DailyTech - YouTube Banned in Turkey, Again

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Internet YouTube Banned in Turkey, Again
Michael Hoffman (Blog) - September 21, 2007 11:25 AM

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35 comment(s) - last by GlassHouse69.. on Sep 23 at 10:22 PM

YouTube again finds itself banned in Turkey

Once more, Turkey has put the ban on YouTube after a YouTube user reported that the Google-owned video sharing web site had several clips that were considered insulting to several prominent Turkish political figures. The Turkish government then ordered the national telecommunications company to block access to YouTube for all Turkish residents until YouTube agrees to remove the clips.

According to the nation's current penal code, insulting "Turkishness" is a crime that is punishable by law. Turkish courts often press charges against journalists when they mention the Armenian genocide that took place in the early 1900s.

In March, YouTube was banned in Turkey for two days before several "offensive" videos were removed from the web site.

In the most recent ban, a court located in the Turkish city of Sivas ordered the temporary ban because of a video that insults President Abdullah Gul, the nation's modern founder Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and the Turkish army.

Yesterday's ban of YouTube has drawn outrage from the Reporters Without Borders organization, a renowned journalist watchdog group.

"Blocking an entire website because of a few videos is a disproportionate measure," the organization said in an official statement.

Thailand, Morocco and several other nations also imposed bans on YouTube for a number of different reasons.

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Makes sense, right?

By Polynikes on 9/21/2007 2:01:46 PM , Rating: 5

Ban a whole website for a fraction of its content. Sounds about right to me.

/sarcasm

RE: Makes sense, right?

By Christopher1 on 9/21/07, Rating: -1

RE: Makes sense, right?

By smitty3268 on 9/21/2007 4:59:06 PM , Rating: 2

Turkey is a democracy, although "guided" heavily by the military. In fact, didn't the ruling party there just switch after elections?

quote:
The Turkish government forgets that anyone has the right to say anything about the Turkish government, including their own people.

Except that obviously they don't, because it is against their law. The US had some similar laws a long time ago with the Alien and Sedition Act.

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RE: Makes sense, right?

By headbox on 9/21/2007 7:24:18 PM , Rating: 1

Military? Try Islam. Muslims don't believe in freedom or democracy. The move into Europe and America not to join their society, but to take it over and demand they adopt Muslim law. When something offends them, they take it as an offense to Allah. It's a twisted oppressive mindset, and a major factor why they're not in the EU yet.

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RE: Makes sense, right?

By BigReader on 9/21/07, Rating: 0

RE: Makes sense, right?

By smitty3268 on 9/21/2007 8:21:58 PM , Rating: 1

quote:
Muslims don't believe in freedom or democracy.

I don't think that's true at all - it's just that when they have democracy they tend to go by rule of the majority rather than respecting the rights of minorities. That's hardly a flaw specific to Muslims, the difference is that the general population is more religious than the typical European or American.

The Muslim world today is very similar to the Christian one a few hundred years ago, with some obvious differences brought around by globalization.

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RE: Makes sense, right?

By wordsworm on 9/21/07, Rating: -1

By wordsworm on 9/21/2007 9:58:44 PM , Rating: -1

quote:
Muslims don't believe in freedom or democracy.

Iran and Indonesia both have democratic systems where even women are allowed to vote (contrary to what Rice said a few years back). I hate to break this to you, but the USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world. The American neo-Christian mindset is equally disturbing - "One nation under God" is one phrase I hear often enough. Despite having many freedoms outlined in the constitution, any company that wants to repeal those rights can and do. ie, The military girl, Michelle Manhart, who posed in Playboy only to get demoted, demonstrates clearly what freedom of speech means. A school teacher I believe was being displayed naked on the net awhile ago, which resulted in him getting fired. BYU has rules that state coeds don't even have the basic right to have sex. So how is this freedom? If any company or educational institution can do whatever it wants because it doesn't like the morality of an individual on the individual's free time, then it has the right to demote, fire, or expel. That's not freedom unless you mean corporate freedom to repress.

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RE: Makes sense, right?

By afkrotch on 9/22/2007 12:38:06 AM , Rating: 3

Companies have the right to provide a set of guidelines and consequences for failing to meet those guidelines, as you are now a representative of that company. The same can be said for the military, schools, etc.

Michelle Manhart posed in Playboy with her military uniform on. A big no no. The odds are fairly high that if she did not do so, the military would not have cared. As long as she filled out the necessary forms for secondary employment. Nothing in the rules says that she cannot pose nude in Playboy. She just can't do such with her uniform.

