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Windows Phone 7 makes permanent changes to memory cards that makes them unusable with other devices. The changes reportedly can not even be reduced by formatting.  (Source: Engadget)
Yes, memory cards are supported, but Microsoft's latest OS seems to have a host of bizarre restrictions

There was much speculation over whether Microsoft would support memory cards in its Windows Phone 7 lineup, following comments by its project leaders indicating that it might not.  Well the phones finally hit the market last week and some models did have memory card support.  But perhaps it would have been better if they didn't.

Windows Phone 7 users are facing a pair of baffling issues surrounding the phone's memory card support.

First up, AT&T has warned users that they should only use only "Certified for Windows Phone 7" microSD cards with their Windows Phones.  The only problem?  No such cards currently are available.

According to supporting Microsoft documents, certification is more than "a simple matter of judging its speed class" and includes "[s]everal other factors, such as the number of random read/write operations per second, play a role in determining how well an SD card performs with Windows Phone 7 devices."

The second issue, and more critical issue is that Windows Phones essentially "break" users' memory cards making permanent changes to them that prevent them from being used with other devices.  Windows Phone handset manufacturer Samsung warns that once you insert your memory card into the phone, "it will no longer be readable or writable on any other devices such as computers, cameras, printers, and so on."

Samsung claims that the modification (whatever it may be) actually prevents you from even formatting your memory cards to reverse the changes.

Fortunately Microsoft doesn't appear to be intentionally ruining users' hardware as Apple has tried to in the past, but unintentionally ruining it is almost as bad.  If there's one thing worse than not implementing a much-requested feature it's implementing it horribly.

As the initial sales buzz works off, Microsoft must race to fix these issues or risk the public developing a negative perception of its new smart phones.


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Big Deal.
By Mitch101 on 11/15/10, Rating: 0
RE: Big Deal.
By joedon3 on 11/15/2010 12:26:28 PM , Rating: 5
It would be a huge deal to me, I use my media cards to transfer files between devices extensively! I'd be pissed if WM7 locked down my media card.


RE: Big Deal.
By Mitch101 on 11/15/10, Rating: 0
RE: Big Deal.
By nolisi on 11/15/2010 1:14:36 PM , Rating: 3
Fine, hook up the phone to a PC. What if the phone dies and you want to recover the data from the card (and don't necessarily want to buy another win7 phone)? I'm willing to bet a good percentage of the users who purchase a Win7 phone won't want to purchase another.

How 'bout upgrading the chip and reusing the card? Many users are not technical enough to know how to do a low level format. They're usually just technical enough to to stick the card in another device/system

As far as claiming the mem card connectors aren't built for tons of memory swaps- my G1 had a very accessible port for the microSD card- I had more music than I could keep on one 16 GB chip and would regularly swap out microsd cards for long road trips (thank god for blue tooth and USB connectivity in my Ford). It's possible and my biggest disappointment with the phones available today is that HTC and other manufacturers seem to have abandoned easily accessible MicroSD cards.


RE: Big Deal.
By nolisi on 11/15/2010 1:17:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
who purchase a Win7 phone won't want to purchase another.


Allow me to clarify- users who purchase a Win7 phone that dies won't want to purchase another.... wasn't criticizing the product in this case :).


RE: Big Deal.
By Mitch101 on 11/16/10, Rating: 0
RE: Big Deal.
By PorreKaj on 11/15/2010 1:20:37 PM , Rating: 5
Remember you can only transfer files thru Zune portal, or whatever the program is called.

It's not like it will pop up like an android phone as an external memory device


RE: Big Deal.
By Mitch101 on 11/15/10, Rating: 0
RE: Big Deal.
By VitalyTheUnknown on 11/15/2010 2:22:29 PM , Rating: 2
I want to keep my stuff on my own memory cards and transfer files between different devices without fear of crippling something in the process and "Windows phone 7" is a big let down in this respect, and as far as I know there's only one Windows 7 phone from "Samsung" that actually has memory slot and it replaces your internal memory and kills all your settings and what's not, because of Microsoft's ridiculous rules that manufactures of hardware can not break, let's face it, this is BC.
I will never trust all these cloud storage services that Microsoft and other companies are so pushing on us, thanks, But No Thanks another Microsoft employee on DT.


