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Print 141 comment(s) - last by retrospooty.. on Nov 15 at 9:48 AM

Apple launches a fifth generation iPad and second generation iPad mini

Even though Apple CEO Tim Cook vowed to “double down” on secrecy and leaks last year, it seems as though informational leaks on unreleased Apple products have actually become more prolific. Products like the iPhone 5, iPad mini, iPad 4, iPhone 5S, and iPhone 5C have all been given an “early reveal” thanks to plentiful leaks from parts suppliers.
 
So it should be no shock to our readers that today sees the launch of the new iPad and the second generation iPad mini. And predictably the early leaks were, for the most part, correct.
 
Perhaps the biggest surprise is that the new iPad has gotten a new name. It’s not the iPad 5; instead, it’s called the iPad Air. The new tablet is 7.5mm thin versus 9.4mm (20 percent thinner) and the screen bezels are 43 percent smaller. Weight has also been trimmed down to an even one pound, making it the lightest full-size tablet on the market.
 
Like the iPhone 5s, the iPad Air features an A7 processor and M7 co-processor inside. Other features include a 5MP iSight rear camera, FaceTime HD camera up front, and dual microphones. What you won't see, however, is TouchID or 802.11ac support. Battery life is still pegged at 10 hours.


iPad Air 

It will be available in White/Silver and Black/Space Grey. And unfortunately, Apple still hasn’t upgraded its base storage capacity configuration since the original was introduced in 2010. That means that $499 will still only get you 16GB of storage. The iPad Air will be available November 1.
 
The iPad mini has also been updated with an A7 processor and a Retina display. It also gets 2x faster Wi-Fi and expanded LTE compatibility in cellular versions. Like its big brother, the new iPad mini will be available in White/Silver and Black/Space Grey. Unfortunately, price has jumped to $399 in the base/16GB configuration and jumps to $529 for an iPad mini LTE with 16GB of storage.


iPad mini with Retina Display
 
However, the first generation iPad mini sticks around at a lower price point of $299. 


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Nexus 7
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 10/22/2013 2:47:38 PM , Rating: 2
iPad mini for $399... or Nexus 7 for $229

Hah! I think they REALLY missed the boat on pricing here.




RE: Nexus 7
By Nortel on 10/22/2013 3:08:20 PM , Rating: 2
How so? They are similar but not directly comparable.

7 vs 7.9 inch screens
1920×1200 vs 2048x1536 resolution
3950 mAh vs 4440mAh battery
plastic vs aluminum body
Snapdragon 600 vs A7 processor

$170 is a fair considering the differences.


RE: Nexus 7
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 10/22/2013 3:14:22 PM , Rating: 2
$170 is fair? The iPad is already losing market share, especially to lower priced tablets. A $170 price differential (even if they aren't EXACTLY comparable) is a lot for someone just looking for a small HD tablet to carry around.

But that's just IMHO. The greater crime is the 16GB of storage on the base iPad after all these years.


RE: Nexus 7
By Nortel on 10/22/13, Rating: 0
RE: Nexus 7
By purerice on 10/22/2013 6:20:14 PM , Rating: 5
This mentality is so reminiscent of 1980's Apple.
Claiming you can ignore the price range that includes 70% of customers would be like Nvidia not making any GPUs under $300 because they make only serve the "premium" market.
Except the difference is that when you factor in that by ignoring that market, applications made for that 70% of the market, those customers will by software and peripherals 100% incompatible with your devices. Even if you build a device for the $230 price range next year, why would today's customers want to throw away all of their peripherals and apps?

What Apple did right with the iPod was make devices for all price ranges down to what, the $70 range? Why they squat/troll/cherry pick only the highest end of the price range for tablets and smartphones is beyond insanity.


RE: Nexus 7
By BRB29 on 10/22/2013 8:59:03 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Claiming you can ignore the price range that includes 70% of customers would be like Nvidia not making any GPUs under $300 because they make only serve the "premium" market.


who cares? they make more and more money every year. Don't like it? don't buy it. Apparently, there's millions of people throwing money at them. You can hate their product but there's no reason on hating on their success as they didn't point a gun at anyone's head.

that's like complaining about how bmw, mercedes, porsche, ferrari, bentley selling only premium vehicles.

their business models work and they're making more money than almost every single business out there.


RE: Nexus 7
By AssBall on 10/22/2013 9:16:11 PM , Rating: 1
What?

If BMW/Mercedes built cars that didn't drive on US roads and that you could not fit people inside of, your analogy might work.

Apple's products aren't even compatible with mainstream products.


RE: Nexus 7
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/22/13, Rating: 0
RE: Nexus 7
By Kiffberet on 10/23/2013 8:07:33 AM , Rating: 1
There always seem to be hill billies on DT that don't understand that there are rich people out there, who have lots of money and want the best, most expensive products available.

They don't want a nexus or a rinky dink Kindle, they want the best. And they'll happily pay for it.
Even if it cost double, they just hand over the cash with a smile.

That's who Apple caters for.

Same as Ferrari. They don't make budget cars for the dirty masses, they make premium cars for rich people.

Carry on hatin'...


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/23/13, Rating: 0
RE: Nexus 7
By Kiffberet on 10/23/2013 8:33:12 AM , Rating: 1
You knuckle down and carry on doing your chores, and I'm sure within a year you'll have earned enough pocket money for an iProduct.

Who knows, maybe Santa will come up trumps if you haven't been naughty this year.


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/23/2013 9:07:33 AM , Rating: 2
Your broad generalization and total ignorance of technical details is hilarious. I dont know which is funnier, Apple being the best available products, or your imagined scenario where people that dont buy them do so because they cant afford it. No, doucheman, I own 2 homes, 2 cars and have 2 kids, one of which is going to a university and I could buy as many iDevices that I want. The hilarity that you think it matters is what amuses me. You are kind of pathetic.


RE: Nexus 7
By BSMonitor on 10/23/2013 12:31:09 PM , Rating: 2
The fanboy troll reveals his colors, yet again...


RE: Nexus 7
By Kiffberet on 10/23/13, Rating: 0
RE: Nexus 7
By ven1ger on 10/22/2013 9:23:42 PM , Rating: 3
The thing that is troubling about Apple is not their success but their trying to use patents, lawsuits, bans to stifle the competition. I think many readers here are very upset about the tactics that Apple uses to restrict competition instead of actively competing. Apple is trying to create a market that they are the only players in town, so even if we don't like it, we can't buy the competition's product if Apple gets away with banning it.

I wish Apple success and even MS because with competition, it bodes better for the consumer, but when Apple tries to interfere with the competition through nefarious legal means, that is troubling.


RE: Nexus 7
By marvdmartian on 10/23/2013 7:46:23 AM , Rating: 2
Right. They're happy to make lower cost devices, like the iPhone 5c, but will still gladly sell it to you for their premium price....and the iSchmucks will still gladly pay it!

There are still plenty of devices out there that will give comparable performance at a lower price than the mini. And the whole thing about their super fine resolution? Indiscernable to most people, compared to a 1080p screen.


RE: Nexus 7
By Dug on 10/22/2013 4:09:14 PM , Rating: 1
Compared to the difference in technology, yes.

If Google could offer 3x the performance of it's current model, add 2048-by-1536 resolution, same or more battery life, and include apps that actually work with each other and charge $170 more, then I think people would jump on it in a heart beat.

If all you want is a tablet to browse the web, then no it doesn't make sense.


RE: Nexus 7
By aliasfox on 10/22/2013 4:22:47 PM , Rating: 3
Yes, but $399 still stings for a small tablet. Stings a lot.

