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  (Source: Jason Mick/DailyTech LLC)
From the smartphone to the game console, Microsoft thinks it can make one size fit all

At an investor meeting sponsored by UBS AG (VTX:UBSN), outgoing Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) Devices and Services Executive Vice President (EVP) Julie Larson-Green laid out a bold roadmap for unifying all of Microsoft's consumer-facing operating systems into a single chameleon-esque operating system that can blend optimally into any hardware niche by tuning its metadata.

I. Windows Chameleon: Blending Into Every Niche

Ms. Larson-Green -- who is at least briefly being demoted from her post of executive vice president of Devices and Services to make way for incoming former Nokia Oyj. (HEX:NOK1V) CEO Stephen Elop -- told the gathered crowd of investors:

We have the Windows Phone OS. We have Windows RT and we have full Windows. We're not going to have three.
Julie Larson-Green

She elaborates on this vision -- which drove the restructuring that outgoing CEO Steve Ballmer set into motion -- remarking:

I think that was the genesis for the restructuring in the company, because we have all the elements. We have talented hardware engineers. We have a great platform for building applications on top of those devices, an application platform that scales from mobile devices to giant large screen devices to your living room. And we have the services that match those things up.

And we're uniquely positioned to bring all those thing together. So they're structuring around one strategy for the company rather than made up of individual business groups with the best of intentions, but their own P&L concerns, we're able to focus the research as a company in a new direction. I think it will help us move faster. Of course, the acquisition of Nokia helps as well to give us the engineering muscle, and the muscle in inventory management and manufacturing to scale quickly.

Technical details of Microsoft's "one vision" were a bit scarce, and some may react with skepticism given Ms. Larson-Green's (at least temporarily) decreased role at Microsoft.  However, there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that can be used to confirm that it at least appears Microsoft is on this path.  For example Windows RT and Windows Phone share about 33 percent of their API.

"Windows Blue" (aka Windows Phone 8.1) -- the rumored successor to Windows Phone 8 Update 3 (GDR3) -- is rumored to land sometime next year and attain roughly 77 percent "API unity" between Windows Phone and Windows RT, according to sources cited by Microsoft insider and Windows Supersite blogger Paul Thurrott.  That high amount of overlap may be sufficient to brand all sizes of touch-screen devices "Windows Blue" devices, leaving Visual Studio and its SDKs to sort out the non-overlapping APIs.

Windows Blue
[Image Source: NeoWin]

Sources report that if Windows Blue does blanket tablets and laptops it will likely be more Windows Phone than Windows RT.  Mr. Thurrott writes:

Where GDR3 is widely expected to support 5- to 6-inch screens, 8.1 will supposedly support 7- to 10-inch screens as well. This obviously infringes on Windows RT/8.x tablets, so it's not clear what the thinking is there.

Windows RT's codebase is reportedly more cumbersome and complex than Windows Phone, hence Microsoft engineers are finding internally that it may be wiser to simple "scale up" the mobile OS.

Windows RT
Microsoft may scuttle Windows RT[Image Source: TalkVietnam]

Currently, Windows 8.1 and the operating system aboard the Xbox One appear to have at least 50 percent API unity, as you can use most Windows 8.1 compatible Windows Store apps directly on the Xbox One.  The only incompatibility between the two platforms is that Windows 8.1 PCs can't play Xbox One games, given the specialized gaming graphics hardware required for optimal performance.  But in time that small barrier may fade as well -- the Xbox may simply become a high-end enthusiast PC, marketed as a "game console", but with near-complete software compatibility with Windows.
 
II. Microsoft to Trim, Merge Consumer OS Brands to Just Two by 2015?
 
According to ZDNet Windows-centric columnist Mary Jo Foley by 2015 Microsoft will likely have two operating systems -- one for standard x86 Windows in tablet, hybrid, laptop, desktop, and Xbox One forms -- and the other for ARM-based wearables, phones, phablets, tablets, hybrids, and laptops.
 

Already Microsoft's defacto OS for phablets, Windows Phone will likely be scaled up, allowing Windows RT to be dumped.

In the future these two OS brands are expected to merge into a single OS brand, which covers all products.  Developers will write code based on a unified API, and then see their app made available to all platforms simultaneous (or in the case of performance-sensitive apps such as games, or apps requiring certain features like touch, to all compatible platforms).  This will essentially mean developers will no longer have to worry about developing for ARM vs. x86 devices or smartphones versus tablets (beyond some minor metadata tweaking to account for screen size).

Stephen Elop
Stephen Elop (left) is expected by some to become the next CEO of Microsoft, replacing outgoing CEO Steven Ballmer (right).  That move would likely put Ms. Larson-Green back in her former post. [Image Source: Reuters]

Ms. Larson-Green indicates that Microsoft will stick to its guns with the coloroful first-party Windows 8.x "Surface" line of touch laptop-tablet hybrids, despite poor sales (which notably forced Microsoft to take a $900M USD charge on unsold inventory in Q2 2013).  She argues that the first-party brand is vital as it allows Microsoft to directly find out what the challenges on the hardware side are without having to rely on OEMs.  By the sound of it Nokia Devices will be rebranded as "Surface" phones.  She comments:

Surface has been a fun project, really when we created it we created it to be a stage for Windows 8, to be the representation of the experience that we were trying to create. The combination of powerful productivity when you plug in the keyboard, but also the simplicity of a tablet when you don't and touch interaction as a first-class way of interacting with the device. We've learned a lot both in the operating system and changes we made in 8.1 to respond to customer feedback and make that experience smoother. And we've also learned on the hardware with, longer battery life and lighter weight. But, we also are continuing to innovate in thinking about the docking station or that touch-first keyboard, or some of the things that we're doing that are unique.

So on the touch cover you can swipe, on Windows 8 you can swipe from the sides. You can use the keyboard now to swipe, as well, or run your finger along the top of the keys to erase words on a Word document. So really working on scenarios and efficiency.

But, more so going forward, Surface is a stage for all of Microsoft, not just for Windows 8. So it brings together the best that Microsoft has to offer, with Skype, with SkyDrive, with all the things the Microsoft does, powered by Bing, and Bing search. And so it brings the full value of Microsoft into on one device. There's different sizes, different price points, new hardware technologies and opportunities. There's all kinds of things that we're working on.

Surface 2

In her Q&A responses -- which tended to be ambiguous, lengthy, and somewhat wandering -- Ms. Larson-Green also discusses Microsoft's belief that wearables and home systems will be two key emerging markets.  She also mentions that cloud computing will increasingly reduce the dependence on hardware from a computation perspective, freeing hardware designers to focus device-side effort on I/O and battery life.  However, she says that dedicated, high-power PC or console hardware will always be better at accomplishing some tasks, so there will be an ongoing market for it in the future.
 
It remains to be seen where Ms. Larson-Green winds up next.  One much-rumored possibility is that Stephen Elop will be appointed Microsoft's next CEO and Ms. Larson-Green will regain her EVP spot steering the devices division.  If that doesn't happen the former EVP could either continue to work as a deputy in the devices division for Mr. Elop, or be shuffled to the Windows team to help with the process of unifying the various branches of the Windows tree.