RE: Big Deal.
By damianrobertjones on 11/15/10, Rating: 0
RE: Big Deal.
By joedon3 on 11/15/2010 2:50:19 PM , Rating: 5
I've removed my card from my Galaxy S over a hundred times within 2 months. I transfer a lot of files.

You don't use "removable" media, I do.....


RE: Big Deal.
By omnicronx on 11/15/2010 3:34:53 PM , Rating: 1
For what though? Do you have an SD card reader on your computer? Are you using it for something else? (i.e switching between your camera etc)

Why can't you just attach a USB cable to your phone?

Not saying you don't need it, but it seems as though there are many valid alternatives.

I also think this is going to be a reality in the phone space soon enough, even for Android. In its current state they essentially have to keep their OS filesystem (which is not FAT based) and a FAT filesystem for memory cards. If I remember correctly even allowing the ability to use the card for apps was no small feat by Google and the Android team. (they most likely had to have two different file systems in use on the same card at the same time). You cannot take the card out, put it in your windows PC and access the non FAT portions of the card.


RE: Big Deal.
By VitalyTheUnknown on 11/15/2010 3:23:10 PM , Rating: 2
I'm on the road, took a couple of pictures with my DSLR and need to send them to my family as quickly as possible, how am I suppose to do this without a swappable storage on my smart phone?


RE: Big Deal.
By Mugur on 11/15/2010 3:54:01 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know of any DSLR that works with microSD cards... :-)


RE: Big Deal.
By VitalyTheUnknown on 11/15/2010 4:07:25 PM , Rating: 2
And you also don't know what card adaptor is.


RE: Big Deal.
By Adul on 11/15/2010 4:15:34 PM , Rating: 2
There are adapters to fit a micro SD card into a SD card which you can easly pop into any of these DSLRs.

Canon - XSI, T1i, T2i, 50D, 60D, 1D MKIV uses both
Nikon D3100, D90, etc.

Not to mention the slew of Micro 4/3 DSLR out on the market now


RE: Big Deal.
By Adul on 11/15/2010 4:17:54 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Big Deal.
By jabber on 11/16/2010 6:49:57 AM , Rating: 2
Trust me, they really arent that bothered if truth be known.

They can wait.


RE: Big Deal.
By omnicronx on 11/15/2010 1:26:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Fine, hook up the phone to a PC. What if the phone dies and you want to recover the data from the card (and don't necessarily want to buy another win7 phone)? I'm willing to bet a good percentage of the users who purchase a Win7 phone won't want to purchase another.
What happens when your iPhone dies and you want to recover the data? You are SOL! I'm going to assume that like Apple, when you plug in your device it will perform a backup.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, either you are stuck with a base fat filesystem so that it can be read on pretty much any system in which you are severely limited in what you can do, or you don't.. Android is going to have trouble in the future because of this, mark my words.

They use a completely different filesystem for Android itself than what is used on your SD card..


RE: Big Deal.
By Da W on 11/15/10, Rating: -1
RE: Big Deal.
By Gio6518 on 11/16/2010 8:22:29 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
especially google who can't make a dime off their android OS.


Yeah they dont make anything of Android

http://www.androidcentral.com/eric-schmidt-says-go...

in other news they are already making over 1 billion annually, because of android (marketing/ads)


RE: Big Deal.
By damianrobertjones on 11/15/2010 2:43:48 PM , Rating: 2
and yet millions use the iPhone, as closed as it is


RE: Big Deal.
By monkeyman1140 on 11/19/2010 4:02:37 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah they're fun until the battery dies, or you realize 8gb isn't enough.


RE: Big Deal.
By Mitch101 on 11/15/10, Rating: -1
RE: Big Deal.
By Fritzr on 11/16/2010 2:14:00 AM , Rating: 2
In re #1. Bad guy gets the phone, pulls WP7 only microSD card and plugs it into his WP7 phone. This personal phone then displays all that info to whoever is holding the phone.