The school teacher is different, as well, they are a school teacher. They have a strict image they must uphold. Course such a thing would have been in the news and I haven't seen anything about it.

BYU's rules. As the university is LDS, it's to be expected that you follow their religion's rules. In other words, no sex before marriage and no cheating. Seeing as the majority of Utah is Mormon, I don't see these religion issues being well...an issue.

Either way, all these things are within a company. You by no means need to work there, go to school there, or whatever. None of them can come to my house and tell me not to have sex, pose in Playboy, or pose naked on the web.

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RE: Makes sense, right?

By smitty3268 on 9/22/2007 1:37:55 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
Seeing as the majority of Utah is Mormon, I don't see these religion issues being well...an issue.

But for some reason, it is an issue in the Middle East even though those countries are primarily Muslim and don't see those religion issues being well... an issue.

quote:
None of them can come to my house and tell me not to have sex

Unless you're gay and live in one of the states which have outlawed it...

quote:
Michelle Manhart posed in Playboy with her military uniform on. A big no no. The odds are fairly high that if she did not do so, the military would not have cared. As long as she filled out the necessary forms for secondary employment. Nothing in the rules says that she cannot pose nude in Playboy. She just can't do such with her uniform.

I'm pretty sure the rule she broke didn't care about whether she was wearing a uniform or not, it was something like a morality rule or saying she lost her men's respect or something like that. Something they could basically take and adapt to any situation they wanted to - although I'm sure wearing the uniform probably pissed off her superiors, and they might not have even known otherwise.

Anyway, I agree with you mostly, there is a difference between a private party (especially the military, given it's special nature) imposing some limitation and the whole country doing it. However, I'm not seeing the big difference between Muslim countries and Western. Europe makes it against the law to deny the holocaust. Plenty of people in the US think we should ban flag burning and other things people find offensive. How is that different than Muslims who want to make it against the law to do un-Islamic things? The difference between our countries and theirs are that the rule of law is taken for granted here. That is something that takes a lot of time to build up and it's why Iraq was destined to become as chaotic as it has after we didn't stabilize the country after removing Saddam.

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RE: Makes sense, right?

By rdeegvainl on 9/22/2007 5:04:07 AM , Rating: 2

Yes the rule was mostly the issue with her using her uniform, that is why they punished her. and i haven't heard of any gays being banned from having sex. please state one.

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RE: Makes sense, right?

By smitty3268 on 9/22/2007 12:44:19 PM , Rating: 2

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_200...

"On September 17, 1998, sheriff’s deputies in Houston, Texas arrested Lawrence and Garner in the former’s apartment and charged them with violating the state’s sodomy statute. The police had entered Lawrence’s home because a homophobic neighbor, trying to get the two openly gay men in trouble, had called the police claiming that a man with a gun was in the apartment. (The neighbor was later arrested and prosecuted for filing a false police report.) Once in the apartment, the police discovered the two—now very startled—men engaged in either oral or anal sex (no one will say which) and they did what any good Texas police officers would do: they arrested them. Both men were jailed overnight and eventually convicted of a Class C misdemeanor and fined $200 each (the court could have fined them up to $500)."

"The Texas law, while odious, isn’t all that unique. Originally written in 1860 to prohibit “sodomy”— defined as oral or anal sex—by any couple, it was rewritten in 1974 (at the height of the sexual revolution) to apply only to homosexual couples. At that time, 33 states had similar laws, some of which restricted the private, consensual sexual conduct of homosexuals only."

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Chris Crocker?

By grath on 9/21/2007 2:08:08 PM , Rating: 5

If he is now the poster boy of the month for YouTube then they have bigger problems than Turkey...

RE: Chris Crocker?

By onereddog on 9/23/2007 8:47:17 AM , Rating: 2

It's people like him that make youtube great.

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Be careful guys

By Shark Tek on 9/21/2007 3:08:21 PM , Rating: 2

We don't want DailyTech banned too....

RE: Be careful guys

By KristopherKubicki

(blog) on 9/21/2007 3:54:12 PM , Rating: 2

DailyTech is blocked in some parts of China. I've been able to view it from Shanghai and Hong Kong, but on my most recent trip to Shenzhen the site was unreachable.

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RE: Be careful guys

By TomZ on 9/21/2007 3:57:40 PM , Rating: 2

I think the server was just down again that day.

kidding... :o)

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oh good i nearly spit out the water i was drinking in laughter

By ForumMaster on 9/21/2007 5:40:50 PM , Rating: 1

perfect pic DT. god that vid of that bitch (still don't know if it's a guy or a girl) was sobbing about britney spears was pathetic.

link to vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

nice pic!