Source: UBS [Office App]





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About Time
By ogar on 11/25/2013 9:12:51 PM , Rating: 5
About Time. Microsoft should have had this plan all along. The fact they have 4 different operating systems and expect it to all work together was a mistake.




RE: About Time
By Reclaimer77 on 11/25/2013 9:23:42 PM , Rating: 5
Unifying everything under the worst graphical UI to come out in decades isn't working out so good either.


RE: About Time
By StevoLincolnite on 11/25/2013 10:14:04 PM , Rating: 5
Well. I didn't care much for it on my Desktop with triple 1440P monitors, thus I eventually "downgraded" back to Windows 7.

It is however downright fantastic on Windows Phone, it works really really well on such devices.


RE: About Time
By troysavary on 11/25/13, Rating: -1
RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 8:08:32 AM , Rating: 3
That is where the new start screen on 8 is the worst if you ask me. The bigger the monitor/desktop space the worse the start screen is in use. Totally inefficient and distracting. YOu have work going on on all 3 monitors and you hit the start button and lose focus on all 3 - awful UI.


RE: About Time
By Labotomizer on 11/26/2013 9:05:43 AM , Rating: 5
Have you used Windows 8 on multi-monitor? I have to really wonder. The start screen opens on one, it doesn't open on all three. And it opens on whichever monitor you're currently on. Plus, the ability to have a small metro app, such as Skype, open on the edge of one of the monitors is even more helpful.

I get you don't like the UI changes but you should refrain from just making things up.


RE: About Time
By eek2121 on 11/26/13, Rating: -1
RE: About Time
By Monkey's Uncle on 11/26/2013 3:10:40 PM , Rating: 3
Why would I want to PAY a third party to provide the functionality that Microsoft should never have removed? Why would I pay for an operating system that does not work the way that Microsoft trained me over the last 20 years?

Just so I can run their latest operating system? What exactly does Windows 8+ do for me that I can't do in Windows 7?

I have been running Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 in Virual Machines for quite a while now and I can see absolutely nowhere that Windows 8+ is better than Windows 7. So what is in Windows 8+ that could possibly entice me to move away from Windows 7? The whole Metro infrastructure does absolutely nothing at all for me except to get in my way.


RE: About Time
By SPOOFE on 11/26/2013 6:16:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why would I want to PAY a third party to provide the functionality that Microsoft should never have removed?

Because then you get the functionality that Microsoft DID add - mentioned earlier - as well as the functionality that they removed. Total cost? Five bucks on top of the ~$100 that you paid for Windows in the first place. Yikes! What an expense! I can almost buy a whole pack of cigarettes for that price!


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 9:43:27 PM , Rating: 3
Classic shell is free as are many others. Why reward MS with a purchase for breaking the UI in order to further a misguided agenda?


RE: About Time
By SPOOFE on 11/27/2013 4:41:58 AM , Rating: 2
I don't see how giving someone else money (or not, if there is a free option) constitutes "rewarding MS".


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/27/2013 6:54:53 AM , Rating: 2
Assuming you are using Win8 legally with a purchased copy, then its rewarding MS.


RE: About Time
By Bateluer on 11/26/2013 6:31:02 PM , Rating: 1
There's also ClassicShell and StartIsBack. But why should a user have to download an addon app, or pay for one in the case of StartIsBack/Start8, just to get a usable UI on their PC?

I have dual 1440p panels myself, and Windows 8 Pro ran its start screen across both 27in displays. Stuck with Win7 when I rebuilt it in September, prior to 8.1s release. Never again.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 9:41:16 PM , Rating: 2
"http://blogs.msdn.com/b/rob/archive/2012/06/19/win..."


Exactly.

"I have dual 1440p panels myself, and Windows 8 Pro ran its start screen across both 27in displays. Stuck with Win7 when I rebuilt it in September, prior to 8.1s release. Never again."

And exactly.


RE: About Time
By croc on 11/26/2013 11:53:29 PM , Rating: 2
I can think of about NZD 450 reasons to stick with windows 7 at this point, and the first is that I have to pony up an additional NZD 5 to make something work the way I want - sort of.

Yes, I know that 8.1 is the bees knees, that it is better in every way, that it is more secure, less buggy, I've heard all the fanboi blather until I am blue in the ears. (Of course, I don't actually OWN a grain of salt large enough to believe it all...)

But, with all of the fanbois raving on about how much better my life will be, no one can give me a compelling reason for me to part with NZD 450 to replace something that is arguably better for my purposes, and is already PAID for. If some raving lunatic of a fanboi is willing to donate me a box of 8.1 professional 64 bit non-oem, then I'll certainly give it a good lashing. Anyone? Hello?


RE: About Time
By troysavary on 11/27/2013 2:47:24 AM , Rating: 2
Nobody is suggesting you go out and buy 8. I was responding to someone who removed 8 from a computer that shipped with it to go back to 7 when he had a specific usage scenario that 8 is better at. If that makes me a "raving lunatic of a fanboi", so be it. But, whatever, you read on some blog that 8 sucks, so it must be true. Never mind listening to people who have been using it for more than a year.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 11:00:26 AM , Rating: 4
Yes I have and it's UI totally sucks. I used it at home on a custom built DT for 6 months and at work on a LT for 3 and found it ... lacking, 99% of which was all UI related. It just made me inefficient. I have been all through it and debated it with a dozen people here, there is nothing you are going to say to change my mind, or use it again ever until they fix the UI to a non-tile based for non-touch screen PC's.

People that like it like it, fine, but your reactions are always "well, if you don't like it, you must be using it wrong, or just don't know all of the options". I have been doing this a long time and am an early adopter of every new OS and I love new things... Win8's new UI just sucks, badly for non touch devices and you aren't going to convince me otherwise.


RE: About Time
By NellyFromMA on 11/26/2013 11:08:56 AM , Rating: 2
You mean, you personally think it sucks. That's cool, just accept others think its just fine, especially 8.1


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 11:39:49 AM , Rating: 2
Absolutely. You like it, you use it and be happy. You cant deny the other 1/2 that hates it. It's kind of all over the web since Win8 came out.


RE: About Time
By artemicion on 11/26/2013 1:00:43 PM , Rating: 2
Comic book guy fanboys on the Internet griping about their imagined slights and inconsequential grievances? You don't say.


RE: About Time
By Monkey's Uncle on 11/26/13, Rating: 0
RE: About Time
By postpwnit on 11/26/2013 3:52:02 PM , Rating: 3
^You have no idea what you're talking about.

"Microsoft profit jumps 17% Microsoft reported quarterly sales and profits Thursday that rose from a year ago and easily trounced Wall Street's forecasts." - CNN Money October 25,2013.


RE: About Time
By YearOfTheDingo on 11/26/2013 9:23:42 PM , Rating: 2
Windows OEM revenue is down 7%. Windows 8 Pro (the license that let you downgrade to 7) is seeing growth, on the other hand. Market share for Windows 7 is actually growing faster than for Windows 8.

