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Steve Jobs and Apple may have some legal maneuvering to get through with this latest lawsuit.  (Source: Reuters)

It looks like Apple's MacBooks are a few crayons short of a box of Crayolas, as they say. Their suposedly "millions of colors"-sporting display can only display 262,144 thanks to cost cutting.  (Source: Apple Inc.)
New suit goes to show be careful what you promise

Be careful your product lives up to what you advertise it to be and be careful it does what you say it will do; that's the lesson that many tech companies are learning the hard way.  Microsoft recently found that out as its facing an uphill battle to fight against a class lawsuit alleging it intentionally deceived using "Vista Capable" stickers to sell chipsets.

Now Apple is mired in a similar mess, based on some of its a bit exaggerated claims.  Apple's bold advertising claim that its MacBooks support "millions of colors." The only problem -- MacBook LCD are only 6-bit TN models, only allowing for only 262,144 colors.  A true 8-bit display would indeed support "millions of colors", 16,777,216 colors in fact.  However, Apple opted to ditch the eight bit display in favor of a cheaper 6 bit one, despite the high cost of Macs.

Apple had already been sued once over the issue.  A pair of MacBook owners, Fred Greaves and Dave Gately, filed a class action suit against Apple last May for the claim.  Most lawyers at the time dismissed the case as frivolous.  The case's own lawyers realized that they would not be able to obtain class action due to difficulty finding enough plaintiffs who bought the Macs singly on the "millions of colors" advertising, and thus pursued alternative legal action, adding to many observers cyncism on the seriousness of the suit.  The suit became even more of a joke in the legal community when it buttressed its claims with discussion board threads from apple.com support and other online fora showing customers angry about the poor LCD quality. 

The pair's representation cited numerous comments such as, "I’m so tired of dealing with Apple at this point, that I don’t have the energy or time to continue even though they’ve done everything they possibly could," one of the anonymous comments posted on Apple.com's customer support.

Despite being blown off as a frivolous suit, Greaves and Gately scored an unlikely victory against Apple.  Apple settled with the pair out of court last month, bringing the case to a close.  Part of Apple's settlement agreement was that the pair could not discuss the precise settlement terms with the press.  Thus it is uncertain exactly how much Apple paid the pair for to drop the suit and for their silence.

Apple isn't the first manufacturer to make the 6-bit versus 8-bit claim. Then AnandTech editor and present DailyTech editor Kristopher Kubicki blasted Dell, Viewsonic, Samsung and other display manufacturers for similar practices in 2004.  Most of these companies were also successfully sued for misleading consumers about the color depth of their monitors.

In 2004, AU Optoelectronics -- the largest manufacturer of 6-bit LCD panels at the time -- attempted to deflect the 6-bit claim by advertising its panels use interpolation techniques to create millions of colors.  The argument then shifted to whether or not "millions of colors" means "millions of colors at the same time."  However, interpolation techniques use more RGB cells to generate colors, and cannot really be compared to 8-bit panels.

However, the legal woes for Apple about "millions of colors" is hardly over.  Hot on the heels of the settlement, Los Angeles legal firm powerhouse, Kabateck Brown Kellner, smelled blood and filed a class action against Apple for false advertising.  The firm is well known for its pending class action suit against Network Solutions over domain name tasting and its click-fraud suit against Google, among many high profile legal actions.

Managing partner Brian Kabatech states, "Apple is duping its customers into thinking they’re buying 'new and improved' when in fact they’re getting stuck with 'new and inferior'."

Apple, no stranger to class action suits, refused to comment on the pending suit, but given their previous settlement and Kabateck Brown Kellner's shining class action track record, they surely are a bit worried.  Kabateck Brown Kellner meanwhile insists that its not just out to loot Apple; rather it states its trying to bring the consumer justice after being harmed by Apple.  The firm says it wants "to help those customers who were deceived and make sure Apple tells the truth in the future."


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My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Snuffalufagus on 4/2/2008 1:46:37 PM , Rating: 5
Say it isn't so!




RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By VashHT on 4/2/2008 2:26:56 PM , Rating: 2
Get off it man, your argument is pathetic at best. Next you're going to be saying the Intel processors for Macs are special and magically better than their PC counterparts.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By steve1014 on 4/2/2008 2:49:09 PM , Rating: 3
Just man up and admit that Apple has been caught lying. You were awfully critcal of Microsoft because "Vista Capable" machines didn't do EVERYTHING in Vista. But at least they would run Vista on a basic level.

Apple didn't even get close. And for what so they could save a few dollars on a machine that costs $2K-$3K. They should be ashamed and if they know whats good for them, they'll settle.

Who cares if there are other good parts in there? The part you told me was going to be in there is not.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/2/2008 7:44:00 PM , Rating: 2
i wonder what pirks thinks of the 17" HP laptops with superior graphics cards, cpus, and hard drives in them compared to the MBP, with even more 'luxory' features like the media center remote and what not..

oh, and of course the fact that it's all available for as much as $1,000 less...


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Runiteshark on 4/2/2008 8:38:35 PM , Rating: 2
So you pay twice as much, get a slightly faster gpu, a higher res screen with better lighting and a non lit up keyboard?

Sounds like a kickin' deal to me.

And by kickin' I mean stupid. Because you can have that minus the stupid buttons for another $200, lol.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Runiteshark on 4/3/2008 1:57:54 AM , Rating: 1
What? How is the leather that Lexus uses any better then Chevys?

How is the C2D in the Macs any better whats in the PCs?

I think you getting a little to jumpy with the car references here. If you want to compare a Lexus to a Chevy, Compare the Lexus to the Cadillacs. Oh suddenly its not so easy is it? They are about the same price, but both are decent vehicles. Any further and its a personal preference, and I don't care either way you go.

Speaking of, my friends just bought a GX470, wonderful car it is, but it cost them around $50k or so, they chose it because they liked the reliability of Lexus (Toyota). Its all a personal perference.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By gescom on 4/3/2008 5:52:18 AM , Rating: 2
please explain why is apple MBP LED so much better
Apple - LED backlit 1920x1200 17"
HP - TFT WUXGA+ WVA 1920x1200 17"

btw,
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/06/...
view angles? same gamut? cheap LED inside? how come?

thank you


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Runiteshark on 4/3/2008 9:48:42 AM , Rating: 2
No its the cheap 6 bit panels Apple uses inside :)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 12:44:08 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
it's the cheap 6 bit panels Apple uses inside
Where's the proof with the pictures of the disassembled MacBook Pro, with clearly visible LCD panel model/number and a link to the panel manufacturer's site?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By gescom on 4/3/2008 2:19:48 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yeah, please someone explain this poor soul why LED backlight is better than CCFL one, starting with color gamut and power consumption.

quote:
"cheap LED-powered displays can have a worse-than-usual gamut", which is obviously NOT the case with MBP LED, you could see that yourself being not the illiterate idiot you are, excuse me for some straight talk here), so learn to read and stop posting obvious bullshit here, thank you.


http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/pr...
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/pr...
http://www.lgdisplay.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/p... (LP154WP2)
The second one has LED backlight, Color Saturation 45% (the same as others), 500:1 contrast (others 500, 600), brightness 300 (others 330, 500), 262k colors (all of them),..
Well respect for being technically knowledgeable, please enlighten me, where's the difference.
Sure LED backlight is better (in theory) than CCFL one, but that was not the case with 15.4" MBP LED display, specially not with the first MBP LED series. Apple users are rather TIRED of shipping and waiting for the replacement. It seems like you have to be really lucky to pick one without any problems. We are talking about 2.000++ Euros apple superior notebooks here.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=31323...
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=...
(among many others)

Best,
g.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 6:28:33 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
LP154WP2
How do you know this one is for LED MBP, not for CCFL one?
quote:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=...
Yeah, a bunch of users report some factory calibration issues easily fixable by applying a tuned color profile. Some other people got defective notebooks which happens with every manufacturer, Apple is no exception, just read this from your thread: "no problems whatsoever on this monitor. It looks phenomenal. Even the stock color profile is pretty good. _This thing is very comparable to my 23" ACD in color rendition_" - looks like those stupid photographers just got burnt with a defective MacBook or something.

Looks like nothing interesting here.

Is it all you got?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 6:29:56 PM , Rating: 2
Now where's your proof? We're waiting!


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 7:24:09 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
where's your proof?
I have only PowerMac G5 here, which doesn't help much. And no Apple displays either, just a couple of cheapo office Dell shit, 19" or something, 'cause I'm not doing colorimetry or retouching jobs on that Mac ;-)

Besides, it's you guys who started saying Apple is lying and stuff. When I asked you where exactly are they lying and what concrete data you have on that (explicit marketing claims from apple.com, links to hardware and stuff like that) you guys immediately jumped back and tried to dodge my questions, asking ME to prove that Apple was not lying.

But I don't know that! I have never seen any trouble with MacBooks I used earlier (before my current PowerMac) and I have never seen any Apple marketing claims you guys are talking about, something about "professional graphics work". I dunno about you but I always knew that Apple has a line of Cinema monitors for professional graphics work, and this knowledge makes me wander what the heck all this fuss is about?

Nobody is giving me precise answers, and instead you ask me to prove something? Doh... I just don't care what you believe in, guys, to each his faith. Your faith is not my consern, but if you have solid concrete arguments - then we can talk.

I don't wanna talk about your BELIEFS and your FAITH, guys

Is that clear?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/2/2008 10:58:46 PM , Rating: 2
ok, you got me with the GPU.. i thought HP was using the new ones already. no worries.. I still have a point to make..

how about an alienware with dual 8700 GTs?
http://www.alienware.com/product_detail_pages/area...

how about a velocity micro with dual 8800M GTX's? note the option to add 3 solid state hard drives in Raid 0 too...
http://www.velocitymicro.com/wizard.php?iid=147

how about a sleek sony AR series for well under 2 grand?
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet...

i could keep going for a while... and this is just for 17" notebooks!

several of these even have blu-ray burners included..
http://www.falcon-nw.com/
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetail...
http://www.powernotebooks.com/category.php?catId=2...

sure, each will have some strengths and weaknesses compared to your precious MBP, but the point I'm trying to make is unless for some reason you're convinced that a backlit keyboard is something you absolutely can't live without there are INFINITELY MORE CHOICES when it comes to PCs... from cheap and practical to way more luxurious than anything apple makes (show me the macbook pro with 2 8800m GTXs, 3 solid state hard drives in raid0, and a blu-ray burner..)

your tired argument of comparing apple to lexus is getting very old. at best they are they nike of the computing world.. expensive with only marginally good reasons.

these references to 'lexus' in apple-related articles here on dailytech and the fact that your average post rating is now below 0.75 are all indicative of the fact that your views are a complete joke and are purely comedic for the majority of us who read this site.

please find some new way to support your fanboism or, more preferably, kindly do us all a favor and give it up completely and admit apple really needs to stop with its bullsh*t 'image over functionality' approach to marketing and release more industry-changing technologies/devices like the iphone.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/3/2008 11:04:46 AM , Rating: 2
first of all, i have an amd workstation which runs linux, so you can't call me a 'wintel' zealot.

second, your not getting fanatical, braindead responses, you're the one who isn't listening. just because you can find an expensive notebook on newegg doesn't mean that GENERALLY speaking apple hardware isn't more expensive than similarly equipped pc notebooks. a notebook similar in power to the macbook can be had for $400 after some good rebates, and a notebook similar in power to the macbook pro can be had for around $1500. now, you're going to say "but they don't offer COMFORT FEATUREZ" and sure, you're right. there's a premium for apple hardware, and that's what teldar was trying to say. you even admit to it to, so I don't understand why you didn't understand that.

it's obvious to you that you value things other than price/performance, which makes your decision to <3 the 17" macbook pro make sense, but if you would LISTEN, you'd understand that YOU are the one who prefers an extremely niche product. a laptop that doesn't offer the same performance but costs a lot more for 'comfort' is NOT what most people are looking for, it's what YOU'RE looking for.

