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Is the new ultimate edition necessary or excessive?

Windows 7 -- like previous version of Windows -- comes in several different versions aimed at the retail market.  In Windows 7's case, there's Home Premium, Professional, and Ultimate.  Many have noted that while Professional is a definite step up from Home Premium, Ultimate holds little appeal.  So is there more to the story?

There, definitely is, but the picture still isn't that pretty for the Ultimate version.  First there's the price.  An Ultimate upgrade costs $20 more than a Professional upgrade.  However, given that there's no pre-order for the Ultimate edition, it effectively costs $120 more.  A full retail edition copy of Ultimate also costs $20 more.

A $120 price bump for an OS is hard to swallow for consumers, but some nice features might help to sugar coat it.  Ultimate does have eight known extra features more than the Professional edition, which sounds promising -- until you dig into them. 

Three of the features -- BranchCache, Enterprise Search, and DirectAccess are geared for specialized enterprise applications.  In other words most home users, even those who run medium-size personal networks, will find these of little use.  The three most publicly touted features are a full language pack, which includes support for 35 languages, Microsoft Bitlocker, and AppLocker.  The first feature seems possibly useful, but it’s questionable why Microsoft didn't just include it in all the editions.  Bitlocker and AppLocker on the other hand, are little used features from Vista Ultimate which even the most avid Vista Ultimate users would have trouble recalling.

Finally, there's Virtual Desktop Interface and Virtual Hard Drive Booting, two little-touted features that comprise the only real meat that the OS might have for a limited crowd of home users.  The Virtual Hard Drive booting in particular might come in handy as it provides a way to make multi-boot Windows 7 systems using a VHD image with Windows 7 on it.  However, be warned, VHD installs of Windows 7 lack many useful features such as the ability to hibernate.

As a final note, it’s worth mentioning that Microsoft has stated that the Ultimate Edition [may] come with "Unspecified Features".  What these features are is anybody's guess -- perhaps they will provide a compelling reason to go Ultimate. 

Windows General Manager Mike Ybarra has stated in a Microsoft PressPass interview that the Ultimate edition is the OS of choice for "enthusiasts".  He explains, "There is a small set of customers who want everything Windows 7 has to offer.  So, we will continue to have Windows 7 Ultimate edition to meet that specialized need.  Windows 7 Ultimate edition is designed for PC enthusiasts who 'want it all' and customers who want the security features such as BitLocker found in Windows 7 Enterprise edition."

That talk sounds very inspirational, but when "everything Windows 7 has to offer" boils down to a handful of little-used features, the price bump seems questionable.  It seems far more likely that most true enthusiasts will pick the full-featured Windows 7 Professional edition, although a few avid virtualization fans may still pick up Ultimate.

And many customers already feel burned by Vista Ultimate, so the wounds are still relatively fresh when Microsoft touts Windows 7 Ultimate.



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Not little used features to me...
By Sunday Ironfoot on 7/8/2009 9:12:16 AM , Rating: 3
They may be 'little used features' to you, but for people who want the Ultimate Edition, obviously these features are important to them and are of some use. If you don't need any of the extra features then the solution is don't bother buying the Ultimate Edition, doh!

For me, the single biggest reason for going Ultimate is BitLocker.




RE: Not little used features to me...
By Aberforth on 7/8/2009 9:17:31 AM , Rating: 1
oh please, there are plenty of freeware drive encryption tools. Bing.com is your friend.


RE: Not little used features to me...
By Lord 666 on 7/8/2009 9:37:30 AM , Rating: 5
That can be controlled with Active Directory group policy?

With Data Loss Prevention a key focus this year and the new provisions of HITECH, Bit Locker should have been included with Win 7 Professional.


RE: Not little used features to me...
By Smilin on 7/8/09, Rating: 0
RE: Not little used features to me...
By Lord 666 on 7/8/2009 9:51:05 AM , Rating: 2
Please re-read the official Microsoft website; http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/produc...