Also, anybody notice that the iPad 2 will be entering its FOURTH year on the market in January, and has been priced at $399 for all but the first year? Talk about milking an old product for all it's worth...

Would have liked to have seen the entry level devices bumped to an A6 - I hear the A5 has trouble keeping up with iOS7.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 5:17:27 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, it'll sell well but the price is still a drag. They could have kept a lower price by using the perfectly fast and capable A6X instead of the A7.

They established a baseline in the price of the first iPad Mini and now they bumped it. Emotionally that doesn't feel right even if the $100 price difference between a smaller and a larger iPad using top of the line components logically makes sense.


RE: Nexus 7
By lukarak on 10/23/2013 6:18:58 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think A6X is cheaper to manufacture than A7. It is a larger die. Plus you are getting a new instruction set, which is always nice for futureproofing and for developers. Now you have the same chipset for all flagship products.

And ipad mini is not in the same category with its almost 40% larger screen area than the 7" tablets.


RE: Nexus 7
By nafhan on 10/22/2013 6:30:40 PM , Rating: 2
I think the iPad 2 is aimed at the PoS (point of sale) market at this point. There's a lot of retail equipment out there that works fine with the iPad 2.

Apple is killing it on the profit margins.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 8:11:22 PM , Rating: 2
Point of sale is one thing, there are iPads using systems like Square and Shopkeep everywhere. Others are appliance style applications like for hospitals, aviation, field work, enterprise mass deployment, etc. These uses really need to be able to run the software and be plugged into the ecosystem more than anything else, and an iPad 2 is still fine for that.

Its obviously also aimed at lower end consumer use, but if price is a factor and you're only using it for very basic things (web browsing, Netflix) than a Nexus 7 is fine too.


RE: Nexus 7
By nafhan on 10/22/2013 8:54:24 PM , Rating: 2
In a thread on a different forum I saw someone mention that the $400 price point may be there to make the hospitals, retail, etc. (bulk buyers) feel like they are getting a huge discount when they purchase it at a reasonable price. Makes sense to me.


RE: Nexus 7
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/22/2013 9:10:49 PM , Rating: 3
Makes 0 sense...


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 9:34:12 PM , Rating: 2
They'd also be buying it in bulk.

For consumers I don't get it but for commercial applications it makes sense


RE: Nexus 7
By Disorganise on 10/22/2013 7:07:51 PM , Rating: 2
But according to Micks article yesterday, unless someone has another type of screen technology ready to go, all Android phones and tablets will end up banned.
So you're left with MS or Apple. SO inexpensive tablets disappear - why would Apple choose to price lower now when they think they'll become the default choice soon?


RE: Nexus 7
By BrgMx5 on 10/23/2013 10:04:25 AM , Rating: 2
It will never happen


RE: Nexus 7
By w8gaming on 10/23/2013 10:24:00 PM , Rating: 2
The way Apple does its patent, even Microsoft will not be exempted. It might not be the touch screen technology that does this, but surely Apple would have "patented" another obvious and trivial idea which is not covered under the cross licensing deal with Microsoft that Apple can use as a mean to destroy MS once it shows any sign of market acceptance. This approach has always been Apple game plan all along.

All other tech companies should follow Apple's way of doing patent and prepare their own defense the same way. The way the court and lawmaker are handling such issues now, this is the only way.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 3:59:44 PM , Rating: 3
It also has the same high-end internals as the 10" iPad, but in a smaller chassis with a higher PPI display. I thought they'd stick an A6X in there but they went with the A7. I wouldn't surprise me if the new iPad Mini has much lower profit margins even with the price bump.


RE: Nexus 7
By troysavary on 10/22/2013 4:02:42 PM , Rating: 2
If they can fit the A7 in a phone, why is it surprising they can fit it in a mini?


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 4:06:19 PM , Rating: 2
Space isn't the thing, cost savings by going with prior gen parts is


RE: Nexus 7
By troysavary on 10/22/2013 7:20:20 PM , Rating: 2
The have that with the non-retina mini.


RE: Nexus 7
By Kiffberet on 10/23/2013 8:27:16 AM , Rating: 2
Just because the number 7 is bigger than 6, doesn't make the A7 more expensive to make than the A6.

In the world of micro-chips, the latest technology are built on smaller dies, so actually cost less than older tech on the bigger dies.

But the A7 chip is faster, so people will pay more for it, and Apple makes more money...

Only when people stop buying Appleproducts, and they're left with tons of stock nobody will buy, will Apple lowers prices.

I guess that's the agenda for all the iHaters on DT.


RE: Nexus 7
By menting on 10/23/2013 10:29:35 AM , Rating: 2
that is, if you don't consider the fact that that A6 can also move to a smaller node.


RE: Nexus 7
By nafhan on 10/22/2013 6:39:16 PM , Rating: 2
Eh... based on wiki, the A7 is actually a smaller chip than the A6X with a narrower bus. I'd guess that it was probably cheaper to go with the A7 or at least close enough that it was worth it to simplify their product line.

ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_%28system_on_c...


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 7:53:44 PM , Rating: 2
You're right, space is probably the reason. I forgot that the A6X is a larger chip


RE: Nexus 7
By althaz on 10/22/2013 9:24:31 PM , Rating: 2
$170 is definitely not fair. The original iPad mini was the best small tablet on the market, pre-2013 Nexus 7. I still feel it was better, but not really worth $100 more. If they had kept the price the same, but increased resolution then it would have been worth $100 more.

Instead they removed too much of the bezel (no longer usable in portrait mode, and 4:3 sucks in landscape) and made it dearer. Bad.


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 3:09:29 PM , Rating: 3
YA, I was close to wanting a retina mini if it retained the $329 price. At $399, its not a huge bump, but I would just feel like an idiot paying that much for it. Its a nice tablet, but not that nice. Oh well, I guess that's Apple for ya. 2 decades later and still overpriced for what you get.


RE: Nexus 7
By Dug on 10/22/2013 4:27:49 PM , Rating: 1
Ummm, just don't go out one weekend. I'm not saying every weekend of the year, just one. And you can get that new ipad mini that you want that will last years. (instead of one weekend out)


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 5:09:55 PM , Rating: 2
Doesnt matter, still not worth it. It was a credibility stretch getting it if it were $329 for the retina mini... And the downside is I'd be stuck with IOS. $399 just made it stupid. I have a Nexus 2013 now and the mini w/ retina is better, but not enough better. I will wait and see what the Nexus 10 and rumored Nexus 8 have to offer and then decide.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 5:12:53 PM , Rating: 2
Ah yes, all those high quality apps, faster performance, smooth UI, no touch input latency, what a downgrade! ;)


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 5:39:35 PM , Rating: 2
Clueless troll


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 5:44:34 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 5:53:54 PM , Rating: 2
What is that? You when someone points out the areas where Apple products lack?

Meh, I am not getting into it with you. The tablets are top notch hardware wise, the phones are severely lacking, hte OS is years behind and severely lacking in features and lousy UI and that is that. Nothing new here.


RE: Nexus 7
By Reclaimer77 on 10/22/13, Rating: 0
RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 5:44:17 PM , Rating: 2
IOS is really not that bad if you arent a power user. For my phone, I am a power user. I need it to do everything and IOS just.... cant, not even remotely close. For a tablet, the way I use it is pretty normal - internet browsing, email, remote desktop , a few small games and apps. I don't need power and I LOVE the Mini Retina form factor, size weight, screen etc. I just dont think it's worth the $399. Like I said, $329 was already a stretch of credibility. Especially looking at the Nexus 7 2013 imporovements over 2012 and the Nexus 10 and possibly 8 right around the corner.


