DailyTech - Xbox 360 Sales Double PS3 Sales as Sony Remains Blind to Reality

Is there a strategy here?

By Dabruuzer on 12/15/2008 9:40:05 AM , Rating: 5

I mean I can't - for the life of me - figure out what Sony is thinking here. They can't just be blind to it, and no amount of corporate arrogance can possibly overlook the pounding they are taking. No $399 (or even under that would be better for competitiveness) bundles with decent games/extra controllers or even a few Blu-Ray movies (at least not here in Canada), no price reductions = no sense.

Am I missing some obvious strategy here? The only one I can decipher is that they are purposely watching the PS3 die...

RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Chaser on 12/15/08, Rating: -1

RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Dabruuzer on 12/15/2008 9:59:03 AM , Rating: 5

See, there someone goes fanning the flames as usual.

My comment wasn't so much about hoping for a $99 price-point. It IS more about that fact that in a tightened economy, a "we're holding the line at $399" strategy is just about the dumbest thing I can think of Sony to be doing.

We have been on the fence on a PS3 purchase for a while now, but there are several facts to deal with in their pricing strategy. Firstly, it is CONSIDERABLY more than the competition. Secondly, there are no value-added bundles at the $399 or lower price-point, as there are on most Xbox deals. Thirdly, consumers in this economy have to at least FEEL that they are getting a deal, no matter how small or large it is.

We are on a pretty strict budget now, but we have some money put aside in our "Entertainment Fund" that would make a PS3 purchase possible - and the Blu-Ray is the biggest attraction to the PS3 over the Xbox for us. But we refuse to buy until Sony comes to the table and makes the value of the system - perceived or real - a better proposition in the current market reality.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By munim on 12/15/2008 10:28:35 AM , Rating: 2

They certainly do need better marketing for the product, but being an intelligent person, you shouldn't need the marketing to tell you what value you're getting. It's reliable, plays blu-rays, you don't need to buy a wireless dongle, you don't need to buy a proprietary hard disk if the need arises, and it's a hell of alot quieter. Some of these things may not matter to you, but if they do then there isn't a problem. But yeah, I guess these things need to be a part of some "in your face" marketing if they want to increase sales.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By maverick85wd on 12/15/2008 10:42:33 AM , Rating: 4

Well apparently to you it's worth $400. To me, and apparently most consumers still lacking a PS3, that's just too much.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By joemoedee on 12/15/2008 12:45:04 PM , Rating: 5

To someone that wants a BluRay player, video game console, wireless built-in, media center, free on-line... the PS3 is a tremendous value.

To someone that wants just a video game console, it's a lousy value.

As I see it, the problem Sony faces with the PS3... is the majority of the market still see it as a just video game console.

The Wii has capitalized on it being a video game console for $249 with a "fun" interface, and the majority of 360 commercials from MS focus on all the family titles.

Sony's marketing has been horrible for both of their consoles of late. I can't recall the last time I saw a PS2 commercial, nor do I remember any of the details of the last PS3 commercial I saw.

With that being said, I think Sony is still in a decent position, with the PS2 handling the low end and the PS3 handling the high end... but there's a $270 gap between the two.

If they did say, $99 and $299, the combined sales would be much more than the 360, and could seriously gain on the Wii. $399 is still just a bit too much in consumer's minds...

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Gul Westfale on 12/15/2008 1:56:57 PM , Rating: 5

i bought mine (at $399) a few months ago, and i do believe that it was a better deal than the 360 because at the time a 360+HDD+wireless cost about the same but didn't (and still doesn't) have bluray.

i do find it strange though that sony is unwilling to promote their system more; they could develop a few games that absolutely require a hard drive (and thus would be unplayable on HDD-less 360s, just to drive that point home); they could bundle it with a few bluray movies (or the remote control); they could even develop a "give away in a bundle" game like nintendo did with wii sports, but with an emphasis on graphics... it puzzles me that a company as large as sony simply does nothing.

that does not mean i secretly long fpor a 360, i'm happy with my PS3; after all i wanted to buy a console, not a marketing campaign. a lower price wouldn't have hurt though...

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By joemoedee on 12/16/2008 10:41:51 AM , Rating: 3

quote:
it puzzles me that a company as large as sony simply does nothing.

Exactly! It almost seems as though Sony is approaching this generation like Nintendo did when the first Playstation came out. Nintendo felt that because they were Nintendo, and had such success with the NES and SNES, that the same would follow with the N64. Now, I don't feel that the N64 was a failure, but it paled in comparison with what Sony did with the PS1. Nor do I feel that the PS3 itself is a failure, either. Time will tell how it all pans out.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By MrPoletski on 12/22/2008 12:03:51 PM , Rating: 2

somebody should ask the question of why it is so much more expensive to produce the PS3.

It has to be the Cell chip, haven't they done a die shrink yet? perhaps yields are bad, but as far as I can see, hardware wise that's the only thing that cost cost so much more.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By jabber on 12/16/2008 7:44:28 AM , Rating: 2

I'm staggered at what Sony is up to.

Here in the UK 360/Wii adverts appear to outnumber PS3 adverts 10 to 1. Even the electrical stores are heavily showing the 360 but the PS3 is hidden in the back of shot or not shown at all.

The only PS3 adverts I've seen are for Little Big Planet and that hardly looks like a hardcore gamer title. The other is for a wrestling game (wow) but that just says 'Playstation' at the end so is it for the PS2?

Plus where is the killer title for the PS3? What happend to Grand Turismo? Never seen such a PS Lite Xmas.

One good bit of news, after two years I now know someone with a PS3! A mate of mine called me to say he got it for his birthday. He was really excited till I reminded him we all had 360's so he wouldnt be playing online with us over xmas. Bless him!

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By BansheeX on 12/15/2008 11:58:24 AM , Rating: 4

While it would have been a good idea to cut to $349 and come up with better bundles, it's worth looking at the aggregate trend rather than the ones 360 fansites like Anandtech are looking at and discarding all objectivity to call Sony "blind."

TOTAL SALES TO DATE:
360 (nov2005-now) - 23 million (7.8m per year average)
PS3 (nov2006-now) - 17 million (8.5m per year average)

How to really spot when a console is "dying"

TOTAL SALES DURING LIFESPAN
PS2 (mar2000-now) - 140 million (15.6m per year average)
XBOX1 (mar2001-2006) - 24 million (4.8m per year average)

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By inperfectdarkness on 12/15/2008 1:02:41 PM , Rating: 2

http://www.forbes.com/2008/11/28/nintendo-wii-wii2...

"Nintendo also sells 60% of Wii games itself, compared with 30% for Microsoft and 15% for Sony. Wii users are expected to buy the most games this year, 220 million, compared with 120 million PS3 games and 125 million for the Xbox 360. "

so even with the attach rate xbox can boast--it's likely that nintendo makes equivelant profit. that's because there's more systems, and nintendo's making a larger % of the profit.

i found this information very interesting...

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By joemoedee on 12/16/2008 10:47:34 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
TOTAL SALES TO DATE:
360 (nov2005-now) - 23 million (7.8m per year average)
PS3 (nov2006-now) - 17 million (8.5m per year average)

The PS3 should have a higher average per year, based upon brand loyalty alone. The thing is, that number, theoretically, should be much higher, based upon the installed base of the PS1 and PS2.

The other part you have to consider is how much the 360 is going to jump up after this holiday season is done. That will effect those aforementioned numbers a good bit.

Based upon track record, I don't count Sony out for a second. The PS3 is a solid console, with some great features neither the Wii nor 360 have. However we're two years into this cycle, and it's not trending as any of us really expected.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By someguy123 on 12/15/08, Rating: 0

By someguy123 on 12/15/2008 1:37:57 PM , Rating: 0

this is the issue most people have, that they don't feel the ps3 is a good value for gaming. but that is not a fault of the company, that is something you're looking for personally. sure you could say they would get "my sale" with a gimped product, but that's obviously not what they're trying to distribute. would Ferrari start to produce cheap alternatives to boost sales? no, they want a certain quality associated with their product. ferrari is doing fine, and technically the ps3 is doing fine as well, with more sales per year than the 360. yeah, it is doing terribly compared to last year at this time, but what company wouldn't spin this? no investor wants to see bad press, especially when this current press is more about the abundance of 360 sales rather than the poor sales of the ps3. the ps3 is and always has been a media center. the main reason this was done was to push bluray forward, and it has done it's job and killed of HD-DVD.

Obviously this is not necessarily seen as valuable to people who only seek to use the console for gaming and video purposes, the console is definitely worth the cost IF you use the features. if you're going to just say "well it costs a lot I just want bluray and games" that has nothing to do with the product itself, again it is just something YOU wish to have so that you can get a specific value out of the system.

you need to understand, though, that if they were to make another gimped version of the ps3 they would need to create another manufacturing line without all the extra features, or divert the current line. adding another production line would increase cost of production at least initially, and may end up not reducing cost of the console very much. not only that, this would definitely take a majority of the sales away from the main console, further reducing profits.

the problem is microsoft is not looking at it's console currently as a regular business would. instead, they're being m$ -- They're attempting to destroy the competition by providing a similar product at an impossible price point to match. $199 is not a viable price point for a company looking to make profit, but it is possible for microsoft because they have more than enough foundation to maintain the loss of profit (or possible profit) per console. Sony does not have the funds to play this dollar game, especially after going WAY over budget initially in their games division and with all their other divisions doing less than spectacular.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By MrPoletski on 12/22/2008 12:01:01 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
It IS more about that fact that in a tightened economy, a "we're holding the line at $399" strategy is just about the dumbest thing I can think of Sony to be doing.

Especially as console makers generally sell the consoles at a loss anyway (usually on launch, with cheaper manufacturing later diminishing this deficit). The money for console is made on the games.

TBH, that is a more meaningful way to guage the consoles success.

something tells me that wouldn't change the leaderboard though.

Now I hate everything Nintendo - but I understand it (the WII) is a wide platform that a very large number of people can get into. It's cheap and it's different, with it's controllers that (to me are really just a gimmick) look so cool to a lot of people, particularly young kids. Add to that a system that encourages multiple players, is simple, so it gets the whole family into it.

well you've got no wonders from me as to why nintendo are leaders of the pack.

hell, they've only been in this business longer than I've been alive (im 28).

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By omnicronx on 12/15/2008 10:39:54 AM , Rating: 5

Are you joking? PS3 sales are becoming stagnant during the best sales period of the year, the price is obviously too high. If you were a parent buying their kid a console for Christmas which one would you buy? The 199$ console or the 399$ console, both of which play pretty much the same games. Hard drive aside, the 199 dollar pricepoint is just too hard to ignore.

