backtop

Gadgets XBOX 360 HD-DVD Up Close and Personal
Sven Olsen (Blog) - May 10, 2006 10:34 AM
Print E-mail del.icio.us 68 comment(s) - last by smilingcrow.. on May 13 at 8:55 AM

Spy shot of the XBOX 360 HD-DVD - Image courtesy Engadget
Microsoft's upcoming accessory gets a sneak peak

Our friends at Engadget got a sneak peak at the USB HD-DVD add-on unit at an E3 Microsoft party.  The 5.25" HD-DVD drive appears to be nothing more than an external casing for an off the shelf PC HD-DVD player with a few extra USB ports.  Ryan Block reports:

Now that you've collected yourself after that bit of hysteria, we can tell you the (non-functional) drive itself had only a power plug (which looked to be of the variety that runs to the wall, no adapter required), a mini USB host port for connecting to the 360, two full USB ports for the device to otherwise act as a USB hub, and a spot for your 360 WiFi adapter to latch on the back since it could possibly be displaced by the use of the rear USB port to get this thing running on the console.

Unfortunately, other details about the 360 HD-DVD are fairly light.  The device will not function as a stand alone unit, and almost certainly Microsoft will make sure it only functions with XBOX 360 and not any old PC.  Considering the WiFi adaptor for the 360 runs upwards of $100 when a USB WiFi dongle can be had for less than $40, don't expect the 360 HD-DVD upgrade to be much of a bargain when it is released either.

Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled
not a fan
By Quiksel on 5/10/2006 11:20:17 AM , Rating: 2
ok, so it's a HD-DVD player. An expensive one. It's external (of course).

and yet, I'm curious at the same time. What's the big deal here?




RE: not a fan
By SunAngel on 5/10/06, Rating: -1
RE: not a fan
By IsDanReally on 5/10/2006 12:01:11 PM , Rating: 1
The big idea, is that you don't seem to know what you are talking about. The HD-DVD is for watching movies, not for playing games. 360 has had HD gaming from the start.


RE: not a fan
By Practice on 5/10/2006 4:22:54 PM , Rating: 2
Why buy an Xbox 360 HD-DVD player that only works with an Xbox 360 when you can just buy a regular HD-DVD player with no need to tie-up your Xbox 360 to watch a movie? Unless of course the external HD-DVD drive is much cheaper than a regular HD-DVD player.


RE: not a fan
By MrSmurf on 5/10/2006 6:48:34 PM , Rating: 2
Well I'm sure it will be a little cheaper since it should be using the Xbox to decode but let's face it... the only two reasons MS is doing this is 1) take away Sony's advantage of having a next-gen disc drive and 2) increase the HD-DVD's install base.

I will be surprised if this thing is ever released. It looks silly and isn't practical. I do see MS releasing an updated 360 model with HD-DVD player but not in the near future.


RE: not a fan
By Zoomer on 5/11/2006 9:55:40 AM , Rating: 2
$299 console + $200 HD DVD player = $499

Suddenly, the ps3 doesn't seem to be that bad of a deal.


RE: not a fan
By Locutus465 on 5/10/2006 12:45:56 PM , Rating: 2
In what context are you making this statement? X-Box as a DVD-Player? I never used my original X-Box as a DVD-Player to begin with, thus there is no difference there. When I do buy a 360 I'll probably pass on the HD-DVD, it's just something I would never use.

If you're some how implying that the 360 requires an HD-DVD drive for next-gen gaming to work then you are way off base. There are already several games which demonstrate the power of the 360 as a next-gen console, all of which ship on plain old DVD's. There will probably be no need for an HD-DVD game for quite some time. That kind of storage still does not seem to be required (hey, oblivion ships on a single dvd!!!)


RE: not a fan
By Houdani on 5/10/2006 12:47:35 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, your hatred of MS has clouded reality, and consequently is causing you to spread outright wrong information in your wake.

IsDanReally's post is riddled with truth.
Yours? Eh ... not so much.


RE: not a fan
By tuteja1986 on 5/10/2006 12:09:09 PM , Rating: 2
I don't care :( thank god Microsoft didn't shove the HD DVD in the Xbox 360 or it would cost as much as PS3. Sony is in big trouble right now and they have ditched dual-HDMI support altogether, even from its high-end 60GB system. Also was the Blu-ray disc drive in the PS3 will run at 2X. People aren’t going to pay $599 just to play Blu-ray movie in high defi because the $499 doesn't HDMI and it doesn't support HDCP support. Sony also had the worst conference and only real gameplay demo shown that was worth getting excited about was the Heavenly sword. FF13 and MGS4 are good but they aren't coming out until late 2007 or even 2008. Sony needs to learn that shoving Blu-ray format down people throat :( equals = doomed format .


RE: not a fan
By MrSmurf on 5/10/2006 6:52:16 PM , Rating: 2
People will pay $600 for a console. I think it's smart of Sony to release the price so high at the start. Look at how many people were willing to spend $1000 on a 360!