Proprietary format does not secure your data, it simply forces the thief to use a compatible card reader.

Now if you were allowed to design your own one off FS that no one else has access to, then you might consider the unreadable FS to be a security level...


RE: Big Deal.
By Fritzr on 11/16/2010 3:05:27 AM , Rating: 2
Should have read a few more comments ... egg on face ... this system does make the card unique to the handset :)

This phone is using the memory card as a memory expansion and the format is essentially erased. The FAT, BAM or whatever other system the FS uses to track data blocks is probably stored in the soldered memory and the low level format on the card is erased, with the card being used as raw flash-RAM.

It should be possible to write a new low level format to the card, but from what is said elsewhere the tools for doing that are not yet available.

With luck it is something simpler so that the suggested fix of rewriting the first 4k block fixes the card, but until that fix is found, then the card is tossed in the trash with the phone if the phone gets damaged.

Would be nice if it could be pulled for use in the replacement phone. But that can only be done if the new device is allowed to write to the card.


RE: Big Deal.
By Reinman on 11/15/2010 2:39:13 PM , Rating: 2
Assuming people buying smartphone can afford buying memory card. I like what microsoft have done, they were thinking more on a business side. For me this is more of a security. If i lost my phone i don't want anybody have access to my memory card files. Besides who would want opening their phone all the time, removing batteries to take out memory card and put it back again. Lots of phones used USB cable now to link it to your PC.


RE: Big Deal.
By AstroGuardian on 11/16/2010 6:55:22 AM , Rating: 1
The memory card price is so low that i wouldn't even bother to opening the phone to remove it and move it to another device.


RE: Big Deal.
By nafhan on 11/15/2010 1:02:07 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I saw a 16gb micro SD for $11 the other day, and they commonly go for ~$20. We're not talking about a huge investment here. It's also worth noting that on the WinPhone 7 devices I've seen, the memory card location is not conducive to easy insertion and removal. Stick it in and enjoy your extra storage space. It would obviously be better if this didn't occur, but I really don't see it as a big deal (as long as people know about, of course).
I agree with you on the formatting thing, too. Unless this is physically breaking something on the device, there should be some way to get it back. Although, the guys at Anandtech tried it with common Linux and Windows formatting tools and couldn't get it to work.


RE: Big Deal.
By Mitch101 on 11/15/2010 1:05:34 PM , Rating: 1
Someone might suggest to them using the old X-BOX Hard Drive prep utility to zero out the first 4096 bytes of the device. ;)


RE: Big Deal.
By omnicronx on 11/15/2010 1:22:17 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I've seen, the memory card location is not conducive to easy insertion and removal.
Its done like that for a reason, they are most likely using a scheme similar to what we see in MS Home server, in which they essentially create 'virtual arrays' to make all the storage drives appear as one.

There are many advantages associated with this with one big disadvantage, you can't remove said storage once it is in use.. But I believe the pro's mitigate the con.

Think of it like using raid (lets assume without redundancy), you can't remove one drive from an array and expect it to work. Nor can you take said drive and attach it into another machine without completely reformatting the drive.


RE: Big Deal.
By leexgx on 11/15/2010 4:24:49 PM , Rating: 2
should really only get class 6 SD cards (even thought most win7 phones seem to be using class 4 SD cards) they are bit to a lot faster then class 4


RE: Big Deal.
By leexgx on 11/15/2010 5:10:25 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Big Deal.
By leexgx on 11/16/2010 2:22:33 AM , Rating: 2
ops wondered why there was no post on the other reply :)

(anandtech link is for cant format the SD once its been formatted on the W7 phone)


RE: Big Deal.
By omnicronx on 11/15/2010 1:18:59 PM , Rating: 4
5) its actually a good thing for users. Memory is completely transparent from the user, everyone appears as one big drive.

6) Ask WM5/6 or Android developers how fun it is having to work with different memory cards of different speeds, some devices have some do not.. etc etc.