Microsoft is doing well in their non-OS lines of business. SQLServer is growing by double-digit. Azure revenue jumped over 100%. It probably helps that those divisions aren't run by Julie Larson-Green.


RE: About Time
By jimbo2779 on 11/26/2013 4:29:24 PM , Rating: 2
MS are seeing record profits so you are wrong.

You are replying in a thread where retrospooty made some crazy comment about opening the start screen somehow losing you focus on all screens which is ridiculous and has never been the case at any point in win8 or 8.1.

Learn you some facts. MS are doing just fine.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 9:38:12 PM , Rating: 2
Focus and focus as to a window are 2 different things. And MS is still making money from the W7 downgrades that the entire business world relies on. Stop making excuses. You know removing the choice was a bad decision, even if you like it, the other 1/2 doesn't and that is all there is too it. There is no amount of debating that will make people like it. It doesn't work well for non touch devises.


RE: About Time
By jimbo2779 on 11/27/2013 11:27:26 AM , Rating: 2
I was replying to Monkeys Uncle about the profits.

PC sales were already in decline before win8 was released it is not as a result of it.

I made no comment about the UI.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/27/2013 12:56:03 PM , Rating: 2
"You are replying in a thread where retrospooty made some crazy comment about opening the start screen somehow losing you focus on all screens"

That is the direct post I replied to.


RE: About Time
By jimbojimbo on 11/26/2013 1:17:29 PM , Rating: 2
How does it make you less efficient? I've been using it at work for ever and 99.9% just sit on the desktop and I'm still 100% efficient. Nothing's slowed me down at all. Why are you going to the tiles all the time anyway and if so what's so hard about typing the first few letters of what you want?
I don't think you've used it more than 10min and you just love to complain.
If you're really using it for work you pretty much have to work in the desktop in which case there is no difference between Win8 and Win7.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 4:08:15 PM , Rating: 2
Whatever you want to think. Its not just me. I hate it.


RE: About Time
By Labotomizer on 11/26/2013 4:13:26 PM , Rating: 2
In no way was I stating your opinion was invalid. I was saying your statement of "fact", that you lose focus on all 3 monitors, was incorrect. Not sure what's so confusing about that.


RE: About Time
By troysavary on 11/27/2013 3:07:45 AM , Rating: 3
I have yet to here a coherent argument as to why tiles are harder to click on with a mouse than icons are. All I here is "Touch UI, blah, blah". Is 8 perfect? No, but the deficiencies are not caused by the Start screen. My only gripe with 8 is that many of the new apps suck when compared to their prvious desktop counterparts. Often there is less functionality. Case in point, the Zune app vs the new music app. The Zune app gave me media controls in the task bar when minimized, the new music app does not. 8.1 improved the new UI apps somewhat, but I still prefer the desktop versions in most cases. But as far as actual usability of the interface, I actually find many things improved in 8.1, especially for accessing things like device manager and task manager. A simple right click on the start button brings up a list of admin tools that used to take several clicks to get to.
I get that some people don't like the start screen, but most of the attacks levelled against it do nothing to advance the case against it. I here stuff like "Crayola", "playschool", "metrosexual" ans it makes me think people are hating for the sake of hating. It does even less for credibility when people state that MS is losing money or that Win 8 is cratering PC sales, when MS profits are up, OEMs that don't suck are increasing sales.
I am not accusing you, retro, of doing all this, BTW, this was a general rant against all the misinformation that appears in Win 8 threads. The only comment specifically directed at you in the touch vs mouse UI part. I fail to see how tiles are harder to click on with a mouse than they are to touch.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/27/2013 6:58:16 AM , Rating: 1
"I have yet to here a coherent argument as to why tiles are harder to click on with a mouse than icons are. "

Who ever said that? They are too large, take up too much space and the whole "full screen" start menu is the issue. Forcing full screen in a product once aptly named "Windows" is a problem. The other thing is you cant create and embed links and shortcuts in folders like the old menu. That is why I cant stand it anyhow.


RE: About Time
By dozer13 on 11/27/2013 6:34:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But as far as actual usability of the interface, I actually find many things improved in 8.1, especially for accessing things like device manager and task manager. A simple right click on the start button brings up a list of admin tools that used to take several clicks to get to.

Huh? win 7 right click taskbar,start task manager, done. lol


RE: About Time
By dozer13 on 11/27/2013 6:34:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But as far as actual usability of the interface, I actually find many things improved in 8.1, especially for accessing things like device manager and task manager. A simple right click on the start button brings up a list of admin tools that used to take several clicks to get to.

Huh? win 7 right click taskbar,start task manager, done. lol


RE: About Time
By eek2121 on 11/26/13, Rating: -1
RE: About Time
By troysavary on 11/27/13, Rating: 0
RE: About Time
By Chaser on 11/27/2013 2:49:07 PM , Rating: 2
Most the complaints about Windows 8.1 are knee jerk, 10 minute summary denials, mostly contrived or hearsay. Windows 8.1, with a very short amount of unbiased time investment is more than Windows 7 has ever been.

Most the people that complain about it are shackled to their "start menu" that carefully guides them step by step to their programs like a very old man with thick glasses trying to drive.


RE: About Time
By kleinma on 11/26/2013 10:47:43 AM , Rating: 2
Have you tried 8.1? There were various improvments to start screen and multimonitor support. It was a little broken in RTM, but now it doesn't do things like steal focus from metro when you click something ont he desktop. There is also a setting to have the start screen come up on whatever screen you are currently focused in, not just the main screen.

I also have to say that while I use the metro interface extensively on my surface, I don't use it on my desktop (except for the netflix app). Since going to 8.1 and setting my system to boot to the desktop, I pretty much never ever need to go into the start menu. winkey+s to search doesn't take you out of the desktop anymore, so this whole "stop forcing metro on me" thing for desktops is not really a valid argument anymore. It is there, you can't make it "go away" but you don't have to use it or really ever see it if you don't want to. And if it is that god aweful for you, then install start 8 and be done with it.

On the touch side of things apps like metro IE are awesome and hands down the best browser for touch I have used across iOS, android, windows...


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 11:04:34 AM , Rating: 4
Yes, and it still sucks. Better, but not there yet, and kind of insulting. The issue people have is with the start screen and the new UI, not the "start button" itself. The answer from MS was to put back the "start button" which just brings you to the crappy new start screen. A slap in the face if you ask me.


RE: About Time
By kleinma on 11/26/2013 11:28:36 AM , Rating: 5
What did you really use the start menu for in Windows 7? You don't pin the common programs you use? The most I use the start menu for in Windows 7 is to search for something (which is replaced by winkey+s in win8) or to do some admin type task (which are actually all easier to get to by right clicking the start button in windows 8).

So what productivity did the start menu really bring you that is missing now? What part of clicking start and sifting through the mess that was the old start menu really made you more productive and efficient?


RE: About Time
By arazok on 11/26/2013 11:36:53 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly.

How I used Windows 7: Click Win Key, type program I want

How I use Windows 8.1: Click Win Key, type program I want

Yeah, terrible change.