2 more things-

i pointed out the better gpus because you used that as a reason to diss the HP. is it important or isn't it? at least you have some real options with pcs...

oh, and most of those 17" laptops had led backlit 1900x1200 displays.. if not standard as options. that's pretty much the norm with 17" 'wintel' laptops.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/3/2008 2:22:41 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Wintel zealot can run anything, it does not matter what hardware you run, it's your attitude that matters. The moment you post obvious bullshit about Apple and Wintel PCs (AMD == Intel in this context) you're a Wintel zealot to me. It's just the convenient term that characterizes all of the guys like you and it has nothing to do with hardware. Windows is also a generalization in this context. Again, Wintel zealotry is all about your attitude, not your hardware.


The only "attitude" I have is that you're a persistent, annoying, fanboi. I have no inherent bias toward or against windows, intels, pcs, or anything apple. I like macbook pros. I think they get a lot of things right. But comparing them to lexus and trying to convince everyone of that is a lost cause. They are NOT the 'luxury' laptop you seem to think they are.. they just have a few special features you really care about. Great for you! We get it! You can go on with your life now. It's a good thing when a manufacturer makes a product that fits your needs well. You should've realized the humor in the original post and left it at that. It's long been known that apple skimps in a lot of areas.. they often use budget ram, budget paint, and budget other things too.. but it's not like no one else is doing this.. you're right about that.

The deal here is, Apple f'd up with a bigger issue than normal. When building a machine that's advertised as being able to handle professional graphics work, they shouldn't skimp out in an area that really matters like the screen. That's ALL that's being said here.. and even you should agree. The 17" mbp uses a better panel.. an 8bit one. You should realize how wrong it is for them to use 6bit ones in the 15" models and misleadingly advertise otherwise..

quote:
There's a difference between niche product who appeals to a niche market and a niche product that appeals to the mass market. In the latter case the product is niche because it's out of reach for most people, but most people still desire it. Compare it to the case where only a few gaming freaks desire huge and heavy 17" monsters from Alienware. See the difference?


If the macbook pro appealed to the mass market, it would be popular. It's not. Most people don't have expensive 15" and 17" laptops, they have cheap 14 and 15" laptops. The mbp is a niche product AND is aimed at a niche market. Remember, price is a huge part of a market. You would argue that yourself.. since lexus isn't targeted at the "economy" market.

Oh, and actually, the alienware I linked is only half an inch thicker than mbps... 1.5" vs. 1.0". it's one of the other thinnest 17" laptops around.. and that's WITH the 3 hard drives and dual GPUs.. that sure sounds more luxurious to me! but to each his own...


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 6:42:13 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
they just have a few special features you really care about
I can say the same about your alienware notebooks - only a few extreme gamers and YOU care about them, good for you! Mass market isn't bothered with extreme gaming machines like alienware.
quote:
machine that's advertised as being able to handle professional graphics work
Where did you read that part about "PROFESSIONAL GRAPHICS WORK"? Care to provide a link?
quote:
You should realize how wrong it is for them to use 6bit ones in the 15" models and misleadingly advertise otherwise
I don't see where they explicitly lied about their 15" panels being "8-bit". I also don't see where they lied about millions of colors, since you can get those millions even on a 6-bit panel with dithering. So where did they explicitly lie, actually?
quote:
If the macbook pro appealed to the mass market, it would be popular. It's not
When I said appealing - I meant that most mass market consumers WANT it, the issue of affordability is totally another thing.

iPod was not popular in the beginning, but got popular later starting from the premium segment and going down.

Same may be happening with Macs in future. Important point here is that all the Apple products have mass appeal, in that masses WANT them, and sometimes Apple LETS MASSES have them, like they did with iPod. Sometimes Apple decides to stay in upper market segment for some reason and make high profits only there, making other Wintel clonemakers green with envy. Which does NOT change my point about MASS APPEAL. It means mass consumer always wants Apple product, but Apple not always lets the average Joe to have it.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By steve1014 on 4/4/2008 12:28:55 PM , Rating: 1
You should really grow up and just accept that you are making a fool of yourself. And not because we are all "wintel zealots" but because you have this blind affinity for holding Apple to be a god amongst corporations.
DailyTech is not marking down your comments because they hate Apple they are marking you down because every time you post, it is full of rhetoric and nonsensical arguments that clearly show your unbelievable bias towards Apple. Maybe if you used a little more sense and opened your mind on the comment boards you would do a lot better around here.

The allegations in this story are undisputed by Apple yet you choose to fight them tooth and nail. GROW UP! Apple lied and will now pay their way out of it. I'm sorry your corporate God has let you down but it is what it is.

(This post is so worth a 5)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 3:24:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
they are marking you down because every time you post, it is full of rhetoric and nonsensical arguments that clearly show your unbelievable bias towards Apple
No, you got it wrong. DT readers have the only principle they follow when they mark posts up or down - the guy who first says "Apple makes hardware that's twice more expensive as the same PC harwdare" is AUTOMATICALLY getting rating of 5, and the guy who presents several FACTS that denounce this lie imemdiately gets rating of -1.

You wanna check this out yourself? No problem - look at this post for example: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11305...

See how this stupid zealot manipulates FACTS? He just gets Dell hardware with FOUR CPU cores and compares it with Mac Pro with EIGHT CPU cores, and tells me they cost the same and hence... Dell wins! This guy gets all the high ratings, and my FACTUAL posts that disprove these zealots always get -1.

It's very simple, man - it's DT, the place where high rating is earned by lying and spewing BS.

Just check the facts, and check my posts and posts of zealots like teldar and jlips6 and Quescent (the stupid girl with Eee PC) and other zealots. You'll see very clear what are they getting their high rating for.


By elpresidente2075 on 4/2/2008 10:54:40 PM , Rating: 2
YOU LEAVE MAN-BEAR-PIG OUT OF THIS!!


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By otispunkmeyer on 4/2/2008 8:47:11 PM , Rating: 2
im pretty sure 6bit panels are present in the Air and the 15.4inch MB - Pro and i'd hazard a guess that the only model that gets an 8bit screen is the 17inch model

these arent the cheap ones. these are the expensive pro models, the ones that get used for stuff like graphics and photos and videos...ie where a good screen is neccessary


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/2/2008 11:09:18 PM , Rating: 2
1 - Want hard proof? How about CNET? http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9903602-37.html?t...
quote:
There's an option in the Displays screen, under System Preferences in Mac OS X, in which you can set the Colors option to "millions." The thing is, the MacBook Pro uses a 6-bit display , and Apple can get to that "millions" number only by using a technique called dithering, which basically blends pixels together to create a shading effect.


2 - No, it isn't that simple. Apple is TELLING people their computers are capable of millions of colors. That is a 100% lie. The computers can only MIMIC millions of colors, and this can cause problems for graphics people, who sadly, contain large numbers of people who think they need macs to do their work. It'd be like LEXUS saying their new SUV has 800 hp when it only has 400 and some kind of fake acceleration effect.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/3/2008 11:08:47 AM , Rating: 1
unlike Apple, CNET has a reputation of only publishing facts to keep up. I doubt they'd write that if it wasn't true.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 1:15:31 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
CNET has a reputation of only publishing facts to keep up
I haven't argued that CNET published facts about someone SAYING that MBP has 6-bit LCD panel. I only wanted to see a PROOF of that, and CNET has no proof (pictures of disassembled MBP and such). Does anyone else has a proof?

Again, not a proof of someone SAYING that MBP has 6-bit panel, I'm NOT talking about THAT kind of proof.

Did I make myself clear this time?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/3/2008 2:01:34 PM , Rating: 2
good lord you're annoying.

let's see.. macbook pro panel picture:
http://www.thebookyard.com/images/mbplcdgloss.jpg

lg panel.. let's see what LG makes:
http://www.lgdisplay.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/p...

hmm.. interesting.. none of their 15" panels offer 8bit color.. wow!

samsung makes a panel for the MBP too...
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/pr...

darn, still not 8bit. convinced yet? somehow i still doubt it.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 6:48:11 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
good lord you're annoying
1) This pic may be for CCFL panel, not the LED one, how do I know it's a _LED_ backlit one?

I heard that the problem with those photographers popped up soon after the LED backlit Apple notebooks appeared, is that correct?

2) Let's assume that you found me a hard proof that LED backlit widescreen 15" MacBook Pro panel is indeed 6-bit.

My next question will be this: where exactly did Apple LIE to customers about millions of colors, if you can INDEED get those millions of colors with dithering?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By VashHT on 4/2/2008 11:14:39 PM , Rating: 2
So now you're arguing a technical point on Macs. A technical point that Apple settled on in court. Well I guess you know Macs better than Apple Pirks, forget the guys who ake it you know better than them. Just because you can't find it it must not exist huh? Seriously you're not the end all god on Mac facts get off it.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By spluurfg on 4/3/2008 7:49:40 AM , Rating: 2
This has to be the most amazing thing I've ever read.

So let me get this straight. Suppose I'm the plaintiff, and you're Apple.

I go to you claiming that your marketing representations are false. You prove me wrong, then somehow get me to agree to tell nobody about it (evidently you didn't pay me to do so), leaving the door wide open for other people to waste your time and money with further lawsuits about the same thing.

Yes Pirks, that sounds entirely plausible.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 1:33:25 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I go to you claiming that your marketing representations are false. You prove me wrong, then somehow get me to agree to tell nobody about it (evidently you didn't pay me to do so), leaving the door wide open for other people to waste your time and money with further lawsuits about the same thing.
I prove you wrong but I'm not sure my marketing claims are for absolutely all the people. I know my claims are true for about 99% of the people, i.e. for all of those who are not elite professional photographers. So I decide to settle out of court because I don't want to change my marketing campaign because of two photographers. It's easier for me to explain them all their mistakes in private, and don't bother with my marketing campaign at all. Since my settlement out of court worked pretty nice, why should I bother with that anymore? If some other photographer comes to me again, I'll politely explain to him/her that my LCD panels targeted at professional photographers are sold as a separate product called "Apple Cinema display", and there are no professional photographers at all who use 15" notebooks that are sold on the market right now.

