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Microsoft pulls no punches in pointing out PS3 mistakes

Console wars are the sweet fuel to all fanboy discussions, and whenever a representative of a particular games company says something particularly scathing about the competition, explosions are sure to follow.

Xbox product manager Aaron Greenberg recently spoke out in an interview with Destructoid regarding all the apparent shortcomings of Sony’s current PlayStation execution. “We have been fighting Sony’s promises from the day we entered the market and if you remember at that time it was all about PS2 being an online cybercity with partner announcements from the likes of RealNetworks and AOL,” he said.

Greenberg’s comments were in response to a question regarding whether or not Microsoft would be able to stand up against what will likely be PlayStation 3’s best year yet with games such as Metal Gear Solid 4, LittleBigPlanet, among others. But Greenberg isn’t completely taken with Sony’s software promises, saying, “Then three years ago at E3 they showed what PS3 games would supposedly look like with the Killzone 2 video, that we are now learning will ship four years later. That means that we will have shipped Gears of War and Gears of War 2 before they can even get Killzone out the door.”

PlayStation Home was announced at the Game Developers Conference in March 2007, and is more than a year behind schedule, although Greenberg figured it as two years. “Think back to GDC 2007 when Sony promised to leap ahead in online with the Sony Home unveil. Here we are two years later and multiple delays for a product that has appears to have little to no buzz.”

Greenberg then opened the floodgates with a barrage of critical questions: “Where are the achievements? The friends list integration across all games? Where is the long-promised video store? Where are all the other products using and networking with their CELL chip? How come Blu-ray did not result in better games? What happened with Sixaxis and rumble? Where is the complete 1080p game library we were promised? If Blu-ray as they said would be such a catalyst to PS3 console sales, then why have PS3 sales over the past couple months not seen any lift since the format victory?”

With all that said, Greenberg returned to preaching the strengths of the Xbox 360. “The reality is that Xbox 360 is leading this generation with a larger installed base, more than 2xs the games library, the most exclusives along with the leading online service and community. While we have not yet announced all of our plans for the full year, I am confident that we will extend our lead over the PS3 in 2008,” he said.

While the best of 2008 has yet to arrive (with the exception of Grand Theft Auto IV), the fight for second place is far from over. The first place, of course, appears to be firmly in the grasp of Nintendo with its Wii.

Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter predicted that even with the release of Rockstar’s latest open-world hit, the Wii would be the top selling console of April by a huge margin. Pachter estimated that the Wii outsold the PS3 and Xbox 360 combined, though he also figured that Sony’s machine sold more than Microsoft’s console. NPD Group findings will be available this Friday.



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Pot kettle black
By DigitalFreak on 5/13/2008 9:25:27 AM , Rating: 4
People in glass houses...

I'd rather have Sony's "poor execution" on the PS3 than the technical disaster that is the RROD...




RE: Pot kettle black
By JasonMick (blog) on 5/13/2008 9:31:45 AM , Rating: 5
While Sony and Microsoft both have good products, they both fall into the unfortunate position where they must compete with each other to win, which is essential due to their respective massive hardware investments.

The true genius of Nintendo's business strategy is that they positioned themselves outside this competition. Most serious gamers I know own a PS3 or Xbox 360 AND a Wii. And many casual gamers only want the Wii.

It's not surprising that Microsoft and Sony snipe each other -- they have to. It's a tough lot for them.


RE: Pot kettle black
By JAB on 5/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: Pot kettle black
By FITCamaro on 5/13/2008 9:51:12 AM , Rating: 3
Untrue. Good marketing will always allow a product that is inferior or equal to outsell the other one.

Heck look at Macs. They're more expensive, often less capable hardware wise than PCs, and in reality OSX isn't any better than Vista(or vice versa). But Apple's marketing is top notch so they sell.


RE: Pot kettle black
By psychobriggsy on 5/13/2008 10:01:03 AM , Rating: 5
We really don't need ANOTHER flame war to emerge in this discussion, so quit trying to bait even more people, eh?


RE: Pot kettle black
By Ryanman on 5/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: Pot kettle black
By aos007 on 5/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: Pot kettle black
By 4wardtristan on 5/13/2008 8:56:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Good marketing will always allow a product that is inferior or equal to outsell the other one


netburst.


RE: Pot kettle black
By Arribajuan on 5/13/2008 9:59:35 AM , Rating: 1
Yes,

bringing a better product will naturally be better than rely on marketing.

I do not think they are holding out of a better product, they just cannot do it yet...

having a $50 360 that never fails and includes br will be so much better and it will eliminate competition. Not even the wii can manage to do that at this point.


RE: Pot kettle black
By B3an on 5/13/2008 10:35:41 AM , Rating: 3
No it's all about marketing. Look at Apple. Then look at PS2 vs Dreamcast, the DC was a great console with better games at the time, but everyone waited for PS2 and it's "movie like" graphics because of the Sony hype machine.

Same with PS3, how many people fell for basically the same thing, that fake computer rendered Killzone vid amongst others? I know some people who actually thought game-play graphics were going to look like that, i still mock them about it today.

I'm sure history will repeat with PS4.


RE: Pot kettle black
By AlphaVirus on 5/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: Pot kettle black
By robinthakur on 5/13/2008 11:32:51 AM , Rating: 5
The buzz surrounding the Wii is not all media driven its spread by word of mouth and experientially which is always the best kind.

Your minority view of the Dreamcast amongst the gaming cogniscenti means that you know not of what you speak and are in fact a charlatan. I enjoyed my time with the DC a billion times more than my time with the PS2. Maybe because that time was cut short of what it should have been. Sony's erm...exaggerated is the kindest way to say it...pre-marketing of the PS2 definitely had a big effect on the DC and ultimately killed it as well as Sega, despite its strong user base of over 10 Million and decent software library. HOTD2, all those great Capcom fighters, Soul Calibre, Power Stone, Shen Mue, Virtua Fighter 3, Seaman, Daytona, Ferrari Challenge, Jet Set Radio, Crazy Taxi, Samba de Amigo, Space Channel 5, Ikaruga, DOA 2, Virtual On 2, and I could go on for a while. The Dreamcast could definitely compete graphically, and most if not all of the games still look sharp but not jagged today thanks to the AA built in. I remember the first time I saw a PS2 running being initally so excited and then saw the blurry graphics with poor textures on RR5 and Tekken Tag and was very underwhelmed. Don't knock the DC and show some respect, you just highlight your own ignorance if you don't. Of all the failed consoles that didn't quite make it, its fate was the most undeserved.

I saw a 360 commercial yesterday (in the UK) for GTA4 and it just reminded me that I never play the noisy room heater lately. Obviously the marketing must be making me play the Wii and PS3 more at the moment...


RE: Pot kettle black
By StevoLincolnite on 5/13/2008 2:38:48 PM , Rating: 3
I also loved the Dreamcast, it was a console far ahead of it's time, it was released while Nintendo and Sony were playing with the Nintendo 64 and Playstation 1, However it's graphics to me looked superior to the Playstation 2 in terms of color clarity, not to mention the amount of homebrew games, and the ability to overclock the console and turn it into a HTPC of sorts, and even though the console died out many years before hand, there were games STILL being released years after the consoles demise.
The Console used the PowerVR video chipset, I do however wished they used a 3dfx card, as that would have been more valuable to me in this day and age.

And the console could also have it's own modem so people actually caught a glimpse of multi player capability's of the future, The only downside was that allot of webpages that used flash would not work.

The console could even run Quake 3 Arena that rivaled the PC in terms of quality and performance.

Long live the Sega Dreamcast.


RE: Pot kettle black
By BansheeX on 5/13/08, Rating: 0
RE: Pot kettle black
By robinthakur on 5/16/2008 5:29:21 AM , Rating: 3
Well, ignoring your FUD about the sexy DC for the moment, Sony's marketing this time around DID still have an effect in that alot of people held off buying a 360 until they saw the PS3 for what it was. The thing in common with both outings is that Sony see fit to influence the market widely with their rampant marketing of vapourware and over estimation of its abilities. Sure I know its the marketing department's job to a degree, but even the thick buying public will start to realise that alot of the publicity fluff is just that. I'm impressed they even tried it this time round with some off the shelf parts like the "RSX" (aka Geforce 7800GTX) which everybody knows is now ages old. This knowledge helps to manage people's expectations of what it can produce graphically. i.e. not 1080p native games.

Back in the DC's day, people expected PS2 graphics and gameplay to be a world away from the DC, and it just didn't happen that way. Sega died a death by catering to the purist gamers, not doing enough marketing and producing decent arcade conversions and mature fun games which not everybody appreciated. For example only a certain percentage of the population would be willing to play Samba De Amigo or Space Channel 5. Nowadays everyone plays the Wii using similar mechanics without shame and a version of Samba is even coming to it. Therefore in some regards Sega WAS ahead of its time. Nintendo just made all those weird arcade games which depends on peripherals, possible in the home and cheaper. You can see that by how many Sega dreamcast conversions are being released.

Don't diss the DC just because it didn't appeal to you. I don't think your limited experience of it reflect most people's. Mine certainly never made squeeking noises and the controllers were really innovative having the VMU built in to it. I hardly used the standard controller much, as I bought pretty much every single controller released in Japan for it (love the Virtual On Twinsticks still). Sega did alot of things right with the DC but alot of developers stopped developing games for DC once the PS2 was announced.

The market now is VERY different and has been commodotized alot more with people spending huge amounts marketing and producing often mediocre games like 'Halo' which managed to wring 3 games out of a very average debut.

Sega had a long and successful run, or do you not remember the monumentally successful Genesis or the Master System, not to mention their arcade pedigree? Sega has since been but a shadow of its former self with only Virtua Fighter 5 holding my attention and most of their talent seems to have ebbed away. However credit where credit's due and Sega's demise makes me sad. I wasn't actually a Sega fan before I bought a DC. I own both the PS3 and the PS2 (as well as 2 PSP's and several PS1's) but it has brought a certain delight to me to watch Sony struggle as they currently do. I might remind you also that Sony released the PSX, which flopped and was pretty swiftly killed and the original PSP which spectacularly failled against the DS. Truly, this is karma.


RE: Pot kettle black
By sweetsauce on 5/13/2008 11:33:15 AM , Rating: 5
Are you serious? The hype machine on the ps2 was the biggest fraud ever. Emotion chip? 70 million polygons? People have short memories. The dreamcast was better than the ps2 in every way imaginable. If it had any damn support from developers, sega would still be making systems today. Instead we got a bunch of developers being held hostage by sony since the dev kits for the ps2 were "limited" and you had to play ball with sony to get one.


RE: Pot kettle black
By zombiexl on 5/13/2008 11:43:09 AM , Rating: 3
I agree DC crushed the PS2 in gameplay and graphix.

Too bad Sega couldn't get any decent developers (although the sega sports games were the best) to put games out for it.


RE: Pot kettle black
By afkrotch on 5/13/08, Rating: 0
RE: Pot kettle black
By omnicronx on 5/13/2008 1:52:09 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I'm thinking we aren't the ones with short memories. I remember the POS DC. How many ppl remember the Dreamcast BSODs you'd get like twice a day? That or just random lockups.
Just because you do not remember, does not mean it it not true.

from wiki:
quote:
In April 1999, Sony announced its PlayStation 2. The actual release of the PS2 was not until March 2000 in Japan, and October 26, 2000 in the United States. Sony's press release, despite being a year ahead of the launch of the PS2, was enough to divert a lot of attention from Sega. With the looming PS2 launch in Japan, the Dreamcast was largely ignored in that territory. While the system had great initial success in the United States, it had trouble maintaining this momentum after news of the PS2's release.
The playstation 2 and the dreamcast had very similar specs, but i would have to give the dreamcast the advantage as it had a built in modem, and it was more versitile in general (you could even run linux). Many people pegged the fall of the dreamcast squarely on the BS that sony released about the PS2.. Sony claimed it was suppose to bring us into the age of the internet, something the PS3 has still failed to do(this was only the tip of the iceburg of features that never materialized). If thats not over hyping something, I do not know what is.. and lets not get started about the rumor that the ps2 could power a missile. Not that I was into consoles back then, but I remember even playing my friends in quake3 on dreamcast.. I was on the PC, and they played me no their dreamcasts in the same server.

One thing to note though, I forget what actually happened, but Sega managed to piss off a bunch of 3rd party developers during the sega saturn days which apparently did not help the situation.


RE: Pot kettle black
By BansheeX on 5/13/2008 2:06:50 PM , Rating: 1
I would give the PS2 the clear edge as the DC had zero backwards compatibility, a lower capacity media format, a louder drive (sqweek sqweek sqweek sqweek sqweek) while gaming, a drive which did not double as a DVD player, and one of the most poorly designed controllers in console history. Sega was also notorious for coming out with a new console every time you went to the bathroom in order to "get a headstart" on the competition by launching prematurely. What gamer wanted to continue supporting such a model? Not very many, thus its clear and warranted failure despite being quite comparable to the PS2 with regards to graphical prowess.

Unfortunately for DC fans, you're simply not looking at the big picture when you compare nothing but raw gaming potential. The correct comparison is that the PS2 could do everything the DC could do and a hell of a lot more.