7)If anyone knows of the troubles external SD troubles can cause with a true smartphone OS, its Microsoft..

8)This does not break the cards, it would be akin to unplugging one of your raided hard drives and getting mad that you can't read the filesystem when you hook it up to another machine. Its probably a generic warning that you won't merely be able to pop it in and format it normally, but... I really doubt a tool won't be released to gain use of the card again.(i.e some kind of special formatting tool)

Ms actually did EVERYTHING right on the implementation of SD cards. The big miscue here is the fact none of their 'supported cards' are out yet.. Though I'm sure if you use a higher end card you will have no problems.

That being said, I think the days of putting in your cheap expandable memory into your smartphone has come to an end.. unless we start seeing two slots, one for the main memory, one for true removable storage. From a performance/standard standpoint, its just not possible to have an all around good user experience for everyone while some use subpar hardware. (assuming people will want to put apps on their sd cards)


RE: Big Deal.
By Reclaimer77 on 11/15/2010 7:16:13 PM , Rating: 3
Agree. Everyone wants their cake and eat it too. They could have always pulled an Apple and given no SD option, but they would have been slammed for that too. How dare MS give people the option to expand the memory of their devices!!??


RE: Big Deal.
By CZroe on 11/15/2010 8:58:19 PM , Rating: 2
That's a mighty big assumption. Standard SD mostly differs from MMC in that they added rarely-used DRM functions. MS is likely using one. When SDHC was introduced, the spec said that anything over a certain speed was considered class 6, which was the maximum specification, so any class 6 mSDHC card should work if read/write cycles are the only concern like the article says. On the contrary, users are reporting class 6 16GB A-Data cards that are ruined by the devices and class 4 Kingston cards that are recommended, so do not trust their explanation.

As far as buying as much as you ever intend to use with the device: That's good, but what about when you sell it and upgrade to a new device? Shouldn't you be able to use YOUR card again? Why is it a permanent part of what is now someone else's phone?


Get the facts
By GreenEnvt on 11/15/2010 12:41:04 PM , Rating: 5
I don't own a Win7 phone (have a galaxy S) but this is overblown.
First off, if you put in a SD card and ignore the warning on the slot, NOTHING happens. The phone ignores the card.
The only way to "ruin" the card is if you power the phone up while holding down 3 buttons to get into format mode, and then choose to format it.
To know how to do this, you must have read Samsung's website or have been told how to do this by someone who has. Therefor you should have also seen the notes saying your card won't be readable in other devices anymore.

Yes Windows 7 phones can make a sd-card non-readable in other devices, but you have to specifically tell it to.




RE: Get the facts
By FaaR on 11/15/10, Rating: 0
RE: Get the facts
By Da W on 11/15/2010 1:22:58 PM , Rating: 3
Yes it does so to use the SD card like it's own internal memory, and it was also an incentive for manufacturer not to ship devices with only 512MB of space because they also support SD card expentions (like so many android devices). It's been very clear to anyone who did a little ready about WP7, it can support SD card, but as an expension to internal memory only. Why would anyone complain about this, you can transfer files via wi-fi for christ sake.


RE: Get the facts
By omnicronx on 11/15/2010 1:36:30 PM , Rating: 3
There is very much so a good reason, just because they seem to be beyond you does not mean it does not exist.

From consumer standpoint - Memory is completely transparent to the user and acts as one big drive.

Technological standpoint - Storage ACTS AS ONE BIG DRIVE!!!

In the end developers and most end users will embrace, and the few that won't probably had no interest the platform anyways and will go to Android.

Either way it has external storage, something that neither of the other two closed smartphone OS's have..


RE: Get the facts
By kmmatney on 11/15/10, Rating: 0
RE: Get the facts
By omnicronx on 11/15/2010 3:26:35 PM , Rating: 2
No, and it would be unacceptable if it stayed that way.

I'm just going its more or less an inability to read whatever file system (or in this case garbled file system) to even format it.

I would be very surprised if a tool is not released soon to deal with this issue.