RE: About Time
By Reclaimer77 on 11/26/2013 2:06:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
How I use Windows 8.1: Click Win Key, type program I want


Search is still broken in Windows 8.1, so I don't know how you can honestly make this claim.

In Windows 7 I can globally search my entire computer from the start menu. Every file, every program, every administrator tool, every menu and sub-menu.

You CANNOT do that in Windows 8.1, it doesn't work.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/168910-window...

Skip down to "Search Still Fractured", if you're still thick enough to try and argue the point.


RE: About Time
By arazok on 11/26/2013 2:09:44 PM , Rating: 2
Personally, I only use the winkey when searching for programs so I was unaware of this issue. If that’s something you are accustom to, then I can see it being frustrating. I stand corrected.


RE: About Time
By Reclaimer77 on 11/26/2013 2:16:41 PM , Rating: 2
Hey no problem.

But I think it's a huge difference. For instance I want to delete a program, now who wants to navigate to "Add Remove Programs", or make a shortcut for that? Nobody.

Windows Key, type "remove", and press enter. Boom, I'm there. Can't do that in Windows 8.1!


RE: About Time
By puplan on 11/26/2013 3:27:33 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Windows Key, type "remove", and press enter


Boom, you just removed icons from notification area :-(


RE: About Time
By troysavary on 11/27/2013 3:34:28 AM , Rating: 2
Win 8.1, right click on start button, add/remove programs is in the menu that pops up. Boom, I'm there.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 11:38:38 AM , Rating: 3
hundreds of embedded shortcuts sorted by folder. Right there, Win8 lost. I do alot of different thigns at work and the start screen cant organize things by group/folder nor can it fit everything on one screen.

That and the whole full screen thing loses focus on your windows. It defeats the once aptly named product called "Windows" now, it should be called "Screen".


RE: About Time
By jimbojimbo on 11/26/2013 1:24:10 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, you're one of those mouse only people. I hate seeing people type something in a box, move their hand to the mouse, then click OK when they could have just hit Enter. Are you one of these people?
Win8 is much faster for me since typing the first few letters of what you want to launch is faster than clicking through a folder structure.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 1:45:02 PM , Rating: 1
Uh... No, I am not. I am someone that is an extremely heavy multitasker that is slowed down by Win8 and the awful unintuitive UI. I do more at any given time than several giant tile can give me.


RE: About Time
By Reclaimer77 on 11/26/2013 1:37:16 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
What did you really use the start menu for in Windows 7?


It's the fastest way to get to your recently opened/most used programs. It's hierarchical. It's a global search, unlike Windows 8 fragmented one.

But again, you guys keep missing the point. It's not that we're Start Menu addicts. It's that the new Start Menu launches you into the Metro UI that is the problem! THAT is the line in the sand.

And yes, there are programs that fix that behavior. But guess what? That's irrelevant. We're debating the OS as-is.

quote:
What part of clicking start and sifting through the mess


Mess?

I have to wonder if you even ever USED the Start Menu of Windows 7. You could not GET more hierarchical and organized. From the Start Menu, you can do almost everything you would ever need to do. It's also highly customizable.

Metro wouldn't be so bad if there was something to DO when there. Let's be honest, the Windows 8 "app store" for the PC concept has failed. There's still barely any apps, and the huge majority of them are really really terrible.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/5-reasons-w...

You guys seriously need to learn how to objectively evaluate software and UI's. Just because you like something, doesn't make it good.


RE: About Time
By xerosleep on 11/26/2013 12:52:49 PM , Rating: 2
um no, you right click the start button and it gives you all the options like before. If you left click that takes you to the metro start screen.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 6:50:17 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, no it doesn't. The old start menu is gone. I don't think you are talking about the same thing.

Doesn't matter, don't like it, not gonna use it, not gonna buy it nor give MS a red sent until they fix it and neither is the entire enterprise sector that will stick with Windows 7 for years and years to come unless they FIX THE UI that they broke on purpose with Win 8. There is a reason every single OEM sells their business class systems with Win7 downgrade licenses.

You guys are all acting like its just a few out-liers that don't like it. There are millions and millions of people that cant stand it. Newb's, non techs, and techs alike. It is the single most hated UI in the history of Windows. It's not just a few people that "don't get it". It's horrible. It can be said that it is a matter of opinion, but it is an opinion that millions upon millions of Windows users share.


RE: About Time
By troysavary on 11/27/2013 3:25:21 AM , Rating: 2
You speak for the ENTIRE enterprise sector? Wow, I didn't know they got together and elected a spokesperson. Even if the interface had stayed exactly the same, the enterprise sector would not have been jumping on 8 any time soon. Most of them are still not on 7. Hell, I have been to places still on Windows 2000. Enterprise is notoriously slow to migrate. Perhaps the ending of support for XP will speed up the moving away from XP, but until then, XP is far more prevalent in enterprise than Vista, 7 and 8 put together, from my experience. Whether they migrate to 7 or 8, MS still makes money, so why does it matter to them. Anyone who had already migrated to 7 is of course going to stay with 7 for years to come. That is the nature of the beast.
I can make up numbers too. Millions and millions like the new interface. It is so loved, that competitors are copying elements from is. The PS4 menu looks suspiciously like metro. See how easy that is? Arguing is fun when you can just throw out random figures.

What it comes down to is people don't care that a few diehard haters come into every single article about Windows 8 and spew that same tired lines. Stick with 7, no one cares. You'll be there a long time. MS is committed to this unified Windows vision and a few people telling MS they will never use it will not change that.
I like 7, it was great. I like 8 too. Upgrading to 8 made my laptop like a new machine. It runs way faster than it ever did under 7. The multi-touch gesture made the trackpad, something I never used before, actually useful.


RE: About Time
By troysavary on 11/27/2013 2:42:52 AM , Rating: 2
Wow, the I hate MS crowd is out in full force with their fake voting accounts. I get negative 1 for posting facts and retro gets 5 for being wrong. The Start screen does NOT appear on all 3 monitors. Besides, I don't get this "lose focus" argument. If you are going to either the start screen or the start menu, chances are, you are launching a new program, hence "losing focus" on what you were previously doing anyway. Or are you saying you randomly open the start menu for no reason while working on something, and not bother looking at it?


RE: About Time
By Monkey's Uncle on 11/26/2013 9:48:24 AM , Rating: 3
I don't care about switching between UIs. I just care that I am not given a choice on which I want to use and what not to install when I install the dang OS. I get that gawd-awful start screen and all its moronic monolithic apps shoved down my throat whether i want them or not. No opt-out. Like it or lump it. And if I want to do a simple calculation in my desktop, clicking on the calculator turns my large 27" monitor into one huge calculator and nothing more. The stupidity of Microsoft's current crop of UI designers just floors me. Triple monitors? Give me a break!

Frankly if it wasn't that I had developer access to MSDN I wouldn't be running Windows 8.x even in a VM.

Side Note: I don't see that Windows Server 2012 has that start screen/apps garbage. If they are so great, why not?