And don't even try comparing the the DC to the Wii today. The DC was marketed to the same traditional segment and had the same traditional controller and had the same traditional design. The Wii is marketed to non-gamers, it has an airmouse controller, and is designed like a chic and trendy Apple product.


RE: Pot kettle black
By omnicronx on 5/13/2008 3:34:34 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Unfortunately for DC fans, you're simply not looking at the big picture when you compare nothing but raw gaming potential. The correct comparison is that the PS2 could do everything the DC could do and a hell of a lot more.

I was not a DC fan, I did no even play console games at that point. My point was Sony overhyped the PS2 so much, that Sega was almost out of business before Sony even released their console.

For god sakes sony said they could render movies on the emotion engine =P. They also said it would bring us into the internet age, and stories even came out that it had the components needed to power a missile. These were promises by Sony, they basically told the public these features would be implemented in the PS2 even though they must have known that this was not the case. The PS2 was a superior console in that it was more powerful, and could play DVDS, but other than that the dreamcast could do things that sony promised 2 years before the PS2 was even released but failed to deliver.


RE: Pot kettle black
By BansheeX on 5/13/2008 9:08:28 PM , Rating: 1
If you think that Sega failed as a result of Sony's goofball marketing campaign, you simply don't know your history. Sega can look in the mirror for the cause of every failure after the Genesis. I also find it funny that when it comes to Sony, absolutely no credit is given to THEIR games and system designs. Do you have any idea how incredible the PS1 and PS2 libraries are? Do you have any idea how amazing it is to have a product interval as long as seven years? We had it good before MS came along and don't ever forget it. All this arguing, all this bullsh%t over exclusives and similarly powerful consoles, and for what? So MS can beat its chest and put another trillion dollars in its treasure chest? Sorry, this didn't have to happen, but impatience and mudslinging is a powerful thing.

Let's put it this way: for MS to even have a chance this generation (and trends are telling us that they will still get outsold in the end), they had to launch one year prematurely with known defects and a loud-as-f&^ck last-gen drive. How did MS manage to do what Sega couldn't? Two things:

1. An already established PC gaming development monopoly
2. Wads and wads of money at their dispoal. The RRoD issue alone would have sunk Sega in a month. MS? Just casually throws billions at replacing 30% of its shipped units... no biggie. And who is this jerk at the top of the article they are paying to just sling mud at Sony? I'll bet they've got a whole black ops internet team posting pro-MS fud trying to convince people that paying for netplay and countless add-ons is actually the superior model of console gaming.

*sigh*


RE: Pot kettle black
By afkrotch on 5/13/2008 2:37:23 PM , Rating: 1
Oh dear god, did you just post what I think you posted. Here, let me make that wiki entry look moronic with the same exact wiki entries.

from wiki:
quote:
The Sega Dreamcast was released on November 27, 1998 in Japan; on September 9, 1999 in North America (the date 9/9/99 featured heavily in U.S. promotion); and on October 14, 1999 in Europe. The tagline used to promote the console in the U.S. was, "It's thinking", and in Europe, "Up to [6 Billion] Players."
quote:


quote:
In April 1999, Sony announced its PlayStation 2. The actual release of the PS2 was not until March 2000 in Japan, and October 26, 2000 in the United States. Sony's press release, despite being a year ahead of the launch of the PS2, was enough to divert a lot of attention from Sega. With the looming PS2 launch in Japan, the Dreamcast was largely ignored in that territory. While the system had great initial success in the United States, it had trouble maintaining this momentum after news of the PS2's release.


Now let me ask you this. How the hell did the Dreamcast have trouble maintaining it's momentum after the news of the PS2 release, if that news came out before the Dreamcast was even released in the states?

quote:
The playstation 2 and the dreamcast had very similar specs, but i would have to give the dreamcast the advantage as it had a built in modem, and it was more versitile in general (you could even run linux). Many people pegged the fall of the dreamcast squarely on the BS that sony released about the PS2.. Sony claimed it was suppose to bring us into the age of the internet, something the PS3 has still failed to do(this was only the tip of the iceburg of features that never materialized). If thats not over hyping something, I do not know what is.. and lets not get started about the rumor that the ps2 could power a missile. Not that I was into consoles back then, but I remember even playing my friends in quake3 on dreamcast.. I was on the PC, and they played me no their dreamcasts in the same server.


http://playstation2-linux.com/

Unlike the Dreamcast, Sony put out their own Linux for Playstation 2. Actually a whole package. Not to mention that website is hosted by Sony. Sega never officially supported Linux on Dreamcast. Sony did put out some Linux product for the original Playstation also, but it was only a Japan product.

Not sure how Sony clained the PS2 would being us to the internet age, when it didn't have online capabilities on release and didn't get online capabilities until 2 years later.

The PS2 being able to power a missile. Sony didn't say anything about that, it was the Japanese government that thought parts of the PS2 could be used for military applications.

Quake 3...wow. Throw Linux on the PS2, same thing.


RE: Pot kettle black
By omnicronx on 5/13/2008 3:21:55 PM , Rating: 2
Nice spiel.. But you really don't know what you are talking about. Its not like the PS2 was announced in Apr99 detailing all the features, in fact at that point little was known except it was suppose to be 'THE MOST POWERFULL CONSOLE EVER'.
Leading up to its release is where the sony PR kicked in with all its glory (march 2000).

This is not posted on wiki for no reason:
quote:
Dreamcast was widely hailed as ahead of its time, and is still held in high regard for pioneering online console gaming.[4] Nevertheless, it failed to gather enough momentum before the release of the PlayStation 2 in March 2000
It was a well known fact at the time that people waiting for the a bunch of PS2 features that would never be was one of the main causes of the dreamcast failing.

Either you were 13 and do not remember, or you just plain were not paying attention, but thats what happened..


RE: Pot kettle black
By afkrotch on 5/13/2008 4:16:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Nice spiel.. But you really don't know what you are talking about. Its not like the PS2 was announced in Apr99 detailing all the features, in fact at that point little was known except it was suppose to be 'THE MOST POWERFULL CONSOLE EVER'.
Leading up to its release is where the sony PR kicked in with all its glory (march 2000).


Now it sounds like you are backing out of your original Wiki quote. Nice.

quote:
quote:

Dreamcast was widely hailed as ahead of its time, and is still held in high regard for pioneering online console gaming.[4] Nevertheless, it failed to gather enough momentum before the release of the PlayStation 2 in March 2000

It was a well known fact at the time that people waiting for the a bunch of PS2 features that would never be was one of the main causes of the dreamcast failing.

Either you were 13 and do not remember, or you just plain were not paying attention, but thats what happened..


Even if the listing of features didn't start popping up, the Dreamcast still had a massive lead over the PS2.

The Xbox 360 did much the same thing and where does it stand now?


RE: Pot kettle black
By omnicronx on 5/13/2008 4:39:31 PM , Rating: 2
Comparing Sega, which in 2001 maybe had a profit of 1B to Microsoft, a company that farts 5 Billion and nobody cares, is not a good comparison. Microsoft had a loss of who knows how much money on the original Xbox, Sega had no such money to play with. Its as simple as that.. Just look at Nintendo, after the gamecube they knew they could not compete with the big players, whom both had huge amounts of money comming in from other divisions. Their solution was gameplay over power, keeping them in what some would argue is a different market, than the other consoles, and it seems to have worked out..

As for the wiki quote, I already outlined that it was sony PR leading up to the release of the ps2, not what they said the day it was announced. There was really is nothing to back out of here.. you played around with the dates to make your points seem valid, when in reality they were not..


RE: Pot kettle black
By virtuallyserved on 5/13/2008 11:37:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
When the Wii, 360, and PS3 were all first announced, the Wii was laughed at by many if not all gamers. But with enough commercials and marketing hype the Wii managed to pull way ahead of the 360 and has kept its pace the entire time. When was the last time you saw a 360 commercial...besides the Halo release?


I'll agree that marketing plays a substantial part in the success of the console, just not in terms commercials- you have to acknowledge in the very least the existence of strong games (even if most are only first party titles on existing fanchises, they do have several good third party titles) and a solid price point. Combine that with a separated market position, and a strong preexisting fan base, then you've got a successful console.

Oh, and don't forget the Wiimote gimmick.

The truth is, Nintendo's marketing machine and products simply hit multiple demographics without needing to play on the same field as Sony or MS.


RE: Pot kettle black
By elgueroloco on 5/13/2008 3:56:22 PM , Rating: 2
The secret of Nintendo's success is that they have never lost sight of what a console and its games are supposed to be: simple fun. That is exactly what Nintendo delivers on all of its platforms, simple fun and plenty of it. Also low prices. That is why they will always win in my book.


RE: Pot kettle black
By Sulphademus on 5/13/2008 11:40:46 AM , Rating: 5
To the DC vs PS2 battle.

I knew people who refused to buy a Dreamcast because they honestly believe the internet hype about the PS2 being so powerful that it was capable of launching nuclear missles and such.

Sony's hype machine killed Sega before open-mindedness and a fair-shot had a chance to take hold. (Regardless of which was actually a better platform.)

Oddly enough, the PS2 was a technological hodge-podge with, what was it? 8? processors stapled together. Similar to the Sega Saturn really. The PS3 actually IS a tech marvel but isn't taking the market by storm. The Wii is far more similar to the Dreamcast's KISS design. Strange how things work.


RE: Pot kettle black
By afkrotch on 5/13/2008 1:17:34 PM , Rating: 1
Ppl refused to create games or make games for the Dreamcast because of Sega, not because of Sony.

You had the Genesis, great system. Then they put out the Sega CD, which was expensive and really wasn't an improvement. Then they came out with the 32X, which was short lived, because the Saturn was around the corner. Then the Saturn was quickly killed off by Sega after barely 2 years, to bring out the Dreamcast. It didn't even last up to the release of the Dreamcast.

quote:
Oddly enough, the PS2 was a technological hodge-podge with, what was it? 8? processors stapled together. Similar to the Sega Saturn really. The PS3 actually IS a tech marvel but isn't taking the market by storm. The Wii is far more similar to the Dreamcast's KISS design. Strange how things work.


If that's what you think, you really don't know much about the PS2. It had an EE, GPU, Audio, and I/O proc. Saturn had a total of 8 procs. The Dreamcast had 4 procs.

The EE was like a precursor for the Cell proc also. But seeing as the EE was designed by Sony and Toshiba and the Cell is by Sony, Toshiba, and IBM, that's a bit expected.


RE: Pot kettle black
By omnicronx on 5/13/2008 2:06:48 PM , Rating: 3
The Emotion engine really has nothing to do with the cell. Just because Toshiba and Sony worked on a project does not in anyway mean that it is a precusor to another. I don't know where you got this information but one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Just the fact that first implementations of the cell were released in 2001 (the year the PS2 was released, meaning it was probably in development before the emotion engine was even finished) shows this.

The rest of your post is bang on though.. I forgot the reason the 3rd part Devs disliked Sega.


RE: Pot kettle black
By afkrotch on 5/13/2008 3:02:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The Emotion engine really has nothing to do with the cell. Just because Toshiba and Sony worked on a project does not in anyway mean that it is a precusor to another. I don't know where you got this information but one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Just the fact that first implementations of the cell were released in 2001 (the year the PS2 was released, meaning it was probably in development before the emotion engine was even finished) shows this.


You need to read up both procs. There are similiarities. The biggest one being that data is split and pushed to different processing units. In the Cell, data is pushed to different SPEs by the PPC. In the EE, data is pushed to a VPU by the MIPS and within the VPU is 4 FMACs and 1 FDIV. Once cleared, it moves to the 2nd VPU which has 5 FMACs and 2 FDIVs. The whole concept of one powerful proc and multiple lower power procs to do the processing was present in the EE.

Also 2000 was when Toshiba, Sony, and IBM joined up. 2001 was when they started working on designing the Cell. They had nothing at that point. The EE was out before work on the Cell even started.


RE: Pot kettle black
By wempa on 5/13/2008 12:34:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Then you dropped the ball with this one. I don't remember a single day where the DC was a better console than the PS2. The DC launched 16 months before PS2 and still did no good.


Ummm, no he didn't. The DC sold EXTREMELY well, even without support of a lot of third-party support like EA. Sony's announcement a full ONE YEAR before the PS2 diverted all the momentum from the DC to anticipation of the PS2. Had it not been for that announcement, the DC would have gained a lot more traction. I think that comment was right on the money.


RE: Pot kettle black
By Hawkido on 5/19/2008 6:37:02 PM , Rating: 1
Not to bang on the two groups of pro PS and pro DC people...
Both have valid arguments, Clearly the PS won... But the DC was an outstanding console with some really good looking and fun games...

But here is the kicker

quote:
Sony's announcement a full ONE YEAR before the PS2 diverted all the momentum from the DC to anticipation of the PS2.


If your product folds at the mention of a rumor, then the support behind it was horrible to begin with. (not saying the product was horrible *erm* betamax *erm*, just the support)

End of discussion...


RE: Pot kettle black
By afkrotch on 5/13/2008 12:07:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Then look at PS2 vs Dreamcast, the DC was a great console with better games at the time, but everyone waited for PS2 and it's "movie like" graphics because of the Sony hype machine.