RE: Nexus 7
By Reclaimer77 on 10/22/13, Rating: 0
RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 5:57:54 PM , Rating: 2
"The OS itself...... I'll sum it up by saying it's for retards. Sure it does some things well. But who cares? Everyone OS does today."

Ya, good point. It doesnt "Do" anything that others dont, and it has alot of things it "dont" that others do. Period.


RE: Nexus 7
RE: Nexus 7
By Dug on 10/22/2013 8:13:15 PM , Rating: 2
That's funny, I have two that work fine.


RE: Nexus 7
By Reclaimer77 on 10/23/2013 12:11:37 AM , Rating: 1
I should have been more clear. They were taken down, I think it was around 2011. Today they have clearly been allowed back on the market, but I rest my case. These weren't porn apps, or anything like that. Apple just arbitrarily decided they all had to go, screw the developers, screw the users, screw those who had legitimate uses for those apps.

I say screw the walled garden.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/24/2013 7:59:19 PM , Rating: 2
Right, who needs accuracy when you can just post loudly?

You rest your case based on something that happened over two years ago. Are you still resting your case on "LCDs don't get image retention?"

Because man that was funny to read.


RE: Nexus 7
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/24/2013 10:11:33 PM , Rating: 1
Quit being such a fucking tryhard, you look pathetic.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/25/2013 4:53:26 PM , Rating: 2
Says the whiniest person here. Stop trying to project your inadequacies onto others, its sad


RE: Nexus 7
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/25/2013 8:27:09 PM , Rating: 2
The whiniest person on here? ROFL! I know you aren't talking about me, that much is obvious. Like I said, tryhard. Your Apple fanboyism, that's sad, and pathetic, like your tryhard.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 6:02:34 PM , Rating: 2
What are these exclusive power user applications? I honestly want to know, given that pro and high end apps on iOS are either much more fully featured or actually exist compared to their Android counterparts.

Apps for invoicing and physical surveying are much better on iPad. This is a VERY specific usage scenario that only applies to me and a couple hundred other people, but apps for remotely controlling programmable DMX boards are significantly better on iOS. Professional aviation applications at the quality level of something like Foreflight don't even exist on Android. At best Android has to wait months or years for a port, if it ever happens at all. I can't even find an SSH or RDP app on Android as good as what's on iOS.

These are all very specific apps that can be deflected by saying "I would never use that", but the point is that this depth of selection and quality extends all the way through their respective application libraries.

And you better not say widgets, I will die laughing if you repeat widgets or any girly customizing of the home screen like you have so many times in the past.


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 6:47:28 PM , Rating: 1
Why is it always about apps with you? I didn't say anything about apps, everyone has apps. I need my phone to be able to do all the things that the iPhone can't do, you know the list, I don't need to post again. IOS is child's play, it can't even support but a few specific resolutions, and most of them are just doubling the previous res. Number one first and foremost I adjust the DPI so I can see more on my screen, and do what I need to do, it varies and I need flexibility. IOS has none. even Woz agrees with that. you just can't handle the fact that some people don't like the iPhone because it's under featured. deal with it. If you like it that's fine go buy a dozen of them. It doesn't have the power I needed to have. It's tiny and locked down and made for nitwits, children' and old people.


RE: Nexus 7
By Reclaimer77 on 10/22/2013 6:56:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why is it always about apps with you?


It's one place he can cherry pick examples.

In his mind there's literally no good apps on Android lol.

Forget the DPI. What about keyboards? Can you even change those on iOS yet, or are they still blocked?

You can't even choose your own default apps!!

Takin lives on another planet. Planet RDF.


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 8:03:38 PM , Rating: 2
I know. He is so stuck on the one side and has no clue whatsoever what he is missing, or even talking about... But .... apps.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 8:31:09 PM , Rating: 2
I am very familiar with Android, all the way from the beginning to the present. Most recently I've had an HTC One and a 2013 Nexus 7 in the house for a bit, and I look forward to seeing the GN3 as I liked the GN2 phablet. Everything I have criticized the platform for are things Google has been very actively fixing while many fans continue denying there are problems at all. Then they say "its even more amazing!" when it finally catches up in one way or another with iOS or WP.

The thing isn't that Android is bad, it isn't! The thing is that it isn't nearly as much better than iOS as you claim. In the very high end there are far more similarities than differences between the two (the low end majority is a mess that Google really needs to take control over, but that's another topic).

The things it lacks in terms of performance, responsiveness, and application quality are enough to keep me on iOS tablets, but I completely understand the arguments going the other way as well, especially when it comes to price or 5"+ screens. Its just like with PCs: you get what you pay for.

Again, Android isn't bad, and it isn't that much different if you do standard things with it or don't mind waiting for ports running on slower hardware. The passion and extent to which you believe the differences are so huge in Android's favor is what's funny here.

Again, if SD cards and widgets are acceptable tradeoffs to performance, responsiveness, and software, then by all means keep buying it. This is why choices exist and I completely support that.


RE: Nexus 7
By Reclaimer77 on 10/23/2013 12:04:13 AM , Rating: 2
How is that any different than you claiming iOS is the holy grail, while the improvements to it largely come from just ripping off features from Android? Then you come here and say those features don't matter or were "gimmicks".

iOS 7 was an entire, flat out, copy-cat release from top to bottom.

quote:
In the very high end there are far more similarities than differences between the two


Maybe if you're talking surface stuff, even then not really. And, again, this is ONLY the case because Apple has straight up lifted everything from Android!

http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/r/story/70/00/016705...

quote:
Again, if SD cards and widgets are acceptable tradeoffs to performance, responsiveness, and software, then by all means keep buying it.


Here you are being a purposefully condescending ass. You Apple fans seriously think you're better than everyone else and your products are light years ahead.

I don't know why we waste time even talking to you. Enjoy your "superior" products that fewer and fewer people purchase every year.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/24/2013 6:46:38 PM , Rating: 2
Hilarious that superficial looks are all you can focus on. I guess that's all you have when software, hardware, and ecosystem are lacking in comparison.

quote:
Enjoy your "superior" products that fewer and fewer people purchase every year.


I don't like getting into fanboy arguments over sales or marketshare, I prefer to talk about practical tech advantages. That said, you need to get in touch with reality, iPhone sales continue to double YoY while the high end from Samsung has slowed and HTC is scrambling to stay alive.

How can you say fewer people are buying them when sales continue to accelerate while high end sales for Android stagnate?

quote:
I don't know why we waste time even talking to you.


I don't know why either, its really annoying. I say it all the time but you keep on finding new things to show your ignorance in. Recently it was "LCDs don't get image retention".

A hillbilly Tea Partier with a Core 2 Duo with no tech knowledge whatsoever spends all his time talking about it like he knows anything.

Nope, not annoying at all!


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 7:59:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you know the list


Yes, widgets and SD cards. Woohoo

quote:
even Woz agrees with that


Woz also thinks WP 8 has the best UI (I agree that live tiles are great) and his daily driver is still an iPhone because (drumroll) it has the best applications.

quote:
Why is it always about apps with you?


Computers are app machines. Applications literally define functionality.

If customizing a UI matters more to you than performance or what a device is capable of, then why are you even on Windows, an OS that basically kept the same UI for 15 years until Windows 8?

Tweak a Linux distro to your heart's content if applications don't matter to you as much as customizability. My priorities with a tablet lies with the best applications running on the best hardware, just like it does with my desktop and laptop.


