Print 43 comment(s) - last by cpeter38.. on Feb 11 at 11:38 AM

Yahoo!: "It ain't our fault"

We first heard in early January that some users of Windows Phone 7 devices were experiencing higher than expected "phantom" data downloads. Some users sat helplessly as their smartphones ate through 30 to 50MB per day of data (even with no user intervention) -- some even experienced higher data utilization.

Microsoft would later blame the anomaly on a "third-party solution", and the company yesterday confirmed that Yahoo! Mail was the cause of all the phantom data problems.

In Microsoft's official response yesterday, the company made it seem as though it was a mutual discovery and that the two companies were hard at work on delivering a fix to users.

Today, however, Yahoo! is firing back and has basically thrown Microsoft under the bus over the issues. Yahoo! provided the following statement to Ars Technica regarding Microsoft's implementation of IMAP for Yahoo! Mail on Windows Phone 7 devices:

Yahoo! Mail is widely available on tens of millions of mobile phones, including those running on Apple iOS, Android, Nokia Symbian, and RIM. The issue on the Windows Phones is specific to how Microsoft chose to implement IMAP for Yahoo! Mail and does not impact Yahoo! Mail on these other mobile devices. Yahoo! has offered to provide Microsoft a near-term solution for the implementation they chose, and is encouraging Microsoft to change to a standard way of integrating with Yahoo! Mail, which would result in a permanent fix.

So it looks as though no other smartphone platforms are having a problem, leaving Microsoft with a bit of egg on its face with this issue. For users that are affected by this problem, you can either follow Microsoft's guidelines on how to alleviate the problem or wait for the official fix that is coming in a "near-term end user update."

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I see a solution
By Flunk on 2/2/2011 1:44:21 PM , Rating: 5
I think the solution for this is obvious, quit using Yahoo mail. Everyone else did 10 years ago anyway.

RE: I see a solution
By SongEmu on 2/2/2011 1:49:46 PM , Rating: 5
y helo thar, gMail...

RE: I see a solution
By GuinnessKMF on 2/2/2011 5:02:50 PM , Rating: 2
I'm willing to bet that according to the IMAP spec WinMo7 is operating correctly, that Yahoo did something stupid in the API and all other carriers respond to such stupid requests with "No one would want to do that", and ignore whatever dumb deprecated parameter was passed (or whatever), whereas WinMo7, responded with "Okay, you're the customer" and treated the spec as written.

RE: I see a solution
By vol7ron on 2/4/2011 11:23:23 AM , Rating: 2
We'd need to see more into this, but I wouldn't use the "it works on other OSes" excuse. Even if the app looks the "same", the OSes use different compilations, code, and frameworks. The programs are not the same. It's like comparing lemons to limes; they're close, but not quite equal.

RE: I see a solution
By phatboye on 2/2/11, Rating: -1
RE: I see a solution
By Mitch101 on 2/2/2011 3:09:21 PM , Rating: 1
Im sorry Im going to reply.

Everyone knows what an iPhone is.
Everyone knows what a Droid is.
Barely any consumers know what a WinMo 7 is.

Nobody thought the Droid could comepete with the iPhone and its doing pretty good in sales. Shouldnt the iPhone have killed droid wasnt it the end all be all of Phones? Now that Droid is out who could possibly make a good enough smartphone and be bold enough to release it to compete with just perfect phones like the Droid and iPhone?

The fact that Microsoft sold 2 million WinMo 7 GEN 1 devices with competitors like the iPhone 4th generation and Droid, they 4th now too?, devices as alternatives and 2 million people picked the WinMo 7 device over iPhone 4 and Droid 2.x devices. Thats pretty damn impressive and even more is that WinMo 7 gen 1 device outpaced the original iPhone and Original Droid and look at the Droid now? I dont believe anyone was bragging about Droid 1.6 but it was enough. WinMo 7 has just enough to bring in sales even more when the first patch comes out on the 7th.

RE: I see a solution
By mixelplick on 2/2/2011 3:21:32 PM , Rating: 2
Actually they sold 2 million phones to mobile operators and retailers, they haven't said how many were actually purchased by consumers.

RE: I see a solution
By Mitch101 on 2/2/2011 3:37:24 PM , Rating: 1
Would you keep excess inventory of Windows Mobile phones you might not be able to sell after the KIN? Would you manufacture 2 million phones of a device that isnt selling?

I dont think any phone carrier or manufacturer would want to get caught with an excess inventory of any phone not selling.

You wouldnt be in business very long if that were the case.

RE: I see a solution
By mcnabney on 2/2/2011 4:13:41 PM , Rating: 3
To be more clear.

Microsoft sold 2 million WP7 OS licenses.

Possibly even refundable, so who knows what the actual stock numbers and sales figures are.

RE: I see a solution
By Smilin on 2/3/2011 10:35:18 AM , Rating: 2
It doesn't work that way. It's software. You don't have to maintain your supply in a warehouse for fluctuations in demand. You click a mouse button and more "product" appears.