Huh? The reason the DC was an utter failure, was because of the Saturn. Majority of game developers stayed away from the DC because of the lackluster Saturn and previous Sega console additions 32x or Sega CD. Who wants to support a console that barely lasts a couple years? You put out a couple games, then wait for the next console they'd put out.

By the time the PS2 came out, it easily overpowered the DC with it's higher capabilities. The first couple of months, there were already a good listing of games available for the PS2. More than the amount of Dreamcast games available in it's first year, unless you want to count Japanese games.


RE: Pot kettle black
By JAB on 5/13/2008 12:38:54 PM , Rating: 2
We have a winner. The PS2 had serious appeal because it had legs. Sega did not and it was not cheap. Two years to invest in a new console no way.

Sorry but why in the world start Apple PS2 basing for no reason? I will agre that marketing plays a big role in Apples success but they would not keep interest if they did not deliver in the eyes of those buying it. On the hole they seem very happy with them and dont mind the higher up front price for what they want. The biggest part of Apple's marketing success if figuring out what their customers want and delivering it. They dont have to make windows people happy that is a different market. They are not going to go after the core MS market so don't attack them for that. They cant they are not big enough.


RE: Pot kettle black
By wempa on 5/13/2008 12:52:20 PM , Rating: 2
It's true that several third-party developers stayed away from the DC. This definitely did not make it easy for Sega. However, there were plenty of quality games to keep interest in the DC very high. The PS2 announcement, followed by the Xbox and Gamecube announcements, killed the DC.


RE: Pot kettle black
By afkrotch on 5/13/2008 1:23:21 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not saying that there weren't quality games, but when your whole game catalog is about as big as your competitor's launch catalog, it's no wonder ppl would quickly dump your console in favor of the new released console.


RE: Pot kettle black
By Samus on 5/13/2008 11:59:14 PM , Rating: 1
Notice Nintendo just plays the back burner which MS and Sony duke it out old skool.


RE: Pot kettle black
By theflux on 5/13/2008 11:30:15 AM , Rating: 3
Unfortunately for third-party publishers, a console positioned outside of the competition doesn't move software at the rate of one inside it. That is unless of course you are Nintendo or have a Nintendo license.

Of all your friends who also have the Wii, how many play it other than when the latest Nintendo game hits?


RE: Pot kettle black
By virtuallyserved on 5/13/2008 11:43:28 AM , Rating: 2
Personally, the three games I play the most are not first party titles: GHIII, Lego Star Wars and Godfather.

The games my friends play, however, follow the trends a little more strongly- recently it's been Super Smash Brothers Brawl, and Mario Cart, preceded by GHIII- but it is a strong first party trend amongst my friends.


RE: Pot kettle black
By cmdrdredd on 5/13/2008 6:35:44 PM , Rating: 2
I guess I don't fall into your MOST category. I have a 360, PS3, and a high end PC. I don't own nor want a Wii. I am a hardcore gamer.


RE: Pot kettle black
By Cobra Commander on 5/13/2008 9:32:42 AM , Rating: 2
I feel like fanning the flames:

I'd rather have clean, stupid fun on the Wii and not have either technical flaws or horrible execution of the 'superior' consoles. :P


RE: Pot kettle black
By ninjaquick on 5/13/2008 9:49:16 AM , Rating: 1
Im not saying i like a console more than the next. I had an xbox 360 but had to sell it to buy a motorcycle. I have used PS3s, and i love them, i have played with the Wii and it was fun. But ill say this much. The wii is the buggiest console i have ever used. Bar none. The xbox 360 is stable as a rock. I never once encountered a bad twitch in the UI or any kind of heating issues. playstation 3s are dream machines, as far as stability and overall natural playability (legacy control layout.
I played several titles for wii, and the only one that caught my attention was Super Mario Galaxy, and that was ONLY because i love Super Mario games.
And i wont even talk about the Wiis home page and the buggy wiimote.
Im not a fanboy for any company really, id only buy a ps3 over an xbox or wii cause i happened to love Gran Turismo, have owned them all and now want GT5. Also, its great to just put linux on it and have a media pc for an HDTV, sure, it stops really being a game console at that point but who cares. It plays games and can do word processing.
My 0.02 dollars


RE: Pot kettle black
By giantpandaman2 on 5/13/2008 11:42:47 AM , Rating: 3
I own a Wii. It has no bugs to speak of. Chances are your wiimote battery was low or you were standing too far from the infrared bar. Either that or the console you were playing on wasn't doing so hot.

Please, if you're going to knock a console for being buggy, you should at least OWN one. Or perhaps have played more than a few hours on it.


RE: Pot kettle black
By Hiawa23 on 5/13/2008 10:09:41 AM , Rating: 5
As an owner of both the 360 & PS3, anyone at MS shouldn't be saying ****, about Sony's missteps with the RROD fiasco. Although, my 11/03/05 launch 360 cntinues to work flawlessly & I happen to enjoy alot more 360 games than PS3 games, & LIVE is great, MS has made some huge missteps themselves & given their 1 year lead, the 360 should be much further ahead of PS3 than it is, & the Wii has passed them, so I am not sure MS ought to be bashing anyone here.


RE: Pot kettle black
By Grast on 5/13/2008 11:28:58 AM , Rating: 2
RROD is the main reason why I have not purchased a Xbox 360. A 25% change a failure in the first year of ownership is not a product which I want to own.

In my outside opinion, the PS3 is too expensive and the 360 too unreliable for my tastes.

Later..


RE: Pot kettle black
By masa77 on 5/13/2008 10:51:13 AM , Rating: 1
Haha...well put. At least my PS3 doesn't sound like a Hoover. I also haven't had to return 3 of them as defective. I guess Microsoft needed to color co-ordinate so they came up with the red ring of death to go with the BSOD.


RE: Pot kettle black
By AlphaVirus on 5/13/2008 11:06:34 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
At least my PS3 doesn't sound like a Hoover.

I am not sure if I need to clean mine out or what, but when I play GTA4 it begins to sound like a Hoover. On every other game, its silent but GTA4 seems to stress it out...badly.


RE: Pot kettle black
By hduser on 5/13/2008 1:09:24 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Haha...well put. At least my PS3 doesn't sound like a Hoover.


I was playing my 360 Elite the past few days (GH3 and Burnout Paradise). All I kept thinking is how loud the DVD drive is. To cover up the noise I'd have to crank my TV to an uncomfortably loud range. The noise from my 360 took away most of the enjoyment of the game. I only hope that if there's a bluray drive coming to the 360 that it'd be quiet at least or at least offer a retrofit kit so we can dump our loud DVD drive.

The 360 has an decided edge now. It's really time for the PS3 to deliver this year, because I keep wondering when they'll deliver a game that fully meets the hardware potential. I hope MGS4 will deliver. If not, Sony will be stuck in third place for a very long time.


RE: Pot kettle black
By StupidMonkey on 5/13/2008 3:43:11 PM , Rating: 2
I work for a large retailer, we have had EVERY PS3 we have sold come back at least once. That is a 100% failure rate. When I get a PS3 in stock, I am in turn replacing someone else's who's on the list. Not to mention when GTA came out, Sony acknowledged that there is a bug in the hardware that causes it to perma crash. Hmm... Who has buggy hardware again?


RE: Pot kettle black
By othercents on 5/13/2008 11:33:43 AM , Rating: 5
So if someone was to purchase a new 360 they would still have the RROD? My understanding is that this issue has been fixed and the warranties extended to fix the other consoles. Yes, this should have been caught and fixed sooner instead of MS running the PR spin that they ran.

As of right now a new off the shelf 360 is not any more failure prone than the PS3, but the 360 also has better online support and better library of games. This is proven by having a much higher attachment ratio (IE games purchased per console).

Other


RE: Pot kettle black
By kellehair on 5/13/2008 12:39:24 PM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately the RROD problem has not yet been solved and new units in stores are still susceptible to it. Supposedly they have a lower failure rate but there is no hard data I know of to support that claim. The next chip, codename Jasper, is supposed to fix the problem. We'll see...


RE: Pot kettle black
By zombiexl on 5/13/2008 11:38:51 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe i'm just unlucky, but my PS3 died after about 40 hours of use. Fortunately Sony is a little better at getting replacements out.

Of course they made me send in my HD and I lost my game saves. Although they did get my game otu and send it back with the new (refurb). Lucky for me i play very little on the PS3.

My 360 was replaced 2x in 2 years. I have another year before i can say my PS3 has been any better.


RE: Pot kettle black
By afkrotch on 5/13/2008 1:33:38 PM , Rating: 2
My PS3 has run flawlessly, the only problems I've had is with United Airlines. Had my PS3 in my luggage inbetween lots of clothes. Only way to break it, is if you decided to jump up and down in the middle of my luggage. Needless to say, my PS3 still works, but has some exterior damage. As soon as a case replacement starts being made, I'm all over it.

Japanese 360. Died within the first month. I modded it, so warranty went out the window. Bought another Japanese 360. It broke within 2 months. Also modded it. 3rd 360 up to bat now. I play it a minimal amount and whenever I do play it, I have a table fan blowing on it. It's still surviving. Did a little modding too.

I bought a US 360 (Falcon). It seems to be doing a hell of a lot better than the previous versions. It's on it's 3rd month. Better than the 1st two and right behind my 3rd one, but it doesn't need the table fan, so it's better.


RE: Pot kettle black
By StupidMonkey on 5/13/2008 3:46:00 PM , Rating: 2
Umm... you're modding your systems and you dont expect them to fail?


RE: Pot kettle black
By omnicronx on 5/13/2008 4:11:12 PM , Rating: 2
Even worse, who buys a Japanse 360?


RE: Pot kettle black
By hduser on 5/13/2008 6:28:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Even worse, who buys a Japanse 360?

Well that accounts for the sales rise for the 360 in Japan last year ;)


RE: Pot kettle black
By boogle on 5/13/2008 4:02:44 PM , Rating: 3
I have both a 360 and a PS3, the 360 I've had since launch and it's not broken (yay!). The PS3 I've only had for a few months.

However, I prefer the PS3 for one simple reason: noise . The PS3 when playing a game is silent, the X360 on the other hand sounds like a tornado. Even if there's no disc in the drive and its running off the HD the fans are ludicrously noisy. You just can't get into a game on the 360 the way you can with the PS3, imagine walking down a dark hallway in a dark silent room, vs. walking down a dark hallway in a dark room with WHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Plus the PS3 plays DVDs and Blu-Rays at an exceptional quality level, but that's just icing on the cake. I really like my 360, but if a game is available for both I'll always go PS3. Plus the PS3 is free online :p


RE: Pot kettle black
By OblivionMage on 5/13/2008 9:26:55 PM , Rating: 2
Not really because if your console RRODS you get a new one. If your console was 'poorly executed' that should mean that its selection of games or overall quality is less, thus hurting you no matter what.


RE: Pot kettle black
By EglsFly on 5/13/2008 9:27:44 PM , Rating: 3
Aaron Greenberg.... Open mouth, insert FOOT!!!!

I guess this guy never got the memo(s).


Let's drill down the list, shall we?
By killerroach on 5/13/08, Rating: 0
RE: Let's drill down the list, shall we?
By FITCamaro on 5/13/2008 12:12:02 PM , Rating: 1
Both consoles are capable of the same level of graphics detail. Yes the 360 is more limited with 1080p but thats because of the storage medium, not hardware power. In reality though, neither console is really capable of an extremely involved game being rendered at 1080p with full detail. A 7800GT wasn't capable of 1920x1080 with full detail on the PC. It certainly isn't in a gimped form like the RSX inside the PS3. Especially not with only 256MB of RAM to work with.

Look at the few PS3 games that are 1080p but also exist on the 360 in 720p. There's hardly any detail compared to the 360 version.


RE: Let's drill down the list, shall we?
By deeznuts on 5/13/2008 2:18:28 PM , Rating: 1
NG Sigma was a beautiful game at 1080p. not sure if that qualifies as "involved" your term though. What few ps3 games that are 1080p but lack detail compared to the 360 version are you speaking of?

I tell you this, what does the 360 have that even remotely looks like KZ2, even in development? Certainly not GeOW2 which is out just a few months before. I'm not arguing the 360 can't achieve that level, but where is it? The 360 is easier to code for, we all know that. So I must ask where is it? I haven't bought one yet, but was thinking about one towards teh end of the year. My GF has one, so I already have access to it.

On a sidenote, check out the Eight Days trailer. http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/1478... Awesome! no point in that, just looks good.


By Hiawa23 on 5/13/2008 2:49:16 PM , Rating: 3
I am not getting into Killzone 2 VS Gow 1 & 2 nonsense that has lit up internet boards. Like the Xbox guy says, if you leave any game in the oven long enough, delay after delays at the very least it better look amazing if it's on the PS3 or 360, Sorry Wii fans.

Killzone 1 is my favorite PS2 game, it just seemed like the engine was too much for the console, so I am looking forward to Killzone2. Comparing one game to the other is apples to oranges in my book, different devs, different premise, different scope, style & when I get the final copy running on my TV in 2009, 2009, 2009, then I will be singing it's praises, until then can't really get excited over some internet vids, & I am more concerned how the game will play.


