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Print 94 comment(s) - last by Clauzii.. on Jul 18 at 4:01 PM


  (Source: Kotaku)
Microsoft isn't the only game in town when it comes to console price cuts

Microsoft has been making the rounds lately with news of its Xbox 360 price cut. The Redmond, Washington-based company dropped the price of its 20GB Xbox 360 from $349.99 to $299.99. In addition, the company announced that a new 60GB Xbox 360 would occupy the $349.99 price once stock of the 20GB models is depleted.

Not to be left out, Sony today announced some product shuffling of its own. The “non-special edition” 80GB PS3 is returning to the lineup in September – but this time, the console will be priced at $399.99. The 80GB “Core Pack” as it will be called will mirror the existing 40GB model in everything but maximum storage capacity.

The $399.99 price doesn't leave much room for the existing 40GB which occupies the same price point. Sony could make a move similar to Microsoft and reduce the price of the console to $299.99 until the stock is depleted, and then drop the SKU altogether. On the other hand, the company could set the price permanently at $299.99 and leave the SKU in the product mix.

No matter what option Sony ends up choosing, better-equipped and cheaper consoles are a win-win for consumers.



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Not qute a price cut
By aos007 on 7/15/2008 4:22:27 PM , Rating: 5
Better equipped? Quite the opposite. The "new" 80GB is going to lose software-based PS2 compatibility, at the very least (from what I understand even the software emulated version still has some PS2 hardware inside). Don't they also have more USB ports and flash card readers on older consoles? As well as SACD playback capability? There's been quite a few things cut from the console since launch. I have personally used every one of those features on my 60G model.

Looks to me like they are simply looking to improve their profit (or reduce loss) by removing stuff they assume most people don't care about (which they may be right about).




RE: Not qute a price cut
By Polynikes on 7/15/2008 4:49:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Looks to me like they are simply looking to improve their profit (or reduce loss) by removing stuff they assume most people don't care about (which they may be right about).
They're not right. I won't get a PS3 because they no longer have hardware backwards compatibility.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By deeznuts on 7/15/2008 4:55:22 PM , Rating: 5
Pssst, here's a hint. There's the 80GB mgs4 bundle that stil has software BC.

So you won't buy one, for other reasons.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By SiliconJon on 7/15/2008 6:13:24 PM , Rating: 2
I told myself I wasn't going to get one unless they brought back the emotion chip. Unfortunately, I lied. The $100 gift card deal at Walmart was the straw that broke the camels back.

The software emulation on the MGS4 bundle has been sufficient so far, though I have a whole stack of PS1 games waiting for a test run...if I ever get to them with all these new game distractions, such as an incredibly fun and cheap buy of Full Auto 2 ($19 shipped!), some great used buys of UT3 & FEAR, and my soon to acquire Civilization Revolutions which should keep me glued to the couch until Fallout 3 arrives with the assistance of Battlefield BC.

I had a major gripe about the backwards compatability, and still do, but for no good reason except the possibility that I may want to use it more than I already do* and it does not work for an old platform title I wish to play in the future. It seems a waste of power, and the resources of the old titles still afloat in the marketplace, to have such a capable machine not playing older titles.

It does feel odd that they're moving in the wrong direction with their console's ability, but it is the old technology they're leaving behind (SACD, BC), so my complaints are probably moot in their eyes, but it would seem some agree with me.

We enjoy the freedom of playing an old title should we want to, and if Sony isn't willing to do the programming work on the emulator then give it to the community. Sure, there will be results that Sony doesn't like, but the purpose is to harness the power of the community's fruits that are appropriate, not supress the beneficial ones just to spite the undesired ones.

* well, the kids play a couple of PS2 titles, I haven't played any older titles yet


RE: Not qute a price cut
By Murst on 7/15/2008 6:45:59 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I have a whole stack of PS1 games waiting for a test run

AFAIK, every version of the PS3 has the same support for PS1 games. The only difference is in PS2 game support.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By silversound on 7/15/08, Rating: -1
RE: Not qute a price cut
By pattycake0147 on 7/15/2008 9:38:31 PM , Rating: 3
You might want to check your own source again. It says the PS3 is below the 360 in worldwide sales.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By Clauzii on 7/15/2008 10:00:30 PM , Rating: 1
Yes, and I'll guess this round actually goes to 360 since the PS3 likely won't be able to catch up. It will take +20 years at the current rate.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By silversound on 7/16/2008 12:18:22 PM , Rating: 2
As blueray gets cheaper, PS3 will leap way ahead of xbox360,

check the weekly sales, you will see.
Pls note xbox360 release 1 year before both Wii and PS3


RE: Not qute a price cut
By omnicronx on 7/16/2008 12:41:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
As blu-ray gets cheaper, PS3 will leap way ahead of xbox360,
Yes, as more stand alone players become cheaper than the ps3, more ps3's will sell as Blu-ray players</sarcasm>.... now back to reality, its pretty easy to see that as blu-ray players become cheaper than the ps3, less and less ps3's will be bought for its BD functionality.

It does not take a rocket scientist for one to figure out that the only reason the ps3 is selling as a BD player, is because it does not make sense to buy a standalone 350-400 BD player that does not play games. Now once those prices start to drop past 300$ towards the 250 mark (which they currently are in the process of doing) the ps3 becomes less and less attractive as a BD player.

