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Print 142 comment(s) - last by lexluthermiest.. on Aug 29 at 10:49 AM

The latest figures from IDC show that Microsoft and BlackBerry have a lot of work to to do to reclaim lost market share

In late July, IDC provided us with figures detailing the top 5 smartphone vendors worldwide. Samsung found itself atop the list, having shipped 74.3 million smartphones during Q2 2014.
 
This week, IDC is providing figures outlining how smartphone operating systems are fairing in the global market. Not surprisingly, smartphones running Android and iOS are doing quite well in the market. Over 255 million smartphones were shipped in Q2 2014 running Android OS, equating to a whopping 84.7 percent of the market. The shipment figures represented a 33.3 percent increase over the same period in 2013.
 
Smartphones running iOS were much further behind with 35.2 million units shipped during the quarter. Still, iOS device shipments were up 12.7 percent year-over-year (YoY) which was enough to secure 11.7 percent of the global smartphone market.

 
Windows Phone and BlackBerry smartphones, however, didn’t fare nearly as well during Q2 2014. Windows Phone shipments stood at just 7.4 million for the quarter, which marked a 9.4 percent decrease compared to the same time last year. This translated into lost market share for Windows Phone as well, as its overall share of the market fell from 3.4 percent to 2.5 percent.
 
There have been relatively few new Windows Phone releases during 2014, so consumers haven’t had much to get excited about. It also doesn’t help that wireless carriers aren’t too keen on promoting the platform, which means that sales reps in-store (and online) don’t have much incentive in recommending a Windows Phone device to customers.

 Nokia Lumia 530

Microsoft did roll out the budget-minded Lumia 530 to replace the incredibly successful Lumia 520 in July, and the company is expected to launch both the Lumia 730 “Selfie” smartphone and the Lumia 830 early next month. So not all hope is lost for the folks from Redmond, Washington.

 
 BlackBerry Passport (center)

As for BlackBerry, there appears to be no hope left for this platform, as shipments plummeted by 78 percent from 6.7 million in Q2 2013 to just 1.5 million in Q2 2014. As a result, BlackBerry currently holds just 0.5 percent of the market. IDC has already predicted that BlackBerry smartphone sales will reach zero percent by 2018. However, BlackBerry could end up reaching that number even quicker if it doesn’t have any success with its upcoming Passport and Classic smartphones.

Sources: IDC, Neowin



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I'm surprised
By Dug on 8/15/2014 10:14:54 AM , Rating: 2
I'm a little surprised Microsoft hasn't gained more traction.
I've never used a Windows phone, so I'm assuming people don't like the tiles idea.
Or maybe it has to do with iOS and Android's foothold on apps in the market.




RE: I'm surprised
By lostvyking on 8/15/14, Rating: 0
RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 11:00:20 AM , Rating: 3
"Leave it to Microsoft to take a phose OS that few seem to want and then pattern their entire Windows OS, essentially cramming it down our throats (in the usual "we are microsoft and we know better than you do what you want" fashion) and then wonder why it is not selling."

Agreed about the cramming, but it is a pretty good mobile OS. MS makes a lot of mistakes, but they also have a tendency to keep going, and years laters and many versions on, they get it and dominate. Look at Windows, and office. Both sucked rocks early on. Many years and many versions on, both are all that matters. IE, too, it started out horrible, then it dominated the market. On IE, they stopped trying and it sucks again now, but you get the point. WP11 might be something really special someday. LOL.


RE: I'm surprised
By Mitch101 on 8/15/2014 11:19:01 AM , Rating: 2
Android certainly dominated from a hardware perspective even when the OS wasn't polished. But Its running out of places to cram more hardware in. 2k screens don't make sense on a 5"-6" screen especially when it costs battery life. Tablet maybe not on a phone.

Apple had a polished OS but lacked being open on the hardware and still does to this day. Still no memory slot. Bigger screen will do well but if they dont open up it ends with 6.

Windows is in between they surpassed iPhone in Hardware and OS. They have the flexibility of the hardware of Android but they don't push the hardware envelope and people have a hard time understanding that they don't need to the OS is mature. Still nobody has surpassed the Pureview camera but most don't feel they need that much camera. Because of that they lack the cool factor. If Microsoft ever gets a clue on Advertising they can certainly make a comeback.

Microsoft has to stop being conservative and drive the market. Making the Mobile OS Free was the first step.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: -1
RE: I'm surprised
By bug77 on 8/18/2014 6:36:13 AM , Rating: 1
It is possible to have higher consumption AND a bigger battery and you can still hold the longevity crown.
From Anandtech: "This result is quite surprising, especially because we saw how the move to QHD significantly reduced battery life on the LG G3 compared to the competition".
http://anandtech.com/show/8314/galaxy-s5-ltea-batt...

LCD has a problem: smaller pixels let less light through, so you need more backlight to compensate (hell, the G3 introduces backlight throttling to cope with power draw). AMOLED apparently doesn't.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/18/2014 8:22:01 AM , Rating: 1
People insist one of these two things here, sometimes both:

1. Android is inefficient.

2. Large high res displays harm battery life.

Yet it's ironic that year after year the battery life king is a large high-res Android smartphone. No matter how you couch it, these people have been proven wrong over and over again.

Also I'm aware that OLED displays don't have a back light, I bring that up all the time here. I even said LG should have went with an OLED display. Of course that's easy to say sitting here on my keyboard not having to deal with the realities of choosing one component over the other for mass adoption.


RE: I'm surprised
By anothermax2 on 8/18/2014 9:25:59 AM , Rating: 2
Logic fail. Android having longest life and biggest screen doesn't prove either of those claims aren't true.

You'll need to find two phones with similar CPU/battery sizes to determine if scree size is a factor. You would need to find two phones with same cpu/screen/battery and different OS's to determine if Android is inefficient.

1) Android is inefficient.
2) Android has the largest screens.
3) Android uses much larger batteries to compensate, and thus have run time equal to or better than their small screen competitors.

All 3 of the above could be true.


RE: I'm surprised
By synapse46 on 8/18/2014 9:38:23 AM , Rating: 2
It is the carrier rom that is inefficient, I gain 12-15hours of life using a AOSP rom on an S3. I do not play games on my phone, if I lower the cpu frequency I can gain nearly a 2nd day in battery life for what is normal useage for me.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/18/2014 9:41:26 AM , Rating: 2
And that's just on current versions of Android. Android "L" is packing a whopping 36% battery life improvement over KitKat.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/07/examining-p...