RE: oh good i nearly spit out the water i was drinking in laughter

By TomZ on 9/21/2007 6:29:57 PM , Rating: 2

That guy's a moron.

I didn't catch the reference at first - that's pretty funny.

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RE: oh good i nearly spit out the water i was drinking in laughter

By siberus on 9/21/2007 9:43:17 PM , Rating: 2

Leave Chris Alone! ;_;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCZSDxA8_JA

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typo

By 1337n00blar on 9/21/2007 2:02:39 PM , Rating: 2

ptu = put

RE: typo

By GoodBytes on 9/21/2007 2:47:26 PM , Rating: 2

One more = Once more

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And these people want to be in the EU?

By sh3rules on 9/21/2007 5:46:40 PM , Rating: 2

I don't see Turkey changing their primitive ways, even after admission. Of course, as long as the European political elite listens to the referendums, Turkey will never be in the EU.

IMO Turkey is an Islamic country masquerading as a secular democracy. They're not; most of them are Muslims. The president's wife wears a headscarf, FFS.

RE: And these people want to be in the EU?

By EuroGamer on 9/22/2007 9:53:48 AM , Rating: 2

What, people aren't allowed to wear headscarfs anymore? From what I know, she isn't actually doing anything politcal, she's just married to a politcal man.

As if presidents and first ladies in the US don't follow their faith...

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so...

By Gul Westfale on 9/21/2007 10:19:45 PM , Rating: 2

so the two people in turkey who actually own computers won't be able to watch that fat kid sing baby got back over the walmart PA anymore. this could lead to rioting...

on a more serious note, i think that censorship is

a) retarded; if you want freedom of speech but only for those who agree with you then you don't really want freedom of speech, and if you don't have that then you do not live in a free democratic country. none of us really do, but at least in the west the censoring and limits to our freedoms are a bit less obvious (for the time being lol)

b) practically unenforceable; the content that got youtube banned can be uploaded to any number of sites thus they'd have to disconnect all internet in turkey to actually stop people from seeing this. bans like that only give the offending content more publicity, so they are really only shooting themselves in the foot here.

RE: so...

By mindless1 on 9/22/2007 2:16:33 AM , Rating: 2

No, not really shooting themselves in the foot at all. Blocking it doesn't have to be 100% absolute, but it will effectively censor UTube from the majority of the population who either don't know how to get around the block, or are too lazy to bother. They don't have to prevent every last citizen from seeing a video to (perceive that it will) limit it's impact by greatly decreasing the exposure to it.

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If I was YouTube...

By xphile on 9/22/2007 5:10:52 AM , Rating: 3

I'd reply to their request asking for the videos to be removed as follows:

Dear Turkey

We are extremely sorry this content has offended you. Because of the nature of our website we can never control the exact content matter that gets posted to it, however we do our utmost to be responsive in these sort of situations.

This has happened in the past and will inevitability happen again. We can not stop this possibility without fundamentally changing the nature of the website, something we are not prepared to do.

We do appreciate this is an extreme concern to your country as this is the second time this has occurred. We at YouTube are very committed to finding solutions to such serious problems and we are pleased to advise we have indeed been able to do so in this instance as well.

From midnight tonight Eastern US time, all IP addresses emanating from Turkey will be banned from accessing our web site. You will not have this problem again, and none of your citizens will ever be offended.

If you change your mind please do let us know, by postal mail of course - your emails will no longer reach us as of tomorrow, and here at YouTube we use Voip voice protocol telephony.

yours sincerely

Chad Hurley

PS: By the way, YouTube is a Google company. So as to secure your citizens from any possibility of any other kind of offense, the above changes will be applied to all Google websites across the board. We trust you will now be able to have a full and satisfying, unoffended internet experience.

Circumvent ban

By toongeorges on 9/21/2007 2:56:59 PM , Rating: 2

Put up an apache server in a country where YouTube isn't blocked, make the server a proxy to YouTube (2 lines in the /etc/http.d/conf/httpd.conf file) and browse to your server.

That is what it takes to circumvent the ban. Unless Turkey would ban all the servers that could access YouTube also. Though putting down the whole internet so only YouTube could not be accessed would be rather drastic.

Why comply?