The PS3 successfully pushed BD into mainstream, but unfortunately for Sony, the BD player is only going to push the PS3 for so long, my guess another 6 months at most. Expect to see BD pricing nosedive as the economy worsens, and the impulse buying trend going with it.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By Clauzii on 7/18/2008 4:01:22 PM , Rating: 2
As a BluRay player, the PS3 has the advantage of the CBE, which easaly can run better quality compression algorithms, should those arrive. This sounds as an advantage over a normal run-of-the-mill BR-player.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By Clauzii on 7/17/2008 12:02:40 AM , Rating: 2
Hey, I'm all FOR PS3 to come out on top, but it REALLY needs to sell faster, or PS4 / XBox 480 will be here before that happens with this generation.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By retrospooty on 7/15/2008 11:08:36 PM , Rating: 2
LOL !

Its one thing to post data that may or may not be correct to make your point, but to post data that negates your point takes balls. ;)


RE: Not qute a price cut
By Arese on 7/15/2008 11:43:31 PM , Rating: 1
He was wrong about the total sales; however, he could be referring to current monthly sales, which put PS3 above 360.

Total sales:
Xbox 19.6 million
PS3 13.96 Million
(http://www.vgchartz.com/)

Monthly Sales:
In 2008 we start to see the PS3 pull ahead

Xbox PS3
Jan/2008 230,000 269,000
Feb/2008 255,000 281,000
Mar/2008 262,000 257,000
Apr/2008 188,000 187,000
May/2008 187,000 209,000
(http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=11...


RE: Not qute a price cut
By Complex Pants on 7/16/08, Rating: -1
RE: Not qute a price cut
By omnicronx on 7/16/2008 9:39:03 AM , Rating: 2
Yes because most people go out and buy another xbox instead of sending in their broken one for free for the next 2-3 years.. Sometimes I wonder if you guys think before writing this stuff..

You guys also need to consider the situation here as a hole, the 360 is driven by game sales, the ps3 is driven by both blu-ray and game sales. Its no surprise to me that in the slowest game release time of the year, that the 360 is lagging behind (barely at that) the ps3. Don't be surprised when September comes around if the 360 reclaims it lead over the ps3 until after Christmas.

btw.. I am a proud owner of all three next gen consoles, so I am not trying to show any bias here, I am just writing it as I see it..


RE: Not qute a price cut
By Staples on 7/16/2008 9:56:34 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, there are quite a few people who do go out and buy a new Xbox because:

1) The one you get in return has a higher failure rate than the launch units.
2) MS covers the RROD only. There are quite a few Xboxes that have broken drives which are not covered.

Needless to say, the current Xbox I have is the second one I have bought.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By omnicronx on 7/16/2008 10:37:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
1) The one you get in return has a higher failure rate than the launch units.
2) MS covers the RROD only. There are quite a few Xboxes that have broken drives which are not covered.
Of course some people will be doing this, but to think that a small percentage is going to drastically effect 360 sales you are highly mistaken. It would be lucky if it changed the sales by 1-2%.

As for the drives, its a CD drive, they break, except you left out something, Microsoft replaces these drives for a little over 100 dollars, so once again, chances of there being any considerable percentage of people buying a new 360 when they can get a new drive for 125$ shipped is pretty ridiculous.

One last thing, Ps3 drives fail too, just ask anyone who works for the shipping company they get sent out by. In Canada this is purilator, and I have friends who work at the processing plant that all PS3's in ontario go through to get fixed. Their rough estimate is for every 2-3 360's to come in, there is one PS3, most of which apparently have drive issues. And its more widespread than one would think, my PS3 broke within 2 months, and when I called Sony up, the lady on the phone seemed to already know what my problem was as soon as I mentioned the Disc Drive, and did not even attempt to troubleshoot.

Moral of the story, sure RRODS and broken 360's will increase sales by a small margin, but not nearly enough to consider total worldwide sales close between the 360 and PS3 when you consider all the factors.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By wempa on 7/16/2008 1:01:56 PM , Rating: 2
Don't forget that MS had to increase the warranty length twice. First, it was only 90 days and then it was 1 year before being changed to 3 years. So, a lot of people who were out of warranty might have gone out and bought another box. Also, people who have their boxes modified with the hacked firmware don't have a warranty since they broke the seal to open it. So, if the modified box fails, they might go out and buy a new one. I know a few people in both of these situations who went out and bought new boxes. And since you would still have the hard drive and other accessories, you'd only need to pick up a core or arcade unit. I don't think the number is as low as you do.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By wempa on 7/16/2008 1:03:08 PM , Rating: 2
sorry, the above post was to the REPLY to your post


RE: Not qute a price cut
By Aloonatic on 7/16/2008 4:35:18 AM , Rating: 2
I must admit, it was a confusing comment that had me scratching my head too.*

I am going to take a stab at what they may have meant however.

Instead of "over the world", they may have meant "the rest of the world, excluding America"?

Adding the "Others" to Japan's figures gives the PS3 a lead out side of the USA, but it's not really much to boast about.

The xBox360 is winning in 2 of the 3 regions, and if you exclude the 2 patriotic regions, leaving "others" (I'm assuming this means mostly the EU, Australasia and then the rest of the gaming world) it still shows a sales win for the 360.

It is made all the more pointless when the Wii is still sitting pretty at the top of the chart.

If those figures are correct it's no wonder that I can't get hold of a copy of Mario Kart. Nintendo are really pissing me off with their supply chain/manufacturing problems but with over 28M people to keep happy they are always going to have problems I suppose.

*I rated the comment up to a lofty "0" rating as I do believe that it is worth reading, if only for entertainment value and something of a riddle to be solved.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By silversound on 7/16/2008 12:14:41 PM , Rating: 2
Nah, double check the charts, pls note xbox360 release 1 year prior to PS3 & Wii.