You can try and drag this down into minutia, but in the real world the consumers don't care what you think.


RE: I'm surprised
By bug77 on 8/18/2014 12:56:41 PM , Rating: 2
Let's try this again:

quote:
QHD significantly reduced battery life on the LG G3 compared to the competition


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: 0
RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 12:32:41 PM , Rating: 2
That really isn't the point. The point was don't count MS out based on todays lackluster performance. Both Windows and Office sucked rocks early on. Many years and many versions on, both are all that matters in their fields. MS has time and money to get it right. CLEARLY not today, but 5-10 years later MS will still be there, all they need to do is focus like they did on Windows and Office.

Not saying it will happen, but it could. Google would have to screw the pooch to open the door, but right now Google is looking at the pooch with lustful eyes, not screwing it yet.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: 0
RE: I'm surprised
By ritualm on 8/15/2014 1:48:56 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I think if Windows Phone disappeared tomorrow, few people would notice and even less would care.

When it comes to Android, you say "more competition is good".

Change that to Windows Phone, and your tone becomes "less competition is good".

What happens when there is no viable mobile OS to compete with Android? You get the equivalent of AT&T in its monopoly heyday.

So, yes, I DO care if Windows Phone disappears tomorrow - not because I'm a WP fanboy like you always freaking insist me to be, but because we need these underdog mobile OSes to keep Google/Android on their toes.

You are wrong.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: -1
RE: I'm surprised
By ritualm on 8/15/2014 2:17:27 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Android is a completely free product in every way. It's also open source and CANNOT be controlled by Google or anyone else.

Wait until Android starts being a monopoly. At 85% market share, the signs are there.

When there is no more competition, who's going to stop Google from closing up its OS? You wouldn't be able to flash another AOSP ROM onto your Android device because at that point Google can dictate what you can and cannot do with it.
quote:
The competition you are talking about, where a monopoly eventually leads to inflated prices and anti-consumer behavior

It's already happened with AT&T.
It's already happened with Microsoft.
What makes you think it will never happen with Google/Android?

You cannot be this extremely myopic to not see the warning signs. They're all over the place.

So allow me to quote your post, word for word, verbatim against you:
quote:
Nice try, thanks for playing, but you are WAY off.


RE: I'm surprised
By sprockkets on 8/15/14, Rating: -1
RE: I'm surprised
By ritualm on 8/15/2014 6:38:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
sprockkets wrote:

You can be a monopoly all you want. You just can't abuse it like MS did every chance it got.

Where abuses can occur, abuses do occur, in fact abuses have occurred.

If you really think Google's Android can be a monopoly and not be harmful to everyone else, just watch.
quote:
Reclaimer77 wrote:

That literally makes zero sense. It's not even POSSIBLE for Google to dictate that!

Google's "Do No Evil"? Look how that worked out for them.

It's not possible right now because that will make its market share go down due to customer dissatisfaction. With a monopoly, why would it care about the rest of us? It's either all or nothing; you can't have it both ways.
quote:
Spuke wrote:

He makes no sense at all. Some of these guys are delusional.

If you want a marketplace with no competition, no innovation, absurdly high prices and no choice, feel free to go ahead and claim how 85% market share is not close to a monopoly.


RE: I'm surprised
By sprockkets on 8/15/2014 10:12:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:

Where abuses can occur, abuses do occur, in fact abuses have occurred.

If you really think Google's Android can be a monopoly and not be harmful to everyone else, just watch.


Abuse of what? Making sure there aren't 10 different incompatible forks of android that can't work together?

Sorry, I see how desktop linux distros work and I don't ever want that.

Skyhook can be an app on the phone all it wants. It just can't hitch a free ride onto the phone, just as "google search" isn't on a Lumia phone by default.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: 0
RE: I'm surprised
By Spuke on 8/15/2014 5:13:47 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
That literally makes zero sense. It's not even POSSIBLE for Google to dictate that!
He makes no sense at all. Some of these guys are delusional.


RE: I'm surprised
By Dug on 8/15/2014 6:27:15 PM , Rating: 5
"Android is a completely free product in every way. It's also open source and CANNOT be controlled by Google or anyone else."
and with this quote
"I really have no problem with it having huge marketshare. Because it's NOT controlled by a single entity. It's not controlled by ANYONE."

You are wrong, it is controlled by Google.

And this one "That's kind of what happens when you illegally engange in anti-competitve practices, and basically force all competitors products off the market or cripple their ability to function on your OS."

It is privately controlled by Google with source code only released when they deem fit because they are the developers. No one else can release Android because Android itself is a trademark. Can you take Android and fork it? Sure, but as soon as Google updates your open source project is dead. Once Google makes a closed source app, it abandons open source version. Music, Calendar, Keyboard, Camera, Messaging, Gallery, all gone.

Look what Google did to Acer, Samsung, and DroidX. Not exactly anti-competitive as you say.

http://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-...

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iro...

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/02/new-android...

No OEM can release a device with a forked version of Android if you are a part of the OHA.
All of Google's API's are closed source. They keep removing open source functions from Android to make sure that they control what people want and can get. Not to mention if you want Gmail, Maps, Google Now, Hangouts, YouTube, and the Play Store, you must abide by Google's approved devices, you can not use a competing OS (forked Android), and you can not pick and choose which of the apps you want.

"If a company does manage to fork Android and make something compelling outside of Google's ecosystem, there's the little matter of nearly every manufacturer being contractually barred from manufacturing a device that runs the new OS"

That's why Amazon is so limited on who can make a phone and what apps they can have on their store.
So much for open source.


RE: I'm surprised
By sprockkets on 8/15/14, Rating: 0
RE: I'm surprised
By Dug on 8/15/2014 8:46:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Aside from the play store all of those offerings are not tied to Android in any way whatsoever.


But no current manufacturer can release an Android product without them, except for one that I know of and that is Amazon.

quote:
They had that stipulation since day one, just as apple had theirs on their devices as far as restrictions go or the whole "bundling the browser" argument. They can't be tried for anti-competitive behavior since they did this before becoming a monopoly.

If they don't like it, they are more than welcome to try forking. Amazon seems to be doing just fine.


No they didn't have that stipulation sense day one. You obviously didn't read through the links I provided. There's also another 80,000 pages of documents that show Acer, Samsung, and Motorola trying to use a different gps solution, which Google shut down.
The stipulation to use only Google API's if you want to release the phone is anti-competitive.
You can't fork for the reasons I gave above, and Amazon isn't doing so well with their services because of the store stipulations Google is putting on developers.

quote:
Open source only matters to a few people. All they care is that the ecosystem works. You won't find any other open source solution that comes close to Android that manages to balance control vs. openness and popularity.


