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Killer Instinct  (Source: Microsoft)
Microsoft tries to stoke sales of its upcoming console

Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) is trying to rally support for its upcoming Xbox One console, which launches in late November in the U.S. and a dozen other markets.  Microsoft won some supporters back when it agreed to drop its SDKs which offered developers a built in digital rights management system to lock offline users out of games.

I. Microsoft Announces 20 Xbox One Launch Titles

But the console is still struggling a bit with image.  After jumping to an early sales lead, recent listings have indicated it has fallen behind Sony Corp.'s (TYO:6758) PlayStation 4.  Microsoft has responded aggressively, bumping its upcoming console's onboard GPU to make sure it's not viewed as the "less powerful" console of this holiday season.

Looking to further excite fans, Microsoft has released a tentative list of what titles will and won't be available at launch.  This list may shift somewhat, and more titles may be added or removed, but these games (20 total) are likely what will be available in November:
  • Assassin's Creed IV Black Flag (Ubisoft, Ubisoft Entertainment SA (EPA:UBI))
  • Battlefield 4 (DICE, Electronic Arts, Inc. (EA))
  • Call of Duty: Ghosts (Infinity Ward, Activision Blizzard, Inc. (ATVI))
  • Crimson Dragon (Grounding/Land Ho!, Microsoft Studios)
  • Dead Rising 3 (Capcom Comp. Ltd. (TYO:9697) Vancouver, Microsoft)
Dead Rising 3
Dead Rising 3 is among the launch exclusives for the Xbox One. [Image Source: Capcom]
  • FIFA 14 (EA Sports, Electronic Arts)
  • Fighter Within (AMA Ltd., Ubisoft)
  • Forza Motorsport 5 (Turn 10 Studios, Microsoft Studios)
  • Just Dance 2014 (Ubisoft Paris, Ubisoft)
  • Killer Instinct (Double Helix, Microsoft Studios)
  • LEGO Marvel Super Heroes (TT Games, Time Warner Inc.'s (TWX) Warner Bros. Interactive)
  • Lococycle (Twisted Pixel, Microsoft Studios)
  • Madden NFL 25 (EA Sports, Electronic Arts)
  • NBA 2K14 (Visual Concepts, 2K Sports, Take-Two Interactive SW Inc. (TTWO))
  • NBA LIVE 14 (EA Sports, Electronic Arts)
  • Need for Speed: Rivals (Ghost Games, Electronic Arts)
  • Peggle 2 (Popcap, Electronic Arts)
  • Powerstar Golf (Zoe Mode, Microsoft Studios)
  • Ryse: Son of Rome (Crytek, Microsoft Studios)
  • Skylanders: Swap Force (Vicarious Visions, Activision)
  • Watch Dogs (Ubisoft Montreal, Ubisoft)
  • Zoo Tycoon (Frontier Developments Ltd. (LON:FDEV), Microsoft Studios)
  • Zumba Fitness: World Party (Zoë Mode, Majesco Entertainment Comp. (COOL))
(Titles in bold are Xbox platform exclusives or exclusively first on Xbox; green denotes titles with exclusive or timed exclusive content available on Xbox.)

The following titles (30 total) are announced, but won't be available until sometime after the launch:
  • Below (Capybara Games, Microsoft Studios)
  • D4 (Access Games, Microsoft Studios)
  • Destiny (Bungie, Activision)
  • Disney Fantasia: Music Evolved (Harmonix, Disney Interactive)
  • Dragon Age: Inquisition (BioWare, Electronic Arts)
  • Dying Light (Techland, Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment)
  • EA SPORTS UFC (EA SPORTS, Electronic Arts)
  • Final Fantasy XV (Square Enix, Square Enix Holdings Comp., Ltd. (TYO:9684))
  • Halo Xbox One (343 Industries, Microsoft Studios)
  • Kinect Sports Rivals (Rare, Microsoft Studios)
  • Kingdom Hearts III (Square Enix 1st Production Department, Square Enix)
  • LEGO Marvel Super Heroes (TT Games, Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment)
  • Mad Max (Avalanche Studios, Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment)
  • Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain (Kojima Productions, Konami Corp. (TYO:9766))
  • Minecraft: Xbox One Edition (Mojang Studios, Microsoft Studios)
  • Mirror's Edge 2 (DICE, Electronic Arts)
  • Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare (PopCap Games, Electronic Arts)
  • Project Spark (Microsoft Studios)
  • Quantum Break (Remedy, Microsoft Studios)
  • Star Wars Battlefront (DICE, Electronic Arts)
  • Sunset Overdrive (Insomniac Games, Microsoft Studios)
  • The Crew (Ivory Towers, Ubisoft)
  • The Elder Scrolls Online (ZeniMax Online Studios, Bethesda Softworks)
  • The Evil Within (Tango Gameworks, Bethesda Softworks)
  • The LEGO Movie Videogame (TT Games, WB Interactive Ent.)
  • The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt (CD Projekt RED, WB Interactive Ent. – NA)
  • Thief (Eidos Montreal, Square Enix)                                
  • Titanfall (Respawn Entertainment, Electronic Arts)*
Titanfall
Titanfall -- sort of like a modern Mech Warrior -- won't land until a little bit after the November launch. [Image Source: EA]
Be aware that some of these games may launch in December, allowing game studios to still cash in on the lucrative holiday season.

