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  (Source: Huffington Post)
Seeks better compensation and benefits for retail employees

No one can say Apple has a clean slate when it comes to how workers who create its products are treated. But, generally speaking, Apple's retail store employees are known for their fierce devotion to the company. That generalization has now come into question, with news that an Apple Store employee has launched a campaign to unionize his fellow retail workers.

Reuters reports that Cory Moll, a 30-year-old part-time employee at a San Francisco Apple Store making $14 an hour, is trying to form a union to fight for better wages and benefits for Apple's 30,000 retail employees in 325 stores around the world.

He's taken the campaign public, in hopes that more employees would be encouraged to join. Support, though, has been underwhelming thus far. "There's a lot of hesitation to want to speak about it," Moll told Reuters. "I don't think there's 50 percent (support) in any one store but as people talk about it, we could get close in a couple of stores."

Apple confirmed that Moll is an employee, but declined further comment.

Moll's website, Apple Retail Workers Union, doesn't offer much information beyond: "At Apple, our most important resource, our soul, is our people. Our Time Has Come."

The effort is apparently in its early stages. "There's definitely no call to action yet," Moll told Reuters. "Right now what I hope to gain is to get people to start talking about it and get comfortable with it."



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So hard to choose
By MrTeal on 6/13/2011 10:30:48 AM , Rating: 5
Who to dislike more, the unions or Apple?

Really though, you're making $14/hr as a part time retail employee, and you're bitching about your wages? How much do you really think you're worth?




RE: So hard to choose
By Wiggy Mcshades on 6/13/2011 10:43:17 AM , Rating: 4
I have a degree in computer engineering and I get payed 15 an hour working part time as a QA engineer..... this guy needs to go get hit by a bus or something.


RE: So hard to choose
By kattanna on 6/13/2011 10:45:31 AM , Rating: 4
well considering he has in effect killed his career, he had better run with this for all its worth cause who would want to hire someone who has made news as someone who tried to unionize the employees?


RE: So hard to choose
By GulWestfale on 6/13/2011 10:52:30 AM , Rating: 1
14 bucks an hour to sell overpriced computers to uneducated consumers, and he's complaining. A beat buy slave has to do it for muuuuch less than that...
And how much will crapple's prices go up if he succeeds? Mac mini for 2 grand?

Written on an iphone, btw. Yeah, i suck.


RE: So hard to choose
By nafhan on 6/13/2011 10:57:57 AM , Rating: 4
It would come up even. If they pay these guys more, they'll just use the extra money to buy additional Apple products. :)

Seriously though, I think Apple will fight the unionization, not because they can't afford to pay these guys more, but because they probably want to fight the lethargy and feelings of entitlement that union employees occasionally have.


RE: So hard to choose
By GuinnessKMF on 6/13/2011 12:02:59 PM , Rating: 3
Uh... it's retail. They already have lethargy. Unions won't work for retail, it's not exactly a skilled or manual labor job.


RE: So hard to choose
By borismkv on 6/13/2011 12:19:14 PM , Rating: 5
Neither is making cars these days.


RE: So hard to choose
By sigmatau on 6/13/2011 4:54:33 PM , Rating: 2
They start you off at $9/hour for Mac/iPhone support. When I interviewed for the job, I almost spit on the human resources mugger. I guess Apple outsources almost everything. How else would they make 40% profit on hardware? For $9/hour I can go work as a janitor.


RE: So hard to choose
By vazili on 6/13/2011 11:08:19 AM , Rating: 2
Truth. I make 8/hour. And this guy is complaining about 14? ha. I hope Apple fires him.


RE: So hard to choose
By Samus on 6/13/2011 1:36:34 PM , Rating: 2
I have a friend who's worked geek squad for years, and finally, after his last promotion to online web support, makes ~15 an hour (but $22.50 overtime and no cap on overtime!)

It took him many years to get to that position, as it is the most pristegous rank in the geek squad realm, even more so than home theater installation or business-class (laughs) onsite repair, which pay the same but don't offer overtime and require travel (in a company vehicle.)

Frankly, for $150-300 depending on what package you go with, I can't believe geek squad is still profitable as they clearly alienate their clients with low-skill labor at high-skill prices.