I agree, I was just showing that Google does control Android, develops it, and you can't just take Android and sell a phone without Google's clench on the whole ecosystem and approval. If you fork it, you are screwed because Google won't allow any of their services. It's all or nothing.


RE: I'm surprised
By sprockkets on 8/15/2014 10:56:39 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
But no current manufacturer can release an Android product without them, except for one that I know of and that is Amazon.


Nokia did as well.

Any manufacturer can choose what it wants to do, whether sell their own version of android or go full on google. Benefits to doing so is not having to reinvent the wheel with another app store and backend servers that Nokia did with the X series.

quote:
No they didn't have that stipulation sense day one. You obviously didn't read through the links I provided. There's also another 80,000 pages of documents that show Acer, Samsung, and Motorola trying to use a different gps solution, which Google shut down.

Your links provided are the same stories I read years ago. Nobody knew the agreements made because they were not made public until a court trial made them public.

Yes, they had two OEMs want to put in Skyhook's tech on them, but they didn't want them taking over Google's own tech that did the same thing. Of course, why should they have a free ride on Android's back? Since Google doesn't seem to charge for it, they have to get something back.

Surprisingly the trial hasn't happened yet. But in 2010 Android just took off. Those were the days of the original Galaxy S. They would have a hard time convicting them of anything anti competitive and are instead probably going to rely on patents.
quote:
The stipulation to use only Google API's if you want to release the phone is anti-competitive.
You can't fork for the reasons I gave above, and Amazon isn't doing so well with their services because of the store stipulations Google is putting on developers.


Well, Amazon chose that route since they have their little ecosystem of Prime Video and books.

Last time I checked both are in the business of making money while giving away hardware for cheap. Google isn't running servers to push notifications to its users as a charity - as an example they use data gathered from maps users to provide real time traffic data that no one else can match.

And guess what? Amazon doesn't release their video service to normal android users. How anti competitive of them. I guess Google should sue for that as well. /absurd

quote:
I agree, I was just showing that Google does control Android, develops it, and you can't just take Android and sell a phone without Google's clench on the whole ecosystem and approval. If you fork it, you are screwed because Google won't allow any of their services. It's all or nothing.


Yep. But if you are not in the business of making an ecosystem but rather just phone hardware, is it really that bad?


RE: I'm surprised
By KoolAidMan1 on 8/16/2014 12:27:37 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
You are wrong.


Reclaimer is always wrong. He's a waste of space.


RE: I'm surprised
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/16/2014 4:40:33 PM , Rating: 2
You are a bigger waste of space, by miles.


RE: I'm surprised
By KoolAidMan1 on 8/19/2014 10:43:17 PM , Rating: 2
More quick dry wit from the guy making 30k a year in a call center.

At least you're branching out from saying "ironic". Keep it coming, you'll get there someday!


RE: I'm surprised
By Da W on 8/18/2014 9:48:06 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
On IE, they stopped trying and it sucks again now, but you get the point.


I'm using IE all the time, am i missing something? A browser is a brwoser, you use it to go on the internet, which is what i do, and it works.


RE: I'm surprised
By lexluthermiester on 8/20/2014 1:28:15 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Leave it to Microsoft to take a phose OS that few seem to want and then pattern their entire Windows OS, essentially cramming it down our throats (in the usual "we are microsoft and we know better than you do what you want" fashion) and then wonder why it is not selling.


Right?


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 10:34:54 AM , Rating: 5
Its probably a combo. Some don't like the UI, some don't like the lack of apps. Some just don't want or trust Microsoft.

It's a shame really. WP is far better than its market share dictates, and I am surprised to see it shrinking.

Also, as an Android user and fan, I don't like it being at 85% market share. WAY too high, we need someone else to step up their game to keep pushing Google. As it is now, Google is starting to show signs of developing to solve problems for themselves rather than their customers. Integrating once great apps into lesser version inside of Google+ is an example. Someone needs to step up here, and MS was looking like the only viable contender... bummer.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: -1
RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 12:23:39 PM , Rating: 2
"Examples? Not the one you gave, because that was just silly. Everyone does that, it's called streamlining."

Havent we been over this? G-Talk, latitude, and other functionality has been dumped and integrated into Google+ with far lesser functionality and convenience. Maps is a shell of its former self, Local is basically gone. You mentioned before you never used those apps, so you really don't know how much worse they got. How about 4.4 hampering the ability to run apps of SD? 85% market share is into the area where a company starts to act like MS did int he 90's. YES, the signs are there.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: -1
RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 12:39:08 PM , Rating: 5
Seriously reclaimer, why is it that you can't take any open and honest criticism of a company or product you like? Any time anyone says anything negative about Samsung or Google you are all over them in full on attack mode. You are even all over me about it, and I am obviously not a Google or Samsung hater.

Honestly bro, sometimes you are as bad with the one sided "us vs. them, defend the company at all cost" mentality as any Apple fanboy here... It gets tiresome.


RE: I'm surprised
By Mitch101 on 8/15/2014 12:47:13 PM , Rating: 2
He is on a major rampage today like nothing Ive seen before.

Time to move on let him run DT.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: 0
RE: I'm surprised
By Spuke on 8/15/2014 2:05:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What's wrong Mitch, ran out of other people's stuff to steal today?
Oh sh!t! LMAO!


RE: I'm surprised
By Mitch101 on 8/15/2014 2:09:11 PM , Rating: 2
Wow nobody has every cut and paste a description from Amazon while providing the URL?

Tell us Reclaimer how is adding 175,000 more apps in about a year developers not embracing Windows? One developer do all that?


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: 0
RE: I'm surprised
By Mitch101 on 8/15/2014 3:57:26 PM , Rating: 2
The Amazon link is at the top of the thread and I told you I got there by seeing it was listed in the little section on amazon where they recommend similar products. You have used Amazon before right?

Amazon also has the AT&T Nokia Lumia 635 - No Contract GoPhone is $99.99 & FREE Shipping

So I guess referencing the vendor is not enough for you that I had to also include the link. Hardly transparent but that's what you do.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: 0
RE: I'm surprised
By Mitch101 on 8/15/2014 4:57:49 PM , Rating: 2
This is the most moronic item I think Ive ever bothered to deliberate.