Noticed yesterday on Newegg.com for the Professional pre-order, it incorrectly lists Bit Locker as an included feature. I pre-ordered it anyway, but for my company the Bit Locker is an easy way to meet compliance requirements.


By Smilin on 7/9/2009 3:24:45 PM , Rating: 2
My bad.

It does bitlock thumb drives now though. I saw that demo'd over a year ago.


By PhoenixKnight on 7/8/2009 5:34:28 PM , Rating: 2
Ultimate is intended for enthusiasts, not companies. How many people do you know that have Active Directory running on their home networks that have a need for group policies to control encryption software?

Nonetheless, I agree with you that this should have been included in Professional.


RE: Not little used features to me...
By hclarkjr on 7/8/2009 10:12:17 AM , Rating: 5
i plunked the extra down for vista ultimate and am very disappointed with what MS has released to date for it. i will not be buying the ultimate version of 7 if i ever decide to buy it as i am happy with SP2 for vista


RE: Not little used features to me...
By oab on 7/15/2009 11:18:15 PM , Rating: 2
But you got Windows Dreamscape and Windows Texas Hold-em poker! How could you possibly be disappointed?


RE: Not little used features to me...
By DonkeyRhubarb on 7/8/09, Rating: 0
RE: Not little used features to me...
By MrBlastman on 7/8/2009 12:39:04 PM , Rating: 5
Google is best friends with your information. They know everything about you... everything.

And they'll keep it forever. There is no escape... there is no escape...


By rudolphna on 7/8/2009 3:09:42 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, but I still like google better. Search results are still better than Bing, at least for me. Not to mention the search page is a bit busier on bing.


By Arribajuan on 7/8/2009 10:01:41 AM , Rating: 5
The problem with Vista versions is that you were forced to get Ultimate to get media center + professional features.

So it was a ripoff.

With Win7, you can just get the pro version and get everything in "lower" versions.

So with Win7 you do get a choice, if you do nto get for bitlocker, Pro version will be fine.

With Vista you had to pay for bitlocker even though what you wanted was media center.


RE: Not little used features to me...
By Locutus465 on 7/8/09, Rating: -1
By dav115 on 7/8/2009 1:54:08 PM , Rating: 3
You are so cool...


By bhieb on 7/8/2009 10:12:57 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
He explains, "There is a small set of customers who want everything Windows 7 has to offer

Actually we all want everything Windows has to offer, we just don't want to pay extra for it.


RE: Not little used features to me...
By Moishe on 7/8/2009 11:01:02 AM , Rating: 5
Jason... this article is full of sh*t.

I'm sorry, but the OP is right. There are features that some people want and a mere $20 over the Pro version is peanuts when you consider that most programs to replace those features (assuming that replacements are available) will almost certainly cost more than $20.

quote:
given that there's no pre-order for the Ultimate edition, it effectively costs $120 more

You can't be seriously comparing a special, limited pre-order price to the regular price and have that as the "effective" price difference. You then use this "effective price difference later on in the article as a way to say that W7UE is not worth $120 more. This is basically grasping at straws in order to bash W7 Ultimate Edition.

Your little article does a good job of listing the features but overall the tone is highly negative against Windows 7 Ultimate Edition. This should be labeled clearly as an opinion piece and not "news".

As if you don't already know, this kind of stupidity is why your "journalism" is continually bashed on DT.


By theapparition on 7/8/2009 11:31:37 AM , Rating: 4
Agree that Jason should have in no way compared the limited time pre-order price to the MSRP of ultimate.

However, what was missing from this article is the main reason I will be upgrading to Ultimate.

You can't do an in-place upgrade from Vista Ultimate to Win7 (any flavor except ultimate). This is worth the $20 (or $120 for that matter) to me.

While clean installs are obviously the better solution, I'm at a point where I don't want to have to re-install the many programs I have. And considering I just bought a new computer, there is no reason to upgrade at this time.

For my companies computers, we will accelerate the upgrade cycle and buy systems with Win7 preloaded.