What makes matters worse is the Ps3 is no longer the cheapest BD player either, which is one of the main reasons sales for the past year have been so high.(well higher than before)

Games are also an issue with the PS3, the only game I have bought for it in the last year is Resistance. Sports games are just more fun on the 360, especially with xbox live.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Suntan on 12/15/2008 3:47:02 PM , Rating: 4

quote:
What makes matters worse is the Ps3 is no longer the cheapest BD player either,

True, but it is one of the best. Add to that it is the cheapest of the “capable” players and it is quite a good value for someone looking to utilize it as a quality bluray player.

In any case, Sony thinks their shareholders are best served by keeping the price where it is. If anyone here is a (substantial) shareholder, I guess you have the right to call them up and demand an explination. If you are just a person that wants to see the price lower so you can finally buy one, that isn’t really a good reason to complain.

-Suntan

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By DrKlahn on 12/15/2008 5:33:03 PM , Rating: 3

quote:
Add to that it is the cheapest of the “capable” players and it is quite a good value for someone looking to utilize it as a quality bluray player.

Not true. Both the Panasonic BD35 and Sony's own S350 can be found for much less than $399 and are just as capable. The Panasonic has had deal buster sales for as low as $150.

Anyone running the numbers can see that the whole PS3 as a Blu Ray player gambit has been a failure. Looking at the standalone player numbers and the PS3 numbers when compared to movie sales shows a clear picture of how many people are using a PS3 as a Blu Ray player. For example, the bestseller on BD has been The Dark Knight with about 750,000 units sold in the first week. There are almost 2.5 million stand alone players whose sole purpose is to play movies. Factor that with the PS3's units sold and it's clear that elevated price that came with making the PS3 a BD player was not worth it.

The PS2 as a DVD player was a no brainer. DVD works with any SD set. How many homes have an HD set? Multiple HD sets? And how many homes have an HD set they are willing to allow a gaming console to monopolize a fair amount of the time. The main demographic that is really going to get the full utility of this is a single person with the disposable income and desire to watch HD movies and play games. Most kids don't have an HD set in their room (yet).

This isn't a Blu Ray bash. I have 2 players in my household. But I never seriously considered the PS3 because I have little interest in console gaming, I want an IR capable player to integrate with my all in one remote, and I require analog outputs for decoding of the new audio formats (my pre amp lacks HDMI).

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By BansheeX on 12/16/2008 12:03:53 AM , Rating: 1

quote:
Factor that with the PS3's units sold and it's clear that elevated price that came with making the PS3 a BD player was not worth it.

It may not have been worth it to Sony, but it was worth it to me, the consumer. Why? Because blu-ray for games is awesome. The discs are the most scratch resistant I've ever used, and the higher data density = lower spin speed = quieter drive operation while playing.

I'm glad you think improved sales from having a cheap last-gen lawnmower drive makes your console experience better. Way to buy something for utterly the wrong reason.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By DrKlahn on 12/16/2008 11:05:56 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
I'm glad you think improved sales from having a cheap last-gen lawnmower drive makes your console experience better. Way to buy something for utterly the wrong reason.

You must have missed the part where I said I have little interest in console gaming. I haven't bought either console.

I'm not debating that Blu Ray may have merits as the media for the PS3. But the reality is that the percentage of PS3's being used a movie player has to be extremely low and Blu Ray's inclusion in the console has kept it's price to high for the consumer to bite. To me that is a failed gambit.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By jrb531 on 12/19/2008 9:39:39 AM , Rating: 2

And the load time is very poor so there... the 360 has less room but loads faster. The PS3 has to rely on pre-loading part of it's games to the hard drive just to get an acceptable load time.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By ShammGod126 on 12/19/2008 10:06:25 AM , Rating: 2

DrKlahn pretty much hit the nail on the head here. The key demographic for the PS3 is a single person with a lot of disposable income. Unfortunately for Sony that is not a majority of households in America or any other region for that matter. From a business and marketing perspective Sony has not done enough to differentiate themselves in a high saturated market. To a tech savvy individual the PS3 is an awesome choice but to an average citizen on a tight budget it just in not an attractive product.

The book "Blue Ocean Strategy" has great chapter on how Nintendo revitalized their business model this generation. They really capitalized on an untapped market.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By joemoedee on 12/16/2008 10:50:56 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
True, but it is one of the best. Add to that it is the cheapest of the “capable” players and it is quite a good value for someone looking to utilize it as a quality bluray player.

I'd say 75% of the folks that will eventually buy a BluRay player won't care about the quality of it. Look at DVD players. How many $20 DVD players get shuffled out the door? Right now, BluRay is more of a niche product.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Elementalism on 12/16/2008 9:03:55 AM , Rating: 2

Sony has lost an estimated 5 billion pushing the PS3 and BluRay. For this they have managed to come in dead last in the console war and win a meaningless market(HD Media).

A good price is one that competes with the competition that is offering a product similar enough to yours. Sony isnt doing that and they got smacked down by Microsoft in November.

What the article didnt mention is sales are off in November for Sony by 30% compared to Nov 2007.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Dreifort on 12/15/08, Rating: -1

RE: Is there a strategy here?

By omnicronx on 12/15/2008 10:42:16 AM , Rating: 3

Saying the ps3 has better game choices than either of the other two consoles is laughable at best.

Marketshare is everything, if people are not buying the hardware, they probably are not buying the software. Attach rates show this and are higher on the the 360 and Wii, with the 360 almost doubling the PS3 in software sales.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By bplewis24 on 12/15/08, Rating: -1

RE: Is there a strategy here?

By ThePooBurner on 12/15/2008 11:14:44 AM , Rating: 2

[quote]Calling that statement laughable shows how ignorant and blind people can be to reality when their sites of choice report pure bull over and over again.[/quote]

This shows how blind *you* are to reality. A normal person isn't going to scower for games for a system. They are going to look in the sources you mention and find that thre is a butt load of games for the other consoles and not much about stuff for the PS3. Therefore, the normal joe who is doing the buying is going to opt for something other than the PS3. Perceived reality > reality because it often causes reality to conform to it when dealing with products such as this.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By kellehair on 12/15/2008 12:14:45 PM , Rating: 1

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/937/937162p1.html

IGN AU picked PS3 as having the best exclusive games this year. You or I may not agree but it's no longer "laughable" to say the PS3 has good game choices.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Dreifort on 12/15/2008 12:26:18 PM , Rating: 1

omnicrox doesn't use facts - at least when he is critizing my remarks. I like to point out facts, but apparently fanboys don't care about facts and want to suppress anything that doesn't support their ideology.

I don't care if PS3 or Xbox is the best. I want to buy a 360 or a PS3, I researched for myself and determined the PS3 has more to offer in games, quality and performance. I like the cheaper Xbox pricing, but Sony has the games and features I want.

Same can be said for Apple buyers, while some may be Apple fanboys, most ppl will pay more for something they want. Sony realizes that. So does Xbox - THAT IS why Xbox lowered their pricing. To get a share of Sony's marketshare in console gaming.

But again -- research doesn't mean much to some ppl. I respect omnicrox preference for Xbox, but don't get mad when I state reasons to questions.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By omnicronx on 12/15/2008 12:44:59 PM , Rating: 4

quote:
omnicrox doesn't use facts - at least when he is critizing my remarks.

Fact Xbox 360 attach rate: 8.1
Fact PS3 attach rate: 4.6

PS3's sold: 18 million
Xbox 360's sold: 25 million

More 360's being on the market does not offset their higher attach rate (which is almost double) so where are these sales comming from if there are not more 360 games available? Perhaps they are not to your liking, but you are the one not using facts and basing everything on personal preference.

Now which part of your post is based on fact again?

P.S I own all 3 consoles, you don't, who is more likely to have a bias opinion?

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Dreifort on 12/15/2008 3:12:06 PM , Rating: 1

the Xbox sales figures came from Wikipedia (they are always correct on their info) and Wiki got their data from [sic note 24]?

xboxfanboy.com

how ironic.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Dreifort on 12/15/2008 3:26:56 PM , Rating: 3

oops sorry, it was xbox360fanboy.com

quote:
24. ^ Dustin Burg (2008-11-25). "Xbox 360 install base at 25 million, outsells original". xbox360fanboy.com. Retrieved on 2008-11-26.

...from Wikipedia. Where every lazy person goes to find "the truth".

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By omnicronx on 12/15/2008 3:34:36 PM , Rating: 2

How many times must I make you look stupid?

VGCHARTZ.COM

Wii- 40.48M
Xbox 360- 24.86M
Playstation 3- 17.88M

This is the most well known site for this information on the net.

Best part is the xbox360fanboy site is also correct haha.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By omnicronx on 12/15/2008 3:27:04 PM , Rating: 2

Sales come from http://vgchartz.com/ and attach rate is the latest data available through many sites. (and is pretty much well known, at least I thought it was...)

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?st... : 8.1

http://www.pcworld.com/article/153419/article.html... : 7.6 while discounting first year of 360 game sales, 8.1 including all 360 software sales

Even Ps3fanboy.com puts the 360 at 7.6 vs 4.6
http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/04/25/npd-releases-h...

I hope you enjoyed making a fool of yourself.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Dreifort on 12/15/2008 3:59:38 PM , Rating: 2

im not making a fool of myself, I have already proven that Sony (JUST LIKE Apple) does not want to lower their price JUST TO get sales #s.

They realize, like Apple, that ppl will pay good $$ for quality products (even if like Apple they may be overhyped).

Why should Sony slash it's prices (when their machines offer more features and better games) just to fluff their sales numbers?

It's not about who sells the most - it's about quality and performance. And Microsoft has cleary had issues with both.

I only pt'd out the sales #s reference to the fanboy site as the irony of Xbox fans saying quanity replaces quality. no it doesn't.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By omnicronx on 12/15/2008 4:33:36 PM , Rating: 2

Are we going in circles now? First you say that my comments are wrong and backed by nothing, then I show you the proof, and you call me a fanboy, then I once again show you proof and we are back where we started..

I have already stated why Marketshare does matter. More consoles in homes means more people buying software for those consoles which in turn results in a higher profit. Until the PS3 went down to the 45nm process they were losing money off each console sold, they have only recently started to make money off console sales. If you are somehow trying to imply that Sony is coming anywhere close to the profits that MS is now raking in on software sales you are indeed wrong again.

For reference in November Microsoft generated 408 million in software sales. Meanwhile software sales for the PS3, PS2, and PSP combined was 352 million.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?st...
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/over-3-5-mil...

Now if you can't realize that 408m (360) > 352m (entire PS line) then I don't think there is anything else I can say to you.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By omnicronx on 12/15/2008 4:57:37 PM , Rating: 2

Also just a little tidbit of information, even with Microsoft having one of its bests hardware sales months ever (if not ever) at 800k, they still managed to keep the same attach rate of 8.1 . This means that software sales this past month must have been pretty good.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Dreifort on 12/16/2008 1:51:38 PM , Rating: 2

marketshare means nothing.