RE: So hard to choose
By vazili on 6/13/2011 1:54:10 PM , Rating: 2
I haven't really seen them alienate anybody. Sure, Geek Squad is not, and I dont think ever was, intended for people who can do it themselves (like most people who come to this website). But for alot of people, its definitely worth it. I can't tell you how many times I've had people reject it, saying they can do it themselves, and then come back asking how to do it. Then they get charged full price for a service when they could have had it at a discount. Do I really feel sorry for them? No.


RE: So hard to choose
By borismkv on 6/13/2011 6:04:29 PM , Rating: 2
I spent 3 years getting certifications and went from 12 bucks an hour to 35 in the same amount of time. Geeksquad is a dead end. Maybe you should tell your friend that.


RE: So hard to choose
By shoRunner on 6/13/2011 6:21:26 PM , Rating: 3
That is not the top tier in Geek Squad. 3 years ago when I worked at Geek Squad, I was the instore supervisor ("Deputy Counter Intelligence" in Geek Squad speak) and I was making ~$22per/hr. There a many positions in geek squad that make over $15 an hour. I know a current employee who is just a basic "CIA" (in-store bench tech) making $16 an hour. Not saying its a great career, but the pay is good for someone in school and who doesn't mind retail.


RE: So hard to choose
By Flunk on 6/13/2011 10:55:57 AM , Rating: 3
Not if he succeeds, if he does Apple Store employees will be unfireable. Actually if he does succeed I expect Apple to spin off the Apple store and contract sales to them.

That's what the phone company here did to control it's unionized installers. Spun them off into a different company who they now contract to.


RE: So hard to choose
By Taft12 on 6/13/2011 11:30:05 AM , Rating: 4
What's needed is for you to get together with your colleagues and unionize! Stop wishing harm on others (and stop the self-loathing while you're at it)


RE: So hard to choose
By BansheeX on 6/13/2011 6:05:07 PM , Rating: 3
Overpriced labor never lasts long. Pizza makers who price their pizza at $50 a pie and bemoan others undercutting that price are no different from union members commanding $16 an hour and bemoaning others' rights to take that job for less. Soon, they'll both have colluded themselves into $0 an hour because they'll have bankrupted themselves.


RE: So hard to choose
By SSDMaster on 6/13/2011 11:31:29 AM , Rating: 3
Dude your part time. Go full time and make $20+ an hour.


RE: So hard to choose
By icemansims on 6/13/2011 11:31:59 AM , Rating: 1
Y'know, I really have to disagree with you on this. Retail sales is a very small fraction of a percent of the cost of the products you buy. Why is it such a bad thing for them to fight to improve their standard of living?
With unemployment at 9.1% nationally, telling someone to "take it or leave it" for a job is basically like holding a gun to their head because they probably aren't going to be able to find another one in a reasonable time frame.
I agree the politics of unions leaves a lot to be desired, but there's a reason for collective bargaining, and I'm fairly shocked that the dailytech crowd doesn't come down on the side of the unions after all the hammering we've all put on the likes of Verizon and Comcast and AT&T for unilaterally cutting services and screwing the little guy, how is that different than an employer putting the screws to an employee because the employee doesn't have any choice but to take it or do without a job?


RE: So hard to choose
By Tanclearas on 6/13/2011 12:12:05 PM , Rating: 1
The problem with your perception is that the "unions" are "the little guys". Unions no longer exist to represent "the little guys". The unions are there to make money for the union, and wind up protecting the very people who probably deserve to be fired.


RE: So hard to choose
By icemansims on 6/13/2011 12:41:14 PM , Rating: 1
That's not true. While it does have certain rules that I disagree with (seniority vs meritocracy is a good example), the benefits outweigh the cost. I grew up in the midwest and the people who could actually have a decent standard of living were the union employees. The highline electricians, the coal miners, the people who worked for the government, nurses, teachers at the low end of the scale. Granted, there were a few of the more "skilled" jobs out there, attorneys, doctors, etc., but for the most part, if you wanted to make a living wage, you needed the union to force the issue with the employers or you worked 2-3 jobs. Not only that, if you didn't work for the union, forget ever being able to retire.

