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Roadrunner Supercomputer  (Source: IBM)
Roadrunner supercomputer is first to break petaflop barrier

A new supercomputer in the U.S. has broken a barrier that many thought wouldn’t be broken for years to come. A new supercomputer-- dubbed Roadrunner-- has broken the petaflop barrier.

Roadrunner was designed by engineers and scientists at IBM and the Los Alamos National Laboratory. Ultimately, Roadrunner will be placed into a classified environment where it will be used to simulate what effects aging has on the stockpile of nuclear weapons the U.S. has in its arsenal. The problem it will work on is modeling how aging nuclear weapons behave the first fraction of a second during an explosion. Before beginning its nuclear weapons research, Roadrunner will be used to model the effects of global warming.

The Roadrunner supercomputer costs $133 million and is built using chips from both consumer electronics and more common server processors.

Roadrunner has 12,960 chips that are an improved version of the Cell chip used in the PS3. These Cell processors act as a turbocharger for certain portions of the calculations the Roadrunner processes. The computer also uses a smaller, unspecified number of AMD Opteron processors.

A computer researcher from the University of Tennessee, Jack Dongarra told the New York Times, “This [breaking the petaflop barrier] is equivalent to the four-minute mile of supercomputing.”

Horst Simon from the Lawrence Berkley National Laboratory said, “Roadrunner tells us about what will happen in the next decade. Technology is coming from the consumer electronics market and the innovation is happening first in terms of cell phones and embedded electronics.”

Technology first appearing in the consumer electronics market and then making its way into supercomputing is a stark contrast to a process that commonly works in the exact opposite manner.

In total, Roadrunner has 116,640 processing cores and the real challenge for programmers is figuring out how to keep all of those processing cores in use simultaneously to get the best performance. Roadrunner requires about 3 megawatts of power, or about enough electricity to run a large shopping center.

To put the processing power in perspective, Thomas P. D’Agostino of the National Nuclear Security Administration said that if all 6 billion people on Earth entered calculations on a calculator for 24 hours a day, seven days per week it would take 46 years to do what Roadrunner can do in one day.

How Roadrunner is cooled is unknown, IBM has recently moved to liquid cooling for its supercomputers, but Roadrunner appears to be air cooled.

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It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By FITCamaro on 6/9/2008 4:59:32 PM , Rating: 1
Man-made global warming still isn't real.

By Seemonkeyscanfly on 6/9/2008 5:07:00 PM , Rating: 5
sure it is, Have you not listened to Al Gore explain that the 37,000 scientist that disagree with him are all wrong.... He clears everything right up. The solution is very simple. Just make your check out to KYMG (kiss your money goodbye) and send it in to Al Gore's office in DC or one of his many homes. He will take care of the rest.

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By mcmilljb on 6/9/08, Rating: -1
RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By Relion on 6/9/08, Rating: -1
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 6/9/2008 5:21:04 PM , Rating: 5
Why are people that tell jokes disgusting? Just because you don't like it, does not make him disgusting. Twisted maybe but not disgusting.

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By Relion on 6/9/08, Rating: -1
By InternetGeek on 6/9/2008 7:00:58 PM , Rating: 5
If we follow that road, there soon won't be much jokes left.

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By ShowTim3 on 6/10/2008 10:30:25 AM , Rating: 2
Cheap humor will always be easy to get, don't worry about that, you'll get your portion of it. Smart humor is a little harder to find tho.

Well...I guess to get a higher rating I ll start to do humor about dead soldiers in Iraq or things like this:

Not ! But I guess there's ppl that can do it....and they may even get a positive rating on these forums. Just a shame....I guess it is the american way...

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By geddarkstorm on 6/10/2008 1:04:59 PM , Rating: 2
It's one thing to make light of tragedies that are actually happening, than it is to make absurd jokes about things that'll never happen. Unless Iran starts nuking everyone in its corner of the world, no one (save maybe Israel) is going to nuke it.

People need to lighten up, then there wouldn't be so many wars in this world.

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By Relion on 6/10/2008 6:21:46 PM , Rating: 2
Well...exactly my point, only that we differ. You see it as an absurdity, but I don't see it like that, US military abusing other countries is just real, you like it or not.

"People need to lighten up, then there wouldn't be so many wars in this world."
I can't agree more with this, lovely words, it's a shame our leaders don't think the same...