There are many things that can make it seem like your SD card is 'permanently destroyed'.. For example if you format a USB drive in OSX, it will be default format it using a guid parition table and ext3 which can't be read by windows natively.


RE: Get the facts
By Topweasel on 11/15/2010 4:10:21 PM , Rating: 2
They don't. All it does is create a "partition" that windows doesn't recognize. Delete the partition, create a real partition, and your all set. To most people though the SD card is worthless.


RE: Get the facts
By leexgx on 11/15/2010 4:29:13 PM , Rating: 2
not that simple the SD is completely useless ones it has been formatted on the win7 phone

anandtech or some other site has tried it from win7 and linux and boot up disk tools just says I/O error that's it super light paper weight :) if its not in the phone


RE: Get the facts
By leexgx on 11/15/2010 4:54:21 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Get the facts
By Reclaimer77 on 11/15/10, Rating: -1
By The Imir of Groofunkistan on 11/15/2010 12:49:04 PM , Rating: 5
Breaking news...encrypted hard drive won't work in another computer. Your headline is a hit piece and you should fix it. It's not a surprise and it's not something they haven't already told you would happen.




Why Prevent?
By Silent157 on 11/15/2010 12:27:02 PM , Rating: 2
What's the point of preventing the memory card from being used on another device or computer? Some people want to load music/videos/pics on the memory card via those USB readers n such.

Just wondering...




RE: Why Prevent?
By The0ne on 11/17/2010 12:26:35 PM , Rating: 2
To compete with aholes like Sony and Apple obviously. Why should they make it any easier for the user and not protect their investments. You would think it makes sense to let it be open like many others but that's just whack in the business world, apparently.

I truly believe Microsoft has hire Creative to manage their SD designs.


Making up a problem
By Murst on 11/15/2010 12:37:26 PM , Rating: 4
Has Microsoft ever claimed that the memory was swappable?

I seem to remember Microsoft saying that, in general, the memory is not removable, but that it would be up to the OEM, and even at that point, it is unsupported by Microsoft.

Basically, the best analogy of the memory slot in WP7 is that of a part of a RAID array.

If you removed a drive from a RAID array and were unable to read the contents on another device, would you blame that on Windows/OSX/Linux/UNIX? And if you were to add a new drive to a RAID array, would you expect everything to work?

The point is that the memory slot in the WP7 device was never really meant to be removable. So when people remove it and find problems, they act surprised and start complaining.

Now, if Microsoft stated that the memory was swappable, then there would be another issue. But since they said that the memory is not swappable, you should expect problems when you try to replace it.




Is it that big of a deal?
By room200 on 11/15/2010 12:30:39 PM , Rating: 1
I don't have a Windows phone, and don't really want one, but is it really necessary to take a card that costs $4.99 and use it in multiple machines? I don't use the cards that often, but they're so cheap to have to reuse them.




RE: Is it that big of a deal?
By bodar on 11/15/2010 12:44:54 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe if you're using a <4GB card, but a 16 or 32GB card will set you back a lot more, esp if it's higher than Class 2.


SD Cards
By MGSsancho on 11/15/2010 2:35:43 PM , Rating: 3
Time to learn what the S in SD means. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#DRM_fe...
I'll give you a hint, it means Security. Microsoft us using built in features in SD cards to lock down the system. Sure this isn't as good as bit-locker but its very effective in terms of ensuring data integrity (parity.) Since Microsoft is requesting certified memory cards, they can assure certain features, performance and space characteristics. But really the memory card is under the hood, you have to remove the battery first and pull off the sticker voiding your warranty. The SD interface is really cheap to manufacture. No need to engineer a whole new interface and shove it down others throats (Sony.) In this case just use the Zune app to move files about.