From the titles list, one can clearly see Microsoft's deep investments in first party titles and how it hopes to use that to drive sales.  One can also see that the launch lineup is perhaps a bit weaker than expected, with the heavy hitters -- which include Halo and Titanfall -- missing.

II. Microsoft Announces ID@Xbox Fast-Track for Indie Devs

In addition to its launch lineup Microsoft -- who always loves its developers -- also announced its ID@XBOX (Indie Developer at Xbox) development platform for the console.  Microsoft already had announced that any console will be able to be used to develop games, channeling a the smartphone industry's high successful model of indie game development.

The good/bad news is that Microsoft will be singling out certain "worthy" indie developers/indie studios for special fast-tracked status.  The selected parties will receive two development kits, allowing them to start developing their games right now, three months before the console launch.

Microsoft illustrates the general ID@Xbox application process to score the early dev kits below:
ID@Xbox

In the FAQ, it also clarifies that games from indie developers must get ESRB ceritified, but that once they do they'll be sold alongside full professional studio games in the Xbox Live Market, with no second-class status given to the indie titles.  And Microsoft vows indie developers will have full SDK access, writing:

Developers in ID@Xbox have full access to the Live stack and support the exact same features as all other digital content on Xbox One – full support for multiplayer, Game DVR, Kinect, in-game transactions, updates, DLC, SmartGlass, etc. Bottom line: if a feature is supported on Xbox One, games in ID@Xbox can take advantage of it.
ID@Xbox

Clearly traditional studios do have the jump in that they're the only ones who have developer kits for months or more at this point (as no "retail kits" -- i.e. Xbox One retail consoles -- are available, currently).  Microsoft also makes it clear that its ID@Xbox fast-track program for indie developers is not a fully "open effort", but rather a meritocracy.  It comments:

[I]n the initial phase of ID@Xbox, we are looking for professional independent game developers who have a proven track record of shipping games on console, PC, mobile, or tablet. We want to ensure your success in your development effort on Xbox One. Developing and publishing a console game is not trivial!

Less experienced developers will have to wait to get their chance.  Thus is the way of the world (but at least they will get a chance at some point).

Sources: Microsoft, Xbox Launch Games, Microsoft, ID@Xbox [Press Release]



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meh
By Bubbacub on 8/20/2013 4:39:16 PM , Rating: 2
The exclusives line up seems pretty unappealing.
Add in the extra cost of the kinect, weak GPU and the way that the option of having mandatory online DRM has not been categorically removed ( as developers could make pointless cloud content mandatory as a sneaky way of adding in an online drm mechanism) and the xbone is looking very unappealing.




RE: meh
By xti on 8/20/2013 4:50:05 PM , Rating: 2
still rolling my eyes at everyone with the weak gpu statement.

ps3/xbox did fine with dated hardware (for the pc world at that)...do people expect to turn on their TV's and see a giant gameboy screen or something...?


RE: meh
By Wiggy Mcshades on 8/20/2013 5:50:17 PM , Rating: 4
I've heard that the gpu is so underpowered that they had to limit everyone to using only white wire frame meshes and black backgrounds for all games in order to maintain acceptable fps. The videos we have seen so far are just running on a pc. /s


RE: meh
By nikon133 on 8/20/2013 6:16:32 PM , Rating: 2
GPU statement.

On it's own, X1 GPU (and whole console in general) is leagues above X360, and like you said - considering how many great playing and looking games came out for X360 and PS3, it is given that games for X1 will be good.

But... most people don't look on X1 on it's own. They compare it to PS4 and they see that for $100 less you can get better hardware. At some point, difference in hardware will make multiplatform games look better or run smoother on PS4, maybe even both. And with potential to sell better, PS4 has good chance to be development platform for many games, with X1 receiving ported game. Optimised for slower hardware.

For people who look for complete home entertainment system, and are US citizens, this might be worthy compromise. But for rest of the world (where all the NBA and cable TV in general might not work or not be interesting), and also people who do look for gaming console primarily if not exclusively, PS4 does look like much better deal, IMHO.


RE: meh
By epobirs on 8/20/2013 9:36:59 PM , Rating: 4
John Carmack, somebody with more than a little expertise, indicated that he felt the two platforms would be nearly identical in real world results.

Until there is a substantial library of games showing a real qualitative difference, his is the most compelling opinion I've yet to hear.


RE: meh
By ihateu3 on 8/21/2013 12:13:31 AM , Rating: 2
Then there is no real reason to pay $100 more dollars for hardware that only "may" be equal to the higher end hardware.

I would not pay $100 more dollars for a product that had equal power, there is just no reason to do so!


RE: meh
By inighthawki on 8/21/2013 1:33:50 AM , Rating: 3
But it's only similar speced/performing hardware. The xbox one does ship with the kinect (which I'm sure microsoft dumped tons into R&D for) and I'd be willing to place money that the OS and developer tools will be far more feature complete than whatever the PS4 ships with.