By Digimonkey on 5/13/2008 3:06:26 PM , Rating: 2
To me KZ 2 and GoW2 look to have very near the same graphical detail. GoW2 so far looks more fun. Still I hope KZ 2 lives up to the hype, as I'll probably get it if it has multiplayer coop.


RE: Let's drill down the list, shall we?
By omnicronx on 5/13/2008 3:08:22 PM , Rating: 2
Killzone 2 is not going to come out for another 2 years at least. Judging by the screenshots we saw at E3 a while back before the PS3 came out, compared to what we actually have now, I am going to call bullshit on any pictures or videos you have seen. What you saw were probably pre rendered scenes, not in game footage, everyone that has witnessed Sony's antics, knows what I am talking about.

The PS3 still does technically have the advantage in raw power, but Devs have yet to harness it. And they have little reason to do so, the 360 has a much higher attach rate, and a larger user base. Just as with the PS2 and xbox (sitation reversed), crossplatform games are made for the 360, ported over to the PS3. At the very minimum games like GTA are developped at the same time, but I have yet to see a game in which the PS3 was the main focus. Larger userbase = more people to sell too, its not hard to figure out.

The PS3 being released after the 360 is going to hinder the PS3 for a while. Crossplatform games are not going to take advantage of the extra power, which leaves exclusive third party developers, which these days seem to be a dying breed.
I guess the 2 in house PS3 games that come out a year will have to do ;) Hardly a reason to buy a console though..


RE: Let's drill down the list, shall we?
By aeroxander on 5/13/2008 4:08:16 PM , Rating: 2
ummm, not sure where your getting your facts, but last I checked was that KZ2 was coming out next year, and the images that they showed and video was in game video not pre rendered.


By omnicronx on 5/13/2008 4:21:23 PM , Rating: 2
Ooops, guess its not 2 years, Feb2009 (although I really doubt they will make that date as it keeps getting pushed back).. but that still does not change the fact they released a bunch of pre rendered videos, called it real and now they have to produce what they said they would..
quote:
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/807/807749p1.html

If you can show me a video from a site like IGN, my mind will change, until then killzone 2 is nothing more than a bunch of pre rendered videos.

quote:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/33690.html?type...

Even their newest trailer is all pre rendered, go look it up anywhere..

Just compare this photo to the videos that they originally released, it looks nowhere close, and much less impressive than everyone once thought.

http://www.gameguru.in/images/gears-of-war-2-resis...


RE: Let's drill down the list, shall we?
By Digimonkey on 5/13/2008 12:13:42 PM , Rating: 3
Where are the achievements?
quote:
With Home, last I heard... and I can only imagine the gamerscore whoring that will commence. It annoys me with the 360, and will annoy me with the PS3.

Home's not out. Alot of gamers who beat games regularly like a bit of a challenge. These challenges usually come in the form of a score or time to beat.

How come Blu-ray did not result in better games?
quote:
Because it's a thin piece of plastic. Last I checked, thin pieces of plastic don't code games. That being said, it looks like Hideo Kojima is making the most out of the format with MGS4, and other PS3-specific developers will undoubtedly do the same in the future.

You know what he meant hopefully. It doesn't seem like the PS3 games on blu-ray so far need any more space than a DVD offers. Seriously if you need more space than a DVD for a game you can always just use another DVD. 2 DVDs would be cheaper than a blu-ray disk. Sure there is the hassle of switching it out, but I remember PS games coming with up to 5 discs, and nobody complained that much.

What happened with Sixaxis and rumble?
quote:
Fixed with DualShock3, but the initial concern was that Sony didn't want to pay royalties to, ta dah... Microsoft.

We all know Sony loves charging royalties, but not paying them. We all know that, but Immersion held the patent for rumble. Not Mircosoft.

Where is the complete 1080p game library we were promised?
quote:
Depends on the developers. And, with Microsoft incentivizing developers to make the 360 their lead platform, most multiplatform games remain at only 720p on the PS3. However, the vast majority of Sony's first-party titles are capable of 1080p, which, obviously, you can't say for the 360.

Last I checked there were about 40 xbox 360 titles that did 1080p. Almost all of them at least do 1080i, which can be done using component video connections. Most of sony's games are still only 720p though.


RE: Let's drill down the list, shall we?
By killerroach on 5/13/2008 3:58:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You know what he meant hopefully. It doesn't seem like the PS3 games on blu-ray so far need any more space than a DVD offers. Seriously if you need more space than a DVD for a game you can always just use another DVD. 2 DVDs would be cheaper than a blu-ray disk. Sure there is the hassle of switching it out, but I remember PS games coming with up to 5 discs, and nobody complained that much.


Except for Riven, which was referred to as a mess due to its needing to swap discs. Also, when given the choice of multiple discs or one, one is usually preferred...

As for cost, I remember when a single DVD cost as much as 50 CD-R discs. Does that mean we should have never used DVDs? The adoption of them in the movie and gaming space is what helped them become ubiquitous, and as cheap as they are today.

quote:
We all know Sony loves charging royalties, but not paying them. We all know that, but Immersion held the patent for rumble. Not Mircosoft.


When Microsoft settled with Immersion, they had them sign a contract that said that Microsoft would get a cut of any settlement that Immersion made with Sony. Look it up.

quote:
Alot of gamers who beat games regularly like a bit of a challenge. These challenges usually come in the form of a score or time to beat.


And what, pray tell, does this have to do with the bloody console? That's purely a software issue... if a PS3 game wanted to have achievements, they can have them (in fact, some do). The only thing different about the 360 is that they're linked into your Xbox Live gamertag so that you can have a bigger e-peen about how many points you racked up because you rented Avatar and King Kong over the weekend.

It's okay to be a fanboy; but for Microsoft to be making these sorts of arguments with a console that, for all its merits, they effectively shoved out the door, it's just kinda silly.

Meanwhile, somewhere in Osaka, the board of directors of Nintendo just grin and count their oil company-sized profits.


By Digimonkey on 5/14/2008 9:16:26 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Except for Riven, which was referred to as a mess due to its needing to swap discs. Also, when given the choice of multiple discs or one, one is usually preferred..

As for cost, I remember when a single DVD cost as much as 50 CD-R discs. Does that mean we should have never used DVDs? The adoption of them in the movie and gaming space is what helped them become ubiquitous, and as cheap as they are today.

I'm for more space and only one disc. That's an ideal situation and I'm not arguing there. Microsoft didn't really have the option of going with Blu-ray(Sony had enough problems with producing parts over a year after the 360 came out), and adding a HD-drive would've just raised the cost.

The 360 has had a ton of great looking games to play even though it choose the DVD format. I haven't heard of any problems with the limited 9 Gigs of space so far from Devs. If you go over 9 Gigs it just means you have a huge game, or alot of pre-rendered movies. Which could be easily remedied with a secondary DVD.

You may want to say Blu-ray allows for better textures/models, but that's not really true. Texture sizes and polygon counts are limited by the engine, which is in turn limited by the GPU hardware. I think we are more limited by the GPUs this generation than by the DVD storage medium.

I believe Sony hyped Blu-ray saying it would provide better looking games knowing full well it was false. They just really wanted to push the Blu-ray technology and the PS3 was their trump. I do plan to buy a PS3 this year mainly because of the upgradeable Blu-ray player, so Sony was smart to push it in the long run.

quote:
When Microsoft settled with Immersion, they had them sign a contract that said that Microsoft would get a cut of any settlement that Immersion made with Sony. Look it up.

Microsoft settled with Immersion, who was sued at the same time Sony was being sued. Then MS bought stake in the company. Sony fought it and ended up paying more than Microsoft did, and got less in the long run. If Sony had just ponied up the cash to Immersion to begin with then no money would've went to MS.

quote:
And what, pray tell, does this have to do with the bloody console? That's purely a software issue... if a PS3 game wanted to have achievements, they can have them (in fact, some do). The only thing different about the 360 is that they're linked into your Xbox Live gamertag so that you can have a bigger e-peen about how many points you racked up because you rented Avatar and King Kong over the weekend.

Playing to beat other people's scores has always had a big place in video game history. During the big Arcade era this was what most games were about. MS is just continuing this tradition. If it bothers you so much, don't look at the leader boards.


By schwinn8 on 5/14/2008 9:29:30 AM , Rating: 2
Regarding the 1080p discussion, here's a nice list to look at: http://www.geekscribe.com/2007/12/08/microsoft-v-p...
quote:
"PS3 actually has a LOT more Native 1080p games than XBOX360, even though Microsoft would have you believe otherwise.

Guess how many XBOX 360 games are in Native 1080p? Two. Yeah. Just two (and Halo 3 isn’t one of them). PS3 has 24 titles."


By sweetsauce on 5/13/2008 12:18:28 PM , Rating: 3
What follows is what I would say if I were a PR representative for Sony and didn't try to cover my ass with more pr lies:

Where are the achievements?
Home i think, but who knows when that will ever ship. Keep hope alive?

The friends list integration across all games?
We didn't think that would be a big deal so we didn't require developers to have it. Probably a mistake but oh well.

Where is the long-promised video store?
Its coming. Were basically doing it just to keep up with microsoft since i think its pretty pointless right now.

Where are all the other products using and networking with their CELL chip?
In the HPC and medical technology space. But common sense will tell you a simple P4 chip and a simple newer graphics card can handle doing HPC.

How come Blu-ray did not result in better games?
Because we hyped it that way knowing that the storage system has no relevance on the quality of games. It was one of our selling points so we kept hammering away with it so we could win the format war against HD-DVD.

What happened with Sixaxis and rumble?

Sixaxis was a failed attempt to counter nintendo's wiimote. Rumble we thought was stupid for gaming, but since people complained and all our competitors still had it, we felt obligated to reintroduce it.

Where is the complete 1080p game library we were promised?
This one can get me in to trouble, but here goes. The ps3 is capable of outputting a game at 1080p, no lie there. The thing is, my 5 year old vid card can output 1080p also. The game would look horrible since the system can't output the same quality graphics at 1080p, but it would be 1080p. So we made the decision to make better looking games that aren't running at 1080p even though we hyped up 1080p.

If Blu-ray as they said would be such a catalyst to PS3 console sales, then why have PS3 sales over the past couple months not seen any lift since the format victory?

Its because the people who were going to purchase a ps3 for blu-ray have for the most part done so already. When the price gets down in to the $200 range, and the ps3 is still considered the best blu-ray player, then you'll see a huge spike in sales. Thing is by then the next system from microsoft will probably be out and we'll be in a pickle.


Pointless Irrelevance
By psychobriggsy on 5/13/2008 9:53:57 AM , Rating: 5
Who cares, let's enjoy what we have.




RE: Pointless Irrelevance
By Hiawa23 on 5/13/2008 10:28:13 AM , Rating: 3
I enjoy both consoles, really have no interest in the Gamecube enhanced, but bought one for my 10 year old, however, alot of what the Xbox guy said I questioned myself.

Alot of the stuff Sony claimed hasn't happen, like 1080p native games, as mostly all games are 720p or lower, then upscaled to 1080p or so. Many gamers don't even know this or that games like GTA 4 on the PS3 runs at a lower res than the 360 version but is upscaled, or the fact that 90% plus of multiplatform games are better on the so called inferior 360.

Again, I am no homer for either company. I just play the games like I have every gen, but alot of what the guy says I agree with.

Sony did some crazy hyping like the PS3 was supposed to destroy the 360, & another point I agree with is, Blu Ray enabled games have not been this huge leap over DVD9 games & from what I have seen the consoles are almost even, with a slight edge going to the PS3. I mean slight edge thanks mostly due to Blu Ray & the Cell processing capabilities.

I also agree with him on Killzone 2 which is not even coming in 2008, & they will have shipped 2 Gears of War games which so far is my favorite Next Gen game.

Sony did the same as MS, which in most cases is lie, to get gamers to buy into their console. Console generally never achieve what the makers say they can do anyways, so why not just enjoy both consoles & their shortfall as I have done. All the fanboy nonsense is hilarious to me.


RE: Pointless Irrelevance
By psychobriggsy on 5/13/2008 11:04:13 AM , Rating: 2
Well both console can do 1080p games, it's just that they'll be more primitive in other ways - fewer polygons and detail for example. This is okay for games like GT5(p), but not for some other types of games.

It's a trade-off, most TVs sold today are "HD Ready" (720p, but for some reason 1366x768 LCD or 1024x768 plasma) so rendering 1080p isn't so useful. The free AA in the 360 however does make a difference. That ATI part is good.

Neither party created an ideal product this generation. The 360 has the good graphical capabilities and live! and all that, the PS3 has bluray (which is already an advantage with games like GTA4, never mind that every PS3 has a HD) and will become even more useful in the years to come (remember Sony have a ten year plan for the PS3, and they're only two years in). Microsoft had the RROD fiasco, and the HD DVD loss. However they have the best developer tools and the simpler platform to program for. Cell may allow the PS3 to be extended far beyond what people hoped for once the developers get to grips with it and create function libraries, much in the same way that the PS2 was really being stretched 5 years on.


RE: Pointless Irrelevance
By kellehair on 5/13/2008 1:19:06 PM , Rating: 1
Another ignorant Gamecube enhanced quote...

What is the 360 if not an enhanced Xbox? What advantages does the 360 have over the original Xbox? Better graphics?