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 11:06:59 AM , Rating: 1
" I get that gawd-awful start screen and all its moronic monolithic apps shoved down my throat whether i want them or not. "

I hear ya. I cant stand it, I hate it so badly that I dont even want to use Win8 on a touch screen device which it is designed for. I have no desire to buy any Windows phone, tablet or otherwise because of the UI. I just dont like it... Which is kind of upsetting to me, because I like MS and have always liked their products.


RE: About Time
By kleinma on 11/26/2013 11:32:03 AM , Rating: 2
Windows Server 2012 does have the metro UI, and it is pretty nice actually, since you can pin all the admin server stuff that is related to that servers particular tasks, and makes getting to things much easier than any previous version of server ever...

You also lose all credibility in your argument if you are just going to say that " all its moronic monolithic apps shoved down my throat whether i want them or not." which is total garbage. What metro app are you forced to use? There is not a single element of windows 8.1 that REQUIRES you to use the start screen except launching a metro based app.


RE: About Time
By Zaranthos on 11/26/2013 1:24:00 PM , Rating: 2
I just don't get it. The desktop and the quick launch bar work great. So why do I need Fisher Price buttons again? I get so sick of people defending the Metro UI for desktop PC's. We use a keyboard and mouse. Hell I don't use the keyboard unless I need to type. I know keyboard shortcuts but I prefer the mouse. Cup of coffee in one hand, mouse in the other.

The start menu is fantastic at what does in Windows 7 and earlier. Who cares if you rarely use it, it's out of the way, contains all your programs nicely organized, all your system settings shortcuts, etc. The Metro UI? WTF is that good for that the desktop and quick launch bar didn't do better? You like it? Good for you, I can't stand Windows 8 or 8.1. It's not just because it doesn't work as well anymore, it's gotten to the point where it just irritates the hell out of me when I have to use it for work. Almost as irritating as the arrogant disregard for the majority of people who don't like it and the mockery of fixes 8.1 put in. Oh look the start menu is back. Not really, but at least we can start to the desktop...


RE: About Time
By jimbojimbo on 11/26/2013 1:31:13 PM , Rating: 2
It seems a lot of complaints are wrong complaints like the Server 2012 thing. As for the calculator, do people still use the calculator?? Holy cow! Is it 2007? I just launch PowerShell for all my math needs and haven't touched calculator since.


RE: About Time
By Monkey's Uncle on 11/26/2013 3:28:44 PM , Rating: 3
Welcome to the real world. People use the calculator built into Windows just as Microsoft trained them to for the last 20 years.

Oh, and windows 7 has powershell too. Yet another Microsoft proprietary piece of crapware.

But tell us this: Where is the real world value in going to Windows 8 or 8.1? The metro infrastructure? That is what drives me away from Win 8+. I sure as hell won't pay Microsoft for it so no value there.

So what else? Why would I spend $200 on Windows 8.1 Pro? Does it have Media Center? My Windows 7 Ultimate does - right out of the box.

What exactly does Windows 8+ do better than Windows 7 that would make upgrading to it a worthwhile thing to do?


RE: About Time
By SAN-Man on 11/26/2013 12:50:16 PM , Rating: 2
News flash. Most people don't WANT the task bar on the second monitor. I know I don't.


RE: About Time
By arazok on 11/26/2013 2:13:38 PM , Rating: 2
Thats why it's optional...


RE: About Time
By NellyFromMA on 11/26/2013 11:07:06 AM , Rating: 2
Multi-monitor support works practically the same in Win 8 vs 7 (I use triple at home). It actually works kind of better in some scenarios with the enhanced DPI functionality. Were your issues multi-monitor specific or more "Modern UI" issues? Just curious.


RE: About Time
By RedDotRabbit on 11/26/2013 2:10:56 PM , Rating: 2
This is hilarious. Windows 8.1 on multi-monitor is great because you can snap metro apps at any width anywhere that you like and still use most of the rest of that desktop for 'classic desktop' applications. Eg:

http://imgur.com/36zKNEH


RE: About Time
By synapse46 on 11/27/2013 1:01:25 PM , Rating: 2
That's the problem right there, Microsoft should have a Windows for desktops!


RE: About Time
By damianrobertjones on 11/26/2013 4:48:44 AM , Rating: 4
That's YOUR opinion!

To me desktop shortcuts or square tiles = THE SAME THING


RE: About Time
By piroroadkill on 11/26/2013 6:07:36 AM , Rating: 3
Yeah, exactly. Desktop shortcuts are a bloody awful way of launching things.

It has been many, many years since I had desktop shortcuts visible.

Context switching out to your desktop is a total waste of time.


RE: About Time
By ClownPuncher on 11/26/2013 12:22:14 PM , Rating: 2
People put stuff on their desktop still? Sounds like something old people would so.


RE: About Time
By Jeffk464 on 11/26/2013 5:38:56 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I do, stuff I use all the time like the recycle bin and my google drive folder.


RE: About Time
By ClownPuncher on 11/27/2013 12:26:32 PM , Rating: 2
Recycle bin, eh? I shift-delete everything and removed my recycle bin years ago.


RE: About Time
By inighthawki on 11/27/2013 3:33:37 PM , Rating: 2
I do as well, but that doesn't mean that it's not useful for some.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 7:44:40 AM , Rating: 3
That is alot of peoples opinion. Surely you must have heard that many many people with non-touchscreen PC's despise the new UI no? I believe I have seen a FEW people complain about it online. LOL.

Nothing wrong with unifying the OS's as long as there are different interfaces for the different devices that can be chosen. Desktop or non-touch laptop, leave the option to choose the non touch interface. Phone, tablet or touchscreen laptop, choose you have that option too. Problem solved.


RE: About Time
By FITCamaro on 11/26/2013 8:36:36 AM , Rating: 3
I agree. Work PCs don't have touch screens. I do think the touch screen UI is great....when you have a touch screen. For the business/power user, its a total waste and a worse way of doing things. Windows 8 makes it a lot harder to have multiple windows up at one time.


RE: About Time
By troysavary on 11/27/2013 3:44:51 AM , Rating: 2
How is it harder? The desktop still works. Windowing still works. In fact, I find it works better with the cleaner lines and losing that awful transparent chrome around all the windows.


RE: About Time
By domboy on 11/26/2013 9:14:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Nothing wrong with unifying the OS's as long as there are different interfaces for the different devices that can be chosen. Desktop or non-touch laptop, leave the option to choose the non touch interface. Phone, tablet or touchscreen laptop, choose you have that option too. Problem solved.


Exactly. I like the idea of an OS that has multiple UI that can be switched between. With a mobile device that can be docked, you probably wouldn't want to use the UI designed for a 4" screen on a 20" screen. Also, different input methods may dictate different UI design elements.

Even on my Surface RT, there are many times I prefer the desktop to modern UI... I'd be highly annoyed if I was stuck with just modern UI.



RE: About Time
By Reclaimer77 on 11/26/2013 8:42:16 AM , Rating: 1
Not just my opinion. Metro/Modern has been analyzed objectively by software and computer environment designers. It really is a bad UI design for any application. Not just the PC.