Now whether you think $100 justifies the difference is a completely different perspective, but the above statement is simply fact.


RE: meh
By Mitch101 on 8/21/2013 3:00:13 PM , Rating: 2
Its a shame the HDMI input and Kinect abilities aren't getting more attention. Its not just games for XBONE.


RE: meh
By wallijonn on 8/21/2013 3:30:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I would not pay $100 more dollars for a product that had equal power, there is just no reason to do so!


You do it in the real world with cars, TVs, cell phones, dvd/bd players, etc. OSX vs Android, or PS OS vs XB OS? You may buy it for the better on-line experience of XBoxLive vs. PSN. Heck, you may buy it because you prefer the MS controller to the PS controller, or that games saved to HDD run faster on the XB than on the PS.

Me, I think MS was trying to make it STEAM like. Maybe the next gen. It was probably too soon since not everyone has high speed Internet access at the present time. Wireless: The PS is a lot easier to hook up and have working than the XB which may need MTU settings changed, or ports forwarded or opened on the router. If the argument is "pay less money and be easier to configure," then the PS wins hands down. imo.


RE: meh
By weskurtz0081 on 8/21/2013 6:48:05 PM , Rating: 2
I thought it was exclusives that people made purchasing decisions on, not hardware specs. Why do you think people buy the Wii, because there are some games on the Wii that you cannot play elsewhere.

I for one don't buy based on the multiplat's, I don't buy based on synthetic benchmarks or potential power, I buy the console I buy because I can play the games I want to play, very simple.


RE: meh
By Reclaimer77 on 8/21/2013 4:11:32 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
John Carmack, somebody with more than a little expertise, indicated that he felt the two platforms would be nearly identical in real world results.


He has virtually no experience in evaluating console hardware on a professional level. He codes game engines for the PC, that's about it. Mostly part time as his interests have gone from gaming to aerospace engineering.

But I digress, the man gave his opinion, sure. But he also backed it up with NOTHING substantive. Even he admitted he'd done no "real rigorous benchmarking". Using that as some concrete reasoning for a console purchase is the ultimate, ignorant, appeal to an authority figure.


RE: meh
By Reclaimer77 on 8/21/2013 4:38:56 PM , Rating: 3
From Anandtech, a REAL hardware source, not some guys opinion:

"Sony gave the PS4 50% more raw shader performance, plain and simple (768 SPs @ 800MHz vs. 1152 SPs & 800MHz). Unlike last generation, you don't need to be some sort of Jedi to extract the PS4's potential here. The Xbox One and PS4 architectures are quite similar, Sony just has more hardware under the hood. We’ll have to wait and see how this hardware delta gets exposed in games over time, but the gap is definitely there"

"Differences in the memory subsytems also gives us some insight into each approach to the next-gen consoles. Microsoft opted for embedded SRAM + DDR3, while Sony went for a very fast GDDR5 memory interface. Sony’s approach (especially when combined with a beefier GPU) is exactly what you’d build if you wanted to give game developers the fastest hardware."

Sony opted for an 18 Compute Unit GCN configuration, totaling 1152 shader processors/cores/ALUs. Microsoft went for a far smaller configuration: 768 (12 CUs).

"Microsoft can’t make up the difference in clock speed alone (AMD’s GCN seems to top out around 1GHz on 28nm), and based on current leaks it looks like both MS and Sony are running their GPUs at the same 800MHz clock. The result is a 33% reduction in compute power, from 1.84 TFLOPs in the PS4 to 1.23 TFLOPs in the Xbox One."


These are next generation consoles after all. Not mid-ranged models, not budget, but the top of the top.

Both have nearly the same architectures. Yet it's clear Microsoft wanted to put much less effort into the console, and charge much more despite that.

I cannot respect this. Sony is providing a far superior platform, for a significantly lower price. Fanbois can spin things anyway they want, but when it comes to my bottom line, it's clear Microsoft never intended to value it's customers with a worthy effort on the Xbox One.

Especially considering the outright disaster they had on their hands with the poorly built 35%+ failure rate of the Xbox 360. Here they are again, cutting corners with slower cheap hardware, yet have the gull to charge $100 more?


RE: meh
By Mitch101 on 8/21/2013 5:29:27 PM , Rating: 2
Ive seen the videos of the XBOX one titles can you tell us visually how they compare to the PS4 versions because they look the same to me.

Lets not leave out launch exclusives.

PS4
Killzone: Shadow Fall
#DRIVECLUB
Knack

XBOX ONE
Crimson Dragon (Grounding/Land Ho!, Microsoft Studios)
Dead Rising 3 (Capcom Vancouver, Microsoft)
Fighter Within (AMA Ltd., Ubisoft)
Forza Motorsport 5 (Turn 10 Studios, Microsoft Studios)
Killer Instinct (Double Helix, Microsoft Studios)
Lococycle (Twisted Pixel, Microsoft Studios)
Peggle 2 (Popcap, Electronic Arts)
Powerstar Golf (Zoe Mode, Microsoft Studios)
Ryse: Son of Rome (Crytek, Microsoft Studios)
Zoo Tycoon (Frontier Developments Ltd., Microsoft Studios)
Zumba Fitness: World Party (Zoë Mode, Majesco)


RE: meh
By Reclaimer77 on 8/21/2013 5:40:49 PM , Rating: 2
Yes and some games played on a Pentium 4 machine might "look" that same as a modern one...