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By Reclaimer77 on 6/10/2008 7:22:28 PM , Rating: 1
"People need to lighten up, then there wouldn't be so many wars in this world. I can't agree more with this, lovely words, it's a shame our leaders don't think the same..."

For once I agree with a hippie !

People DO need to lighten up. Namely those sexually repressed third world wifebeating womanizing terrorizing suicide bombing Koran reading mass murdering plane hijacking maniac Muslims.

Lets start with them first. I think when you riot and kill people because of a cartoon drawing, you automatically get moved to first on the list of those who need to " lighten up ".

Our leaders didn't start this. Do your best to keep forgetting that though.

By wjobs55 on 6/11/2008 12:58:40 AM , Rating: 2
Doing our best to forget won't help when our Jewish friends are always reminding us. But on another note we really should attack Iran and make our Jewish friend israel safer so none of her citizens has to die. We have the population to sustain any casualties. Israel doesn't because it has so small a population and always losing its people.

By pxavierperez on 6/12/2008 5:47:54 PM , Rating: 2
er, our leaders did start this. retake that history class you flunked awhile back.

By wjobs55 on 6/11/2008 1:00:36 AM , Rating: 2
Actually it does. What a frakking GENIOUS.

By sporr on 6/10/2008 2:53:56 AM , Rating: 2
Give them time, and they will be dropping them on YOU.

By MrBlastman on 6/9/2008 5:30:19 PM , Rating: 2
The question is - would there be any left to ask?

We'd be better off just measuring the glass density.

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By Fluxion on 6/9/08, Rating: -1
RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By jimbojimbo on 6/9/2008 6:09:25 PM , Rating: 2
Think about this. Rising temperatures extract CO2 from the oceans. Now if the high levels of CO2 in the air continue to propel a global warming, it will make even more CO2 get released into the atmosphere. As more CO2 gets released temperatures will rise even quicker. In essence temperatures should rise at an exponential rate until the earth basically looks like Mars. Funny though how temperatures will continue to increase and decrease and CO2 levels continually change.

I think it's childish for anybody to think that the sun burns at an absolute constant level or that any fluctuation it may have has no effect whatsoeveron our planet. It only, you know, gives the planet life.

By teldar on 6/9/2008 6:31:47 PM , Rating: 2
Thanks Jimbojimbo

There is quite a bit we don't really know about the way the entire earth works. Climate included. Don't know for sure why people don't look at a little more info than what the politicians spew out about global warming as it's NOT PROVEN. It's a theory.
And all the calculations are based on 80 year old equations and models.

It's time we woke up as a race (and country) and saw that yes, we may be making a difference, but we don't know exactly how much.


RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By EvilBlitz on 6/10/2008 1:47:39 AM , Rating: 2
Actually rising CO2 levels cause the oceans to absorb more CO2 and not give off CO2.
As the ocean absorbs more CO2 it becomes more acidic.
The increased acidity reduces the amount of carbonate available to sealife that depends on it(shell fish, diatoms, coral etc). Screwing with the bottom of the food chain is generally bad.
Also anyone whos actually owned an aquarium of some sorts knows how pH changes can change your fish bowl to a death bowl.

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By geddarkstorm on 6/10/2008 1:14:05 PM , Rating: 4
The Ordovician Period (~488.3 mya) had CO2 levels around 12x higher than today, an ice age, and also an explosion of marine diversity known as the Ordovician radiation. I seriously doubt we actually understand how the planet works. Not to mention, CO2 levels of a measly 380ppm as they are today is nothing compared to the sheer volume of the ocean and the amount of calcium that is absorbed into constantly through mineral deposition from rivers, shore lines, and simple water action from the tides.

The only thing rising CO2 levels really do is help the plants, as plant growth rate is rate limited by CO2 fixation which is dependent on the concentration of CO2 in the air.

By EvilBlitz on 6/11/2008 1:18:23 AM , Rating: 2
I know they have been higher, but the problem is more the rapidity of the rise.
Global warming could be a crock, but considering how we are thrashing the enviroment I would rather we just try and take a little more care, nothing drastic is needed.

Also Im more worried because a vast percentage of humanity lives close to the shoreline, and with all the other pressures from overfishing to excess fertiliser runoff it could seriously damage many communities livelihoods.