From the Gamecube to the Wii Nintendo added...
-an entirely new control scheme (which has taken the world by storm and will be copied)
-built-in wifi (only available elsewhere on the $600 PS3 at the time)
-support for Gamecube controllers and accessories (wish I could have used an old dual shock with my PS3 or an old Xbox memory card with my 360)
-updated graphics (sure, not as nice as the 360 and PS3 but the Wii has roughly twice as much as horsepower as the Gamecube)

That makes the Wii quite a bit more than an enhanced Gamecube. The PS3 deserves its credit too though. Blu-Ray doesn't mean squat for games but the PS3 is a great Blu-Ray player. Couple that with the ability top run Linux and the PS3 is a very versatile console.


RE: Pointless Irrelevance
By Hiawa23 on 5/13/2008 2:01:31 PM , Rating: 2
Another ignorant Gamecube enhanced quote...

What is the 360 if not an enhanced Xbox? What advantages does the 360 have over the original Xbox? Better graphics?

From the Gamecube to the Wii Nintendo added...
-an entirely new control scheme (which has taken the world by storm and will be copied)
-built-in wifi (only available elsewhere on the $600 PS3 at the time)
-support for Gamecube controllers and accessories (wish I could have used an old dual shock with my PS3 or an old Xbox memory card with my 360)
-updated graphics (sure, not as nice as the 360 and PS3 but the Wii has roughly twice as much as horsepower as the Gamecube)

That makes the Wii quite a bit more than an enhanced Gamecube. The PS3 deserves its credit too though. Blu-Ray doesn't mean squat for games but the PS3 is a great Blu-Ray player. Couple that with the ability top run Linux and the PS3 is a very versatile console


I am beyond the years of calling other adults posts ignorant just cause they differ in opinion to mine. I said the Wii is just an enhanced Gamecube, based on all of my daughters games that I play with her on, but honestly, that may be giving it to much credit as the Wii games are really no improvement over the gamecube games.

You have to excuse me but when I go from one generation to the next, I expect the technology to improve, & by just adding a shaking controller just don't do it for me, but if that's good enough for you, God Bless.

The 360 to me is a nice improvement over the Xbox, & the PS3 compared to the PS2, which I own that too, always felt it's hardware was assy & seems like the only devs who could consistantly get good results out of it were the Sony teams & afew AAA devs, is an amazing improvement going from PS2 to PS3 if we are looking at technology.

So, like you said, I guess I will continue to be ignorant, but I did not buy a 65" & 46" HDTVs & a nice 5.1 & a 7.1 DD surround systems not to enjoy em. The wii is fine for my kid, but does nothing for my tastes & if that makes me ignorant then so be it.


RE: Pointless Irrelevance
By omnicronx on 5/13/2008 2:41:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
enhanced Gamecube
The wii is not an enhanced gamecube not because the end product look similar, the wii is an enhanced gamecube because; it runs on what is essentially an overclocked 'Gekko' PowerPC CPU, which was the CPU designed specifically for the gamecube and an overclocked 'flipper graphics core' which is in the same situation as the latter. Both the 360 and PS3 were total hardware overhauls.

The 360 switched to PPC cores and ATI GPUS (were nvidia) and the PS3 with the cell is obviously something totally new. The wii was not, although I applaud their ideas (and mariokart is damn fun), it really is nothing more than an overclocked gamecube with a fancy new controller.

In the end though, this this means nothing, the wii is spanking both consoles, and it is again expected to have higher sales than both competing consoles combined this month. Nintendo took a chance, it paid off, nough said about the wii and its lack of power, as the masses obviously do not care.


RE: Pointless Irrelevance
By Hiawa23 on 5/13/2008 3:15:05 PM , Rating: 3
In the end though, this this means nothing, the wii is spanking both consoles, and it is again expected to have higher sales than both competing consoles combined this month. Nintendo took a chance, it paid off, nough said about the wii and its lack of power, as the masses obviously do not care.

In the end it means everything to me & many other gamers who don't buy consoles based on who sells the most, or what the masses like. I own a Honda & a Misubishi & could care less which sells the most. Last gen the PS2 sold the most, but the Xbox was my favorite. The Ds sells more than the PSP, but I prefer the PSP. Point is I only go by who provides me with the software & services, & in this case the technology I want. Don't get me, wrong I own every Nintendo console since the NES, am a fan, & I am thrilled to see Nintendo back on top, & I take my hat off to em for getting back on top with the "everyone gaming," campaign, it just doesn't appeal to me, my daughter loves the Wii, & that's all that matters.


RE: Pointless Irrelevance
By omnicronx on 5/13/2008 3:47:58 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
In the end it means everything to me & many other gamers who don't buy consoles based on who sells the most, or what the masses like.
Do you really think that the Wii's sales are so high, because people saw the news story about how well it was selling on the TV? The wii sells more because it has more appeal to a broader range of users, period!. As the video game market has expended, it has slowly gone from the hardcore gamer, the average gamer, to the once in a while gamer.

Belive it or not you, (and I for that matter) are the minority, whether you like it or not. As for all of your examples, I kind of skipped past them when when I saw they all started in I.. You are only piece of the puzzle.. and probably a single child for that matter.....


RE: Pointless Irrelevance
By kellehair on 5/13/08, Rating: 0
RE: Pointless Irrelevance
By deeznuts on 5/13/2008 2:20:16 PM , Rating: 3
Funny, everything you just said shows "enhanced."

Even though I won't go so far as to call it that, you're arguments were not compelling.


RE: Pointless Irrelevance
By kellehair on 5/13/2008 3:27:16 PM , Rating: 2
Was this post directed at me? I'm not sure to what you are referring.


What about the 360's achievements?
By Belard on 5/13/08, Rating: 0
RE: What about the 360's achievements?
By FITCamaro on 5/13/2008 10:12:29 AM , Rating: 2
1) Stop quoting FUD numbers

2) HD-DVDs failure was not Microsoft's fault. It was greedy media companies making the choice "in the consumers best interest". Microsoft chose to support the format that gave the consumer the most options and was the most functionally complete. Blu-ray still isn't complete and 2.0 spec players still aren't even available.

3) For you perhaps. The only time I've ever even noticed the drive on my 360 was when playing Mass Effect.

4) It's also the cheapest HD console. Many people don't need wireless networking and such. Yes I admit the wireless adapter is expensive. As are the hard drives. Hopefully Microsoft will see the light and lower the prices to reasonable levels.

5) The HDMI spec was not complete when the 360 was launched. You can't add what isn't complete. Nor is HDMI needed.

6) Limited production runs always cost more.

7) The 360 sales have been either above or practically the same as the PS3s all year. Yes the PS3 has sold more some months. But not much more. And we're still all waiting to see the actual sales numbers for GTA IV. The PS3 is hardly stealing 360 sales though.


RE: What about the 360's achievements?
By AlphaVirus on 5/13/2008 12:13:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
1) Stop quoting FUD numbers

Not sure why people keep talking about the 33% failure rate, I don't think anybody knows the truth besides MS and I highly doubt they would release this information.
quote:
2) HD-DVDs failure was not Microsoft's fault. It was greedy media companies making the choice "in the consumers best interest".

I thought it was because Sony paid the movie studios large amounts to make them side with them.
quote:
Microsoft chose to support the format that gave the consumer the most options and was the most functionally complete. Blu-ray still isn't complete and 2.0 spec players still aren't even available.

MS went with HD-DVD because they were using DVD's in their 360. Why would they support BluRay if the PS3 already had it?
Furthermore, what do you mean by not complete? Last I checked when I put a bluray movie in the bluray player...it played! I think the term complete should only be used as meaning 'It works' and the term enhanced or something else should mean 'Its getting better'.
quote:
3) For you perhaps. The only time I've ever even noticed the drive on my 360 was when playing Mass Effect.

Yeah some games do spin louder than others. Also as I mentioned in another post my PS3 fan spins loud while playing GTA4. I am not sure if its dust or the particular game. But basically both CAN be loud.
quote:
4) It's also the cheapest HD console.

HD - Hard Drive or HD - High Definition? The hard drive included can hold a very small amount offered by the Live store, so it becomes pointless and as you mentioned the hard MS offers is way too much per GB.
quote:
5)...Nor is HDMI needed.

To each his own. Some people will use nothing less than HDMI. I'm currently fine with component cables, but I will get HDMI and compare the differences in picture quality.
quote:
7) The 360 sales have been either above or practically the same as the PS3s all year. Yes the PS3 has sold more some months. But not much more. And we're still all waiting to see the actual sales numbers for GTA IV. The PS3 is hardly stealing 360 sales though.

The PS3 has similar sales as the 360 inception but has been gaining on 360 sales. You can think otherwise but the PS3 at 12.5mil and 360 at 18.8mil is only a 6mil difference. If you count the 6 mil at a year lead that the 360 had, thats not much.


RE: What about the 360's achievements?
By wempa on 5/13/2008 1:12:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Not sure why people keep talking about the 33% failure rate, I don't think anybody knows the truth besides MS and I highly doubt they would release this information.


There were already several reports done and they all pointed to the same thing. The failure rate was anywhere between 15% and 33%. Also, from personal experience, you can figure out a rough estimate. Many people at my company own a 360 and several family members and friends do as well. About 25% of them have had to send the console back at LEAST once, sometimes more. If the number were not embarrassing, they why won't MS disclose the actual failure rate ???


By AlphaVirus on 5/13/2008 3:41:49 PM , Rating: 2
Well yeah, everyone I know have received the RROD. Most have sent out their 360 at least 1 time, some have sent back 2 times but thats about it.

I just don't like how people throw around that 33% figure when MS has never released anything closely related. We might be able to get some basis if several retail chains released information, but that will not happen.


By omnicronx on 5/13/2008 4:08:55 PM , Rating: 2
Its also known that those 15%-33% failure rates are includes consoles that were sent in more than once. I have a friend that has sent his in 5 times.. EB (who were the ones that quoted that 33%) were not counting failures a on per machine basis, but per failure basis.

Furthermore most of the failed boxes were within the first 6 months of release, its not like Microsoft is still producing 360s with a 30% failure rate. I am sure it is a much more respectable number now, especially with the 65nm processor. My guess, under 10%..

what I want to know is what the PS3 failure rates are.. its not the 1% Sony has claimed, my friend who works for purilator, (the carrier that sends the returned ps3's in canada) have around 1 PS3 come in for every 3-4 360's, most of which are apparently the 40g models. Considering most of these PS3s being returned are new, it really makes you wonder..

Mine died.. which pisses me off because I have a march 06 360 and it hasnt died yet..


By Belard on 5/13/2008 2:47:26 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
1) Stop quoting FUD numbers Not sure why people keep talking about the 33% failure rate, I don't think anybody knows the truth besides MS and I highly doubt they would release this information.


That up to 33% rate is sources from here and various Game stores. Hint: They stoppped offering extended warratnies on the 360. We've seen posts from people here having 2-4 RROD 360s.... hmmm 3year warrnaty is a hint, it helped prevent massive lawsuits against the company.

quote:
2) HD-DVDs failure was not Microsoft's fault. It was greedy media companies making the choice "in the consumers best interest". I thought it was because Sony paid the movie studios large amounts to make them side with them.


HD-DVD/Toshiba paid off Parmount/Dreamworks to HALT Blu-Ray titles (Transformers, anyone?) it was a $150million dollar deal - but apparently, since HD-DVD died witin 6 months of the deal, HD-DVD didn't pay the full amount. This is a KNOWN FACT and proven with records. WB and Sony deny such a thing and if it DID happen, we'd find out. If you saw the movie release schedule in Dec07/Jan08 - support for HD-DVD was horrble compared to Blu. With the format war over, the number of titles in HiDef has exploded.

quote:
Microsoft chose to support the format that gave the consumer the most options and was the most functionally complete. Blu-ray still isn't complete and 2.0 spec players still aren't even available. MS went with HD-DVD because they were using DVD's in their 360. Why would they support BluRay if the PS3 already had it? Furthermore, what do you mean by not complete?


MS went with HD-DVD because HD-DVD uses the same API language that is used on HD-DVD. Sony uses JAVA. MS hates JAVA. Yeah, HD-DVD fans keep harping on 2.0 like as if it wasn't developed a long time ago. Hence they're marking the names "Live" and "bonus"... I could care less about internet content... I don't WANT future Blu-Ray player to have internet access.

About noise. Google noisy 360s and Noisy PS3... usually, the PS3 is very quiet. The HD-DVD for 360 is even worse.


RE: What about the 360's achievements?
By Belard on 5/13/2008 3:44:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
by FITCamaro on May 13, 2008 at 10:12 AM 1) Stop quoting FUD numbers


Not FUD numbers. These were estimates based on various sources - the companies that sell them & repair them and the huge number of people complaining about their dead 360s.
tsk tsk... in case you haven't noticed, MS hasn't refuted that high of a number.

quote:
2) HD-DVDs failure was not Microsoft's fault. It was greedy media companies making the choice "in the consumers best interest". Microsoft chose to support the format that gave... options...