You can bet that there will be a slight difference in licenses sold to phones sold as batches of phones are manufactured but that difference will be slight and temporary.

You also don't sell a bunch of something that the customer doesn't need to inflate sales numbers. You'll just pay for it by missing your target the next month. It's called "channel stuffing" and it will get sales people fired immediately.

For this 2 million means 2 million.

RE: I see a solution
By Strunf on 2/3/2011 12:20:29 PM , Rating: 2
No company well managed buys licenses ahead of time, there will never be a short supply of licenses and it takes no time to get them, buying them ahead of time is wasting money, and even if they are refundable it's another extra step to get it and hence even further waste of money.

RE: I see a solution
By cpeter38 on 2/11/2011 11:38:29 AM , Rating: 2
One more category to consider - how many phones were bought and returned??

I tried a Samsung Focus (WP7) and returned it the next day. It turns out that WP7 has lost the USB based Outlook Sync capability that was available in WP6. Unfortunately, their Exchange Server implementation does not work with our custom VPN solution. Not surprisingly, the Hotmail/Windows Live solution that they are pushing is also a complete non-starter with corporate IT.

Bottom line?

WP7 is not ready for business!

Until MS fixes Outlook syncing, they are cutting off a large part of their legacy customers.

RE: I see a solution
By Lifted on 2/2/2011 9:46:10 PM , Rating: 2

Look it up.

RE: I see a solution
By Warwulf on 2/2/2011 3:24:05 PM , Rating: 4
Windows Phone 7 isn't a first a first gen device or OS. It's the 7th, assuming you're not counting Windows Mobile 6.5 as a full version.

Are you referring to Droid, as in the Motorola brand of Android phones? Or as in Android based phones? By the context, it seems you might be referring to Android,

RE: I see a solution
By Mitch101 on 2/2/2011 3:49:26 PM , Rating: 2
Mobile 6.5 was a business orientated device.

Mobile 7 is Microsofts first real Consumer device designed to compete with the iPhone and Droid market and Microsoft stated they threw out all previous designs for something entirely new. Your right in that its a product refresh more than a 1st gen but its like comparing DOS to Windows 7 so entirely different it might as well be 1st gen. It is for Microsoft to make a consumer based Phone.

You are correct on the android front my point is the current version os android wasnt worth bragging about but they eventually got the job done in competing with Apple and Microsoft has already sold more than androids original launch making for actually a very good start. it worked for Android and could very well work in time for Microsoft.

RE: I see a solution
By Mitch101 on 2/2/2011 3:51:27 PM , Rating: 2
Meant to say first version of android wasnt worth bragging about but it got the job done in the end.

RE: I see a solution
By theapparition on 2/3/2011 9:23:46 AM , Rating: 2
"Droid" is not the Moto brand of Android phones. It's Verizon's brand. They licensed the term from Lucasfilm.

The Incredible, also part of the droid line, is made by HTC. Samsung Fascinate doesn't get the Droid moniker since it uses Bing services in place of many of the Google ones.

RE: I see a solution
By theapparition on 2/3/2011 9:25:39 AM , Rating: 2
And WTF is up with the spam filter? I had to truncate and edit the above post because it kept getting flagged.

Please DT, fix the settings. You would think that someone with over 2k posts wouldn't be posting spam.

RE: I see a solution
By CZroe on 2/2/2011 4:42:56 PM , Rating: 3
Droid != Android

Only Verizon has licensed the word "Droid" from Lucasfilm for promoting a SPECIFIC line of Android phones for their network. There is no "Droid 1.6." The is ANdroid 1.6.

And you keep capitalizing it so don't say you're just shortening it. That would be " 'droid " with an apostrophe.

RE: I see a solution
By GuinnessKMF on 2/2/2011 5:04:55 PM , Rating: 2
Which was brilliant marketing on the part of Verizon, but you're absolutely right, most people cannot seem to keep an OS and device separate.

RE: I see a solution
By Aloonatic on 2/2/2011 2:40:42 PM , Rating: 1
Maybe you should try using it again now, if you want to use web mail. Their interface is a millon times better than anything that MS or Google have managed to scrape together for their web mail.

Or is this just one of those "look at me, I hate some other company that's not MS" things that always go down well on DT? Especially when there is history of troubles between the company in question and MS.

RE: I see a solution
By quiksilvr on 2/2/2011 2:47:03 PM , Rating: 4
Oh yeah, because this flustercuck:

Is so much easier to navigate through than this:

RE: I see a solution
By Aloonatic on 2/2/2011 6:01:59 PM , Rating: 2
Well, actually, yeah. Once you've started to sort your mail into multiple folders, I found that the yahoo interface is much easier, but I guess it's all subjective.

Maybe it's just me tho, but I can easily tune out the news/home screen and click on inbox, to get my mail, but there you go. Many people do like that sort of thing too, anyway. Also, the messenger/IM chat seems to work much better too, in my experiance.

Oh well, I hatez Yahoo, Iz I kool now?