Wii leads all the way pass xbox360 last year and soon PS3 will follow and pass xbox360 in total sales.

In weekly sales, Wii and PS3 sales lead xbox360 every week, dats a fact.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By Polynikes on 7/16/2008 1:34:39 AM , Rating: 2
The software compatibility is not as complete has the hardware solution, from what I've read.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By omnicronx on 7/16/2008 9:48:27 AM , Rating: 3
After the remaining 80GB MGS4 models are sold out, all PS3 skus will remove software ps2 support, not it really matter anyways. One of reasons sony decided to be done with ps3 emulation is that a 95% of potential PS3 buyers could care less if the console plays ps2 games.

It was one of the worst assumptions that Sony made when designing the ps3, expecting that a larger percentage of buyers would actually consider backwards compatibility a needed feature. It's my opinion that if left out compatibility and they originally sold it at a lower price point, that they would be neck and neck with the 360 in total console sales.

I understand some of you guys would not buy a ps3 that did not have BC, but you are far outweighed by those who would have bought the ps3 over a 360 in the first place if the price had been lower.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By BansheeX on 7/16/2008 10:32:26 AM , Rating: 2
I totally agree with this assessment. I personally thought that Sony should have never put the hardware in and dedicated money and effort from the beginning into a pure software solution. It would only maybe achieve 90% accuracy, but that's still pretty good and would be marketable for people wanting to retire their ps2s.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By afkrotch on 7/15/2008 11:10:59 PM , Rating: 2
This here is probably the dumbest arguement I ever hear. "I won't get it, cause it doesn't have BC."

I have the original 60 gig model. Wireless, EE, card reader, etc. So far, the BC has been worthless. I don't use wireless, and might as well just rip the card reader out and let me put another hdd in that spot.

The reason why BC has been worthless, is the fact that the console doesn't support old PS2 controllers. Even with 3rd party adapters, not all controllers work. $300 Beatmania ASC doesn't work on the PS3 and Sony doesn't seem to care about putting out an official adapter. Probably cause the PS2 has so many official/unofficial controllers and toss the PS1 controllers into the mix too.

You're best served keeping your old PS2.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By Polynikes on 7/16/2008 1:35:44 AM , Rating: 2
Does the PS3 controller not work with PS2 games? I couldn't care less about PS1 games.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By afkrotch on 7/16/2008 5:55:06 AM , Rating: 2
You have certain games that work better with certain controllers. Like Guitar Hero, DDR, Beatmania, Taiko no Tatsujin, etc.

I play Beatmania IIDX and attempting to play with a regular PS3 gamepad just doesn't work. A lot of button combinations are hard to do to begin with, then combine that with having to move from combination to combination seconds after one another.

It also takes away from the game. Going from having a turntable with 7 keys to just a gamepad blows.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By Jedi2155 on 7/16/2008 5:58:53 AM , Rating: 2
The problem he stated was with custom controllers that don't use the standard PS controller layout (such as maybe joystick or something).


RE: Not qute a price cut
By ochentay4 on 7/15/2008 4:51:58 PM , Rating: 2
i dont see me playing any ps2 game really...
all i know is that in this generation sony is always chatching up with microsoft, so let them be and we will see better deals.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By BladeVenom on 7/15/2008 6:11:42 PM , Rating: 2
Why? The PS2 has the best selection of games of any consoles.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By LatinMessiah on 7/16/2008 2:03:21 PM , Rating: 2
This is why PS2 BC is so important.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By WTFiSJuiCE on 7/16/2008 3:13:05 PM , Rating: 2
its not that important when you consider that: if you feel PS2 BC is the most important feature on the PS3 and covet the PS2 library so much, it means you already own a decent sized PS2 library yourself; which also means you must already own a PS2.

If you haven't owned a PS2 by now, it most likely means you never cared about the PS2 game library in the first place and BC would be the furthest thing from your mind.

Sure, its *nice* to have everything available in one console, but is it really as make or break as some make it out to believe? Please...

<-- owner of a 40 gig PS3, US PS2, and 2 10+ year old PSX (albeit 1 broken one).
I've had the PS3 for a few months already and I honestly have not put one PS1 (PS2 is a moot point since 40 gig = no PS2 BC) disc into it since my PS2 does it just fine even if it doesn't upscale to 1080i/p...its not that big of a deal.

If you're still hung up over BC hardware getting taken out, erase the sound clips of Phil Harrison n Ken Kutaragi promising full BC that you keep obsessively playing over and over again and wish for software emulation cause as long my PS2 works and my PS3 plays *PS3* games on HD Res, i'm perfectly content.

And if my PS2 ever does break, i'll just go out and buy a slim for 129$ since I know i'll get at least a full value's use out of my console like I did w/ the 300$ I paid for my old PS2.

Good Day Sir =)


RE: Not qute a price cut
By Sanity on 7/15/2008 4:57:52 PM , Rating: 2
Definately glad I got a PS3 with PS2 hardware for BC. Even paying the seemingly exorbitant amount of money for it a year ago has been worth it. I probably would have paid that much just for the Blu-Ray player. This drop to $399 is definately a good deal. $299 would be unbelievable.

The 360 price cut is ok, but will be much better when the new GPU is standard, and the box is quieter. My Elite is LOUD.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By Icelight on 7/15/2008 5:04:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Definately glad I got a PS3 with PS2 hardware for BC.


Agreed. Some of the game looks beautiful (for multiple-year-old PS2 games, anyways) upscaled as well.