RE: About Time
By Monkey's Uncle on 11/26/2013 9:32:24 AM , Rating: 2
This screenshot from my 1920 x 1024 27" monitor pretty much typifies everything that is wrong with Microsoft's current "one view fits all" approach to Windows:

http://gallery.cyberguyz.org/data/502/here_is_what...

This is what happens if I want to pop up the windows calculator to fill in a calculated value into a field on one of my windowed programs.

Does that look particularly useful or streamlined to you?

Note: I do not run Windows 8.x on my main system. This image is from a VM hosted on my Windows 7 machine (thank you MSDN).


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 12:05:32 PM , Rating: 2
MY! What a BIG CALENDAR you have!

Thank god it takes up your whol damn screen. You might be distracted by your other "windows". LOL

God damn, I hate Metro. WTF were they thinking?


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 12:06:45 PM , Rating: 2
Calulator... I dont know if that was bad brain or bad spell checker.


RE: About Time
By jimbo2779 on 11/26/2013 8:55:57 PM , Rating: 2
As was posted the last time this ridiculous image was posted that is the metro version. If you prefer the old desktop calc simply use that, it is the default calc after all.

You know you are making a misleading post but hey lets not let the facts get in the way of a good anti-MS post.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 9:07:55 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously bro, there is NO excuse for forcing a touchscreen UI on all Windows users, most of which DONT HAVE TOUCHSCREENS. You cannot reason your way out of that. You like it? You buy it, leave us out of it. We hate it and won't use it. I know, its fine with classic shell or start 8 (or many others) but I refuse to reward MS bad choices by purchasing anything with it on there. When you piss off half your customer base you have done something very wrong. I will gladly buy the next Windows released that has a KB/mouse friendly UI that DOESNT force anything to be full screen.


RE: About Time
By troysavary on 11/27/2013 3:51:15 AM , Rating: 2
Seriusly bro, nothing was forced on anyone. The desktop is still there. The old non-fullscreen apps are still there. Even if you use metro exclusively, they don't have to be full screen. You can snap 4 apps at once. Very few people actively use more than 4 at a time, and for those, the desktop works just as well as before.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/27/2013 7:03:53 AM , Rating: 2
"nothing was forced on anyone.The desktop is still there. The old non-fullscreen apps are still there. "

Yup, and if you use a 3rd party app the old start menu is there too. Also, Win7 works ;)

"Very few people actively use more than 4 at a time, and for those, the desktop works just as well as before."

And then there is the whole enterprise half of the equation that does. And the desktop works just as well as before AFTER you put back the start menu via a 3rd party app.

Like I said, I dont want to reward MS for that. You can if you like it. I dont, and the whole enterprise word isnt buying in. The UI sucks to 1/2 of us and the choice is gone... So, we have to create our own choice by choosing Win7.... Eat it. :p


RE: About Time
By jimbo2779 on 11/27/2013 11:37:03 AM , Rating: 3
I posted that the post about calc was deliberately misleading and not based on what the majority of users would experience without going out of their way to do so. That is all


RE: About Time
By jimbojimbo on 11/26/2013 1:34:05 PM , Rating: 2
Use Powershell unless you're 6 years old.


RE: About Time
By jimbojimbo on 11/26/2013 1:35:46 PM , Rating: 2
Um... another easy one for you. Windows+R, type "calc"
tada! You see some people are all about efficiency and finding solutions and some people are all about just complaining. They love to complain.


RE: About Time
By Monkey's Uncle on 11/26/2013 2:57:31 PM , Rating: 2
Why would I type anything if I have an icon for a calculator?

Oh -- and my keyboard does not have a "windows" key.


RE: About Time
By Monkey's Uncle on 11/26/2013 7:23:41 PM , Rating: 2
And where is that documented? Hit F1 on the desktop, type in 'calc' or 'calculator' and what does windows help system find? Squat! Nada! Zilch! It sure as shit doesn't tell you to hit a Windows-R key (if your keyboard actually HAS a windows key - not all of them are 'windows' keyboards) and type in 'calc'.

Yes indeed - Windows 8.x is the ultimate in user friendliness, isn't it.

Besides. I have already posted proof why the windows 8.x UI designers smoked donkey turds.

Click on a PDF on the desktop and you get the same anti-efficiency behavior since the Windows built-in PDF Viewer takes over my entire 27" screen. Why? I don't need the entire screen to read a damn pdf. While you might want a tablet to behave that way it is a complete and utter waste of video real-estate for anything with a screen larger than 15 inches.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 8:02:42 PM , Rating: 2
LOL. The worst thing is the UI when remoting into a server 2012 server. Simply logging off used to be click the start button and move your mouse over an inch or two (depending on the size of your window) and click log off. Now? Try and position the mouse in the lower right corner, just in the right spot because its tiny and invisible, bring up the start screen, now move your mouse all the way from the lower right corner to the upper left and click your Harris, then click logout. What efficiency genius came up with that? Awful. Its better in 2012 r2, which is the server equivalent of 8.1, but still, not as easy as any previous server OS.

A great thread here of people wondering etc...

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/rob/archive/2012/06/19/win...


RE: About Time
By jimbo2779 on 11/26/2013 8:51:04 PM , Rating: 1
You're wrong again and using a post from last year to try and prove a point that is not current.

To power off/restart/log off simply right click on windows button and go to "Shut down or sign out", same number of clicks similar amount of mouse clicks as in previous windows releases.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 8:56:48 PM , Rating: 2
There is no Windows button in server 2012. Read the bottom of my post. Its better in 2012 r2. But its still more steps than ANY previous OS. Rediclous, and confusing as to why you keep defending bad software.


RE: About Time
By troysavary on 11/27/2013 3:57:57 AM , Rating: 2
Unless you are using a Mac, you will have a Windows key. Who else makes a keyboard with no Windows key?

So don't use the Windows built in PDF viewer. Nothing to stop you from setting your default PDF viewer to Acrobat or Foxit, or anything else you would like. Seriously, if you are going to pretend that you cannot install programs and set them to default, then apply the same reasoning to previous versions. Under your moronic way of operating, on Win 7, click on a PDF, and it doesn't open at all, since you obviously cannot install anything to open PDFs.


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/27/2013 7:06:15 AM , Rating: 2
Way to miss the point.


RE: About Time
By jimbo2779 on 11/27/2013 12:59:01 PM , Rating: 2
I totally see and agree with his post. You are complaining that windows comes with a built in PDF viewer, if you don't like it get one of the many free PDF viewers and allow it to be the default, it is that simple.


RE: About Time
By Reclaimer77 on 11/26/2013 1:43:33 PM , Rating: 3
Yes why use a graphical UI calculator when you can muddle through a command line utility made for programers...

Are you freaking serious?

How about you use Powershell, and those of us with a life will make calculations on an actual graphical calculator, okay?


RE: About Time
By Monkey's Uncle on 11/26/2013 7:34:45 PM , Rating: 1
Powershell -- another piece of Microsoft-proprietary crapware. *facepalm*


RE: About Time
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 9:08:52 PM , Rating: 2
LOL... better off googling it.