Given these solid arguments (which you can't just dismiss unless you are another stupid fanatic) all these potential future plaintiffs are guaranteed to get pissed off (read: settled out of court privately and walking away understanding how dumb they are for trying to use non-professional-photograph targeted products for their work) so why bother with my marketing and such? It's way easier for me to pay some wad of cash to a couple of lawyers and settle all this stupid crap privately. I make billions so this is less than a peanut for me.

Now let's see how fanatical you are, and whether you're going to just dismiss my scenario w/o arguments like any fanatic will... or if you are not fanatic - in this case you at least are going to try and give me some solid counter arguments. I'm waiting :)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By spluurfg on 4/3/2008 4:14:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Now let's see how fanatical you are, and whether you're going to just dismiss my scenario w/o arguments like any fanatic will... or if you are not fanatic - in this case you at least are going to try and give me some solid counter arguments. I'm waiting :)


I'm afraid I will have to dismiss your argument because it doesn't make sense. You still haven't explained why they would have gotten the plaintiffs to agree to complete confidentiality if there were nothing wrong with their marketing -- it's essentially inviting more lawsuits, which evidently is the case:

quote:
Hot on the heels of the settlement, Los Angeles legal firm powerhouse, Kabateck Brown Kellner, smelled blood and filed a class action against Apple for false advertising.


But... it suddenly dawns upon me that nobody is truly this dense, and the only possibility is that you are joking around with the entire dailytech forum base with these outrageous pro-mac arguments without anybody noticing your dry humor... Either that or you must be too young to have any understanding of civil law suits.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 8:45:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You still haven't explained why they would have gotten the plaintiffs to agree to complete confidentiality if there were nothing wrong with their marketing
I wish I knew their reasons for that, but I don't know. I just speculate and propose my own rumor versus your rumor. How is your rumor is any better than mine? You belive in your rumor, I believe in mine. Piece and friendship, freedom of beliefs! Let everyone believe in their own version of universe, okay? ;-)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 9:53:27 AM , Rating: 2
Get off it. I have a macbook pro, do you? Not only does it have a 6 bit panel but it's coating makes it look grainy and shimmery. You need only ask actual macbook pro owners about this, rather then pulling stuff out of your ass again.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 1:58:23 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Not only does it have a 6 bit panel
How do you know its panel is 6-bit? Have you disassembled it?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 2:21:17 PM , Rating: 2
I don't have to disassemble it. I merely have to look at it next to an 8 bit panel. The difference is very obvious. But then not only has it been proven that no one makes an 8 bit panel with the exact same specs... (where does apple get them, aliens?) some people have even tracked down the exact samsung panel... http://media.arstechnica.com/journals/apple.media/...

But keep arguing that the sky is green...


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 7:03:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
keep arguing that the sky is green
Keep arguing that Apple was the culprit of those photographers' problems. These guys just couldn't realize that it's a good idea to TEST YOUR PROFSSIONAL INSTRUMENT RIGHT AWAY, and IMMEDIATELY return it to the store if you don't like it.

In fact it's also true for the Vista Capable fraud case.

It's not clear to me that MS is culprit there as well, maybe it's those stupid customers who should have returned those bad notebooks RIGHT AWAY if they didn't like them?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By VashHT on 4/3/2008 11:13:27 AM , Rating: 2
Well Pirks, it seems you're willing to assume anything as long as it supports Apple. I mean come on, does the situation you just described even make any sense at all. After months of dealing with customer support these guys take Apple to court only to find out that they were wrong the whole time, and instead of just winning the case Apple settles with them for some reason and asks them to keep the fact that Apple was indeed right a secret from the rest of the world. Yes I could assume this, but unfortunately it makes no sense so I wouldn't believe it.

Oh yeah this might blow your mind but I use other products besides Windows and Intel, such as AMD and I have Ubuntu installed on my secondary HDD.

Would it be too much to ask you to admit that Apple might actually be wrong for once, because you just can't seem to accept it.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 1:50:07 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
instead of just winning the case Apple settles with them for some reason and asks them to keep the fact that Apple was indeed right a secret from the rest of the world
Perfectly normal situation - Apple might want to leave its marketing campaign intact, and avoid changing everything just because of 2 photographers. That's why they settled with them in private. They don't want to add SPECIFIC disclaimer in their marketing that those 15" MacBooks might not be appropriate for some elite professional photographers. And they don't want to do it because their products like MacBook Pro are targeted at mass market these days, not at the market of a few select professional elite picture takers.

Why should they allow two weird customers to screw up their multimillion marketing stuff? Of course it's much more cheap and effective to settle in private, than to proceed with long and noisy and unpleasant legal proces that's gonna cost MUCH more. It's always easier to explain stuff to yor customers politely with tests, comparisons with other modern Wintel notebooks and such. And then keep it private because they don't want to change anything in their OS or anywhere else.

Because changing is would be MUCH more expensive than settling with a couple of weirdos privately out of court. And they will do it the same way with all the other disgruntled photographers, so far their legal record only proves my words.
quote:
Would it be too much to ask you to admit that Apple might actually be wrong for once, because you just can't seem to accept it.
Would it be too much to ask you to prove that Apple actually installs 6-bit LCD panels in their MacBook Pro models these days, because you just can't seem to be able to prove it.

Again, prove not the fact that somebody SAID it is so, I know this already.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By spluurfg on 4/3/2008 6:00:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Would it be too much to ask you to prove that Apple actually installs 6-bit LCD panels in their MacBook Pro models these days, because you just can't seem to be able to prove it.


The fact that Apple settled with the plaintiffs supports this. It sure is a lot more proof than you have provided to the contrary. You're simply covering your ears crying 'prove it! prove it! prove that the Earth orbits the Sun because I sure can't see from there!'.

Please. It's becoming apparent that to you this is a game of how many people you can irritate.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 6:16:49 PM , Rating: 2
I think that pretty much sums it up when it comes to Pirks.
It occured to me that this is exactly the kind of tactic BS artists have been using for millennia to give rational people a hard time.

So in their twisted world it's NASA's job to prove that they landed on the moon. It's the Air-force's job to prove that Roswell wasn't a cover up, the scientists job to prove that the earth goes around the sun (as in your example), Iraq's job to prove it didn't have weapons of mass destruction, and it just goes on... and on... and on...
Well I've got news for you BS artists, the burden of proof is on you...
Notice how quickly their arguments fall to pieces when you ask THEM to prove something.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 8:36:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Notice how quickly their arguments fall to pieces when you ask THEM to prove something
What do you want me to prove? The fact that Apple not lied? I can't prove this and I'm not interested in proving it, 'cause your religious problems don't bother me, believe in anything that makes you sleep better.

If you can't prove me your point about Apple lying or something - very well, then we'll just end our discussion right here.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 8:53:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The fact that Apple settled with the plaintiffs supports this
Well, I don't know the settlement details and you don't know it either. You can speculate all you want, but until I see Apple in court arguing and presenting their proof and then LOSING their case and paying those gazillions to the poor deceived photographers of the world - until then I'm going to treat it as a pure specualtion, same as the Vista Capable case.

It's all just rumors, after all. You trust that rumor, I trust another rumor... let's end our discussion here, okay? There's nothing more to talk about.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/4/2008 1:37:32 PM , Rating: 2
a settlement from a lawsuit is not a rumor. it happened. accept it. move on. grow up.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 3:35:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
a settlement from a lawsuit is not a rumor. it happened. accept it. move on. grow up.
A settlement that you have no knowledge about (no details on how they settled, who paid whom, etc) indeed happened, so you can continue spreading RUMORS, I don't care. I know that I don't know the settlement terms, and you don't know, and nobody else here on DT knows this, so keep chattering and babbling pretending that you KNOW something.

And by the way you should tell your other Windows loving buddies like jlips6 to stop lying and trying to compare 4 core Dell with 8 core Mac Pro, like in this post: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11305...

So it's them dumb liars who should grow up, not me. Eat this, fanboy :P


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By VashHT on 4/2/2008 4:03:19 PM , Rating: 3
You realize I was just using the CPU as an example, but I really really doubt they have magic ram or hard drives either that can not possibly be had on the PC market. You really are stretching to bash PCs. I don't care if people use macs, they are great for people who's needs they fit, but I absolutely hate people like you who bash PCs to try to make Macs look better.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By jtemplin on 4/2/2008 5:07:10 PM , Rating: 3
A reasonable person would assume as per the article that the chevy vs lexus analogy relates to 6-bit vs 8-bit. Nobody said anything about mac vs pc, just the haters jumping to conclusions IMO.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Oregonian2 on 4/2/2008 5:54:34 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, LCD displays for PC's can be 6-bit too. Things I've read suggest that being 6-bit makes them faster, so units with very fast mS ratings are most suspect in being 6-bit ones.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By jlips6 on 4/2/2008 8:11:23 PM , Rating: 2
totally unrelated in almost every way, but your comment about backlit keyboards made me think of this. Check it out and tell me that this is not awesome.
http://www.alienware.com/product_detail_pages/area...

it has customizable lights all over and a smart bay. Hella cool.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By StevoLincolnite on 4/2/2008 9:58:16 PM , Rating: 2
I've actually never seen a Macbook in real life, Plenty of Acer Notebooks though, they are gaining ground here in Australia, But never a Macbook, funny how you can keep saying "Everyone and Macbook" in the same line.

They are to Expensive, even for an "Entry Level" system, where an Acer Notebook would be significantly less (800 dollars, verses $1600)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Darker Child on 4/3/2008 5:31:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I've actually never seen a Macbook in real life, Plenty of Acer Notebooks though


You just dont read what he's saying do you? He doesnt need to see a macbook to say he's never seen one. I personally dont know anyone who owns a macbook. So i agree with him, your argument about the macbook being for the average consumer doesnt work. The average consumer want a Windows laptop, not because they're any better, but in my experience because most people just want as cheap a laptop as they can buy.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Darker Child on 4/3/2008 5:53:02 AM , Rating: 2
True, I agree that window laptops certainly dont neccesarily win because their better (in fact if u buy a cheap vista laptop it will be slower than hell), but it's what most consumers know or have heard of. When I sold computers, a lot of people buying them were 30+ and had never used a pc or mac, so windows was their OS of choice. maybe ten, twenty years down the line when the next generation of kids are buying their computers and they know what they're doing, they'll choose macs. I am told by the people i know who own macs (not macbooks the big old fashioned ones :) ) that for graphical or sound work they are superior to windows.
But who knows, maybe in twenty years time we'll have a version of linux thats easy to use.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 2:14:47 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
window laptops certainly don't neccesarily win because they're better, but it's what most consumers know or have heard of
Exactly, but times are changing fast, Apple opens its stores everywhere, its revenue grows very fast, stock price even faster, they capture US premium/upscale consumer electronics market faster than a fire in a stormy weather.