And it's been driving me to purchase a lot of the PS2 games I 'acquired' in the past so I can play them all on one machine. May sound like a negative to some, but I find I get more enjoyment out of games that I actually own anyways.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By jordanclock on 7/15/2008 5:03:06 PM , Rating: 3
It's funny you should bring this up considering the hard drive size is the one feature of the PS3 that can be replaced by the user. However, it's the feature that is most attributed to each SKU, instead of the ones you listed, such as backwards compatibility or media connections. There is no reason to spend $100 to go from a 40GB drive to an 80GB drive when you can buy an 80GB drive on Newegg for $50-$60. And since swapping out drives is not difficult at all, you could buy a 40GB PS3, an 80GB HDD and use the saved $40-$50 towards a game (or a DS3 controller) and have an effective 120GB of storage available for your PS3.

But Sony insists on using the hard drive size to mask the fact that many other features are or are not present in certain SKUs, despite the fact that they are hardwired to the system unlike the HDD size.

Now, if Microsoft would only make it that easy, I wouldn't want a PS3 so much. Why should I pay $90 for a 20GB HDD when I can buy my own 120GB HDD for $60?


RE: Not qute a price cut
By BZDTemp on 7/15/2008 5:56:39 PM , Rating: 3
I don't see Sony masking what they are doing. It's more most of the press and the users which focus on HD size. No wonder really since the 360 was out first and thought every casual user/report the difference between models was the HD.

That Microsoft can get away with over pricing the HD so much is beyond me. Especially since Sony makes it so easy to swap even providing the instructions with their machine.

But I've seen Microsoft offering a XBOX connect cable (a plain 6ft patch cable only black) for a huge premium not to mention their use of different shaped USB ports and what-not.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By SiliconJon on 7/15/2008 6:17:25 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps they're moving the backwards compatability of the software emulation to a new hard drive size standard. It is getting hard to keep track, eh. That's going to tick people off that don't follow along but were looking for features once present in the 80GB but no more.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By afkrotch on 7/15/2008 11:38:28 PM , Rating: 2
If Sony were smart, they'd make turn the cardreader bay into an expansion slot. Then make the card reader a hot swappable device and create a hot swappable BC device for the slot also. They could charge like $80 for the BC device and $30 for the card reader. They could also make many other devices to plug into the slot. PS1/PS2 memory card device, PS1/PS2 controller port device with IR sensor, and I'm sure ppl can come up with other crap.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By FITCamaro on 7/16/2008 7:52:24 AM , Rating: 2
Uh...the USB ports on the 360 are just standard USB ports. The original Xbox used modified USB ports but that was because the rumble motors needed extra power.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By BansheeX on 7/15/2008 5:38:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Better equipped? Quite the opposite.


I think you're reading it wrong. A 40GB increase at the same price point IS better equipped (it may yet be a die-shrink model as well).

I would like to see more USB ports, but media ports? Gimme a break, won't be missed. With the USB, you can simply get a multi-format dongle. SACD support also won't be missed, that and DVD-audio didn't sell very well. Maybe blu-ray audio which includes music videos on the disc will be a more convincing upgrade, but it's quite clear that music is drifting towards downloads for portability and will likely not look back.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By kenferg1 on 7/15/2008 7:12:35 PM , Rating: 2
You know what kills me? It's the creamed jeans everyone gets about a PS3 with an 80GB drive. Big damn deal! Drive prices have dropped so much that they should be putting the big drives in.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By winterspan on 7/15/2008 8:29:28 PM , Rating: 1
They are "improving their profit". "better equipped" means better equipped at the same Price point. The $399 40GB PS3 doesn't have backwards compatibility or the flash card readers.

They are just boosting the harddrive to 80GB, and leaving the rest of the hardware alone.


RE: Not qute a price cut
By plonk420 on 7/16/2008 1:05:49 AM , Rating: 2
have you ever even USED the flash card readers on this PS3 you may or may not have? i used the MS Duo slot a few times at the very beginning, and the CF slot to test out a Microdrive, but other than that, i only use USB now...


My PC can spank the PS3
By Chosonman on 7/15/2008 5:14:46 PM , Rating: 2
For $500 I get a 500GB Hard Drive a better dual core CPU and a much better graphics card (ATI 4850 or Nvidia 8800GT), more system RAM, more GPU RAM, a DVD burner and PC games that are 1/2 the price of PS3 games and wireless Xbox 360 controller and PC adapter.

Not to mention a faster system overall, upgradable, and can system that can do infinitely more things.




RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By 4play on 7/15/2008 5:21:07 PM , Rating: 3
Ahhhh but can it play bluray, or PS3 games? Didn't think so.

Oh and this is coming from a 360 owner.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By bohhad on 7/16/2008 9:08:23 AM , Rating: 2
what are you on about, they've only had blu-ray drives for PCs for what, months? has it been a year yet?


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By bohhad on 7/16/2008 9:13:11 AM , Rating: 2
or maybe those are hd-dvd drives they had? i don't know, i'll stop commenting since im too poor to pay attention


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By BrownJohn on 7/15/2008 5:24:28 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, but you can't play most PS3 games.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By Complex Pants on 7/15/2008 5:42:32 PM , Rating: 2
"better dual core CPU"

No. The Cell is a very special processor designed to do a few selective things, which the PS3 has limited itself to. They are not easy to compare, but at pure number crunching the Cell behaves closer to a 6GHz+ 7 Core processor, not the little 2.5GHz dual core you are talking about. This is why folding@home is dominated by the PS3. Its all number crunching.

