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The Xbox 360 Elite will come with one matching black wireless controller and headset. Black controllers, headsets and batteries will also be available in stores.

The new Xbox 360 Elite retail packaging.
Microsoft's new Xbox 360 Elite features a 120GB HDD, HDMI output and a $479.99 price tag

After months of unofficial information, Microsoft today has finally pulled the cover off its upgraded console—the Xbox 360 Elite. Corroborating on all previous information, the Xbox 360 Elite will feature a 120GB hard disk drive, up from 20GB in the ‘Premium’ console, and an HDMI output for connection to high-definition televisions.

The new upgraded Microsoft system will be easily distinguishable from the current Xbox 360 consoles by its color—the Xbox 360 Elite will come in a premium black finish for the console, wireless controller and Xbox Live headset. Additional Xbox 360 Elite accessories, such as the black Xbox 360 Wireless Controller, Xbox 360 Play & Charge kit and the Xbox 360 rechargeable battery, will be available separately.

 “Today’s games and entertainment enthusiast has an insatiable appetite for digital high-definition content,” said Peter Moore, corporate vice president for the Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft. “Xbox 360 Elite’s larger hard drive and premium accessories will allow our community to enjoy all that the next generation of entertainment has to offer.”

Xbox 360 Elite will have an estimated retail price of $479.99 and is expected to begin arriving in U.S. stores on April 29. For existing Xbox 360 owners who simply want to upgrade their hard drives, the detachable accessory will be sold separately for an estimated retail price of $179.99.

The road leading up to the Xbox 360 Elite is a long and storied one. Whispers of a bigger hard drive—something that gamers have long demanded—started last fall when pictures of a 100GB HDD appeared in presentation materials for Korea. Shortly after, an 80GB HDD appeared in the flesh at a Microsoft press event pushing the Xbox Live Video Marketplace.

What started off with rumors of a bigger hard drive morphed into rumblings of a more drastic hardware revision after pictures leaked in January of a prototype Xbox 360 with HDMI output and new scaling hardware. Microsoft’s Chris Satchell quickly responded saying, “At the moment, everything you might have seen is just looking at our experimentation back in Redmond, not really a product that we're thinking about announcing.”

After a couple months of silence, the rumor mill spun again after a gaming magazine leaked key details of an updated Xbox 360 console dressed in black. Then the very machines in question were snapped by a camera phone during their infancies on a Chinese production line. Finally, an XNA Developer made it all but official after replying to a question about coding on the new HDMI Xbox 360.

The shift to a smaller, cooler running Xbox 360 chips, however, is one thing that was unable to make it into the Xbox 360 Elite. Microsoft revealed plans nearly a year ago to shrink its current 90nm chips to the 65nm process, something that’s now slated for later this year.

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$179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By Hakuryu on 3/28/2007 1:55:55 AM , Rating: 4
I hate proprietary console hardware. Overpriced crap makes me stick with my PC.

I just built a Core 2 Duo system with 2 160GB hard drives... the drives were $53 each. For the same price as a 360 HDD, I can get 3+ larger drives for my PC. What in the world makes their hard drives so expensive? Is it just trying to make a buck?




RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By kelmon on 3/28/2007 2:36:18 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
What in the world makes their hard drives so expensive? Is it just trying to make a buck?


What do you think?


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By slashbinslashbash on 3/28/2007 2:46:37 AM , Rating: 5
Well, for one thing they use 2.5" notebook HDDs, so that bumps up the cost per GB. The cheapest 120GB 2.5" HDD that I can find on NewEgg is around $80.

As for the rest of the price, yeah, I guess MS is just trying to make a profit. The enclosure can't cost MS more than $10. And for $180 they'd better include a USB adapter to transfer files from the old 20GB drives. So I guess they're trying to make up for the loss they're taking on the Xbox360 console with a profit on the HDD upgrade.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By Spivonious on 3/28/2007 9:20:27 AM , Rating: 1
Plus it's theoretically an "external" hard drive.

The first one I found on Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... is $139.99. That makes $180 not too high of a markup.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By crimson117 on 3/28/2007 10:18:42 AM , Rating: 2
I then have to question the decision to use 2.5" drives... when you could have a 320GB external from the same company as that 2.5" you linked for $3 more!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

XBox 360 could have just had a standard USB port to attach another drive, and then you wouldn't have to get this proprietary thing.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By TheDoc9 on 3/28/2007 10:29:53 AM , Rating: 2
$180 not too high of a markup!!! HAHAHAHA This is price gouging at it's best, and micro$oft knows people like you will buy into it.

Now that the black x360 is out which is obviously a direct competitor to the ps3, I wonder how many people will sound off about the nearly $500 price tag. I wonder if it will be as many who complained about the ps3.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By darkpaw on 3/28/2007 1:18:40 PM , Rating: 4
I'm not a MS or Sony fan, but the $500 PS3 is basically non existant so it really needs to be compared to the 60gb version.

$500 is too high for the 360 though, if they update the premium to the new specs and lower the price on the old ones as rumored then it'll be worthwhile. I personally won't touch a 360 until the die shrink cpu goes in, assuming that solves the RoD problems. I'm not spending $300, $400, or $500 on something as problematic as the current 360.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By AntDX316 on 4/1/2007 5:19:49 AM , Rating: 1
whatever it takes to claim market share whatever it takes :)


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By deeznuts on 3/28/2007 12:48:04 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The first one I found on Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... is $139.99. That makes $180 not too high of a markup.


