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The Xbox 360 Elite will not output multi-channel PCM audio over HDMI, as with Core and Premium systems

New details of the recently announced Xbox 360 Elite bundle have unraveled on AVS Forum.  Microsoft previously unveiled the Xbox 360 Elite bundle, equipped with an HDMI video output last week. Amir Majidimehr, corporate vice president, Mobile and Embedded Devices Division, whose group worked on the HD DVD function of the Xbox 360, released details of the upcoming Xbox 360 Elite’s HDMI output capabilities in a forum post.

Microsoft’s upcoming Xbox 360 Elite supports the HDMI 1.2 specification, unlike Sony’s PS3, which is HDMI 1.3 compliant. When connected to an HDTV set with HDMI input, the Xbox 360 will automatically select the appropriate video output resolution up to 1080p. Users cannot manually force resolutions as the Xbox 360 relies on HDMI handshaking to select a suitable resolution.

HDMI audio output remains crippled with the Xbox 360 Elite. The Xbox 360 Elite, even when connected to HDMI will not output uncompressed multi-channel audio. Xbox 360 HD DVD users hoping to enjoy the full glory of lossless HD DVD audio formats via HDMI should look elsewhere.

 “If you are keen on having 5.1 PCM output, I recommend purchasing the Toshiba A2 player which after the price drop, will be much cheaper than Elite,” said Majidimehr. When connected to an HDMI home theater receiver capable of processing audio over HDMI, the Xbox 360 will continue to output Dolby Digital, DTS or WMA-Pro to compatible receivers. Dolby Digital Plus and TrueHD audio tracks will continue to be down mixed and output no different from the Xbox 360 Core or Premium systems.

Nevertheless, the Xbox 360 Elite can output 2-channel PCM audio over HDMI. “Our goal was to provide a digital connection for video which people wanted for some of their TVs. And of course, single cable A/V connection. So if having analog video bothered you before, you can now use digital. If you lacked component/VGA on your TV, you are in business with Xbox 360 Elite.”

Expect a spring HD DVD software update to introduce DTS audio output capabilities to existing Xbox 360 Core and Premium systems. Majidimehr also promises the spring update will address the HD DVD lip-synchronization issues.

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A quick reminder
By Aprime on 4/1/2007 9:58:16 PM , Rating: 2
It's still 04/01/07.




RE: A quick reminder
By Anh Huynh on 4/1/2007 9:58:58 PM , Rating: 2
The quoted post is from 3/31/2007


RE: A quick reminder
By Aprime on 4/1/2007 10:02:53 PM , Rating: 1
Depending on where you live.

God that forum's theme is awful.


RE: A quick reminder
By Anh Huynh on 4/1/2007 10:04:08 PM , Rating: 2
Amir is in the US if i recall and he posted at 3:42pm.


RE: A quick reminder
By alifbaa on 4/2/2007 12:35:22 AM , Rating: 2
It is awful, but they are a great source for expert information.


RE: A quick reminder
By deeznuts on 4/2/2007 12:54:13 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
God that forum's theme is awful.
yes it is, that's why everyone who knows (including me just recently lol) turns it to white.


Well...
By Locutus465 on 4/1/2007 10:00:38 PM , Rating: 3
Personally I've decided to make the plunge into the X-Box world with one of these bad boys. I've been putting it off in the hopes of a price drop... As this is not likely, I'm just going to pick one of these up as soon as one is avialable.




RE: Well...
By alifbaa on 4/2/2007 12:37:39 AM , Rating: 1
If you're going to do it, I'd get one of the core systems about a month after the new version appears. You'll get a great deal on an excellent console, and you'll save enough money to buy the accessories you actually need and still wind up cheaper than the premium.


RE: Well...
By Locutus465 on 4/2/2007 1:12:57 AM , Rating: 2
I've considered that... However I would require a hard drive (listed at $99) which brings me up to premium prices, and I want wireless controlers (busts premium prices). With the Elite I get the benifit of the bigger HD plus other improvements.

Still, it'd be nice if MS felt like they had insentive to drop the price....