Me personally? I went to school, made the sacrifices and got out. Now I live in New England, and I'm of the "skilled" pool, so my own livelihood isn't an issue here.


RE: So hard to choose
By Suntan on 6/13/2011 2:24:59 PM , Rating: 5
I grew up (and still live in) the Mid West too. The people that do and are enjoying a decent living are the ones that went to college…

…Only we don’t have to resort to extortion tactics against our employers to achieve it.

Unions made sense back 60 years ago when my grandfather (a steel worker) went on strike for safe working conditions, or the ability to take the day off if he had to take my dad, or one of his brothers needed to be taken to the doctor or some such. They don’t make sense in regards to some 30-something, working part time standing in a mall, demanding wages higher than the nobody across the walkway selling T-shirts at the Banana Republic.

-Suntan


RE: So hard to choose
By Gzus666 on 6/13/2011 3:37:15 PM , Rating: 2
So wait, an inflated sense of self worth and self entitlement doesn't make them worth tons more? I don't know about this, clearly he has to stand there and sell products, which is super tough and should be paid more than the engineers making it.


RE: So hard to choose
By omnicronx on 6/13/2011 2:28:58 PM , Rating: 2
You are essentially claiming that unions in your area are needed to subsidized those that do not have the proper education or training to sustain themselves with a single job alone..

I'm not anti union, but clearly this was not the purpose in which it was meant to serve. i.e to serve underpaid and overworked employees with little to no bargaining rights.

For the most part smaller unions make sense (especially within small communities), its when they become too large and start focusing on the union itself and not its members that issues arise.

The Auto unions are the perfect example of what happens when a union becomes too large and powerful. It was truly disgraceful how the Auto unions handled many of the latest recessions lay-offs. Many of the younger members were told by their union reps to take certain buyout packages that they never should have taken, and only signed because they were coerced to do so.. most likely in a bid to protect the older workers and or union representatives.


RE: So hard to choose
By guffwd13 on 6/13/2011 5:32:51 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The highline electricians, the coal miners, the people who worked for the government, nurses, teachers at the low end of the scale.


Those are the people who need a union (although I could make a good case against both teachers and nurses). Apple employees do not.

Coal workers and electricians fell into their line of work because either their parents worked in those fields or they saw no other way out of little-town USA. Lets face it, who moves to WV from CT to become a coal miner? Apple Store employees are not people from a small-town background. They are geeky people who had access to techy components growing up, played around with them and became interested in it all. In other words, Apple "geniuses" are generally young people in college using the income to pay their way through it and aren't people doing it for a living.

And if you are doing it for a living, to be brutally honest, you didn't set the bar high enough for yourself. If you're capable of knowing the ins and outs of how computers work at the Apple store level (which honestly requires more know-how than B&M stores - hence the higher pay scale), then you're capable of doing a job in that industry that pays more. Stop being lazy, go back to school and do something more productive with your life.

Nothing against Apple store employees, but if its your actual "career" then A: get a better job if you're unhappy or B: QUIT WHINING ABOUT IT.


RE: So hard to choose
By FITCamaro on 6/13/2011 3:59:04 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps if you'd learned to spell, you'd be doing better.


RE: So hard to choose
By room200 on 6/14/2011 1:29:26 PM , Rating: 2
And you get "payed"?


RE: So hard to choose
By JasonMick (blog) on 6/13/2011 10:49:33 AM , Rating: 5
I predict Lord Jobs will crush this rebellion swiftly. These worker bees should feel privileged to touch his "magic" devices...


RE: So hard to choose
By Wiggy Mcshades on 6/13/2011 10:54:20 AM , Rating: 5
they should feel privileged to get payed 14 an hour, fuck the magic.


RE: So hard to choose
By phantom505 on 6/13/11, Rating: -1
RE: So hard to choose
By Wiggy Mcshades on 6/13/2011 11:07:05 AM , Rating: 2
nah because when he gets his larger pile of paper with faces on it, nothing will change in his life. Education can make you happy, paper can't.


RE: So hard to choose
By JasonMick (blog) on 6/13/2011 11:00:04 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I predict Lord Jobs will crush this rebellion swiftly. These worker bees should feel privileged to touch his "magic" devices...