By StevoLincolnite on 7/8/2009 11:37:07 AM , Rating: 4
That, and the majority of the article is discussing features, which Dailytech already did, some time back here: http://www.dailytech.com/Updated+Windows+7+Edition...

Even comes with a Table so it makes comparing the editions all that much easier, only thing that other Page doesn't discuss is the pricing, but that is being discussed on this page, and on another old page some time back.

So this really isn't new news, as it's already published/covered by Dailytech before.


RE: Not little used features to me...
By molgenit on 7/8/09, Rating: 0
RE: Not little used features to me...
By Moishe on 7/8/2009 1:19:15 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
An Ultimate upgrade costs $20 more than a Professional upgrade. ... A full retail edition copy of Ultimate also costs $20 more.


So, there is a $20 premium over Pro whether you buy an upgrade or retail.

It seems pretty clear. The $120 figure is absolute BS , and this is why such false comparisons should never be made.


RE: Not little used features to me...
By molgenit on 7/9/2009 8:57:17 AM , Rating: 4
Did you even READ what I wrote or is your comprehension of math that bad? CURRENTLY you can get the Pro upgrade for $100; in the future it will cost 200. CURRENTLY you have to pay $220 for the upgrade to Ultimate. That’s where people get the $120 dollar figure, is that simple enough for you? I said it was stupid for Microsoft to offer a discount on the 2 lower models and not for Ultimate. By their own pricing they are saying the Ultimate edition only has $20 more worth of features, so why do they discount the pre-orders of Pro to $100 and NOT offer a similar discount to Ultimate users for $20 more? If I wanted to upgrade it would in fact cost $120 MORE NOW than if I had Vista Pro. IF I downgrade I have to do a clean install on every machine which, due to the nature of the scientific software we have installed, necessitates a call to every vendor on every machine to be re-authorized. While the extra memory would be nice an upgrade the cost of $220 for a upgrade that was driven primarily by the fact that the Vista brand is hopelessly tarnished is too costly and a downgrade would be equally costly in man hours.


RE: Not little used features to me...
By Moishe on 7/9/2009 4:22:06 PM , Rating: 1
I'm fine with math and I read just fine.

My point is: wait until the ultra-special upgrade deal runs out (July 12, 2009) before you start making comparisons. The regular upgrade prices are not $120 in difference.


By molgenit on 7/10/2009 7:32:03 AM , Rating: 3
And I'll ask why? Why do you HAVE to wait to make a comparison?
If you HAVE Vista Ultimate or Home or Pro why should you wait until the sale is over to make a comparison. Wouldn't it make sense to upgrade at the best price? When you are trying to decide whether you should buy something you do not take into account any difference a sale might make in the prices between two items? Your right at the end there will be a minimal price difference, but the point people are making is NOW if you are going to upgrade to windows 7 it’s a great deal for home and Pro version upgrades, after the prices go up it MAY be a good deal depending on your hardware (good for laptops and older or ram starved systems) not as good for high end systems. For Ultimate users; it is a poor choice and Microsoft choose to ignore the people who bought their high end product, so I for one hope window 7 ultimate sales absolutely tank (not that that will hurt Microsoft much, but many companies are taking certain customers for granted). I think many Ultimate users will go for a Pro downgrade (even though it will require a clean install) which is a MUCH wiser decision NOW since it has most of the features that drove Ultimate sales. I would in a heartbeat if I was not in the unusual situation we are in.


By Alexvrb on 7/8/2009 3:02:40 PM , Rating: 2
It's a Mick article. A Mickle, if you will. It was bound to happen.
quote:
The first feature seems possibly useful, but it’s questionable why Microsoft didn't just include it in all the editions.

Yes, lets dictate to companies what they should include and not include in any given version of their software. The EU already does it, its what all the cool kids do. Heck, why stop at Microsoft? Lets go after ZoneAlarm software packages next. I mean, look at Anti-Phishing. It's questionable why Check Point didn't just include it in all the editions.