Until you take into account the $139.99 is already marked up????

Also agree with the 2.5"/3.5" comment. Why in the world did MS not just go with a 3.5" drive for these prices? More plentiful and it's external anyway. I guess the issue is with the internal drives on the Premium. One part is much easier to handle.

Still think MS is ripping people off but I'll be damned if I don't get one of these black ones. I already have a PS3 so maybe I won't, but I can't resist a black Xbox since I think the white one is ugly.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By Belard on 3/29/2007 4:15:37 AM , Rating: 2
Because the 3.5" Drive is heavier, bigger - requires more space and tend to make a bit more noise than a 2.5" Drive.

The 2.5 Drives also make less heat and require less power.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By BZDTemp on 3/29/2007 8:08:10 AM , Rating: 3
On the up side, apart from price, a 3.5" is much faster and as for power needs it's nothing compared to the chips in the 360.

I really do think SONY is much nicer about letting people hook up stuff to their hardware. On the PS/2 the used standard USB ports and not the non-standard USB ones as Microsoft did on the XBOX and this time around it's the same.

Heck SONY even describes in the PS3 manual how to replace the hard disc with one of your own choosing and they also support standard memory like SD and so on. Oh and they let you dual boot the PS3 so you can run Linux on the thing :-)


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By hands on 3/28/2007 1:35:05 PM , Rating: 1
I happen to own a brand-name 120GB portable (external, 2.5") hard drive that I purchased for $80 (direct cost--no rebates). Basically, it's at least equivalent to what MS is wanting to charge $180 for.

I don't care what you say. The markup on that drive is ridiculous.

Then again, so is the markup on most things related to consoles because they make most of their money on accessories and games.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By Spivonious on 3/28/2007 2:30:25 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Then again, so is the markup on most things related to consoles because they make most of their money on accessories and games.


Bingo. Why do you think an 8MB PS2 memory card still sells for $25? I just bought a 2GB SD card for $25. That would make an 8MB card cost about 10 cents.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By JeffDM on 4/1/2007 7:45:44 PM , Rating: 4
They sold you a subsidized machine though, so it's a trade-off whether or not you will admit it.

They lose a lot of money on the core unit, and the business model is to make up for it with accessories and game licenses.

I wouldn't be surprised if they lost a lot more than $100 on each 360 console, so really, you are still getting a good deal on the total package.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By semo on 3/28/2007 3:10:33 AM , Rating: 2
i think console makers always try to make profit on accessories. the ps2 8mb memory card has always been expensive but it's price today is simply incomprehensible. same for the xbox 360 memory card (talk about taking a step back, the xbox didn't have a mem card).

nintendo might have the cheapest next-gen home console today but the controller i think is the most expensive of them all.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By caqde on 3/28/2007 3:30:52 AM , Rating: 2
Your memory isn't serving you right there was an 8mb "memory unit" that went into the controllers for the Xbox. You can get one from amazon today for around $15US.

Otherwise I don't understand why microsoft needs the extra +-$80 for that 120gb harddrive. What are they giving it an awesome warrenty of over 5years? Is it gold plated??? Ah well all I know is they are reaming those that buy it....


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By xphile on 3/28/2007 6:03:06 AM , Rating: 5
If you open up the hard drive enclosure, remove the hard drive and open it, inside you will see the following label attached to the upper postion of the internal casing...

"Thank you for supporting the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Your donation is greatly appreciated. We are thrilled that you share our belief in striving for a common goal of bringing greatly improved health and learning to the global community. Please attach this half of your hard disk casing to your tax return to claim any rebates associated with your donation of:

US $127.58

With our sincerest thanks
Bill & Melinda Gates
(Saving the children to save the world... oh yeah and that cheerleader too!)

Or so I'm told - of course it could just be a rumour...


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By KaiserCSS on 3/28/2007 11:11:44 AM , Rating: 1
Hey, if someone's willing to scrap their new $180 hard drive, I'd love to see pictures proving this is true. But ya know, it would really, really irk me if I had donated to charity without being informed.

This reminds me of a Mitch Hedberg joke:

I went to a pizzeria, I ordered a slice of pizza, the f*cker gave me the smallest slice possible. If the pizza was a pie chart for what people would do if they found a million dollars, the f*cker gave me the "donate it to charity" slice. I would like to exchange this for the "keep it"!


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By Lazarus Dark on 3/28/2007 6:10:37 AM , Rating: 3
Well, the way I see it, the wiimote should be the most expensive controller to date. Nintendo spent like 50 percont of their R&D for the wii on the controller so it makes sense that they would charge more for the most advanced controller ever, it has bluetooth, IR, gyro and accelerometer, four things no controller has used before and getting the ir, gyro and accelerometer all to work in concert must have taken a lot of development.