Didn't say it was MS fault. They choose to market the HD-D add-on as "flexible" and giving their users a choice "over blue ray" They are full of it when they talk about "choices" when they refused to offer Blu-Ray as a choice. Proof: MS VP Jeff Bell who said "“We did make a specific choice; we did not impose technology upon our consumers. We would like choice to be our guiding principle, and it has worked for us. We're not demanding that people choose a format..." hmmm
http://www.dailytech.com/Microsoft+Still+Behind+HD...

It was in MS intrests that HD-DVD win the format war as their API (used in the 360) means that MS gets licence fees from ALL HD-DVD titles. And all companies are "greedy" $400 for Office, $200~400 for an OS thats broken? $180~200 for a 120GB HD add-on for your Xbox... when it costs $70 to buy a 120GB drive or $140 for a 320GB drive for a PS3? The format war is thankfully over. The only difference between 1.1 and 2.0 is internet connection.

quote:
3) For you perhaps (Refernce is drive noise)

I don't own either console, have bills to pay, a PC to upgrade. But a PS3 is in my future... and I know 5 other people who are buying PS3 (not based on my input). But there are plenty of 360 users posting on the net and on TG about drive noise.

quote:
4) It's also the cheapest HD console. Many people don't need wireless networking and such. Yes I admit...


Huh? Hard Drive or HiDef? Okay $50 is a drop in the bucket... and when you're comparing a 20GB HD vs a 40GB... Even when there was only the $500 / $600 PS3s, they were cheaper than Xbox360 in the end.

360pro : $350 - 20GB HD (about 1/2 full). + $90 for wireless + $50~200 for HD-DVD ADD on (First models, wireless controllers were extra). $500~650... Add the 120GB HD add-on = $680~830 console! OUCH. Add $50 for Halo green edition that is no different.

PS3 : $400 - 4-GB HD. Blu-Ray, included, wireless controllers and networking included, HDMI included. Larger Hard Drive. User replaceable in 3-5minutes with their choice of drives. Ending cost $400... or $550 with 320GB HD upgrade.

PS3 can use flash-cards for memory. MS took the more profitable Xbox memory cards that are how much? $40 for 512mb! A little bird told me that 2GB flash keys are now $10~25.

While its a bit more advanced, Microsoft charges fees for network access. Sony... free.

quote:
5) The HDMI spec was not complete when the 360 was launched. You can't add what isn't complete. Nor is HDMI needed.


Oh... so okay about the spec issues on the 360, but not the PS3? Actually, HDMI spec was complete and available on many HD-TVs before the NOV release of the xbox360. Its not like MS didn't know that HDMI was a surprise. It was a cost cutting short cut and to save them development time. How many people posts "I'm selling my xbox to get another xbox with HDMI and hopefully a cooler running unit?"

quote:
6) Limited production runs always cost more.
(Above is about the HALO edition)
I don't think theres $50 worth of pain on that unit. It should have been an actual different unit... like with a 60 or 80GB HD... that would have been something.

quote:
7) The 360 sales have been either above or practically the same as the PS3s all year.


Nope... since later half of Jan08, PS3 sales have steadly exceeded 360 sales. If the numbers hold or get higher still, Sony should sell 200,000 more PS3 this month over the Xbox360 (worldwide)... in ALL markets combined.

Actual sales numbers of GTA IV ...? need help with that?
PS3: 300,211 (Week of May 10)
360: 262,532 (Week of May 10)

World wide - May 03 2008:
360: 3,297,606
PS3: 2,597,781

Good PS3 numbers, considering that GT4 isn't selling in Japan yet.

I guess I forgot to add another Xbox360 achievement.

- 3 Year Warranty.


RE: What about the 360's achievements?
By steve1014 on 5/13/2008 4:11:36 PM , Rating: 2
you made some good points. Don't cheapen them with stupid comments like this:
quote:
Even when there was only the $500 / $600 PS3s, they were cheaper than Xbox360 in the end.


a $500 PS3 got you a system with a 20GB HDD and no wifi. But you could add a 3rd party one for anywhere from $40-$60. So now you're at $540~$560 plus a real HDD and now you're at $690-$710. And it didn't come with wireless controllers either. There were no media slots and only 2 USB ports. And a BR player when we still weren't sure who would take the format war as better technology doesn't always win(lets just remember betamax was better technology than VHS).

And thats not counting the intangibles like a game library that is approx. 1/2 of the 360 and an online service that has to be free because no one in their right mind would pay for it.

but all of this is okay because for the last year and a half Sony has been promising that their online service is going to get better.

You can't make a legitimate argument that either one is priced unreasonably anymore but the original PS3 prices were outrageous.


By Belard on 5/15/2008 5:11:08 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
a $500 PS3 got you a system with a 20GB HDD and no wifi.


You're right... I forgot it didn't have Wifi. But also, xbox consoles we're wireless either... There was a reason the 20gb model was dropped so quickly, after all. People were willing to spend $100 extra for the wireless abilities & bigger HD... more importantly, the chrome trim!!

Okay... back then, the top end Xbox was $400. It's 20GB HD tiny compared to the PS3-60... so off those numbers ONLY:

$600 = PS3 (BR/60GB HD / slots / wireless joy &net + spiderman3)

$400 = Xbox 360 (DVD / 20GB HD / wireless joy and game library) Add ons:
$120 = 120GB drive
$100 = Wireless networking
$ 30 = Card reader (if possible, should be)
$200 = HD-DVD Drive (No spidy, but King Kong kills spidy)
(No HDMI output, and a multi-wired mess. also fun loading vertical Drive)
$850 = Total.

But perhaps make $50 back by selling off old 20GB drive.


He said, she said.... we say Nintendo won.
By lewchenko74 on 5/13/2008 9:45:19 AM , Rating: 2
Both Sony and MS have made a ton of mistakes and could quite literally spend all day slinging mud at each other. And whilst this is happening of course, Nintendo are busy counting all the money they are making.

As someone said above, most serious gamers have a PS3 or a 360. Quite a few have as Wii as well. We do in our house.

At the end of the day I sold my 360 as I feared it would die from RROD or DVD drive failure, and bought a PS3. Technical failure on such a grand scale cost them 2nd place in this generation in my opinion. The PS3 is gathering such momentum in Europe, that I think it will certainly be in 2nd place to Nintendo over here. Western Europe is 400M people, and Eastern Europe is another 130M people. So thats a big market. MS may win in the US, but the world is a bigger place than the US market alone.

I do take offence at one thing the MS guy said... bloody achievements. What a waste of time and effort. I would rather they focussed on providing a free to play online platform rather than 'achievements' and gamer points for kids.




RE: He said, she said.... we say Nintendo won.
By FITCamaro on 5/13/2008 9:55:19 AM , Rating: 4
Well I think the general consensus is against you on achievements. It seems the majority of people love them. I know I do. I don't strive to achieve every single one. But to me they're added value in a game because they're something to strive for in a game while not making you go extremely out of your way to get them. Sure I'm not so anal as to play through a game 5 times so I can get them all, but in a game like Assassin's Creed, I got them all because it was fun.


RE: He said, she said.... we say Nintendo won.
By AlphaVirus on 5/13/2008 11:12:32 AM , Rating: 2
I have to agree, the achievments is a bit of a waste. Its a good concept, giving gamers a little extra to do while gaming, but sometimes it only turns into a time hog trying to achieve them all.

I know 1 friend that actually sets out time to try and find all of them and achieve all of them. He is not a hardcore gamer but for some reason he thinks he just has to get those points to increase his Gaming Points or whatever its called.

So I guess its all based on personal time and preference, some people like spending time solely on the points.


By FITCamaro on 5/13/2008 12:05:02 PM , Rating: 3
Well yeah some people take it too far. I really don't care about my gamer score. I just do them because they're fun.


By Inkjammer on 5/13/2008 2:37:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Its a good concept, giving gamers a little extra to do while gaming, but sometimes it only turns into a time hog trying to achieve them all.
To a degree.

If you really think about it, all achievements did was give Unlockables, console gaming's single biggest gimmick, visible boasting rights. Unlockables have been around since the dawn of gaming, and Achievements just evolve off of their basic premise. Instead of giving you "rewards" like Big Head Mode they give you points that do absolutely nothing. =P


By kelmon on 5/13/2008 11:35:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Technical failure on such a grand scale cost them 2nd place in this generation in my opinion


It's hard to say whether this is true or not but I will say that the poor hardware quality of the 360 was the #1 reason why I have not, and will not, buy one. This is a shame because it is otherwise an excellent product. Everyone in the Microsoft QA department, assuming such an entity exists, should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.


By Elementalism on 5/13/2008 11:49:00 AM , Rating: 2
The whole EU is about 450 million people combined. Of that Eastern Europe is just now starting to pull itself out from under decades of socialism's mismanagement.

I also suspct by the time Sony catches the 360 the next gen will be on the horizon. I question whether Sony will ever catch the 360 in software sales(where it really matters).


Xbox Manager Slams Sony
By isorfir on 5/13/2008 9:32:40 AM , Rating: 3
Of course he slammed Sony, he'd be an idiot if he didn't (and probably out of a job). I’m sure some Sony who-to-do has some choice words about xBox’s shortcomings. I wouldn't take either sides evaluation of the other's as serious. This is just a bunch of noise.




RE: Xbox Manager Slams Sony
By RogueSpear on 5/13/2008 9:41:15 AM , Rating: 2
Yea I think it would some eyebrows if he complimented Sony. I don't think it does your company or your product any favors when you go out of your way to put it down. It's almost like you're validating that it's a pretty good product by being so defensive.


How come Blu-ray did not result in better games?
By homerdog on 5/13/2008 12:57:26 PM , Rating: 2
One of the drawbacks of cross platform development is having to cater to the lowest common denominator. Given the 360's dominant position in the market, I doubt we'll really see what Blu-ray can offer until the next round of consoles.




By aeroxander on 5/13/2008 1:32:01 PM , Rating: 2
Good point, with the xbox and ps2 both were on the same medium, this time round two different medium, and so I think your right since the majority of games will be on both platforms, your not going to see developers pushing the limits of blu-ray, unless it's a game developed for the ps3 exclusive. It will be interesting to see what the few games that are exclusive turn out to be like (GT5, Killzone, MGS4)


By anonymo on 5/13/2008 2:18:49 PM , Rating: 3
When Microsoft's second console fails (as in breaks down, stops working, scratches your discs) half as much as Sony's second console did, then Sony and their completely irrational fans might have a point in all this.

Honestly, I love video games but I just can not find any point in buying a PS3. What good non-fanhyped (read:MGS4) games are out or coming out for the PS3? Nothing interests me, if I watched movies even a fraction of the amount that I play video games then I would be all over the Sony BluRay player, but for video games? Why? Warhawk, that's about it, and it's not worth it.

I think Aaron was on to something. By the time we start seeing these "graphically superior to God" video games Sony has been promising like a used car salesman the 360 will have been put to rest and Microsoft's third console will be out with 8 real cores and DDR5 memory. Yeah, glad I jumped on the bandwagon of waiting for Sony...waiting for Sony...wish I had something to listen to...like a portable tape player or something...




ok
By Totally on 5/13/2008 11:46:21 AM , Rating: 2
i find this his arguments pointless, i'm weird like that.

It's like comparing apples to oranges. Microsoft is a Software company and Sony the Hardware and their consoles reflect those aspects respectively. Sony's still working on it's applications MS has yet to begin shipping a reliable console in my opinion.




Poor Sega! (Not)
By Vayu on 5/13/2008 1:45:05 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, but Sega only have themselves to blame. Maybe the DC was superior to the PS2 when it launched, but after 3 failed consoles (Sega CD/32x/Saturn) can you really blame people for being fed up with Sega? I myself got burned on the Sega CD and 32x, so yeah, after that I was pretty much done buying Sega hardware. Sure enough, their next effort ended up failing as well. Sony at least had the momentum of the successful PS1. Sega? They had multiple failed systems. Kind of sad, but they dug their own grave, really.




I just can't believe this!!!
By Ravenlore on 5/13/2008 10:50:43 PM , Rating: 2
lets see

Xbox 360 has had huge failure numbers, Lacks a single HDD for the basic console, uses DVD9 disks, and games have not really pushed the Next gen era.

PS3 thought it has not done much better it has the possibilities of NEXT GEN games coming out for it.

PS2 beginning games: Time splitters, Unreal T, Dynasty warriors, midnight club, SSX, street fighter EX and a host of other 2000-2001 games Compare that to the last PS2 games: Naruto 3, manhunt 2, God of war 2, Burnout Dominator, and a host of other games.

Now Xbox was a better console, but there was not a lot of changes form the first games like Halo, dead or alive 3, Tony Hawlk, and other games, to games in the end of its life like Halo 2, Call of Duty3, and other games.

This is important as it applies to PS3 and Xbox360!!! As again, Xbox360 is easy to develop for and developers get lots of power from the beginning and PS3 harder to develop for and the developers take time to learn how to use its power. In addition Blu-ray allows games to do more.




Has some valid points
By Elementalism on 5/13/2008 11:08:37 AM , Rating: 1
But who cares? The Wii destroys both of these consoles hehe.

I think those big name titles will sell well. But that wont help nor make it the year of the PS3. Because while they will definately get a top spot or close to it in the monthly sales category. The other 9 spots will be filled with 360, Wii, DS, or PSP games.