Today they have 21% of the US consumer market (http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/04/01/an... ) tomorrow you'll see MS crying and asking for protection 'cause they just can't compete with Apple. Things change quick these days, man ;-)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/3/2008 11:14:36 AM , Rating: 2
your such a joke pirks. as if the HP business line and the IBM thinkpad line aren't "quality" computers. Ha.

i'd like YOU to spend a year actually using a nicely-configured thinkpad and come back here and tell us how 'poor quality' it is..

at least they have 8bit screens ;)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 2:09:03 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
as if the HP business line and the IBM thinkpad line aren't "quality" computers.
Hey, but they are TWICE as expensive as Apple MacBooks!! Look ma, Wintel PC stuff IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN APPLE'S! How can you live with that, Wintel lovers?

You were constantly bashing Apple because it's too expensive... and now you're making 180 degrees roundabout and start babbling about WAY EXPENSIVE $2000+ Thinkpads and premium stuff like that?

Hey, you are rotating faster than my CPU fan! Hehe, what a bunch of clowns :))))
quote:
at least they have 8bit screens
Care to prove that modern 15" widescreen Thinkpads have 8-bit LCD panels? You guys like to babble and chatter, but I've yet to see something substantial from you ;-)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By JoshuaBuss on 4/4/2008 2:02:05 PM , Rating: 2
what?

the R61 series starts right around $1,000..
http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/Lenovo_Think...

and there are HP business notebooks with more power/features than a macbook available for $900..
http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/HP_Compaq_Bu...

who's talking about $2000 machines?

i'm merely trying to show you some of the higher quality PC laptops. that's all. you seem to think all pc laptops are junk and that's simply not the case..


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 3:43:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you seem to think all pc laptops are junk and that's simply not the case
And you zealots seem to think that Apple hardware is twice more expensive compared to same PC hardware and that's simply not the case.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By overzealot on 4/3/2008 6:20:58 AM , Rating: 2
I've played around with Macbooks. Used them quite a bit. I think he's still quite correct with his price comparisons though, considering entry level Macbooks are about twice as expensive as entry level consumer Acers in Australia. For around that price, you could buy an Acer commercial laptop (which all boast 8-bit screens).
OSX is nice. Quite a few people like it. It behaves well, requires less setup than Windows and the programs for OSX integrate much more nicely than most Windows apps. There's less of them, though. And less hardware flexibility than PC laptops (can be a bonus, but I prefer more options).
Still, you can't argue that Macbooks are niche market compared to entry level wintels.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
By T4RTER S4UCE on 4/2/2008 7:23:53 PM , Rating: 2
But Steve Jobs says they are!


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By ImSpartacus on 4/2/2008 3:14:44 PM , Rating: 2
OMG, do not start this stuff. It is a joke.

You brought it on yourself emphatically, and now it is an inside joke here. Deal with it, and learn to laugh at yourself for once.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 10:08:56 AM , Rating: 1
You just hung yourself...

Take for instance my mac pro. Let's see...

Western Digital hard drive, 7200 rpm, as average as it gets.
An Optiarc DVD burner, horrible noisy thing!
ATI graphics card, X1900, that in a machine that cost almost 4k... and I can't even put in the 8800GT because Apple refuses to make the bios backwards compatible, and this for a card that isn't even top of the line.
2 quadcore intel chips, not unique to apple by any stretch.
Crappy relatively high latency DDRII 667 memory (5/5/5 timings). It is ECC which is good for servers, but will never be as fast as desktop memory.
Realtec audio, again nothing special
bluetooth didn't even come standard.

That leaves only the case, fans, heatsinks and power supply as something that isn't off the shelf.
If apple hadn't made a deal with intel and gotten some sort of discount allowing you to get Xeon chips really cheap, I wouldn't have gained anything from buying this configuration from them.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 2:23:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If apple hadn't made a deal with intel and gotten some sort of discount allowing you to get Xeon chips really cheap, I wouldn't have gained anything from buying this configuration from them
If this, if that... whatever, you have to man it up and admit that Apple's hardware is not twice more expensive than the same PC hardware. Try to price any octo-core Dell Precision versus Mac Pro. See that Dell is actually more expensive for the same hardware?

So you can stick your "if this if that" bullcrap in any hole of yours you want, I'll leave the choice of hole to you :P


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 2:35:50 PM , Rating: 2
You sad pathetic loser. You can't admit that you were wrong about macs using high quality parts, or even DIFFERENT parts (as if apple manufactures hard drives, or graphics cards themselves...) so you change the tune to well it's not more expensive. I never said it was more expensive, only that it's not any different.

By the way, Adobe just announced that they will release a 64bit version of photoshop in CS4, but there won't be a 64bit version for mac until CS5... Making Windows a clear choice for graphics professionals. How do you like them apples?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By EricMartello on 4/2/2008 2:41:40 PM , Rating: 5
Give me an LS7 any day over that nonsense Toyota calls a "V8" - at least Chevy parts work like their supposed to! hahaha

LOL @ people who bought a mac laptop. It is over-priced, under performing and designed for people who find using a PC too challenging. Ouch!


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By EricMartello on 4/2/2008 7:04:22 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Under performing? If you consider keyboard quality, screen quality, weight and thickness a set of performance metrics, then MacBook Pro 17" not only OVER performs, it's just unreachable for current generation of Wintel notebooks judging by these metrics.


Did you just say SCREEN quality? You mean the one-step-above-monochrome joke? Weight and thickness...woohoo, let's remove a bunch of useful peripherals and connectivity options to make the notebook lighter - and more useless. If you want to restore that, buy a bunch of bulky add-ons that weigh more and take up more space than the system would if all was integrated.

Business: IBM Thinkpad PWNS Macbook
Consumer: HP or Dell PWNS Macbook
Gullible Hipster: I <3 teh Cute Mac

quote:
Another thing is that I like that the batter lasts for 3 - 5 hours doing various tasks and I also put Windows Vista on my book.


So you got a macbook to run Vista...I don't think you were 100% satisfied with your purchase after you realized that most programs/games you'd wanna run on a Mac...don't. Maybe when their new OS codenamed Pickles comes out.

quote:
and Toyota's don't? I call BS.


* 4.nothing liters is not a V8 - it is a bloated V6.

* If it has a bunch of tech crap on it, like VVT or more than 2 valves per cyl...it's not a V8 - it's an inefficient V6 with 2 extra cylinders and a lot of extras that will eventually fail and cost a lot to repair.

Even Toyota admitted this when they put a 5.7L V8 in their American-only Tundra pickup - too bad that their take on the american V8 still fails, as it puts out comparatively less power and uses more fuel than its GM counterparts.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Quiescent on 4/2/2008 9:13:03 PM , Rating: 2
Fiberoptic backlighting is not useful. The only reason Apple puts it there is so that all the cool kids say: LOL MY KEYBOARD IS LIT!

The MBA is inferior to the EeePC in so many ways. A month ago i got yogurt in the VGA port, a USB port, and on the keyboard. Took it apart and took out the yogurt, soaked my keyboard, and it's good as new.

I can overclock my Eee, and I've ran things like Photoshop on it. You can also mod the Eee. And also it has, I believe, 3 year warranty on it (Which I voided, but trust that the Eee will last me a lifetime, even with overclocking).

Sure you can't play games on it, but hey, you're the one who said the MBA isn't a professional computer.

The Eee has been drop tested by it's own users. It has been tested for robustness. And I can say for myself how robust it is, because afterall, I did dissemble it. The plastic is no joke. It's firm and barely bendable.

As for the Macs as desktops, I've said before:

$900 for a dual core setup with 2GB of RAM, barebone tiny case, ATI Raedon 3850 256mb, 250GB of space, a card reader, a dvd drive, and a Viewsonic VA2026W with decent resolution, decent viewing angles, and just as good as CRT color display. It runs XP 64bit and Photoshop is it's main reason for the build.

$1.5k for a quad q6600 setup with 8GB of OCZ RAM, 320GB of space, 320mb 8800GTS, tuniq tower 120 heatsink (Which gives this quad a room temp at idle and 120F max at full load at a 4Ghz overclock), antec 180 case, and whatever else that I forgot. It ran XP 64bit and it was built for 3D mapping in Autocad 2008.

Can you top that?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Quiescent on 4/3/2008 7:53:52 AM , Rating: 1
A piece of crap overpriced laptop that is loved by a downrated fanboy who has thinks it's as golden as jesus' ass, but has no real facts to base on that the Eee is crap.

I don't think you can mod an MBA.

You have one USB ports. I still have three after that yogurt incident (I'll have you know I didn't quite clean that USB port, because I wouldn't stick anything in it to get it clean, and I certainly still use it.)

You have no ethernet port, and I have one. It's so great for places where I can't get wireless access. You'll have to get a USB hub, then buy a USB to ethernet adapter. Hahaha.

You have crappy speakers (I don't even know if the MBA has one), my speakers are actually surprisingly good, though there is a cut off on lower frequencies. They are much louder and much better than the Dell XPS my boyfriend has.

You have some shit wireless card, while mine can pick up networks with no bars about 50 feet away.

You have bluetooth, but who cares? People can do that mod, they can also get BLUETOOTH USB which, well you only have one USB port, so you just got lucky.

You have a better GPU and CPU, but I can get the same damn shit for even half the price. Who cares. The EeePC was meant to be a budget laptop. It is a quality balance unlike your shitty MBA that only supports so many colors. Look at the screen on the Eee, do you see any crappy support in color? No. You see all the colors you need to see.

Did the MBA have a card reader? The Eee's card reader is one of the best. I get 16mb/s read max timings with an A-data Class 6 4GB SDHC. The card reader is a good card reader and is NO bottleneck in read/write performance.

The Eee can be dropped down stairs. Can you drop the MBA down a flight of stairs?

You can put anything on the Eee. I say this because a lot of laptops have compatibility issues with SOMETHING when you install linux. People have put just about any linux distro on it with little to no problems. They've ran XP on it, they've ran Vista on it just fine.

The MBA doesn't exactly come with an SSD. You have to get it. Thus it will come with moving parts in which you wouldn't even want to shake the thing. My 4GB SSD reads at 23mb/s (Read speeds may vary from Eee to Eee). The greatest thing about SSD that you probably never knew is that because of no seek time, the response time is quick, and you don't have to worry about boot time either, because you can have little no SSD space left and still have a 15 second boot time.

By the way, Expect the Eee to have an 8.9 screen that supports 1024x600. It will also come with WiMax/3G. They also have plans for an 8 hour battery life.