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 8:10:00 PM , Rating: 2
Good then... YOU get an IOS device and go yak it up on less technical sites like CNET or slashgear. lol. You keep coming here talking smack about a platform you know nothing about. Clearly you don't use Android and that is fine. I get why you like you IOS.... But you honestly don't know anything at all about android. Not even a little bit. Keep your starter OS and enjoy it.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 8:37:27 PM , Rating: 2
I can make my way around a bash terminal with my eyes closed.

Do you really believe customizing widgets or putting in an SD card is high end technical usage?

Wow


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 9:09:40 PM , Rating: 2
If you think that is all that Android has to offer then I repeat you are clueless. I suspect you do know better than that and you are just being obtuse purpose. You said in your other post above that they are more similar than different. You are right about that, the thing is one does a lot of things the other doesn't do and the other doesn't do anything the first does not.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 9:32:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You are right about that, the thing is one does a lot of things the other doesn't do and the other doesn't do anything the first does not.


Every ecosystem is about compromises, I totally recognize that. Here you are disregarding the performance, responsiveness, and developer support that one has that the other still lags behind in.

No worries if it doesn't matter to you and your priorities are elsewhere, again, its all about acceptable tradeoffs. Its just the fan lack of acceptance coming from a grown man that's weird.


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 9:40:05 PM , Rating: 2
Right back at'cha


RE: Nexus 7
By EasyC on 10/23/2013 8:30:06 AM , Rating: 2
Developer support? I work at a software company and we despise writing apps on iOS because of how limiting the SDK is. Most of our app development time is spent overcoming iOS's limitations, rather than adding features.

Responsiveness? Have you used an iPhone 4/4S/5 with iOS 7? Apple runs it's own planned obsolescence by way of software performance when it releases a new iOS. Even on the 5S, the difference is measured down to 50-100 milliseconds of finger response. If you can actively gauge that and warrant it as being a premium feature, then all the power to you.

Performance? We're reaching the age where having the the super fastest best ever processor doesn't mean much. The hardware has become more than fast enough for media consumption, which is what these devices largely are. Sure you can boast about pulling much faster benchmarks, but at the end of the day, the performance difference is negligible.

Now, had you talking about form factor, that would be different. The iPhone is better for one handed use, even though it's sharp edges aren't comfortable to hold for extended periods of time. The low end LG Optimus F3 is more comfortable, has an sd slot, removable battery, battery life longer than 18 hrs and is 200$ off contract. Granted the screen isn't super resolution, but it's priced accordingly and functions extremely well. If Sony brings the xperia z1 mini to the US, that would be even better at the same form factor.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/24/2013 7:07:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Developer support? I work at a software company and we despise writing apps on iOS because of how limiting the SDK is.


That's interesting. Everyone I know in cross-platform mobile development despises working on Android, mainly because of more expensive development and support costs from supporting so many hardware/software configurations combined with lower return from direct and advertising revenue. These aren't small time either, I'm talking about applications installed on hundreds of millions of Android and iOS devices (Speedtest, etc).

quote:
Responsiveness? Have you used an iPhone 4/4S/5 with iOS 7?


I'm running an iPhone 5 with iOS7 right now, it is very fast and smooth. I can't speak to the 4S and I'm certain that the 4 is a dog running it. Its nice that Apple at least decides to support such old hardware.

Dinging a three year old phone based on some "planned obsolescence" conspiracy is weird. Old hardware is old, but at least it is still being supported. Actual planned obsolescence is when numerous other OEMs don't support perfectly capable hardware that is still within a two year contract, because they want to push you to the newest thing as fast as they can (now with Jelly Bean!).

quote:
the difference is measured down to 50-100 milliseconds


And some people either can't see or care about the difference between SD and HD on their television. I can certainly tell, but obviously it isn't the same for everyone.


RE: Nexus 7
By Reclaimer77 on 10/23/2013 12:19:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Do you really believe customizing widgets or putting in an SD card is high end technical usage?


Where did he even say that??

It's clear that despite your claims, you've spent about 10 minutes with Android Gingerbread, and let that cement your opinion of the OS forever more.

Why don't you open your eyes and take a look around? The war is over, Google won. Dealwithit.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/23/2013 4:31:02 AM , Rating: 2
Those are "power-user" features he's touted time and time again. He didn't come back with any when I honestly asked him if I missed anything, while I brought up power features like hardware and software. You know, those things.

I know it must hurt you to think that I'm not basing my opinion only on Gingerbread but I've spent hours with the HTC One, the 2013 Nexus 7, the GS3, the GN2, etc. I admittedly have spent only minutes with the Kindle Fire, but there's only so much time I can spend around a laggy POS. ;)

quote:
The war is over, Google won


Um, ok? Its cool that they're selling metric boatloads of low end hardware to developing nations I guess?


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/23/2013 7:55:16 AM , Rating: 1
"I've spent hours with the HTC One, the 2013 Nexus 7, the GS3, the GN2"

Hours? Wow. Too bad you didn't learn anything about what you are doing. You might have been able to utilize the massively better feature set, OS and Platform for something besides playing games all night and day.

"Those are "power-user" features he's touted time and time again. He didn't come back with any when I honestly asked him if I missed anything"

Either you are a straight up liar or you actually live in a fantasy land. Sounds like you are asking for the list. You know the one. The one you are just beggin' for right now.

- Larger Screens
- Higher resolution screens
- Higher DPI
- Better Edge to Edge display (no giant iBezel)
- Micro SD card
- Removable batteries
- NFC
- Mini HDMI port
- Better Notifications (yes, even after Apple copied it)
- Faster Voice search
- Better Mapping software
- Widgets
- Live wallpaper
- Plays HD content without downscaling
- Greater than 5x4 icons
- Multi user support
- Multi Window support
- pop up browser(in a window)
- Wireless charging
- Eye scrolling
- Waterproof models
- Air gestures
- Active stylus support
- Better OS
- Better UI
- Prettier OS
- Plug and play as a flash drive to copy files
- Flexibility in OS (Tons of Custom ROM's, etc)
- Flexibility in hardware (qwerty models, waterproof models, removable batteries, larger models, smaller models, high end models, mid range models, cheap models)
- Micro USB

Not exactly just "SD and widgets" . Anyhow, the "power" part comes not in all those features but in the flexibility part.

You saying Android advantages are just "SD and Widgets" is like me saying the only advantage the iPhone 5s has over today's high end Androids is 54 vs 53 frames per second in a certain game and 30 more "xmarks" in a synthetic test. WOW. What a trade of for a starter phone missing all the good stuff with no options to get a single one of them if needed.

The fact that you lie and continually reduce this HUGE list to "SD and widgets" kind of shows you already lost the debate and you're just trolling... and I am done with it.



RE: Nexus 7
By Reclaimer77 on 10/23/2013 8:59:11 AM , Rating: 2
Not sure if it made your list, but Google Now really does make Siri look like a retarded 2 year old.

Android is light years ahead of iOS in usability, the "just works" crowd is oblivious to this.


RE: Nexus 7
By Rukkian on 10/23/2013 3:43:13 PM , Rating: 2
There is one thing missing from your list that imo is one of the best reasons to never use IOS: You can set default applications. If don't want Google maps as my navigation, or chrome as my browser, I can use whatever I want.


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/23/2013 4:15:02 PM , Rating: 2
Ill have to add that and Reclaimers above- and "back button as well.

Takin gets on me about keeping that list, but its just too many to type out every time some iTool says IOS does everything Android does... No, it does not, not even close.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/24/2013 6:34:32 PM , Rating: 2
Haha, and there you go with your silly list again, baited!

Was that copy/pasted or did you really go through the trouble of typing all that out for the thousandth time? And its still padded with useless nonsense like air gestures, hilarious!