However, how long will it be at $600? That is the question because the hardcore gamers will all have a PS3 and the rest won't be willing to spend so much. I really am expecting a price drop within 6 months and a shortage within that time. That will also give Blu-Ray a chance to become cheaper.


RE: not a fan
By ViperROhb34 on 5/10/2006 8:18:52 PM , Rating: 2
I know many people who won't buy the PS3 for 600 dollars - "The only one you'd want with a Blu ray player" because the other one without the other connections is a joke.

And the price is not going to go down as quickly on Blu Ray.
HD-DVD cost more now because its new technology, but its production cost are in reality little more then DVD.. thats why I think it'll win.. Blu Ray actually does cost alot more.. For companies to make those Blu-Ray Player/recorders.. they'll have to keep cost higher longer to recoup their expenses.. And then if they end up selling enough of them.. only then will the price go down considerably.

HD-DVD all the way.. but before it even matters.. the American cable industry needs to get their butts in gear and move up to HD cable.. else the HD-DVD recording ( or even BLu Ray recording ) at home is really worthless as a selling point for recording HD television - which has been a selling point - and which is a moot point for the avg american..


RE: not a fan
By Zoomer on 5/11/2006 9:58:30 AM , Rating: 2
Not really, being able to record tens of hours on a single disc is a boon.


RE: not a fan
By EidolWays on 5/10/2006 1:43:08 PM , Rating: 2
Quiksel is actually spot-on in asking, "What's the big deal?" To ask why an add-on matters is NOT bashing Microsoft.

There are two benefits to the add-on HD-DVD drive.

1) Support for HD-DVD movie discs. Whether or not the Xbox 360 will support the full resolution of HD-DVD movies, I don't know. I assume that would require HDMI or DVI support from the Xbox 360 (according to an interview with an MS higher-up, HDMI support CAN be added. Google "Xbox 360 HDMI" and look for the interview page on TeamXbox). It will support the media, at least. It's likely that most individuals, myself included, don't use their Xbox as a DVD player, but if the Xbox 360 DOES support the full resolution of HD-DVD, then this add-on could be a much better (read "cheaper") option than a separate HD-DVD player.

2) Expanded capacity. HD-DVD discs are able to hold more data, thus allowing for larger games on a single disc. There have supposedly been complaints about typical DVD's being restrictive, but as a previous poster here points out, game developers don't seem to have run out of room just yet on typical DVD's.

So both of the benefits are really rather iffy, and they don't actually add to the GAMING experience at all. That said, the HD-DVD player add-on is going to be the most "wait-and-see" add-on that Microsoft has yet released.

On the upside, the USB 2.0 interface ought to be able to handle the external player with aplomb since its theoretical maximum throughput is around 60 Megabytes per second (480 Mbps). I assume that's a total figure (meaning that communication to and from the Xbox 360 and the drive will be, in total, 60 MB/sec or less), but this should still be plenty of headroom. What does this mean to you? The drive will function as well as if it were inside the Xbox 360.


RE: not a fan
By Furen on 5/10/2006 1:54:38 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft has repeatedly stated that it HD-DVD WILL NOT be used for gaming at all, ever. After all, if developers run out of disc space they can always throw the games into two DVDs, this would be no problem and would probably still be cheaper than a single blueray disc. The problem with multi-disc releases during the PS1's life was that people were throwing their releases into 4+ discs, which is a pain in the ass to deal with.


RE: not a fan
By some1whoknows on 5/10/2006 3:19:45 PM , Rating: 2
EidolWays: You raise a good point about the data throughput of USB2 but I don't think your right about the speeds. The HD-DVD may need about 60Megabytes/s bandwidth but I'm pretty sure the bandwidth of USB2 is not 480Megabytes/s. Theoretical speed of 480Megabits/s maybe but sustained speed of 60MegaBytes? if it does it will be close to it's limit, Firewire would probably do it since it's sutainable speed is higher than USB2.


RE: not a fan
By LeftSide on 5/10/2006 5:32:28 PM , Rating: 2
Since when can a HD-DVD support sustained reads of 60 megabytes per second. I thought it was much lower like 25 megabites per second...


RE: not a fan
By some1whoknows on 5/11/2006 7:25:23 AM , Rating: 2
depending on compression (obviously) but Full HD 1080P, which HD-DVD does support, although the Xbox360 add-on drive may not, can be almost 60MB/s.


RE: not a fan
By Decaydence on 5/10/2006 4:17:26 PM , Rating: 2
It is shocking how many people have chimed in on this topic with no knowledge at all about any aspect of the issue being discussed. Why even try to comment on something is you don't understand the basics of what is going on?

1. HD-DVD drive has nothing to do with games.

2. HD-DVD drive has nothing to do with high definition games, this is supported already by the 360.

3. HD-DVD drive will play movies at the same resolutions the xbox 360 currently supports, which means no 1080p, sorry 1% of the population.