Title CHANGE
By damianrobertjones on 11/15/2010 2:56:04 PM , Rating: 3
"Windows Phones Break Users' Memory Cards"

Please change to: "Windows Phones Break Users' Memory Cards that they shouldn't put in the damn phone in the first place"




Good article, but...
By adpr02 on 11/15/2010 3:36:19 PM , Rating: 2
Jason, good article, but I can always tell your writing from other editors'. I think the quality of your articles would increase substantially if you stopped injecting your personal opinions and thoughts in the article. You are here to report news (from what I understand), not to comment on it (that's what the comments section is for).

Example: "If there's one thing worse than not implementing a much-requested feature it's implementing it horribly."




RE: Good article, but...
By The0ne on 11/17/2010 12:28:44 PM , Rating: 1
That's like asking Jason to check his spelling/grammar and stop bitching to members about theirs. It's not going to happened!


win 7 phones are real nice
By Fanatical Meat on 11/15/2010 12:49:49 PM , Rating: 2
Oone thing to keep in mind only the Samsung accepts an external memory card but when you take the back off the phone to get to the memory card it has an yellow and black sticker covering it that says something like "DO NOT INSERT MEMORY CARD!". Pretty basic to me.....




Cloud?
By Spivonious on 11/15/2010 1:07:28 PM , Rating: 2
What's the point of the memory card when all of the data is stored in the cloud anyway?




No, no, no... just no
By damianrobertjones on 11/15/2010 2:42:23 PM , Rating: 2
"If there's one thing worse than not implementing a much-requested feature it's implementing it horribly."

No. MS didn't implement this feature, oems did and they shouldn't have done so as now it's led to this absolute RUBBISH and articles like it.

Apple locks their devices down, hard, just to escape this idiotic type of behavior and reporting. You are not ALLOWED to change the damn cards in these phones so maybe just leave them alone.

(Sent as my 16Gb HD7 sits next to me and the HD2 in the drawer)




.....Wtf comments am i reading?
By captainBOB on 11/15/2010 3:27:57 PM , Rating: 2
Good lord, the rationalization i'm seeing here....

If this was the iPhone 5 or whatever it will be named, and it had an SD slot, which only worked with a specific iOS approved card, and would fry all others everyone would cry foul, say "crApple" is being all closed and whatnot and say that they demand that they should be able to switch out the SD card whenever they want and will point to Android Device X which has this feature for cheaper. Then when someone mentions that it has cloud storage capability they merely get lols and fanboy accusations.

It doesn't matter how you much you try to rationalize it, this is a ridiculous move by Microsoft, security concern or not, this should have been an option in the settings.




FAIL
By morphologia on 11/16/2010 5:01:16 PM , Rating: 2
If Microsoft hopes to portray themselves as enemies of proprietarism, this is a bad way to do it. Memory cards are supposed to be removable, swappable, shareable...etc. This cattle-branding process is NOT what the consumers want...it is the opposite .




BOYCOT WM7 PHONES
By mavricxx on 11/17/2010 1:21:43 AM , Rating: 2
Another reason why I won't be buying WM7 phones! we should boycot these phones till they are fixed. Who wants to buy an expensive memory card only to try to transfer the media/data to your personal computer and have it no longer usable or not even trasferable to other phones.




My problem with it
By monkeyman1140 on 11/19/2010 4:00:34 PM , Rating: 2
My big problem with this whole thing is that Microsoft didn't have to make the card format incompatible, they CHOSE to make it incompatible.

Will we ever learn?




Good Lord....
By joedon3 on 11/15/10, Rating: -1
RE: Good Lord....
By joedon3 on 11/15/10, Rating: -1
RE: Good Lord....
By Flunk on 11/15/2010 1:28:00 PM , Rating: 2
It's not designed as removable storage, it's for expandable storage. The equivalent of letting change the hard drive in your PC.

The way it's implemented makes it easy to use but prevents removing the card. This is because it's stored as a spanned volume along with the built in memory.


RE: Good Lord....
By damianrobertjones on 11/15/2010 2:52:09 PM , Rating: 2
It's NOT removable. Half of the phones have a great big smadge of palstic in the way and stickers screaming 'Don't do it'


RE: Good Lord....
By ApfDaMan on 11/15/2010 12:34:18 PM , Rating: 2
windows phone seven is a shitload more than halfway right. it definitely still needs some polishing off but for an initial release i think that they have done extremely well.

yes i own a windows phone im not just a fanboi. i own the trophy.