I agree with the computer part being in general better than the PS3, but some games are just better on a console than a PC; GTAIV, Resident Evil, Guitar Hero/Rock Band, Madden, MGS4 to name a few.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By FITCamaro on 7/16/2008 7:54:08 AM , Rating: 2
Yes but the Cell cannot do all of the works units that a PC CPU is capable of.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By jevans64 on 7/16/2008 9:55:02 AM , Rating: 2
Yep. AND a C2D usually produces 1200-2000 points per day depending on work unit. Throw in a $160 nVidia GPU and that number goes to 5000 PPD.

I have Core2 Quad systems w/ nVidia GPUs that earn 6500-9000 points per day. At 900 PPD, it would take WAY more than $1200 worth of PS3 to match 6000 PPD.

Something the PS3 will NEVER be able to do... Crysis. LOL


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By Complex Pants on 7/16/2008 2:01:48 PM , Rating: 2
I have a high end Rig too (I can max out most games and play crysis at very high at 1440x900), but that doesn't change the fact that PS3 are still the king of folding@home. It is true that a comp CPU is much better for general use, but the Cell is exceptional an floating point operations.

http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/main.py?qtype=...

Take a look at that data. Considering how long the PS3 has been around versus how long folding@home has been around for PCs, the PS3 is vastly out performing the PCs you are throwing at it. I am not saying the PS3 is better than a computer, all I am saying is that the PS3 is better at this one application.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By deeznuts on 7/15/2008 6:00:02 PM , Rating: 2
I can build a machine for 200-300 bucks, and it'll play MGS4 as well as your machine can.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By SiliconJon on 7/15/2008 6:41:25 PM , Rating: 2
But I'm tired of gaming on the PC. Granted it's served me well - the games have been beyond fantastic - I'm tired of the time & cost of maintenance involved, especially since I have kids who [ab]use it. Not to mention the increased time & cost of the builds and upgrades, and security....

Well, I've just gotten lazy with my gaming desires. I want to PLAY on my gaming system, not work, play, then work on my gaming system. My PC will be much easier to maintain and cheaper if I keep the gaming off it. But that's just my recent thought on my move from PC gaming to console.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By walk2k on 7/15/2008 8:03:16 PM , Rating: 1
Oh, so you're gonna port MGS4 to the PC now? Have fun.

Anyway, does your super awesome $300 PC include a High Def Blu-ray player, Wi-Fi, and wireless Bluetooth controller?

<crickets>


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By deeznuts on 7/16/2008 3:51:06 AM , Rating: 2
you're not too quick are you?

he said he can build a computer for 500 bux blah blah that can play games etc. i said i can build a computer for much cheaper, and it'll play mgs4 just as good as him. since mgs4 is on the PS3, that means neither of us are playing mgs4 on our PCs.

my launch 20gb ps3 has a high def blu ray player, hardware bc. no wi-fi (I only game on wired lan, and plus I don't game online anymore anyways) and wouldn't use a headset anyways. last time i tried one, was back when CS 1.6 and i felt like a nerd so i gave it up, and haven't picked one up since. one did come with my warhawk (which i sold since i found i don't game online) but i use it for my phone because California just banned cell phone talking in the car unless it's hands free.

the 20gb 360 I just picked up today has one and I won't use that either. no wifi, but again, there's a switch behind my plasma for sling, pc, ps3. i'll hook up the 360 to that. the Wii i never even watned to hook up to my switch, but i think it automatically grabbed my unsecured wifi :D I don't know, I've played it like 3 times and haven't turned it on in weeks.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By Arese on 7/16/2008 6:58:40 PM , Rating: 2
For a bit over $400 one can build a respectable PC. This PC is also better than the PS3 at f@h.

Rosewill R222-P-BK case $18
Western Digital Caviar SE 160GB $44
MSI K9VGM-V AM2 VIA K8M890 Micro $48
EVGA GeForce 8800 GS 384MB $79
Lite-on DVD/cd $14
Antec earthwatts EA380 380W $40
LITE-ON Keyboard $7
Rosewill Wired Optical Mouse $5
WINTEC AMPO 2GB RAM DDR2 $38
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Brisbane 2.3GHz $50
Microsoft Windows XP Home With SP2B $85

that is $430... so ya. Granted if you want bluray you will have to spend $550. This machine is more powerful than the PS3 (it should get around 4500 ppd vs 900) and graphics wise is much more advanced.

RSX (PS3 video card)
Maximum shader operations: 100 billion shader operations per second
24 Pixel Shaders
8 vertex shaders
Maximum texel fillrate: 12.0 GigaTexels per second
Peak pixel fillrate (theoretical): 4.4 Gigapixel per second
128-bit memory bus width
256 mb GDDR3

8800GS
Maximum shader operations: 396 billion shader operations per second
Stream Processors (Vertex + Pixel Shaders.. kinda) 96
Maximum texel fillrate: 26.4 GigaTexels per second
Peak pixel fillrate (theoretical): 6.6 Gigapixel per second
192-bit memory bus width
38.4 GB/s read and write bandwidth
384MB GDDR3

Yes there is not many exclusive PC titles anymore. (Crysis, spore (well there is a mac version of that).. and that is about it for this year. However i do not know of many games that PC is missing out on that PS3 has. The only two games i can think of are MGS and Battlefield BC.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By afkrotch on 7/17/2008 2:42:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
This PC is also better than the PS3 at f@h.


lol

Those specs would easily get stomped by a PS3 at f@h. Why? Cause the GPU isn't what's pushing F@H for the PS3. So comparing the RSX to the 8800GS is pretty moot.