As for storage, the wii has it up on the competition, it accepts industry standard 2gb sd cards which can be had for twenty bucks. Of course, the Wii branded sd cards cost like 99, but you'd have to be completely ignorant of technology to buy one, or just have cash coming out of your ears; neither of which applies to any gamer I know. Though it doesn't have a hard drive, maybe nintendo will be the first console company to actually allow you to use those frickin usb ports and support standard usb storage at some point, I don't expect MS to do that (obviously), and I couldn't care less about what sony does with theirs, I think if you can afford a 600 dollar console, you can afford a 180 dollar hard drive.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By Frank M on 3/28/2007 8:10:25 AM , Rating: 2
Hmmm.. your post got me wondering. Has anyone tried to create an adapter for the Wii remote to a PC? Is it possible, or does the Wii to the processing?


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By Matrinix on 3/28/2007 8:31:35 AM , Rating: 2
The Wii Remote uses Bluetooth to connect to the Wii, and if you sync it to a PC Bluetooth adapter it will be able to recognize the Wii Remote as a Bluetooth device. The only thing preventing the Wii Remote from being used on the PC is proper drivers which many people have attempted to make but none are dead on capatible.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By Kougar on 3/28/2007 9:07:49 AM , Rating: 2
Y'all might be interested in this then: http://www.wiili.org/index.php/Wiimote_driver

OS X, XP, Vista, it has links to drivers for all of them. I don't have a Wii so I can't verify how good they all are though... ;)


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By rykerabel on 3/28/2007 9:56:36 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
first console company to actually allow you to use those frickin usb ports and support standard usb storage
quote:
and I couldn't care less about what sony does with theirs

wow, hate Sony even though they have already done exactly what you are requesting. hell, sony even supports linux dual boot installation.

hope i don't need to point out that the $489 still doesn't include an HD-DVD or BR player.

(i like x360, but it just doesn't have any RPGs so no need)

hate sony's marketing mistakes, hate their hype, but the ps3 is actually rather nice.

prejudice is unbecoming.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By alifbaa on 3/28/2007 1:48:54 PM , Rating: 2
I hate Sony at least as much as anybody, but you have a point. Unfortunately, there just aren't a lot of games for the PS3 yet and the base 20GB model doesn't seem to actually exist. I have a wired Ethernet connection in my home, and have no need for the wireless connectivity. Paying $100 for an extra 40GB of hard drive space makes about as much sense to me as paying $180 for the 120GB HD on the 360 when you can pop in whatever HD you want with that money.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By bkiserx7 on 3/29/2007 10:56:39 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I think it would be a serious competitor to PS3 if had internal HD-Drive, 65nm processors, and the 120gb hard drive. Otherwise, I'll just stick with my ol' premium white 360 with external HD-Drive.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By deeznuts on 3/28/2007 12:53:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Though it doesn't have a hard drive, maybe nintendo will be the first console company to actually allow you to use those frickin usb ports and support standard usb storage at some point, I don't expect MS to do that (obviously), and I couldn't care less about what sony does with theirs, I think if you can afford a 600 dollar console, you can afford a 180 dollar hard drive.
Yeah, umm Sony already does that. You can't do game saves but you can attach external USB devices, USB thumbdrives, and oh yeah replace your HDD at your own will. Hate Sony cool, fine. I don't understand how someone can hate a company, but you have your right to. But you should be hating MS here, they are nickeling and diming their customers.

Oh yeah, nobody mentions the 20GB buyers who just got reamed. $100 for 20GB, $180 for 120GB. That sucks.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By Frank M on 3/28/2007 2:37:28 PM , Rating: 1
How did they get reamed? Did they think that MS would stop developing their product now that they had purchased theirs?


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By Aikouka on 3/28/2007 5:27:46 AM , Rating: 2
Well, comparatively, if you look at the price premium between the Core and the Premium XBOX 360 packages and the price of the 20GB HDD, they're equal (of course minus a penny). Do the same with the Core and the Elite XBOX 360 packages and the price of the 120GB HDD, they're equal (of course minus a penny).

They've essentially kept the same pricing for the 120GB that they had for the 20GB HDD, although I think most fans/gamers clamored that it was too much then and I doubt their opinion is going to change much.


By Misty Dingos on 3/28/2007 7:58:52 AM , Rating: 3
Record this statement, then convert it to an MP3 file, then copy the file into your MP3 player (that means an IPOD for you folks in California).

"I love my Xbox 360. It is the only way to have fun. If the Holy Microsoft makes a new system I will buy it too. Consoles are the only way to game. Holy Microsoft has given me this truth. I hear and OBEY. I love Microsoft and no amount of mere money is too much."

Stuff in your ear buds when you sleep (if you sleep) and perhaps in a few weeks you will start to believe the hype. Oh for you Sony Kinders.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By Frank M on 3/28/2007 8:06:28 AM , Rating: 2
Didn't they sell 360's at a loss? Well, they have to make their money back somewhere, and accessories will always be one of the best places to do it.

All electronics manufacturers know this, even when it's not proprietary, they'll always try to overcharge you. Look for a DVI, HDMI, or Component cable in a Best Buy, and all that you'll see is $60 "Monster" cables. Accessories are always one of their biggest profit margins.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By TheDoc9 on 3/28/2007 10:46:26 AM , Rating: 1
Don't let 'selling for a loss' fool you. That number is derived from years of R&D, programing, and advertising. It has nothing to do with the cost to actually mass produce the console and get it in stores. Those costs are paid for every year from the companies other ventures. It's main purpose if for mass media sites and to help people justify the high price.