RE: Good Lord....
By ApfDaMan on 11/15/2010 12:42:28 PM , Rating: 2
i should clarify that just because he rest of the OS is good this isnt an excuse for this oversight or mistake or bug or intentional sabotage or whatever it is.


RE: Good Lord....
By pandarus79 on 11/15/2010 12:54:46 PM , Rating: 2
It isn't sabotage, it is a form of DRM to prevent you from moving content to other devices by swapping in and out memory cards or even copying the data on the memory card. You are able to install apps, videos, music etc,. to the memory cards. If I had to guess, this was part of the deal they made with content providers/developers in order to allow this type of usage.


RE: Good Lord....
By omnicronx on 11/15/2010 2:04:33 PM , Rating: 2
This has absolutely nothing to do with DRM...

As I explained above, MS is combining both points of storage into one big drive to act as one.

Its like having a raid array, while there are countless advantages to using an array, one disadvantage is the inability to remove drives. You may not see it now, but the pro's will mitigate the con's. From a developer and a user standpoint.


RE: Good Lord....
By kmmatney on 11/15/2010 2:20:09 PM , Rating: 2
Doesn't explain why it destroys the SD card to a point that you can't even format it and re-use it. This permanently prevent the SD card to be used for anything else. I've never heard of this with any other JBOD devices or software (e.g Windows Home Server).


RE: Good Lord....
By mindless1 on 11/15/2010 2:43:02 PM , Rating: 2
What you "explained" is wrong and biased. The OS can logically combine and present multiple directories as one virtual one without any need to move away from FAT32 FS.

This is NOT like a RAID array, which when disassembled still leaves drives viable for future use via standard formatting. It DOES break the cards, to the extent that RIGHT NOW, you have no way to reuse them. That is a night and day difference.

There is NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER, NO PROS AT ALL. Everything you'd like to suggest as a pro can be easily implemented in other ways that do not make the card unusable elsewhere.

Even security measures such as encryption with a strong passphrase decrypter app could allow data security for the end user while retaining the ability to access the data on another device. This is all really simple stuff we solved in the computer and electronics industry years ago. Reinventing the wheel to break what used to work is either a terrible misjudgment or a design flaw - or both.


RE: Good Lord....
By omnicronx on 11/15/2010 3:17:47 PM , Rating: 2
There is CLEARLY a benefit, the fact you cannot realize the overhead and the issues you would hit if all you were doing was repointing mulitiple directories to one shows you don't know what you are talking about.

I also clearly said it was LIKE raid, not that it was raid.. As in data is written across both drives, and without redundancy, neither drive will work if either was was removed. (thus not being able to read it).. Yes the fact that right now you can't format it is a problem and I have acknowledged that, buts its more likely that we just plain can't read the current filesystem to format it, just like formatting a ext3 based drive in windows does not work either as it does not support the filesystem natively. You would have to use a special tool to do it.


RE: Good Lord....
By mindless1 on 11/19/2010 10:00:27 PM , Rating: 2
Other devices manage to do it... no problems including the mythical "overhead".


RE: Good Lord....
By damianrobertjones on 11/15/2010 2:54:03 PM , Rating: 2
You... are not.... supposed... to remove the DAMN SD cards. It's not a damn bug. You invalidate the warranty if you mess with card.


RE: Good Lord....
By damianrobertjones on 11/15/2010 2:53:06 PM , Rating: 1
Yes, they locked down the memory which is a good thing, it it's way.

(I'm sitting next to my 16Gb HD7 and never, not once, removed the 8Gb card from my HD2 in the tine I had it)


RE: Good Lord....
By The0ne on 11/17/2010 12:32:26 PM , Rating: 2
I think you've copied that statement from Steve Jobs, with minor changes of course.

"I'm using my iPad and never, not once, have a need for SD cards. So f-ck off zombie and hand me your money."


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