RE: About Time
By Da W on 11/26/13, Rating: 0
RE: About Time
By bitmover461 on 11/26/2013 9:46:24 AM , Rating: 2
The 'fix' to Win8 would have been so simple it's disturbing that Microsoft doesn't get it. All they needed to do was give the option to boot to the desktop, and a PROPER Start Menu with the boot-to-desktop option set. That's it. That's all they had to do and uptake of Windows 8 among desktop users would have been much higher. The fact they didn't do that shows a highly dysfunctional organization.


RE: About Time
By HoosierEngineer5 on 11/26/2013 3:14:09 PM , Rating: 3
Clearly they have a totally new and better plan:

"unifying all of Microsoft's consumer-facing operating systems into a single chameleon-esque operating system that can blend optimally into any hardware niche by tuning its metadata."

How can that possibly fail?


RE: About Time
By YearOfTheDingo on 11/25/2013 11:28:21 PM , Rating: 2
As they say, "jack of all trade, master of none." Imagine if Linus Torvalds were the dictator of Linux and he had embraced the same dumb philosophy. The OS would have gone nowhere.

If Microsoft continue down this path, many businesses will start giving serious considerations to migrating to Linux. Getting one's employees to focus on work is hard enough as it is. I for one wouldn't adopt an OS that has the potential to turn my workplace machines into full-blown entertainment centers.


RE: About Time
By damianrobertjones on 11/26/2013 4:49:37 AM , Rating: 2
So... You want them to have various operating systems then?

Damned if they do...


RE: About Time
By 91TTZ on 11/26/2013 9:00:51 AM , Rating: 2
They don't need various different architectures, just various user interfaces for the different types of devices they're used on.


RE: About Time
By Monkey's Uncle on 11/26/2013 9:36:53 AM , Rating: 2
Um, you realize Android is based on Linux, right?


RE: About Time
By Nightraptor on 11/26/2013 10:02:04 AM , Rating: 3
You really think that businesses are going to look at moving to linux? I guarantee you that a full 90% of white collar office workers wouldn't even have the first clue what to do if they sat down at a computer with one of the more popular linux distributions on them. Now I know that both Android and Mac are technically Linux based, however Android is for the most part tablet/phone only and Mac is cost prohibitive for many businesses (and it is doubtful that Chromebooks can meet the needs of businesses). Additionally having used both Mac and Android devices I'm not convinced their interface is any better than Windows 8.1. In fact quite frankly I find the standard Mac interface to be annoying and clunky at best.

The reality is that it took some time to customize Windows 8/8.1 to the way I like it, however after spending the 30 minutes or so to do this I am really pleased with the results. I have it set to boot to the desktop, I have most of my often used programs pinned to the taskbar, and my less often used programs on the start menu.


RE: About Time
By YearOfTheDingo on 11/26/2013 3:15:37 PM , Rating: 2
Ubuntu might be too different, but distros like Mageia or Zorin sport UI's that are fairly intuitive to Windows users.


RE: About Time
By inperfectdarkness on 11/26/2013 2:37:10 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed. Why this wasn't the deal from the start with windows 98 forward, is beyond me. How many ugly failures does it take to get MS to wake up? NT? W2k? Vista? Win8 pushed to a traditional desktop/laptop?

With how easy it is to use a shell desktop these days, wouldn't it make sense to design the same thing into Windows itself? One single OS, but with various "shells" for user interface, depending on the device or user preference. If Win8 had done that from the start, there wouldn't even be a question about upgrading or downgrading from/to Win7.

Let's hope Win9 gets it right. MS OS (good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good?)


RE: About Time
By marvdmartian on 11/26/2013 7:39:34 AM , Rating: 2
Not so sure it will work out for them. I'm betting this is more a desperate attempt to get people to switch to Windows OS smart phones, using a "Hey, if you like your desktop, laptop or tablet Windows OS, you can have it on your phone, too!" approach.

Let's face it....being in 3rd place in the mobile OS department doesn't sound that bad....until you realize that the only two behind you are Palm OS and Blackberry!!


RE: About Time
By Jeffk464 on 11/26/2013 5:30:12 PM , Rating: 2
Wait, if Xbox will run full windows why would anyone buy a desktop PC.


RE: About Time
By fteoath64 on 11/27/2013 6:47:56 AM , Rating: 2
"Work together" yes but converge into a monolithic monster ? NO!.

If MS just had two good OS, it would be great to improve the weak ones, rather than changing it radically. XB1 I OS looks really good, Win 8.1 x86 needs improvements, so does RT in a radical way. Those two are just sub-standard by today's OS. Wp is behind the competition and needs to catch up and innovate in a more media centric way. Step One in convergence is to emulate the UI of the other by morphing it intelligently.
But supporting multiple CPU architectures is going to cause a problem regardless. This is where MS may have issues going forward.


RE: About Time
By Argon18 on 11/27/2013 10:32:25 AM , Rating: 1
"About Time. Microsoft should have had this plan all along."

Funny, Linux has been doing exactly this since the 1990's. The same OS kernel that runs the world's largest supercomputers, also runs your Android phone. The same Linux source code tree compiles on x86, ARM, MIPS, POWER, SPARC, etc. A beautifully executed example of write once, compile & run anywhere.


RE: About Time
By Jeffk464 on 11/27/2013 11:26:40 AM , Rating: 2
I think this happened because of the open source model. Companies/institutions just adapted it to their own needs.


ummm
By Flunk on 11/25/2013 9:02:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The only incompatibility between the two platforms is that Windows 8.1 PCs can't play Xbox One games, given the specialized gaming graphics hardware required for optimal performance.


Most gaming machines are already more powerful than the Xbox One. In 2 years even the slowest ultrabook will be at least as capable.

It would be nice to see Xbox One games on PC but that would really subvert the traditional model. I think they'd need a lot of competition from nontraditional sources like tablets and steam os before they do something like that.




RE: ummm
By Owik2008 on 11/26/2013 5:47:47 AM , Rating: 2
I don't see this as subverting the market in any way. I've already read comments on how the console hardware itself is sold at next to no profit (maybe I'm wrong?). All this would do is open up a wider base of people to purchase xbox games.

They could move the live service over onto the PC side as well, so really you have the same experience. Especially if the OS is the same - just load up the xbox app/boot into "game mode". :P

You can still keep the steam system and indy game market, it is not an effort to kill off the other market places - although they'd probably try.

I understand the hardware capabilities and differences - or maybe I don't which is why this post may be a waste of time. Still though, I only bought an xbox to play multiplayer games with my friend overseas. Otherwise I'd have never bothered and would have been quite happy to buy the xbox games and run them in windows.


One API
By mcnabney on 11/25/2013 10:03:12 PM , Rating: 2
Gee, one API. Such a high level abstraction should keep Intel, Nvidia, and AMD in business for years developing more and more powerful hardware to combat the massive inefficiency that MS creates.