Sony 100 units @ $399 = $39,900
Xbox 135 unites @ $299 = $40,365

Xbox has to sell 35 more units than Sony JUST to match sales income.

so for every 10 million units sold, Sony makes $1,000,000,000 more in sales revenue than Xbox. So IF both companies sold same amount of consoles - Sony makes a billion more in revenue. Now you see why Microsoft can have a larger marketshare and still not be slamming Sony in sales REVENUE.

Just becuase you buy 100 packs of kool-aid and I buy a 5th of Beam...doesn't me kool-aid has the best sales revenue due to marketshare. Even if you drink the kool-aid.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By joemoedee on 12/16/2008 6:13:40 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
marketshare means nothing.
Sony 100 units @ $399 = $39,900
Xbox 135 unites @ $299 = $40,365

True for revenue, but profit margin sways net income into MS's favor.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By jrb531 on 12/19/2008 9:51:41 AM , Rating: 2

The only people who pay double (or more) for Apples are blind idiots who are caught up in their own self worth and feel that they are in some form of elite special club.

They "want" to pay more because they feel that more "always" equates to better or that others will see them as more than they are. The same goes for people who buy cars that cost far more than they need only because they worry about what the neighbors will think if they did not drive a $30k+ vehicle.

Just because you "can" does not mean you always should. In the case of the PS3 this is what Sony has always tried to do... you pay more for any Sony product because of the snob factor. Sony actually feels that you need to be worthy of their products :)

Well Sony can kiss my backside with all their greedy crap. As long as Blu Ray discs (which only cost about a buck more to produce) are a total ripoff and people will still shun it as DVD's are "good enough" for most people.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By omnicronx on 12/15/2008 1:17:42 PM , Rating: 3

IGN Australia is entitled to their opinion, but this entire article is based on reviewer ratings. Looking a little deeper and this is what we see:

PS3
Buzz! Quiz TV: 0.08M
Everybody's Golf World Tour : 0.67m
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue : 2.45m
LittleBigPlanet: 1.11m
MGS4: 3.63m
MotorStorm: Pacific Rift: 0.35m
Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm: 0.31m
Resistance 2: 0.72m (Amazing game BTW)
SingStar Vol. 2: 0.08M
Siren Blood Curse : 0.09m
Valkyria Chronicles: 0.25m

total:10.46 with 11 exclusives

XBOX 360
Banjo-Kazooie: 3.65m
Fable II: 1.90m
Gears of War 2: 3.20m
Lost Odyssey: 0.81m
Naruto: The Broken Bond : 0.5m
Ninja Gaiden II: 0.82m
Tales of Vesperia : 0.27m
Viva Pinata: Trouble in Paradise 0.26m

total:11.4m sales with 8 exclusives

(I do understand a few of these games just came on the market, but both consoles have games that fall into that category)

This coupled with the fact that 3rd the 360 leads the PS3 in 3rd party game sales (where the game is multiplatform) for whatever reason, paints a totally different picture.

P.S I am sure I could find other articles based on reviews that say the 360 has had the best exclusives, and another that says the Wii has the best exclusives, everyone is looking for an extra payday.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By kellehair on 12/15/2008 1:57:08 PM , Rating: 2

Sales figures often do not relate to how good a game is but that's besides the point. I was just trying to point out that the old saw about the PS3 lacking good games in no longer true.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By omnicronx on 12/15/2008 3:03:16 PM , Rating: 3

Oh I never intended to say that 360 games are better, just that there is more selection of games that are actually played by more than a few people in a niche market. I'm not a very good judge of 'what is a good game' in the first place because I mainly play sports games. Not to say I don't know a good game when I see one ;) I having nothing against the PS3, in fact the only non sports game I am playing right now is Resistance 2. I have just found that generally there are more 360 games, whether they are good or not. The PS2 used to have the same advantage, although there were many times more crappy games on the PS2 than the Xbox.

Also I have noticed that many multiplatform games are just better on 360, especially sports games. This is a direct result of games being ported from 360 to PS3. Madden and NHL 08 for example only ran at 30FPS on the PS3 for no other reason than the 360 had a bigger base market.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By jrb531 on 12/19/2008 10:02:39 AM , Rating: 2

This has more to do with the fact that the 360 has a better graphics chip. The PS3 may have a far faster CPU but the most important factor seems to be in the 360's favor...

The 360 is far easier to program for and has a faster GPU with more available memory.

A game is only as fast as the slowest part and the PS3's cpu is left spinning it's wheels while it waits for it's GPU and this is a real problem.

This is why many sports games run at twice the fps on the 360 vs the PS3.

Add to this the slow load time of the PS3 Blu-Ray - sure it has more space but it loads much slower.

So the "perception" that the PS3 is better because it cost more is a joke.... The PS3 costs more because of one reason (two if you count Sony not wanting to lower the price) and one reason alone... the Blu-Ray player.

So as it was said before... if you want a Blu-Ray player "and" a game machine then the PS3 is a great deal.

Just want a blu-ray player?
Just want a game machine?

In this case the PS3 is an utter rip off because if you just want a game machine you do not need the added expense of a blu-ray player.

Just want a blu-ray player and you do not need the expense of a game system.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By jconan on 12/15/2008 8:11:33 PM , Rating: 3

What the sales figure don't say are how many of those are from packaged bundles versus how many those that are purchased by consumers themselves. I see a quite a few game packages out there that are sold along with the console. Some of those games don't seem interesting to me imho but maybe for others however makes the console a bargain like the 360 combo @ costco and target(no gow2): kung fu panda, lego indi jones, and gow 2 (at least good compared to others); vs ps3 bundle with drakes fortune.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By MonkeyPaw on 12/15/2008 11:29:27 AM , Rating: 3

quote:
Sony would probably increase their sales if they lowered their price. But if ppl are already buying the PS3 at $399 (because of slightly better platform and game choices), then why lower the price? To brag about short term market share?

That's the thing, not enough "ppl" are buying PS3s. It's not about bragging about share, it's about selling consoles so you can sell GAMES. MS and Sony make money by selling games, since they get a cut on each copy sold. Look at game sales, and you'll see PS3 versions of games are way behind the 360 version.

Sony just made something that was too expensive for most people to own, or at least something they would consider worth buying over the 360 or Wii. And while reliability is nice, you can now buy 2 360s for the price of 1 PS3. That's just ridiculous when you think about it.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By nafhan on 12/15/2008 10:18:17 AM , Rating: 3

MS actually has a much larger edge over Sony than pure console sales would suggest. The attach rate for 360 is about double that of the PS3 or Wii.

This isn't a big deal for Nintendo as they make money from software AND hardware sales, but for Sony this is a huge problem since they have been selling consoles at a loss and expecting to make the money back on software.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By mars777 on 12/15/2008 10:50:40 PM , Rating: 3

quote:
but for Sony this is a huge problem since they have been selling consoles at a loss

This is pretty untrue for months now.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Sleazell on 12/15/2008 10:48:01 AM , Rating: 2

Sony definitely has to step it up. Instead of keeping their older systems with smaller hard drives and lowering the prices they just put in larger hard drives. That wasn't necessary seeing as how you can get any hard drive and put it in the PS3 if you needed more memory. Then they dropped backwards compatibility which was a huge knock on it by the hardcore gaming crowd who was willing to spend the money on it. Lastly they refuse to talk to netflix about adding streaming. I think I heard netflix came to them first but they were focused on selling movies on PSN. They have to have more added value if they want people to buy. I know bluray is the reason for the added cost but in a tough economy people will just buy the cheap 360 and hold off and get a bluray player when the price falls. By the way before I am flamed I own a PS3. I just don't want to see it go extinct like the gamecube, dreamcast, and the do do. Less sales = less developer interest.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By BansheeX on 12/15/08, Rating: 0

By BansheeX on 12/15/2008 11:48:58 AM , Rating: 0

quote:
They have to have more added value if they want people to buy.

But value is the one thing it DOES have and the reason it still sells very well. It's the SHELF PRICE that is hurting it. Value is not price, it's what you get for the price. The 360 arcade model driving 360 sales has no blu-ray, no HD, no wireless, and netplay fees. That's why it costs $200 less on the shelf, it doesn't include anything. Not because MS is gouging themselves more than Sony.

Yes, not everyone cares about all those things, but you can't NOT include blu-ray on a system that uses it for games. You can't NOT include an HD on the PS3, the whole point of having one in every model was so developers would use it.

And let me say that this article injects way too much gloom and doom into the future of the PS3. There is absolutely no proportion here, the PS3, DESPITE its higher shelf price, is selling very well in comparison to its competitor and the numbers don't lie.

TOTAL SALES TO DATE:
360 (nov2005-now) - 23 million (7.8m per year average)
PS3 (nov2006-now) - 17 million (8.5m per year average)

Here's the race people are mistaking this one for:
TOTAL SALES DURING LIFESPAN
PS2 (mar2000-now) - 140 million (15.6m per year average)
XBOX1 (mar2001-2006) - 24 million (4.8m per year average)

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Bryf50 on 12/15/2008 12:18:13 PM , Rating: 2

I don't see any reason as to why you keeping bringing up xbox and ps2 sales. Everyone already knows the ps2 sold more then the first xbox. You're really just contradicting yourself because it was the opposite last generation. The xbox had more "value" then the ps2. Clearly "value" in the definition you give it doesn't mean much to consumers.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By BansheeX on 12/15/2008 2:48:12 PM , Rating: 2

What do you mean, you don't see the reason? The reason is to give proportion to the "360 is dominating and PS3 is on the verge of death" crowd. You can make valid criticisms about the lack of a $50 cut and better bundles in an economic crisis, but the fact is that the PS3 is outpacing the 360 in sales-per-year DESPITE the much higher shelf price. That is pretty impressive.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By omnicronx on 12/15/2008 3:49:53 PM , Rating: 2

I have to agree that the sales-per-year is pretty impressive. At the same time, if the 360 continues to outpace the PS3 by 2:1 (which could happen if Sony does not lower the price), MS is going to cut into that number and possibly overtake sony very soon. In fact at current projections, it would take little more than a quarter.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By BansheeX on 12/15/2008 11:52:32 PM , Rating: 2

I am 99% certain that a 65nm GPU die shrink and $50 cut will occur in the first half of next year. It's long overdue and most speculated that it would have happened by now. In other words, expecting the current price point to remain is wishful thinking. Most likely, the yields weren't good enough to get it done before the holidays. MS barely got Jasper through the door.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By walk2k on 12/19/2008 11:14:40 PM , Rating: 2

There you go using logic. Don't you know, rabid fanbots don't care about things like Facts or Logic.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Nik00117 on 12/15/2008 3:07:58 PM , Rating: 2

I agree, sony is trying to sell on a not ethatisn't working. I mean games are so cross platform now no one's going to give a rats ass which console they get so long as it plays everything that they want. So what spend an extra 50-100 bucks to get Blu-ray? Most poeple I know don't care about blu-ray. They buy consoles to game not watch movies.