Apparently people don't read the Diary of Steve Jobs ("Fake Steve") or couldn't detect my implied </sarcasm>...


RE: So hard to choose
By RedemptionAD on 6/13/2011 12:19:19 PM , Rating: 2
Ladies never paid to touch my "magical" device, not to mention $14/hr. ;)


RE: So hard to choose
By phantom505 on 6/13/2011 10:54:05 AM , Rating: 3
Yeah, what have unions ever done for us?

Aside from weekends, health care, income equality, ending child labor, FMLA, 40 hour work weeks, and overtime rules.

I love all the dopes on this site that are anti-union and anti-government because they think they were born with a Republican stamp on their foreheads. So if you hate the government, and you hate unions, who the hell is going to stand up for you that has *any* power over corporations? Or are you quite content at the idea you'll be making barely enough to live the rest of your life?

Just pure stupidity.


RE: So hard to choose
By cjohnson2136 on 6/13/2011 10:59:05 AM , Rating: 2
I agree that unions have played a huge role in a lot of the benefits we have today as workers. But this guy is making twice the federal minimum wage working part-time. This guy needs to get over it. If he was complaining about other benefits it might be a different story. But for working retail he is making good money.


RE: So hard to choose
By phantom505 on 6/13/2011 11:02:24 AM , Rating: 2
Who cares? Demand all the market can bare. That's corporate policy, why not employee policy?


RE: So hard to choose
By espaghetti on 6/14/2011 1:36:42 AM , Rating: 2
Because they are free to charge whatever they like.
Because you are free to work at whatever company will hire you.
Because if you go making "demands" to your company your likely to be updating your resume.
Because they are free to fire you ass.

Welcome to America.
Have a nice day :)


RE: So hard to choose
By RedemptionAD on 6/13/2011 1:05:42 PM , Rating: 5
OSHA, overtime work laws as well as child labor laws make the majority of your argument invalid. I'll agree that unions had a time when they were needed, but that time has come and gone. Health care wise, on the open market I can buy a plan better than the a UAW or UFCW or other union group for less than they charge.

When unions first came into existance health care and many worker protection laws didn't exist, so they helped start a broad movement and helped progress, but like I said earlier their time has come and gone.

Collective bargaining can be done even without unions, workers can walk out and do just about everything that a union can for themselves, if they see merit. A union strike is an all or nothing bargain where even if employees feel they are treated well, they have to walk out. That is unfair for the people that want to work.


RE: So hard to choose
By FITCamaro on 6/13/2011 6:04:20 PM , Rating: 1
In the early 19th century sure.

Health care? Health care insurance came from employers having to offer better benefits to attract workers as well as healthy workers are more productive. Not unions. It is also a tax free way for an employees compensation package to be more enticing financially.

What have unions done in the past 30 years? Nothing but raise the cost of labor while offering generally poorer productivity than non-union employees. Add in the fact that under-performing or just generally bad employees are almost impossible to fire, and you have a leaking shit can that is always full. Now you have parts of the government in bed with the unions trying to stop businesses from hiring people who aren't in unions because those who are are driving the company out business.

And conservatives don't hate the federal government. They hate the ILLEGITIMATE parts of the federal government. Parts where there is no authority to exist. Parts that handle matters that are supposed to be handled by the states.


RE: So hard to choose
By FITCamaro on 6/13/2011 6:09:14 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry. Early 20th century.


RE: So hard to choose
By Gzus666 on 6/13/2011 7:12:26 PM , Rating: 3
Well, I'm anti-union and anti-government (not so much anti, but just the bare minimum they have to do) and I'm not Republican. I guess I break your mold.

I have seen unions in the tech sector and they are awful. The world's worst people end up there. AT&T is my example, most of those people were 100% useless. They had no repercussions for their actions, so they hung up on you when you called from other departments, dumped you to nowhere, ignored problems and so on. I got transferred to my own department while I worked there more than once. They just worked to find a way to get rid of anyone, that was their job. Tell a manager and they would let you know there was nothing they could do that was the end of it.