Don't think for one second that any company would actually GIVE you something material for nothing. Plus no one actually knows the true cost anyway, it's all speculation released by a third party which was likely contracted by microsoft/sony themselves!

While it's true that they tend to make money off accessories mainly, it doesn't mean that they're trying to 'recover' lost money, it doesn't make the high prices ok, nor does it mean that you should buy them.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By JeffDM on 4/1/2007 8:03:12 PM , Rating: 2
Nobody said that you had to buy these things. We're just explaining several of the reasons why accessories seem expensive.

The problem with your argument is that eventually, the XBox division has to make all those other expenses back, I don't think it's made a net profit yet. You don't just assume that it's worth other MS divisions to subsidize a money losing division, business doesn't work that way in the long run. The cost of the core machine is more than just the cost of parts and assembly. Why you want to rule them out is beyond me, R&D and advertising are expenses that have to be paid for too, they don't just automatically disappear from the balance sheet just because you don't like them.

My suggestion is to just not buy into any consoles.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By BladeVenom on 3/28/2007 8:42:09 AM , Rating: 2
$179 for a 120GB Hard Drive? And the Xbox only comes with a one year warranty. Console gaming is just too expensive for me.

Looks like have to go cheap and get a $139.99 for a 500GB HD with a 5 year warranty at the Egg.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By Oregonian2 on 3/28/2007 1:14:00 PM , Rating: 1
2.5" 500GB drives are $140 at newegg? They've one on sale today for that price, but that's a 3.5" one. 2.5" ones are usually more expensive. How much is a 500Gb 2.5" drive there?

Biggest 2.5" drive I see at newegg is only 160Gb and it's $150 + shipping.

http://tinyurl.com/2rlk5p

Wonder if uSoft went to the smaller drive to give a bit more airflow room in their box (and probably less power consumed). Seem to recall it ran rather toasty. They may be power/heat limited with the current power supply design.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By drebo on 3/28/2007 10:37:12 AM , Rating: 1
Why is it that everyone who complains about the price of console gaming/accessories sounds like a spoiled 16-year-old whose mommy won't shell out another $200 just to make you happy?

Just an observation. Companies charge what they charge for a reason, and it has nothing to do with the price of OEM hard drives on Newegg.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By TheDoc9 on 3/28/2007 1:59:57 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe it's because those 16 year olds, with very few exceptions, don't like to knowingly get shafted.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By yacoub on 3/28/2007 3:57:09 PM , Rating: 2
"[The price they charge for the HD] has nothing to do with the price of OEM hard drives on Newegg."

Uh why the hell not? You can bet they're getting an even better deal on the price of the drives they're buying in bulk than even NewEgg is.

You are directly comparing two items the buyer can purchase. That's exactly how you demonstrate how much one is over-priced.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By drebo on 3/29/2007 1:09:06 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
You can bet they're getting an even better deal on the price of the drives they're buying in bulk than even NewEgg is.


That may be the case, but you're not buying an OEM drive from Microsoft. You're buying an enclosed drive with accessories like the data transfer cable, whatever proprietary interface Microsoft has created for itself, any software that ships on the drive to make the Xbox run, R&D, QA, manufacturing, etc.

My point is that the vast majority of people who complain about price have absolutely no concept of what actually goes in to making a product, making that product work, and selling it. Microsoft has to make a profit somewhere. Microsoft's price has to be higher than the combined total of the direct material cost to make the item (i.e. the hard drive, the plastic case, etc) AND the indirect and overhead costs associated with manufacturing, rent, advertising, and salaries.

Believe it or not, but Microsoft's marketing team isn't stupid. They don't price gouge in order to make a quick buck on a product so low ticket. They've carefully analyzed both how much it costs to manufacture the item (which is more than the sum of the parts which go into it) and what the intended market might be willing to pay for it. They're charging this price for a reason, and it isn't going to be greed. Microsoft has more than enough cash on hand to GIVE Xbox 360 Elites to all current Xbox and Xbox 360 owners. They don't need to gouge a $189 part.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By darkpaw on 3/29/2007 9:25:13 AM , Rating: 2
The thing is they can though. Accessories have always been where the money is made. In most cases I'd agree with your points, but there is esentially zero development and advertising cost for this bigger hdd. Its just swaping the internals of the old hdd and updating the bios to accept the new drive.

Thats it.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By darkpaw on 3/29/2007 9:29:18 AM , Rating: 2
Meant swapping whats inside the casing, not the internals of the hdd itself.

This is really no different then any other overpriced speciality hard drive, the computer industry has been doing this for years. I remember DEC canister drives, they just had a regular 2gb SCSI drive inside the can, but they cost 4x as much because of the stupid canister. Speciality conectors exist for the sole purpose of screwing the consumer. There would never be a reason to make non standard connectors unless you intend to jack up the price.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By drebo on 3/29/2007 10:24:48 AM , Rating: 1
Then I guess you'll just have to go through life constantly afraid that you're getting fucked out of every purchase you make, because EVERY company marks things up above the cost of the parts.

And you'll just have to do without.

Atleast until you learn how businesses work, anyway.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By darkpaw on 3/29/2007 1:21:09 PM , Rating: 2
I'm quite aware of how businesses work, I helped run a small electronics company for several years.

