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Someday, these two may become one
Toshiba and Microsoft cooking up new HD DVD-enabled Xbox

For better or worse, some consumers are purchasing a PlayStation 3 not for its gaming abilities, but rather its Blu-ray Disc movie playback functionality. While Sony’s gaming division may prefer that its customers be gamers, the bottom line is that those interested in just Blu-ray Disc movies will give Sony another notch in the sales and installed base column – a phenomenon not unlike with DVD during the launch of the PlayStation 2.

With high-definition format crown still up for grabs, both HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc camps are doing whatever they can to gain the advantage. Microsoft and Toshiba, the two main pillars of HD DVD, are reportedly working on a new entertainment set-top box that will integrate the gaming functions of the Xbox 360 and the movie playback functions of a Toshiba HD DVD player, according to Smarthouse.

The new device is supposedly being developed in response to Sony’s myriad of entertainment features on the PlayStation 3, driving the sales of Blu-ray Disc software.

Oddly enough, a recent study says that most gamers are clueless about the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 high-definition features, bringing into question the argument of consoles driving high-definition media sales.

“An Xbox with a built in HD DVD drive is critical,” a senior Toshiba executive in Singapore told the website. “They and we are working onit. It also has to be more than a gaming machine. Microsoft recognises this.”

As a full-featured entertainment hub, such a product would appeal to a broader market than just those in Microsoft’s current Xbox target audience. In fact, a Toshiba machine with similarly wide capabilities may hit the market. “A version of the device may also be sold under the Toshiba brand name,”added the Toshiba executive.

While current Xbox 360 owners may add HD DVD playback capabilities to their consoles with a $179 add-on drive, overall penetration of high-definition movies into Xbox gamers has been less than stellar. With an estimated 155,000 units HD DVD add-on drives sold in the U.S. through mid-year, Microsoft and Toshiba maybe looking into ways of getting the high-definition gaming crowd into movies.The answer may be in Sony’s strategy.

Sony has once dabbled before in releasing a consumer-centric entertainment machine based on its games console. Released only in Japan, the PSX was a set-top box with PVR and PS2 capabilities built-in. The PSX was reserved for the higher-end home entertainment purposes, but never quite found its market.

Xbox 360 gamers afraid that a new machine would make their current systems obsolete have little to worry about, however, as Microsoft has said on multiple occasions that its Xbox 360 games will never require an HD DVD drive.

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This is an Option for Married people.
By Mitch101 on 10/22/2007 8:53:58 AM , Rating: 4
Wife "I put the movie in the x-box 360 and its still not playing"
Husband "Did you put it in the x-box 360 or the external drive"
Wife "Ok its working now"
1:15 later:
Wife "Im putting a game in the drive and its not working"
Husband "Games need to go in the 360 not the external drive"
Wife "Ok its working now"

My wife is not technical and heaven forbid her parents come over and try this. While I have a logitech harmony remote to try and simplify things they wont get it. The less options the better.

I will also add with set top HD-DVD's units being so cheap I would have purchased one of them over the 360 external drive being that the 360 external drive is around the same price. If I can reduce this down to 1-Box the 360 with internal HD-DVD drive then this will make my life easier.

RE: This is an Option for Married people.
By IceTron on 10/22/07, Rating: -1
By MrPickins on 10/22/2007 12:15:33 PM , Rating: 2
So anyone not proficient in the latest technology is a moron?

What a dumb attitude...

By RandallMoore on 10/22/2007 1:01:49 PM , Rating: 4
Only on the internet would someone say that without getting their face smashed in.

RE: This is an Option for Married people.
By Mitch101 on 10/22/2007 1:11:55 PM , Rating: 4
Since she was a test model for Playboy I forgive her.

By nayy on 10/22/2007 3:08:21 PM , Rating: 3
I applaud you both for your tolerance to total lack of manners and your hot wife.

RE: This is an Option for Married people.
By IceTron on 10/22/07, Rating: -1
By mikeyD95125 on 10/25/2007 12:41:14 AM , Rating: 1
Your a dick. And that I would say to your face.

Sony <= Toshiba => Microsoft
By Evangels on 10/22/2007 8:51:00 AM , Rating: 2
"Toshiba, Sony and SCEI sign a joint venture deal in production of PlayStation 3 processors"

Toshiba is going to produce PS3 processors for Sony.
They are also at the same side with MS(hd-dvd).