Not interested in your, typical, pro-MS slant. The PS4 has objectively better hardware and engineering, and costs less.

quote:
Lets not leave out launch exclusives.


Nice list, were you just trying to be that disingenuous or what?


RE: meh
By Mitch101 on 8/22/2013 12:38:01 AM , Rating: 2
And we should listen to your anti-Microsoft slant on a thread about the X-Bone release titles? So your here just to slant Microsoft as usual.


RE: meh
By Reclaimer77 on 8/22/2013 9:01:27 AM , Rating: 2
Quoting facts from Anandtech isn't being "anti Microsoft", they're entirely unbiased.


RE: meh
By nikon133 on 8/21/2013 6:10:00 PM , Rating: 2
LOL, OK.

Confirmed X1 launch titles, 23 total:

Assassin’s Creed IV Black Flag
Battlefield 4
Call of Duty: Ghosts
Crimson Dragon
Dead Rising 3
FIFA 14
Fighter Within
Forza Motorsport 5
Just Dance 2014
Killer Instinct
LEGO Marvel Super Heroes
Lococycle
Madden NFL 25
NBA 2K14
NBA LIVE 14
Need for Speed: Rivals
Peggle 2
Powerstar Golf
Ryse: Son of Rome
Skylanders: Swap Force
Watch Dogs
Zoo Tycoon
Zumba Fitness: World Party

Confirmed PS4 launch titles, 33 total:

Assassin’s Creed Black Flag
Battlefield 4
Call of Duty: Ghosts
Driveclub
FIFA 14
Just Dance 2014
Killzone: Shadow Fall
Knack
LEGO Marvel Super Heroes
Madden NFL 25
NBA 2K14
NBA LIVE
Need for Speed: Rivals
Skylanders: Swap Force
Watch Dogs
Basement Crawl
Blacklight
Contrast
Counterspy
DC Universe
Doki-Doki Universe
Flower
Hohokum
Minecraft
N++
Pinball Arcade
Planetside 2
Pool
ResoGun
Super Motherload
Tiny Brains
War Thunder
Warframe

You will agree your list is a bit lacking.


RE: meh
By Reclaimer77 on 8/21/2013 6:25:12 PM , Rating: 2
According to this the PS4 launch list is up to 91 games. Updated yesterday:

http://www.gamesradar.com/ps4-games-every-single-o...

Granted these aren't all "exclusives", but who cares?


RE: meh
By inighthawki on 8/21/2013 6:32:21 PM , Rating: 2
Those are not all launch titles. In fact according to sony you will only see 33 titles by the end of the year.


RE: meh
By nikon133 on 8/21/2013 9:06:59 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. But it still is 33 titles in the first month of consol's life. Not bad at all.

What about X1? Will there be more than already announced 23 titles before the year's end? Mind you, 23 for brand new platform is still good.


RE: meh
By nikon133 on 8/21/2013 9:11:08 PM , Rating: 2
Shadow of the Beast... ah, sweet memories.

Amiga's side scroller games with that title were among the best games of that generation, at least in technical/visual categories. Multilayer parallax scrolling and all that.

I'm really curious to see how this new one will turn out to be.


RE: meh
By Mitch101 on 8/22/2013 12:36:54 AM , Rating: 2
I took out the dupes aka EXCLUSIVES you cant get on the other console. Seems to be Microsoft has more exclusives than Sony and the games that will be available on both will look identical and play identical.


RE: meh
By inighthawki on 8/21/2013 6:33:54 PM , Rating: 2
Except he has plenty of experience with consoles, and he knows plenty about the hardware. I'm sure he knows twice as much about them now as you ever will.


RE: meh
By retrospooty on 8/21/2013 11:07:09 PM , Rating: 2
Oh please, he said off the cuff that they would be roughly the same and specifically said he had not actually done any testing at all on either one. The hardware is not as fast. The memory is slower then dirt and the GPU has way less shaders. I repeat the hardware isn't as fast as the ps4. Get that through your head it's not as fast as the ps4. Do you understand? It's not as fast as the ps4 and it costs $100 more. Are we clear yet. What in the hell is with you to constantly defending the Xbox as if you are investors. Get a clue no ones buying the line you are selling because you are clearly making excuses.


RE: meh
By inighthawki on 8/22/2013 11:20:54 AM , Rating: 2
Actually reports are showing that with the ESRAM that will ship in retail devices the xbox one will have faster memory bandwidth than the PS4. And until we actually see things in action, you cant actually say anything about the gpu performance. GPUs are complicated beasts. You cannot compare perf by looking at raw numbers. Even with 50% more shaders, it likely won't even be remotely close to 50% faster. I hope you didn't think this, did you?