And "better OS?". When it runs better applications, sure. That day isn't here yet, not by a longshot. Like I said, it is flexible but it lacks in things like responsiveness, UI, hardware, and software.

You are so offended by the idea that any platform doesn't involve tradeoffs. Get over it nerd!


RE: Nexus 7
By Wazza1234 on 11/11/2013 6:21:04 AM , Rating: 2
Er, he asked you what power features Android gives you.

- Larger Screens - NOT ANDROID
- Higher resolution screens - NOT ANDROID
- Higher DPI - NOT ANDROID
- Better Edge to Edge display (no giant iBezel) - NOT ANDROID
- Micro SD card - NOT ANDROID
- Removable batteries - NOT ANDROID
- NFC - NOT ANDROID
- Mini HDMI port - NOT ANDROID
- Better Notifications (yes, even after Apple copied it) - IF APPLE COPIED, HOW ARE THEY BETTER? CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS
- Faster Voice search - NOT ANDROID (GOOGLE VOICE IS NOT OPEN SOURCE, ANDROID IS)
- Better Mapping software - NOT ANDROID (GOOGLE MAPS IS NOT OPEN SOURCE, ANDROID IS). GOOGLE MAPS ALSO ON IOS
- Widgets - LOL
- Live wallpaper - LOL
- Plays HD content without downscaling - IOS CAN DO THIS
- Greater than 5x4 icons - LOL
- Multi user support
- Multi Window support
- pop up browser(in a window) - LOL
- Wireless charging - NOT ANDROID
- Eye scrolling - NOT ANDROID
- Waterproof models - NOT ANDROID
- Air gestures - NOT ANDROID
- Active stylus support - IOS SUPPORTS THIS
- Better OS - SUBJECTIVE
- Better UI - SUBJECTIVE
- Prettier OS - SUBJECTIVE
- Plug and play as a flash drive to copy files - NOT ANDROID
- Flexibility in OS (Tons of Custom ROM's, etc)
- Flexibility in hardware (qwerty models, waterproof models, removable batteries, larger models, smaller models, high end models, mid range models, cheap models) - NOT ANDROID
- Micro USB - NOT ANDROID

So out of your list, you have:

- Widgets - LOL
- Live wallpaper - LOL
- Greater than 5x4 icons - LOL
- Multi user support
- Multi Window support
- pop up browser(in a window) - LOL

Wow, you're such a POWER user if you need multiple accounts, popups and pretty widgets!


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 11/13/2013 5:55:14 PM , Rating: 2
Wow... Web-stalk much? 3 weeks laters and you come back flaring.

Anyhow dumbass, you don't buy a mobile OS you buy a phone with its OS and Android supports those things and you can get it with Android. IOS does not and you cannot get it with IOS therefore your whole post is rendered inert.

LOL @ your pathetic ass. I am soooooooo over your stupidity. Go webstalk elsewhere trollboy, I am not biting.


RE: Nexus 7
By Wazza1234 on 11/14/2013 5:38:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Anyhow dumbass, you don't buy a mobile OS you buy a phone with its OS and Android supports those things and you can get it with Android


You can get a big engine with tyres too. Does that mean that the same tyre is better if it's attached to a car with a big engine? No.

In case that was too complex for you, the conversation was Android vs iOS, yet your list is mostly nothing to do with Android. People buying large screens doesn't make Android better. It may even mean that they are putting up with Android in order to have the hardware that they wish.

You successfully showed that very few of the reasons for buying Android phones have anything to do with Android.


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 11/14/2013 5:44:28 PM , Rating: 1
/paste You are so rediculous. You get banned for acting like an angry spiteful child, and rather than taking it in and contemplating why your behavior got you banned and how you could potentially not act like such a seeping douchebag, you come back with a new userid acting even worse. Your deperate need to spread your troll goo is so strong that you need to make an ass of yourself all over again? Really, you are pathetic. I strongly suggest you look at yourself and try to grow some as a human being. It will do you a world of good. LOL @ your pathetic ass. I am soooooooo over your stupidity. Go webstalk elsewhere trollboy, I am not biting.


RE: Nexus 7
By Wazza1234 on 11/15/2013 8:57:57 AM , Rating: 2
/paste You can get a big engine with tyres too. Does that mean that the same tyre is better if it's attached to a car with a big engine? No.

In case that was too complex for you, the conversation was Android vs iOS, yet your list is mostly nothing to do with Android. People buying large screens doesn't make Android better. It may even mean that they are putting up with Android in order to have the hardware that they wish.

You successfully showed that very few of the reasons for buying Android phones have anything to do with Android.


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 11/15/2013 9:48:21 AM , Rating: 1
Are you trying to spell tires? Heaping moron.

I am not even going to get into how the platform is related to the OS and what it supports both hardware and software. Just boil it down to this, that list is of things you can get on Android phones because Android supports it. They are things that you cannot get on IOS phones, because it isnt supported. That cant possibly be beyond your grasp. It's not about the OS its about what you buy and use, the device and its features and the iPhone feature set isn't just lacking, it is severally lacking. Not just the low res, low PPI screens, but the entire list. Deal with it trollboy.


RE: Nexus 7
By Reclaimer77 on 10/23/2013 5:06:52 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Um, ok? Its cool that they're selling metric boatloads of low end hardware to developing nations I guess?


If that's what you have to tell yourself to make the pain go away, fine. Last time I checked, Android was kicking iOS's ass in America. Apple's home turf! We're just one big developing nation I guess lol.

Again, these arguments are pointless. The mobile device war is over, Google won with Android. Apple and Microsoft can have fun picking up the pieces though.


RE: Nexus 7
By retrospooty on 10/23/2013 6:34:46 PM , Rating: 2
"If that's what you have to tell yourself to make the pain go away, fine."

It is what he has to tell himself. He cant stand to admit that Android is dominating with 80% of all smartphones. 80%, vs. all other combines at 20%... Better high end phones. Better mid range phones and better low end phones (by default) so he has to make it all about the low end instead of realizing its all about the flexibility (supporting more than ONE resolution, DPI, etc., form factor ). It's dominating because you can do anything with it, from low end cheapo phone to the highest of high end with all bells and whistles, to tablets to smartwatches to (soon to be) SmartGlasses.

That is OK though. He can huff and puff all he wants, it changes nothing.


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/24/2013 7:55:51 PM , Rating: 2
I have SLI GTX 680 in an i7 Haswell PC driving a 1440p monitor.

Low end econoboxes absolutely dominate the level of hardware I'm running in numbers. Even something like the Steam hardware survey, a sampling of gamer hardware, puts me within a single percentile of hardware spec.

I do not care one iota about low end hardware being more numerous than what I have.

Its the same with all the crap Android hardware out there. I couldn't care any less.

If you're happy with the low end being so numerous (because you're a cheerleader, I guess) and the high end being on slower hardware on a laggy OS with inferior software because it gets you more flexibility, GREAT!

Again, choice is awesome. The only thing I have issue with is the idea that a majority platform on low end hardware in superior in any way.

This is like hearing someone brag about their crummy $200 netbook because it sold so well. Again, who cares?


RE: Nexus 7
By TakinYourPoints on 10/24/2013 6:39:16 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
If that's what you have to tell yourself to make the pain go away, fine. Last time I checked, Android was kicking iOS's ass in America. Apple's home turf! We're just one big developing nation I guess lol.


Just because they sell well in the US doesn't mean that they're all high end, far from it. Inexpensive contract-free
or featurephones are still huge in the US.