RE: Well...
By OrSin on 4/2/2007 9:39:08 AM , Rating: 1
I got the premuim 360 now and rarely play games on it anymore. But I still us it every day as a media extended. I figure when this comes out the old core or premuin systems will be selling for 100-150 less. Then I can get one for my bedroom. :) $150 core systems is sounding very nice to me.


RE: Well...
By alifbaa on 4/2/2007 1:25:36 PM , Rating: 2
FYI there is a workaround to the HD issue that could save you some money. There is some sort of fix you can google for the 360 to take any HD and make the Xbox recognize it as a 20gb drive. I imagine that when the 120gb drive hits the street the fix will be updated too. Right now, you could get a 40gb drive for $40ish at Newegg and an enclosure for about $10, so you'll save $50. The 120s are maybe $5-10 more.

Another money saver if you don't have a wired network connection is to buy a cheapo wireless router and connect it to your xbox and your wireless router to your wireless network running as a client. Google DD-WRT and look at their list of compatible routers. It is really easy to upgrade your firmware; gives your router more features, control, and security; and it is actually more stable than stock firmware in my experience. I've been running two Linksys WRT54G's for over a year on DD-WRT absolutely trouble free. Linksys' firmware was crap.


RE: Well...
By Locutus465 on 4/2/2007 11:54:59 PM , Rating: 2
My Vonage broadband router is conviniantly located right on my entertainment center. It is not a wireless router, though I assume that the 360 still sports an eithernet port? I still want only wireless controllers for my 360 though, you can subtract one from the cost of the system with the premium packages. Then there's my full intention of upgrading to at least a 42" LCD as soon as possible, for which the HDMI will be quite handy :)

All good idea's, but for me I think the premium package is the way to go.


Reasons?
By ObscureCaucasian on 4/1/2007 9:43:26 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder if there are any reasons they opted to go w/ HDMI 1.2 as opposed to 1.3. I'm sure there is some technical or legal reasoning behind it.




RE: Reasons?
By i4mt3hwin on 4/1/2007 9:48:05 PM , Rating: 3
http://www.hdmi.org/resourcecenter/index.asp v1.3

http://www.hdmi.org/press/pr/pr_20050823.asp v1.2

Looks like 1.3 offers a lot over 1.2. No idea why they wouldn't go 1.3.


RE: Reasons?
By alifbaa on 4/2/2007 12:34:40 AM , Rating: 2
Cost, and they don't think you'll care/notice.


Optical output
By electriple9 on 4/1/2007 9:45:48 PM , Rating: 2
Where is no optical out on the elite to get 5.1 sound.
Thanks




RE: Optical output
By Anh Huynh on 4/1/2007 9:58:17 PM , Rating: 2
Optical output is still available via the HD output cable just like the current 360.


By Eug on 4/2/2007 1:18:46 AM , Rating: 3
Every single release version of HDMI, including even 1.0, can output full uncompressed multichannel PCM audio.

I don't know about the Xbox 360 Elite, but if there's a limitation there for multichannel PCM, it's not an issue with the form of HDMI being used.

What HDMI 1.2 cannot do is output stuff like NATIVE Dolby TrueHD, but that's irrelevant anyway, since it's already decoded in the player before final output.

P.S. SACD is fully supported by HDMI 1.2 (although the Xbox 360 itself doesn't support SACD).




Who cares?
By Mitch101 on 4/2/2007 11:40:04 AM , Rating: 3
You can always get the Audio through the optical connections. While not as convenient as the HDMI 1.3 solution its not a crisis.

Its like the reviews I read about the people complaining about how their speaker terminals are too close together and it took them an extra minute to connect them. Who cares its not like your disconnect and reconnect them every time you watch a movie.

As for true audio I find it paticularly interesting that more people like the surround created by AC3 over DTS. Audio is personal taste. I might even believe the Matrix is done better in AC3 than in DTS. Go ahead and compare audio equipment now. My receiver is a mere 800.00 and speakers 400.00 but I like the AC3 output of the Matrix better.

I think that most people who know the difference just choose DTS because they know the technical reasons behind it and not really for the sound as Audio is a very personal preference.