Apparently you have never seen this option before on any site
Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought

Enjoy your whatever it is you think happened and continue to avoid the 300k Windows Phone apps question which you think is developers not being interested.


RE: I'm surprised
By Spuke on 8/15/2014 5:19:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No you got busted here pal. I hope you enjoy this conversation, because you're going to see it a lot in the future.
LMFAO!


RE: I'm surprised
By Spuke on 8/15/2014 5:25:50 PM , Rating: 2
RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/2014 1:08:16 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Time to move on let him run DT.


To quote a lovable genetically modified raccoon I've seen in the theater:

"That's the first thing you've said that wasn't batsh*t crazy!"


RE: I'm surprised
By Makaveli on 8/15/14, Rating: 0
RE: I'm surprised
By Mitch101 on 8/15/2014 5:00:40 PM , Rating: 2
Most of the time he is right so I guess everyone is wrong when he is rated 1.58 for comments?


RE: I'm surprised
By Spuke on 8/15/2014 5:27:56 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Most of the time he is right so I guess everyone is wrong when he is rated 1.58 for comments?
"You can't handle the truth!"


RE: I'm surprised
By Mitch101 on 8/15/2014 7:59:16 PM , Rating: 2
Apparently I cannot. I will go and rethink my life.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/16/2014 8:23:58 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah because the rating system is some totally unbiased and impartial "right/wrong" meter lol....

Don't try and browbeat my fans. I'm sure one day you'll have your own. Curious but I've never seen anyone say that kind of thing about you here, I wonder why?

1. You're boring (no style or flare)
2. You're bitter and passive-aggressive all the time, and no one likes that.

3. You steal, and honestly who likes a thief?

My main man up there had a pretty good idea. I actually should monetize myself, I'm pretty much a household name in some circles.

Just the other day I was playing Planetside2 and got a tell, "Are you the Reclaimer from DailyTech?" Yup that's me! He went on to tell me how much he enjoyed my posts and how he loves seeing me beat down all the "idiots". We're pretty good friends now, cool guy.

I meet people like that all the time. Outside of Daily Tech most people just love the Reclaimer.

Does that ever happen to you Mitch? Oh wait...no? Oh dear, I wonder why..


RE: I'm surprised
By Spuke on 8/18/2014 12:47:14 PM , Rating: 2
And the hits just keep coming! LMAO


RE: I'm surprised
By Makaveli on 8/16/2014 1:12:14 PM , Rating: 1
Your saying that like I give a shit what the ratings say.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/2014 1:00:53 PM , Rating: 1
Criticism is one thing. Taking a few incidences, which are clearly not anti-consumer, and claiming they are clues to a larger sinister plot is different.

Also maybe you should understand that while YOU might feel that way about those apps, not everyone does.

Believe it or not, there ARE people who think Google + is just fine.

I'm fine with you complaining about these issues. However you're combining them and blowing it just totally WAY out of proportion. To the point that, yeah, it sounds like a hater.


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 1:11:29 PM , Rating: 2
"Criticism is one thing. Taking a few incidences, which are clearly not anti-consumer, and claiming they are clues to a larger sinister plot is different"

Wow. Talk about a strawman. Where did I say anything like that? I said "there are signs" and I pointed to some real world, very valid examples of it.

"However you're combining them and blowing it just totally WAY out of proportion. To the point that, yeah, it sounds like a hater"

I said "there are signs", and you changed that to "a sinister plot" and then say I am blowing it way out of proportion? OK.

FWIW, I am NOT saying Google is doing that or is surely heading down that road. I am saying 85% market share is huge and that they have recently been doing some development that is designed to solve problems for themselves rahter than solve problems for consumers - thus "signs". If you dont see it, that is fine, I cant make you.

They could, and I suspect will do the right thing. At least I hope so.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: 0
RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 1:39:10 PM , Rating: 3
"How can shuffling a few of their apps around be a "sign" of anything?"

I come from a background where software upgrades add features and/or improve things not the opposite. When I see new versions come out and they remove features and make things less use-able than before, it irks me. Given your reaction to Windows 8, I would say it irks you too, right? Whether you want to see it or not, Google has done this a few times recently. Good software solves a customers problem, not the companies problem.

"I came here to kick Windows Phone while it was down, not to see you of all people go on some anti-Google speculative trip."

Again, I was drawing a correlation of Google's 85% marketshare and their beginning stages of doing what MS did. IF you take off the fanboy hat you will see it. If not, fine. You dont have to look.


RE: I'm surprised
By Mitch101 on 8/15/2014 2:13:15 PM , Rating: 2
I would like to welcome you to the Crazy the rest of us saw long ago in Reclaimer77. Enjoy


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 4:00:43 PM , Rating: 2
LOL... No two people will agree on everything. He and I have been here a long time and have been arguing and years. I know who he is and what he is about. I don't think he is crazy, just very enthusiastic about his beliefs. Also, he loves to argue/debate and he certainly does not like negative things being said about his favorite companies. It's all good to me.


RE: I'm surprised
By Spuke on 8/15/2014 5:29:48 PM , Rating: 2
You're a good guy Retro.


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 5:50:17 PM , Rating: 2
RE: I'm surprised
By Spuke on 8/15/2014 6:33:18 PM , Rating: 2
LOL! I'm going to Mitch that, hope you don't mind.


RE: I'm surprised
By ritualm on 8/15/2014 1:58:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Seriously I don't get this. How can shuffling a few of their apps around be a "sign" of anything? Not to mention it was THEIR apps!! They can do what they want with them!!

Google's nixing Voice by "integrating" some of its features - in effect, nerfing it - into Hangouts/G+.

That's not a "shuffling a few of their apps", that's an outright nerf. It's as if we, the customers, mean nothing to Mountain View.
quote:
Why are we even talking about this anyway? I came here to kick Windows Phone while it was down, not to see you of all people go on some anti-Google speculative trip.

With only 11% of the market, Apple screws over more people every day.

Are you seriously advocating Android having a 85%+ market share? Because what you're doing is say you want a monopoly. According to you, Microsoft having a monopoly in years past was a very bad thing. Yet it's not so bad when it's Google doing it.

Testerguy3, Android having 85% market share is not a welcome development.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/2014 2:06:50 PM , Rating: 1
Internal data showed that hardly nobody was using voice. Now you can make video, webcam calls, and text messaging all through a SINGLE app. How is this a bad thing?

quote:
Microsoft having a monopoly in years past was a very bad thing. Yet it's not so bad when it's Google doing it.


When the federal Government prosecutes Google in a major anti-trust case, hey, THEN you can say they are the same.