And well Blu-Ray is stuck in the mud right now as well. Maybe 2009 will be the year of Sony. /shrug




Getting what you pay for
By rupaniii on 5/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: Getting what you pay for
By steve1014 on 5/13/2008 10:41:20 AM , Rating: 3
Sony released at $600, for that it better include Wifi and HDMI. Let's not pretend like Sony has done the gaming world a great service. Yeah Sony offers a free online gaming environment but it SUCKS . I'd rather pay my couple of dollars and have a gaming environment, like Live, that allows for seemless play and thousands (if not millions) of downloadable content.

Sony has dropped the ball with high pricing and low game quality. Blu-Ray games were supposed to be amazing and as of now their graphics are marginally better and have a much longer load time. When Sony picks up the ball and does all the things they promised we can then start acting like MS is the gaming devil. But as of now for your money the 360 is a better purchase because there are more games and more downloadable content to expand the use of the games you already own.

As for all the RROD issues. They were handled seemlessly and couldn't have been handled any better. Myself (and many of my friends) have had 360 from the original launch and have never experienced RROD. I did elect to move up to an Elite about 6 months ago only because I like the casing and wanted HDMI to clear up my cable situation (1 is always better than 5). Sony had its problems hence why they had to scale down to only one SKU of the PS3. At $400 the PS3 is still extremely expensive for gamers to invest in with such a limited quantity of available games and expansion content.

They both have problems as all next-gen technology will. I don't think MS really said anything that flaming about PS3, only that they failed to live up to many of their promises. If PS3 doesn't like it they should stop offering these grandiose dreams of what the PS3 environment is and just sell the console for what it is and what they can actually accomplish.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By kelmon on 5/13/2008 11:30:10 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
As for all the RROD issues. They were handled seemlessly and couldn't have been handled any better.


I'm not about to sing Sony's praises because I think your comments about the PS3 are correct, but defending the RROD fiasco? Seriously? There are 2 major problems with this:

1. It never should have managed to get into production units in the first place. How Microsoft allowed such a colossal design blunder to make it out of the labs and into people's homes is beyond me. Was there a Quality Assurance department around?

2. It takes ages to get a replacement unit and that's not acceptable. The unit is faulty and it should be replaced immediately - none of this sending it off for repairs and waiting weeks. That would have been better handling of the issue.

It's clear that the 360 has some great software but the hardware itself is just terrible. Perhaps what we need is the hybrid love-child of a 360 and PS3. Unfortunately, I expect that I'd be back on my soapbox decrying it because the games still aren't "next-gen" but rather prettier versions of the stuff I played years ago.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By steve1014 on 5/13/2008 12:28:09 PM , Rating: 3
Agreed they never should have happened but if you look at how they happened it's not that difficult to understand how they passed quality assurance. Most people who got the RROD didn't see it until about 8 month to more than 1 year after the got them.

I know of 2 people who got the RROD and both to my understanding were back in business within 2 weeks from start to finish and MS supposedly credited them with a free 3 months of live for the trouble. Not to mention a resetting warranty from the date of receipt for the new console.

I want to emphasize though I do agree that it shouldn't have happened but I will commend them for not passing the buck. It happened and they did everything they could to fix it as quickly and with minimum pain as possible. And that's better than most companies that just start blaming outsourced parts and whoever else.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By wempa on 5/13/2008 12:57:42 PM , Rating: 2
The problem is that this should have been acknowledged and handled in the very next production batch. Here we are 2 and 1/2 years later and they are only JUST NOW bringing into production a new design that will supposedly solve the issue. All of the other designs up until now (about 3 or so) have the RROD problem. The later batches might be less susceptible to it, but it's still VERY high. Any percentage of defective units above 2% or so is a bad thing. They are in the 15% to 33% range, depending on which study you believe. That's not bad ..... it's absolutely HORRIBLE.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By steve1014 on 5/13/2008 1:08:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
They are in the 15% to 33% range, depending on which study you believe. That's not bad ..... it's absolutely HORRIBLE.


It is horrible but when you count the fact that the RROD isn't a simple single coded fault it makes it a little easier to understand how it could take so long to fix.
I have buddy who does console mods and cracked into a RROD and according to him it codes out as a general hardware failure. Which sounds like by the time MS is getting it they have no idea what was going on or where the problem started.

Also I'm also really wary of statistics that are presented from various groups and land in completely different ranges. Numbers can say anything you want because they won't tell you the context they were collected under. I just don't trust either side and then move forward from my own personal experience.

They do need to fix it but in a world that not perfect and no technology is flawless I just respect the fact that they didn't pass the buck to anyone else. They met it head on. I'm glad to see they're getting it in check but honestly I hear all these people talking about it's still going on but I have yet to personally know anyone whose gotten the RROD and I have heard of that many people complaining lately.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By steve1014 on 5/13/2008 1:12:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have heard of that many people complaining lately.


OOPS! I meant:
I haven't heard of that many people complaining lately.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By mvpx02 on 5/13/2008 1:54:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Most people who got the RROD didn't see it until about 8 month to more than 1 year after the got them.


True, but thermal output is easy to measure, and anybody in the Tech industry knows that hardware that runs too hot for too long will inevitably have problems.

The primary reason the PS3 was delayed a year is because Sony wasn't satisfied with the thermal output. M$ rushed theirs to the street FULLY knowing it would have serious longevity problems.

(btw I own a 360)


RE: Getting what you pay for
By AlphaVirus on 5/13/2008 11:38:31 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Sony released at $600, for that it better include Wifi and HDMI.

You forget everything $600 includes.
b/g WiFi, HDMI, swappable SATA drive, 4 usb ports, several media card slots, slot loading disc drive, blu-ray playback, optical audio, ethernet port, touch sensitive eject and power button, and finally the ability to put another OS on it. Most people put Linux on it.

Some consider Linux a big plus, I really dont care about it. And to top it off there is a very low failure rate even with all of this equipment.

If you look at everything the PS3 offers for $600 launch price, $400 now, you are getting quite a bit.

With the 360 you must purchase a wifi adapter, you can only upgrade the HDD from MS products. My main irritant of the 360 is how you connect new remotes to it -Press this button, then press this button, then wait, then do this, bla bla bla. The PS3 has simple connect USB and your done.

quote:
At $400 the PS3 is still extremely expensive for gamers to invest in

You are a funny person because you just wrote this
quote:
But as of now for your money the 360 is a better purchase because there are more games and more downloadable content to expand the use of the games you already own.

Now let me ask you this, how much money are you willing to shell out? You purchased an original 360 and then you purchased an elite so your hardware point is pointless as you have just spent well over the PS3 costs.

Software, have you seen the amount of content on the WiiStore, 360Live and PSN? Are you honestly going to tell me that any of them has a lack of software? Sure the 360 has much more than both Wii and PS3 combined, but can you even afford everything on either? Probably not, as I am sure it would total well over a thousand dollars. (I am not saying you dont have $1,000, I am saying you would not spend that much on downloadable content, especially since the 360 cant hold that much anyways.)

quote:
I don't think MS really said anything that flaming about PS3, only that they failed to live up to many of their promises.

I will agree because I hate knowing Sony owns BMG and Sony Pictures yet fail to deliver either music or movies like MS Live. It really eludes me as to why they only have game content. They offer trailers of movies yet dont even get tv shows or movies.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By FITCamaro on 5/13/2008 12:03:26 PM , Rating: 4
Connecting a 360 controller takes about 5 seconds....

You push the connect button on the console and controller, it detects it, and assigns it to the next open player slot.

If that is too complicated for you, you probably shouldn't be using one.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By AlphaVirus on 5/13/2008 3:34:49 PM , Rating: 2
Wow more comments about the remote comment than anything else...

This is the background of why its so irritating for me.
Imagine: 30 gamers playing on 2 PS3's and 2 360's. Sometimes tournaments and sometimes just regular playing. Some people bring in their own remotes and you can't imagine the hastle some people go through trying to connect when its their turn to play.

I think we spent 5 minutes trying to sync all the new players and their remotes. I know this is partly due to battery strength and sometimes troubles with having to login and out of XBL Accounts. It still becomes annoying when it only takes 10 seconds to sync all 4 players on a PS3 using a single USB cable.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By steve1014 on 5/13/2008 3:43:39 PM , Rating: 2
so you keep one USB cable plugged in and when one person is done they cut off their controller, another plugs theirs into the USB cable to sync up real quick and you move on.

I'm sorry I just don't see the real hassle in this. Plus if you are having a 30 man tournament going on I wouldn't think that time is exactly a huge factor (at least not over a couple of minutes).


RE: Getting what you pay for
By AlphaVirus on 5/13/2008 4:10:07 PM , Rating: 2
Its more a personal complaint because they will sit there and everyone stares at the 360 while the green lights flash and then they press the button and still does not connect. Ok then the light stops blinking, now we have to press the 360 button again, and start all over.

I am not an owner of a 360, so I was unaware of plugging the usb cable in to connect. But I will smack someone in the head if they waste my time with pressing the button when all they have to do is usb it.

Oh and the time constraint I was in was because I had to leave a little early, wife needed to be picked up. We were playing CoD4 that day and it seemed like the show 24 (the clock ticking noise and time countdown), every game was timed at 10min and 150 points limit. I got there at 12pm and left early at 6pm, I was in the finals.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By steve1014 on 5/13/2008 12:18:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You forget everything $600 includes.
b/g WiFi, HDMI, swappable SATA drive, 4 usb ports, several media card slots, slot loading disc drive, blu-ray playback, optical audio, ethernet port, touch sensitive eject and power button, and finally the ability to put another OS on it. Most people put Linux on it.

Swapping drives is capable with the 360 just buy as many 120 GB HDD as you need (and they're actually easier to replace then the PS3). But how many 120GB hard drives do you need to fill up seeing as the elite already comes with one. 3 USB drives are present on the 360 (I'm not sure the one extra really means much to me) optical audio and ethernet are both also present on the 360. I feel like almost everything other than integrated wireless and Blu-ray is a gimmick on the PS3. I don't need my game console to run linux, the 360's integration to windows media center is more than enough of a computer type experience needed for most people's consoles (I would think)

but lets not forget the one big thing Sony thankfully left out: an IR receiver. So my wonderful Harmony remote wouldn't even be able to operate it. My friend had to buy this ugly little IR dongle that doesn't even grant full functionality for the BR player. It is ridiculous to believe that a machine of this "quality" would lack an IR port. This is simple 70's-80's technology that is cheap and very effective.

quote:
My main irritant of the 360 is how you connect new remotes to it -Press this button, then press this button, then wait, then do this, bla bla bla. The PS3 has simple connect USB and your done.

The way you connect a 360 controller is to hold the center button on it. IF for some reason that doesn't work you need to do the whole button nonsense but if you have USB you can just plug that in and unplug it and you're perfectly connected every time.

quote:
You purchased an original 360 and then you purchased an elite so your hardware point is pointless as you have just spent well over the PS3 costs.

You were right I am not Mr. Moneybags. that's why I sold the original 360 to get the elite. it ended up costing me about $75 for the trade up but I was willing to do it. So I still haven't reached the PS3 in cost if you count the fact that if I wanted a PS3 I would have gotten one right when they came out.

quote:
Sure the 360 has much more than both Wii and PS3 combined, but can you even afford everything on either? Probably not, as I am sure it would total well over a thousand dollars.

You give MS too much credit for being reasonable. In order to download everything your prob. looking in the 10's of thousands if not close to 100K mark.

I think we agree slightly more than our posts suggest I just think we get there for different reasons. I don't think the PS3 is by any means a waste of money now that BR has won the format war and it is the only BR player capable of receiving firmware upgrades. I just think it is a little over hyped as a gaming console. It lacks the ease of use that most people I know want out of their consoles.

And I stand firm that Greenberg didn't really flame them he just asked where all the promises are.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By afkrotch on 5/13/2008 1:58:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Swapping drives is capable with the 360 just buy as many 120 GB HDD as you need (and they're actually easier to replace then the PS3). But how many 120GB hard drives do you need to fill up seeing as the elite already comes with one.


$170 for a Xbox 120 gig or $170 for a 320 gig hdd from whoever for the PS3. Tough choice there.

quote:
but lets not forget the one big thing Sony thankfully left out: an IR receiver. So my wonderful Harmony remote wouldn't even be able to operate it. My friend had to buy this ugly little IR dongle that doesn't even grant full functionality for the BR player. It is ridiculous to believe that a machine of this "quality" would lack an IR port. This is simple 70's-80's technology that is cheap and very effective.


PS3 remote $24.

quote:
The way you connect a 360 controller is to hold the center button on it. IF for some reason that doesn't work you need to do the whole button nonsense but if you have USB you can just plug that in and unplug it and you're perfectly connected every time.


I mentioned before this isn't a big deal. Seeing as I swap my controllers between my US 360 and Japanese 360.

quote:
You were right I am not Mr. Moneybags. that's why I sold the original 360 to get the elite. it ended up costing me about $75 for the trade up but I was willing to do it. So I still haven't reached the PS3 in cost if you count the fact that if I wanted a PS3 I would have gotten one right when they came out.