Graphics wise, the PC can have better graphics, but the 8800GS is going to be so bogged down because of the crap proc. You need a balanced system to get good performance.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By Arese on 7/17/2008 11:38:39 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, but f@h does run faster on the PC. It does more work, and that is a fact.

The proc is really not crap. A 8800GTX really only needs a 2.4 Core 2, and a 8800GS is about half the speed. A 2.6 ghrz X2 is not half the speed of a 2.4 core 2, so it seams fairly balanced.

A 4600 x2 system can get 8700 in 3dmark06 compared to 10k with a core 2 quad, if you consider that bad ... so be it.

(Just to let you know the PS3 is less ballanced than this PC. It has a nice CPU with a 7600-7800-7900 hybrid thing. The best 3dmark scores for a 7900GTXs are almost never higher than 6k with top of the line core 2s )


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By chick0n on 7/15/08, Rating: -1
RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By afkrotch on 7/16/2008 12:14:54 AM , Rating: 2
Why not provide some links? Cause I sure as hell don't see how you can build something like that for $500.

Price Quotes off Newegg (rounded up to nearest dollar)

500 gig hdd - $75
8800GT 512 meg - $140 or 4850 - $188 (cheapest available)
A64 X2 4400+ - $47 or C2D E4600 - $120
2 x 256 meg DDR2-533 - $10
dvd burner - $23
360 wireless controller - $40
360 wireless gaming receiver for Windows - $17

So we are at $352 up to $473 for a partial build. Still need a case, power supply, keyboard, mouse, and Windows. Those parts are the cheapest parts I found on Newegg and I know a system with such low specs wouldn't look anywhere near as good as either the 360 or PS3.

If you build a $500 PC, it won't be a faster system than either the 360 or PS3, it will be upgradeable over the consoles, and the PS3 can run Linux, so it'll do anything a PC can do.

Just a sidenote also, new PC game is around $50. New console game is around $60. Maybe you should do your math again, cause I'm not seeing this 1/2 the price.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By Chosonman on 7/16/2008 12:25:28 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe you're not looking hard enough
Kung Fu Panda
PS3 $49.99/PC $19.99

Grid
PS3 $59/PC $39

Lego Indiana Jones
PS3 $50/PC $29

"So we are at $352 up to $473"
You said it... Thanks for proving me right. Cheers..


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By afkrotch on 7/16/2008 12:48:03 AM , Rating: 2
Umm...you listed 1 game that is 1/2 the price of a PS3 game. The rest are not.

And not sure exactly where I helped prove you right. That $352 to $473 isn't even a complete machine. The incomplete parts list even with the necessary parts to complete it, wouldn't match either the PS3/360 in performance anyways.

Thanks for having no reading comprehension.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By Complex Pants on 7/16/2008 3:26:58 AM , Rating: 2
you left out the motherboard that can support all of that. Add another $50-80 to that total. Any decent PSU will also be $50+, windows is at least $80. I just built a rig for my mom, designed to be a super budget build and it came out to $580, and that is no where a gaming machine that can run games at 1920x1080 (1080i/p).

For what they do, Xbox 360 and PS3 are good values.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By afkrotch on 7/16/2008 6:00:10 AM , Rating: 2
Ya, just noticed I forgot to put in the mobo on the list of stuff needed to complete that comp. Me personally, I'd say at least $1000 to build a computer that could compete with the PS3 or 360 in gaming prowess.

If you spend less, you'd end up having to sacrifice on graphics somewhere along the line.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By kelmon on 7/16/2008 3:46:36 AM , Rating: 2
That's wonderful news. Now find someone who cares.

You appear to be under the impression that a PC is a replacement for a PS3 and that someone interested in a PS3 would be prepared to build/buy a PC instead. What you have specified is something that belongs in an office rather than the living room. Further, the PS3 is not really upgradeable for the simple reason that it doesn't need to be - games on the PS3 tomorrow will run just as well on hardware bought today as games today. And, let's be honest here, the user experience isn't going to be on the same level, is it? Basically, you are suggesting a complicated solution to a simple problem.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By robinthakur on 7/16/2008 11:05:34 AM , Rating: 2
You also get a system where most games do not get released for it. PC Gaming is a dying format. Whilst it can do more things I grant you that, for pure gaming its an argument that's unwinnable. THis didn't used to be the case but it is now with lots of developers not releasing games on pc format.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By Complex Pants on 7/16/2008 2:41:07 PM , Rating: 2
As long as WoW and blizzard are around, it will not die. WoW generates something like $1.2B in income and is more addictive than crack. Also there are many more computers in the world than PS3/Xbox/Wii's. So companies will continue to develop for them and the enthusiasts will build high end rigs to squeeze everything possible from the games.

I know I am dying to get my hands on Diablo 3, and I can only imagine how excited Korea is about Starcraft II. I agree that the days of fighting and sports games are dying or dead on the PC. However, the days of MMO's, RPG's, RTS's and FPS's are far from dead. In the next few years, you will have Warhammer Online, WoW Expansion, Starcraft II, Diablo II, Dawn of War II, Spore, and a proported new MMO from Blizzard. Computer gaming is going to live on for a long while after those games rake in some serious money.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By afkrotch on 7/17/2008 2:51:54 AM , Rating: 2
PC Gaming is hardly dying. You have many countries that can't afford to buy an expensive console, but sure can get a cheap PC.