RE: meh
By retrospooty on 8/22/2013 2:51:31 PM , Rating: 2
I am fully aware of how GPU's work, and no, I dont expect it to be 50% faster. The tiny amount of ESRAM isnt enough to make up for memory bandwidth speed though. That is more of the issue than the shaders. It might not be that far behind. Even if its close, it is still $100 more. As ihateu said above... "there is no real reason to pay $100 more dollars for hardware that only "may" be equal to the higher end hardware. I would not pay $100 more dollars for a product that had equal power, there is just no reason to do so!"

Given the specs, at the same price, PS4 wins. At $100 less, its a no-brainer for most gamers, and a good part of the reason that the PS4 is murdering the X1 in every single "which one will you buy" poll out there. That is what has MS worried, and that is why they took back some of the ridiculous requirements and limitations and upped the clock speed of the GPU to run faster than they planned.


RE: meh
By nikon133 on 8/22/2013 9:10:34 PM , Rating: 2
Not really related, but I came across this while googling for graphics and other performance info on X1 and PS4.

I'd like to say I understood all (or at least most of it), but quite cool regardless :)

http://www.guerrilla-games.com/presentations/Valie...


RE: meh
By inighthawki on 8/23/2013 10:24:56 PM , Rating: 2
The $100 is clearly part of the cost of the kinect and the OS, which is bound to be leaps and bounds better than the software shipping with the PS4.


RE: meh
By Reclaimer77 on 8/22/2013 3:51:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I repeat the hardware isn't as fast as the ps4. Get that through your head it's not as fast as the ps4. Do you understand? It's not as fast as the ps4 and it costs $100 more. Are we clear yet.


Retro I don't understand, what are you saying again?

lol no seriously, I agree. I don't get what is wrong with these people. This is a tech blog, right?


RE: meh
By retrospooty on 8/22/2013 7:16:17 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah but one developer out of thousands of developers said differently in an off the cuff comment, adding that he didn't actually test anything at all. So obviously that's proof. Lol


RE: meh
By inighthawki on 8/23/2013 10:26:40 PM , Rating: 2
One developer out of thousands who is probably one of the top 5 game programmers in the world. I think he has enough credibility to make a guess that's probably more accurate than any half-@ssed attempt at a guess anyone else has made just from specs.


RE: meh
By retrospooty on 8/22/2013 7:19:30 PM , Rating: 2
"I don't get what is wrong with these people. This is a tech blog, right?"

Yeah, really. The good thing is the more time goes by, the easier it is to identify the people that are here for the tech and the people that are here on behalf of their favorite company. Clearly this guy has an Xbox fetish and is pushing for that cause.


RE: meh
By nikon133 on 8/21/2013 5:51:04 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I know what JC said.

But there are also things like this:

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/162612-ps4-vs-xb...

Of course this is just simulation, but I think it is reasonable one to give us an idea how things will turn out to be, within some margins.

I respect Carmack and his opinion, but I also respect experiment these guys have put together. End of the day, Carmack also thought a few years back that Intel would go for the consoles with Larrabee GPU — also that the Xbox One and PS4 might based on (quote) “super-mobile architectures”, with “16 ARM cores” and “a whole bunch of PowerVR graphics cores.

Experienced as he is, he is not always right. And even then, he doesn’t explicitly say that their performance is exactly the same, but rather that their “capabilities” are. I don't think that there will be games that can be done on PS4 but cannot be executed on X1, thus I agree with him; but I do expect that PS4 versions of games - some of them, especially down the path when developers reach consoles' limits - will be able to get some extra visuals candy or framerate boost (or avoid framerate drops below comfort threshold).


RE: meh
By someguy123 on 8/21/2013 6:34:05 PM , Rating: 2
Actually he was almost right. ps4 and xbox one use what are normally netbook processors (jaguar being an update to bobcat), and sony's system uses HSA, which is being adopted mainly by mobile platforms due to efficiency. The GPUs in both systems aren't stellar either considering the 360 had a 1900xt and the ps3 with a 7800 with less rops in addition to the cell's SPEs. They're not the behemoths we saw last cycle. Probably had some insider knowledge when it came to what both companies were looking at.


RE: meh
By nikon133 on 8/21/2013 9:23:17 PM , Rating: 2
Well, he missed on Intel's part... re AMD, don't you think it is a bit of stretching it, at best? Jaguar is still x86 tech, not ARM. Graphics are coming from desktop/laptop counterparts, are DX11 etc.

HSA, OK.

I'd like to see how's X360 RISC core standing against new Jaguar core. Hope there will be some deep analysis on that. Re Cell... I know that theoretical potential was amazing, but how much of it was really utilised in real-life scenarios - games?


RE: meh
By someguy123 on 8/21/2013 10:58:54 PM , Rating: 2
Well the intel part was way back considering you're referring to it as larrabee. Back then intel actually was pushing it for gaming and trying to get active raytracing working. These things change over time but the general concept of cost and power efficiency over raw performance is what we still ended up with compared to what we saw this gen.

Cell was actually a pretty poor general purpose processor (only had one PPE on there) but it could conceivably act as another gpu thanks to its SPEs fast SIMD performance. Problem was the backwards memory access on each SPE and confusion surrounding how to use the part in general since it came with its own gigantic manual. As a CPU the jaguar is probably much faster than the Cell, though I'm not quite sure how well it compares to the 360's xenon.