Seriously, you're the mackid who THINKS he knows something, but you're being downrated for a good reason. You run your mouth and talk crap, and you just don't know what's good for you. You had no idea about the Eee, and you probably still don't now.

Seriously, you can't do any of those things I posted.

The Eee is a budget laptop that is suppose to be portable. And quite portable it is. When I was on crutches, it was godly because it was so light to carry on my back.

And once you get used to the Eee keyboard, and have skinny fingers like I do, you type so fast. You type without moving your hands barely at all. Your WPM just got a boost.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Quiescent on 4/3/2008 4:56:17 PM , Rating: 1
The Eee has been drop tested by it's own user. Though everyone is too chicken shit to drop it down a flight of stairs, and I don't have the money to make sure nothing happens to my Eee. (Though I would have to turn off EeeCTL because I have somewhat messed up the barrings on my fan because I dropped it while the fan was going at 80% it's speed, which normal speed on the fan is actually 30%) The plastic is a lot more impact resistant than you think.

I must say again, that you too are talking about the Eee like you think you know something. You haven't used it for 4 months. I don't see you owning an Eee, so you have no right either. So maybe you should stop being a retarded teenager and just face it that Apple products suck.

To be honest, I'd like to give myself and others the advice I've been trying to follow for about a year now:
Mac people are just like Crackheads. You can't convince them that Apple products suck, and you can't convince them that drugs are bad for you. They seem to come up with BRILLIANT ideas about why they think it's better and it ends up like those arguments over which genre of music is better - No one wins. So one must say: Should I waste my time on this person? Should I care? And one must say: No. I shouldn't waste my time when I can be doing, or getting paid to do, better things.

So the moral of this story is:
I'll let Pirks thinks he's won. He's won alright. Won a Golden Award of FAIL.

Anyways...

On to the displays as I originally intended on posting, if I was posting:

I think it's great that Apple is actually getting publicly revealed on their bad practices. Finally a breath of fresh air for Microsoft, because before when Apple was this small company that people thought would never succeed, Microsoft wad getting slammed. And Apple still had their evil practices. Now look whose being exposed. Now look whose being revealed. Everybody who really has their head on straight realize what Apple is.

(Also I make the comment that I made before: Apple products are white. I suppose the people who work there have white vehicles, white houses with white carpet, white walls, and white furniture. It's so white, that you can't even get any whiter. And they only got black in because of the emos.)


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: 0
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By StevoLincolnite on 4/3/2008 1:45:23 AM , Rating: 4
You're missing the point, it's laptop they are generally focused around Power Consumption optimizations, thus what does a Back-lit keyboard do? It sucks extra energy - Bad idea in my mind.

quote:
Think about it. The cheapo Wintel PC makers have REMOVED useful options and still made their laptops HEAVIER and THICKER at the same time!


This is merely fanboyism at it's best, I'll use my old Acer Aspire 1680 as an example, it's thin, It's light, it's energy efficient and at the time it came with a Mobility Radeon 9700pro - which was the-then greatest Laptop GPU at the time, It also used the Dothan Pentium M Processor, so it was one of the first Pentium M based laptops, the form factor is less than 1 and a half center meters thick with the monitor closed (It has a 17" widescreen monitor if you have to know).
It also uses a single fan and a copper heatpipe to cool BOTH the GPU and CPU.

It's light enough to swing under my arm and walk around the corner with the cord in my pocket without little issue, and the other great thing? Acer have kept similar standards with they're new designs.

So yes, there ARE alternatives to DELL that ARE thinnner and lighter, and still have Wireless, Bluetooth, 6 USB ports, Gigabit Ethernet, Cardbus, 3D acceleration that isn't integrated, DVD Drives, 17" monitors - What you have to do is shop around and stop being BIASED and choose WHAT suits YOU in terms of PRICE/PERFORMANCE - Which to ME the Mac's PHAIL.

- Also as a note, when you are making an argument against someone else, try and "Quote" the entire thing, instead of picking out tidbits, to attempt to make the person look like a moron, because seriously, it does not work for you, same goes with using cares as a reference in order to make yourself seem superior, when in-fact it does the very opposite.

Face it, everyone here you have argued with have said the same thing, that they prefer the PC over the mac, and the other funny thing is, is that you continually keep saying people are buying Mac's in Droves, funny how that isn't being portrayed in these arguments with people saying they "Have a mac and sleep with them every night" like you have done so.

Microsoft Windows >>>> MacOS
IBM Based PC's >>>> Mac's
Acer, Dell, Alienware, HP, Toshiba, Sony, Gateway, Packard Bell, eMachines, Compaq, VoodooPC, Lenovo - And of course Apple, the funny thing is if you have not realised as of yet, that the PC arena is filled with choices, thus there are always options you available to the consumer, which in my opinion is better than being Biased towards one company, and one company only.

Apple, However is only the 6th largest manufacturer in the world, also falsifying you're ideas that people are running in droves to buy a Mac, the only Mac I ever saw was in the movie Legally Blonde while the rest of the class in the law lessons, were using IBM machines. - I'll pass on using a bright Orange/Pink cheap plastic look of the Mac, I enjoy Silver/Black all the much better.

Also click this link:
http://Pirks.justgotowned.com/


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: -1
RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Runiteshark on 4/3/2008 9:59:52 AM , Rating: 1
I find it funny that you need to see your keys to type. Thats pretty cute.

As for the "the buy the best" wow yeah thats why 90% of Intel's sales in the USA is the QX90something? Oh wait, it isn't.

As for what he said about the orange and pink plastic shit:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74...


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 2:50:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
thats why 90% of Intel's sales in the USA is the QX90something
Yeah, Macs are the premium goods with mass market appeal. Give it some time, today Apple has 21% of the US consumer computer market, tomorrow they grab much more and after the premium market is saturated with Macs they may start introducing more budget oriented models for the rest of us.
quote:
for what he said about the orange and pink plastic
You can also look at real old and REAL ugly Dell models or any other old and ugly Wintel PC that's WAAAAY MORE ugly than this crazy orange plastic, so what?


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Parhel on 4/3/2008 2:59:46 PM , Rating: 2
I think you're a shill paid by Microsoft to make everyone hate Apple.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 4:24:23 PM , Rating: 2
I think you're a shill paid by Apple to make everyone hate Microsoft.


RE: My Lexus has Chevy parts?
By Omega215D on 4/2/2008 5:03:25 PM , Rating: 2
I consider my MacBook a good buy. 13" screen (not washed out like my brother's HP Laptop) with a 1.08" thickness without it getting wider as you move toward the back. I also happen to like the way the keys feel when typing. After a nice employee discount I'm glad I chose this over the Toshiba and HP models but would've like to have a ThinkPad though it is thicker.

Another thing is that I like that the batter lasts for 3 - 5 hours doing various tasks and I also put Windows Vista on my book.


By AlexandertheBlue on 4/2/2008 5:04:38 PM , Rating: 4
and Toyota's don't? I call BS.


By Gul Westfale on 4/2/2008 7:17:09 PM , Rating: 1
no, but it has toyota parts... since it is a toyota.


Which Screens?
By UppityMatt on 4/2/2008 2:01:56 PM , Rating: 1
Anyone know if this is all the screens on Macbooks? Or is there a difference between the OLED screens and the normal LED screens. I just bought a 15.4 Macbook Pro and i think the screen looks great, but im going to be mad if they mislead me on this.




RE: Which Screens?
By JasonMick (blog) on 4/2/2008 2:12:43 PM , Rating: 3
Your MacBook doesn't have an OLED. MacBooks don't have OLED screens. There is a differences between LED and OLED displays, but its a moot point as the only OLED PC monitors released have been high-end ones for the desktop market. There's no current retail laptop with OLED to my knowledge. The color shortcomings apply to all MacBook models, including the Air and Pro, according to Associated Press, sorry to say.

On the plus side-- on behalf of Kabateck Brown and Kellner, welcome aboard the class action ;0)


RE: Which Screens?
By UppityMatt on 4/2/2008 2:30:56 PM , Rating: 2
Confused on why i got rated down on this. It was a serious question. I may have made a typo on the OLED i was referring to the LED backlighting on the 15.4 and optional 17" models.


RE: Which Screens?
By bhieb on 4/2/2008 2:37:24 PM , Rating: 2
Probably because that typo made the whole post confusing. Also how does the backlight have anything to do with the bit rate of the screen. It is just a light.


RE: Which Screens?
By afkrotch on 4/2/2008 3:39:29 PM , Rating: 2
WTF kind of typo is that?

OLED
LED backlighting

That's some amazing typo or a poster who didn't know what he was talking about and has no way to Edit post. Go Dailytech!


RE: Which Screens?
By SilthDraeth on 4/2/2008 5:00:17 PM , Rating: 3
You guys need to lay off. The guy made a mistake.

BUTT.... OLED is an LED technology, as is LED Backlit LCD. So he got his LEDs mixed up, big woop. Just ask for clarification. AT least Jason gave him a worthwhile answer, and the poster corrected himself in a later post.


RE: Which Screens?
By jlips6 on 4/2/2008 8:14:04 PM , Rating: 2
:/
Why is everybody so "DEATH PENALTY TIME!" for a typo?
Chill out.


RE: Which Screens?
By Polynikes on 4/3/2008 10:19:09 AM , Rating: 2
Sounds like a Mac user to me. "Ooh, shiny!"


RE: Which Screens?
By EricMartello on 4/2/2008 2:46:31 PM , Rating: 5
Oh man, did you really get the OLED screen? You should have asked for the neural net CPU upgrade. Then you would have a learning computer. Unstoppable!

On a side note, I heard that all Macs are soon going to have 2-button mice. That steep learning curve is gonna stir up their customer base quite a bit. :O


RE: Which Screens?
By Spivonious on 4/2/2008 3:56:28 PM , Rating: 2
Would option-right click be like clicking a third button?


Tough road ahead on this case
By ralniv on 4/2/2008 2:16:36 PM , Rating: 3
This will be a tough case for the lawyers to win. The only people truly affected by 6 vs 8 bit are graphics professionals (and only some of them). I don't know the specs for Apple's display, but I would assume it employs dithering to trick the eye into seeing colors that it can't actually produce. They may be able to lean on that capability to wiggle out of their marketing error.

We are way too litigious of a society. Bad press on sites like DT or computer publications is adequate reprimanding for a minor slip up. The average consumers suffer the consequence of the expense of fighting these types of suits... higher prices.




RE: Tough road ahead on this case
By James Holden on 4/2/2008 2:20:51 PM , Rating: 5
Its funny how Apple hardware used to be the hardware of choice for graphics professionals. Now it's the hardware of choice for people who THINK they are graphics professionals. :)


RE: Tough road ahead on this case
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: Tough road ahead on this case
By kyleb2112 on 4/2/2008 4:54:09 PM , Rating: 3
Real graphics professionals get handed hexadecimal color codes by their super picky clients, and are expected to recreate those colors precisely. So, yeah, these particular displays don't cut it.