Below is a good link

Note that of late there has been increasingly large "dead spots" off the californian coast and even the starvation of whales. Now this could be due to other reason, but I would prefer we get in and have a good look instead of alot of this fence sitting people are doing.

By Indianapolis on 6/9/2008 7:50:23 PM , Rating: 1
I think the "dumbest thing I've read yet" is your rebuttal.

Your arguments for human participation in global warming are slightly less than compelling when even you are forced to admit that (1) humans have a minuscule, if any, effect on global temperature fluctuations and that (2) the earth is actually cooling.

Anybody who has done any amount of policy research can tell you that throwing money at programs based primarily on public opinion and knee-jerk reactions invariably end up wasting precious resources, time, and energy. More often than not such ill-conceived policies cause more damage than doing nothing. Just look at how our criminal justice system is benefiting from all the demands for "get tough" policies.

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By Reclaimer77 on 6/9/2008 9:58:01 PM , Rating: 2
I can't understand how any intelligent individual can honestly say that a portion of global warming isn't due to humanity.

I'm a global warming agnostic. I concede that we are having some effect on the environment. But before I sign up for changes that effect my quality of life, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove its actually a significant threat.

Fact is despite computer models, research, and a fair amount of propoganda ; scientist are no closer now to proving the threat of man-made global warming than they were ten years ago. In fact most recent discoveries directly challenge the theory of made made global warming. So what did these " scientist do " ? Instead of giving it up they changed it to " Global Climate Change " crisis. Same old fear mongering in a shiny new wrapper.

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By mcturkey on 6/9/08, Rating: -1
RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By Reclaimer77 on 6/9/2008 11:43:32 PM , Rating: 3
Why do you take such a short view?

Its the only one that makes sense right now.

If the scientists are right and we are having a significant effect on the global climate, but you refuse to do anything to prevent significant changes until there is "proof", it may well be too late.

I'm just one guy. I can't change the world. Go peddel your guilt trip to someone who gives a damn.

The consequences of refusing to make changes to our emissions output and resource consumption if in fact global warming is being caused by us are too disastrous to ignore. Better to play it on the safe side and change what needs to be changed.

Baseless fear mongering. Just how far are you willing to go to make changes based on " what ifs " ? Better yet, how far do you make everyone else go and what steps will you take to get there ?

Man Made global warming is a religion, and I'm choosing to remain a Global Warming Agnostic. The burden of proof is on you and those like you to convert me. Good luck.

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By Polynikes on 6/10/2008 12:51:14 AM , Rating: 2
So, if we follow the "better safe than sorry" idea... We should create a giant space defense system in case invading aliens show up some day, because there's a chance of there being intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. They may not show up for 6,000 years, but hey, at least we'll be safe.

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By EvilBlitz on 6/10/08, Rating: 0
RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By Reclaimer77 on 6/10/2008 2:08:43 AM , Rating: 3
Thats rediculous. The difference between not doing something and doing something is a few % of world GDP(oh no we lose a bit of money and we have a cleaner enviroment if they are wrong what a tragedy!)and possibly famine, displacement of masses of people, loss of biodiversity etc if they are right. Sounds like a no brainer to me.

If only it were that simple. You view the world through a child's eyes, which leads me to assume you are one.

The fact that you don't want to err on the side of caution just for the sake of possibly making a few more dollars per person in the world without thinking of anyone who comes after you makes you a greedy and selfish bastard.

Typical emotionally based tactic. Using the future children as human shields for your viewpoint. How is he being a greedy bastard exactly ? Is he in politics ? Is he the one stopping your fantasy from becoming a reality ? No. We don't need your childish personal attacks to discuss this rationally.

How about people like you stop pointing fingers and shut the hell up ? Tell me, what are YOU doing personally to make this planet a better place ? Its easy to curse someone else out than it is to look at your own affairs. I doubt you contribute ANY less to " global warming " then he does you loud mouthed hypocrite. People like you are all talk !

By EvilBlitz on 6/11/2008 1:38:23 AM , Rating: 1
Now I am not convinced that global warming is true, but I do believe we are trashing the crap out of our enviroment and we should TRY to be cleaner. Or maybe once the kudzu has overgrown all your forests and the didymo has choked all your rivers you might do something?

You accuse me of using ad hominem tactics then use NOTHING BUT ad hominem tactics as a rebuttal. Talk about pot calling the kettle black.

