Wireless Watch Japan, Softbank had far more new subscribers in July than Docomo or AU with the scorecard reading 215,400 for Softbank, 17,000 for AU and 94,200 for Docomo. Also keep in mind that Docomo has over 53 million subscribers, AU has a little over 30 million, while Softbank has a little over 19 million. Percentage wise that's a big win for Softbank.

Yes, we all knew well before the iPhone was released that it would lose the "feature wars" with other phones here. But think back a little over a year ago when the iPhone was first introduced in the US. Feature wise, it couldn't go toe-to-toe with many phones there (remember Edge)... yet was still a great success. In that case, "it was the interface, stupid" to paraphrase Slick Willie, that made it successful.

I'd agree that the iPhone will probably not be as successful here as in the US, but I don't think it's dead or dying.




By BenMc on 9/6/2008 1:00:31 PM , Rating: 2
I also live in Japan and agree with Kensei.

Certainly not everyone will buy one, but people who see I have one are interested and generally quite impressed. Recently I went to visit a customer (middle aged Japanese man) and was carrying some things in the little Softbank shopping bag I got with my iPhone. When he saw the bag, he excitedly asked, "Did you get one?" and was anxious to see it.

Softbank (and I suppose AU and Docomo have similar deals), "subsidize" their phones. However, you have to keep it for 2 years (actually 27 months), otherwise you end up losing the subsidy. That is even if you just want to change to another phone with Softbank. So, in my case, I just added the iPhone and kept my existing Japanese cell phone for making calls.

This makes it cost prohibitive to run out and switch right away. In fact, when I first asked at Softbank about the iPhone, they suggested I just wait until I had used my current one for 27 months. I still had over a year left.

I have had 3 Japanese cell phones(all Sharp), but other than to check the weather and train schedules, I've only really used them to make phone calls. My Japanese colleague ran out and got one with 1-seg when it came out, but never uses the 1-seg because it drains the battery too fast.

On the iPhone, I listen to internet streaming radio (even in my car or on the train), instant message (via Meebo), read my work email (and attachments), use Google Maps, play some games and use the real internet. Most of these things can't be done on most Japanese cell phones.

I've found using Softbank's unlimited usage plan with the iPhone to be fantastic.

If having Felica, 1-seg, or a high resolution camera is a must, or the person likes typing using the number pad, then they probably won't get an iPhone, but many Japanese can and do live without these features.

Anyway, I think saying the iPhone is dead in Japan is very premature, though I'm sure Docomo and AU would very much like it to die.


By Chaser on 9/5/2008 7:39:37 PM , Rating: 2
Oh good news! Japanese phones are sooo much better than an iPhone! Lets be happy! Lets rejoice!

"I don't have an iPhone so the world must hate it just like I do" Yay! Go Japan! :)

Just More iPhone dirt for the DT reader chorus to savor and gloat over.




By Johnmcl7 on 9/5/2008 8:23:33 PM , Rating: 2
"Unlike the West where cell phone use was typically limited to text messages and voice calls"

This is just complete nonsense for Europe at least, SonyEricsson have been very popular with their Walkman branded phones long before the Iphone was released. That is just one prominent example, most phones feature mp3 playback these days and many support bluetooth stereo.

The phones available before the initial Iphone launch still boast more features than the Iphone does in its current form, far more 'text messages and voice calls'

John




By ilovetruth on 9/6/2008 5:34:55 AM , Rating: 2
I'd like to say some on the reality of Japan.

In the original article, Mr. Inui, analyst of UBS's Japan branch, guessed 200,000 units of iPhone3G sold by the end of August, 350,000 units at most would be sold by the end of 2008.

I take the both figures underestimated ones and unreliable, because he just put the figures without base or data. Moreover since 11 July, he has altered dizzily his estimates for 2008 until now from 200,000 to 1 million.

Moreover Mr. Inui’s guesses are inconsistent with some significant data provided recently by different research firms.

1. According to a market data, the share of iPhone3G(sum of the 16G byte and 8G byte model) in the total handset sold in July at large consumer electronic stores was 4.09%. In Japan 3.5 to 4 million handsets are sold monthly.

2. That of August is not available yet, but at related Web site we can see the share moving between 6% at the early month and 2.5% at the end of month (sum of the 16G byte and 8G byte model).

3. Above mentioned numbers don't include numbers of iPhone3G sold at another sale channel, SoftBank's carrier-shops which sell the firms handsets exclusively. SoftBank operates 2,700 shops in the country. This could be factors to push the above figures at some degree.

4. Two kinds of consumer research conducted recently have detected 0.5% to 0.6% iPhone3G holders in their respondents. The former is done early August for 15,115 respondents, the latter is done mid August for 4,480 respondents. Both samples include wide range of age groups from young to old. Total number of cellphone users in Japan amounts to 104 million at the end of July. Indeed estimation from the samples depends on how to set assumptions, but I think 300,000 to 350,000 are perhaps the minimum figures most people can agree with. According to samples' data, 200,000 and under number is very difficult to validate in terms of statistics.