RE: Tough road ahead on this case
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: Tough road ahead on this case
By JoshuaBuss on 4/2/2008 7:32:26 PM , Rating: 2
anything with 8-bit color depth, like the 30 inch apple display.


RE: Tough road ahead on this case
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: Tough road ahead on this case
By theprodigalrebel on 4/3/2008 3:55:03 AM , Rating: 1
No, you troll.

kyleb2112 said, " these displays don't cut it", referring to the notebook displays mentioned in the article.

JoshuaBuss pointed out the 30" Cinema Display which (I'll say this real slow) is a high end, S-IPS panel.

If you know nothing about LCD panel tech, WTF are you even commenting on the article? Nobody's a liar here but you certainly have managed to steer the conversation to Lexuses and Chevys when it really should have been about the short bus.


RE: Tough road ahead on this case
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: -1
RE: Tough road ahead on this case
By theprodigalrebel on 4/3/2008 5:44:38 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
So, yeah, these particular displays don't cut it.


Read it again you dumb sack of incompetence.

quote:
If you can't follow this thread and understand what kyleb2112 was talking about WTF are you even posting here?


Again, read the damn thing.

quote:
You can't even notice who REALLY started all this Lexus/Chevy thread.


Your hardon for Macs and Lexus must make it really hard for you to sit. How do you sit down with those giant testicles, sir?


RE: Tough road ahead on this case
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: -1
RE: Tough road ahead on this case
By PWNettle on 4/2/2008 3:01:07 PM , Rating: 3
Does it really matter who is truly affected? They lied in their advertising.


By Omega215D on 4/2/2008 5:08:46 PM , Rating: 2
Unless Apple meant that it could support external monitors that display millions of colors. I really hope this makes Apple think twice about their advertising. I truly am sick of the Apple fanatics think their machines are bulletproof.


By DeepBlue1975 on 4/2/2008 4:24:39 PM , Rating: 2
I guess that in a picture showing gradients you will notice the banding caused by the poor screen depth.

But yes, should be a hard case to win because most mac users don't know the difference between a bit and a bite, and most of them will laugh thinking that someone got bitten 6 times by a laptop and that they even complain because they'd rather get the chewed by the machine 8 times instead (?)


By DKWinsor on 4/2/2008 5:38:09 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
The average consumers suffer the consequence of the expense of fighting these types of suits... higher prices.


Wow, I've never seen 19 typos in a row before. I think what he meant to say was:

quote:
The Apple consumers suffer the consequence of buying expensive products from Apple... higher prices.


...
Hidden behind that joke is a real point.


bad math
By iocon on 4/2/2008 7:12:40 PM , Rating: 2
Someone should read an Anandtech review of LCD displays.
They would realize that with dithering a 6-bit panel (which is what most people have on their desktops) displays 16.2 million colors (253^3 - you drop the two LSB of the 8-bit block).




RE: bad math
By Pirks on 4/2/2008 7:51:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Anandtech review of LCD displays
Link please


RE: bad math
By Runiteshark on 4/2/2008 8:46:46 PM , Rating: 2
RE: bad math
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 5:12:26 AM , Rating: 1
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2... has nothing on dithering in notebook LCDs so my question remains open


RE: bad math
By AMDprogrammer on 4/2/2008 9:31:26 PM , Rating: 4
Someone needs help on their math, yes you iocon...

A 6-bit display has 6-bits for each color channel. There are 3 channels to display color (RGB) which equals a total of 18-bits. If you take 2^18 = 262,114, just over 25% of 1 million.

Normal displays INCLUDING the one you linked to below are 8-bit and have 16.7 million combinations, which is 64 times larger than 262,114! (2^24 / 2^18 = 64)
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=3...

BTW, for those with a 16 million color display, the links below do well to show the difference between displays:
http://www.visi.com/~leppik/images/bit_test18.png
http://www.visi.com/~leppik/images/bit_test24.png
Those with 6-bit displays will just see the same sets of colored bars on both images.


RE: bad math
By overzealot on 4/3/2008 6:42:39 AM , Rating: 2
Those pictures are, unfortunately, not particularly helpful in this situation.
Whilst they would appear the same on a 6-bit display without dithering, the 24-bit one still appears to have a smooth transition when viewed on a 6-bit dithered display.
The Lagom dithering tests are more useful in this respect.


RE: bad math
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 4/3/2008 5:39:59 PM , Rating: 2
I wrote a fair majority of the AnandTech display reviews, so I feel I'm qualified to discuss this point.

The dithering done by TN 6-bit panels is completely not comparable to an SIPS or PVA 8-bit panel. If you put the two side by side you'll see the difference in color depth immediately.


turning into....
By fildaben on 4/2/2008 8:50:59 PM , Rating: 2
macdailynews.com

hehe i love that site, there is soo much bias its just funny. all that hate, and misinformed posters just spewing crap, on both camps!

i am fairly agnostic to which system i will use, however price is a factor, so normally i stick to wintels. i do support macs at work, so it is interesting to work with them. but to me, all it is, is just a fancy gui on a *nix kernal, nothing more.




RE: turning into....
By Quiescent on 4/2/2008 9:58:59 PM , Rating: 2
Which can be done with Compiz-Fusion on even older hardware than say dual core setups. ;) It can run on the Eee, and I've gotten it to run on a 400mhz PII setup.


RE: turning into....
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: -1
RE: turning into....
By Quiescent on 4/3/2008 7:37:52 AM , Rating: 1
Vista is poorly coded. I wouldn't run it on a quad with 8GB of RAM. Eat this.

Compiz-Fusion does more than Aero. It does more than Windowsblinds. It does even more than Mac OS X' skin. And I'll have you know that you have no idea what you're talking about with performance on the Eee. I am a poweruser and I certainly push it over it's limits. It certainly does well to this pushing. Also I'm no boy.

Personally, I am no fangirl of anything. Did you see me stick with AMD? No. Did you see me praise OCZ when people have had to RMA so many times? No. And I certainly am no fangirl of Firefox, even though I still use it. I know it's flaws.

I don't go overboard and think that anything like AMD, Apple, Microsoft, or any other company is as golden as jesus' shit.


RE: turning into....
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 11:22:33 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Vista is poorly coded. I wouldn't run it on a quad with 8GB of RAM. Eat this.


I have it running on an 8 core machine with 4 Gigs of ram, so nice try.


RE: turning into....
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 2:59:39 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Vista is poorly coded
I guess this explains why Macs are gaining market share.
quote:
I don't go overboard and think that anything like AMD, Apple, Microsoft, or any other company is as golden as jesus' shit.
But you are going overboard trying to compare crappy Eee PC to premium MBA, hence you are fangirl. There's a serious lack of sound technical judgement in your posts about Eee and MBA. You gotta learn that stuff, seriously, or people will laugh at you for stuff like "my 802.11g is better than your 802.11n" - this is sooo funny :)))


RE: turning into....
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 3:11:13 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I guess this explains why Macs are gaining market share.


Which also explains why Vista has sold significantly more copies then Leopard right? Or why leopard is such a piece of shit that Apple are now seeding 10.5.3 because even 10.5.1 and 10.5.2 have not yet fixed the bugs that it had since it was released?


RE: turning into....
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 6:20:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Which also explains why Vista has sold significantly more copies then Leopard
Forcing users to buy Vista crap by forcefully removing XP support is one thing, but getting high customer satisfaction rating is totally different thing, seems like customer satisfaction is not Microsoft's strongest point, however you can't say the same about Apple! Check out this diagram, fanboy ==>> http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/business/appleaday... now how do you like them apples :P :P


Nice
By Aberforth on 4/2/2008 1:49:45 PM , Rating: 4
They should also ban Mac vs PC Ads which usually involves a lot of fake hype.




RE: Nice
By Spivonious on 4/2/2008 3:58:10 PM , Rating: 2
Totally! I saw a few new Vista ones last night and what PC guy was saying was completely wrong! Don't get me wrong, poking fun at the typical PC guy is fine, but at least get the facts straight!


We all lose, except them
By munim on 4/2/2008 1:48:11 PM , Rating: 5
It's never a bad time to be a lawyer.




might be a correction.
By mWMA on 4/2/2008 4:50:03 PM , Rating: 2
I read it was TN LCD being used not TFT in some of them. which is the cause of the 6bit since opto produces TN LCD as well.
quote:
MacBook LCD are only 6-bit TFT models




By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 4/3/2008 5:41:18 PM , Rating: 2
This is correct, I've had it corrected.


if anybody's looking down here, I got a conspiracy.
By jlips6 on 4/2/2008 8:22:53 PM , Rating: 2
I think that the daily tech posts every possible article that they can find about apple no matter how trivial because of the popularity of Mac-PC arguments that undoubtedly spring up.




By nekobawt on 4/3/2008 11:26:28 AM , Rating: 2
I don't know, "truth in advertising" is kind of a big deal .


By AMDprogrammer on 4/2/2008 9:29:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:

Someone should read an Anandtech review of LCD displays.
They would realize that with dithering a 6-bit panel (which is what most people have on their desktops) displays 16.2 million colors (253^3 - you drop the two LSB of the 8-bit block).


Someone needs to set you straight and it's going to be me!

A 6-bit display has 6-bits for each color channel. There are 3 channels to display color (RGB) which equals a total of 18-bits. If you take 2^18 = 262,114, just over 25% of 1 million.

Normal displays INCLUDING the one you linked to below are 8-bit and have 16.7 million combinations, which is 64 times larger than 262,114! (2^24 / 2^18 = 64)
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=3...

BTW, for those with a 16 million color display, the links below do well to show the difference between displays:
http://www.visi.com/~leppik/images/bit_test18.png
http://www.visi.com/~leppik/images/bit_test24.png
Those with 6-bit displays will just see the same sets of colored bars on both images.




By Quiescent on 4/2/2008 9:33:27 PM , Rating: 2
one looks sectioned (first one) and one looks smooth. Is this what you mean?

If so, then the EeePC is a winner.


Please stop trolling
By HenHowC on 4/3/2008 7:42:28 AM , Rating: 2
@pirks:

Sure none of us know anything about the actual terms of the settlement but logically speaking your example doesn't really make any sense.

If Apple proved them wrong the plaintiffs would have dropped the case and this news would probably never have made any news sites. If the Macbooks/Macbook Pros really are using 8bit panels why would Apple just not come out with the panel manufacturer specs and end all speculation? END OF STORY.

Short answer, a large majority of Mac users buy on brand recognition and wouldn't know the difference or what to look for. That being said, I'd sure that other manufacturers use 6-bit panels (for the most part) as well. These kind of hardware "shortcuts" simply mean higher profit margins. There's a reason why Apple has BILLIONS of dollars in cash.