RE: meh
By Vonrikken on 8/23/2013 10:26:53 AM , Rating: 2
Carmack also said in that statement that he had not had a chance to benchmark either system. Context...


RE: meh
By half_duplex on 8/20/2013 6:36:30 PM , Rating: 2
I suggest you pick up an XBONE and a few games as soon as they become available. The spending will give you the release you crave, and you'll sleep better. Maybe even through in new tablet for good measure.


Still yawning
By half_duplex on 8/20/13, Rating: 0
RE: Still yawning
By inighthawki on 8/20/2013 4:40:35 PM , Rating: 4
So someone makes a mistake, then listens to their customers' feedback, and the new response is just to hold a grudge? Very mature way to decide what to buy.


RE: Still yawning
By xti on 8/20/2013 4:51:39 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft owes me a hooker and some cocaine for what they did earlier.

...might as well cash in on people's nonsense.


RE: Still yawning
By TSS on 8/20/2013 5:36:32 PM , Rating: 3
So a company gets to screw over it's customers repeadily, only to try so again monumentally breaking one's trust, yet you trust them again so easily after a few small tokens of appreciation?

No, that's mature.

Trust must be earned, it's not given. I'll concede one must have an oppertunity to earn back trust and with the recent changes i'll change from "never" buying the Xbox one to "maybe in a few years". But at this point, holding off to see wether Microsoft has really changed their game rather then trying to sweet talk their way into a installed user base (which is the only thing that matters to them), is very mature.


RE: Still yawning
By inighthawki on 8/20/2013 6:11:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So a company gets to screw over it's customers repeadily

What exactly is repeatedly? Last time I checked the only product Microsoft has shipped recently with any kind of negative customer response was Windows 8, which is blown a bit out of proportion all things considered. The xbox one hasn't even shipped and they've "repeatedly" listened to what their customers wanted and improved the product in said ways. How is that not earning trust?


RE: Still yawning
By FITCamaro on 8/20/2013 10:24:17 PM , Rating: 2
You're using to much logic.


RE: Still yawning
By Mitch101 on 8/21/2013 12:54:59 PM , Rating: 3
By his logic he must mean Sony which lost customer data repeatedly and denied doing so. Removed Backwards compatibility and Removed Linux Suppot. Just like Sony made up fake Movie reviewers and added a rootkit to their music CD's. Yet you should buy a PS4 the ethical choice.


RE: Still yawning
By BRB29 on 8/20/13, Rating: 0
RE: Still yawning
By andrewaggb on 8/21/2013 12:23:53 PM , Rating: 2
Realistically Microsoft had a vision for windows 8, rt, xbox one, windows phone etc. It's failed, they've realized it failed, and they've replaced the people in charge in both windows and xbox and are trying to fix this launch. I think they'll do fine.

Public companies exist to make money. They all do things that are in their own best interest.

Make a rational decision. Which console has the games/features you want, at a price you can afford (including subscriptions). Lots of people will end up with both anyways. Or wait for some actual reviews...


RE: Still yawning
By TSS on 8/21/2013 4:12:41 PM , Rating: 2
The Red ring of death and their reluctance to hone up to the real figures. Windows 8 tablet UI forced on PC customers against their will.

That's atleast twice, good enough to warrant a Repeatedly. I'm sure you could find more yourself using google.


RE: Still yawning
By inighthawki on 8/21/2013 6:17:27 PM , Rating: 2
Last I checked Microsoft handled the RRoD very professionally. They realized they made a mistake shipping it too early and the quality was not up to par, and they replaced them all at no cost, and even offered most people extended warranties beyond the original warranty lifetime. Windows 8 is also a single case of negative feedback which was firstly blown way out of proportion, and secondly partially being addressed in 8.1, and I'm sure will be even further refined as 8.2 rolls out.

I would count that as *at most* one example of "screwing people over" and that only counts if you hate Windows 8.


RE: Still yawning
By karlostomy on 8/20/2013 10:10:26 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
So a company gets to screw over it's customers repeadily (sic)


That seems nonsensical.
How have you been 'screwed over'?

The XBone has not been released yet, no one has bought it and no one has suffered any inconvenience at all.

The product is adapting to market feedback before it's release and this process does not affect you in the slightest.

I really don't understand angry geeks on the internet who think they are entitled to complain about revisions to products that are not available for purchase yet.


RE: Still yawning
By half_duplex on 8/20/2013 6:30:07 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Very mature way to decide what to buy.


I see the church of Humble Consumerism indoctrinated you well, your view of this situation is on par with that of a 9 year old who cries when he doesn't get McDonalds.

MS didn't make a mistake, they showed their hand.

I don't like their ideas (online, no used games, Kinect, spy camera), so I'm not buying their $500+ product. Nothing personal.


RE: Still yawning
By datdamonfoo on 8/20/2013 6:49:14 PM , Rating: 2
But since they've changed all those things, what is the issue now?


RE: Still yawning
By Aloonatic on 8/21/2013 2:05:20 AM , Rating: 2
I guess that a lot of people (myself included) have seen what MS wanted to do, and just because MS have back tracked, they don't believe that MS have thrown their original plans in the bin and have no intention ever of going back to them.