4. It has been widely reported that the PS3 won't deliver much better graphics, if any better at all.

5. All best guesses are NOT placing the price of the add-on as equal to the system price. These are clearly bad guesses and contrary to what has been clearly stated by the creators of the add-on. Guesses by the talking heads of the video game industry have this priced at around 100 dollars, which makes this add-on incredibly savvy on the part of MS. At that price, the add-on will be great for MS and the HD-dvd format.

6. Calling Sony the messiah of gaming requires a great deal of self-delusion. In the previous generation, it was clear that MS had the superior hardware. Sony had already been established and that is the only reason they continued to lead the market. The tables have turned my friend. MS has the advantage in its first-to-market status, its price-point, and its game library. It has recently equalized their position with developer support when they stole rockstar and Square exclusivity from Sony and now both developers will produce for both companies equally. Who of any quality only produces for Sony now? Yet MS's own studios produce great games, and they have Bungie and Bioware. The paradigm is shifting people.


RE: not a fan
By MrSmurf on 5/10/2006 6:54:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
2) Expanded capacity. HD-DVD discs are able to hold more data, thus allowing for larger games on a single disc. There have supposedly been complaints about typical DVD's being restrictive, but as a previous poster here points out, game developers don't seem to have run out of room just yet on typical DVD's.


lol, you're silly! What freaking game needs that much data? lol. Not to mention the obvious of spliting the install base. Take a look at how many PC games ship on DVD now days? Very few and those are usually collector's editions, lol.


WTF - by them both!
By smilingcrow on 5/13/2006 8:55:09 AM , Rating: 2
With Hollywood studios split between their support for DVD-HD and Blu-ray, if you want to be able to watch ALL HD film releases you are going to need both types of players. So, go out and buy a PS3 and an Xbox-360 and make sure that your HD TV has plenty of DVI/HDMI/Component connectors so you plug all that sh*t in.

Forget consoles for HD video, wait until someone releases a dual format HD video player. Someone has already announced they are working on the silicon to support this and a major CE company has also stated that they will bring out a dual format player.


Cost
By Visk on 5/10/2006 1:00:53 PM , Rating: 2
I really hope it doesn't end up costing as much as the Xbox 360




RE: Cost
By EidolWays on 5/10/2006 1:47:12 PM , Rating: 2
If it does cost as much as the Xbox 360, there's a simple solution: Wait. Because it's not a controller or something similar, the price of the technology used in the drive should go down, meaning that the price of the add-on will also decrease. This will be no means by a necessary add-on, so waiting shouldn't be too big a deal. I could be wrong about the price decrease, of course. MS could keep the price artificially high, though that would be somewhat surprising.


RE: Cost
By Zoomer on 5/11/2006 10:07:05 AM , Rating: 2
Well, nice way of hiding costs. Microsoft(TM).


RE: Cost
By fidodido on 5/10/2006 3:01:18 PM , Rating: 2
I just read that M$ accidentally included pricing on one of their E3 reports on Xbox.com. Assuming that the error was correct, the price of the HD-DVD add-on will be $199.

Thus, $399+$199 = $598

But, as many have pointed out the 360 will require a HDMI output in order to display the HD-DVD content in its proper resolution. Thus, our final cost is: $399+$199+$40 (assuming the HDMI connector will run the same price as a VGA connector) = $638.


RE: Cost
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 5/10/2006 3:16:43 PM , Rating: 2
Fido, do you have a link for this?


RE: Cost
By fidodido on 5/10/2006 8:09:36 PM , Rating: 2
I read this on Digital Bits: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents - the update for "late 5/9".

It's by no means official, but it's certainly not unbelievable.


RE: Cost
By Kilim on 5/10/2006 3:27:52 PM , Rating: 2
Hope it isn't fanboyism striking here, with an attack on MS. Is that price for real?

I do like that we have the choice of buying it or not for that price. I will never have a need for an HD-DVD drive but I do own and enjoy my 360. Getting a machine as powerful as a 360 for a decent price is better than spending more for the same gameplay capabilies with a PS3.


RE: Cost: Lowered Xbox cost
By ViperROhb34 on 5/11/2006 12:09:06 AM , Rating: 2
That price could absolutely be correct, although it's been mentioned in this forum once I've seen and is obviously possible that MS will most likely lower Xbox 360 price or the core and premiums current prices up to 100 dollars- ESPECIALLY immediately prior to PS3's launch.. I already have the premium, but I know people wanting to get one and holding out on MS promise that they would lower the cost of the 360..


RE: Cost: Lowered Xbox cost
By Zoomer on 5/11/2006 10:09:17 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft promised to lower prices, but not how much they'll lower it by.

A $100 decrease would mean that they kept their promise; so would a token $10 decrease.

With the prices of PS3 at launch as they are, microsoft has no real reason to lower prices.