Proof is in sales, even the GS4, king of high end Android phones, sells at only a quarter the rate of high end iPhones. High end sales are under 1/5 of Samsung's total sales, and they are crushing HTC, LG, Motorola, etc.

Google won the low end, no question. The high end is still dominated by the iPhone and iPad. After all these years Google still makes more online ad revenue from iOS rather than Android, apps are still iOS first or iOS exclusive, and so on.

Android is a relative niche in the high end. Why you're in denial over reality is really really weird.


RE: Nexus 7
By jimbojimbo on 10/23/2013 10:40:51 AM , Rating: 2
If you use a tablet for minimal things like that why not get a cheaper Android tablet or a now discounted Windows RT?
As for the people asking what Android can do that iOS can't I ask you this.
Can iOS let me open a IP camera viewer app to check on cameras at home then let me also pull up Facebook on the SAME screen and let me read through FB posts while the IP camera app continues to stream video?? Can it let me close that FB app then pull up a browser also while still watching the video feed?
Also, can the iPad on one single homepage show me all my recent work email, Gmail, calendar, text messages, AND current weather and 5 day forecast? No, it just shows you a bunch of icons and sadly less icons than the phone on a much larger screen. Pretty lame.


RE: Nexus 7
By aliasfox on 10/22/2013 3:20:28 PM , Rating: 2
Given the rumors that Apple is supply constrained for the holiday quarter, they'll still probably sell every last Retina iPad Mini they can make, even at $399.


RE: Nexus 7
By web2dot0 on 10/22/2013 9:27:33 PM , Rating: 2
We'll see by Christmas.

Remember when people said "Who the hell would buy a $700 phone?!?!?" when iPhone first came out. "Only idiots would buy it".

Well, I guess Apple proved a lot of people wrong.

Then people said that Apple didn't innovate, just a good marketer.

Everytime Apple succeed there's always an explanation.

So before we all dismiss it. At some point, we have to say .... hmmm ... maybe there's something that Apple did right?


RE: Nexus 7
By kmmatney on 10/23/2013 12:32:57 AM , Rating: 2
I really do like the iPad mini, but it would have been nice if they kept the same price price at $329. $399 is really pushing it for 16GB.


RE: Nexus 7
By jimbojimbo on 10/23/2013 10:26:51 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hah! I think they REALLY missed the boat on pricing here
Not really. To determine price they look more at how many suckers would pay X for the item rather than competition. They know they have a TON of mindless drones that would pay anything so they can charge whatever the hell they want.


Air...headed
By jnemesh on 10/22/13, Rating: 0
RE: Air...headed
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 3:11:32 PM , Rating: 2
"we have to wait until 2018 for Apple to release that...and it will probably be six months after Samsung beats them to it!"

Yup. It must be nice to be Apple. They are the only company I have ever seen that gets away with releasing products AFTER their competitors and still says the competitors copy them and loser fans somehow believe it, even when shown proof. WTF?


RE: Air...headed
By mellomonk on 10/22/2013 3:28:42 PM , Rating: 2
That's because Apple is usually the one who makes the first practical use of a given technology. They are usually the one who gets it 'right' first. Pioneers get the arrows, settlers get the land.

It's funny you bring up Samsung in a discussion about innovation. When is the last time they shifted the world's paradigm? Is there anywhere in your house where you can look and say 'Samsung changed the way that is done'? Great hardware makers for sure, but taking new concepts and creating practical products and markets? Not so much.


RE: Air...headed
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 3:33:23 PM , Rating: 3
"Apple is usually the one who makes the first practical use of a given technology. They are usually the one who gets it 'right' first"

They did that once, with the iPhone, and STILL that was only the UI part of the smartphone. There were already PAlm and Blackberries and WinMobile devices on the market that did more, Apple just got the UI right. That doesnt give them the right to sue everyone and act like they invented smartphones. Apple copies more than they are copied and gets away with it like it never happened.

And I didn't mention Samsung. I am not impressed with them either.


RE: Air...headed
By JackBurton on 10/22/13, Rating: -1
RE: Air...headed
By troysavary on 10/22/2013 4:01:31 PM , Rating: 5
Diamond Multimedia and Creative Labs had MP3 players before the iPod.

MS, Palm, RIM, Nokia, and probably others had smartphones before the iPhone.

Real Networks had an MP3 store before iTunes.

Dell and HP and IBM all had 2500x1600, or higher, displays before Apple.

I'm not sure if someone else put an LCD on an AiO first, but I don't care. I want more than laptop performance on my desktop.

How is making a laptop thinner while leaving out functionality innovative?


RE: Air...headed
By aliasfox on 10/22/2013 4:17:43 PM , Rating: 2
Don't be obtuse about the MP3 thing. Sure, the Rio and Zen or whatever they were came out before the iPod. The market as a whole didn't care - I know because I looked at them, went 'meh,' and went on my merry way. Something pocketable (like the Rio or a Walkman, unlike a Creative) that held more than an hour's worth of music (unlike the Rio) was quite impressive back in the day. Not to mention that the scroll wheel gave you a way to go from A to Z with a thousand tracks. Do you want to press a down arrow 1000 times to go from Aerosmith to ZZ Top?

As for a music store, the iTunes store *was* the first store that had a) a large music catalog, and b) reasonable licensing policies. Sure, they were late to the game after Amazon stripped away all DRM, but that doesn't change the fact that they made online music palatable in the first place.

As for the others, sure, those are debatable.


RE: Air...headed
By Reclaimer77 on 10/22/2013 4:35:33 PM , Rating: 1
I love you people who think nothing is viable until Apple comes along and sprinkles magical pixie dust on it. Only THEN is it a good idea.


RE: Air...headed
By aliasfox on 10/22/2013 4:45:42 PM , Rating: 2
Well, somebody's gotta balance out the people who think everything is viable until Apple comes along and sprinkles magical pixie dust on it. Only THEN is it a bad idea.


RE: Air...headed
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 4:50:41 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Sure, they were late to the game after Amazon stripped away all DRM


Apple also took away DRM from music sales first.

Remember that DRM policies for media are required by content providers, not the digital retailers. Steve Jobs argued for years against it, even going so far as to publish an open letter explaining why DRM for digital music sales made no sense.

The logic is that people filled their iPods with music, but the amount of storage Apple sold every year was exponentially larger than the amount of music that was sold on iTunes and other services. People were obviously filling their iPods with ripped CDs or pirated mp3s. DRM had done nothing to stem piracy, so why have it in the first place?

Their leverage finally got EMI to drop DRM, and other music publishers followed shortly after. Amazon and others also sold DRM free music shortly after under the same terms.


RE: Air...headed
By Disorganise on 10/22/2013 9:52:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Not to mention that the scroll wheel gave you a way to go from A to Z with a thousand tracks. Do you want to press a down arrow 1000 times to go from Aerosmith to ZZ Top?


Well actually you'd hold the button down rather than repeatedly press. And yes, I prefer that than the scroll wheel thing - one reason I never bought a ipod. 2nd being my iPaq (HP) already had me covered. Except that was actually a touch interface. Only thing missing was the phone part - which came in later editions.

And before we go off on the scroll wheel being 'new'. check out some of the old VHS video players - yip, that there jog wheel works pretty much like the scroll wheel


RE: Air...headed
By w8gaming on 10/23/2013 11:51:52 PM , Rating: 2
iPod was Mac only until 2004, and the sales was not particularly strong before then as all Windows users are excluded from using it. By then the company that owns Rio already got into financial trouble and could no longer compete well in the market place. Creative was a strong contender between 2004 to 2005, while it won best of show award in CES for Zen:Vision M. However, Creative did not have good software team and their media manager was far inferior to iTunes, and it did not have a strong marketplace for online music. Coupled with the notorious hardware failure and massive returns with Creative Zen in 2007, this essentially completely kill off their presence in the market. Another company which could have made great players but did not was Sony, which was stuck in their DiscMan era and never really did much until Apple had already dominated the portable player market and by then it was too late. Microsoft tried with their Zune, and marketed their first product with unappealing brown color. Frankly spec wise Zune was better but MS completely bungled their marketing effort and the product never took off.