There is a reason that standards exist and they give consumers a choice in what products they use. Taking a standard device (hard drive) and wrapping a specialty enclosure around it completely eliminates the purpose of standarization to begin with and allows for overpricing of a standard component. Sure MS has the right to do that, its their product. For once Sony actually has the better approach though.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By Belard on 3/30/2007 7:11:28 AM , Rating: 2
Well... the PS3 has a HD bay - which is user accessable without voiding the warranty.

You can go to newegg and buy whatever size drive you want (standard 2.5" of course):
http://dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4911

Current prices: $90 = 120gb 5400rpm drive... about $100 cheaper than the M$-user add-on.


RE: $179 for a 120GB Hard Drive?
By JeffDM on 4/1/2007 7:52:52 PM , Rating: 2
You have to pay a lot more to get the PS3 though.


PS3 is worth it more
By aurareturn on 3/28/2007 12:43:00 AM , Rating: 3
The $500 PS3 comes with a Blu-Ray drive so I'd give the bang for the buck to the PS3 at this segment.




RE: PS3 is worth it more
By daftrok on 3/28/2007 12:52:00 AM , Rating: 2
True, and you can upgrade the HDD to any size you wish (and with an adapter even use 3.5" HDD, you can thank Anandtech for showing us that). Though I really wish on the PS3 they had just one console like the Wii and make it $499.99. Just give us a 20 GB HDD, b/g (pre-n?, maybe a also) wireless and no card reader (seriously its got 4 USB ports just plug in your camera to it). Or even further to save costs, have 100% software emulation from the beginning and no emotion engine, and simply put in a scaling chip so that you can upscale anything with ease. That would have been the bang for your buck right there.


RE: PS3 is worth it more
By caqde on 3/28/2007 3:37:12 AM , Rating: 3
I agree with you on everything but the software emulation... As a programmer I would say that is one hell of a project.. They probably couldn't reliably create that in time for lauch. (as proof EU's PS3) Such a task of emulating hardware even something you have all of the specs for is a pain in the behind especially as it gets more complex. I expect that in a year or two that the PS2/PS1 emulation for the PS3 will be at 95%+. Expect the next gen consoles emulation for this generation to be even worse at the beginning......


RE: PS3 is worth it more
By semo on 3/28/2007 1:52:50 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
“Today’s games and entertainment enthusiast has an insatiable appetite for digital high-definition content,”...“Xbox 360 Elite’s larger hard drive and premium accessories will allow our community to enjoy all that the next generation of entertainment has to offer.”
there is one thing i've agreed with sony on xbox360 criticism. that thing is that they're doing disservice to their consumers by offering no hdd in the core system. also, the 20gb offering is just laughable given all the content available on xbox live.

even with this new 120gb version, ms is still not making the sweetest mass storage deal


RE: PS3 is worth it more
By FITCamaro on 3/28/2007 8:18:24 AM , Rating: 3
20GB is more than enough for those of us who just want to play games and don't care about downloading stuff. It's not like 500MB patches are coming out for 360 games.


RE: PS3 is worth it more
By semo on 3/28/2007 8:45:59 AM , Rating: 3
well "those of you" can continue using your small part of 20gb drive and nobody is stopping you. for those of us that need more storage, until now, there was no practical option.


RE: PS3 is worth it more
By crimson117 on 3/28/2007 10:23:35 AM , Rating: 2
Can someone tell me the use of a hard drive on the XBox 360?

Is it for downloading entire games? Or for downloading "expansion pack" type things, like new golf course for a golf game?

Are these usually free or do you have to purchase them?


RE: PS3 is worth it more
By bldckstark on 3/28/2007 12:48:37 PM , Rating: 2
Game saves are done on the HDD, as well as dowloaded information from X-Box Live, like games, demos, movies, TV shows, patches, updates and expansions. They usually cost money, but not always. You can also download gamertag ID pics and backgrounds.


RE: PS3 is worth it more
By semo on 3/28/2007 3:22:11 PM , Rating: 2
what he said.

also remember that 20gb hdd doesn't mean 20gb of user data. add to that the fact that some people either have slow internet connection (bad area) or limited download allowance (bad deal?) which makes it harder for the to just delete stuff they're not using now and perhaps download again at a later date.


RE: PS3 is worth it more
By darkpaw on 3/28/2007 1:38:55 PM , Rating: 2
If you can find a $500 PS3. Sony isn't really giving much of a choice there.

While looking for a Wii I've also been keeping my eyes out for a 20gb PS3, which I might actually consider buying. Every store I've been too except one has had

0 Wii
0 20gb PS3
2+ 60gb PS3

and the last store had none (they just sucked in general, the only console they actually had in stock was a gamecube).


RE: PS3 is worth it more
By Zoomer on 3/29/2007 11:59:17 PM , Rating: 2
And people were claiming that there were "mountains" of ps3s sitting on store shelves. Maybe I should've enlocsed people with quotation marks.


Temporary price?
By OddTSi on 3/28/2007 1:56:51 AM , Rating: 2
Am I the only one that gets the feeling this is just a temporary price while they make the switch to 65nm.




RE: Temporary price?
By cheetah2k on 3/28/2007 4:31:27 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah, the additional premium of the Elite must be paying for that fab change to 65nm.