RE: Cost: Lowered Xbox cost
By ViperROhb34 on 5/11/2006 5:02:19 PM , Rating: 2
:O

Yeah.. very true..
I know with the announced prices MS really isn't in a pickle.. I wonder if they dont sell too well in the USA how long it would take Sony to drop the price.

I really know very little about the numbers Sony expects to produce and release in the good ole USA ..

Anyone ?


take a deep breath everyone
By masteraleph on 5/10/2006 12:51:14 PM , Rating: 2
Alright, everyone repeat after me: Microsoft does not care about the next generation format wars, other than a minor preferance for HDDVD due to mandatory managed copy. The selling point of thier system is not the HDDVD drive. The selling point is a bunch of games already (160 by the time the PS3 launches), some more good ones coming out this fall, and XBOX Live (which will be expanded to include Windows Vista as well). Microsoft is releasing this not as an incentive for more people to buy the 360, but as an accessory for people who already own the 360 (although, if the add-on runs in the $100-150 range, it's not inconceivable that you could get the addon + a premium 360 for less than an HDDVD player come this fall, and the same price or less than the low end PS3). The only thing this does for MS is a) presumably make them money and b) give HDDVD a bit of a leg up.




RE: take a deep breath everyone
By BigLan on 5/10/2006 1:06:57 PM , Rating: 2
I think they do care, insomuch that if BluRay fails then sony has lost a selling point for the PS3. I also expect the 360 + HDDVD player combined price to be less than the PS3.


RE: take a deep breath everyone
By SunAngel on 5/10/06, Rating: -1
RE: take a deep breath everyone
By shadowzz on 5/10/2006 1:32:23 PM , Rating: 3
I'm sorry, you were a troll the day you got here. You have one of the lowest comment ratings i've seen:

http://www.dailytech.com/CommentUser.aspx?user=204...


RE: take a deep breath everyone
By Furen on 5/10/2006 2:18:41 PM , Rating: 1
Jeez, talk about imbeciles making uninformed comments...

First off, the 360 premium is $399 RIGHT NOW. There are rumors of a price drop to $299 for premium and $230 for core around November, which would follow MS's "promise" to have yearly price drops (of course this is not for sure).

Secondly, Toshiba's HD-A1 is $500, so "best guesses" that the HD-DVD addon will be $399 are obviously wrong, (and, frankly, retarded). Just think about it, a Toshiba HD-DVD player that includes the drive, the decoding chips, the HD encoder, the caches, the IR receptor, etc costs $500 and I'm sure the price for the bare drives (which is the only thing the Xbox 360 will need, since it can use its hardware for the rest) will drop significantly in the next 6 months.


RE: take a deep breath everyone
By CKDragon on 5/10/2006 2:28:11 PM , Rating: 1
The 360 Premium went for $400 at launch, genius.

You're "best guesses" on the price are horsecrap, too. No one knows for sure how much it's going to be and you have a credibility rating of about, oh... 0.83/10 according to Anandtech.


RE: take a deep breath everyone
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 5/10/2006 3:17:34 PM , Rating: 2
It's out of 5.


RE: take a deep breath everyone
By CKDragon on 5/11/2006 9:49:54 AM , Rating: 2
Ha, OK.

0.83/5

Congrats, SunAngel!


RE: take a deep breath everyone
By Decaydence on 5/10/2006 4:29:08 PM , Rating: 2
Heh, how can this SunAngel guy even operate a PC with his intellect? Imagine chastising a large group of people for using incorrect information when it is, in fact, you that has no idea what in the world he is talking about. These facts that you continually get wrong are widely available on-line. The fact that you keep getting them wrong makes me wonder if you are doing a spoof of Sony zealots in the spirit of a Stephen Colbert. It doesn't matter if your facts are correct, it only matters that they FEEL correct.


sleak move
By dome1234 on 5/10/2006 3:55:37 PM , Rating: 2
great move from microsoft not to release price. The price announcement of ps3 overshadowed their conference and pretty much everything about playstation. Releasing a price will only serve to help sony as hd-dvd, thou cheaper than bd, but not much. I won't be too surprised to see a 200 bucks price tag. It's probably just the drive with hdmi with all the processing done with x360.




RE: sleak move
By Ticholo on 5/10/2006 4:50:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's probably just the drive with hdmi with all the processing done with x360.

But is that possible with just a USB connection? 2.0 goes to around 480MBps, right? (not Mbps, is it?)
Would that be enough to read the disc to the Xbox and send the data back to the external drive for HDMI output?
I think that integration is a best choice, and that Sony did well to integrate BD into the PS3. And this regardless of format or brand preference.


RE: sleak move
By BigLan on 5/10/2006 5:02:56 PM , Rating: 2
USB will work - it can do throughput of at least 30 megabytes/sec, or 240mbit/sec. This is a lot more than the bitrate of HD content, which (iirc) tops out at 40-50mbit/s.