*rolls eyes*

RE: I see a solution
By quiksilvr on 2/4/2011 8:55:16 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, you can easily tune out virtually anything, but if there is an easy alternative in where I don't have to, why put up with it in the first place?

RE: I see a solution
By nafhan on 2/2/2011 3:24:45 PM , Rating: 2
I use a Yahoo account as my secondary email, and I find the interface to be very reminiscent of desktop mail clients like Outlook. If you're a big fan of the preview pane, Yahoo mail may be for you. Not really sure how it's "millions of times better", though - especially since MS makes Outlook and Outlook web access, who's look and feel Yahoo mail is clearly taking some hints from.
My preference is for Gmail's less cluttered look and tighter integration with other Google services.

RE: I see a solution
By Aloonatic on 2/2/2011 6:10:22 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, maybe "a million times better" was a mild exaggeration.

However, to me, gMail and hotmail style interfaces can rapidly become a nightmare if not kept on top off, whilst also looking like some cheap student-ware, written in a couple of days.

Perhaps if I used more Google services, I might be a little more forgiving about it I guess.

Anyway, I was more just defending yahoo a little I guess, as it came as no surprise to me to see them attacked on here, as they have caused MS a little embarrassment. Not for the quality of their services, really, but (if the OP was being honest) they were just looking for any excuse to write something negative about yahoo, just because they have caused MS some embarrassment.

RE: I see a solution
By dark matter on 2/4/2011 2:42:29 AM , Rating: 1
And yet still you continue with your blathering.

RE: I see a solution
By SSDMaster on 2/2/2011 3:54:20 PM , Rating: 1
I would rate you down if I had any more votes left.

RE: I see a solution
By inighthawki on 2/2/2011 4:03:21 PM , Rating: 2
Well then it's a good thing you posted a reply so that all of your current votes can get removed and make you unable to vote anymore...

RE: I see a solution
By GuinnessKMF on 2/2/2011 5:06:16 PM , Rating: 4
I'm voting you up.

RE: I see a solution
By Aloonatic on 2/2/2011 5:55:02 PM , Rating: 1
Of course you would. I am not sure why you are trying to prove my point about this pllace being full of butthurt MS fanboys who hate other companies, especially any other companies who don't kneel before hem as readily as most of you would love to do, but thanks anyway :o)

RE: I see a solution
By tharik on 2/3/11, Rating: 0
More than egg... doodoo!
By Belard on 2/2/2011 2:45:02 PM , Rating: 2
Its both of their faults. But if MS is doing something NON-STANDARD, (because Microsoft never ever does anything that is non-standard) then its goes back to them.

A solution of course... don't buy a 1st gen Microsoft product.

RE: More than egg... doodoo!
By dsx724 on 2/2/2011 2:49:53 PM , Rating: 5
Microsoft follows IMAP protocol standards. Yahoo's email servers do not follow IMAP protocol standards and resort to using hacks to making it work. How is this Microsoft's fault? That's like blaming Google Chrome for conforming to W3 XHTML.

RE: More than egg... doodoo!
By Belard on 2/2/2011 4:33:28 PM , Rating: 2

Where is such info... both are pointing fingers in each other.

RE: More than egg... doodoo!
By GuinnessKMF on 2/2/2011 5:07:55 PM , Rating: 4
"Where is such info... both are pointing fingers in each other."

Well there's your problem...

Historical reference
By bitterman0 on 2/2/2011 3:19:43 PM , Rating: 2
... leaving Microsoft with a bit of cake on its face ...

Now it is phrased correctly with respect to historical context.

RE: Historical reference
By petrosy on 2/2/11, Rating: 0
RE: Historical reference
By Brandon Hill on 2/2/2011 5:07:49 PM , Rating: 2
Are you referring to the pie that Bill Gates in the face a while back?

RE: Historical reference
By bitterman0 on 2/2/2011 6:29:54 PM , Rating: 2
Yup. Nice to see that someone still remembers and understands the reference :) For whatever reason people are more preoccupied with memorizing Princess Bride quotes and whatnot...

Sorry Yahoo its you
By Mitch101 on 2/2/2011 1:50:14 PM , Rating: 4
Im sorry Yahoo but ive been down this road before with your e-mail and improperly structured data in messages causing issues with just about every mail client out there. It was especially prevelent when a message goes back about and forth about 6 times.

Ive seen yahoo message formats mess up outlook and mess up other mail clients like thunderbird because of improperly encapsulated content and invalid characters. Yahoo message encapsulation/response is garbage. I prefer to receive e-mail from AOL in thier rich text format than Yahoo mail.

By InternetGeek on 2/2/2011 2:04:24 PM , Rating: 2

By adiposity on 2/2/2011 5:58:04 PM , Rating: 2
It! sure! is! annoying! to! have! all! those! exclamation! points! in! Yahoo!'s email!

Maybe they should have thought twice about that name.

"People Don't Respect Confidentiality in This Industry" -- Sony Computer Entertainment of America President and CEO Jack Tretton

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