By Athena on 7/10/2009 2:09:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You can't be seriously comparing a special, limited pre-order price to the regular price and have that as the "effective" price difference. You then use this "effective price difference later on in the article as a way to say that W7UE is not worth $120 more. This is basically grasping at straws in order to bash W7 Ultimate Edition.

The article is an entirely approprate complaint about the marketing strategy for Windows 7. Saying that consumers who wanted/needed both MCE and domain participation and willingly paid a premium to get both in Vista are now faced with a $120 penalty over all other Vista users does not constitute "bashing W7 Ultimate ".

I don't think anyone should get anything for free; if people want BitLocker, AppLocker and MUI, then by all means, they shoud pay for the extra features. Why though, are "enthusiasts" being discrimated against? If Microsoft wants to re-purpose Ultimate to focus only on "enterprise", fine...just give consumers a cost effective way to downgrade to get the version they wanted in the first place.


This sucks
By Aberforth on 7/8/2009 9:12:05 AM , Rating: 2
I think Vista Ultimate users deserve a free upgrade license to Windows 7 Pro or Ultimate.

Ultimate Extras my foot, I'll never fall for that again.




RE: This sucks
By hemmy on 7/8/2009 9:45:39 AM , Rating: 2
Why would you have bought it for the Extras anyway? Pretty foolish.


RE: This sucks
By Griffinhart on 7/8/2009 10:15:34 AM , Rating: 4
Ultimate extras were not the reason to buy Windows Vista Ultimate. They were just, well, extras. The real reason to buy Vista Ultimate was to get all the features on Both Home Premium and Business editions.

Business didn't have the Media Center Application while Home Premium didn't have Remote desktop, previous versions, Domain support...

I got Ultimate for those features. I'm not planning on getting W7's ultimate edition since Professional has all the features I need.


RE: This sucks
By robinthakur on 7/10/2009 9:08:28 AM , Rating: 2
Actually no, Ultimate Extras were a legitimate selling point for Vista Ultimate. Certainly MS seemed to think so. I got it for Media Centre, but I'm sure lots of people were lured in by things like Dreamscene and Hold 'em.

I think MS treated the Ultimate owners pretty shabbily as the question of why there were so few Ultimate extras was rarely answered properly.



RE: This sucks
By Moishe on 7/8/2009 1:25:47 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think Microsoft would be in any way obligated to do that for you of "should"... but it would be a decent sales gimmick if each copy of retail ultimate got a free copy to the next OS' ultimate version. That would save you at least $50 and a lot more people would be willing to buy the ultimate edition just for that.


Tired of Ballmer
By nct on 7/8/2009 10:19:17 AM , Rating: 5
Can't you guys find a picture like the Firefox girl to post for Windows articles? I'm tired of seeing Ballmer's ugly mug every day.




RE: Tired of Ballmer
By RDC on 7/8/2009 11:37:30 AM , Rating: 2
I was just about to post the same thing! Don't you all feel like we've seen enough of Ballmer's presentation face?


RE: Tired of Ballmer
By Silver2k7 on 7/8/2009 5:00:03 PM , Rating: 4
How about this one :)
http://joeyjohnson.net/resources/Windows+XP+with+G...

Beats looking at Steve's monkey dance every single Ms article ^^


Piracy
By h0kiez on 7/8/2009 9:26:23 AM , Rating: 5
Maybe the Ultimate edition is MS's way of identifying the pirates because no doubt 90+% of the people running ultimate will have pirated it.




RE: Piracy
By PhoenixKnight on 7/8/2009 5:44:20 PM , Rating: 3
I'm going to pirate Windows 7 Starter Edition, just to be different.


Unspecified features?
By MrPoletski on 7/8/2009 8:42:46 AM , Rating: 5
They are normally referred to as bugs ;)




Additional tuners for media center
By zozzlhandler on 7/8/2009 9:44:58 AM , Rating: 2
I believe that the ultimate edition also allows more tv tuners (5 of each kind?) than the other editions (2 of each kind). This is the case for Vista, anyway. Again, not exactly an earth-shaking feature, but useful to some, perhaps.