In a few years time, what's to say that they won't change their minds and go back to what they originally wanted to do?

The sad thing is (to try to show that I'm not biased) if MS were to go back to their original plans once people had bought into their platform, it wouldn't be the first time that a games console maker sold you one thing and then changed how you can use it further down the line. You just have to look at what Sony did with otherOS.


RE: Still yawning
By BRB29 on 8/21/2013 8:58:28 AM , Rating: 2
What MS wants to do is make money. They had a money making plan that people didn't like. The same people they rely on to buy their products. They changed their plan so people would still buy their products.

That's what I saw. I don't know why you think MS is out to screw you. They can care less whether they are screwing you over or not. All they want is your wallet. That's the bottom line.


RE: Still yawning
By Aloonatic on 8/21/2013 1:28:53 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know where you think I've said that I think that MS are out to "screw me", or anything so childish.

They wanted to do something that many people people didn't like, then back tracked and went to plan B. OK, fair enough. Does that mean that they will never want to go back to plan A though? You'd be a fool to think that they don't.

I'm not sure why you think that:

a) I am against anyone making money.
b) Simply wanting to make money means that anything that a corporation wants to do is OK ig that's their simple goal and why are you happy for a company to do anything in order to get into someone's wallet?

I have a money making plan. holding a gun to your head and making you give me some money. It's just a money making plan, so that's OK is it? Oh I back track on it after you refuse to give me anything and other people complain, then no harm no foul? Right?

Yes, I know that my plan is illegal and theirs weren't (it was just stupid) but hopefully you get the point that just because they never actually went through with it in the end doesn't mean that everyone should just forget about it?


RE: Still yawning
By nikon133 on 8/21/2013 6:22:49 PM , Rating: 2
That they have tossed their carefully plotted strategy very late in the product's development cycle, and that it can make big impact on whole platform. Do they have alternative strategy fully figured out, or are they just improvising now, and hoping for the best?

For example - will this influence deals they might have got with certain developers, who were happy with no game sharing/re-selling and were willing to bless X1 with extra effort - just to see the concept flushed down the drain?


RE: Still yawning
By inighthawki on 8/20/2013 6:50:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't like their ideas (online, no used games, Kinect, spy camera), so I'm not buying their $500+ product. Nothing personal.

It supports offline mode, there are used games, meh on Kinect, and there is no evidence other than a bunch of FUD that the Kinect will do anything more than process data. Just sayin'


RE: Still yawning
By Aloonatic on 8/21/2013 2:15:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
and there is no evidence other than a bunch of FUD that the Kinect will do anything more than process data,
So, were the reports on the patents that MS held for using the Kinect to gather personal information that had nothing to do with gaming made up? I genuinely would like to know, as from your statement it seems that you know for sure that they were.

Even if they were, seeing as mining personal data is the big thing for making money, do you really think that MS would ignore such a potentially rich source of revenue?

I guess you could just unplug it whenever not using it to play games though, and use a TV remote/controller when not gaming to control your TV and console, rather than waving your arms about and talking to your TV like a lonely weirdo so as to make sure that i can't gather information about what is going on in your living-room, bedroom, den, child's bedroom, wherever...


RE: Still yawning
By inighthawki on 8/21/2013 3:46:05 AM , Rating: 2
No, the patents were with the always on technology, and the ability to monitor what is happening. You and others need to understand the clear difference between this concept and the concept of actually recording information. First and foremost, in order for Microsoft or the NSA to get a live feed of your living room, the video stream needs to be sent over a network connection. Yes that's right, data needs to actually be transmitted. There aren't some fancy backdoors that give access to the NSA for their viewing pleasure.

The worst case scenario of the type of data they will send back is information regarding gestures and the like. There is absolutely no way they will actually send back anything that could personally identify anyone or anything in the room. It would require an actual camera feed, and this will NEVER happen. Even if they wanted to and tried, they would get busted so fast they would hemorrhage money from lawsuits and the loss of customers.

The kind of video processing done by the kinect is little more than image analysis to identify key pieces of information in order to recognize shapes and motions. It is not recorded, it is only analyzed. Big difference. The camera is just a data source for the image processing, nothing more. They cannot see into your living room, this is just a lie.


RE: Still yawning
By Aloonatic on 8/21/2013 1:11:10 PM , Rating: 2
Few, good job that games consoles aren't connected to the internet then.

:o)


RE: Still yawning
By inighthawki on 8/21/2013 1:27:45 PM , Rating: 2
Connected to the internet does not mean they are transferring the data across a network. That is like presuming that the NSA can peak through your phones camera at will just because it has one and is connected online. Obviously false, so why would the Kinect do anything different?


RE: Still yawning
By mithusmagus on 8/20/2013 6:52:54 PM , Rating: 2
Did they change the policy on all the stuff you just mentioned? I don't see how that is Humble Consumerism. Microsoft comes out with said policies, the public outcries, and then Microsoft changes policies to pacify public. What more do you want? How is that Humble Consumerism? Kinect doesn't have to be connected. No more 24 hr online connection. Can use used games. That is where the whole Xbox 180 label came from.
Do you check what the current policies are before you bash stuff?