I dont see what is wrong doing something for my ch
ildren or future generations. Do you plan to leave anything or are u going to make sure they don't even have enough to cover the funeral?
Ever heard of family trusts? Why do people use them? Apart from tax evasion, normally its to provide for the future of the family. Trusts address financial security, what is wrong with a little more enviromental security?
I would like my kids to swim in the same rivers, and fish the same beaches. I dont want them to be turned away by a river clogged with didymo, or a beach unable to be used because of toxic algae bloom, "dead spots" from excessive fertiliser run off etc
You might be a f**k you Jack im right, but I care about not just my children, but all the worlds future generations, we have to share this planet, deal with it.

What am I doing personally? OK since you asked.
1) I walk to work every day now(good for my wallet and health too)
2) I use only energy efficient lightbulbs and appliances, I also turn them off instead of leaving them on standby. Hence I have a smaller powerbill, it saves me money and isnt hard to do.
3) I recycle as much as my paper and plastic as I possibly can. I also avoid purchasing products with excessive packaging or that use unrecyclable plastics.
4) I don't use plastic shopping bags. Not that hard to buy a couple of cloth ones and reuse them.
5)I try to eat more vegetables, fruits, cereals, and less meat and dairy. Meat and dairy are far more energy and land instensive. This is harder though, esp since meat and dairy taste so good.

And last but not least, I have done all that same stuff at work as I do at home. Also our workplace actually asks for ideas to reduce our enviromental impact. I have even been asked for suggestions for the new custom lab we are building so it is much more enviromentally friendly.

If I was was richer/owned my own house, I would also invest in more insulation and solar water heating and possibly micro generation(dependant on house location).

None of these are really that hard. The only thing easier is not giving a shit and sitting on the fence and doing nothing.

By StevoLincolnite on 6/10/2008 2:19:39 AM , Rating: 2
Look at it this way, the Planet is our Home, yet we don't live in houses, full of rubbish, cow paddies giving off methane, Nuclear waste in the Basement, thus why should our "Larger" Backyard (Backyard being Earth) should be any different?

I don't really know much about the whole Global warming issue, and whether it's happening or not, but seriously, I don't want my future Grand Children running around in a dump, and neither should any other self respecting person.

And doing *Something* About it, rather than nothing is better in the long run in m opinion, there would only be so far where we can drop toxic chemical's into the oceans, and rivers before they become to far polluted that we cant use them to water crops, and drink from.

For Instance, the Great Barrier Reef, is the largest Coral Reef on the planet, yet Sugar Can Farmers have all the run off going out to sea, these high-levels of pollutants, are killing the reef, bleaching the Corals, and just making it completely un-pleasant, I went on a Holiday there when I was younger and thoroughly enjoyed it, I would love to have my Great Grand Children go there and enjoy the same things that I did, but at the rate it's being destroyed that may not happen.

By tastyratz on 6/10/2008 8:50:26 AM , Rating: 3
and your right with other issues. we have a lot better things to do than worry about global warming, were trashing the planet in so many other ways.

Hippies just like to hyperfocus on global warming because the human race is to arrogant and elitist to accept the fact that the difference we make is in insignificant proportions.
Mankind cant accept the idea of it being out of our great and powerful control.

By EvilBlitz on 6/10/2008 2:02:35 AM , Rating: 2
Considering how complex this all is waiting for it to be proved beyond doubt generally will mean waiting till its too late(if they are right).
At many points in time you have to rely on educated guesses.

As for doing nothing that makes no sense at all. The earlier we make change the less drastic that change will have to be than if we leave it till later. Something called planning ahead?

One guy cant change anything? Rubbish, history is littered with examples of one man making a difference. Beside of which a good quote is "a waterfall starts but with 1 drop of water and look what comes from that."
Considering how some of the possible changes you could make actually save you money and or could make you healthier(eg energy efficient lightbulbs or just walking to the shop 500 meters down the road etc) you sounds very stubborn and lazy.

Baseless fear mongering? What would you do, sugarcoat all the possiblities and make it sound like something bad will happen but in the nicest possible way? I guarantee you if you do that you never EVER get a response.

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By CloudFire on 6/10/08, Rating: 0
RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By Reclaimer77 on 6/10/2008 1:00:59 AM , Rating: 2
Man Cloud there is so much wrong with your post I don't even know where to start. First off, thanks for putting the " failure of man as a species " sqarely on my shoulders. I mean really, are you for real ?

surely, the millions of tons of green house gases pumped out each year from factories and our cars has no significant threat.