"Nerfing" their own apps is a far cry from the kind of stuff Microsoft got busted for.

Besides it's an entirely different market and situation. I know what you're trying to do, the usual troll angle, but these are not the same or even all that analogous.

If the worst case you can make so far is the "nerfing" of a few of their own apps, well you have a LONG way to go.


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 2:11:52 PM , Rating: 2
Dood, under no circumstances is any company having an 85% marketshare good, even if it's what you use and love... Even as a Google fan and happy Android user, I don't want Android to have 85% of the market. All that does is take the pressure off of Google to innovate and release at a faster pace.


RE: I'm surprised
By ritualm on 8/15/2014 2:21:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Dood, under no circumstances is any company having an 85% marketshare good, even if it's what you use and love... Even as a Google fan and happy Android user, I don't want Android to have 85% of the market. All that does is take the pressure off of Google to innovate and release at a faster pace.

This, so much this.

If Reclaimer77 is perfectly fine about Android having a near-monopoly, why is he not fine with Comcast buying TimeWarner Cable and having monopolies in many markets? The contradiction and hypocrisy is damning.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: -1
RE: I'm surprised
By ritualm on 8/15/2014 4:01:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I love how you think Android is even comparable to the Time Warner/Comcast thing.

Android having 85% market share means it's getting close to a monopoly, and in the big picture, that comparison to the fallout created by the eventual Comcast/TWC merger in many markets is HIGHLY RELEVANT.

Don't pretend Android being a monopoly is impossible within our lifetimes.

Be careful what you wish for.
quote:
There's two words you BADLY need to look up. The first is "monopoly", because you're slinging it around where it doesn't apply. The second is "hypocrisy".

You could care less if Windows Phone dies tomorrow. In other words, you want LESS competition because all those little bits are taking away that "my preciousss" 85% market share.

You even said in another post that Android is the Windows of the mobile world. Put very simply, you want to see nothing less than a monopoly held solely by Google.
quote:
I want Windows Phone to succeed, or fail, because of how good or bad of a product it is.

Actually, you want Windows Phone to fail simply because it's Microsoft. How else? You made two other posts in this very article, clearly showing others what you want to see happen:
quote:
I think if Windows Phone disappeared tomorrow, few people would notice and even less would care.

quote:
It's great because essentially this confirms everything I've ever said about Windows Phone. All of my predictions have come true, all of my criticisms are now validated. People like Mitch and Atechfan can just suck it :P

You want WP to succeed? Yeah right. Nice try, thanks for playing, but you're WAY OFF.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: -1
RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/2014 2:23:56 PM , Rating: 1
Android is essentially the Windows of the mobile world.

It was destined to hit huge marketshare, because it was offered to the most people.

I really have no problem with it having huge marketshare. Because it's NOT controlled by a single entity. It's not controlled by ANYONE.

And oh yeah, it's completely free and open source.

quote:
All that does is take the pressure off of Google to innovate and release at a faster pace.


While Google's Android might have 85% of the market, they do NOT have 85% of all mobile OS profits. Trust me, they're still highly motivated to deliver a good product and timely updates.

And if they aren't? Well you're always the FIRST person to point out custom ROM's. Google isn't just competing with iOS and Windows Phone, they're also in competition with people modding Android itself.


RE: I'm surprised
By ritualm on 8/15/2014 2:29:19 PM , Rating: 2
So you're perfectly okay with Android having a monopoly in the mobile world.

Why not go all the way? Throw out all regional and cultural differences! A single government to represent everyone, one currency for all transactions all over the world! What could possibly go wrong!?

I cannot believe you're advocating monopolies being good for all of us. You not only jumped the shark, bro, but also turning out to be more insane than tonyswash.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/2014 2:38:22 PM , Rating: 1
How can you honestly say Android has a "monopoly" when Apple is so strong a player and profitable??

Please, Google is FAR from having monopoly status.

quote:
I cannot believe you're advocating monopolies being good for all of us.


Yeah ummm, I'm NOT doing that. Just come off it.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/2014 2:57:15 PM , Rating: 2
I seriously do not understand what is happening here.

Retro TWO DAYS ago, on the 13'th, you said this:

"Android will fade into history when and only when something better, and totally open to any OEM comes along that knocks it off its perch - alone at the top for now."

I'll just leave you with that. Not sure how you pulled a complete 180 in just two days.


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 3:17:04 PM , Rating: 2
I have no idea what you mean. Yes I said that, it's pretty solid at the top. Not sure how anything I said here is a 180, or even a 90 or a 45 for that matter. I would rather see more players and more options to avoid anyone, even Google being alone at the top. Competition is always good.


RE: I'm surprised
By nikon133 on 8/16/2014 5:14:32 AM , Rating: 2
Forbidding release of native code YouTube app on Windows Phone, while refusing to release one themselves, I'm finding that a bit anticompetitive.


RE: I'm surprised
By kamiller422 on 8/15/2014 3:44:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
LOL what? The most used navigation app on the planet, the GOLD standard for the entire industry, is a "shell" of it's former self???


I guess the day had to come when I would disagree with Reclaimer. I agree with 99.9% of his posts, but Google Maps is gimped compared to what was. Sure, somethings have improved, like showing lane navigation, but it falls short in many other ways. Sharing a location with a friend? Saving a portion of map offline is more cumbersome. Searching for destinations along a route is non-existent. Waze excels as the driver's companion.


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 3:46:02 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly... It's so aggravating when you upgrade and app and lost functionality.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/2014 3:58:24 PM , Rating: 2
So it's a sign of Google's impending monopolistic behavior when Google Maps doesn't have EVERY feature you want in it?

I'm not saying it's perfect. But retro specifically cited it as an example in his post to show the "signs" of Google's anti-consumer tendencies.

I just think that's absurd.


RE: I'm surprised
By kamiller422 on 8/15/2014 9:48:00 PM , Rating: 2
Not saying it's anti-consumer. I am saying Maps is missing features the previous version had. If anything, that's opportunity for a competitor to step in, which is good for the consumer.

Maps and Google Voice are the most disappointing Google products for me lately because they have so much potential, and Google is slow walking them. In the case of Google Voice, sitting still. Frustrating.


RE: I'm surprised
By sprockkets on 8/15/2014 3:25:31 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Havent we been over this? G-Talk, latitude, and other functionality has been dumped and integrated into Google+ with far lesser functionality and convenience. Maps is a shell of its former self, Local is basically gone. You mentioned before you never used those apps, so you really don't know how much worse they got. How about 4.4 hampering the ability to run apps of SD?