By lagomorpha on 9/21/2007 3:05:17 PM , Rating: 2

It surprises me that youtube complied with the Turkish government. Any ban the Turks could come up with (great firewall of china style included) isn't likely to reduce youtube's revenue from Turkey much as Turks will just find ways around it. What could they do declare a Fatwa on YouTube?

whoc ares

By BillyBatson on 9/21/2007 5:06:58 PM , Rating: 2

If they want to live in the dark let them. The more they react to simple words or "videos" the more people believe the words rather than letting them go.
They also need to just admit that the Armenian Genocide happened and stop trying to convine the world that it's made up.

We can still reach youtube from Turkey,

By selimank on 9/21/2007 6:45:11 PM , Rating: 2

We have stupid law of Information Technology. YT will be open in several days. However, We can still reach to YT :). It is not close yet :).

Facts about Turkey...

By EuroGamer on 9/22/2007 1:57:19 AM , Rating: 2

Obviously some of you don't seem to know that much about Turkey in general. I mean, sure it's a Muslim country but judging on what some of you are posting, we'd say they are the next Iran when nothing could be further from the truth.

For months now, Turkey has had riots about their latest President who is Muslim, because they NEED / WANT a separation of Religion and State (that's where the military comes in, helping keep those barriers separate) unlike some other countries... They're quite secular when it comes to their Government.

As for the ban of YouTube, it might be a bit too much on their part, but people must understand freedom isn't just like in America where anyone can do anything. Some countries need to enforce rules and as long as their population is OKAY with it (trust me, if this was some major problem with the Turks, they'd be tons of riots all over but all is quiet!!!), then who cares?

I'm surprised no one has brought up...

By GodisanAtheist on 9/22/2007 2:16:25 PM , Rating: 2

... the fact that removing these videos from Youtube isn't just censorship of the Turkish population, but of Youtube's population.

Expatriated Turks, Ethnic Kurds and anyone else that might wish to view these videos that doesn't live in Turkey would then have to deal with rooting around less accessible sites to hear what the video's authors had to say.

In effect, Turkey's insecurities are affecting policy on a population much larger than its own, and over individuals that it has absolutely no jurisdiction over.

Prejudges:(

By lulali on 9/22/2007 2:26:17 PM , Rating: 2

Hey,

Firstly i am a Turkish guy from Istanbul. I saw YouTube ban news first at neowin.net two days ago then just browse the youtube and it was ok.Now i browsed to youtube and it is still accesible. So the news are not correct.

But my subject is not the correctness of the news. I saw that most of you can jugde a nation without knowing anything about them. If i say we are demecrotic or we are respectfull to the human rights or you can do whatever you want in Turkey. Don't believe me! Cus i am turkish and i can't be totally objective.

If you have any friends that visited Turkey please ask them about our lifestyle. as a part of university students organizastion me and my firends organizing courses and we have lots of friends from europe. When I talked with them, i see that the Turkey before their visit was totally different. They were expecting to see camels, deserts, totally closed womens. But all their prejudges are changed after having two weeks in istanbul. even most of them were thinking that men can marry with more than one women. :(

as a citizen of Turkey i am reaally sad of wrong prejudges about us. So what i want from people who didnt visit turkey is please ask your friends that visited turkey. they can tell u the real face of us.

Regards
Ugur

how moral

By GlassHouse69 on 9/23/2007 10:22:31 PM , Rating: 2

I wish they would have banned the genocide of Catholics.

I guess the banning of youtube is a more moral choice.

I just love our allies.

Long live America!

The Turks are very SENSITIVE

By Dactyl on 9/21/2007 3:02:43 PM , Rating: 1

The first YouTube ban was because there was a video that claimed Ataturk was gay (which is common knowledge to historians).

Everybody knows that Ataturk was very gay. He had four husbands and for ten years in a row he was the grand marshall of the Ankara Pride Parade.

He wore a pink sash and would giggle like a schoolgirl while saying things like "Within the political and social unity of today's Turkish nation, there are citizens and co-nationals who have been incited to think of themselves as Kurds, Circassians, Laz or Bosnians. But these erroneous terms have brought nothing but sorrow to individual members of the nation, with the exception of a few brainless reactionaries, who became the enemy's instruments."

(okay, I made up all of those facts except the quote, and there is no evidence that Ataturk was gay, but if saying so makes censors mad, then I want to say so. Maybe Turkey will ban DT. There is plenty of evidence that Ataturk brutally suppressed ethnic minorities, and that in general he was a little Hitler. If you believe everything you see in a YouTube propaganda video, then you're an idiot.)