Sony needs to undercut the Xbox take the hit and own the loyalties on the games that they sell. That's where the $$$ is, in the games sell.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By Hiawa23 on 12/15/2008 3:36:01 PM , Rating: 2

Sony has made it clear they have to be responsible to their shareholders first, gamers who want them drop the price, 2nd or latter. I own both consoles & game much more on the 360 than PS3, but Sony kind of shot themselves in the foot here. The manufacturing costs are so high on the console, I am not sure Sony can afford to drop the price, even much worse considering how badly their other divisions are doing with the global recession. On top of that, Home, I really have not liked at all as it seems more like a social network than anything else right now & clearly was rushed out due to pressure. Looks like Sony can only wait it out & hope things go alittle better in 09 with some sort of price drop. To be honest the PS3 really hasn't differentiated itself from the 360 other than blu ray, & this may be the root cause of Sony's issues. If a gamer sees a $199 360 compared to a $399 or above PS3, alot will go with the cheaper HD console due to economic conditions.

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RE: Is there a strategy here?

By walk2k on 12/19/2008 11:13:00 PM , Rating: 2

Considering over 30% of those sales are RROD replacements it's not that impressive.

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I love these comparisons

By Chaser on 12/15/2008 9:35:25 AM , Rating: 2

So Stephen your point?

I really do not believe Sony's decision makers were banking on the PS3 outselling the rest. Fact is its an expensive product and not everyone feels the need to buy a blue ray player/gaming console.

The PS3 has been the tortoise and will probably always be. Not to mention the $199.00 360 is dramatically cheaper obviously and as the Wii has shown us pocket books and more wrapped Christmas presents under the tree is what drives most purchase decisions over anything else.

The PS3 is not the "gee Mom can I get one" stocking stuffer gift at Walmart. Most PS3 buyers have done their research and made those decisions and Sony knows this.

I remember over a year ago the huge disparity between the 360 lineup and the PS3. Today more and more with new release commercials you see a version for both consoles if not more. Other than a few exclusives -for both- its evolving into parity for both consoles.

RE: I love these comparisons

By Aloonatic on 12/15/2008 9:59:05 AM , Rating: 3

The "gee mom" market is a big one and the tradition heart of the console industry.

I'm guessing that you didn't buy your first console, I certainly didn't?

What percentage of the market is people buying consoles for themselves? Larger than it used to be, sure, and that was how the PlayStation managed to gain traction back in the day, but those days are long gone now and mom and dad still pay for a lot of them.

Nintendo seemed to be the only of the 3 console manufacturers who remembered the main console playing demographic, children, and they produced a machine that was affordable for patents and that didn't depend need a HDTV, and the resulting long months of being nagged to get a new HD TV fir their 360 or PS3.

Most consoles were stuck in messy bedrooms with the washing on the floor and a plate or two of food under the bed and if the kids are lucky, the old big SD TV that used to be in the living room, in the corner.

That works great with a Wii.

MS realised that the wii's pricing was where it needed to go and they have done that, to hell with the cost it seems to.

Sony are loosing ground and whilst they might be able to survive this round, as long as MS don't have another RROD like fiasco next time round a lot of people are going to be going for the xBox as their first choice.

That is great news for MS.

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RE: I love these comparisons

By The0ne on 12/15/2008 10:49:24 AM , Rating: 2

I thought I would never make this type of comments myself but good Lord I can't understand what you are saying even after re-reading it a second time.

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RE: I love these comparisons

By Aloonatic on 12/15/2008 11:04:02 AM , Rating: 2

I'm sorry that you couldn't understand my comment.

It is a bit of a mess, granted. Trying to type quickly at work is never a good idea and ended up being something of a stream of conciousness.

I'll make it easier for you, In short:

Parents buy most consoles, or at least have the majority share.

They are the people calling the purchasing shots.

Sony have let themselves get carried away with the 20 to 30 something market who buy a console for themselves based on many factors and who get carried away with arguments on sites such as these.

MS almost got sucked into this but seemed to have been able to pull themselves out of it at the last second, price wise at least.

Nintendo were the only company to remember games consoles are meant to keep your kids quiet in their bedrooms. The Wii does this well on a nice cheap SD TV that they already own.

The xBox is at least cheap but will lead to kids asking for a HD TV to go along with it.

The PS3 is the most expensive and is much better with a HD TV too.

When you add in the effect of on-line gaming, so you are much more likely to want the same console as you friends then that just makes things even better for MS.

Being the dominant seller is a great position to be in.

When it comes to the next round, the PS4/xBox720, then the xBox will be the console that everyone will be waiting for.

Hope that's a little easier to understand?

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RE: I love these comparisons

By Netscorer on 12/15/2008 5:28:01 PM , Rating: 2

Well,

I know of at least one family that recently purchased PS3 for their kid as the justification to indulge themselves with a shiny new 50 inch LCD TV. Here goes your logic...

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RE: I love these comparisons

By Aloonatic on 12/16/2008 4:13:47 AM , Rating: 2

Erm.... What?

You know one family who were able to splash out a couple of grand on a PS3 and a 50" TV?

I'll get on the phone to the boys at Wall Street. The economy is back on track, one person that someone knows can afford to blo a couple of grand on a PS3 and 50" TV for their daughter to have in her room, so everyone must be able to?

Or are the PS3 and TV in the living room perhaps? Or in a cinema room? This is the natural habitat of the PS3 now, not as a games console that can play BD. It's in danger of becoming a BD player that can play the odd game or two.

Glad you agree that it is the parents who make the purchase decision and I am ever happier to hear that the parents that you know are clearly doing well for themselves. Sadly, that is not the case for the majority of families however and they cannot afford to buy a 50" or any other size LCD TV for their kids, and if they can afford to buy one they may well be tempted to save them selves a little money and buy an xBox 360.

Unless the kid is.

a) happy to have the family pile in and watch BD movies in their room whenever they want

b) happy to have the big TV and PS3 in a spare room for everyone to watch when they feel like?

I'm assuming that they bought the 50" TV to watch movies on of course. That's about the only reason to get a PS3 over an xBox now. There's no financial reason too and home/LBP are not that great. Also, if they have that much money to burn then they'll probably buy their daughter a wii and she'll be happy playing that whilst the PS3 gathers dust, waiting for dad to come in and watch Casino Royale.

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RE: I love these comparisons

By Chaser on 12/15/2008 11:13:55 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
The "gee mom" market is a big one and the tradition heart of the console industry. I'm guessing that you didn't buy your first console, I certainly didn't?

And as stated Sony is not counting on that for a blue ray/console platform. Again its not a stocking stuff console. Sony knew this. Its amazing to me how many Monday morning quarterbacks have tried to second guess Sony's marketing strategy.

Sony is doing fine and the PS3 is alive and well. Despite worn out predictions hoping for otherwise. The PS3 total sales, in particular outside the U.S. don't lie. Just because one is selling better doesn't imply doom for less of advantage for the other. Unless of course we'd like to quote some Wii vs 360 trends over the past year.

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RE: I love these comparisons

By Aloonatic on 12/15/2008 11:48:58 AM , Rating: 2

Their marketing strategy was to not sell as many consoles on purpose?

I understand that they wanted the media hub thing and all that, but it hasn't really paid off.

Sure, it's got them the HD disk media format this time around, but I can think of only 1 person that is remotely interested in Blue Ray however and that's because they have a projector. How many households do?

So their big plan is 2 fold?

a) Selling the PS3 at a loss (in monetary terms) as a BD player/media hub.

and

b) selling the PS3 at loss (in monetary and market share terms) as a games console.

It's a gutsy move and I hope it works out for them, I really do.

I just have my PS3 and Wii now, as I sold off my xBox when the RROD stories were abound in the early days.

It seems more like that Sony miss judged the market and demand for their product however.

Pretending that you wanted it to work out this way all along is a bit weak.

The gaps in sales is only going to get bigger I'm fear.

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RE: I love these comparisons

By robinthakur on 12/15/2008 11:55:09 AM , Rating: 2

Whilst there is the undeniable temptation to predict doom with Sony's consoles, I think that the proponents of the PS3 are somewhat over-zealous of their defense.

I own one and its great. However, I very rarely play on it. I've bought LBP in the last year for it and I've owned it since near launch. LBP is quite interesting, but its hardly Super Mario Galaxy. Likewise, the rest of the lineup is quite uninvolving and there's nothing that really grabs me as exclusives like Gears of War 2. I guess the games are so expensive to produce that they are few and far between. Exclusives on the PS3 so far have mostly been heavily marketed dross (Heavenly Sword, Lair), good but not stunning (Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank) or, in only a couple of instances, great (MGS4). If all the decent games (or most of them) can also be found on the cheaper competitor's console, what do you think most people will buy? Quite alot of people have no idea what Blu ray is, I should point out, and those that do, likely have already bought a PS3.

At some point the strategy of having the most expensive console on the market at a time when the world's economy and also Sony is taking a pasting is going to hit Sony where it hurts. That might not occur this generation, but in the following one, similarly to how Nintendo was unable to make the Gamecube a success after the N64. This is the generation, when the fanboys of Sony's consoles notice that they aren't on the winning side and this will affect the brand. Sony also increasingly seems very detached from reality and arrogant in their strategy, and the games seem to take a back seat to firmware updates, pricing issues, the backwards compatibility saga and things like Home which are pretty irrelevent to most of the PS3 core fanbase. Truly though, they really can't afford a price cut, and this fact is being spun as roaring confidence in the brand.

MS are taking no prisoners with their pricing strategy this Christmas, and if nothing else, the Japanese sales figures for the PS3 make utterly dismal reading, which has got to have some bods at Sony scared for the future. All this is before MS readies their new console in the medium term. PS2 survived the same predicament due to its impressive numbers.

The PS3 does not have that advantage. Not trying to fan the doom and gloom, but I think that the PS3 has had more than enough time to make itself a success and has frustrated quite alot of people both inside the industry and consumers alike with delays and disappointment viz a viz their competitors. If I were to sum up the machine, I'd say "Its reliable, its quiet, it plays blu rays and it plays multi-format games at least as well as the nearest competition". This does not make it easy to sell bearing in mind the price.