G talk is still around, and still works.

Latitude was redundant and moved into other products. Nothing as far as being open or not changed.

Maps? Not sure what you are complaining about, its much better now than before.

SD card access? Hello new android meme to hate on. Look up SAF, storage access framework, which allows all apps to still have read and write access via the documents app to prevent apps from having complete control of your files.

Oh and WP isn't any better than Android - they forbid all apps from accessing music or pictures - you have to let the system do it for you.


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 3:38:09 PM , Rating: 2
"G talk is still around, and still works."

Yeah, you can get the PC client from oldversion.com not from Google. The current offering from Google is integrated with hangouts and not even 1/2 as functional. Cant even do decent group chats.

"Latitude was redundant and moved into other products."

Yes, that is the issue. What used to take 2 clicks in lat, now takes 8 in G+.

"Maps? Not sure what you are complaining about, its much better now than before."

It does look better. Not easier to use, not easier to find anything and the loss of "Local" makes finding nearby restaurants or gas, or ATM (or whatever) much harder. I know it's still there, but no-where near as easy at o use as it used to be. Surely this isnt the first you have heard of this.

"SD card access?"

Yes, KitKat made it near impossible to install apps directly to SD, so users with 16gb or less and SD are no longer able to save space by installing games atc direct to SD. Look that up.

"Oh and WP isn't any better than Android"

I didn't say it was. Not by any means. I did say I think its pretty good and its better than its 2.5% marketshare.

Keep in mind, I am not some anti android hater. I think Android is by far the best mobile OS today. I use it and love it... I would just like more competition is all.


RE: I'm surprised
By sprockkets on 8/15/2014 3:57:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yeah, you can get the PC client from oldversion.com not from Google. The current offering from Google is integrated with hangouts and not even 1/2 as functional. Cant even do decent group chats.


I guess, but since it works so well in the browser, does it matter? I don't notice any difference anyhow.

quote:
Yes, that is the issue. What used to take 2 clicks in lat, now takes 8 in G+


OK, but that means nothing about open vs closed.

quote:
It does look better. Not easier to use, not easier to find anything and the loss of "Local" makes finding nearby restaurants or gas, or ATM (or whatever) much harder. I know it's still there, but no-where near as easy at o use as it used to be. Surely this isnt the first you have heard of this.


Nope, this is the first. Probably because you can hit search, and it pops down all the local stuff from before?

And here I thought it was going to be the whole "No separate GPS nav app."

quote:
Yes, KitKat made it near impossible to install apps directly to SD, so users with 16gb or less and SD are no longer able to save space by installing games atc direct to SD. Look that up.


It's like been that way since 3.0. That has nothing to do with 4.4/kitkat. The functionality to stick apps data to the sd card is still there.

WP isn't much better either. Sure you can stick apps now on the SD card, if allowed. Nokia's here maps won't let you set map data to be on the sd card whatsoever. There was a workaround for it, but none so far for 8.1.

quote:
I didn't say it was. Not by any means. I did say I think its pretty good and its better than its 2.5% marketshare.


Fair enough. Though it's for all the others who think WP is any better.


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 4:11:51 PM , Rating: 2
"I guess, but since it works so well in the browser, does it matter? I don't notice any difference anyhow. "

Go start up a group chat and LMK.

"OK, but that means nothing about open vs closed."

That was never my point. My point was it's less useful and more labor intensive than it used to be. A major downgrade.

As far as maps, OMG, I think its awful to try and find anything now. I don't even know what to say.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: 0
RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 4:25:51 PM , Rating: 3
You dont actually use these things do you?

When you are driving and there is noise, you cant always talk to Gnow. That and I honestly don't like the results when I do. I preferred one click to pull up the sub menu where I could immediately do anything I need to in an easy so see and easy to use format, because I am driving, or at a light or on the side of the road and in a hurry.

OK man, I am done. You seriously can't hear one negative thing said about Google or Android, not even coming from someone like me that alot of people here call an Android zealot. The slightest comment that doesn't point it in a bright light draw an immediate deluge of strawman arguments from you. Like I said, it's getting tiresome.


RE: I'm surprised
By Spuke on 8/15/2014 5:38:34 PM , Rating: 1
I can easily talk to GNow with the top down in my convertible on the freeway. Works like a champ.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/16/2014 8:10:48 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah seriously, I don't even know how to respond to his post... It's like we're not even talking about the same app.


RE: I'm surprised
By Spuke on 8/18/2014 12:52:31 PM , Rating: 2
Some of you are such little girls here. What's up with the rate down? I can EASILY talk to GNow in my car with the top down. It's a fact. GET OVER IT!


RE: I'm surprised
By sprockkets on 8/15/2014 4:18:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Go start up a group chat and LMK.


Idk, I just open hangouts on my phone, enter a name and it says, "anyone else?" and simply add another one???


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 4:26:31 PM , Rating: 2
On PC, the function is goneseville.


RE: I'm surprised
By sprockkets on 8/15/2014 4:30:46 PM , Rating: 2
I just opened a chat, hit the person with the + sign and added another one.

You don't have that?


RE: I'm surprised
By Spuke on 8/15/2014 5:39:39 PM , Rating: 2
Retro, maybe your setup is bonked or something. I just the did the same thing sprockkets did.


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 5:47:17 PM , Rating: 2
OK, cool. It looks like they fixed it. When they first integrated it and dumped the client, it was not there. Still, the browser plugin isnt as good as the old client/app.

Regardless of that one example, it doesn't change my point. Functionality on several things has decreased with newer versions and G+ integration.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/2014 4:02:46 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The current offering from Google is integrated with hangouts and not even 1/2 as functional. Cant even do decent group chats.


Then just use a different app! My god, what is the problem here dude?

quote:
Yes, KitKat made it near impossible to install apps directly to SD


Yeah you still don't get it. Read his post again, AND the link I gave you. Android has enough of a (false) reputation as a malware magnet as it is.

quote:
Keep in mind, I am not some anti android hater.


Well before today I didn't think you were. But seeing as how you're regurgitating the exact same talking points the iTards here use against Android...I dunno man.


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 4:06:12 PM , Rating: 2
Dood, I like you, you are cool, but you are a hopeless fanboy.

Even someone like me, that uses and LOVES Android and defends it here right along with you on a regular basis can admit it's flaws and point out things that have backslid a bit. Those are valid talking point whether you want to hear them or not.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/2014 4:17:36 PM , Rating: 2
Whoa whoa whoa, full stop.