RE: sleak move
By Ticholo on 5/10/2006 5:19:28 PM , Rating: 2
Great then.
If MS puts an HDMI port in the device, $200 is a good price for having a full featured HD-DVD player for everyone with an Xbox 360 already.


RE: sleak move
By BigLan on 5/10/2006 4:59:03 PM , Rating: 2
$200 sounds about right. By fall I expect a PC HDDVD drive to be about $100, add on $30 for the enclosure/usb hub, $10 for a cable and then the usual markup on peripherals and you're about there. I really am expecting a combined 360+hddvd price to be less than the PS3.

Hopefully the price of this will drop as drives become cheaper over the next couple of years.


By smilingcrow on 5/10/2006 6:40:49 PM , Rating: 2
The move from VHS to DVD as a playback format was a no-brainer, with the move to DVD recorders as a replacement for VHS being a lot slower.
I wonder if the shift from DVD to the competing HD formats will be anywhere near as quick.
How many people currently have a HD TV in their home at the moment or are prepared to buy a new set at current prices? If you don’t, then the cost of an XB360 add-on HD-DVD or a PS3 is dwarfed by the cost of a new TV.
For teenagers that want to play games in their bedrooms, they can I assume plug their HD games console into a PC monitor at no or fairly minimal cost, depending on whether you currently own a PC screen or not.
But surely, until HD players & TVs are affordable and common in the living room, the cost of the hardware and media is going to remain high and the usual catch22 ensues. DVD overcame this because you didn’t need a new TV; would it have been successful so quickly if you did?
Sony, as a film studio and manufacturer of consumer electronic goods has a vested interest in blu-ray way beyond the PS3. If PS3 doesn’t support HDCP & a digital video output then I think they’ve lost the plot.

When you add together the cost of upgrading your TV for HD, the competing HD format war confusion for consumers, their general apathy towards upgrading to higher quality products, at least in the audio market (see DCC, DAT, DVD-A, SACD), and it may well turn out to be a long uphill struggle for HD video discs.

Don’t forget, HD TV broadcasts are pretty rare outside of the US and Japan; Europe is very low key when it comes to HD TV. So, there isn’t the need for HD TVs. Ironically, HD TVs are often being miss-sold in the UK, because they are demoed with HD content being streamed from a PC, when the people buying them only have access to SD content and aren’t prepared to pay the high cost to subscribe to the new HD satellite service being introduced this month. Maybe once they’ve bought a HD TV that they don’t need, it will be easier to sell them a HD disc player ?

Personally, I’ve gone straight from VHS to a digital PVR (twin digital terrestrial tuners) and bypassed DVD recorders. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

I hope the new formats do take off, because I’d like a cheap optical burner for my PC that supports 15/25 GB discs that are affordable. I’m counting on HD video at home to take off to bring the prices down. And if someone can please crack blu-ray and HD-DVD that will help to bring the media costs down to.


By Decaydence on 5/10/2006 8:52:51 PM , Rating: 2
You have really gotten me thinking with this comparison to DVD-A and SACD. It is definately possible that we could see a similar reception by the public, at least at first.

The only thing that I see as making the comparison faulty is the fact that most people don't have an ear for the quality advantage of the superior audio formats or just don't care about the difference between them and CD's. It is further mitigated by the fact that it is very rare for someone to have an audio system that can truly take advantage of the additional quality; whereas any HD tv will get the benefit of the new video formats. HD tends to be much more obvious and less esoteric to the average person than audio quality variations.

Think about when you go into an electronics store. You can very easily look at one tv with hd and then compare it to a tv running non-hd content. Now think about what needs to be done to compare two audio systems and try to explain to the unitiated what makes truly good sound. Most people think anything sounds incredible if its extremely loud. So not only is it nearly impossible to get them to pay extra for the equipment that will allow them to enjoy the extra audio quality of these formats, but you then have to demonstrate the abstract idea that one disc with identical music as another somehow sounds better.

Full disclosure: I used to sell consumer electronics. It would take about 15-20 minutes to sell a HD tv whereas an audio system could take upwards of 2 hours or more.

I do love SACD and DVD-A and will definately be getting HD-dvd when it becomes available.


My random thoughts
By XtremeM3 on 5/11/2006 2:09:31 AM , Rating: 2
I just had to make a few comments about some of the things I've read. For the record I guess you can consider me an xbox fanboy because that's the only cosole that I have and still play. My PS2 and 80 something games for it sit and collect dust. The flexibility and superior graphics over PS2 is what made me make the switch...So I guess you would say i'm a fanboy of the greater technology.

Right now I do not own an XBOX 360. I have thought about buying one but I have waited to see Sony's official offerings for the PS3. Personally I think that the integrated blu-ray player is smart. It will put blu-ray players in homes and that's what sony wants to do. I wouldn't bat an eye at spending 600 bucks on something I wanted - IF i wanted blu-ray. Right now I don't know what I want, but I know I don't want a bunch of stuff that becomes obsolete because the format went away.