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RE: I love these comparisons

By jojo29 on 12/15/2008 1:47:07 PM , Rating: 2

Exactly correct. But look at the bigger picture here. Sony is in this for the LONG haul. And with the economy in the state it's in, it will be a LONG haul, as bringing in a new console now is just maddness. Now bear with me, this is my theory.

Sony can't drop the price for two reasons. 1) They will lose money, and guess what is coming in a few more months/ Fiscal Years ending. Sony's i think is in March/May not sure but it's coming soon. ALL companies want good numbers for their Fiscal Years.

2). Sony is part of the Blu Ray group, and let's face it, they got screwed when the PS3 first came out, undercutting them by like $400. Now, this was probably part of the plan, and the rest of the BDA group was like cool. Now, the BLu ray players are cheap, and Sony HAS to allow them to make their profit for this year. Makes sense right? Business my friends business.

Ok now check this out. Haven't you guys noticed that Sony, despite having a lower attach rate is still making money? Why? Because Sony has HEAVILY invested $$ into their own internal development studios. They are not dealing with a middle man, meaning whatever money they make on those games ( Resistance/LBP/Motorstorm/Their sports series/etc) are pure profit for them, much like nintendo, ON TOP of the multiplatform games. Sony has had a steady stream of 1st party exclusives, more than the 360.

So i believe they are setting themselves up for next year. Yes, Sony is getting beat by the 360..NOW. It took the 360 till November to finally outsell them and makeup the loss of a WHOLE YEAR to the PS3. Which means what? That the PS3 is selling just fine. Sony just has to make it past this month and they are in the clear. How so?

Check this out. Ok 360's big guns are out and done. Banjo flopped hard and ONLY Halo 3 Fable 2 and Gears 2 saved them. Next year they have nothing but Halo franchises. Halo Wars and Halo expansion. Where are the original IPs? Maybe they have something up their sleeve but guess what? So does Sony. But they also have:

God of War 3
killzone 2
Gran Turismo
Final Fantasy 12 ( it will sell more on ps3)
Final Fantasy Versus
The new Twisted Metal Game

And those are the ones we know about. And just when SOny is about to lose steam...BAM Price drop. They are saving their Price Drop for when they needed it most. This year, the 360 needed their price drop..they were getting beat ALL year and they used it.

A price drop is like a hail mary play and the 360 used theirs already. BUT, im not some blind fanboy that wants the 360 dead. i want it there, to keep Sony on their toes

Anywhoo thats my theory on the situation. Sony is biding it's time. They are right on the heals of MS in terms of total units out DESPITE being MORE EXPENSIVE and DESPITE being behind by 10 milion units. Don't get me started on my theory for Sony's next console or even Nintendo's. Let's just say i see MS getting spanked that generation.

WHy? Wii just needs updated graphics and make their control scheme more refined and blu tooth, 1st Party catalogue, an online service Nintendo Network LIVE?,DvD/Blu Ray playback BAM instant success.<==will be a beast Sony makes money off blu ray drive.

Sony, all they need a updated Cell Processor and updated Graphics card,PSN is finally mature and still free, 1st party catalogue on par with Nintendo, manufacturing will actually be cheaper for Sony this generation as Blu ray/Cell manufacturing costs were fronted by PS3. Refined controls BAM instant success

360. Hmm NO new control scheme, and all they have to offer is updated graphics, no new IPs or no new established IPs aside from Halo/Gears/Fable, maybe push a better more refined streaming service, and it must have a Blu Ray player...Could be a success LIVE will have no more value as PSN/Nintendo service are both free and offer EXACT SAME services...MAYBE a sucess, Sony makes money off them..

Interesting times indeed...my head hurts now lol

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RE: I love these comparisons

By wempa on 12/15/2008 1:11:17 PM , Rating: 3

quote:
Nintendo seemed to be the only of the 3 console manufacturers who remembered the main console playing demographic, children, and they produced a machine that was affordable for patents and that didn't depend need a HDTV, and the resulting long months of being nagged to get a new HD TV fir their 360 or PS3.

You may want to do some research on the average age of a gamer, which is 30 years old. Last time I checked, that does not qualify as a child.

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RE: I love these comparisons

By Aloonatic on 12/15/2008 1:24:19 PM , Rating: 2

Around here, plenty of people that age who I would say were children, but that's a different matter.

I'd be pretty interested to see your research.

I just had a quick search and found something that said 23.

That's is the current research and the figures are going to be skewed quite a bit by the bonus older segment that have come along and bought the wii as it's inadvertently suited them too. All they need is a wii and away they go.

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RE: I love these comparisons

By Gzus666 on 12/15/2008 5:03:35 PM , Rating: 2

Not going to get involved in this war at all, but just out of curiosity, do you get paid by the paragraph? You have one almost every sentence it seems, rather weird.

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RE: I love these comparisons

By Aloonatic on 12/16/2008 3:21:40 AM , Rating: 2

Why thank you for asking? Seriously though, why? Any who, now that you have I may as well reply. I personally don't like big paragraphs on forums and sites like these so I try to split up the points I make to make them easier to read. I know that this site is full of geeks and such who are used to relying to sticking to rules and doing things by the book. Pointing out spelling and grammatical errors and such is something that gives them the sense of power and lets them show off a little, something that they learnt in high school or where ever as the only way to lash out and that's fine. The thing is this. This is just a web site, not an essay contest or spelling bee. It really doesn't matter. If you can understand what is being written then what the hay? I don't know about other people, but I often comment when I am at work and I have to come in and out of writing a comment before posting it as I have to go off somewhere for a while, away from my desk, without it being thoroughly proof read. If you have nothing better to do than comment on the way I have written something than make a comment about what is written I congratulate you on being such a great time manager as to be able to waste time on doing that.

Kudos.

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RE: I love these comparisons

By Gzus666 on 12/16/2008 9:29:38 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
Why thank you for asking?

It is my understanding that the question mark indicates a question, your statement seems to argue with this. It is a battle royal, who will win? Statement or Question Mark, two men enter, one man leave.

quote:
If you have nothing better to do than comment on the way I have written something than make a comment about what is written I congratulate you on being such a great time manager as to be able to waste time on doing that.

I also find it hilarious that you make this comment after writing a large paragraph complaining.

In reality though, they make paragraph rules cause they are easiest to read and make sense. I was making a snide remark in hopes you would hilariously argue and get all pissy, it would appear I have hit the jackpot.

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RE: I love these comparisons

By Aloonatic on 12/16/2008 12:19:17 PM , Rating: 2

lol

As I said, congratulations for having a lot of time on your hands.

Ahh bless.

You clearly cannot see joke when one hits you squarely in the face. You grammer and spelling nazis are too easy.

It must be reassuring to know that you aren't wasting your life away, oh wait, you clearly are. You should be out there using your massively superior intellect to save the world or something, yet you are wasting it proof reading comments on a website.

lol

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RE: I love these comparisons

By wempa on 12/16/2008 12:36:21 PM , Rating: 2

The Wii demographic did not skew the results. Before this generation of consoles were released, the average age of a gamer was 29. Now, it moved up to about 30. So, while it did edge up slightly, it wasn't caused by grandma and grandpa buying a Wii. What Nintendo did was cater to non-gamers and casual gamers. That is what made their product such a hit.

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RE: I love these comparisons

By timmiser on 12/15/2008 2:21:55 PM , Rating: 2

I agree. I think the article fails to acknowledge the fact that if you compare the total revenue figures of X360 vs. PS3 they are neck and neck but chooses to ignore that obvious fact for whatever reason?

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Are there 2m+ Wiis out there. ?

By crystal clear on 12/15/2008 10:23:06 AM , Rating: 3

November US console shipments:

Nintendo Wii: 2.04m
Nintendo DS: 1.57m
Microsoft Xbox: 836,000
Sony PSP: 421,000
Sony PlayStation 3: 378,000
Sony PlayStation 2: 206,000

It's also rather surprising that there were even 2m+ Wiis out there. The console has been supply-limited since its debut, which bears the question of whether Nintendo could have moved these numbers of units any other month.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/12/12/npd_group_...

Worth reading this-

Wii's Future In Motion

http://www.forbes.com/2008/11/28/nintendo-wii-wii2...

RE: Are there 2m+ Wiis out there. ?

By Pacman33 on 12/15/2008 11:42:30 AM , Rating: 1

Since the internet holds so much power when it comes to perception, I think it's time for Sony to bow to the will of the fanboy/internet bloggers. Although M$ is undoubtedly behind this onslaught of negative press, it's begining to affect the unknowing consumers. If I were them I would immediately pull a Bill Gates move, and release a watered down/barebones system toadvantege of the "price point" crowd. I would strip the blu-ray, Wi-fi, Hard drive and web browser and release it as an "Arcade" version for $199. Yes, it cheapens your brand, and renders the hardware virtually useless except for playing games, but hey then they'll actually be comparing apples to apples, instead of comparing a Honda to a Benz. Your sales would go through the roof instantly, as all those unknowing bargain shopping moms will grab one for lil Johnny. Sure they will be taxed for the rest of the components later in order to complete the system, but that can wait til next Christmas. I know you're probably thinking you already have an "arcade" version (the PS2) that is still selling well and is the number one selling console ever, but lets just fancy them this one time. Although this will double your sales, be prepared for fanboys to begin a new slander campaign complaining about the removal of components. Yeah, I know M$ did the exact same thing, however most fanboys thought they simply lowered the price and didn't realise they aslo lowered the value. P.S. I also suggest you cut costs on your production, it will probably increase your failure rate, but who cares about that stuff anymore. You will save costs for now, but you may have to replace millions of consoles, but you can worry about that later, after all it's not like they subtract the millions of consoles returned from your sales figures.

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RE: Are there 2m+ Wiis out there. ?

By foolsgambit11 on 12/15/2008 6:15:42 PM , Rating: 2

They can't pull Blu-Ray. It wouldn't work as an "Arcade" version if it can't play PS3 games. And you thought the outrage was crazy when they pulled PS2 backwards compatibility - image what it would be if it no longer worked with PS3 games, either.... Not even Sony fanboys are crazy enough to pay $200 for a DVD player in an airplane-wing-shaped box.

Yes, I get that your post was critiquing MS's strategy. But all it did was highlight that Sony made a bet on a specific business model and was wrong (or at least, has yet to be proven right). Of course, MS still hasn't figured out a winning strategy for the non-US market, so I'm not claiming they're some kind of business oracle, either.

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RE: Are there 2m+ Wiis out there. ?