If they charged US$599 with a native HD-DVD drive, it would be well worth it, and would screw with PS3 wannabe's ;-p


RE: Temporary price?
By Goty on 3/28/07, Rating: 0
RE: Temporary price?
By alifbaa on 3/28/2007 1:59:21 PM , Rating: 1
Because it's hardly "getting its butt kicked." The reason BR is currently slightly in the lead is because of the PS3. I agree with the previous poster. Adding an HD-DVD or making it less than $100 would make things very interesting. The reason they aren't doing that is because M$ has much less of a stake in HD-DVD than Sony has in BR. Worst case scenario for M$: If HD-DVD fails, M$ makes tons of money selling add on future combo players that still get them royalties for HD-DVD in addition to the profit off the player sales themselves. M$ doesn't care nearly as much in the end, so there is no incentive for them to reduce profit margins on their console line for the sake of another line that benefits other companies more than themselves.


RE: Temporary price?
By Goty on 3/28/2007 4:49:37 PM , Rating: 2
First of all, I don't think sales figures showing Blu-Ray outselling HD-DVD two to one would be considered "slightly" in the lead. Second, who cares if Blu-Ray is in the lead because of the PS3? The PS3 is a full-blown Blu-Ray player, so it's a legitimate Blu-Ray platform.

Arguing that Blu-Ray is only in the lead is a sad excuse, at best.

Also, I'm not saying that MS should have included a native drive for any platform other than DVD; the add-on is still the way to go for their sales model. I think you're getting just a little bit defensive.


RE: Temporary price?
By alifbaa on 3/28/2007 11:26:24 PM , Rating: 2
Did you know that 63% of statistics are made up on the spot?


RE: Temporary price?
By doctor sam adams on 3/29/2007 2:36:43 AM , Rating: 2
No, it's more like 7%.


RE: Temporary price?
By therealnickdanger on 3/28/2007 8:23:16 AM , Rating: 1
It's been rather well known (i.e.: rumored but not confirmed) that Microsoft has been profitable with the Xbox360 hardware for several months now. That, combined with their current dominance over the PS3, will prompt them to keep their higher price-point for a while. But they can't let the Wii have complete dominance either - even if they aren't really running the same race.

I'm just guessing, but I'm pretty sure that we'll see 65nm and HDMI in every flavor of Xbox360 by February 2008, plus price drops on the Core ($279) and Pro ($349), then the Elite later ($449). I think they'll attempt to narrow the gap between Core and Pro, to get people away from being HDD-less.


I was all ready to trade up...
By Phillycat on 3/28/2007 1:29:07 AM , Rating: 2
But if the 'elite' model still has those hot 90nm chips, I'll wait until next year. Why not delay bringing this model out until the die shrink and halo 3 come out? That way they could easily phase out the core and drop this into the premiums price spot and drop the price on the premium. Makes sense to me, but what do I know, I'm just a consumer.




By slashbinslashbash on 3/28/2007 2:40:56 AM , Rating: 2
I agree. If this one had the 65nm chip then I'd go ahead and buy it even though it seems like a bit of a ripoff. By this point there are plenty of Xbox360 games that I want to play. As it is, with no 65nm in the Elite, I'm still going to wait.


RE: I was all ready to trade up...
By rykerabel on 3/28/2007 10:05:47 AM , Rating: 1
the 90nm cpu is not that hot, its the GPU that is so freaking hot in the xbox 360. (its the best console GPU currently)


By encryptkeeper on 3/28/2007 12:28:15 PM , Rating: 2
Hey the picture of that black 360 has a green ring, shouldn't it be red to be more accurate to the real thing?


By Dgacioch on 3/28/2007 1:36:46 AM , Rating: 3
If the stories are true and this "elite" unit is going to replace the current premium unit with a higher price point they have just given the ps3 the opening it needs in the high end market. With a 200 dollar price disadvantage, the ps3 looked overpriced. Now thats been narrowed to 120 it starts to look reasonable. Especially considering you get wireless connectivity and a next gen movie player to go along with it. If your trying to pass off your console off as a 400 dollar home entertainment device, which i think microsoft is attempting to do, not having hddvd or wireless built in at this price point is going to kill them.

Sony will gain market share with this, but Nintendo is going to kill them both. I really find it hard to believe that the execs at both companies think theres enough market share for them to move units at over 400 dollars a pop before a single piece of software gets bought. Especially now with so much competition in the marketplace. Didnt the big "n"'s shellacking of both of them over christmas teach these guys anything?




By Ard on 3/28/2007 4:09:40 AM , Rating: 2
They're not. The Elite model is a permanent SKU in the 360 lineup.


By cheetah2k on 3/28/2007 4:25:24 AM , Rating: 2
Definately not. Just because you sell more units doesnt make it the most successful console out of the three of them. Wii is in a completely different catagory - just look at the genre of games.. The only competition Wii has, is itself, really.

Sony and M$, well now, thats a totally different ball game. An Xbox 360 Elite with HD-DVD external drive is $80 more expensive (sure), but allowing for the fact that the PS3 only has a 60Gb HDD, i reckon they're fairly evenly priced - altho i doubt very much that the extra 60Gb is worth US$80 these days.