By AWeav09 on 7/8/2009 10:45:57 AM , Rating: 3
I don't think this is correct. According to SuperSite for Windows, Home Premium, Professional, and Ultimate all support 4 tuners of each type.

http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/win7_skus_compare...


Media Center...
By killerb255 on 7/8/2009 12:28:39 PM , Rating: 3
...was my main reason for getting Vista Ultimate, while having access to the features of Vista missing from Home Premium (Desktop Fax, ability to join a domain, no artificial 16 GB RAM limit).

Now that Windows 7 Professional is going to have Media Center (which Vista Business does not have), I see no reason to get Windows 7 Ultimate...




One feature missing...
By Hieyeck on 7/8/2009 8:53:51 AM , Rating: 2
The Multi-lingual User Interface pack...

Only available in Ultimate, no one at Microsoft was able to clearly answer whether or not I needed it to view pages and run apps with different native languages.




RE: One feature missing...
By Pudro on 7/8/09, Rating: 0
2 of 8 are needed
By kevinkreiser on 7/8/2009 11:51:55 AM , Rating: 2
language support and the virtual desktop are the only features that are worth it.




Why not just go with 2 versions?
By Skott on 7/8/2009 11:55:57 AM , Rating: 2
I think MS would be better off going with just two versions of Windows 7. Do like XP and just call it Home and Professional and leave it like that. I know the idea is to make more money with more versions but it would confuse and upset their buyers a lot less.




There is always XP Mode
By Sam99 on 7/8/2009 12:02:30 PM , Rating: 2
XP mode could be useful and is only available with Windows 7 Professional and Ultimate.




By someguy123 on 7/8/2009 6:58:50 PM , Rating: 2
nothing subjective about this topic and no new news to speak of.




One other feature?
By noirsoft on 7/8/2009 7:39:19 PM , Rating: 2
I haven't seen this in the feature roundups because it's pretty subtle. Please point me in the right direction if I just missed it.

In Vista editions less than Ultimate, there are only three options for desktop image placement: Stretch to fit screen, tile and center. Ultimate added "Fill" & "Fit" modes that preserve square pixels and look much nicer for desktop images that aren't the same aspect ratio as the screen. This might be considered part of "DreamScene" but that's advertised mostly as having movies as the desktop image.

In windows 7 Beta and RC, which are Ultimate, the full five options are present. Do the Pro and lesser versions of 7 have these desktop placement modes, or are we limited to just the basic three from Vista? It's worth the $20 for me to be able to have the two extra modes.




Instead of Ultimate...
By riku0116 on 7/8/2009 11:14:00 PM , Rating: 2
They should call this the Windows 7 Pirate Edition ;)




By sxr7171 on 7/9/2009 2:11:46 AM , Rating: 2
Can't you buy Professional and be offered a $20 upgrade to Ultimate?

Sure as day, it isn't worth a penny more than anyway.




Just the Facts
By really on 7/9/2009 1:34:34 PM , Rating: 2
I think most of the problem with "The Media" these days everyone wants to give their opinion instead of just providing the facts ie. news. It's like they don't believe we can make an informed decision about anything so they have to try and persuade us one way or the other. Just provide the facts and allow US to decide what is worthy or not of our extra $20.

Thanks now go write another article that is unbiased and reports only the facts, not your opinion.




By DJMiggy on 7/10/2009 11:42:20 AM , Rating: 2
Windows 7 Ultimate can give you a larger e-peen.




Microsoft Terminology
By sdegroft on 7/8/09, Rating: 0
Ultimate Shaft Edition
By marsbound2024 on 7/8/09, Rating: -1
RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By Smilin on 7/8/2009 9:43:39 AM , Rating: 2
Core languages (Spanish, French, German, etc..) are already included. Always have been.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By marsbound2024 on 7/8/09, Rating: -1
RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By invidious on 7/8/2009 10:08:14 AM , Rating: 4
Why would MS make everyone pay for the work they had to put in that will only benifit an extreme minority?