By Pacman33 on 12/16/2008 5:24:54 PM , Rating: 2

Well, most of my post was being facetious of course. My real point was for people to honestly look at what we're comparing here. I am definately aware that if they pulled the BD, then the games wouldn't work either. I personally plan to sit back and watch this chess match unfold. I am betting on the under dog. Like I pointed out, Sony is the only one with their last gen sytems still selling well. I believe that this is how Sony will overtake this generation in the long run. I don't see M$ or Nintendo as haveing any more rounds that could make their systems sell at the same rate over the next few years. M$ is already at it's lowest price point, and like blu-ray are not, dvd makes their system outdated. Even if BD fails as a movie medium, it is here to stay as a storage medium. In other words, the next gen of games won't possibly be able to fit on a DVD. If the same holds true with the PS3, like the PS2, it was several years before the games caught up with the hardware. As far as price, M$ can't drop it much lower. All these reasons lead me to believe that M$ will have to release it's next system within the next 2 years, giving the 360 a 5 year lifecycle. At that point the PS3 will have the pricing advantage because it will be in the 3-4 year point of it's life cycle, like the xbox is in now. Plus I know the 720 will not release at a lower price than the 360 did. I have all 3 systems and the Wii was the only one that disappointed me. As a hardcore gamer, there just aren't enough titles beyond Mario. All the lil Johnnies curently playing Wii, will graduate to the hardcore game systems. Other than lowering the price to $199 then $149, I don't see what else Nintendo can do with the Wii to keep it fadish.

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RE: Are there 2m+ Wiis out there. ?

By esandrs on 12/15/2008 2:10:11 PM , Rating: 2

Thanks for posting the numbers for all the consoles. I don't know that there were 2m Wiis to sell in Nov (perhaps some stock built up over the summer?), but I think a part of Sony's strategy is the PS2 .

Sony is still selling 200k PS2's in a month! With 140m units in homes, and the hardware profits they must be making on PS2 consoles today, plus the software sales percentages of PS2 games... I imagine they aren't too worried about dominating the "current generation" PS3 market yet.

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RE: Are there 2m+ Wiis out there. ?

By omnicronx on 12/15/2008 2:12:20 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
I imagine they aren't too worried about dominating the "current generation" PS3 market yet.

The PS3 is almost halfway through its lifecycle, when is 'yet'?

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RE: Are there 2m+ Wiis out there. ?

By Pacman33 on 12/15/2008 5:25:27 PM , Rating: 2

Lol, 2 years is "half way thru it's life cycle"? The PS2 is still selling, so Sony has proven that it's consoles last at the very least past 5 years. The 360 on the other hand, has know where else to go. The 720 is knocking at it's door already, and it's only been 3 years.

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RE: Are there 2m+ Wiis out there. ?

By BZDTemp on 12/15/2008 5:27:01 PM , Rating: 2

It's not even close to halfway. Just look at the length of the PS2 life.

Microsoft is the company that makes console which only last a short time. Sony is not.

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RE: Are there 2m+ Wiis out there. ?

By joemoedee on 12/16/2008 10:55:54 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
The PS3 is almost halfway through its lifecycle, when is 'yet'?

Sony shoots for 10 year life cycles with their consoles, so it's still really early on in its lifespan. (If they hold to their original strategy)

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RE: Are there 2m+ Wiis out there. ?

By joemoedee on 12/16/2008 11:01:37 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
Thanks for posting the numbers for all the consoles. I don't know that there were 2m Wiis to sell in Nov (perhaps some stock built up over the summer?), but I think a part of Sony's strategy is the PS2 .

Earlier this year the PS2 outsold both the 360 and PS3 in the US. I believe it was in March, but I'm not certain.

The PS2 is still quite viable, 200k is a good number, considering they spend nothing on advertising it. I expect it to do quite well this month, maybe not as great as last year, but still very respectable. I'd love to see what the PS2 costs them to produce nowadays.

In fact, I personally got one finally. (My 6th gen collection is complete!) My brother picked up his two oldest children PS2s for Christmas as well. Why? Game selection and price.

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Never Try To Claim Neutrality Again

By bplewis24 on 12/15/2008 10:49:11 AM , Rating: 5

Why am I not surprised by DailyTech's psuedo neutrality when it comes to journalism standards and bias?

When Sony outsold the 360 for several months out of this year, there were no bold headlines about it and usually only a small footnote of reference to it while talking about the Wii's domination of both consoles.

But after the 360 price drop, the two article's since have headlines in big bold letters about how the PS3 is getting spanked by the 360, despite the fact that the Wii is still hammering them both.

When the PS3 is outselling the 360 (in the U.S. or abroad), the focus is on the Wii, when the 360 outsells the PS3, the focus is on the 360/PS3 battle. Please, never ever act surprised by claims of favoritism by this website again. You guys are a joke.

Brandon

RE: Never Try To Claim Neutrality Again

By The0ne on 12/15/2008 10:52:50 AM , Rating: 3

I heartily concur. These type of journalism articles are truly pathetic in the scope of "consoles" sales or discussions. As a gamer, this is sad.

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RE: Never Try To Claim Neutrality Again

By Treripica on 12/15/2008 4:49:34 PM , Rating: 3

While I can't claim as much anger as the parent post, I am pretty disappointed by the level of bias coming up in DT's articles as of late.

I used to share out DT's articles very often and used the site to cite pretty groundbreaking stuff(New nukes in Russia, China exporting nuke tech, VASIMR, Oil in the Arctic, etc), but this plus previous releases (http://www.dailytech.com/Report+US+Expected+to+Los... has me putting DT out of the hard news list and into the more opinion/FoxNews category. May be factual, but one has to sift out the author's bias first, which is unfortunate.

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RE: Never Try To Claim Neutrality Again

By omnicronx on 12/15/2008 5:17:26 PM , Rating: 2

Perhaps this is because 360 and PS3 sales had been pretty much on par for the last little while?

I also think you are over exaggerating a bit..

http://www.dailytech.com/PlayStation+3+Sales+Up+29...

http://www.dailytech.com/PS3+Outsells+Xbox+360+Bes...

http://www.dailytech.com/PlayStation+3+Outsells+Wi...

http://www.dailytech.com/49+Million+PS3s+Sold+in+H...

There was a 6-8 month period where it was all about the PS3 and Wii.. Perhaps you have not been reading DT that long, but I really don't see what you are talking about. Going back over a year they spread out the articles pretty evenly.

Recently the PS3 has been dead last in sales thus the lack of articles, so I don't know what are you expecting, DT writers to lie to make you happy?

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RE: Never Try To Claim Neutrality Again

By crystal clear on 12/16/2008 6:52:29 AM , Rating: 2

D.T.writers are like "quants" .......

who are loaded on with " bad & or biased data built on faulty assumptions."

GIGO principle at work....

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RE: Never Try To Claim Neutrality Again

By Elementalism on 12/16/2008 1:05:50 PM , Rating: 2

The numbers the PS3 was outselling the 360 werent even worth talking about. 5K here, 7K there. It would have taken decades for the PS3 to close the gap. Now, the 360 outselling the PS3 2:1. That is really worth talking about.

The software sales side of this is ridiculously tilted towards Nintendo and the 360. It is only going to get worse with hardware numbers like this.

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How can this be?????

By Aloonatic on 12/15/2008 9:47:57 AM , Rating: 2

The open Home beta is out now *gasps in disbelief

With the xBox as super cheap as it is now (Arcade + Mirrors Edge < £130) it is moving well into the PS2 price bracket now and when credit crunched (god I hate that phrase) parents look at the prices it's really a no-brainer.

Then the "momentum" is clearly with MS and the xBox, as with the rise of on-line gaming, you may really want a PS3, but if all your friends have an xBox you are going to be a lonely little boy all alone, not able to join in with your friends as they blast those nasty Locust etc.

Maybe you'll make plenty of new friends in home, but if you're in the UK be warned, most people you meet will be speaking French or Spanish (or some other crazy gibberish) so I hope you are at least bilingual.

It'll be interesting to see how Sony handle this.

They need to reduce prices and fast, but their hands are tied by the BD player as third party stand alone player manufacturers won't be happy to be caught up in a price war, especially the way that the economy is going.

It really does look bad for Sony.

RE: How can this be?????

By TheDoc9 on 12/15/2008 10:26:45 AM , Rating: 1

lol, what? How's the weather over there in Redmond.

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RE: How can this be?????

By Aloonatic on 12/15/2008 10:50:55 AM , Rating: 2

You want to make a more constructive comment?

FYI, I am usually rather critical of MS's treatment of their customer and I am no lover of their work, but that doesn't change the facts as they stand.

If you're going to buy a games console and you don't want a wii what are you going to choose right now?

If you're not interested in Blue Ray (and lets face it, who is in the "main stream"?) then why buy a PS3?

Seriously?

The way the sales and momentum are at the moment the odds are that your friends have an xBox and you want to play with them on-line rather than some random stranger right?

Little big planet was fun, but not that great, erm...

The actual unit may be more reliable, technically superior (it always seems that the more "technically superior" console loses out in sales?) better looking and quieter, with that wonderful BD player...

.. but it is still behind and when it comes to games and online.

The PS3 is still playing catchup so should they not be charging less, not more, than the competition?

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RE: How can this be?????

By BansheeX on 12/16/2008 12:28:33 AM , Rating: 1

quote:
If you're not interested in Blue Ray (and lets face it, who is in the "main stream"?) then why buy a PS3?

Uhhhh, besides the list you gave, I'd say you're not comparing the game libraries very honestly. The two share 80% of their games, and both have great exclusives, though the PS3's seems a bit more creative genre-wise.

As for online, wth is wrong with it? 4 years of 360 ownership nets you $200 in fees. The PS3 is free and works fine, spend the $200 on movies and games.

Not to mention you can upgrade to any 500gb oem laptop drive for $100 on newegg. MS locks you in to a proprietary sale. Here's the biggest one: 120gb for $160.
http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-120GB-Hard-Drive/dp...

Starting to figure out how they got the shelf price so low, aren't you, boy? Netplay fees, HD-DVD sold separately, 1000% markups on hard drive upgrades. Shelf price sucked you in, now it's time for the endless nickle-diming. Lube up.

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RE: How can this be?????

By BZDTemp on 12/16/2008 10:37:18 AM , Rating: 2

Blu Ray interest will come. In Japan blu ray discs are now selling more copies than DVD and this is total sales not just a few selected titles but total number of discs sold.

You seem to forget that the console business is an almost global thing (Global= The western world plus the rich Asia). In other words the success of the PS3 and Blu ray is not just about the US.

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RE: How can this be?????

By Aloonatic on 12/15/2008 1:09:56 PM , Rating: 2

So you really don't have anything to say then?

Too many tears being shed at Sony Towers over there in Tokyo?

Or are you too scared about being the next guy to getting fired?

fyi,

http://www.weather.com/weather/local/USWA0367?lswe...

lol

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RE: How can this be?????

By TheDoc9 on 12/16/2008 2:50:01 PM , Rating: 2

lol, The weather, nice.