Hmmm...
By daftrok on 3/28/2007 12:45:40 AM , Rating: 2
This will be an interesting inclusion to the lineup, though it is interesting to make the price $479.99. I could have sworn it would have been $399.99. Why would it be $479.99 if there is no no Blu-ray, no Bluetooth, no wireless capabilities, and mediocre backwards compatibility? I mean hardly anyone buys the core package, it would be competitive as hell to make the Premium cost $299.99 and the Elite for $399.99. Playstation would be crushed. It is nice however that they included HDMI (why else would you buy this console) and the 120 GB HDD add-on for other users. But this pricing is getting ridiculous for the accessories.




RE: Hmmm...
By FITCamaro on 3/28/2007 8:21:56 AM , Rating: 2
I said this as well. If the current premium system was knocked back to $300, then it'd be the best bang for the buck out there as you only pay $300 for a gaming console with a 20GB hard drive (to match the $500 PS3). Then if you want the HD-DVD drive for high def movies, you in the end pay the same amount as the $500 PS3.

However I guess I'll have to wait. I'm not gonna get a 360 until the 65nm switch. I have a feeling a further price reduction will happen then anyway.


RE: Hmmm...
By TheDoc9 on 3/28/2007 2:05:16 PM , Rating: 2
They don't drop the price because if they do then $ony will immediately follow suite and it will greatly increase the competition.


yay!
By BillyBatson on 3/28/2007 2:36:17 AM , Rating: 2
I have been waiting for this but only for the HDMI! I have a 360 premium right now and the external HD-DVD drive but it is sorely missing HDMI. I could care less about the larger HDD and i actually HATE the black finish. The finish is WAY too matt and ends up giving it a very cheap look in all of the pictures I have seen so far and it will actually stick out like a sore thumb with all of my A/V stuff since everything I have is silver (tv stand is silver with black shelves though and TV is silver with a black bezel). It may be good for the controller as I won't have to make my friends wash their hands before we play LOL
I hope the Elite will be available in White also.
I will be picking up one of these regardless though




RE: yay!
By JimFear on 3/28/2007 9:33:18 AM , Rating: 2
Premium will soon get HDMI and the new HANA scaler (I believe the current one is ANA) eventually, I imagine this will be with the shift to 65nm. Hopefully it'll be HDMI 1.3 otherwise no TrueHD or DTS-HD for 360 folk, myself included :(


RE: yay!
By michal1980 on 3/28/07, Rating: -1
RE: yay!
By JimFear on 3/28/2007 12:01:51 PM , Rating: 2
Fair play to that, I thought that only 1.3 could do it because of the increased bandwidth. Question now is whether the 360 is capable of doing that?

Anyone know?


RE: yay!
By deeznuts on 3/28/2007 12:58:56 PM , Rating: 2
michal1980, I think you are correct, but I believe movies already have the PCM on it, so you don't need to process TrueHD or DTS-HD to PCM, it's already there.

Will the Xbox pass it through is the question. Has this been confirmed on the HDMI port of the Xbox? Be foolish if they didn't so I have to assume they will.


RE: yay!
By michal1980 on 3/28/07, Rating: -1
Seperate HDMI cable
By DingieM on 3/28/2007 3:39:12 AM , Rating: 2
The larger HDD is a welcome addition but I would like to know if the HDMI output is just the cable or new scalar hardware????




RE: Seperate HDMI cable
By rykerabel on 3/28/2007 10:12:09 AM , Rating: 2
new hardware. the original xbox 360 did not support digital video output (Component and VGA are analog; DVI and HDMI are digital)


RE: Seperate HDMI cable
By Ryanman on 3/28/2007 10:13:39 AM , Rating: 2
both.


Too much
By Beany on 3/28/2007 1:02:24 AM , Rating: 3
It's too much. It should cost the same as the Premium 360, and that should go down to the cost of the Core system.
With PS3 you get built in wireless and a Blu-Ray drive for a little extra cash, and we all know how much Blu-Ray players cost... it's a way better deal. This Elite 360 feels like a rip off in comparison, if you're just comparing what hardware you get for your money.

Even $179.99 for a 120GB HDD is too much. I'm surprised MS didnt put this console at $399, they could have got a lot more people getting a 360 then.

Cant believe i'm bashing 360... i have a PS3 and 360, and MS's console is deffinately a superior platform and more fun at the moment, but these prices suck a big fat one.




RE: Too much
By bkm32 on 3/30/2007 12:41:35 PM , Rating: 2
I fully expect MS to actually release the Elite at $399 for two reasons:

1) Bill Gates wants to crush Sony.
2) MS makes at least $75 on every X360 sold (numbers based on isuppli article:

http://www.isuppli.com/news/default.asp?id=6919

It's reasonable to assume that that margin has increased since the number of units has increased. At any rate, if it's not, then losing $6 per unit isn't going to kill MS if it can kill Sony first.


New XBox
By restrada on 3/28/2007 12:53:09 AM , Rating: 1
The $479 price point is good, however, you still have the HD-DVD add on .. another $200. So, right there, that's about $679 total to fully utilize this console. This beats Sony's premium version for $20 bucks. Many will be debating about this one, no doubt. All the fan boys will be lined up to grab this when it releases.




RE: New XBox
By darkavatar on 3/28/2007 1:04:36 AM , Rating: 1
um, I thought the 60GB PS3 retails at $599, so isn't it a $80 premium? I did that over my head, must pull out my trusty calculator....