What does ethnicity have to do with language anyway, I know very few people who speak the language native to their ethnicity? Nationality is what matters here and in this nation we speak English.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By smackababy on 7/8/09, Rating: -1
RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By ClownPuncher on 7/8/2009 11:56:55 AM , Rating: 5
Let us re-word it so you won't cry yourself to sleep;

The vast majority of Americans speak English.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By Arribajuan on 7/8/2009 2:58:10 PM , Rating: 5
naaah... its spanish and you know it :P


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By ClownPuncher on 7/8/2009 3:46:27 PM , Rating: 4
Que?


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By smackababy on 7/9/2009 9:10:58 AM , Rating: 2
I've seen what comes after "We speak English here" and it is always "If you can't speak English, get out". That is usually followed by "Get rid of all those damn foreigners!" Especially after 9/11, the sentiment towards people from foreign nations has grown very negative. I am rather disappointed in America, to be honest.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By ClownPuncher on 7/9/2009 1:25:12 PM , Rating: 2
Part of the reason I love my country is because people from all over the world have come here(USA), and helped make it a better place.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By smackababy on 7/9/2009 2:23:57 PM , Rating: 2
I wasn't trying to implicate you thought that way. I would like to assume, because you post on a tech based site, you would be intelligent enough to not be so ignorant minded. But, I can't assume that for anyone anymore.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By kalak on 7/9/2009 11:48:05 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The vast majority of North Americans speak English.


Fixed.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By marsbound2024 on 7/8/09, Rating: 0
RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By MrPeabody on 7/8/2009 12:33:02 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. Also, it bugs me how bloated an operating system Windows is.

Er, hang on now . . .


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By smackababy on 7/8/2009 10:10:08 AM , Rating: 2
I don't feel it is discrimination. MS should offer obscure language packs but not include them in a major country release. There is no reason it should support small percentages of spoken language like Vietnamese or Tagalog for example. At least not in a US release.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By marsbound2024 on 7/8/2009 10:21:04 AM , Rating: 2
I wonder how hard it is to include that if they are going to have Windows released in Vietnam anyways? Can't they just port the language pack over to the US version? Heck, they actually do it already don't they with the MUI pack? They just make you pay for it. So isn't Microsoft making people pay for languages that they already support elsewhere around the globe? I am not necessarily going on an attack here, I just think they could simply have the MUI free since people around the world use Windows anyways.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By Etern205 on 7/8/2009 11:39:40 AM , Rating: 2
Here is a true story...

Went to an Asian book shop once and bought a game my mother wants to play. Inatalled on to my Vista Ultimate machine and the text was all jibberish.
Went online and download the MUI pack for that language, installed it, changed it in regional and language options and it's still the same thing.

Then I went and change the locale to that contry to see if tha help, it does not too much.

During vacation while I was at Asia I went out and bought Vista Home Premium OEM 64bit (in that navite language) which cost NT$4350 ($145USD).

After vacation, build a simple machine for my mother, installed that Vista I bought over seas and once again tried that game. This time the text was not jibberish and all works great.

The MUI pack does have a advantage over the language support buid into all editions of XP/Visat/Win7 like the abilit to change the entire Windows interface but, it's still got minor flaws where it cannot truly replace a native OS.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By ChronoReverse on 7/8/2009 11:54:17 AM , Rating: 2
In this case you simply made a mistake.

The MUI allows the interface of Vista itself to be in a different language. However, you were playing a game of a different language (something not affected by the MUI).

Therefore, you should have simply switched the system locale (in the Languages and Regions settings) to the language you wanted. This is included in every version of XP and Vista.


By NobodyImportant on 7/8/2009 2:32:45 PM , Rating: 2
This is correct - this is the only way to play some games. Be warn, however, that not all games like this. Back in the old days, some games like to write to the registry in their native language, and back then, XP don't like to read those, if you are using the English version of the OS. Not sure if Vista or Windows 7 fixed it or not (as I know some games just downright don't play in Vista no matter what you do).