I've owned both systems, the 360 was a money train for ms. The only real exclusive they have is gears of war, everything else is either not worth it or available on other systems. My bias was learned from the beginning. After that free month of xbox live gold ms was so generous in giving me. I decided it wasn't worth it to me to be charged for something that's been free for over 10 years on the pc.

The streaming episodes on Xbox live are to expensive (same on PSN for that matter), and the machine wasn't very versatile at the time with the other formats. Time to sell.

As far as the main stream, price is the main factor. If the PS3 dropped to $179 tomorrow it would sell out. That's how it works, now that mom and dad got last years cheapest console the wii, they will get this years because their kid has to have everything.

It's like driving a Hyundia vs. an Audi. Fewer people can afford the Audi, but everyone wants it.

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RE: How can this be?????

By timmiser on 12/15/2008 2:30:21 PM , Rating: 2

Snowed on Saturday night... Freezing cold this week. :)

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Lots of Dumb stuff posted here...

By SoylentG on 12/15/2008 10:30:25 AM , Rating: 3

The Sony Bundles are 399 and 499, not 499 and 599. While the numbers are only from September 2008, PS3 has sold approximately 17 million. 360 has sold approximately 23 million, 10 million of which were sold before ps3 even came out. In all reality, since PS3's release, the x360 has only sold 13m, as opposed to sony's 17m. Compare some apples to apples and don't sensationalize on what happened one month. Damn.

RE: Lots of Dumb stuff posted here...

By crystal clear on 12/15/2008 11:00:20 AM , Rating: 3

Yes indeed-

Sony's PlayStation 3, with 13 million units in users' living rooms, and Microsoft's Xbox 360, with 23 million units.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/11/28/nintendo-wii-wii2...

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RE: Lots of Dumb stuff posted here...

By StevoLincolnite on 12/15/2008 11:15:50 AM , Rating: 2

Uh What?

Here the cheapest bundled PS3 is "$670" and the Arcade for "$278". - That is OVER twice the price. (I'm in Australia - And that was my local game stores pricing).

The Xbox 360 has reached the 22 Million Mark, while the PS3 has almost reached 17 Million and the Wii has almost hit 35 Million.

Xbox 360: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360
Playstation 3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3
Wii: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii

Cool thing is that the Xbox has almost reached the same sales as what the Xbox 1 achieved!

Yes I use Wikipedia as it has shown it is capable of re-writing history and predicting the future.

Whats interesting though is how it almost seems like Ninentdo and Sony swapped places on Console Sales in comparison to last generation and Microsoft has remained in Second place almost consistently.

I bet this is Nintendo's Revenge from the crap with the Snes/N64 and PS1 and the CD Drive.

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RE: Lots of Dumb stuff posted here...

By BansheeX on 12/16/2008 12:41:38 AM , Rating: 2

Look up the PS1 and PS2 sales compared to their competitors and your eyes will bulge. This generation is a ratrace by comparison. By the way, Sony designed the sound chip for the SNES, the SPC700. It freaking rocked, way ahead of its time. Too bad Nintendo designed the rest, it came out a full year after the Genesis and had a CPU half as fast. Otherwise, the Genesis would have had nothing to pimp in its stupid commercials. If it wasn't for the gameboy revenue, their next paranoid anti-cd design, the n64, would have been their last home console. Even their great first-party games couldn't stop the PS1 from outselling it 100 million to 30 million.

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XBOX 360 w/Blu-ray Support

By 16nm on 12/15/2008 9:21:45 AM , Rating: 3

I think if MS added a Bluray player to its XBOX then the PS3 sales would look much, much worse than they already do. At the least, MS should make the Elite standard w/Bluray support.

RE: XBOX 360 w/Blu-ray Support

By afkrotch on 12/15/08, Rating: -1

RE: XBOX 360 w/Blu-ray Support

By MooseMuffin on 12/15/2008 9:57:04 AM , Rating: 2

The 360 now has 1680x1050 support using vga cables. It was patched it with the new dashboard.

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RE: XBOX 360 w/Blu-ray Support

By omnicronx on 12/15/08, Rating: 0

RE: XBOX 360 w/Blu-ray Support

By BansheeX on 12/15/2008 11:21:23 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
I think if MS added a Bluray player to its XBOX then the PS3 sales would look much, much worse than they already do.

Adding blu-ray capability would raise the price to at least $300. Take out shelf discounts negated by having netplay fees, add wireless and an 80gb hard drive, and you're around $350, which is probably what the PS3 should have dropped to this winter.

In other words, you still haven't figured out how MS got the SHELF price to $200 on the lowest model, and are pretending that adding everything they took out would not affect the price and have the same sales results. That is beyond absurd.

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RE: XBOX 360 w/Blu-ray Support

By SRoode on 12/15/2008 9:30:26 PM , Rating: 2

It's not worth it at this point to do so. You can get a BR player for $199 (It will drop big time after the holidays). Why put the R&D into an add on unit that you could not possibly sell for less?

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well...

By TSS on 12/15/2008 9:24:52 AM , Rating: 3

i'm not toutching this with a 60 feet pole.

i smell a flame war all over this.

RE: well...

By Aloonatic on 12/15/2008 11:06:30 AM , Rating: 3

31 comments down and no sight of you-know-who.

Are we to take it that they have been banned?

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Idiots

By mfed3 on 12/15/2008 10:12:15 AM , Rating: 2

I truly do not know who is more dillusional, Sony or their idiot fanboys...

When will people learn that the entire company is run on over hyped, under performing, over priced products of a name that used to hold water in the 90s. WAKE UP SONY SUCKS

RE: Idiots

By Spookster on 12/15/2008 10:23:48 AM , Rating: 2

I truly do not know who is more dillusional, Microsoft or their idiot fanboys...

When will people learn that the entire company is run on over hyped, under performing, over priced products of a name that used to hold water in the 90s. WAKE UP MICROSOFT SUCKS

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RE: Idiots

By kalak on 12/17/2008 10:16:59 AM , Rating: 2

Give this man a 6 !!!!

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Let's listen to the fanboys

By tirminyl on 12/15/2008 7:56:10 PM , Rating: 2

Let's lower the price of the PS3 to respond in a fanboy like fashion. Let's not worry about if the PS3 manufacturings costs are, at the minimum, breaking even. Let's ignore the current conversion rates of dollar, lb, etc., to the soaring yen that is already causing them shrinked pockets.

In this one swift move Sony would be losing even more on the PS3. Now, if the cost of manufacturing has hit a point where they can cut price, then they will.

I would like them to take a look at their most obvious downfall, marketing.

RE: Let's listen to the fanboys

By djchrisco7 on 12/15/2008 8:57:36 PM , Rating: 2

The fact of the matter is that Sony incorrectly applied many of the same strategies that worked for the PS2 and applied it to the ps3. The only problem is that they didn't check their ambition at the door. They believed that all of the ps2 owners would simply upgrade to the ps3 simply because it had the name Sony printed on it. Yet they forgot that:

1) They were the first ones out the racing block with the PS one. The extra time on the market allowed them to lower the price point substantially on the XBOX. They also had great developer support which also helped crush the Dreamcast way back in its fetal stages.

-In the current generation, they were behind Microsoft in launching the PS3 and the cell architecture proved too complicated and time consuming when compared to its nearest competitor--the XBOX 360.

-It was simply a better business decision for many of these game developers to forgo the added expense of learning this deep, complicated programming architecture if you can just port from the lower end XBOX 360 to the higher end PS3 and double your market exposure to potential customers.

2) They forgot that they did have other competitors. Sony wildly underestimated what Nintendo and Microsoft were bringing to the table. In Nintendo's case, they thought they could destroy arguably the greatest revenue stream of Nintendo which is there valuable Game Boy franchise. Most people forget that even during the failing years of the Gamecube, Nintendo was still raking in money from the Game Boy(s). When I say Game Boys, I mean every single iteration and evolution that they have undergone. From the large mono screen of the grey one to the touch screen DS.

Sony wanted to attack this revenue stream with the PS Portable. Yet, they underestimated their ability to compete with Nintendo. Microsoft WAS SO SMART to not launch a full scale battle with Nintendo in the hand held category. They knew they wouldn't be able to compete with that part of the revenue base. Yet, Sony believed they would be able to crush them in the market. Which didn't happen. Now true, Sony isn't doing bad in the hand held category, but that is added money spent on the PS portable that could have went to the PS3. Imagine if they would diverted that money to securing exclusives, developing relations with 3rd party developers, or even saving it in case they would have to go toe to toe with Microsoft in a bidding war.

3) They forgot that Microsoft was the same company that holds a monopoly on every machine with an OS AKA They didn't have a healthy fear of Microsoft. I knew the minute Microsoft announced they were jumping in the console business that Sony would have a fight on their hands. They should have known that Microsoft lays its plans measured in years and not quarters. Microsoft wants the living room, if it took 2, 3, or 4 iterations of the product to get it right they would have done it. Sony should have factored in their opponent into their business plan. They should have been ready for a price war. Yet here we are, and they have spent everything of R&D on the cell and Blu-Ray. They misjudged Microsoft at the wrong junction in history.

Now it isn't over for Sony, but they are really going to have to get their act together. Im not sure if it is financially viable for them to lower the price. They need every dollar that leaves their customers to their accounting department. What they need to do is win back the perception war. Sony PS3 is perceived to be losing at the moment. And this perception will only grow stronger with time. They need to emphasis the strengths of the console and emphasis it well. If your console is the Ferrari of gaming, say it outright. Tell the customer that this is the best console hands down. If they don't I believe there is a strong possibility that Sony might slice off SCEA. The once towering Giant may go the way of SEGA and so many others...

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RE: Let's listen to the fanboys

By joemoedee on 12/16/2008 6:21:14 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
They need to emphasis the strengths of the console and emphasis it well. If your console is the Ferrari of gaming, say it outright. Tell the customer that this is the best console hands down. If they don't I believe there is a strong possibility that Sony might slice off SCEA. The once towering Giant may go the way of SEGA and so many others...

Outside of some of the non-gaming attributes (Most notably BluRay) there have not been many compelling reasons to buy a PS3 over the lower priced competitors. The Cross Platform experience is the same, for the most part. The PS3 exclusives, overall, have not been as good as the 360's.

In the long run, BluRay will be a distinct advantage for Sony, IMO. Not just because it can play BR movies, but their gaming media is BR. If they can get enough developers to exploit this distinct advantage, then Sony could ultimately overtake MS and could actually push Nintendo. It's just going to be a bumpy road to get there, if they get there.