RE: New XBox
By deeznuts on 3/28/2007 1:03:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The $479 price point is good, however, you still have the HD-DVD add on .. another $200. So, right there, that's about $679 total to fully utilize this console. This beats Sony's premium version for $20 bucks. Many will be debating about this one, no doubt. All the fan boys will be lined up to grab this when it releases.

Um, as said right above the 60GB retails for $599. So it's a $80 premium. Oh yeah, so there isn't much debate. You get 60GB more, but no wifi for those who want it, the ability to upgrade the HDD to any notebook SATA HDD, use any external USB mass storage for media (not gamesaves or DL games), thumbdrives and media cards. Oh and the currently ass kicking HD Format if you so choose to include that into the debate.


Microsoft's 65nm CPUs
By Dactyl on 3/28/07, Rating: 0
RE: Microsoft's 65nm CPUs
By FITCamaro on 3/28/2007 8:23:29 AM , Rating: 2
What the hell are you talking about? Enjoy spouting worthless, meaningless crap much?


RE: Microsoft's 65nm CPUs
By Ryanman on 3/28/2007 10:11:41 AM , Rating: 2
You idiot. Hes making a joke about Vista.


Consumer Ignorance:
By GhandiInstinct on 3/28/2007 2:02:44 AM , Rating: 2
Where is the detail about RPM and Cache? You know, those two things ARE the meat and potatoes of a hard drive. How ignorant of consumers thinking more size means better!

This is a hard drive not memory.




RE: Consumer Ignorance:
By caqde on 3/28/2007 3:47:56 AM , Rating: 2
Hard Drive speed is dictated by much more than that...

In order of importance
A) Data Density
B) RPM's (not much choice here, hence it's not A)
C) Firmware
D) Cache

Although A and C are not listed they are more important than most of the other information when it comes to speed. Either way its a harddrive for a console... Speed isn't going to be that big of a deal.. heck I doubt it will even be noticeable.

PS: because Data Density goes up as the years go by, newer harddrive's even of the same size as the old one are likely to be faster


The most important part...
By yacoub on 3/28/2007 8:34:20 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
The shift to a smaller, cooler running Xbox 360 chips, however, is one thing that was unable to make it into the Xbox 360 Elite. Microsoft revealed plans nearly a year ago to shrink its current 90nm chips to the 65nm process, something that’s now slated for later this year.


Thanks for confirming that the die-shrink is not part of this release. I'll be waiting for that before I ever consider picking up an X360. (Know too many folks whose 360s have died from heat.)




Not upset....just wait
By klondon101 on 3/28/2007 3:30:57 PM , Rating: 2
I think that Microsoft is putting this out prematurely. It makes them look weak and a little scared. The real Elite should have the 65nm chip and be more than just a HD upgrade. There will be changes to this device yet again and then there will be a whole new batch of people upset. I love my Xbox 360! I think MS should have found a way to let current users upgrade to the new unit. Not that I would right now, as there are going to be more changes made. Microsoft....if you are listening, show some allegiance to the people who are supporting your efforts...not just "new users"




RE: Not upset....just wait
By klondon101 on 3/28/2007 3:32:23 PM , Rating: 2
P.S. Xbox 360.5!


Don't Be Surprised if...
By bkm32 on 3/30/2007 12:18:52 PM , Rating: 2
Don't be surprised to see MS actually release the Elite at $399, the Premium at $299, and the Core at $249 (it's first real salvo fired at the Wii) on April 29 with a press release about 2 days before announcing the new pricing scheme. Expect that or some type of mail-in rebate for the first 2-4 weeks.

Then, expect these to be the permanent prices when the 65nm chipsets release around the same time Halo 3 comes out. Don't forget the Halo 3 bundle pre-orders, either.

Imagine MS bundling Halo 3, Halo 3 faceplate, and Halo 3 controller design w/the Elite for $449-$479.

Remember, MS has a very sneaky and deceptive Marketing camp (think the "origami" and "Halo 2 countdown" timer marketing campaigns). These guys are good and Bill Gates is quite a cutthroat competitor for a geek. It would be the second serious battle of this console generation's war.

If I thought of it, then they've already planned to do it. Although, I am surprise that there's no X360/Zune Bundle, yet. It might be in the works now that SSD Flash storage costs have been cut in half (or soon to be).




RE: Don't Be Surprised if...
By bkm32 on 3/30/2007 12:23:17 PM , Rating: 2
One more thing, Bungie could theoretically fit all of the "Legendary" content on the 120GB HDD Halo 3 bundled Elite. Fans would scoop it up for $449-$499. They were going to pay $120 bucks for it anyway, right?


not sure it's a great idea.
By boing on 3/28/2007 5:43:19 AM , Rating: 3
Good to leave out built in HD-DVD, the original reasons for doing it externally still apply.

Good to have more storage.

Good ti have HDMI connectivity.

Black is bad idea, if you built your brand around white then stay white apart from limited editions, black weakens that brand and pissess off customers with white peripherals.

No 65nm is very bad, overheating and noise are the consoles biggest weaknesses, they need to be addressed immediately, it would also allow more profit without price increases. Every reason to do it, no reason not to.

If it was my call i'd have left it white and put the new chip in, that would be perfect(ish)