Many of us don't need unions cause we actually have value to add to the work force. Oddly enough, I get outstanding benefits, pay and bonuses and a great work environment all without a union. They don't have to give me all that they do, they could just pay me and give me the minimum, but they have some of the best benefits I have seen from any company and I don't pay a dime, they foot the bill. I'm sorry, but if you work in a mine or do a menial job, you don't deserve high pay. Some people will be poor because they don't want to better themselves or they are just stupid, that is reality. Sorry, not everyone can be winners, I'm not going to go broke footing their bill just cause they are too lazy to better themselves. Robots are going to replace most of them soon enough anyway and I for one can't wait, no more crappy union labor.


RE: So hard to choose
By room200 on 6/13/2011 7:52:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Some people will be poor because they don't want to better themselves or they are just stupid, that is reality. Sorry, not everyone can be winners, I'm not going to go broke footing their bill just cause they are too lazy to better themselves. Robots are going to replace most of them soon enough anyway and I for one can't wait, no more crappy union labor.


So people who earn less than you or have a worse job than you are lazy or stupid? It must be nice to look at the world as narrowly as you do. LOL


RE: So hard to choose
By room200 on 6/13/2011 7:48:38 PM , Rating: 3
If I could fan you, I would. Just wait until many of the "dopes" on this website have their jobs outsourced to other countries. They'll be stupidly looking around at each other wondering what happened. All the while the top 2% will continue to laugh at them and kick them in the asses while telling to get to work at a non-existent job.

Besides, so many of the posters on this thread are talking about inflated self-worth. If there was any goup of people with a totally inflated sense of self-worth, it would be probably half of all the negative jackasses on DailyTech. Many on the people who were making $100,000 or more during the dot-com boom are now making peanuts. Remember, it could be you.


RE: So hard to choose
By LRonaldHubbs on 6/13/2011 11:19:53 AM , Rating: 2
If he's a Genius then he deserves at least double that much.

/sarcasm.


RE: So hard to choose
By ClownPuncher on 6/13/2011 11:31:18 AM , Rating: 2
It's obviously an internal attempt to bump costs of Apple products higher.


RE: So hard to choose
By ClownPuncher on 6/13/2011 11:31:44 AM , Rating: 2
Sarcasm? Who knows?!


RE: So hard to choose
By phantom505 on 6/13/2011 11:28:14 AM , Rating: 3
It occurred to me that Apple probably uses a whole bunch of part time employees, slightly over pays them to stay so they don't have to hire full time employees.

I'm guessing that is why he is pushing the union; to reduce the number of part time employees.


RE: So hard to choose
By Omega215D on 6/13/2011 5:16:10 PM , Rating: 2
I've been trying to get a job at Apple retail stores for years. Despite my education and work history Apple hires what some would call hipsters in their stores.

Living in NYC it doesn't surprise me that these hipster douches would have the nerve to unionize while being paid a good wage. Hipsters always feel entitled to everything yet looks down on those who aren't like them.

Screw these POS's.


RE: So hard to choose
By Gzus666 on 6/14/2011 10:15:09 AM , Rating: 2
Wait, you actually want to work in an Apple store with what I assume is a four year or more degree? Get a real job, you will get paid more and be treated like a human instead of cattle.


$14/hour for part time...
By Hakuryu on 6/13/2011 10:30:56 AM , Rating: 5
Is that mainly because of San Francisco's cost of living, or because Apple products are so expensive?

I can only work part time (in Ohio) because I take care of my great aunt, and I'm lucky to find something around $8/hour (most PC related jobs are only full time).

I'll never buy an Apple product, but I would be a scab for $14 part time.




RE: $14/hour for part time...
By smackababy on 6/13/2011 10:45:57 AM , Rating: 3
I'd assume it is because the cost of living is so high in San Francisco. SF's minimum wage is $9.92


RE: $14/hour for part time...
By phantom505 on 6/13/2011 10:48:12 AM , Rating: 2
And your cost of living in OH is probably about 50% of his.


RE: $14/hour for part time...
By ClownPuncher on 6/13/2011 11:30:11 AM , Rating: 2
Having lived in OH for a couple years, I can safely say there isn't much reason to live in OH.