Some of you are thinking about this the wrong way. People like all-in-one's. The fact that the PS2 played DVDs was a great thing. Most people probably did not buy the PS2 for it's DVD capability, however, having their gaming machine play the "great new format" enabled owners to buy DVDs instead of VHS because they had the capability.

To the topic at hand, I think that the external HD-DVD player has it's pluses and minuses. It IS a cheap alternative for an HD-DVD player for those who already own an xbox360. The 400 bucks they spent is done and gone. Now those individuals have 2 options.

1. Buy an HD-DVD add on for a decent price (lets go with the $200 estimate) so the price will cost the individual 200 dollars for an HD-DVD player. Not a bad deal.

2. Buy a standalone HD-DVD player. 500 dollar range...

I don't know about your math, but mine tells me this...If i had an xbox360 the external is a no brainer. To me it's either the 400 i spent plus 200 or the 400 I spent plus 500. Last time i checked 600 is less than 900.

For those who don't have a 360 yet, the prices will drop, so if they are considering a purchase of both at the same time it needs to be made at that time. However, that stand alone dvd player will not play xbox360 games. So if the price difference is within even 200 bucks, why not get something that does more?

The HDMI issue could come into play but hasn't yet. Yes the digital out "CAN BE" required for HD playback...IF the disc producer chooses it to be. So far I don't think any of the HD-DVD discs out have that requirement. How popular that actually becomes remains to be seen, naturally discs that do include such protection and limits will be blasted all over the internet and put on many people's "no buy" lists.

Lastly, the comment of "who needs that much space for games DVD's are enough" is ludicrous. To say that 8 gigs is enough space for a game is ignorace. Games grow with technology, always have. I remember playing games that were a couple hundred K (if that) and saying "oh yeah look at those graphics. With the popularity of HDTV the demand to put more and more realistic content with HD capabilities WILL expand the size of games. With the new formats game designers no longer have to say "ok, this is what we want to to and our limit is 8 gigs" Incorporating these new players for future gameplay would be a must for both MS and Sony. Games will get bigger and later on people will say, "wow you remember when games used to come on DVD and were only 4-8 gig?"

Just like "Remember when games came out on Single layer DVD?"
"Remember when games came out on 2 CDs?"
"Remember when games came out on 1 CD?"
...
"Remember when games came out on 1MB floppies?"

Ok, i'm done rambling, if you read this far, congrats.




RE: My random thoughts
By Decaydence on 5/11/2006 5:01:01 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
To say that 8 gigs is enough space for a game is ignorace. Games grow with technology, always have. I remember playing games that were a couple hundred K (if that) and saying "oh yeah look at those graphics.


Actually, your comment is "ignorance". The comparison is so fallacious it is bordering on rediculous. Those games were small because you were dealing with low quality sprites. Last time I checked, we are still going to be dealing with 3d textured models through this generation. The only difference will be higher resolution textures. So for this model, we need only look at the PC realm of things, which has been using the same quality textures that will be required for HD games for a while, without the need for anything larger than dvd-9.

Furthermore, you treat "remember when games came on single layer dvds" as something from the distant past that we have already forgotten about. Here is a news flash for you. 98% of the last generation's games were on a single layer dvd. Are you telling me with your vastly superior intellect you have come to the conclusion that higher resolution textures will account for games being more than twice the size? Please, don't cast warrantless dispersions because you don't understand the subject matter.

Finally, in your heirachy of "past" storage formats for games, you act as though a feasible next step isn't multiple dvd-9's. If I had the choice of saving 200 dollars while having to use 2 discs to enjoy a game or spending an extra 200 and being able to have everything fit on one, I'm sure as hell not going to be throwing 200 dollars away; especially when it could mean an increase in game prices as well.

I can assure you, you are no smarter than the execs who formed this strategy that are being paid millions to do nothing but think about this for months at a time. You seem to have no problem thinking about it for 5 minutes and slamming people as ignorant because they don't agree with your hamfisted and clumsy assessment of the situation; otherwise i wouldn't be coming at you so hard.


RE: My random thoughts
By XtremeM3 on 5/11/2006 7:09:50 AM , Rating: 2
While I apologize for hitting such a sore note on you, something I said really got you riled up in a tissy. I did however state that these were just my thoughts...I didn't know that I had to translate that further by saying "HEY THIS IS NOT FACT BUT ONLY MY OPINION." Last time i checked I still had the right to voice that. I've travel alot for work so maybe I should stop and check to make sure I still have that right.