Which is dwarfed in comparison to the greehouse gases caused from water vapor ! Something we simply cannot prevent.

people never believed we could have taken to the air. WRONG!people said we could never go to the moon. WRONG!
people believed we would have never taken the transistor to a microscopic level. WRONG!

Speaking of wrong. Are you actually comparing these scientific and inventive breakthroughs to being skeptical of the " imminent doom " of Global Warming ? Your joking right !?

Oh and you do realize flying planes and going to space pumps billions of tons of " deadly " greenhouse gases into the atmosphere ? Shame on you for not even finding " green " examples !

it's people like you that make me sick. why do we have to prove anything to you?

You don't. Just live your life and I'll live mine. But thats not good enough for you is it ?

there are many millions of people around the world who are helping to make this place a better to live for our future generation.

Like who ? Those who would use Global Warming to push a socialist agenda that will leave future generations with trillions in debt, weak economies, skyrocketing food costs and dwindling economic freedom all under the banner of " saving the planet " ?

And honestly, if you expect to be taken seriously you could actually learn to capitalize your sentences once in a while. But not a single one ?

By AlmostExAMD on 6/10/2008 4:06:52 AM , Rating: 2

"Like who ? Those who would use Global Warming to push a socialist agenda that will leave future generations with trillions in debt, weak economies, skyrocketing food costs and dwindling economic freedom all under the banner of " saving the planet " ?"

Ummm turn on the tv, All those above statements u just made are actually happening right now,LOL.

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By Aloonatic on 6/10/2008 4:55:03 AM , Rating: 3
I'll be honest. I am not a believer in "Man Mad Global Warming" and "climate change" either, at least not to the levels that pop stars and politicians mite like us to believe.

If it is true, then climate change as a stick to beat the masses with is being over used on this side of the pond (UK) rather shamefully, to the extent that most people now believe that this environmental fear-mongering is just an excuse by politicians to raise taxes and pass legislation in the best interests of the ruling and owning classes.

If you want to buy a 4x4/people carrier at the end of this year you're going to have to pay a hefty "sales-room tax" in the thousands of pounds as well as a great deal of road tax around the £500 all in the name of the environment. This will be for cars that you bought up to 5 years ago as well???

People might believe in this if the money that is being raised in the name of the environment is going towards projects and such to mitigate the effects of "climate change" that are happened now such as flooding (which have nothing to do with greedy house building companies exploiting the house price boom and building on cheap flood planes, oh no) and future projects for lower carbon energy production in the future.

I will start to believe in these causes when:

1) The British parliament is moved from the banks of the Themes and docklands flats start to fall in price for reasons other than over supply.

2) Pop stars and celebrities sell their numerous and huge homes and live in new homes that do not have many many empty rooms being heated and powered for no reason and the stop flying stylists and the little handbag dogs around the world, or curries from Wales to New York just because they can.

3) Evacuation plans for Holland are made public.

4) Measures for curbing CO2 production are not simply fines and charges but actual bans, so that the message is not that it is OK to "destroy the environment" as long as you can afford it.

All this reducing carbon usage talk has nothing to do with the diminishing easily available oil in the world of course. It's just a big coincidence and the reason for the "pain" that people are feeling in their pockets has nothing to do wit grossly miss managed public finances and energy security plans, oh no, it's the environment stupid.

By FITCamaro on 6/10/2008 8:08:14 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly. It astounds me how many people lack basic common sense. "Oh well the celebrities and Al Gore are saying its happening so it must be true". That seems to be the mentality of these idgets. Nevermind that they live in giant mansions, fly around the world on a whim, throw giant parties and banquets that consume tons of electricity and what not for stupid crap, and have one hybrid but also several other luxury sport cars that get 5 mpg(or they buy that $100,000+ Lexus hybrid that still gets like 10 mpg).

Man-made global warming is nothing other than a scam. Its an excuse for people to make free money, its an excuse for scientists to get research grants, and its an excuse for a government to tax you to pay for socialist programs.