RE: Still yawning
By ihateu3 on 8/21/2013 12:08:34 AM , Rating: 2
Still $100 more, for mainly the same hardware. I am not biased either, I am a PC gamer, I am just calling it as it is.


RE: Still yawning
By inighthawki on 8/21/2013 1:31:51 AM , Rating: 2
Very true. People certainly will claim that the kinect is not worth $100 more. This can be argued, as the technology in the kinect costed money to research and development, and I heard it itself is basically a small computer with a custom made chip inside for processing, which costs money too. Considering the technology behind it and the fact that I expect the OS on the xbox to be more feature complete and solid than whatever the PS4 ships with, I'd argue that $100 is worthwhile. However I can certainly understand the perspective of someone who does not feel the cost is justified. And of course, nobody is forcing anyone to buy and xbox one (or any console, for that matter).


RE: Still yawning
By pluto7777 on 8/21/2013 5:53:19 AM , Rating: 2
Seems to me, not listening to customer feedback is what got them in this mess. No used games? Always on Internet? Mandatory Kinect? $500 dollar console? If they had spent maybe an hour or two reading the forums in the years it took them to create the Xbone they would realize nobody wants this. They're only listening now because interest has flatlined.


RE: Still yawning
By retrospooty on 8/21/2013 1:27:10 PM , Rating: 2
"They're only listening now because interest has flatlined."

Exactly... MS isnt "listening" MS is responding to massive public backlash from its customers, and ridicule from its competitors. The issue existed in the first place from MS NOT listening to their customers.


RE: Still yawning
By inighthawki on 8/21/2013 1:28:32 PM , Rating: 2
Isn't that the definition of listening?


RE: Still yawning
By retrospooty on 8/21/2013 3:47:17 PM , Rating: 2
Uhhh... No. One is listening, the other is conceding. Considering all of the threads you are involved with you would know exactly what is going on. If you would try to look at things objectively instead of blindly defending MS on every thread you might see it.


RE: Still yawning
By Reclaimer77 on 8/21/2013 4:01:18 PM , Rating: 3
Nope. Microsoft did the same thing with Windows 8.

Let's be clear, during the public testing phase and extended release candidate stage, Microsoft received overwhelming negative feedback and many many millions of earnest suggestions and objections. They chose to simply not listen and plow ahead irregardless.

Only when their bottom line was threatened, did they announce Windows 8.1. Which addresses some, I stress some, of the most recurring complaints with the OS.

They were fully committed to the Xbox One original concept. Microsoft even had officers outright insulting customers and making inflammatory public statements, trivializing objectors in questionable taste.

It was only when Microsoft began to realize gamers were gong to overwhelmingly choose the PlayStation over their console, did they start to announce reversals on their original anti-customer intentions.

To me this isn't really "listening".


RE: Still yawning
By GPig on 8/22/2013 2:32:39 AM , Rating: 2
The officer you refer to was the head of the Xbox group... who has sacked! They couldn't do anymore than that.

With regard to Windows 8, perhaps they should have sacked Sinofsky a few months earlier and put some of the 8.1 changes into the launch product. They released an unfinished product, that is pretty much well known.


Nice work
By amypaige654 on 8/21/2013 4:43:43 PM , Rating: 1


Im really thankful to Ricky Casanoir that commented last week in this site and suggested me this site to earn money online. By just following simple 3 steps you get on the verge of making easy amount at home. ... http://xurl.es/yvp6p




RE: Nice work
By Reclaimer77 on 8/21/2013 5:00:38 PM , Rating: 2
Thanks Amy. Hey wanna earn even more money? I have a nice c*#k over here that needs servicing. Chop chop!


RE: Nice work
By anactoraaron on 8/21/2013 8:13:20 PM , Rating: 2
HA!

Do these fuktars really expect anyone that regularly visits a tech site to actually click on any of their links??

...well maybe testerguy might...


RE: Nice work
By retrospooty on 8/21/2013 11:08:12 PM , Rating: 2
maybe, but only to argue.


RE: Nice work
By Mitch101 on 8/22/2013 12:41:20 AM , Rating: 2
Its most likely a bot not an actual person making the spam posts.


RE: Nice work
By retrospooty on 8/22/2013 8:04:30 AM , Rating: 2
I am sure they are... I was just commenting on Anactoraaron's jab at Tester. That guy would go argue with a bot. And probably insult the bot then insist he is right and the bot is just a fanbot.


Ew
By EnzoFX on 8/20/2013 7:43:26 PM , Rating: 2
Even ignoring the bs they were trying to pull (you can't gain trust back just for reversing idiotic policies, how the hell can one know you won't try something similar again?), I won't be encouraging their push for a tv box.




By jnemesh on 8/21/2013 3:36:35 PM , Rating: 2
The PS3, PS4 and Vita are getting Minecraft...of course they arent getting the "XBox One Edition"...but it needs to be off the list.




w­w­w.w­o­r­k­2­5.c­o­m
By shannaemoon on 8/20/13, Rating: -1
"We can't expect users to use common sense. That would eliminate the need for all sorts of legislation, committees, oversight and lawyers." -- Christopher Jennings














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