And then Apple released iPhone in 2007, from then onward portable mp3 players are fated to be converged into smartphone and standalone mp3 players are now rare. There is simply little incentive to purchase mp3 players while a smartphone can do a lot more. Mp3 players era has come and gone and the history has shown us that Apple had become the sole winner at the end. But I wouldn't say the market never cared about other alternative products. Apple won at the end, but they did have to fight and earn that victory.


RE: Air...headed
By Apone on 10/22/2013 4:31:55 PM , Rating: 3
To also add to your list,

- Samsung SCH-2000 (first cell phone with voice dialing)

- Samsung Uproar (first cell phone with built-in MP3 player)

- Apple's "Retina Display", which is basically IPS technology (created by Hitachi), has been around since 1996 (for high-end CAD and desktop monitor workstations only until recently).

- Macbook Pro (Apple is notorious for charging double-triple the cost of DDR3 RAM when configuring even when DDR3 was dirt cheap)

- Macbook Pro (Apple is notorious for providing previous or two-generations-ago GPU’s and CPU’s on older MB Pro’s and 5400RPM notebook hard drives (when 7200RPM became prevalent).

Apple charges $20 for its Service Packs and its iMessage system isn’t as secure as Apple claims.

Apple didn’t create Siri; they simply bought the company (Siri Inc.) who made the voice command program and incorporated it into their product (which isn’t uncommon in business).


RE: Air...headed
By rubbahbandman on 10/22/2013 5:54:29 PM , Rating: 2
I think many readers at Dailytech miss the point when it comes to the type of innovation that Apple brings. Innovation isn't always simply being the first company to release a feature - innovation can also be creating a superior medium to unite many inventions together over a simpler, more polished interface. In other words, Apple's true innovation is not in the ingredients, it's in the recipe, and the secrets to pulling off the recipe lie in the software.


RE: Air...headed
By Apone on 10/23/2013 1:19:01 PM , Rating: 3
It's not so much innovation, more so creative marketing. Sure I agree programs like iOS definitely was a game-changer but let me ask you this: if Samsung originally created iOS and launched it with its Galaxy smartphone before the iPhone 1 came out, would the Samsung brand enjoy the blind loyalty and a cult following status like Apple does?


RE: Air...headed
By retrospooty on 10/22/2013 4:58:30 PM , Rating: 2
"Let me list the innovations from the others (Samsung, LG, HTC), oh yeah, NOTHING."

Looks like I dont need to. Troysavory and Apone beat me to it.

BTW, NOTHING you listed didnt already exist. I think they were the first to market with a 30 inch 2560x1600 panel, but they didnt make it, they just bought it and released it a few weeks prior to Dell.

Really, all this time and STILL you think Apple invents. Either you are just retarded, or a troll... Prolly some of both.


RE: Air...headed
By ven1ger on 10/22/2013 6:00:49 PM , Rating: 2
"Great hardware makers for sure, but taking new concepts and creating practical products and markets? Not so much."

Are you even aware of products that Samsung has it hands in? They made excellent washing machines, TVs, refrigerators even DVD players to name a few consumer items. Now let's take the Note, everyone thought that stylus's were out, but everyone that I know that has a Note loves it, a practical product and they have a market for it, just not as mainstream as others but Samsung does develop for niche markets and successfully at that.

"But Samsung is a global leader in screen technology, TVs, batteries, and chip design" - Forbes

So again where don't they innovate? Just because your worldview is limited to phones and tablets, let's not forget that there is more to technology than just those kind of products.


RE: Air...headed
By Manch on 10/22/2013 6:33:10 PM , Rating: 2
I cant say that about either Samsung or Apple...

Microsoft on the other hand has many times. As of late though, the only paradigm they have shifted is my want to buy their products from I cant wait to not so much to What in holy hell is this BS?

One question though. Which is Apple? The pioneer or the settler? Cuz, android sure is settling the smart phone and tablet landscape.


RE: Air...headed
By Nortel on 10/22/2013 3:15:35 PM , Rating: 2
I think it may be slightly unreasonable to expect a company to re-invent the wheel on a yearly basis. What other manufacturer or industry are churning out mind bending innovation each cycle?

20% thinner, 28% lighter, 2x faster, thinner bezel and improved cameras. All while retaining battery life. It may not be mind blowing but it's quite an improvement, not to be dismissed as 'crap' because it isn't something imaginations had ran wild with.


RE: Air...headed
By Dug on 10/22/2013 4:20:10 PM , Rating: 2
Just like cars, pc's, clothing, tools, sports equipment, etc.

Do you get pissed off at every manufacturer, or just Apple?
If you don't like it, invent something yourself.


"Air"
By Granseth on 10/22/2013 2:34:10 PM , Rating: 2
When I read Ipad Air I was hoping for a ASUS Transformer like Macbook Air.
Now I don't care, as tablets/pads evolve, but the new ones doesn't really bring anything that I need or want. The most important improvements for me now is battery and weight.




RE: "Air"
By inighthawki on 10/22/2013 2:38:40 PM , Rating: 4
I'm not sure why there's this obsession with thickness and weight. I haven't held a tablet in the past couple years that felt too thick or too heavy. Instead of making it thinner and lighter I'd rather they use all that space and weight to improve battery life rather than trying to get bragging rights. At some point too, things just feel so thin and light that they feel fragile and low quality.


RE: "Air"
By Granseth on 10/22/2013 2:55:13 PM , Rating: 2
when you are reading on a tablet weight becomes an issue. I got an Ipad 2 today, and it's to heavy to hold in one hand when I am reading.


RE: "Air"
By Lord 666 on 10/22/2013 2:56:33 PM , Rating: 5
Muscle up buck. Eat some Wheaties.


RE: "Air"
By Granseth on 10/22/2013 3:02:38 PM , Rating: 2

I am hoping for a 9-10" tablet that I am as comfortable holding as a kindle, but with a screen that are good for magazines, video and web surfing


RE: "Air"
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 4:11:11 PM , Rating: 3
Yup. The Kindle Paperwhite e-reader is still the high standard for weight and comfort in a tablet.

Anything to get high-power LCD tablets closer in feel to one is a good thing. The thing I hate the most about the iPad 3 is the bump in weight over the iPad 2. Anything to reduce size and weight while improving performance is cool, so today's upgrades are a step in the right direction.

Getting it to feel like a Kindle e-reader would be amazing.


RE: "Air"
By TakinYourPoints on 10/22/2013 5:21:04 PM , Rating: 2
People who say "the weight is fine" really need use a Kindle.

Having all this power and display quality in a tablet is great, but the physical potential of the form factor was realized years ago with the original Kindle. High end hardware and displays just need to catch up to being in something so light.


RE: "Air"
By troysavary on 10/22/2013 4:03:42 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. I have never picked up any tablet and said "This is too heavy". People really need to get back into shape.


RE: "Air"
By AssBall on 10/22/2013 9:28:12 PM , Rating: 2
Before tablets:

"OMFG Gone with the Wind is SOOOOO heavy! No way I'm reading that!"