RE: One API
By troysavary on 11/25/2013 11:18:30 PM , Rating: 2
The type of apps that will be able to run on phones will not challenge desktops PCs no matter how inefficiently coded. This will be good for simple apps, allowing developers to write once and run it everywhere. People who need more power will simply use the current desktop tools to write desktop only programs, like they always have.


Different tools have different purposes
By DiscoWade on 11/26/2013 7:37:41 AM , Rating: 2
You don't try to put a nail in with a screwdriver. That is not the purpose of the tool. A tablet is a different tool than a desktop/laptop. Putting a tablet UI on a desktop/laptop device is both stupid and frustrating. Apple knows this, why doesn't Microsoft?




By Nephelai on 11/26/2013 7:48:00 AM , Rating: 2
Couldn't agree more. Small/mobile devices are about convenience and you pay the price in efficiency. I cant for the life of me understand why they think we'd want to touch the screen of our desktops when we can do it with a mouse many times faster. Its just as stupid as speak recognition on a desktop. Speaking a command when I can mouse it is more work.


Far too little, and FAR too late...
By jnemesh on 11/26/13, Rating: 0
By retrospooty on 11/26/2013 12:30:39 PM , Rating: 4
" Sorry MS, your time is DONE."

Riiiight... In the consumer market, this is true, but enterprise is still the bulk of MS's money and they are utterly unchallenged in that market.

Call us when they can make a single iProduct, Android, or anything else without the entire process running on MS PC's and Servers.


By danjw1 on 11/26/2013 8:31:25 AM , Rating: 3
Bloat, out of date code and APIs. Those are the underlying problems at Microsoft. They aren't willing to break old apps and as such, can't move forward. Apple does it, Linux does it, Microsoft isn't willing to.

The fact that the idiots on the board would even consider taking Elop back after what he did to Nokia, none the less consider him for CEO, just shows they have no idea what they are doing. Microsoft is pretty much doomed unless the get a CEO that hasn't ever worked at Microsoft. They need someone who doesn't drink the company coolaid.




By Schmide on 11/26/2013 1:33:01 AM , Rating: 2
If I load up AD block pro will the universe implode?




By Captain Awesome on 11/26/2013 8:49:24 AM , Rating: 2
That interface is great for everything except computers. On Xbox 360 it was awesome, having switched to PS4 I miss it soooo much. On my old Windows Phone it was great too, but the phone was crap and had bad ports of all the decent Android and iOS apps.




By 91TTZ on 11/26/2013 9:08:07 AM , Rating: 2
I think that Windows RT is the odd man out. It's an OS without a role. There are 2 distinct usage models right now: PCs and mobile devices with touch screens. Trying to blend the two just isn't working. It has resulted in an otherwise good operating system that is badly hindered by an awful UI.

Not only will there be usage problems when you try to force a touch OS on a non-touch device like a windows tablet or phone, but there is also the divide between x86 and ARM architectures. It doesn't make any sense to blend the two. In addition, the other big market for conventional Windows is servers. Server operating systems are based on their desktop operating systems.

When all things are considered the conditions are perfect for 2 unique, totally separate operating system architectures.




My time with Windows will end.
By SAN-Man on 11/26/2013 12:49:18 PM , Rating: 2
Linux Mint with Cinnamon is my future now. I've been using it for a while now.

Microsoft abandoning the desktop is a mistake.




Unification or bifarcation...?
By croc on 11/27/2013 12:25:52 AM , Rating: 2
The NT kernel CAN cover all three platforms, of this I am sure. It actually already is, isn't it...? But it is not the SAME kernel, is it... And who in their right minds would expect a single-kernel-fits-all strategy to ever be anything other than cumbersome, buggy, kludgy, slow. So, given that you already have to have different kernels, how about the next layer - the HAL? At present, the HAL is pretty much built on the fly. That's good. It is a portable, modular approach that has stood up well over many a year. And I am sure that it can be made portable enough to cover any and all devices at present. But should it? I mean, the way that most mobile devices load their OS is via a ROM device. This is not something that is easily created on the fly, is it. Rather, it is something that really has to be pre-packaged per device. So it makes no sense to me to talk about phone OS's in the same breath as desktop class OS's. Yes, you can make the GUI's look similar, but underneath it all well... And then there is the issue of trying to make the GUI's look similar... I don't WANT my desktop to look like a mobile device, it is not mobile, I do not interact with it like I would a mobile, so why should my desktop even try yo pretend that it is a mobile device? I like my keyboard, thankyouverymuch. I don't want to even THINK about trying to write a 5000 word article / report / blog rant on a touch screen. That would be an exercise in bald-making. So why would I want a GUI that even LOOKED like it was setup primarily for touch screen support? Conversely, if I had a tablet, would I want it weighed down with lots of desktop type software? I mean, my desktop thinks nothing of having an SSD drive and a few 2+GB HDD's as well. However, my tablet - well, let's say that for the forseeable future it will be a bit shy of real space, won't it? Something to do with size, battery life.... Then there's the even more deprived 'smart phone' platform that is really not all that smart and frequently not that good a phone... (OK, my rant about phones is over) But, this is where it is all happening, isn't it? But just how much less stuff can you cram onto even the best smart phone, compared to a tablet...

So, there are three rather distinct classes of devices out there. Admittedly, the two mobile classes are becoming a bit blurred, but make no mistake - for the next few years they WILL remain separate classes. Now then, tell me again why there should be any real convergence? Why should I want / need my desktop GUI to look like it was a mobile? Or why would I want my mobile device to look like my desktop...?




I guess I'm in the minority...
By Boze on 11/27/2013 11:54:54 AM , Rating: 2
I like Windows 8.1. I'm running the ASUS PQ321Q as my main display with two 27" ViewSonics to the left and right, and I actually am very impressed with the operating system.

That said, I have been using Windows 7 up until 4 days ago, so I never had to suffer through Windows 8's initial release. If Microsoft keeps refining this current setup of operating system and can unify it into a single coherent code base, I think we have a winner.




I hated Windows 8.1
By Chaser on 11/27/2013 2:59:16 PM , Rating: 2
but I had to buy a license recently and so I decided to give 8.1 another try as objectively as I could.

Now I will NEVER go back to Windows 7. Windows 8.1 is better in every way and if some of you simpletons would invest 15 minutes in it you might experience a miracle and figure that out. In the mean time have fun moving that mouse up and down the pyramid with your "customized" desktop LOL :)

p.s. Careful not to miss a bar you might get lost and have to re-install :)




In other news...
By xdrol on 12/3/2013 4:43:29 AM , Rating: 2
... Windows 7's market share is growing faster than Windows 8+8.1's.




MS are doing it wrong
By corduroygt on 12/3/2013 11:51:03 AM , Rating: 2
PC's, Tablets, Phones, TV devices (Xbox) don't need to have the same interface. They only need to have the same apps and seamlessly share data between all of them via the cloud. Forcing tablet UI to PC's was stupid.




Always behind
By Argon18 on 11/26/13, Rating: 0
"A lot of people pay zero for the cellphone ... That's what it's worth." -- Apple Chief Operating Officer Timothy Cook













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