5. All consumer researchs get almost the same results. Around 5-6% is "want to buy it soon", 30-35% is "interested and consider to buy", 60-70% are sum of "not interested"+"won't buy". I agree with some "slowdown" of iPhone boom which was seen in July, but I think the reason is not a chage of mind, but some negative influence by many bad news from USA, softwear bugs, lawsuit, etc. This might make the positive group stop for a while to see the situation.




Uhhh...
By iFX on 9/6/2008 3:41:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the ability to access the internet and listen to music using a cell phone was not a new feature for the Japanese market.


Those weren't new features when the iPhone launched over here either. I've been surfing the net on my cell phone since at least 2002 and have had a built in MP3 player since at least 2004 - three years before the iPhone.

There must be some other reason it isn't selling over their.




By mikeblas on 9/6/2008 10:07:24 PM , Rating: 2
This kind of writing really disturbs me:

The 3G iPhone, which was projected to sell one million units in Japan, appears to have only sold 200,000 units at the most.

quote:
Projected to sell a million by what time? Has sold 200,000 at the most? How do we know 200,000 is the all-time sales figure? They're not being sold anymore?


With careful editing, sites like DailyTech would be good places to get news about technology. As it stands, readers are left wondering what the stories mean.




Real Reason
By jokinawa on 9/7/2008 7:59:29 PM , Rating: 2
I believe the real reason for the poor sales as of late is the fact that if you are not a Softbank Customer for 6+ months then they charge you $700/8GB and $800/16GB up front for the phone . If you are a 6+ month customer they charge you the normal fee for the phone in the states but they divide it up over the length of your 2 year plan so its only an extra $10-$15/month. I asked softbank why this was and the lady there said it was Apple's policy not theirs.




Japan ... the final frontier
By Sabroson on 9/8/2008 4:07:25 PM , Rating: 2
These are the voyages of Starship Apple ...
Its mission ... to seek out customers
and boldly go where no other US company has gone before.

Anyway ... I am sure that a software update can solve
all those issues for our friends the Japanese :-)

Uhhh ... the advantages of a computer in a phone disguise !




By hongosanchome on 9/8/2008 6:59:04 PM , Rating: 2
I think the main points in this article are valid; I also think a lot of people posting here are missing the point of the iPhone. It really is about the usability of the interface; there are a ton of features on Japanese phones that most people don't ever use. That is why the iPhone was a revelation here in the US, and this is what gives it a (perhaps temporary) advantage over phones being sold in Japan. I can look up a dry cleaner's (or whatever) nearby, look at its web page, find reviews of it on yelp, and look up directions for it from my current location, and call it, all in the space of a minute. It's the ease of use.

There ARE features specific to the Japanese market that almost everybody uses, and one of them is an array of emoticons in text messages. this is easy to implement, and for Apple to not include it is really pretty shortsighted--if it really wants to break into the Japanese market, they will have to adapt their product to some extent to fit the market. This is a very simple way to do this. Same with bar-code readers. I hope they will be working more closely wiht Softbank to this end.

As for the other missing features of the iPhone, camera performance is something I should think would weigh into people's considerations, but I really don't find friends in Japan using television much, and I think people are smart enough to see, after the initial hype of a feature like that, that perhaps some features are really just not needed. The "saifu-keitai," well, this would require additional hardware, and I'm not sure, cost- and design-wise, if it would actually be worth it to Apple to include this. Perhaps it's more that it doesn't fit the "one-size fits all" philosophy of Apple. So, some stuff can be easily adapted, others not so easily.

One feature of the iPhone that is huge in the US, but perhaps not as much of a draw in Japan, is the idea of being able to use the full Internet, as opposed to the Jobs-labeled "baby Internet." The difference is that Japan regularly has had mobile-oriented versions of almost all major websites for quite a while, so a lot of information is already readily available for most phones. Train times and routes, scores, weather, shopping, maps, whatever. It's still not the full Internet, but my point being that the baby Internet is much more usable in Japan than in the US.

But I really do think Apple has something special with its software, design, and usability, and design-conscious Japanese may latch onto this if they're able to see past a simple "feature list." Then again, they might not. I'm a bit skeptical, but hopeful, as I really think the iPhone is a groundbreaking product.




Japan not as advanced as people think
By asmielia on 9/6/08, Rating: -1
By GPachinko on 9/8/2008 12:33:29 AM , Rating: 2
1) The only reason why the IPod become popular in Japan (and in the rest of the world) was due to the it's LARGE storage capacity. The original Ipod had storage up to 5/10gb (Hard drive), while the mp3 players at that time had a maximum of 1 GB of storage (Flash drive based).

2) Iphone 3G is not going to make it in Japan. The Iphone can barely keep up with the other phones (capabilities wise) in Japan; This being said, do you think that Apple will invest its time and money in producing a special model to please the japanese public, when it's general model (3G) is already making a big splash in the Americas and in Europe?


By jabber on 9/10/2008 9:52:51 AM , Rating: 1
Last time I was in the US I was amazed that you could still buy mobiles with pull out aerials on them. I hadnt seen any of those in the shops for ages.

Like a trip down memory lane.

This was about 5 years ago. I'm sure its changed a bit since then.


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