RE: "Air"
By flyingpants1 on 10/24/2013 1:52:11 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah okay there tough guy. I have an HP Touchpad. That is DEFINITELY too heavy to be held for any period of time with two hands, let alone one hand. Granted it is one of the heaviest tablets available.

It doesn't hurt or anything, it's just not comfortable past a certain point.


RE: "Air"
By The Von Matrices on 10/26/2013 3:31:20 AM , Rating: 2
That's the problem, you only picked it up. Now try holding it in front of you while reading a book for an hour or holding it over your head while lying down for an hour. Tablet users do this, and weight matters in these situations.


RE: "Air"
By TakinYourPoints on 10/28/2013 11:52:08 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. The Kindle Paperwhite is the gold standard for weight and comfort. The end goal is for high end tablets such as the iPad to get down to that weight.

Technology will catch up, it'll just take time. Until then reducing weight continues to be the most important thing.


RE: "Air"
By tamalero on 10/22/2013 4:20:38 PM , Rating: 2
The older toshiba thrive was pretty thick and heavy.
but it had user changeable battery and a ton of connectivity.


Storage.
By hpglow on 10/22/2013 2:55:53 PM , Rating: 3
I have purchased 6 iPhones and one ipad and even with my heavy investment in the iTunes ecosystem I don't think apple will sell me another phone or tablet. 16GB is just anemic for anyone who stores movies and TV shows. on their device. I would have been willing to eat the $500 price tag if I could at least up my storage capability with an SD card but with the only option being a $100 upgrade for 32 GB I'm out. There is absolutely no reason why any $500 tablet should ship with less than 32GB.




RE: Storage.
By mellomonk on 10/22/2013 3:53:34 PM , Rating: 2
'Storing' movies on a tablet or phone? The more modern concept sees storage on a mobile device as temporary or ever changing. Media 'lives' on a synced computer or best yet in the cloud. It is consumed on or streamed to the tablet or phone. Bandwidth becomes more important then capacity. There are plenty of add on SD card readers for the few folks that need additional removable storage. Personally I've had iPads since iPad2 and haven't needed one. And I watched plenty of video podcasts and movies on mine.


RE: Storage.
By spamreader1 on 10/22/2013 4:02:45 PM , Rating: 2
Who doesn't store movies on thier device? That's one of the key features to me on my nexus 7. Carrying around several movies for those bordom hours.


RE: Storage.
By hpglow on 10/23/2013 3:09:35 AM , Rating: 2
There are many times this is simply not an option for me. Like when I'm on the road with my kid in the back seat. On an airplane or on vacation where there is no cell service. There is no excuse for 16GB of flash to still be the baseline (well other than more profit.) I waited until this launch to decide if I was going to buy another and I think this is the final nail in the Apple coffin for me. I am going to look at my options but right now a Fire HDX with 64 GB of flash for under $500 is looking nice. Of course the fire sale on Nook HDs is making them look good as well.


RE: Storage.
By jimbojimbo on 10/23/2013 10:56:40 AM , Rating: 2
Your solution to the problem, which is a $500 device with only 16GB of storage, is to get a tablet with wireless service as well so now you're looking at $700 for the same 16GB which winds up with data caps and you can't use in an airplane. Great idea.
I got my tablet for $500 and have a 64GB microSD card, about $50 extra. Now I have 80GB of storage for a total of $550. For an iPad you pay $700 for the 64GB model and you're STILL less than 80GB.
Besides, everybody knows you only watch movies on an iPad if you really LOVE huge black borders.


RE: Storage.
By flyingpants1 on 10/24/2013 1:08:05 AM , Rating: 1
I'm so tired of the FRIGGING people who keep saying SD cards are not necessary or not useful. ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?

An SD card allows you to take an entire collection with you, or shoot HOURS of HD video on vacation, worry-free. Without an SD-card, you CAN'T DO ANYTHING, you are limited to 12GB FOREVER!!!!

Constantly syncing on your computer is NOT GOOD. Paying tons of money to watch stuff using data is NOT GOOD. Having to mess with some awful 3rd party microSD adapter is NOT GOOD.

Apple and Google have turned you into morons!! My 5 year old $50 chinese GPS device supports playing MP4 movies off the SD card, for god's sake.

Get with the program. $700 smartphones are a huge scam, carrier subsidies are an even bigger scam, and removing useful features to save $5 in microSD licensing fees to prop up 70% margins on a $700 phone is the biggest scam of all.


RE: Storage.
By retrospooty on 10/24/2013 10:15:03 AM , Rating: 2
Chill man... It's not a one size fits all thing. Clearly they are useful for some people that need the extra storage - your example is a great one. But not everyone needs that. Thus the great thing about options. Those that needs it can buy a model with it, and those that don't can buy one without it. Not really complicated.


RE: Storage.
By Dr of crap on 10/22/2013 3:56:59 PM , Rating: 2
Ummm, don't you know - it's from APPLE!
Come on join us! Spend more than you need to.


RE: Storage.
By hpglow on 10/23/2013 3:15:04 AM , Rating: 2
I really don't mind their premium pricing to a point. But these days I think they are just abusing us (their customers.) The sad thing is they probably could have strung me along for a few more years (in iTunes purchases) had they just put 32GB in the new iPad but instead they chose to put a couple extra up-front dollars in their pockets. Stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime Apple.


iPad 2 for $399
By The Von Matrices on 10/22/2013 4:08:37 PM , Rating: 2
How does Apple justify selling a 3-generation old tablet for $399 at this point? I can understand the display being a major cost of the tablet and thus wanting to keep the low-resolution display to keep costs down, but they couldn't make any changes like a better processor? Anyone who buys an iPad 2 instead of saving another $100 for an iPad Air is crazy.




RE: iPad 2 for $399
By The Von Matrices on 10/22/2013 4:10:23 PM , Rating: 2
Now that I think of it, this is the same idea they used with the iPhone 5C - sell a model that is marginally less expensive and significantly feature reduced. I guess they want to try the foot-in-the-door sales pitch, but if their iPhone 5C sales have showed it doesn't work as well as you would think.


RE: iPad 2 for $399
By flyingpants1 on 10/24/2013 12:55:15 AM , Rating: 2
What exactly did you want? $329/399 for regular ipad, $399/499 for Retina whatever, sounds fine to me.


RE: iPad 2 for $399
By aliasfox on 10/24/2013 9:41:28 AM , Rating: 2
Someone mentioned that it's still on sale for POS solutions, which kinda makes sense. There are plenty of credit card readers, stands etc that are designed for the iPad 2 and the 30 pin connector, and at $399 + POS accessories it's likely still much cheaper than true cash registers.

Would've been better if they re-released it as an iPad 2c with an identically sized plastic case for $249. Imagine the holiday sales on that...


I was excited
By Rage187 on 10/22/2013 2:48:56 PM , Rating: 2
I was really hoping for "cover" to mean new touch-type covers. I am wholly uninspired by all of today's announcements.

Seriously, I would by the Dell Pro Venue 8 over the mini, not just because it is $100 cheaper, but it brings a ton more legacy functionality to the table.




RE: I was excited
By flyingpants1 on 10/24/2013 1:13:03 AM , Rating: 2
The funny thing is these $299 8-inch Venue Pro things could have been made any time in the last 5 years, Intel was just slow on the ball. Probably because of their reluctance to compete in the low-margin ultramobile market


OMG !
By Dr of crap on 10/22/2013 2:40:14 PM , Rating: 3
I'll have to get in line now and wait for them to be in the store, so that I can buy one and have the "latest" tech from Apple!!!!!

After all this is a mind blowing announcement! Wow!




"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine." -- Bill Gates











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