Not sure why toshiba is doing this, maybe they think becoming a middle-man actually make more money???

I don't know, I just like everything sample, one format, and that will benefit everyone and cut the cost down faster.

RE: Sony <= Toshiba => Microsoft
By FITCamaro on 10/22/2007 8:59:58 AM , Rating: 2
No just Toshiba was one of the partners on the Cell chip same as IBM. Cell is not Sony's invention, it merely was a partner in the development. IBM was responsible for the majority of its development. Sony is just the one getting all the glory since the PS3 is its most visible use.

Just because they worked together to produce Cell though, doesn't mean they have to agree on the high def formats. To me, Sony selling its Cell production facilities is a bad sign for them.

RE: Sony <= Toshiba => Microsoft
By SunAngel on 10/22/2007 11:52:34 AM , Rating: 2
I'm lost.

Isn't Sony Broadband engine ~ to the Cell name?

When you pop open Siemen's MRI machine doesn't that big ole' chip say Sony Broadband Engine on the top?

RE: Sony <= Toshiba => Microsoft
By Zandros on 10/22/2007 12:12:29 PM , Rating: 2
The chips are labeled Cell B/E IIRC, not Sony Broadband Engine.

RE: Sony <= Toshiba => Microsoft
By Strunf on 10/22/2007 5:56:14 PM , Rating: 1
The PS3 is the only reason you even get to hear about the CELL, if SONY didn't make this hype around the PS3 and CELL no one would give a crap about it... there's plenty of CPU out there and very few really get any coverage let along the one CELL got cause of SONY.

RE: Sony <= Toshiba => Microsoft
By mcturkey on 10/22/2007 11:16:52 AM , Rating: 2
Toshiba is, like IBM, one of those companies that does electronics manufacturing and design really well. Thus, companies like Sony and Microsoft benefit greatly by partnering with them. Like IBM, Toshiba will profit no matter what, because they don't sell the end product to consumers.

As for which format wins, I have my reasons for preferring HDDVD, but I just got a refurbished 20GB PS3 for under $300 specifically for Blu-Ray.

RE: Sony <= Toshiba => Microsoft
By Shlong on 10/22/2007 4:06:52 PM , Rating: 2
Well Blu Ray is a Sony format... cell cpu, Toshiba saw they could make some money off of it... with the acquistion from Sony. HD-DVD is a Toshiba format... Microsoft is just a platform in which they could distribute & build a larger customer base.

Complete side topic
By VoodooChicken on 10/22/2007 10:03:02 AM , Rating: 2
I'm just really pissed I see the Best Buy add-on this weekend that includes Heroes on HD DVD. I bought the add-on during the summer just before the $20 cut (still paid cheaper on eBay), and paid around $65 for Heroes. That really irks. And to boot, I STILL don't own an Xbox!

RE: Complete side topic
By softwiz on 10/22/2007 10:23:35 AM , Rating: 2
Ah, the benefits of being an early adopter! ;)

RE: Complete side topic
By softwiz on 10/22/2007 10:52:41 AM , Rating: 2
I forgot to mention that I own a standalone Toshiba HD-DVD player and have purchased Heroes as well.

RE: Complete side topic
By zombiexl on 10/22/2007 10:30:26 AM , Rating: 4
I got my drive last XMAS for 160 and bought Heros on HD.

I'm not one bit upset. I paid for what I wanted, when i wanted it.

RE: Complete side topic
By rsasp on 10/22/2007 12:05:51 PM , Rating: 2
Too bad..that's what electronics are, you buy it today, the next day they're gonna have a price cut, and you decided not to buy it today, it'll seems like they are never going to do a price cut.

Good idea
By mdogs444 on 10/22/2007 7:29:51 AM , Rating: 3
Whether you support HD or BD, I still think this is a worthwhile idea if it meets a certain price point. Personally I have neither, but if they can include it to maybe the Elite or Pro console for about a $100 premium, I think it could be a great addition to the Xbox 360 line-up.

IMO, if they could release something like this in the $400-$500 range, it could prove to be popular. But with so many people out there already having their 360's, and with over 150,000 add-on units sold, it remains to be seen how many would be willing to replace what they have with the updated console.

RE: Good idea
By StevoLincolnite on 10/22/2007 8:18:00 AM , Rating: 2
Actually I had the Idea that Toshiba would be Producing the unit as a Set top box, with HDDVD and Xbox 360 abilities, this would give a boost to the Xbox camp, and Toshiba also can use the fact its HDDVD player can play Xbox 360 games would be good for Advertising as well.

Plus if Microsoft Integrates HDDVD support into the High-End units it could help as well.

Personally I'm not going to go Blueray or HDDVD until there is a clear Format winner, otherwise I am comfortable with my DivX for the time being.

RE: Good idea
By ATC on 10/22/2007 10:58:29 AM , Rating: 3
I think that it's a no brainer than an HD-DVD equipped 360 would be a good idea and I think it would sell well too.

The rumour that Toshiba would be the one designing/building it alleviates major consumers' concerns about reliability. This thing needs to be reliable , run cool and quiet ; things the current companies contracted out to produce the 360 are having a tough time achieving. Toshiba designing and producing this media hub/box has great potential IMO.

Oddly Enough
By Guyver on 10/22/2007 8:16:19 AM , Rating: 3
"Oddly enough, a recent study says that most gamers are clueless about the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 high-definition features, bringing into question the argument of consoles driving high-definition media sales."

Oddly enough virtually every author who keeps citing this "research" neglects to mention that the study was conducted with a small sample size which had significant proportions of age groups that one would expect to be clueless about high-definition features. Namely the very young and the very old.

RE: Oddly Enough
By kkwst2 on 10/22/2007 2:52:51 PM , Rating: 2
Oddly enough, the "very young" and "very old" also represent "significant proportions" of the market - those who buy it and those who use it. Your argument only holds if these groups are represented disproportionately. As I can find no report of the actual age breakdown, just the range, it's hard to say either way.

Furthermore I take personal offense to your definition of "very old", as I am within a decade of the upper age range of the study (which was 44 years young).

By Mgz on 10/22/07, Rating: 0
RE: :O
By mdogs444 on 10/22/2007 9:57:55 AM , Rating: 2
No it does not. Its only seems that way if thats the way you want it to be.

There can be various different reasons they would do this.....but you are just trying to make a PS3 point on purpose as opposed to looking at the big picture.

RE: :O
By mcturkey on 10/22/2007 11:20:27 AM , Rating: 3
That decision will not be confirmed as correct until many years from now. PS3s are not moving off the shelves very quickly due to the price point caused by the expensive BR drive, among other reasons. Neither HD or BR are appearing to go away anytime soon.

If, in two or three years, BR has won thanks to PS3 sales, and the system is holding a healthy slice of the market, then we can say it was the right choice. At this moment, indications are otherwise, but it's too early to say for sure.

Possible patent infringement?
By SunAngel on 10/22/2007 11:05:37 AM , Rating: 2
Gaming device with ability for playing back high-definition media content by using integrated high definition media mechanism.

Nintendo doesn't have one.

By OneOfTheseDays on 10/22/2007 12:27:36 PM , Rating: 2
Actually they could release games on both DVD and HD-DVD. The HD-DVD could hold more maps, higher-res content, etc. I think it would work out quite well actually.

for reals
By logaldinho on 10/22/2007 9:18:31 AM , Rating: 3
ill just be happy if that hd-dvd drive makes my 360 not sound like a jet engine when its on. god that dvd drive is loud. are hddvd drives as loud as the standard dvd drive that came on my xbox?

Not bad...
By Mithan on 10/22/2007 7:48:09 AM , Rating: 2
I was already thinking of upgrading my 360 to a .65nm version with a 120 gig drive, primarily for the HDMI port, bigger hard drive AND the more reliable system, but now I hear about this rumor? Sigh. Well, if its rumored, we know its true, just like the last 10 "rumors" for the 360 that turned out to be true.

Now some of you will say "just get the HD-DVD addon", well, thats the point. I have a kick ass home theater system and since I own a PS3, I am more in the Blu-Ray camp. However, I wouldn't mind owning a HD-DVD but I don't feel like buying a Toshiba HD-DVD player OR the cheaper HD-DVD addon drive with its lesser quality. However, I wouldn't mind a 360 with a built in HD-DVD, since it saves hardware clutter, cables, etc, etc.