If it was simply a one-off hardware/quality issue that could be resolved through Applecare why bother with a possibly protracted, costly, and potentially image damaging lawsuit? Why would a law firm with a FLAWLESS class action suit record take on the case? None of the information that IS available to us supports your "devil's advocate" argument at all.

And before you start spouting out your fanboy BS, I own and LOVE my 15-inch Macbook Pro (which I'm posting from right now). Are you really just on here for the sake of arguing or something? Even us Mac users are starting to think you're a troll. No wonder Daily Tech people seem to have this skewed perspective on Mac users.




RE: Please stop trolling
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 3:04:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sure none of us know anything about the actual terms of the settlement but logically speaking
Read my replies about that stuff above and present your counter arguments please. I can't type same stuff over and over again. Thank you.
quote:
Even us Mac users are starting to think you're a troll
Because I made fun of an idiot named teldar who was spewing BS like "Apple hardware is twice as expensive as the same PC hardware"?

Right. Very "sound" reason to consider me a troll :-P


One possible justification...
By Locutus465 on 4/3/2008 11:47:29 AM , Rating: 2
Not that I usually support class action... But many artists have traditionally chosen mac over PC due to traditionally (or so it's claimed) better color reproduction on the platform. For artisitic professionals a 6bit v. 8bit pannel might actually be a problem. For everyone else in the world, whatever :P




By Quiescent on 4/3/2008 5:05:20 PM , Rating: 2
You know Asus and other companies make their LCDs, right?


apple
By coderman on 4/2/2008 4:18:39 PM , Rating: 2
Good - Apple sucks. If only Apple would go away, then force PC makers to simply design more asthetic cases - then we'd have real computers, running a real (good) operating system, get rid of the Apple zombies, kill the senseless and utterly stupid Mac ads... shut them up, and please everyone at the same time.

It's a win win - good to hear Apple is being sued for false advertising. They had it coming. Though, of course Mac zealots will come up with some kind of completely illogical reason to stand behind Apple and offload it as nothing ;) Typical with the attitude of people who love Mac no doubt.




RE: apple
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: apple
By Quiescent on 4/2/2008 9:51:35 PM , Rating: 2
You know... Once Apple got popular, their crap with looking glamorous but sucking and false advertisement and all kinds of nasty tricks was going to be revealed. Apple iRates are worse than people who buy PCs and have a problem with Vista. Just look at what the Apple customers did to the boards and their customer support phone lines. A prime example of just how bad Apple is and just how bad the people who use apple products are too.


To Lord Appleboy AKA Pirks
By acer905 on 4/3/2008 12:52:29 PM , Rating: 2
While i understand that you may think that apple products are the best in the world, and that they should be used to set the standard for what everyone needs, i feel that you should simply accept that none of your peers feel the same way you do. From your ratings, it can logically be concluded that what you say does not matter in any way to anyone here, except yourself. And thus, shut the hell up.

As for what you actually do say, i must remind you of the current computer situation. You say that macbooks offer what everyone needs, yet the numbers say otherwise. Apple products cater to the minority. Therefore its obvious that the things that other companies offer meet the needs of the consumers.

And as for your precious backlit keyboard... Who cares? i touch-type. And when i need to look at the keyboard for any reason, well if i am using my laptop the screen gives off enough light to illuminate the keyboard perfectly.




RE: To Lord Appleboy AKA Pirks
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 3:52:14 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
shut the hell up.
Hey, if I shut up, who's gonna expose the lies of teldar who said that "Apple hardware is twice more expensive than the same PC hardware"?

And who's gonna expose more subtle lies of jlips6?

Look at this post: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11305...

Here jlips6 fanatically lied about 4 core Dell being "better" than 8 core Mac Pro FOR THE SAME PRICE.

Look, somebody has to keep this forum clean, why not me? Don't hate the cleaner please, I'm just doing my work. I like to expose dirty lies of zealots and fanatics that frolick around DT forums. I'm actually doing a job that's useful for society. Now piss off please, you're just another zealot. If you wanna do something really good - then just go and deal with jlips6 lies or teldar lies or Quiescense lies... help me clean this forum instead of spitting around here and making it even more dirty. Thank you.


Oh noes!
By Baked on 4/2/2008 2:10:34 PM , Rating: 2
You mean I've been paying more money for inferior products all these years? Oh the humanity!




Meanwhile...
By James Holden on 4/2/2008 2:19:50 PM , Rating: 2
Meanwhile, Texas Instruments was sued today when it was revealed that it was not "millions of tiny mirrors" that make elephants follow you around in cornfields, but billions.




always annoyed me this
By otispunkmeyer on 4/2/2008 8:41:46 PM , Rating: 2
i bought a macbook pro, yeah i paid the "pro" prices and for that i do not get pro equipment

its easy to see when its sat next to a dell 2005FPW (yup the 20inch with the 8-bit IPS panel) that the display on this supposedly pro machine is merely 6bits (and likely dithered hopefully using Hi-FRC or whatever its called)

all i can say is its a night mare for processing photos on because the colours just cant be shown. the depths not there.

other than that the glossy ness and the LED backlights are great




I need to ask this question
By just4U on 4/2/2008 9:06:55 PM , Rating: 2
HOW does a law firm filing a class action suit say they are trying to bring justice to the consumer? I need to know, no maybe that is to strong a word I WANT to know how this benifits us.

The way I see it. Once these lawyers sue Apple.. I figure all of us should get to gether and sue them. Why? Because they "CLAIM" this will benifit us the consumer and quite frankly..... I don't see how. Do any of you?




By jabber on 4/3/2008 12:12:32 PM , Rating: 2
...make feel embarrassed to be a human being and to have ever touched a computer!

Shameful.




By phxfreddy on 4/4/2008 2:47:56 PM , Rating: 1
It works for lucky charms and who wants vista anyway. I'm not a linux geek or mac fag that thinks Gates is the devil but damn....Vista is heHUUUUUGE. I do not want to get anywhere near it. Open source is making their attempts at making their system more up to date rather moot. Its evident they can not keep up. Who could?!




Great
By Trisagion on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: Great
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 4/2/2008 1:56:40 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Apple should counter sue these people for being stupid.

Wait for it... Wait for it...


RE: Great
By James Holden on 4/2/2008 1:58:48 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Apple should counter sue these people for being stupid.
quote:

Apple already sues their users for being stupid. They just tack a shiny bezel and $500 price tag onto existing hardware and call it a day. Less lawyers that way.


RE: Great
By JackBeQuick on 4/2/2008 1:59:56 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Apple should counter sue these people for being stupid.

They won't have anyone left to buy Apple stuff then! Of course, only Apple fanboys would let their religious leader sue them and still continue to buy the same hardware...


RE: Great
By JasonMick (blog) on 4/2/2008 2:05:25 PM , Rating: 2
Apple admittedly would like them to. Brings to mind the now infamous words of Apple spokeswoman Jenny Bowcock:

"The inability to use your phone after making unauthorized modifications isn’t covered under the iPhone warranty. If the damage was due to use of an unauthorized software application, voiding their warranty, they should purchase a new iPhone ."


RE: Great
By Spivonious on 4/2/2008 4:01:32 PM , Rating: 1
Great quote there. And I totally agree with her. If I bought a new car, added a turbocharger, and then my car won't start, should I be entitled to another new car?


RE: Great
By VashHT on 4/2/2008 4:31:12 PM , Rating: 4
Not a good analogy IMO. A turbocharger adds extra mechanical stress, iphones were crippled because Apple did not want people doing it.


RE: Great
By nzdarkie on 4/2/2008 11:33:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
iphones were crippled because Apple did not want people doing it.


To clarify:

Warranties are a grey area. Apple did not want people to break the firmware of their phones. Why should Apple have to pay for a new iPhone, because someone messed their iPhone up for the sake of (often) silly phone customizations. Look at the many silly Dashboard widgets you can get for Mac OS X? Some of them can really bog the system down or mess with system settings, even though you can't see them running 100% of the time.
If you want to break the firmware, you make a conscious decision to risk your iPhone. I just hope you don't have too much faith in the people writing the modifications; garbage-in, garbage-out after all. Apple shouldn't have to pay for that garbage.


RE: Great
By masher2 (blog) on 4/2/2008 2:02:41 PM , Rating: 5
> "When was the last time a company listed the negative points about their products in an ad?"

I'm possibly the most pro-business poster on this forum, and yet I still recognize the difference between leaving off a negative point, and fabricating a fraudulent positive one.

Claiming your product has a feature it doesn't is the entire reason we have false advertising legislation in this country. Apple deserves to lose....the only question in my mind is how exactly one calculates the damages.


RE: Great
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 4/2/2008 2:04:53 PM , Rating: 2
I'd think probably the difference in cost between 8-bit panels and 6-bit panels would be the fairest marker. It's about $20 at the OEM level.


RE: Great
By Malhavoc on 4/2/2008 2:21:41 PM , Rating: 2
I think the price of the entire product would be fairest marker.


RE: Great
By bhieb on 4/2/2008 2:41:52 PM , Rating: 2
Only if you give it back, and only if that was your primary reason for buying it. I assume you looked at the display in the store and thought it looked ok? If so then how can you claim your unhappy with the entier product quality since you were oblivious to the 6v8 bit thing until now.


RE: Great
By kextyn on 4/2/2008 3:14:02 PM , Rating: 2
It doesn't matter if you can tell the difference or even care about it. It's false advertising. It doesn't have to be your primary reason for buying it or on the list of reasons why you bought it at all. If you sell me something and list something in the specs that I didn't get I would be demanding that you either fix it (the product, not the specs) or give me a full refund.


RE: Great
By afkrotch on 4/2/2008 4:04:42 PM , Rating: 2
Or they can write an apology letter to the public, then provide them with the latest Safari, bundled into Quicktime and Itunes, with no user intervention required for install.


RE: Great
By bhieb on 4/2/2008 4:28:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The case's own lawyers realized that they would not be able to obtain class action due to difficulty finding enough plaintiffs who bought the Macs singly on the "millions of colors" advertising, and thus pursued alternative legal action, adding to many observers cyncism on the seriousness of the suit.
Don't speak in absolutes it is highly annoying. Of course it matters, maybe not in your opinion, but from a legal perspective it does. Don't get me wrong I think they should be required to fix it, but not at the entire cost of the laptop. The question was what is "fair", too me that is to fix the screen or turn your laptop back in for a refund.

The OP that I replied to seemed to think he was somehow entitled to the cost of the laptop, I said that was fine as long as he gave it back. Why would you get the cost of the laptop and get to keep it, unless you are just in it for the $$$ and that is the biggest problem in our legal system today.


RE: Great
By Parhel on 4/2/2008 4:47:29 PM , Rating: 2
In your earlier post, it sounded like you thought that Apple should only have to take the laptop back for a refund if the customer could show that their primary reason for the purchase was that they thought it had 8-bit panel.