The rate of growth -if held- will pass the dual-layer dvd storage very soon (not necissarily months but within a couple years definitely). Hell I've got regular XBox games that are upwards of 7 gigs. That's just the way it is. And while you prefer to save 200 bucks and play on 2 discs, I'd rather spend 200 bucks and play on 1 and have HD-DVD playback ability. So which of us is right? Neither... we're both allowed to make our own decision on that. Cost is an issue so personal incomes come into play. To some people 200 dollars is alot, to others it isn't. It's a point that can be argued to death but in the end comes down to each individuals personal budget and preference. As far as whether or not the correct business move was made by offering this, well that will be seen in time. "WARNING MY OPINION COMING AGAIN!!!!" I think it was a good move and I think they'll sell right off the shelves.

I'd bet my M3 against the statistic of 98% of games were single layer. I think that was just made up. But I've been proven wrong before.

Anyway, sorry i got you all riled up. Have a nice day.



RE: My random thoughts
By XtremeM3 on 5/11/2006 8:36:13 AM , Rating: 2
Just a couple of things to support game sizes getting bigger. An old article i know but relevant:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4153813.stm

"EA, a leading games developer and publisher, added that the delivery of high-definition games of the future was vital and Blu-ray had the capacity, functionality and interactivity needed for the kinds of projects it was planning. "

Also another decent bit of writing on benefits of Blu-ray.
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/unions/read_article....

Bigger discs mean more storage, which means more options. That's all i'm saying :)




RE: My random thoughts
By Decaydence on 5/11/2006 4:43:04 PM , Rating: 2
I have absolutely no problem with people expressing opinion. I love to discuss opinions and debate the finer points. However, you expressed faulty information as fact, and then called the rest of us ignorant for not knowing these "facts". If I say the moon is actually the fecal matter of a huge space dragon, I can't then say, "well, thats just my opinion". Opinions are based on facts, or at least should be. Stating incorrect facts are not opinions.

About the percentage of games being single layer. You were right, the number isn't 98%, it is 97%. I hardly think the single percentage point negates my point. Btw, 98% wasn't my opinion, it was an incorrect fact. I'll gladly admit that I misstated the truth by 1 percent.

While it certainly is your opinion that you would rather pay 200 bucks and use only one disc, bringing that up is pointless. The discussion isn't about what makes you happy, it is about what is going to be best for the most consumers. If Sony bases its entire business model on one dude (one who goes out of his way to assert his ownership of an M3 a little too much), then they deserve to fail. Sure, some people would like to spend extra on hd-movie playing and then some of those people might find it important to avoid having 3% of games use multiple discs, but lets not forget that Microsoft's solution will come in at around the same price to cater to one of those groups, yet they can also cater to the much larger group of people unwilling to spend extra for an unproven format.

Read http://www.gamesfirst.com/?id=1132 for an analysis of the situation tempered by fact.


Blue Ray
By AllYourBaseAreBelong2Us on 5/10/2006 11:38:18 AM , Rating: 1
PS3 with its integrated Blue Ray unit looks more appealing.




RE: Blue Ray
By shadowzz on 5/10/2006 11:45:14 AM , Rating: 2
blu-ray


RE: Blue Ray
By epsilonparadox on 5/10/2006 2:23:39 PM , Rating: 2
At $600, no game machine looks appealing.


RE: Blue Ray
By Decaydence on 5/10/2006 4:19:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
PS3 with its integrated Blue Ray unit looks more appealing.


I don't see how blu-ray being integrated is any advantage at all. Estimates of the HD-dvd addon have it at a price point that will make the premium 360 w/ the add-on the same price as the broken PS3.


RE: Blue Ray
By ViperROhb34 on 5/10/2006 11:21:57 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I'm hearing MS wants the player to be around 100-120 dollars.. which would put the 'Premium' Xbox 360 at the same price as the Who would want to buy $500 dollar PS3 with no HDMI, etc, etc...

But again 360 has an advantage.. there are actually titles out on HD-DVD to watch ! AND... If I'm considering buying an HD-DVD player at best buy for 499.00.. I'll feel ok about spending 100 or so for the addon..

All in all.. even if the addon only supports 720p ( which is very possible ) that actually looks better for movies then 1080i... 98-99% of the HD Big Screen Community out there doesn't yet own a 1080P Widescreen and for all intents an purposes the Cable industry ( when they finally do it across the USA in 3 or 4 yrs ) will likely go with 720p anyways.. so most sets won't need to offer 1080p for awhile or as a price point for people looking for affordable HD Tv's


By MrKaz on 5/10/2006 11:53:55 AM , Rating: 2
If Microsoft keeps the games in DVD, I don’t see why there couldn’t be a more expensive model with HD-DVD, like the existing versions with and without the HD.

Going external is a bad idea... especially if it is going like the news say…




By Furen on 5/10/2006 2:03:03 PM , Rating: 2
Ok, first, games will always be DVD only so throwing HD-DVD into the consoles makes no sense. Most people are not interested in the HD DVD formats (HD-DVD and blueray) but having a cheap addon for the xbox360 takes care of the argument (by fanboys) that the PS3 is a good deal when compared to the cost of an Bluray drive plus a console. Even if the drive sits on store shelves (and MS takes a loss on them) having the drive available but not forced onto you gives you a flexibility that the PS3 will lack. Making a different SKU with the drive integrated would be insanely stupid, in my opinion, since if these dont sell well then you'll have whole systems sitting in wharehouses, rather than just an attachment.