Hence a Bose argument here because Bose produces sound the way they feel people prefer it. Bose doesnt create sound the way it was truely produced. Bose does sound good but do you want to recreate the true sound or is that the way your like it to sound?

I should say that audio tracks are only as good as the people who created them as well. Some DTS tracks seem like they creators whipped them out in a hurry.

In the end No amount of Audio does anything for a lousy movie. Just like no amount of High Definition a movie is will do it any good if the movie is lame.

Besides havent your heard 7.1 is dead and that the next standard looks to be 13.1. Does that mean 7.1 is junk now?




not use in thailand
By speed99 on 4/6/2007 2:46:59 PM , Rating: 1
i think in thai not use hdmi
now 80 % thai peaple have televition 20-29 type old
30 % lcd tv very exp"
i think in thai use av port in out 100% in thailand




no 1.3 is cause there is no need.
By hunter01 on 4/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: no 1.3 is cause there is no need.
By Anh Huynh on 4/1/2007 10:32:31 PM , Rating: 2
The Xbox360 decodes the TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus tracks, and then reencodes it into Dolby Digital, or DTS with the spring update, and then outputs it over HDMI or Optical, instead of decoding the TrueHD and DD+ track and outputing it in its full lossless glory.


RE: no 1.3 is cause there is no need.
By hunter01 on 4/1/2007 10:52:27 PM , Rating: 1
I am not sure how Xbox 360 does it. But I think what it does is just to get the regular compressed layer and pass the signal to the receiver like all the other regular DVD player does. I seriously doubt the Xbox 360 has the ability to decode the audio natively.


RE: no 1.3 is cause there is no need.
By Anh Huynh on 4/2/2007 12:31:34 AM , Rating: 2
HD DVD uses a lossless audio track, either TrueHD or Dolby Digital Plus. The Xbox360 does not output the lossless audio in its full lossless glory, it downsamples it to Dolby Digital, or DTS. The process requires the 360 to decode the TrueHD and DD+ signal before it can encode into Dolby Digital instead of decoding the lossless track and outputing it as uncompressed multichannel PCM.


RE: no 1.3 is cause there is no need.
By Lakku on 4/2/2007 3:40:34 AM , Rating: 2
This post covers everyone refering to Dolby Digital Plus. DD+ is not, repeat, is NOT a lossless audio format. It is just dolby digital that is less compressed, meaning, it goes at a couple Mbps or so instead of 640Kbps like AC-3 does now. TrueHD is the only lossless audio format from Dolby. Either way, they are both a waste of time IMO, since I could care less about DD+ and I can already get uncompressed and lossless audio on my current equipment. Why would Dolby push these technologies when they aren't needed?


RE: no 1.3 is cause there is no need.
By NainoKami on 4/2/2007 6:28:31 AM , Rating: 2
It is needed. I'd love getting proper sound from my movies. AC3 is lossy as f**k, and though DTS is much better, still doesn't quite cut it. What equipment do you have that allows you to get lossless? Are we talking DVD-A or SACD? These are lovely formats, but aren't used for movies. Just because you don't want it, it doesn't mean it's not needed...


By Lakku on 4/2/2007 12:11:57 PM , Rating: 2
The PS3 can output movies and games (Resistence has lossless audio) in linear PCM audio, up to 7.1. All you need is an A/V receiver that can process (not just accept and pass through) HDMI signals. Blu-Ray movies, the ones i have watched thus far anyway, have lossless 5.1 audio tracks. You can also use a stand alone player that has analog outs, so long as the stand alone player has audio processing on board.


RE: no 1.3 is cause there is no need.
By ogreslayer on 4/1/07, Rating: 0
RE: no 1.3 is cause there is no need.
By NainoKami on 4/2/2007 6:32:55 AM , Rating: 2
HDMI 1.3 is there for the player to be able to pass the decoded signal though without processing, NOT in order for it to send uncompressed PCM. Uncompressed PCM can be passed through HDMI 1.1/1.2, but has to rely on the player to decode the audio first. HDMI 1.3 can pass the decoding duties to the AV reciever/processor, if said processor can actually decode the signal.


By therealnickdanger on 4/3/2007 9:08:41 AM , Rating: 2
To be more specific:

1.1/1.2/1.3 all allow for uncompressed LPCM to be sent to a compatible receiver.