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Sony Blind to reality

By BenSkywalker on 12/15/2008 11:55:35 AM , Rating: 3

So for the month of November

Nintendo sells 3.61Million hardware units

Sony sells 1.01Million hardware units

Microsoft sells .84Million hardware units

..... and we are supposed to conclude that MS is the big winner....? The fact that MS is utterly obliterated by the more expensive Wii should be worrisome for MS. Sony can still hide behind the fact that they are considerably more expensive and that's why they can not compete, why is MS being butchered in marketshare?

The kid argument- GameCube anyone?

RE: Sony Blind to reality

By Dreifort on 12/16/2008 2:59:33 PM , Rating: 2

Nitendo pulled an Elmo when it hit the market - and continued the Elmo marketing throughout 2008. Shipping only a dozen or so units at a time to retail outlets in controled distribution. Then spend millions advertising sending shoppers to retail stores asking for the Wii...only to be told, "sorry, we're out of stock, check back on Sunday".

This lead to lines of customers waiting for the retail stores to open on Sunday mornings. Then word got around how scarce the Wiis are. Soon they are all over Ebay for ridiculious prices. Customers get in shouting matches with retail employees demanding Wiis.

Now everyone thinks Wiis are the best thing ever and they never even read a review or played one. Just based on shopper demand. It was Summer 2008 that nitendo finally added a few more Wiis to their distribution to retail stores... but just in time to introduce the new Fitness-Me-Elmo!

Controled shippment on WiiFit. Bam! Market demand for a piece of plastic you stand on.

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Can no one do math anymore?

By BZDTemp on 12/15/2008 3:06:29 PM , Rating: 3

Seems like everybody is very keen on declaring the PS3 are forgetting something. Microsoft may shift more boxes at the moment but their price is so much lower the difference in the amount of green they bring in is pretty small when compared to Sony. In fact instead of doing "The PS3 is dead, Sony has lost it..."-stories you may as well have stories saying something like "360 fire sales raises numbers but kills Microsoft cash wise". I think that if Sony was a US company and Microsoft a Japanese one the media would play a different tune.

I think it is way to soon to declare if Sony or Microsoft wins this one. And no I did not forget the Wii it's just in a different market so it does not belong in the equation.

RE: Can no one do math anymore?

By astralsolace on 12/18/2008 5:31:48 PM , Rating: 2

Delusional. You want the math? Sony's lost billions on the PS3 and continues to lose money on each PS3 they sell. Microsoft is making money on each 360 they sell. The most profitable aspect--games--Microsoft also continues to sell more of.

What was your point exactly? Profitability > Unprofitability. Period.

Sony jumped the gun by trying to shoehorn Blu-Ray into the PS3 when the environment didn't yet call for it, when they should have been negotiating with the HD-DVD organization into going back to a single solution.

Consumers did not want a Blu-Ray v. HD-DVD war. Who did it benefit? Certainly not the consumer. People wouldn't jump in and invest for fear of another Betamax fiasco, and now that Blu-Ray's won, the manufacturing costs are still unrealistic; they're trying to charge $29.99 per movie, which, especially in this market, few are willing to pay so HD adoption slows down even more.

Essentially, the penor contest between the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD conglomerates cost them both a piece of the pie and simply accelerated digital distribution, which IS a good thing for the consumer. :)

The fact that Microsoft was so utterly behind in the last generation, and yet has stolen the crown (where non-casual games are concerned) from Sony that reigned SUPREME over the last two generations essentially makes it their victory, even if the lead is only moderate and not overwhelming. The 360 continues to pick up momentum while Sony refuses to drop the price, their stock plummets and to date, there are only two exclusives for PS3 rated 9.0 or above on Metacritic.

Pass.

Parent

Price ? PS3 is a better value

By Bardan on 12/16/2008 12:42:33 AM , Rating: 1

So a 80 gig PS3 will run you $399.99 at your local game shop/everywhere.

A XBox360 arcade is $199.99 but is a totaly pointless system.

An Xbox360 Pro is $299.99, with 2 games currently (one is ok the other is worthless).

So at the start a 360 is $100 dollers less.

If you happen to want to conect your Xbox to wireless, well then...$99.99 for a wireless card and boom you have allready made up the diffrence in price.

Or maybe you want to be able to recharge your contoller, well that will cost you 19.99.

More then a 60gig HD? Well you best get a Elite, but that costs the same as a PS3.

I work at a game store which sells both these systems, and I allways have a hard time telling some one to get a Xbox360 over a PS3. Sure the Xbox360 has more games, but most of the big releases are now on both systems. The PS3 is the best BlueRay player out there, and that saves you a bit over $300 right there.

Xbox360, even the new 45nm ones still Red Ring of Doom. Mine has had to go back to MS 3 times so far, and I only use it to play Halo 3, and Gears 1 and 2. Yet it can't even do that without dieing.

Sure the PS3 costs a bit more at the start, but its just a better system. You can change the HD without having to buy from MS, who charge more per Gig then WD does for there 10,000rmp VelRapter. I threw a nice OCZ SD drive in my PS3, no way I could do that to my 360. You can install another OS if you want, and heck you can use any headset at all, so long as its bluetooth.

Sure the Xbox 360 may seem cheaper when you buy it, but in the long run MS will take every penny you have just to keep it current and after those 3 years are up and you get a RRoD and you will, your 299.99 Xbox360 is now worth nothing.

Sony is at the right price point with the PS3, sad thing is that most people don't know enough to see that.. Its better made, better supported, and more gamer friendly. Unless you are planing on owning all 3 systems, I see no reason to buy anything but a PS3.

And as for the Wii, really who cares. I don't like gimmicks

RE: Price ? PS3 is a better value

By rubyxc7 on 12/16/2008 12:28:34 PM , Rating: 2

>> A XBox360 arcade is $199.99 but is a totaly pointless system.

It's like a wii. People will buy because its cheap and you can play most games on it. (New jaspers have 256 onboard) Otherwise you can upgrade it and it becomes what most other gamers want.

>>An Xbox360 Pro is $299.99, with 2 games currently (one is ok the other is worthless).

Where as the PS3 you get a system with no games for 100 more?

>>If you happen to want to conect your Xbox to wireless, well then...$99.99 for a wireless card and boom you have allready made up the diffrence in price.

5 dollar Cat-5 cord?

>>More then a 60gig HD? Well you best get a Elite, but that costs the same as a PS3.

What are you putting on it?

>>I work at a game store which sells both these systems, and I allways have a hard time telling some one to get a Xbox360 over a PS3. Sure the Xbox360 has more games, but most of the big releases are now on both systems. The PS3 is the best BlueRay player out there, and that saves you a bit over $300 right there.

1. No, Gears, Halo, Mass effect... etc.. No backwards compatability on PS3.
2. Most people looking for a bluray player can find them now under 300. Most people looking for a game console most likely arn't looking for bluray specifically.

>> Sure the PS3 costs a bit more at the start, but its just a better system. You can change the HD without having to buy from MS, who charge more per Gig then WD does for there 10,000rmp VelRapter. I threw a nice OCZ SD drive in my PS3, no way I could do that to my 360. You can install another OS if you want, and heck you can use any headset at all, so long as its bluetooth.

Do a lot of gamers do this? Why?

>>Sure the Xbox 360 may seem cheaper when you buy it, but in the long run MS will take every penny you have just to keep it current and after those 3 years are up and you get a RRoD and you will, your 299.99 Xbox360 is now worth nothing.

Agreed.

>>Sony is at the right price point with the PS3, sad thing is that most people don't know enough to see that.. Its better made, better supported, and more gamer friendly. Unless you are planing on owning all 3 systems, I see no reason to buy anything but a PS3.

The PS3 is a sweet machine all around. It tries to be too much and is far more than any gamer/consumer needs.

>>And as for the Wii, really who cares. I don't like gimmicks

Might not be for you but lots of people can pick up a wii and play it. It's aimed at a much more general audience yet still more serious gamers can still get some enjoyment out of it.

The point of this is that the PS3 too expensive when everyone views it as just a game console or just a bluray player. Don't get me wrong, I like all 3 systems in different ways, but looking at it from the markets view, the PS3 is the most 'confused'.

Parent

RE: Price ? PS3 is a better value

By wempa on 12/16/2008 12:46:37 PM , Rating: 2

As the previous person stated, it really all depends on your situation. If you are set on getting Blu-Ray + wireless connectivity and you don't care about the Xbox exclusives, then by all means a PS3 is probably a better choice for you. There are 2 things to keep in mind though. First off, the PS3 is more expensive, regardless of whether or not you get more for your money. Secondly, some people don't necessarily need all of those extras. I already had a few wireless bridges so I didn't care that the Xbox wireless adapter wasn't included. In this economy, people are looking for low prices. The $199 Xbox arcade is not totally pointless. Now that they actually include a memory card and some games, it's a great inexpensive choice for a current generation console. On a side note, I own all 3 systems so I don't really have any specific bias. I use the Xbox 360 the most, but I already had to do the X-Clamp repair to fix the RROD. The Wii is fun for family gatherings. The PS3 I really have only been using to watch a handful of Blu-Ray movies and some PS2 games.

Parent

Waiting for the other one to drop

By djc208 on 12/15/2008 10:17:56 AM , Rating: 2

I think the second problem Sony has is that BD players are finally starting to come down to reasonable price points. Especially with no good $300 PS3 offering out there.

For the longest time it was the only good option for a BD player. With older 1.1 hardware below $200 and newer 2.0 stuff moving below $300 (and improving in playback) the other sales motivation is starting to dissapear.

While Sony is doing poorly in each nitche ... it will survive

By VooDooAddict on 12/15/2008 2:26:41 PM , Rating: 2

Yes, Sony is doing poorly in each nitche. However it's wide selection of offerings is keeping it in the game. This will give them another shot in the next round.

Microsoft only has one hardware platform in the game, in essence they are lucky the 360 is doing so well. Don't get me wrong the platform is great.

(Disclosure - I own 360 Elite, Wii, DS, and an old PS2 sitting in the closet for the occasional Time Crysis game.)

Not a great year for Sony.

By bkslopper on 12/15/2008 6:00:40 PM , Rating: 2

In 2005, most of my friends were talking about how they were going to buy a PS3. When the 360 debuted, they scoffed at its high price. Funny that they all have 360's now.

in sony's defense

By Totally on 12/17/2008 5:56:16 PM , Rating: 2

ps3 owners are not replacing or "upgrading" their 360's.

my brother has purchased 4 units to date, 3 as replacements and upgraded to the elite when that came out.

360 as media center extender

By Daavid on 12/18/2008 8:35:20 AM , Rating: 2

I'm surprised I haven't spotted any comments about the fact that 360's are great as Windows Media Center extenders aswell. Its one more reason people might be enticed to buy them and as already mentioned you can pick up 2 360s for the price of a PS3. Thats a fair few TVs in the house with access to alot of digital media from you media center PC if you have one.