By Decaydence on 5/10/2006 4:21:52 PM , Rating: 2
Nicely done Furen.

I don't see why going external is such a bad idea? There are no indications the end result will be in any way hampered when compared to having it internal. Plus you get the flexibility that Furen talked about.


By ViperROhb34 on 5/10/2006 11:36:17 PM , Rating: 2
I agree overall.. but thats why we have these forums..i'm not all knowing myself.

Reality is.. HD-DVD, unlike Blu Ray, doesnt cost alot more to manufacture then DVD does. It would seem logical at some point MS will make the Xbox 360 come with the HD-DVD unit as the current units come with the DVD drives. Especially when cost on HD-DVD drive/parts come down in the coming year. Both MS and Sony KNOW they are taking a loss on these Consoles and will likely for the next two years..

Until then they have to offer HD-DVD to people who would like to spend 100 - 120 on this addon instead of buying a Toshiba HD-DVD for 500 dollars.. The only good thing about buying a Ps3 with Blu-ray for 600 ( 640 with tax ) is you won't have to buy a Blu Ray player for 1000 dollars as they are listed now for pre order from Best Buy. Sony is hoping that this will help their BLu Ray cause.. because they can't go any cheaper really and they need Blu Ray to succeed.

I just don't think the average American will go for it.. not When HD-DVD supports all the same resolutions and it way cheaper and even the blank disc you'll record on will be cheaper to make for companies selling them..

Lets say I'm wrong.. they make everyone spend 100 dollars for an addon of they want to watch HD-DVD .. well they still won't have to buy that HD DVD player for 499.00

I think one reason the addon is going to be fairly cheap is the obvious...Xbox 360 already has the hardware in it that will be doing all the decoding and major work that would be found in a full blown $499 HD-DVD player.. all they are making you buy is a drive and interface that plugs into the XBOX 360.. so in reality.. the XBOX 360 is more the HD-DVD player - as far as the hardware - and not the optical disc reader in the addon..


HDMI
By DigitalFreak on 5/10/2006 11:50:38 AM , Rating: 1
I still want to know how they plan on handling HDCP without a digital output on the 360. What happens when studios decide to start downrezzing content sent over Component / VGA connections?




RE: HDMI
By DigitalFreak on 5/10/2006 11:51:24 AM , Rating: 2
Will also be interested to see how it will be handled on the low end PS3 for Blu-Ray.


RE: HDMI
By chiefbozz on 5/10/2006 12:15:38 PM , Rating: 2
I believe MS understands this problem and will also make a HDMI adapter for the system itself before the HD DVD drive hits shelves.


games
By Wwhat on 5/10/2006 3:25:58 PM , Rating: 2
Already on PC some games fill a whole DVD or more, so if you want to really go full resolution on a HDTV and are going for big textures you might need to put a game on HD-DVD for the space is gives, so who knows perhaps you'll get games that are HD-DVD only in the 'near' future.




RE: games
By Decaydence on 5/10/2006 4:33:44 PM , Rating: 2
What PC game requires multiple dvd-9's? Anyway, if a game comes around that requires more than a dvd-9 offers, they will simply use multiple dvd-9's. It would cost less to use multiple dvd's than one next-gen disc.


umm Know
By ItsallaboutGaming on 5/10/2006 9:54:00 PM , Rating: 2
What?? I don't think its prudent for any gameing system to have anything like this unless its for one thing...gaming. Heh, why can't the makers figure out its only about gaming not DVD playability. HELLO its a gaming consol not a computer wannabe.... I can get external DVD players alot cheaper then $100.00 and it will work with any pc. Please, Please get back on the gaming track and quit trying to compete with computers.
Ok i'm done now :|




RE: umm Know
By Decaydence on 5/11/2006 5:04:21 AM , Rating: 2
Sure you can get an external dvd player for under 100. What part of HD-DVD drive don't you understand. First off, they are not yet available as external players for pc's. Secondly, when they are offered, they surely will not be anywhere close to 100 dollars. Finally, there is nothing more prudent for a company than to give its consumers OPTIONS. You are not forced to buy this. Resistance to it makes no sense and it certainly isn't taking them off the "gaming track".


Better pictures
By chiefbozz on 5/10/2006 12:20:02 PM , Rating: 3
You can get some high res pics of this accessory and more from MS.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/press/e32006/xbox360acce...

Enjoy




"Nowadays you can buy a CPU cheaper than the CPU fan." -- Unnamed AMD executive

DailyTech Poll
Which web browser do you use on your primary personal machine? 






44 Comments







botimage
Copyright 2009 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki