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Print E-mail del.icio.us 90 comment(s) - last by Reclaimer77.. on May 11 at 8:12 PM
Microsoft preps 65nm GPU for cooler Xbox 360s

Chip process evolution is a usual thing in a console’s lifecycle, but rarely has it been as important as in the case of the Xbox 360.

Known for its relatively hardware fragility, the original design of the Xbox 360 would frequently fall to the “Red Ring of Death” failure, which Microsoft terms as the three flashing red lights. While improvements in cooling and a CPU die shrink to 65nm in the Falcon revision have surely improved the situation, the problematic GPU still sits with its 90nm process.

The 65nm drop for the GPU in the Xbox 360 revision codenamed Jasper isn’t expected until August, a time frame backed up by a report from CENS. Microsoft has contracted Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC), Advanced Semiconductor Engineering Inc. (ASE) and Nanya PCB Corp. to build the chips that will ship with the Jasper consoles later this summer.

TSMC will produce the 65nm chips, ASE will package and test them, and Nanya will supply the flip-chip packaging substrates. Microsoft has supposedly booked a production capacity at TSMC estimated to be at around 10,000 300mm wafers.

Inventory of the existing Falcon chips are reportedly depleted, paving the way for the transition to Jasper. The next step for the Xbox 360 console is dubbed “Valhalla,” which will integrate both the GPU and CPU in a single package as a cost-cutting measure, isn’t expected until a year after Jasper.

Comments     Threshold


Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By bgm063 on 5/9/2008 12:24:09 AM , Rating: 5
Although I'm a proud PS3 owner, I'd glad to see MS is really cleaning up their own mess and really working to improve what was initially a flawed design.

If only Falcon and Jasper were available in Xbox360s at launch... Oh well, let's just count this blessing and move on...




RE: Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By weskurtz0081 on 5/9/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By powerofpi on 5/9/2008 12:49:08 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
so, nothing they could have done to have it at launch other than delay the launch.


I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. MS could have gone with a less hot and power hungry gpu design that was more realistic for their 90nm process. They made a choice, and up until August they will have to feel the ramifications of it.


RE: Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By SiN on 5/9/2008 3:43:35 AM , Rating: 5
I thought the RROD problems are more to do with ROHS and ignorance on MS part. Part of what your saying, but not the whole story. The other part would be bad cooling design.

I still can't beleive that hardware engineers would have overlooked the heat threshold of the new solder material. Bit of a joke, but that was the RROD for you.

I went through 4 Xbox's. I think.


RE: Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By yacoub on 5/9/08, Rating: 0
RE: Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By SiN on 5/9/2008 8:57:38 AM , Rating: 5
Either your sarcastic or you didn't read my post correctly. GPU + CPU heat was to be expected. The cooling design was flawed.


RE: Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By OrSin on 5/9/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By robinthakur on 5/9/2008 10:37:50 AM , Rating: 5
I'm not sure how much you can blame Microsoft for this, as the design is farmed out to sub-contractors who then design the cooling system board layouts etc like Asus or TMSC. The PS3 cooling design, for example was not, developed by Sony in house. However, If I were considering putting my company's name on a product I'd make damn sure it wasn't basically flawed because that's just PR suicide. Don't be surprised when next generation early Xboxes sell worse on launch day because people aren't going to forget this experience...

I would imagine the majority of input MS had was from the specs perspective and designing the outer shell of the console plus other key requirements like cost, architecture and of course building the OS.

Ms is not stupid enough to *set out* to design a console that will fail due to heat, but in being overly aggressive in terms of the specs which they wanted from lower yield chips and the need to run more voltage through them to compensate for this they are ultimately responsible for the way in which this turned out. Failure specs are well known (or should be) well before a product gets put on sale to the consumer. Their handling of the situation (still) does not say to me "We've radically altered the design to fix the cause of the problem." It says "Our product will likely fail due to defective manufacturing/design, when it does fail, if its within 3 years, we will pay to send you out another previously defective console which we fixed!" Why don't they just recall the early models? Because it would again be pr suicide.

Corners were cut and we're left with a situation now where people's faith in MS to design a reliable console is severely dented to this day.