S.Korea. Because consoles came out during the time when S.Korea hated Japan, they didn't adopt consoles. They turned to PC gaming. Over the years since then, not much has changed. They are still very much PC gamers and not console gamers.

China seems to have followed suit. Japan is very much both PC and console gamers. Go to Akihabara Electronic District and you'll find a lot more PC games than you will console games.

Also what developers stopped making PC games and only make console games, after the 360/PS3 came out? I only see them going multiplatform.


RE: My PC can spank the PS3
By omnicronx on 7/16/2008 11:32:19 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
For $500 I get a 500GB Hard Drive a better dual core CPU and a much better graphics card (ATI 4850 or Nvidia 8800GT), more system RAM, more GPU RAM, a DVD burner and PC games that are 1/2 the price of PS3 games and wireless Xbox 360 controller and PC adapter.
Congrats! you get to buy games a year after I have played and beaten them. You also get to upgrade your system at least twice in the next 4 years, but then again, you will need something to do while you are waiting for games so it all works out..

I was a PC gamer for a good 10 years (during the glory days), and I was tired of having to constantly upgrade my computer just to play the latest games. I now have 4 perfectly good paperweights within the last 6 years because of it.. It was barely acceptable when hardware release cycles were 1- 1 1/2 years, but now that it is every 4-5 months, its just ridiculous.


PS2 backwards compability
By Freddo on 7/15/2008 5:00:42 PM , Rating: 4
I would have been happier if I had seen the return of the PS2 backwards compability, than a larger HD (which one can easily replace oneself).




RE: PS2 backwards compability
By WTFiSJuiCE on 7/15/2008 8:47:47 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I would've been happier had they kept the EE in.

Wait, I have a 6 year old PS2 that still runs as good as they day i took it outta th box, oh well guess i'll (keep) using that. =\


RE: PS2 backwards compability
By cmdrdredd on 7/15/2008 11:48:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I would have been happier if I had seen the return of the PS2 backwards compability, than a larger HD (which one can easily replace oneself).


Then go buy a Ps2. I don't get why people want to play PS2 games on a PS3.


RE: PS2 backwards compability
By afkrotch on 7/16/2008 12:37:54 AM , Rating: 3
The only reason why I'd see someone would want this is simplicity. Less crap connected to your tv, theatre system, and wall outlets.

It would be nice to have, but not a requirement for me. My setup is like this...

37" JVC LCD HDTV
US Xbox 360
Japanese Xbox 360
Japanese PS3
Japanese PS2 (new slim)
US PS2 (old style)
JVC DVD Home Theatre System

Needless to say, it's a wire jungle on the floor. I have a US PS2 for my US games, as the Japanese PS3 won't play them. I have a Japanese PS2, as the Japanese PS3 doesn't support PS2 controllers and 3rd party adapters don't work on my controllers.

If the PS3 were completely region free and had ports for PS2 controllers, I'd get rid of both my PS2s right now. Less clutter.


RE: PS2 backwards compability
By Complex Pants on 7/16/2008 3:28:39 AM , Rating: 2
That is a lot of systems connected. With all of that I have to wonder...no Wii?


RE: PS2 backwards compability
By afkrotch on 7/16/2008 6:06:45 AM , Rating: 2
Nothing in the Wii inventory interests me. Only game that even somewhat peaks my interest is Smash Brothers, but one game isn't gonna be enough for me to purchase a system.

http://www.afkrotch.com/Random_Pics/Comp/DSC00144....
http://www.afkrotch.com/Random_Pics/Comp/DSC00145....
http://www.afkrotch.com/Random_Pics/Comp/DSC00143....
http://www.afkrotch.com/Random_Pics/Comp/DSC00142....

It's a mess by my tv, because of all the electronics. Actually my whole room is a mess of electronics. Surprised the circuit breaker holds up.

I have to use four 220v to 110v transforms too, since Germans push 220v.


RE: PS2 backwards compability
By Complex Pants on 7/16/2008 2:09:33 PM , Rating: 2
I must say I am impressed. That is a lot of hardware. I understand how you feel about the Wii. I like mine, but I definitely feel the lack of games from time to time. I really only use my Wii for Wii Sports, Smash Bros and Guitar Hero III. I will say that Resident Evil 4 was very nice on it. I find the Wii a bit gimmicky these days, but it has its place. Right now I am debating buying a PS3 in the near future, partially for the Blu-Ray and DVD up-converting.


Consoles
By BioHazardous on 7/15/2008 5:11:35 PM , Rating: 3
So a little background for starters: I never owned a PS or PS2, I also swore I'd never buy a PS3 back when I was also supporting HD-DVD over Blu-Ray. I did buy a Wii just to have something fun to play drinking games with.

I have a 40GB and the 40GB if you're at all into gaming isn't enough storage for the PS3 games' base install sizes.

I only have a few games so it's not that critical to me, but it's nice to see the size increase, though an 80GB drive is still small relative to the market today.

I'm also not entirely sure why the first people to post are typically against the PS3. If you don't like the PS3 and won't ever buy one, why bother reading the articles related to the PS3? Unless your sole purpose on DT is to complain.




RE: Consoles
By akugami on 7/15/2008 5:35:48 PM , Rating: 2
I've been very critical of the PS3 as some readers may or may not recall but I broke down with the Wal-Mart $100 Gift Card offer and bought a MGS bundle.

PS3 is still one pricey piece of hardware though.


RE: Consoles
By deeznuts on 7/15/2008 6:02:32 PM , Rating: 2
I have a launch 20GB, and installs have been no problem for me.