Now that you've clarified, I agree with you for the most part. But, in a case like this they really need to include some type of punitive damages. Without that, their is no disincentive against false advertising, and no incentive for consumers to take companies to court when they break the law.


RE: Great
By nzdarkie on 4/2/2008 11:24:22 PM , Rating: 2
It is interesting to see the polarised opinion of the market. You have bigots on both sides; the fanboys of Apple, and those fighting for justice on the IBM-compatible side. Where do you place the lawyers that fought this case? Where do you place the legislation used? You can't. DELL, Acer, IBM could do the same thing if they wanted to. M$ has been doing it for years (some people would say 'Who's Netscape?').

Refund the difference, or return/refund the notebook. Otherwise, I'm over fanboyishness (and I'm a fanboy) and I'm over completely slamming Apple for everything, when we're talking misrepresenting the features of Macbook displays, not software bundling (hello Microsoft, again?), not crappy operating systems.


RE: Great
By Continuation on 4/2/2008 6:40:02 PM , Rating: 3
Huh? So it's ok to lie in ads?

Using your logic, it'd be OK for a TV manufacturer to say its TV is 1080p when in fact it's only 1080i - most people can't tell the difference anyway.

This is a simple case of false advertisement. And false advertisement is illegal.


RE: Great
By Targon on 4/2/2008 3:00:58 PM , Rating: 3
Except that increased cost at the OEM level tends to be multiplied several times when it comes to the costs passed on to the consumer. So, it's $20 more for Apple to put in an 8-bit display. Most companies would only mark that up to $50 to $100, but Apple tends to inflate their prices more than PC vendors do(due to monopoly power for that platform), so we are looking at around a $200 cost to the consumer.

$200 per person is a decent amount of money, so many people, if they noticed or not would take advantage of getting either a free upgrade for their machine to a new display, or $200 in cash.


RE: Great
By Ryanman on 4/2/2008 3:07:33 PM , Rating: 2
or they could make a decent product in the first place and simply set it at the absurd price point its customers are used to instead of paying millions in lawsuits.


RE: Great
By xzourska on 4/2/2008 3:16:04 PM , Rating: 2
I think that the proper price should be Apple has to pay for every laptop sold under this miss labeled advertisement to be fixed with the proper screen and some sort of few songs from iTunes plus or some other Apple credit. So that means if Apple has the advertisement up till end of July then that means everyone who purchases a laptop up till end of July that gets the 6bit screen instead of 8bit screen will have a free replacement screen coming plus some other store credit.
I might not completely like Apple but I think this should be the standard every company should be held up to who miss advertizes a product or service.
I would have said something stronger then just a simple store credit but I don't want to be too unreasonable or let my bias come too much into play. The only reason I am suggesting a store credit in addition to fixing the problem is for time lost due to replacing the screen. Some people only have a single system and taking 2 weeks to fix the problem might cost them a lot rental fees for using a computer cafe system.


RE: Great
By fic2 on 4/2/2008 9:30:51 PM , Rating: 2
I think more fair would be a replacement to what Apple told them they were getting.


RE: Great
By DeepBlue1975 on 4/2/2008 4:39:40 PM , Rating: 2
Should be calculated by a ratio made up of dollars / missing color.

With just $0.5 for every missing color I'd rush to buy a mac only to sue them for the missing colors :D


RE: Great
By Parhel on 4/2/2008 4:53:06 PM , Rating: 3
With that math, you should work for the RIAA. :)


RE: Great
By isorfir on 4/2/2008 2:05:13 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
a company fudged a few details in their ad?!!!


quote:
it is up to YOU to find out the features of the product


In this case, they stated it had something that it didn't have. It isn't up to you find out if they're lying or not; it's their responsibility to represent the product truthfully, according to the law.


RE: Great
By Oregonian2 on 4/2/2008 5:59:02 PM , Rating: 2
yeah... and to test if they lie about their product being under warranty, you have to buy it, have it die, and try to have it repaired. When they refuse, you then say "oh! that one is a lie", and then try to take it back and undo the original purchase now that you know it's not what you want. Think they'll take it back and refund the money?


RE: Great
By VashHT on 4/2/2008 2:33:19 PM , Rating: 1
Thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard. You really think its acceptable for companies to lie to customers to make them buy their products? Give me a effing break, have you ever heard of business ethics. People wonder why the US economy is so effed up, its because people think its ok here to lie and cheat to sell utter crap instead of making something that's actually good.


RE: Great
By Reclaimer77 on 4/2/2008 2:51:57 PM , Rating: 2
Our economy is not totally " effed up " by the way. I mean, if you watch the news you will come away with that impression though.

I agree with you on the Mac topic however. Although, for the money, compared to PC's Mac's have been 'utter crap' for a very long time. I guess it took a dispute over millions of colors, most of which the human eye couldn't differentiate between anyway, to get the truth out about Mac's.

What would hurt Mac more than a lawsuit is simply the offended party taking their economic power ( aka money ) and choosing to not invest in Apples products any longer. But that wouldn't happen because Apple, due to years of brilliant marketing, has elevated their electronics to a way of life. Not simply a product anymore.


RE: Great
By Parhel on 4/2/2008 5:21:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
millions of colors, most of which the human eye couldn't differentiate between anyway


It's not that kind of a difference. 6-bit panels are night-and-day different from 8-bit panels. If I set two panels side by side, you could pick the 6-bit one out in about one and a half seconds.


RE: Great
By Reclaimer77 on 4/2/2008 5:44:34 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. The colors are not even the issue here. The issue here is your buying a TN panel. A freaking TN panel ! Your already paying a high premium because its a laptop, and an even higher one because its a Mac. But then to switch it up and throw a TN panel in it is just low down.


RE: Great
By Pirks on 4/2/08, Rating: -1
RE: Great
By Continuation on 4/2/2008 6:47:33 PM , Rating: 2
The proof is in the fact that Apple settled with the 2 guys who sued them. If Apple didn't lie in their ads, if their laptop screens are truly 8bit screens that can support "millions of colors" just like they claimed in their ads, do you think they'd settle?


RE: Great
By Chris Simmo on 4/3/2008 1:53:52 AM , Rating: 2
For the computers that I have sold, and the graphics and photography professionals I have dealt with, they either get very, very expensive LCDs or are still using CRTs. The true professionals are also using XP or Vista to do their stuff. Only The kids straight from TAFE seem to be the only ones looking to get a mac. As far as im concerned, why spend 2x the money on something that is slower and only runs 1% of software? Some people have very good reasons for it. Maybe its because it looks pretty. Maybe its because you can see the 'T' key in the dark. I don't know. Don't really care. The purpose of this article was to point out that Apple lied, and they maybe in trouble for it.


RE: Great
By Pirks on 4/3/08, Rating: -1
RE: Great
By mrp0379 on 4/3/2008 6:26:30 PM , Rating: 2
Finally, you have at least admitted that somewhere, there is a
quote:
glitch in hardware or something
with Apple products. Bravo.


RE: Great
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 8:58:23 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Finally, you have at least admitted
I never said stupid stuff like "Apple never ever had any hardware glitches in their products at all", so piss off please :-)


RE: Great
By gescom on 4/3/2008 7:36:19 AM , Rating: 2
RE: Great
By JoshuaBuss on 4/3/2008 11:16:31 AM , Rating: 2
someone rate this guy up. thank you!


RE: Great
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 3:13:51 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
MBP 15.4"
Where is the model number of the LCD panel that's sitting inside that LED backlit MacBook Pro?

You're showing me some panels but I'd like to know what is the MBP panel number? Is this panel among your panels or not? How do I know this? How do YOU know this?

Maybe MBP has another panel which you didn't show me? How can I know this FOR SURE?
quote:
There is no 15.4" 1440x900 notebook lcd with 16M colors.
How can you prove that the LCD panels you showed me are ALL THE 15.4" WIDESCREEN PANELS AVAILABLE, not just a small subset of them? I'm curious.


RE: Great
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 3:29:25 PM , Rating: 2
I have a better idea Pirks. Why don't you prove that they ARE using an 8 bit panel. It's true, so it should be easy right? Everyone will shut up and you'll wind up looking like a genius.
Go ahead.

But you better keep in mind that what you don't know is that this issue is old... It has been discussed adnauseum on various mac forums like macrumors.com, where apple users actually checked out what the make of their panel was because you can dig out that info from the display freferences. They've even identified the product codes for the screens such as 9C67 for instance, which you can find out without disassembling it.
Nor do you know that apple attempted to burry the issue, and deleted posts on their own forums.
I was hoping you'd realize this, but as you're incapable of any sort of logical thought I guess it was too much to ask for.


RE: Great
By maven81 on 4/3/2008 5:09:21 PM , Rating: 2
I'm still waiting Pirks! Show me that these laptops use 8 bit panels.


RE: Great
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 9:30:28 PM , Rating: 1
I'm still waiting maven81! Show me that Apple was lying to their customers.


RE: Great
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 9:04:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why don't you prove that they ARE using an 8 bit panel. It's true, so it should be easy right?
Yeah, it's easy, but I don't have extra $2000 to spare just to double check that :P So let me keep my doubts. I'm not saying I'm absolutely sure Apple uses 8-bit panels, and your arguments about gossips and rumors on mac forums are not that bad actually... which then brings this discussion to the next question (assuming that you are right and rumors on mac forums are actually true), which is: where did Apple explicitly lie? They mentioned millions of colors but you can, formally speaking, get those millions using dithering, correct? If you can, then I don't see how those stupid plaintiffs were going to make Apple pay them. You got any ideas about that?


RE: Great
By Chris Simmo on 4/3/2008 9:37:55 PM , Rating: 2
You are a bit of a knob aren't you? Sure everyone is entitled to there opinion, but it would seem that you have been put in your place, and still refuse to let it go.


RE: Great
By Pirks on 4/3/2008 10:14:34 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I'm still refusing to blindly believe in stuff coming from bloggers, chatters, gossips and rumors, what's wrong with that?


RE: Great
By steve1014 on 4/4/2008 12:26:08 PM , Rating: 2
Instead you choose to blindly believe a corporation that stands to gain by lying to you.

What do bloggers and chatters have to gain by telling you that a corporation is lying?


RE: Great
By Pirks on 4/4/2008 4:22:01 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Instead you choose to blindly believe a corporation that stands to gain by lying to you.
Instead you choose to blindly believe RUMORS saying that this corporation lied to its customers.
quote:
What do bloggers and chatters have to gain by telling you that a corporation is lying?
You better ask yourself what do these chatters have to gain by trying to lie to me about Apple hardware being twice more expensive than the same PC hardware?

Just look at this post for example: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11305...

This guy tried to compare 4 core machine from Dell with 8 core machine from Apple, both for the same price, and told me that Dell wins!

So the question is, again: what did jlips6 have to gain by lying to me?

Think about it.


"It looks like the iPhone 4 might be their Vista, and I'm okay with that." -- Microsoft COO Kevin Turner