RE: Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By Locutus465 on 5/9/2008 10:44:06 AM , Rating: 3
I'm not sure what to think about this... I can't say your point is invalid, it is entirly valid. However the 360 has maintained (and still does) an advantage on gaming content. Additionally it's extreamly clear that 360 owners buy games and play them, more so than PS3 or Wii owners. So at the end of the day I could see the end user experience (while the console is functioning) winning out. Plus there's the fact that microsoft isn't a stupid company, I think we can all feel assured that microsoft won't be one to repeat a mistake.


RE: Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By BladeVenom on 5/9/2008 11:07:18 AM , Rating: 1
360 owners buy 4.7 games per year, while PS3 owners buy 4.6 games per year. Hardly a difference worth mentioning. The only advantage the 360 has is it has been out a year longer.


RE: Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By Reclaimer77 on 5/9/2008 11:53:59 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
360 owners buy 4.7 games per year, while PS3 owners buy 4.6 games per year. Hardly a difference worth mentioning. The only advantage the 360 has is it has been out a year longer.


I can barely think of 4.6 games total worth playing for the PS3. More games total are sold for the 360 and you can keep that crutch argument of how long its been out if it makes you sleep better at night.

Heat issues. Reliability issues. No current Blu-Ray support, and its still kicking the PS3's ass. I bet that really gets to you people apparently.


RE: Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By Aloonatic on 5/9/2008 12:10:07 PM , Rating: 2
That's the sort of post that you I just love DT for and always brings a smile to my face.

A years head start always helps with sales numbers of course, and people having to buy another machine because their old one has died doesn't seem to have done the figures any harm either. (yes, not ever RROD xBox360 was replaced under warranty)

I must admit that the games sales rate does seem a little high when you consider the attachment rates, but again you will notice that they stated per year

There are plenty of games out there to buy if you want to for both consoles (and that other one from Nintendo) and you have the funds.

One last thing, PS3 has (apparently) taken over the xBox in europe, which you could argue is the only even playing field in the "console wars"

No jingoistic purchasing patterns as found in the US and Japan with teh xBox and PS3 respectively.

In Japan the PS3 is kicking the xBox's virtual ass I believe?

I don't really care however, I have all 3 of the latest consoles so it matter's little to me :p

I sleep like a log =D


By omnicronx on 5/9/2008 1:27:59 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
In Japan the PS3 is kicking the xBox's virtual ass I believe?
In Japan the Wii is kicking the PS3's and the 360's butt.. They have only sold 2 million PS3s in Japan, considering the success of the PS2, and that Sony is a Japanese company, I would consider that territory a total flop for sony.


RE: Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By murphyslabrat on 5/9/2008 12:20:28 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
MS is not stupid enough to design a console that would fail.

quote:
I bet that really gets to you people apparently.


I am glad to see the MS fanboys are here in strength, but the PS3 fanboys are taking their sweet time.


RE: Gotta Appreciate The Second Effort
By Reclaimer77 on 5/9/2008 12:32:28 PM , Rating: 3
Actually I don't even own a 360. I'm just tired of the PS3 kiddies spewing all kinds of crap ( 33% failure rate ) and jumping at every opportunity to slam MS and the 360 with their own inflated sense of consumer pride or whatever is driving them.

I think its just overcompensation when someone can't just be happy with what they have and feel a need to ruin something for everyone else.

I mean really, look at who gets downrated into oblivion on these threads. If all the MS fanbois are here in strength, why does every rational pro 360 person have a 1 or 0 ?

And those poor Wii guys. I love how the PS3 crowd on DT flames them into the pits of hell for daring to buy a cheap little fun console and having the audacity to talk about it. The idea that someone could enjoy a console not built around Blu-Ray is apparently revolting to some 'gamers'.

I can understand, not condone, Ms haters. But I think its kind of hypocritical to be an MS hater while singing the praises of a Sony product. To use a laymans term, Sony is every bit the 'douchebag' that MS is.


By Locutus465 on 5/9/2008 1:22:55 PM , Rating: 3
Excellent post... Really there are fanboi's on both sides of the high def console "war" (nintendo thus far seems to not suffer this problem) and they're all irritating.


By BladeVenom on 5/9/2008 2:10:47 PM , Rating: 2
You're the one taking it personally. I don't even own a PS3.


By deeznuts on 5/9/2008 3:45:52 PM , Rating: 2