I might add I don't play games after I beat them, so I just delete the installs when I'm done.

An upgrade may be in order, but I'd rather spend that 75-100 bucks towards the 360 I'm going to buy this week. yes, another 20gb'er


RE: Consoles
By walk2k on 7/15/2008 8:07:48 PM , Rating: 2
I had a 20GB also, replaced it with a 160GB. With all my music and a few HD movies on it, plus tons of downloaded games and demos, plus "install" files - really there's only a couple of games that install anything of significant size - I've never come close to using it all. If I deleted the movies and music I'd have no problem with a 20GB drive, let alone 40 or 80.

They don't make 250-320GB models because A) the drives are expensive and B) the majority of people would never need that. Hell even with the movie downloads announced today I don't think those stay on the HDD for very long anyway.


RE: Consoles
By FITCamaro on 7/16/2008 7:47:57 AM , Rating: 2
I picked a 250GB hard drive up for my PS3 for $80. Hardly very expensive.


RE: Consoles
By deeznuts on 7/16/2008 1:30:56 PM , Rating: 2
Of course not. But if you add that to the PS3 which was already selling at a loss, and multiply by 10 million units sold a fiscal year, tell your shareholders they weren't expensive.


Way too high for specs, still
By Stratocaster on 7/15/2008 4:59:09 PM , Rating: 2
As Sony introduces its talent-rich PS3 as a centerpiece media source for homes why do they still provide different sku's with 250 GB or 320 GB storage. If size matters at all.

Keep your mainstream with reasonable 80 gig one, But I think they can provide a 250gig model as movies and other media is not only rental, also for purchase.

I wonder why do I have to do this painful customisation steps to replace my hdd with a 250gig one. I think this price is reasonable only for this kind of large stoarge.




By jordanclock on 7/15/2008 5:06:06 PM , Rating: 3
You can buy your own 2.5" drive and put it in the PS3. The manual includes directions on how to do this. In fact, if the 40GB would drop to $299, you could buy a 250GB HDD for the difference in price between it and the 80GB PS3.


RE: Way too high for specs, still
By elmikethemike on 7/15/2008 5:08:34 PM , Rating: 2
They don't offer a 250GB+ HDD SKU because it'll run you another $90-$130. Then everyone will complain about how expensive it is. An 80GB drive seems reasonable enough - It's not too small, not too big.

Replacing the HDD is nothing more than a matter of undoing 5 screws, replacing it, and then tightening 5 screws. It's about as painless as it could possibly be.


RE: Way too high for specs, still
By afkrotch on 7/16/2008 12:25:06 AM , Rating: 2
Ya, I replace my 60 gig hdd with a Seagate 160 gig. I was amazed to see that the 60 gig hdd that was in the PS3 was a Seagate also. Not some cheap off brand hdd, like Samsung or some crap.

As he mentioned, replacing the hdd is super easy. If you put shaped blocks into their corresponding shaped holes, you can replace a PS3s hdd. It'll take like 1-5 mins to do.


Ok so can someone answer this for me please..
By callmeroy on 7/16/2008 12:37:07 PM , Rating: 2
Why do we care, or rather why do so many of you give a crap about which console sells more?

Why do we care if we can build a PC with the same or less money as a console and still out perform it?

Why does ANYONE give a crap if I prefer PC over XBOX or PS3 over Wii, etc?

Seriously WHY the f**k do we care?




By joemoedee on 7/16/2008 5:47:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why do we care, or rather why do so many of you give a crap about which console sells more?


I take it you haven't spent much time on a forum, be it an oldschool BBS or internet forums as we know it today. The sole purpose is to either:

Flame
Debate
Argue

It all harkens back to the school time debate of "My dad is better than your dad!"

The console debate really goes back to SNES vs Sega Genesis, and probably will continue on for years to come. Some debaters will make sense, most won't. It's an on-line tradition. :)

Me personally, I want to see them both thrive. I also believe the market can support 3 consoles, as it has shown last generation. I don't own either, but if MS continues to show increased durability with the console, drops the price some more, and continues their steady stream of impressive titles, I'm leaning their direction.


300$ ps3, blue ray for the masses
By nerdye on 7/15/2008 4:49:25 PM , Rating: 3
I just couldn't turn down a 300$ ps3, thats for sure.




BC is important to some
By Oroka on 7/16/2008 12:19:36 AM , Rating: 3
I remember the day I got a Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) and my Atari started gathering dust. I still have and occasionally play my NES, and I am currently playing a PSX game (MGS), and them moving on to MGS2 and MGS3 before I buy MGS4. I paid the extra $100 for the backwards compatibility and got the 80GB model with Motorstorm.

Some first time buyers might not care (ie kids), but more mature gamers need the BC. Even if it costs more, they should have a premium unit that retains BC.




Damn
By FITCamaro on 7/15/2008 5:28:34 PM , Rating: 2
I wish they'd do this sooner. If they drop the price of the 40GB PS3 in the next 2 weeks, I can go back to Best Buy and get the difference.




not 100% sure but...
By Hafgrim on 7/15/2008 5:35:23 PM , Rating: 2
I think I saw a stack of PS3 that included metalgear-rumble-pad bundle in some Florida Bestbuy stores for 399 not 499 and almost got one yesterday. Anyway heres a link to the bundle online that I looked up to be sure if I should even post this or if my eyes had deceived me. I still think i saw a 399 price on it though in store.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9999...

Good luck it might still priced that way tho. I think it musta been a secret sale. Might want to drop by Bestbuy if your feelin lucky. =)




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