The only problem with changing the locale is that some programs like to use that to use whatever language the installer will display language with, so unless you know how to read that language, you probably won't be able to read what the installer is saying(some people just "love to play" Japanese games without knowing Japanese).


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By Etern205 on 7/8/2009 5:50:29 PM , Rating: 2
Have you not read slowly for what I've said?

I changed the locale to that language and it did help, but not too much, thus the reason why I went out and bought Vista HP for that native language.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By Solandri on 7/8/2009 6:30:03 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I don't feel it is discrimination. MS should offer obscure language packs but not include them in a major country release. There is no reason it should support small percentages of spoken language like Vietnamese or Tagalog for example. At least not in a US release.

Here's the problem. Earlier versions of DOS and Windows didn't support these "obscure" languages. You had to buy a third-party add-on which added support for that language. Then Microsoft added support for these languages to all versions of Windows, driving the makers of these extensions out of business. Not that I was too upset - it needed to be standardized in a bad way.

But now that Microsoft has driven the competition out of business by giving away the feature for free, they are gonna start charging for it. That's what I have a huge problem with.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By Oregonian2 on 7/8/09, Rating: -1
RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By elgueroloco on 7/9/2009 7:03:38 AM , Rating: 2
Tagalog and Vietnamese hardly seem like niche languages to me. I live in the 10th largest city in the country, and the most common surname here is Nguyen. LA has a huge Viet community as well, same with OC, and so do parts of Georgia and Texas.

As for Tagalog, there were at least as many Filipinos in my HS graduating class as there were whites. I've never lived on a block that didn't have at least a few Filipino families.

Also, I currently use the Vietnamese language pack on my computer, and I'm going to be pretty irritated not to be able to do that anymore. And I'm not even Viet.

I think there is enough market there to justify inclusion.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By smackababy on 7/9/2009 8:42:26 AM , Rating: 2
As of the 2000 census 0.46% spoke Tagalog and 0.38% spoke Vietnamese. Minority in the fullest extent. These numbers have grown, I am sure, but not in a signifcant enough respect to warrant native support.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By Smilin on 7/8/2009 12:08:48 PM , Rating: 3
Do you have any clue at all what localization costs?

Major code changes that involve full regression testing cost less than changing a single sentence displayed in a dialog box. Why? because that sentence has to be translated into every language on earth.

If you think MS is discriminating then I challenge you to find a software company that expends more effort trying to reach people in other cultures. How many languages do you think OS X or Chrome support?


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By nemrod on 7/9/2009 10:20:47 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Do you have any clue at all what localization costs?


From 0 to excessive price...

When vista ultimate was sold in Europe the price was about twice of the US edition. (With the microsoft explanation: it's due to blabla... and "localization") and at the same time japanese version was around the same price than US one.

so basically 3 versions with a different defaut langage but the same ability to change to an other one and far different price.

Perhaps, the reason ultimate can't be pre_order is the ability to have an ultimate everywhere in the world at an US-price.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By Smilin on 7/9/2009 3:37:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
From 0 to excessive price...


The 0 cost is basically what you've been getting charged. The cost to actually implement localization is what I'm talking about. MS tries to do right by it's customers by providing all major languages for free.

Once you start adding the costs on for that language that accounts for 0.001% of the world population then who pays for it? Does MS pass the cost on to everyone or do they somehow just charge those that need it?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Pick one.

As far as "excessive price" goes... I don't know what went on there but I would like to know the whole story. If US and Japan were the same price but europe is twice (!?) the price of the US/Japan then maybe there is yet another nutbag EU requirement.

Honestly though.. MS is pretty cool about covering as many languages as possible. In most cases its free and in the corner cases it's what $20? I can find worse things in the world to gripe about.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By Moishe on 7/8/2009 11:04:29 AM , Rating: 3
So... $20 more is being "bent over"?