One thing is for sure though, I think the age of static consoles is probably at an end .

I mean, the 360 and PS3 have both undergone significant changes in hardware since they were released, though obviously the core systems have remained the same, but still. Even the Wii is said to be getting a new version that plays DVD's soon and there were even rumors of a Hi-Def Wii at some point, though that would probably be a new Wii overall so you probably can not include it.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the next console generation after this one aims to bring Trip Hawkins long dead 3D0 phylosophy back of having "one platform" with different creators. The hardware makers will no doubt be against it, but I can see the Developers pushing for this at some point as the cost of making games seems to sky rocket with each new generation.

Yes, I went off track...

By cbo on 10/22/2007 8:16:30 AM , Rating: 2
Now integrated Wi-fi. And just to get really greedy make it support N.

bad idea
By mmichii on 10/22/2007 8:28:59 AM , Rating: 2
i bought the hd-dvd drive for 360 and i still plan on getting the samsung bd-up5000 when it comes out. these might be small details but they're significant when it comes to those of us willing to pay for these high def formats.

they are 1)hdmi 1.3a with a chipset that can output bitstream True-hd and Master audio (not core) 2) internal decoding of aforementioned formats to both linear pcm and analog 7.1 outputs(for those like me not wanting to pay for another receiver) 3)support for 1080p/24. 4)upscaling using a quality chipset like reon hqv (samsung, onkyo)

360 can't even output true-hd in linear pcm and when i play mp3's and cd's it resamples them to 48khz. it won't play anything but wmv video files. so i really don't see the media hub concept here nor do i see myself wanting buy it for its hd-dvd capabilities. Being microsoft i don't think this new console will be any more of a capable player than the present 360. ps3 is a little better but the only way to hear true-hd is to pipe it to a receiver using lpcm and the hdmi chipset is incapable of bitstream encoding. it supposedly will get dts-ma in a future firmware but i wouldn't hold your breath.

don't get me wrong i love it for its intended purpose despite the fact the only way i've kept it alive is by massive modification. all i'm saying is that people who buy it as an entry level player are going to be sorely disappointed by the things it can't do.

Give the buyer the freedom
By crystal clear on 10/22/2007 8:55:43 AM , Rating: 2
M.S. should not be dragged into those high-definition format wars.

I speak strictly from the marketing point of view-

"While current Xbox 360 owners may add HD DVD playback capabilities to their consoles with a $179 add-on drive,"

Using the above as an example-

Let current/future Xbox 360 owner add on a playback capibility to their consoles with all format add on drive.

In short this add on drive plays both formats-HD DVD & Blu Ray.

This give the users/buyers the freedom to play it all without any hassles.

Developing such a "drive" will keep M.S. out of these format wars & result in huge sales for the Xbox in the future.

There will be NO price increases for the Xbox as the above is an "optional add on"-those interested can add on & those who prefer not to, can carry on using the Xbox as usual.

Let the buyer/user decide what he/she wants - dont restrict them to one format, they want FREEDOM.

Remember the buyers are always price & performance concious-

M.S. got to take this as the determining factor in their future statergies for the Xbox.

By nerdye on 10/22/2007 10:56:10 AM , Rating: 2
“An Xbox with a built in HD DVD drive is critical”

Well maybe having Xbox 360's sporting hd-dvd drives is critical for Toshiba to gain more market penetration, but I don't exactly see any pressing need for Microsoft to do this, other than add a higher end sku to the mix. Xbox 360's are selling just fine without hd-dvd drives built it, this just seems like a huge benefit to Toshiba and trivial for Microsoft to me.

I own an Xbox 360 to play games on it and am personally glad that when I purchased my 360 I didn't have to pay a price premium for movie playing capability I don't want.

Good all the way around
By XtremeM3 on 10/22/07, Rating: -1
RE: Good all the way around
By Chaser on 10/22/2007 8:10:35 AM , Rating: 2
Good for you Jeff. I agree it really was a smart move on Sony's part to include it. I'm anxiously awaiting UT3 to see how Epic implemented the Mods and additonal content etc.

RE: Good all the way around
By Master Kenobi on 10/22/2007 8:11:01 AM , Rating: 5
Microsoft won't release games on HD DVD's. It will be a movie only thing.

RE: Good all the way around
By Polynikes on 10/22/2007 8:25:22 AM , Rating: 2
You think (or know?) they'll just use multiple DVDs instead of putting games on HDDVD? I suppose that would prevent problems with users who don't have the HDDVD player, but I think eventually they're gonna have to switch formats. Maybe not until the XBox 1080.

RE: Good all the way around
By Master Kenobi on 10/22/2007 8:41:42 AM , Rating: 3
Theres also cost. It's cheaper to use DVD 9's than Blu Ray or HD DVD. Now HD DVD Media is cheaper, you won't notice since they are price fixing (Verbatim and others). Go to the store, and check out a blank HD DVD or Blu Ray, same price, even though the HD DVD is much cheaper to produce.

RE: Good all the way around
By XtremeM3 on 10/23/2007 1:09:35 AM , Rating: 2
Oh I agree, and don't expect to see any HD-DVD games anytime soon. However, you said it yourself. It is cheaper to produce HD-DVD, so they could actually do it sooner. MS can produce the games on HD-DVD much cheaper than you or I could buy blank media. Also, I think it's safe to assume that the price will go down over time(as does any tech) and it will become more feasible over time to use HD-DVD media for games. I'm just saying that it will be an option for MS a couple of years down the road. Also in a few years I'm sure the cost of the add-on will drop as well becoming an even more attainable device, so I think we may see the option of using HD-DVD for games.

Again, I see all this as good. Games will get bigger, it's just a given. With HD content, and more high quality audio used in each game, there is only so much compression one can do. Just like 1 floppy wasn't enough, and led to multiple floppies, then CDs and DVDs.

I would like to see the integrated HD-DVD player in the 360 just for that purpose. That and the add-on, while it does provide decent HD-DVD playback (I have used a couple of Toshiba models as well), can be a bit unsightly in some entertainment centers. Purely asthetic, but still an issue to some.


RE: Good all the way around
By UNCjigga on 10/22/2007 10:56:35 AM , Rating: 4
Read between the lines--MS and Toshiba will NOT be positioning this new device as another Xbox 360 SKU--it sounds like they've got broader plans. From the article it sounds like this will be a completely different device, without the iconic look of the Xbox 360 (probably a horizontal device to integrate with other home theater components.)

Rather than selling this as an Xbox, they'll probably position it as a Toshiba entertainment hub with HD-DVD, IPTV, DVR and Media Center Extender (oh and it also plays X360 games.) I wouldn't be surprised if this new device incorporated a larger hard drive for DVR and IPTV (remember the AT&T deal in the works?) and MS will probably launch it with an expanded online media catalog (imagine the MS version of iTunes with WMV HD content.)

RE: Good all the way around
By Locutus465 on 10/22/2007 11:20:36 AM , Rating: 2
You mean video market place?

RE: Good all the way around
By UNCjigga on 10/22/2007 12:35:22 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly, but with a *LOT* more content. And I'm not sure they'll keep the Video Marketplace interface if it isn't a true "Xbox" device--they might change the UI and make it more consumer-friendly.

RE: Good all the way around
By Locutus465 on 10/22/2007 1:03:22 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed, they could use more content... Really not sure what MS is waiting on since it's a great service otherwise... Season 4 of enterprise would be nice :( And if they go ahold of battlestar in HD... oooo that would be nice...

RE: Good all the way around
By kristof007 on 10/22/2007 1:16:26 PM , Rating: 2
Haha 1080. I think this is going to be a good move and shows planning on Microsofts' part. They excluded from the machine therefore being able to make the 360 cheaper then the PS3. I definitely think that they will use multiple DVDs if they have to.

I just bought the Orange Box for the PC and that has 5 games on 2 DVDs. So yea I think the multiple DVD-9 format is definitely feasible.

RE: Good all the way around
By KiDDGuY on 10/22/07, Rating: -1
RE: Good all the way around
By Egglick on 10/22/2007 8:57:01 AM , Rating: 4
I agree. A game on HD-DVD would be unusable on all older X360 models. They'll never do it.