1.3 allows for the flagged, uncompressed BITSTREAM to be sent directly to the receiver.

Technically, you get the same audio either way, although I'm sure ultra-purists will disagree (they always do).


1.3> 12
By zaki on 4/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: 1.3> 12
By Locutus465 on 4/1/2007 11:50:41 PM , Rating: 1
X-BOX is still cheaper, with cheaper still models than this one, and a bigger game selection... American's like a good gaming experince, but we are not insensitive to price... In particular those of us who also keep their computer upgraded for great PC gaming. PS3 would be doing better here if Sony had excluded BlueRay.


RE: 1.3> 12
By ObscureCaucasian on 4/1/2007 11:51:46 PM , Rating: 4
HDMI is just a format for outputting to the TV, it is hardly a feature that would make a system.

If I said:

Live>PSN
THERFORE
XBOX 360>PS3

Thats a much more relevant feature but still not a very valid comment. One feature doesn't distinguish one machine above another.


RE: 1.3> 12
By alifbaa on 4/2/2007 12:31:25 AM , Rating: 2
Individual features grab market segments. The PS3 is geared towards the high end gamers with more money to spend. The PS3 buyer is more likely to have a large TV and a surround system. The extra income they by and large have is more likely to be spent on more games, which is where the profit center really lies for both consoles. If you can attract more of those buyers, you will make more money than when you attract a low end buyer. Of course, there is always a balance to be struck, but it seems to me that XBOX has conceded that high end to the PS3 and is now going after the high end Wii buyer instead. That may be smart, and it may not be. Only time will tell.

Personally, if I'm in the market for a new console, I'm going to look for the box that will likely have the most longevity and the most options for me. The PS3 has an easily upgraded HD at market prices. It gives me the ability to boot up an OS and use it as a fully functioning computer -- allowing me to play all my media types through my surround setup and big screen, unlike Xbox, which only allows a few formats. PS3 gives me a full featured HD video device through Blu-Ray, Xbox forces me to use an ugly external set-up that my wife would never accept, and then it degrades the audio and limits the feed to 5.1.

In short, PS3 looks a lot more future proof to me than the 360. If the cost is something I'm willing to accept, that'd be the one I would go for right now, although I personally am waiting for better game content and an improved live setup. I'm sure that by October of this year all that will be fixed in time for me to add the PS3 to my Christmas list.


RE: 1.3> 12
By housecat on 4/2/2007 10:44:17 AM , Rating: 5
I dont think MS is giving the high end to PS3.. the only thing the Elite really lacks that is relevant to 80% of us is Bluray, which itself is still in the middle of the next generation disc war.

I personally wont be buying any bluray or HD-DVD discs. I believe the future is in streaming media on-demand. And I'm not buying my favorite DVD titles over again in HD.

MS is going after the high end Wii gamer by offering their Core system. Being able to play all 360 games on that probably soon-to-be $199 system is a pretty amazing bargain.

For me, it comes down to either media-streaming or bluray, and I gotta go with streaming, so I'm buying the Elite.


RE: 1.3> 12
By Zoomer on 4/2/07, Rating: 0
RE: 1.3> 12
By alifbaa on 4/2/2007 1:14:30 PM , Rating: 3
That's what I was going to say.

Small point, and correct me if I'm wrong, isn't it 1920x1080? I think you're thinking of 4:3 instead of 16:9. 16:9 makes the bandwidth and performance problems inherent to downloading even worse. For performance, you could always have a dedicated processor for H264 similar to a physics or graphics card. Software may be improved to get better performance too, but the CPU requirements are still going to be pretty huge, even with quad core CPUs.

It's definitely where we're headed in the future. Many of the studios have started looking into what is essentially a secured version of Bittorrent to distribute films over. We're seeing its early versions now, and quality is sub DVD, but acceptable.


RE: 1.3> 12
By housecat on 4/2/2007 2:03:59 PM , Rating: 4
Who said anything about having on-demand 1080P?

quote:
Sorry to burst your bubble, the vast majourity of the people don't have the bandwidth to stream 1440 x 1080 progressive with 7.1 audio.