So $475 for an Elite. $500 would have gotten you a 20 gig PS3. Not really a huge difference in price. The 20 gig and 60 gig's difference was the obvious hard drive size, no wifi, no card reader, and no chrome trim.

quote:
I just think it is a little over hyped as a gaming console. It lacks the ease of use that most people I know want out of their consoles.


Not really sure why you think it lacks ease of use. You take a game, pop it in, and play it. A few games will give you the option to install onto hard drive for faster loading times.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By steve1014 on 5/13/2008 3:17:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
PS3 remote $24.

Yeah but the point is that when trying to create a high tech entertainment system I don't want to have to use 50 different remotes. (okay 50 is an exaggeration but you get the point) And when I give you $500-$600 don't you think it would be fair to not make me buy unnecessary proprietary accessories. Much like you don't think its fair you have to buy the MS 360 HDD.

quote:
So $475 for an Elite. $500 would have gotten you a 20 gig PS3.

So I could either buy the best version of a good product or the worst version (with 1/6 the HDD capacity) of an arguably equal product.

quote:
The 20 gig and 60 gig's difference was the obvious hard drive size, no wifi, no card reader, and no chrome trim.

Wifi was one of the biggest selling points and if you bought a $500 PS3 I don't think there was even an option to add wifi later. (I'm not sure about this but i'm pretty sure) And with a 20GB HDD you're right back down to the regular premium 360 (20GB HDD) for $400, add the $100 wifi and you're at the $500 20GB PS3 which might not ever be able to get wifi.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By AlphaVirus on 5/13/2008 3:52:59 PM , Rating: 2
Of course drives are swappable, but you are capped with a $180 120GB HDD from MS. PS3 condones the user swappable drive and it does not void the warranty. I have heard the max GB capable is 320GB.
quote:
3 USB drives are present on the 360 (I'm not sure the one extra really means much to me)

Right now I connect 3 controllers and 1 usb camera. I would guess some people also make use of 1 port for using a keyboard/mouse setup.
quote:
I don't need my game console to run linux,

Trust me, I don't either, I have a PC already lol. But some people look at this as value.
quote:
IF for some reason that doesn't work you need to do the whole button nonsense but if you have USB you can just plug that in and unplug it and you're perfectly connected every time.

I will have to use this method more often then; none of those 360 users at the parties would do this. Most did not want to fiddle with wires and they would keep pressing those darn buttons, wasting my time.
quote:
You give MS too much credit for being reasonable. In order to download everything your prob. looking in the 10's of thousands if not close to 100K mark.

Well yeah if you download the movies, tv shows, and music content. I was only talking about gaming content since Wii and PS3 don't offer video and music content. Trying to keep the playing field fair. But none-the-less you are correct, to purchase everything you would become broke.
quote:
I think we agree slightly more than our posts suggest I just think we get there for different reasons.

Lol, I dont disagree with anything you posted, I was just pointing out everything the inital $600 got you in a PS3.
quote:
And I stand firm that Greenberg didn't really flame them he just asked where all the promises are.

Yeah and I am also mad at Sony because they own so much yet give the gamers, who spent $600 on a console, so little.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By peritusONE on 5/13/2008 12:22:43 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
My main irritant of the 360 is how you connect new remotes to it -Press this button, then press this button, then wait, then do this, bla bla bla. The PS3 has simple connect USB and your done.


What a stupid comment. Using your method of idiocy, here's my rebuttle:

"My main irritant of the PS3 is how you connect new controllers to it - Find where you stashed that short USB cable that came with the console, then plug it into the controller, then get up and plug it into the console, bla bla bla. The 360 has a simple two-button process and you're done."

Oh, and at least when I unplug my 360, I don't have to resync my controller the next time it's powered on.

I have a 360 and PS3, and I much prefer 360's implementation of syncing it's wireless controllers.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By afkrotch on 5/13/2008 1:43:26 PM , Rating: 2
Jeez, WTF is all this about? I own both 360 and PS3. It's this simple.

360 - press button on console, press button on controller
PS3 - press button on controller

Depending on the spd of the person, it takes about 5-10 seconds on either console. There's one extra step on the 360, but that doesn't matter, as you'll be going to your console to put a game in anyways.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By AlphaVirus on 5/13/2008 4:13:56 PM , Rating: 2
Well remember the PS3 remote has built in battery so to charge it you have to plug it through USB cable anyways. So I typically have 3 usb cables hanging from my PS3.

I have never experienced what you are talking about resyncing after unplugging, I have moved my PS3 around several times and have never had to re-sync.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By kelmon on 5/14/2008 3:07:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You forget everything $600 includes.
b/g WiFi, HDMI, swappable SATA drive, 4 usb ports, several media card slots, slot loading disc drive, blu-ray playback, optical audio, ethernet port, touch sensitive eject and power button, and finally the ability to put another OS on it. Most people put Linux on it.


Speaking personally, $600 is only justifiable if you actually wanted these features. Both Sony and Microsoft have failed to deliver a product that I actually wanted. What both companies have produced is a product that does MORE than what I wanted and feel that because of this I will be happy to pay more. WRONG. For example, the value to me of Blu-ray playback is precisely $0.00. I don't want a bloody media centre or the like, I just want a good games console. When the price comes below $300, then I'll be interested.

I may well be in a minority on this one but shoving more stuff in the box does not necessarily make it worth more, and both companies went out of their way to add features that I don't need. Still, at least Microsoft made some of these features optional so it is possible to buy something sensibly priced.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By robinthakur on 5/13/2008 12:37:51 PM , Rating: 2
Right, and how much have you spent on one platform with your original Xbox and your elite? Microsoft must love you. You also quantify the cost of Live as a "couple of dollars" when actually its greatly more than that and the costs mount up over the consoles' lifetime (such as it is) whereas the PS3 online environment is completely free. I don't really find it lacking, but I hardly use either and i've only ever played online once using the PS3 (Tekken DR online), never on the 360, so don't assume that everybody even uses Live.

The ongoing problem certainly is not being handled 'seamlessly', and when your Xbox fails and you need to send it off and wait weeks for a replacement reconditioned unit you might change your tune. MS bit the bullet and lost over 1 billion dealing with that fiasco and it would have lost alot more had it recalled the console and lost the console war. This was the lesser of the two evils. Mine hasn't technically RROD'ed yet but is so unreliable (which isn't covered by the extended warranty) failing to boot games roughly 33% of the time, regularly varying fan pitch and general loudness. My main pc is quieter...

I agree that Sony should be more realistic in its marketing, but I think its right to try and inspire with possibilities (as long as they are possible) otherwise you just get lots of FPS games killing off the diversity of a consoles library like on 360.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By steve1014 on 5/13/2008 12:58:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Right, and how much have you spent on one platform with your original Xbox and your elite? Microsoft must love you.


Next time before you make these ignorant posts read the one I made 20 minutes prior explaining that I sold my old console and didn't just buy 2 consoles at full price.

Secondly,
quote:
You also quantify the cost of Live as a "couple of dollars" when actually its greatly more

It's $7.99USD if you pay month to month, if you choose to pay annually you get 13 months for $49.99USD or roughly $3.85USD per month. So if approx. $4USD a month is expensive for you maybe the high end gaming consoles are what you should have.

It is not even a question in the gaming world that Live's gaming environment has been constantly and consistently ranked ahead of Sony's. Maybe you should take better care of your electronics and you won't have to worry about high pitch fans and loudness. My old 360 was 2 1/2 years old and ran like a champ. It was quiet and the only time I ever had heating issues was after one night of a 12-hour Madden marathon the some friends and I had (and by heating issue I mean the console was getting hot so I elected to turn it off). Maybe as your console started to act up you should have done the smart thing and got it warranty repaired then.

I don't assume that everyone uses Live but those who wanted an online gaming environment were drastically lead astray by Sony. And greater game libraries hurt no one expect for game developers producing shoddy games.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By AlphaVirus on 5/13/2008 4:19:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Next time before you make these ignorant posts read the one I made 20 minutes prior explaining

Sometimes people do not bother reading other posts made for the same topic, they simply read 1 post and begin the assault.
quote:
It's $7.99USD if you pay month to month, if you choose to pay annually you get 13 months for $49.99USD or roughly $3.85USD per month. So if approx. $4USD a month is expensive for you maybe the high end gaming consoles are what you should have.

I used to not understand what the monthly fees were for but I think MS having a little extra income does help with providing gamers with extra content. Perhaps this is why MS has video and music content but Sony does not.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By steve1014 on 5/13/2008 4:31:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Perhaps this is why MS has video and music content but Sony does not.


I would be willing to bet the reason that Live is so much better than Sony and has so much more available is because they charge people to use it.

I can understand how it can be annoying to some people but they give away so much free time with game purchases and any time you have any problem they just throw free Live time at you so everyone has opportunities to use it.

The reality is that it can't be cheap to keep the servers running Live up and I don't mind paying a small part of it to have the ability to use it. Not to mention most popular games have free downloadable playable demos before or right around their release so you can often avoid the blind game purchase.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By Reclaimer77 on 5/13/2008 1:07:01 PM , Rating: 2
Steve 1014, you win. You win.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By aos007 on 5/13/2008 4:48:27 PM , Rating: 2
Waiting TWO MONTHS and 4 or 5 phone calls to get my console back from repair is SEAMLESS? Lucky for Microsoft, Xbox really does have many good games so not having one is not an option if you're a gamer. But you're just a fanboy. Any REAL gamer would have both anyway.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By steve1014 on 5/13/2008 5:09:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Waiting TWO MONTHS and 4 or 5 phone calls to get my console back from repair is SEAMLESS?

I don't know what could taking yours so long when all the ones I've heard about were quick and fairly seemless maybe you get on the phone like you do on discussion boards and start calling people names so they decide to f**k with you.

quote:
But you're just a fanboy. Any REAL gamer would have both anyway.

First, read my other posts and you'll see that throughout
this entire discussion I have defended the goods and persecuted the bads of both so just be easy with all the name calling.

Secondly, not every "REAL" gamers has the money to buy 2 consoles that essentially share libraries with few exceptions. Some of us have to work (HARD) for our money. Try behaving like a grown-up and not running your mouth like 10 year old.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By Elementalism on 5/13/2008 11:11:34 AM , Rating: 2
Sony sold you High End HD gaming, Blu Ray media with Next Gen Movie playback and MASSIVE storage capability for next gen titles, particularly RPG.

A small but particularily important point.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By sweetsauce on 5/13/2008 11:44:03 AM , Rating: 1
Allow me to correct your quote for you. "Sony sold you ON THE IDEA THAT IT CAN DELIVER High End HD gaming, Blu Ray media with Next Gen Movie playback and MASSIVE storage capability for next gen titles, particularly RPG. Instead you get games that don't run at 1080p, have horribly jagged edges, and need an install to play, something that should never EVER happen in a console. Sony should be praying to whatever gods they believe in that ms doesn't wise up and start requiring a HDD in all systems for game caching.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By BansheeX on 5/13/2008 2:41:19 PM , Rating: 2
Will you shut up? PS3 owners will be playing 1080p games at the same time 360 owners are out buying 720s. System longevity is important to the PlayStation brand, and the PS3 was built with enormous potential so that devs aren't hitting a wall in their first year. And how is the PS3's HD media abilities merely an IDEA?

quote:
Sony should be praying to whatever gods they believe in that ms doesn't wise up and start requiring a HDD in all systems for game caching.


MS would have needed to wise up before launching and put an HD in all systems for it to be possible for them to wise up and require game caching in all systems.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By steve1014 on 5/13/2008 2:57:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And how is the PS3's HD media abilities merely an IDEA?


It's merely an idea because through all of their talk and promises almost none of it has come to existence yet. When they begin fulfilling all the promises they made of this great PS3 based HD centerpiece for videos, games, and community interaction; then it will stop being an idea.

As of now its just a console that can't even get game developers to produce games up to its abilities and with a subpar online gaming environment.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By cmdrdredd on 5/13/2008 6:44:52 PM , Rating: 2
Actually I can stream HD movies from my PC anywhere on my network to any room in my home wirelessly. That includes anything I record from TV on my PC. Blu-Ray movies? That's HD media right there with 1080/24 and Uncompressed PCM, Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD MA surround sound capabilities.

Subpar online? At least I'm not paying $50 a year to hear some 12 year old white kid act like he's the next 50cent. Furthermore, the PS3 is hardly into it's prime yet so you can't say developers aren't using it. In fact, many developers are really getting going on it this year.


RE: Getting what you pay for
By MRwizard on 5/14/2008 2:41:43 AM , Rating: 2
the magical word in that very first sentence is yet


RE: Getting what you pay for
By Elementalism on 5/14/2008 9:59:06 AM , Rating: 2
Sounds to me by the time 1080p games show up on the PS3 the next gen xBox will have arrived or will shortly.


How long until...
By Bender 123 on 5/13/08, Rating: -1
RE: How long until...
By LatinMessiah on 5/13/2008 4:04:53 PM , Rating: 2
Que?


RE: How long until...
By Bender 123 on 5/13/2008 4:18:09 PM , Rating: 1
If you picked the under on 5 seconds, you got the win.
And in further news: the ocean is wet, ice is cold and kids like candy.


"Google fired a shot heard 'round the world, and now a second American company has answered the call to defend the rights of the Chinese people." -- Rep. Christopher H. Smith (R-N.J.)

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