I don't get it. Most programs cost at least $30 for a single program. $20 for 8 extra features in an edition for enthusiasts seems reasonable.


RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By marsbound2024 on 7/8/09, Rating: -1
RE: Ultimate Shaft Edition
By elgueroloco on 7/9/2009 7:08:14 AM , Rating: 2
Well, I think it is pretty well known that Jason Mick is not only a rabid Apple fanboi/MS hater, but he is also a sensationalist who likes to blow minor stories out of proportion.

So this article shouldn't surprise you.


Fool me...
By deathBOB on 7/8/09, Rating: -1
RE: Fool me...
By smackababy on 7/8/09, Rating: -1
RE: Fool me...
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 7/8/2009 9:40:54 AM , Rating: 3
"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."


RE: Fool me...
By pequin06 on 7/8/09, Rating: 0
RE: Fool me...
By tdawg on 7/8/2009 12:46:41 PM , Rating: 2
One of my all-time favorite quotes. Thanks for brightening my Wednesday. :)


Remote Desktop!?
By Pjotr on 7/8/09, Rating: -1
RE: Remote Desktop!?
By Griffinhart on 7/8/2009 10:18:27 AM , Rating: 3
I'm fairly sure that's not true. You just need a PC with remote desktop, ie XP Pro, Vista Business and Ultimate, and W7 Pro or Ultimate.

Please provide a link stating this to be the case.


RE: Remote Desktop!?
By Griffinhart on 7/8/2009 10:22:16 AM , Rating: 3
http://www.wegotserved.com/2009/06/28/remote-deskt...

Yep, I am correct. You don't need to go Ultimate to use the remote desktop features under W7. No change here at all. In order to use that feature you will still need Pro or better, just like XP and Vista.


RE: Remote Desktop!?
By Pjotr on 7/8/09, Rating: 0
RE: Remote Desktop!?
By GreenEnvt on 7/8/2009 1:52:48 PM , Rating: 4
Home editions can still use RDP to connect to servers, just not the other way around.
If you want to connect TO a copy of Windows XP/Vista/7, the computer being connected TO has to be Pro/business or higher. You can connect FROM home editions to pro/server editions.
This is nothing new. While it would be nice to be able to connect in to home versions, it's understandable that they limit it to differentiate products.


RE: Remote Desktop!?
By Pjotr on 7/9/2009 7:03:02 AM , Rating: 2
I think it is natural to be able to access your Home versions via your Home server when you're out travelling, I do this on a daily basis with my computers at home, all Windows XP (I'm posting this from my Windows XP computer at home, while sitting at work). If I upgrade these to Win7 Home Premium (what a Home user should do I would say from the name) I can no longer connect to these home computers. Instead I need to buy the Professional or Ultimate version, which will (if rumours are correct) not be available via multi-pack licensing, the Family Pack. So instead of a good 3 licence Family pack deal to upgrade all my home computers, I can't or I have to pay for more expensive licences one by one.

Of course I understand market segmentation. But why a Home OS with a feature that won't work with the Home OS client? The feature is obviously NOT aimed at Professional users, being part of the "Home" OS...


RE: Remote Desktop!?
By Griffinhart on 7/8/2009 1:53:46 PM , Rating: 3
To be sure, I think that home versions should access the WHS remote features as well. I just wanted to point out that There is nothing new here. Home versions of XP and Vista couldn't use that feature either.


RE: Remote Desktop!?
By Pjotr on 7/10/2009 8:05:43 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, perhaps it's not so much the Windows 7 Home problem, more Windows Home Server. Windows XP and Vista both came out before Windows Home Server, so they would be excused. Now, with WHS available for home users, there is a feature in the server OS to access your home computers... but those home computers can't be accessed because you bought Home licences...

Get a clue Microsoft. Windows Home Server is the best product you have ever made. One of its features is to remotely access all home computers. Please let me do that!


"If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion." -- Scientology founder L. Ron. Hubbard














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