The majority of people dont have 1920 x1080 progressive TVs or 7.1 audio..
Bubble still intact!

Standard res on-demand streaming is where the big money is if someone can figure it out. Maybe with 720 for some titles (1080 is even less market saturated).

I am going for my MBA and work fulltime, I'm tired of buying/renting shiny discs. When I'm beat from a week of hard work and school on a Friday night, I use the on-demand feature built into my cable company's PVR box.


RE: 1.3> 12
By Zoomer on 4/3/2007 7:47:45 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know why it was broadcast that way, just that it is. You are right to say that it isn't 16:9, assuming they use square pixels . It could be the same as the anamorphic technique used on many dvds.

A quick google search reveals something about fitting it into a 25Mbps data stream.

http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q...


RE: 1.3> 12
By Zoomer on 4/3/2007 7:51:35 PM , Rating: 2
So anyway, you won't be buying any bluray or HD-DVD disks - which offers HD content - and implying that they should go away because of video streaming. Okay.

But the problem with this is that bluray or HD-DVD disks deliver HD video, not SD video. You may be right to say that DVDs are obsolete, but bluray and HDDVD? You do NOT have the bandwidth to stream that.

Bluray or HD-DVD are new standards that are meant for the next decade. Nobody needed DVD, there was the nice VHS, remember?


Oh come one, wheres the hate
By michal1980 on 4/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: Oh come one, wheres the hate
By Anh Huynh on 4/1/2007 10:32:59 PM , Rating: 2
It will still output Dolby Digital/DTS over HDMI as long as your audio receiver supports it.


RE: Oh come one, wheres the hate
By hunter01 on 4/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: Oh come one, wheres the hate
By michal1980 on 4/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: Oh come one, wheres the hate
By Flunk on 4/1/2007 11:48:51 PM , Rating: 3
Does it really matter?

It's a games console. If you have a sound system good enough to distinquish the difference between the uncompressed and compressed sound tracks in HD DVD movies you really should be using a high quality stand-alone player.

For all other purposes the HDMI output of the 360 is more than good enough. There is no reason to tear apart a video game console for lack of one extremely high end feature that the average consumer does not even know exists.


RE: Oh come one, wheres the hate
By Anh Huynh on 4/2/2007 12:30:07 AM , Rating: 2
This may be true, however, the PS3 can output the full uncompressed PCM audio track of Blu-ray, why can't Microsoft do the same with HD DVD.


RE: Oh come one, wheres the hate
By alifbaa on 4/2/07, Rating: 0
By TheRequiem on 4/3/2007 2:20:23 AM , Rating: 2
I think most people really don't have quite an idea of how big high-end property goes in America, lol. As many people as there are without high-end equipment theres people who do. There are A LOT of people with high-end equipment, why else are they releasing an Xbox 360 with HDMI and IPTV out the box? It's because of demand... people with high-end equipment are buying these (at this time) high-end consoles to play them with. Everyone I know that has a 360 has flat screen tv's for the most part and good audio. Supporting Uncompressed PCM audio with HDMI 1.3 is a viable option to take. I hoenstly can't believe Microsoft would choose not to support HDMI 1.3. or wait for the new smaller cpis that will run cooler. I think they are jumping to grab sales right now more then they are making a realistic transition.

I will wait for further Xbox 360 enhancements including the cooler cpu, maybe hdmi 1.3 and whatever else it is that they do to future releases and special editions. This Elite edition is whack... anyone who buys it is falling into the plunge for a quick remedy to a small problem. WAIT!


RE: Oh come one, wheres the hate
By alifbaa on 4/2/07, Rating: 0
By Locutus465 on 4/3/2007 12:04:59 AM , Rating: 2
360 still does fairly well in the media department... It's tight integration with Media Center is one of it's biggest selling points. And as pointed out by many others, not all of us have such a high end audio system that the lack of uncompressed 7.1 matters. I my self just got my first 5.1 home theater audio system late last summer (yes, dated tech by richer folks standards). As far as I'm conserned, that's more than good enough for my needs, particularly once I get around to upgrading the speakers.


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