I should just start selling carbon credits. I'll make up a nice little piece of paper. Make it look pretty, like a stock or something. Buy 1000 carbon credits, get 1000 pieces of paper saying you did (and the rich would buy them oblivious of the fact that a tree was cut down to make those 1000 pieces of paper). Then I'll pay some people in a 3rd world country to plant some trees. Or I'll make up a standard that 1000 carbon credits = 1 tree and plant them here in the US somewhere.

By Reclaimer77 on 6/10/2008 4:26:55 PM , Rating: 2
I'll be honest. I am not a believer in "Man Mad Global Warming" and "climate change" either, at least not to the levels that pop stars and politicians mite like us to believe.

Exactly. Just join me brother and say it " I am a global warming agnostic ".

After all, isn't it considered rude for a Christian to force their beliefs on agnostics ? Well, global warming is a religion too. And don't let ANYONE take away your right to be a GW Agnostic !

Global Warming Agnostics : We don't know. And neither do you !

By Westmassguy on 6/10/2008 5:53:52 AM , Rating: 2
It's ManBearPig..............Can you see it?
See I told you it was real

RE: It doesn't matter how fast the computer is
By Major HooHaa on 6/11/2008 6:12:23 AM , Rating: 1
Have you seen the size of the holes in the ozone layer?! That was caused by man-made CFCs. This proves that man can have a big effect on the Earths environment.

When it comes to fossil fuels, we have dug up millions of tons of carbon and then released it back into the atmosphere through burning. At the same time we have reduced the environments ability to soak up carbon through de-forestation. I read that tree bark is made up of roughly 70% carbon and a mature Oak holds around 1.3 tonnes of carbon*.

The view I take is that the Human race has altered practically every habitat on the planet and changed the composition of the atmosphere. Since all those habits are locked together in a delicate balance, where changes to one can affect another, then we must have had some effect on the planet.

The population of humans on the planet is vastly, artificially inflated by our technological advances. So we are now the dominant species on the planet and surely that gives us a duty of care to look after that planet. Do we really have the moral right to send other species to extinction?

Having said that, the planet Earth will certainly out live the human race.

I came across a quote saying "Did you know?- We now know that the abundance of life on Earth masks an uncomfortable geological fact. To a rough approximation, of all the species that ever lived, less than 1% are alive today!"

As for the super computer being used for climate modelling, good on you guys!

*Thanks John-of-Wem for those figures.

By Aloonatic on 6/11/2008 7:01:24 AM , Rating: 2
Just because 1 thing happened because of 1 cause it does not mean that everything happens because of it too.

The Ozone debate was well supported, proven and thus accepted by everyone and action has taken place, and things are on the mend, slowly but surely.

The main advantage that the "Ozone Depletion" problem had over "Man Made Climate Change" (MMCC) was that the solution was relatively inexpensive and did not impede on people's day to day lives too much.

Yes, replacing your refrigerator was a pain in the arse all of a sudden, and aerosols were a bit rubbish for a few years but the former was a 1 off problem and the latter was soon fixed by clever people in white coats.

MMCC on the other hand is still not proven (those lovely colour coded pictures of the polar regions showing the ozone hole where very pretty and convincing) all that well and we are so dependent on the cause of it (cheap energy) that it just plane hurts too much to change our lifestyles.

Another point I feel is worthy of mention is that the data that we have to support the MMCC argument is pretty poor and always will be until someone invents a time machine.

There is just not enough data out there, unlike the situation when debating the ozone hole. There were measured levels of Ozone and it was relatively easy to show the sudden changes and decline (along with the obvious cause) and there was very little room to argue that it was due to naturally occurring reasons and these changes are all part of a greater system.

e.g. When people talk about icecaps melting and shrinking, showing videos of them falling away they can easily be skewed to support an argument, often neglecting to show them growing again later , or even that there have been recorded growths and contractions in the ice caps for a fairly long time but they are inconvenient to the MMCC argument and thus ignored.

Suddenly we are able to measure a lot of things on a global scale (for a rediculously small amount of time in the grand scheme of how long the environment and global climate has been changing and evolving) and we have seen a slight trend occurring and panic has set in, politicians have seen a chance take advantage of public sentiment and fear and celebrities have found something to fill their day and assuage their guilt for being massively wealthy for doing very little whilst most of the world lives in absolute squalor.

What ever gets you thought the day i guess.

I just haven't been convinced, see my other post for when I will be.

"We shipped it on Saturday. Then on Sunday, we rested." -- Steve Jobs on the iPad launch
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