RE: Good all the way around
By totallycool on 10/22/2007 9:47:31 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, But then they could do an dual format release. Just for the sake of pushing HD-DVD.

What i am saying is microsoft has many options with hddvd, without breaking the old 360s

RE: Good all the way around
By softwiz on 10/22/2007 10:20:17 AM , Rating: 2
Why would it be unusable?

Couldn't you just purchase the add-on to solve that problem?

If there was a dashboard update necessary, then you'd just download and apply it. For those unable to download it, you'd likely use a disc.

If people decide that they shouldn't have to or don't want to purchase the add-on separately then those are separate issues.

RE: Good all the way around
By daftrok on 10/22/2007 11:20:13 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah lets make the consumer cough up 179 bucks added to their console just to play games in the future. Even MS isn't that retarded.

RE: Good all the way around
By Locutus465 on 10/22/2007 11:23:21 AM , Rating: 2
There's already a decent number of HD-DVD add ons in the market place, so it wouldn't be as bad as say... the PS2 hard drive... Providing the option would be nothing but good... This could only be bad if MS started mandating all games be released on HD-DVD... But allowing for an HD-DVD Halo 3 Ultimite Limited Edition wouldn't be bad (and would scew HD-DVD media charts)...

RE: Good all the way around
By timmiser on 10/22/2007 5:34:30 PM , Rating: 2
All the HD-DVD drive for the Xbox 360 is is a pass through HD player. Games don't work on it and there is no reason to think that an HD-DVD would work on this drive as far as I can tell. I believe they would need to redesign the Xbox 360HD with an integrated HD-DVD drive to get HD-DVD games to work on it.

RE: Good all the way around
By Locutus465 on 10/22/2007 11:39:16 PM , Rating: 2
This drive operates as an optical drive like any other? Perhaps your confusing the fact that it can't operate as a stand alone player? The way HD-Playback works with the drive is the 360 uses it to read off HD-DVD information, then processes the video/audio using the buit in 3 core IBM processor... No reason in the world why it can't read game data off the drive..

RE: Good all the way around
By timmiser on 10/23/2007 2:35:02 PM , Rating: 2
I was a bit unclear, my point is that if they make an integrated HD-DVD drive in the X360 and then start making games on HD-DVD discs, those of us with the HD-DVD add on drive still won't be able to play the HD-DVD game.

RE: Good all the way around
By softwiz on 10/22/2007 1:43:06 PM , Rating: 2
I can't see it being any worse than Sega selling the 32X Genesis add-on. If you wanted to play the CD based games, you had to pony up. Before any one suggests that why it failed, I disagree. Sega had bigger problems than this.

It sounds like you feel you should be entitled to make use of anything either MS or a third party put on the market in the future. Unfortunately reality doesn't work that way.

When you buy a product, you're paying for what the manufacturer claims the product can do at that time. Any additional functionality added for free is a bonus but you shouldn't feel entitled to it since it likely was never promised at the time of purchase. To think otherwise seems rather spoiled IMO. However, if they simply stopped making DVD based games altogether then that I'd agree that would be bad but until that happens complaining about it is fairly unnecessary.

RE: Good all the way around
By Locutus465 on 10/22/2007 10:56:05 AM , Rating: 2
It would be silly of MS not to allow games to be released on HD-DVD... This would take care of the UT3 issue, at least the storage issue... Epic is still trying to claim that PS3 is some how more open than X-Box, but frankely I'm a little dubious of that claim considering anyone in the world can develop and distribute x-box games for a very low yearly fee... Considering MS went that far I have a very hard time beleiving they're giving epic a hard time with user editable game maps (Halo 3 anyone?)

Over all this is going to be a good move for MS, if they can integrate HD-DVD and keep prices constant it will really put the PS3 down another notch which is nothing but good for Microsoft Game Studios. I'm not sure whether or not this stradegy will help out Toshiba or not though... Perhaps a bit in that people buying the x-box for might then decided "what the heck, I'll get movies"... But the reason why PS3 is helping BlueRay so much is because it's still the cheapest Blueray player... On the HD side you can already get the A2 for less than the cost of a Core system ($250).

RE: Good all the way around
By Locutus465 on 10/22/2007 10:58:26 AM , Rating: 2
Ah... Though I did just have one thought... When they're tallying up Blueray v. HD-DVD sales do they include games released in that media? If so there's a huge reason to start releasing games on HD-DVD right there.

RE: Good all the way around
By Guyver on 10/22/2007 8:23:40 AM , Rating: 2
Major role in the format skirmish you mean? I love how people blow things out of proportion and the media keeps going along with it.

Last I heard 300 broke all the HD sales records which was ridiculously hyped. Why ridiculous? HD-DVD and Blu-Ray sales combined accounted for 5% of all disc sales for 300.

Maybe by Christmas this skirmish will actually turn into a war and Sony's gamble with including features most gamers could care less about will actually pay off. With a 5:1 advantage of standalone player sales over HD-DVD (including PS3s), it's not surprising to see a 2:1 disc sales lead when you have lots of bored gamers waiting on a Halo 3 killer for their platform.

With lackluster interest due to pricing and blue ray diode shortages, I'm a bit cynical when I see anyone hyping how PS3 has managed to be such a major role when it was also reported that 1% of HDTV owners actually own a HD player.

RE: Good all the way around
By Guyver on 10/22/2007 8:24:58 AM , Rating: 2
Ooops, meant to say "With a 5:1 advantage of HD player sales..."

RE: Good all the way around
By FITCamaro on 10/22/2007 8:54:24 AM , Rating: 2
360 games won't be on HD-DVD. They wouldn't require gamers to go out and buy a different optical drive to play the games. Require gamers to have a hard drive? Perhaps. But not a completely different optical drive.

Games don't need to be 25-50GB anyway. The best games on PC still are under the 9GB installed range. High resolution textures don't make good games. Most are typically 6-8GB still. I think Crysis is supposed to be something like 12GB right? If so that'll be the biggest single player game to date.

Now in the next generation of consoles, I'm sure the next Xbox will have an HD-DVD or Bluray drive, depending on who wins the format war.

RE: Good all the way around
By Gul Westfale on 10/22/2007 10:57:34 AM , Rating: 2
finally they are going to do what they should have done with the elite systems from the very beginning.

RE: Good all the way around
By SigmaHyperion on 10/22/2007 11:04:40 AM , Rating: 3
Actually, FITCamaro, there are a number of PC games that are multiple-DVDs and/or require install sizes of greater than 10GB.

Stranglehold is, IIRC, 16GB installed. Most of the Medieval: Total War games are 10-12GB installed. I'm sure there's more that I can't think off the top of my head. I know I've installed numerous multiple-DVD games in the past.

And of course the granddaddy of them all -- Flight Simulator X which requires some 16GB just to do a normall install. If you install add-on scenery packs (as many do) those can range in excess of 5GB just for the textures of a single metropolitan area.

Rumor has it that when Lost Odyssey hits the X360 it will require as many as 4 DVDs. But, yes, overall I agree that game sizes are largely unconstrained by disc space. Nor is that additional space somehow required to make a game a good one.

RE: Good all the way around
By GaryJohnson on 10/22/2007 11:30:19 AM , Rating: 2
They wouldn't require gamers to go out and buy a different optical drive to play the games.

I agree that is an incredibly stupid idea but it has happened in the past. Didn't the Sega Genesis have something like 4 different formats that each required a different add-on?

A shortage of usability experts has created an abundance of useless products.

RE: Good all the way around
By darkpaw on 10/22/2007 11:58:51 AM , Rating: 2
Sega CD and Sega 32x, both miserable failrues.

Add-ons don't really work for gamers, especially if they are required.

RE: Good all the way around
By MrPickins on 10/22/2007 12:07:46 PM , Rating: 2
I agree that is an incredibly stupid idea but it has happened in the past. Didn't the Sega Genesis have something like 4 different formats that each required a different add-on?

Which is exactly why it won't happen again.
Large companies stay profitable by learning from the past.

RE: Good all the way around
By rsasp on 10/22/2007 12:01:59 PM , Rating: 1
Just so you know that, if HD DVD player is built in, Xbox 360 will have shorter life span.

"We can't expect users to use common sense. That would eliminate the need for all sorts of legislation, committees, oversight and lawyers." -- Christopher Jennings

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