RE: $14/hour for part time...
By FITCamaro on 6/13/11, Rating: 0
RE: $14/hour for part time...
By espaghetti on 6/14/2011 1:44:03 AM , Rating: 2
FIT, I thought the same thing growing up in FL.
I actually moved to OH a decade ago.
If you stay away from Cincinnati, Cleavland, Toledo, Youngstown & some towns close to Dayton & Columbus, the rest is corn & soybean. Small town people that would give you the shirt off of their backs....just stay out of the liberal trash cans and you're good to go....except the potholes..lol


RE: $14/hour for part time...
By Gzus666 on 6/14/11, Rating: 0
RE: $14/hour for part time...
By cjohnson2136 on 6/13/2011 10:52:36 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Is that mainly because of San Francisco's cost of living


This is kind of irrelevant considering their are Apple Stores all over America. I mean 14/hour is almost twice the federal minimum wage. My wife is a supervisor in retail and only makes 9.25, my step-dad works part time retail and makes 14.75 but that's after 8 years of work. So I'm sorry but I feel no pity for this guy.


RE: $14/hour for part time...
By sigmatau on 6/13/2011 5:06:38 PM , Rating: 3
You make no sense. So because they have equal prices all across America on their products they can share that equality to people that have different costs of living? Pure BS!

What's funny is all the people that I see whining who live in places like NYC, make $250k+ a year, and scream and shake when the topic is raising taxes on people making over $250k. Now that is something to shoot down.

But making $14/hour in places like SF or NYC is like making $5/hour in many other places. Many of these people pay $2000+ rent and can only survive by having multiple room mates. Please think before you post that many people don't have $500/month rent like in the smaller towns/rural/middle-of-where places.

How much more money an hour would you need if your rent tripled?


RE: $14/hour for part time...
By Omega215D on 6/13/2011 5:35:43 PM , Rating: 2
The rising rent in NYC is due to the gentrifying hipster population who are still getting support from their parents. There are/ used to be places in NYC where rent can be cheap and the neighborhood not too bad.


RE: $14/hour for part time...
By Gzus666 on 6/14/2011 10:02:42 AM , Rating: 1
Then don't live there? There are plenty of nice places out there with great economies that aren't super expensive to live in.


By inperfectdarkness on 6/13/2011 6:58:09 PM , Rating: 2
i think the bulk of comments on this topic forget the cost of living in CA. $14/hr. is PISSWATER for most locales in california. do these people even know that the cost of a studio apartment is $1200-1500 in many places?

believe me, i hate apple; but let's be reasonable. i knew home depot department heads who were barely making $16/hr--back in 2003.


Come on really???
By msheredy on 6/13/2011 12:11:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No one can say Apple has a clean slate when it comes to how workers who create its products are treated.


A Foxconn employee is not, I repeat, not an Apple employee. To the author Mark "The Tool" Kurlyandchik get your facts straight.

Different company, country and overall working conditions. Dumbass.




RE: Come on really???
By Motoman on 6/13/2011 12:14:31 PM , Rating: 1
Subcontractor. By definition, working for the contractor and the contractee.

Dumbass.


RE: Come on really???
By weskurtz0081 on 6/13/2011 12:14:49 PM , Rating: 2
So, are you saying that Apple has no ethical responsibility outside of the United States borders? Granted, they are not Apple employees, but are you saying it's perfectly fine for Apple's suppliers/manufactures to use child labor to create Apple products and Apple has no ethical/moral responsibility?


RE: Come on really???
By Solandri on 6/13/2011 2:57:28 PM , Rating: 2
I wasn't aware Foxconn used child labor. Do you have a reference for that?

On the general issue of ethics when outsourcing, there's a balancing game at play. Because Apple is contracting with Foxconn, they are not entirely in control of how the factory is run. If their demands become too onerous, Foxconn could tell them to get lost. Apple's business is only worth it to them so long as the amount Apple is paying them exceeds their costs.

So given two locales (China and the U.S.) with vastly different working standards, you're not at complete liberty to export U.S. style ethics along with U.S. business. If Apple doesn't put enough conditions on how Foxconn runs its factory, people like you get upset. If Apple puts too many conditions, Foxconn gets upset and blows Apple off, resulting in no exporting of the U.S. ethics you want exported. Rome wasn't built in a day, and if you insist U.S. companies only contract with foreign companies which comply with U.S. labor laws, that actually has the opposite effect. Instead of increasing export of U.S. ethics, it decreases it by decreasing the number of foreign companies willing to do business with U.S. companies.