This discussion is not about flaws. I recognize Android has flaws.

This is about you saying those flaws were "signs" that Google was taking a more anti-consumer position and abusing their market position.

Are you changing that now?


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 4:32:14 PM , Rating: 3
Oy /facepalm.

Let me rephrase it one last time and I am done.

Anything negative that is said and Google, Android, Samsung or any Samsung product is met with an immediate and aggressive deluge of strawman arguments and often insults from you. Even if coming from someone like me, that uses and LOVES Android and defends it here right along with you on a regular basis.

Have you noticed how many different people here have stated something along the lines of "I know reclaimer will explode all over me for saying this but... I don't like this one thing [insert the comment] about [Google or Samsung].

Dayam!


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/2014 4:42:04 PM , Rating: 2
Hey don't you blame me. Thanks to YOU, not me, we're talking about Android and Google when we should be here talking about how much Microsoft and Windows Phone sucks!!

:P


RE: I'm surprised
By retrospooty on 8/15/2014 6:40:41 PM , Rating: 2
I'd say you have that pretty well covered. LOL.


RE: I'm surprised
By ritualm on 8/15/2014 6:53:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Anything negative that is said and Google, Android, Samsung or any Samsung product is met with an immediate and aggressive deluge of strawman arguments and often insults from you. Even if coming from someone like me, that uses and LOVES Android and defends it here right along with you on a regular basis.

Have you noticed how many different people here have stated something along the lines of "I know reclaimer will explode all over me for saying this but... I don't like this one thing [insert the comment] about [Google or Samsung].

Not just that.

The article can be all about Windows Phone, with nobody explicitly mentioning or even talking about Google / Android / Samsung at the slightest... and there comes Reclaimer77 with his usual "Windows Phone sucks, Android rules!" diatribe. He doesn't say it out loud, but if you read between the lines, that's the message you get out of it. When others point out how wrong he is, he goes on a condescending defensive over his "babies".

I posted in the article about Amazon fire-selling AT&T-locked Nokia 520s for $40 apiece, after he asserted why we should ignore Windows Phone:
quote:
Oh looky here, it's Reclaimer77 bashing Windows Phone (again!) and subliminally cheering Google/Android in the same time!

You're just too predictable, and your schtick is getting old.

Just like how the other guy said, your day job is all about trolling for Google/Samsung. There is no other explanation.

His response:
quote:
Believe me, if I had subliminal powers you would have killed yourself long ago.

Just.
Wow.

Not even tonyswash droops down to this level of insanity.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/16/2014 8:14:37 AM , Rating: 2
Ritualm from day 1 you've shown me zero respect here. You purposefully troll every post I make, and you constantly create Straw Man arguments and blow everything out of proportion.

quote:
He doesn't say it out loud, but if you read between the lines, that's the message you get out of it.


Translation: If I put words in Reclaimer's mouth, I can then troll him for things he NEVER actually said.

You're obnoxious in every way. Don't act shocked that I said that, come on. People die every day, why can't you be one of them?


RE: I'm surprised
By ritualm on 8/16/2014 4:53:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
from day 1 you've shown me zero respect here

And you rightfully deserve ZERO respect. After all, you treat every criticism against Google / Android / Samsung as a personal attack, and go full on attack mode with hundreds of strawman arguments just to win.

And when you're not winning? Change the subject, put your words in other people's mouths, backtrack and claim you never said thisandthat.

You want me to take your points seriously? Grow some balls and thicker skin. I'm using iOS, Android and WP, how dare you even brand me a fanboy? Meanwhile, you've never used WP, and you keep harping how it sucks.
quote:
You purposefully troll every post I make

Not troll on purpose. You purposefully troll every Windows Phone article and claim how we should all be using your favorite Google/Android/Samsung crap instead of whatever that comes out of Microsoft/Nokia. I call you out for these, and you try to shout me down by claiming I'm a WP fanboy and some other grade-school nonsense.

So allow me to use your quote, word for word, verbatim against you: you accuse me of the following...
quote:
you constantly create Straw Man arguments and blow everything out of proportion

... yet that is precisely what you do ALL THE TIME. Even against retrospooty. Just because he disagreed with your claims.

Get a hint, kiddo.
quote:
If I put words in Reclaimer's mouth, I can then troll him for things he NEVER actually said.

Why do I need to do that? Knowing your posting history and your allegiances - and thus realizing your unwritten arguments - why should I not immediately refute you?

Do the math, kiddo.
quote:
People die every day, why can't you be one of them?

You're starting to sound like testerguy, issuing death threats against others just because they don't agree with you.

Get banned.


RE: I'm surprised
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/16/2014 6:05:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
, issuing death threats against others just because they don't agree with you.
He is? No, he isn't.


RE: I'm surprised
By ritualm on 8/16/2014 6:22:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
He is? No, he isn't.

Except he is, and you have your blinders on because you're his sidekick.

All you really need to send your buddy Reclaimer77 into a fit of rage is by legitimately criticizing Google/Android/Samsung.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=34644...

Cheesew1z69, you don't know when to cut your losses and shut up, either. Back off, for this is between me and your buddy Reclaimer77 (who brought everything up all by himself, I had nothing to do with it).


RE: I'm surprised
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/16/2014 6:36:59 PM , Rating: 1
Except, he isn't. Back off? This is a public site, and you apparently don't have a clue what a death threat is. And cut my losses and shut up? Who exactly are you again? Oh right, a nobody. What in the fuck are you rambling on about? You're being an idiot.


RE: I'm surprised
By ritualm on 8/16/2014 6:51:25 PM , Rating: 2
You dragged yourself into this mess in defense of your buddy, personal insults and strawman arguments in tow, and you expect me to be cordial with you?

You don't have a leg to stand on here.

So allow me to use your quote, word for word, verbatim against you:
quote:
And cut my losses and shut up? Who exactly are you again? Oh right, a nobody... You're being an idiot.


RE: I'm surprised
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/16/2014 7:09:04 PM , Rating: 2
Not defending anyone but OK....I am merely stating the fact that he isn't giving death threats.

A leg to stand on? Not trying to stand on anything but hey, keep on thinking you are making some point.

And as for the "quote word for word", nothing more than "I know your are but what am i", it's childish.

But hey keep on, further making yourself look like the idiot you are.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/17/2014 9:10:10 AM , Rating: 2
lol Jesus you do carry on. And I thought I had latent daddy issues. Do you need a spanking or a hug, son?