So inevitably, you arrive at a compromise balance point. And like most compromises, neither side is completely happy with it. Foxconn isn't happy with the hoops they have to jump through to get/keep Apple's business. Apple (and you) aren't happy that Foxconn's working conditions are not as stringent as those in the U.S.

As a general rule, if the factory is operating at standards substantially higher than at comparable factories operating completely domestically, I consider that a successful exporting of our ethics. By that measure, Foxconn is actually doing fairly well by that standard - its wages are higher than the prevailing wages for its industry in China, and it's considered a desirable place to work by Chinese. You want to entice the Chinese into raising their working standards one small step at a time, because they would outright reject you if you insisted they raised their working standards to match ours in one swift step.


RE: Come on really???
By tim851 on 6/13/2011 7:45:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So, are you saying that Apple has no ethical responsibility outside of the United States borders?


Do you make an effort to enquire about the working conditions of a supermarket cashier or a toll booth operator?


RE: Come on really???
By tng on 6/13/2011 12:18:32 PM , Rating: 2
Doesn't look like he referenced them as "Apple" employees, so his facts are straight.

If Apple did care about it's employees, they would cut the profit margin and have their products made someplace other than a place that is barely above slave labor.


Perfect
By Motoman on 6/13/2011 11:12:01 AM , Rating: 5
Since reality and human suffering haven't been enough to topple the Apple Empire, maybe a union can get the job done.

...because clearly, when you want a company and/or community destroyed, the surest way to get that done is to inject a union.

Go go gadget union!




LOLz
By Conner on 6/13/2011 2:12:29 PM , Rating: 2
Next month, in effort to combat the unions Apple will introduce an Apple store.... run completely by iRobots. (gasp)
The singularity is here people!




RE: LOLz
By jbwhite99 on 6/14/2011 1:13:42 PM , Rating: 2
It depends, can they get robots that wear black T-Shirts, and get "hipster doofus" mustaches/goatees?

They would have to hire Watson to answer questions at the Idiot (I mean genius) Bar, as well - if you want to get rid of all people.


go union
By toobad on 6/13/2011 9:30:13 PM , Rating: 3
Wow and you guys are happy with. $15hr? Can u pay rent n buy food n car payments? Do your wife n kids work too? Typical corporate nonsense. I made $60k my first year at ibm and quit to make $37 an hour in a union construction. Job. Retired now with a real pension from the union. If u want what u have then keep it. If u want better work union




No problem
By INeedCache on 6/13/2011 2:35:34 PM , Rating: 2
Jobs will simply institute an internal "iUnion". A mystical, magical little organization to take any and all pain away from his employees. I'm not sure how it will work, but rest assured it will be revolutionary.




Genius?
By Autisticgramma on 6/13/2011 6:35:16 PM , Rating: 2
This is a product of their own marketing. Apple, makes a magic box that "Just works" their tech's are called geniuses.

And I see a headline claim that apple just surpassed Dell, HP and Microsoft combined. (besides it being BS) They have the money, their users need these 'geniuses' because their 'just works' magic box doesn't, and isn't magic. After instructions to lie to their customer base, (see Malware) they want to unionize. Go fig. My question is why did it take this long. Apple's business is basically built on half truths and slight of hand. People expected to walk their line, should be paid enough to like it, or, face the music. The question is, on which front will it actually take place first.

- Gramma




Wages
By Autisticgramma on 6/13/2011 6:39:33 PM , Rating: 2
If you don't make more than 14 an hour, and can actually perform computer support. You're selling your self short. This guy has a legit concern with only 14 in SF. (are you kidding?!!?) Its more than that to just get into the city. (SF)

"I make less than that," isn't a badge of courage, more like the scarlet letter of support failure.

- Gramma




By Arsynic on 6/13/2011 1:58:01 PM , Rating: 1
That's enough to make his skinny little liberal head explode.




"I'm an Internet expert too. It's all right to wire the industrial zone only, but there are many problems if other regions of the North are wired." -- North Korean Supreme Commander Kim Jong-il

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