And nobody in their right mind read that and thought "death threats". Please continue to be mentally unhinged for my benefit, I love it LMAO.


RE: I'm surprised
By Spuke on 8/18/2014 12:57:35 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't read death threats at all. Not sure where that's coming from.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/18/2014 1:00:33 PM , Rating: 2
Oh no you didn't, now he's going to say you're just coming to save your "buddy" Reclaimer

LMAO this kid is comedy gold.


RE: I'm surprised
By kmmatney on 8/15/2014 1:13:30 PM , Rating: 2
That's pretty much me.... About a 10 months ago, I gave the Nokia 1020 a good look at the AT&T store, but I just didn't like the look of the UI, worried about lack of Apps, and the OS wasn't quite polished yet. After using MS products since the DOS days, I can't say I trust them either. And I wanted an SD slot. In retrospect, I kind of wished I had bought Lumina instead, as I'm not thrilled with Android. I'll probably just go back to Apple. I actually liked Android at first, but it seems to be getter worse with time.


RE: I'm surprised
By lexluthermiester on 8/29/2014 10:49:24 AM , Rating: 2
[fixed]
quote:
Most just don't want to trust Microsoft.


Hammer hits nail on head with such force as to be mistaken for a thunder-clap!!

quote:
It's a shame really. WP is far better than its market share dictates, and I am surprised to see it shrinking.


No it isn't better. It is getting the disdain it deserves. It's ugly to look at, lacking any REAL user configurable security measures and the ones that do exist are pathetic. Then there is the fact that there are very customizations the user can set to make the interface more personalized and friendly to the liking of THAT person. That list could easily go on...


RE: I'm surprised
By Mitch101 on 8/15/2014 10:51:04 AM , Rating: 1
Quarter to Quarter is subjective and a lot revolves around releases.

Nokia transition to Microsoft they didn't release any new devices. 8.1 is just being released and new devices are lined up going into the end of the year and the lost cost devices are finally starting to hit especially on the pay as you go plans where they didn't exist before. No miracles but it will be back to growth soon. Microsoft has the money Nokia didn't have to promote it. 8.2 has some major surprises. I like the Knock Knock where you can have a special code you can give to your inner circle on texts that bypasses the silent mode. It will also finally have a file system. Not that its needed but who knows sure someone is complaining they need it. There is also a major business push because of all the beefed up security. The HTC is also just coming to play. Again no miracles and Microsoft would be in no rush they make money from Android too so as long as Apple doesn't comeback Microsoft wins.

iPhone similar. The iPhone 6 will sell very well many people been wanting a larger screen. I expect they will get a big boost. There is always a slow sale of iPhones just before a new release.

Android should hope for some market share loss otherwise the EU will be knocking soon. You know they live for this kind of stuff.


RE: I'm surprised
By anothermax2 on 8/18/2014 9:28:22 AM , Rating: 2
The article summarizes year over year changes.

Quarter to Quarter Blackberry went up, Microsoft went down. Something conveniently overlooked in the summary...


RE: I'm surprised
By Solandri on 8/15/2014 11:54:55 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I've never used a Windows phone, so I'm assuming people don't like the tiles idea.

I have an Android phone but got to play with a friend's Win phone. The tiles are actually a really good idea for a phone. It maximizes the use of space on a small screen. I look at the grid of icons on Android/iOS now and see a lot of wasted space between all the icons. The fact that the tiles can be animated also makes them sort of a combo icon/widget as well. The only downside is the lack of a consistent size means it can be hard to search through the tiles for an app (you can't scan left-right top-bottom like you're reading). But that's really only a problem if you're borrowing a friend's phone, which almost never happens. If you're using your own phone, you should know approx where you put all your app tiles.

It's good enough that if this race were started over (with Android, iOS, BB, and Win Phone starting with zero customers), I would probably go with the tile interface. I think their problem is partly too little too late, and blowback from trying to force tiles onto everyone using desktops and laptops.


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/14, Rating: 0
RE: I'm surprised
By ritualm on 8/15/2014 2:04:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I wouldn't call a desktop background "wasted space". It's visually appealing, customized, and unlike Metro doesn't cause horrible eye pains and headaches.

Have you actually used Windows Phone as a daily driver, instead of merely playing with one in a store?

I don't like Metro on a PC environment as much, but it's very useful on a phone.


RE: I'm surprised
By themaster08 on 8/15/2014 3:14:31 PM , Rating: 2
Of course he hasn't, he's said as much previously.

But hey, why let facts and informed opinions get in the way of an emotionally driven debate?


RE: I'm surprised
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/2014 3:40:08 PM , Rating: 2
So I have a buy a Windows Phone before I can judge it?

That's ridiculous!!

I trashed the iPhone for years without ever owning one. Guess what? Now I use one everyday. And you know what I learned? I learned I wasn't nearly critical ENOUGH before!


RE: I'm surprised
By Sonicmerlin on 8/15/2014 8:42:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:

It maximizes the use of space on a small screen. I look at the grid of icons on Android/iOS now and see a lot of wasted space between all the icons


It's not "wasted space". Windows phone just takes the area around a circular icon and colors it in. It can create a sense of clutter.

quote:
But that's really only a problem if you're borrowing a friend's phone, which almost never happens. If you're using your own phone, you should know approx where you put all your app tiles.

You shouldn't have to know anything. That's just annoying.


RE: I'm surprised
By wordsworm on 8/15/2014 4:49:34 PM , Rating: 2
The thing that sold me on an Android last time was Google Earth/Maps. I still haven't found a good Android office app, though. So any tablet I get will remain MS. Once Wintel gets its sh*t together, then they'll be worth picking over Android. But I couldn't hold my breath any longer. Who am I? Houdini?

C'mon Wintel for (*&# sakes!


RE: I'm surprised
By wordsworm on 8/15/2014 4:56:17 PM , Rating: 2
I guess they're out with a whisper. I found the ASUS Zenphone 6.
That thing looks sweet... where's the fanfare for a real Intel Windows phone? Microsoft is pushing the wrong phone OS.


RE: I'm surprised
By blaznazn22 on 8/15/2014 5:05:11 PM , Rating: 2
meh, even if I don't like microsoft that much, they're a much better company than apple. Apple will pay their employees peanuts while keeping hundreds of billions of dollars in offshore accounts. Aside from that, they don't even want to pay taxes on that income. Hopefully their shtty phone/tablet can crash in the market and they can go back to being irrelevant like they were in the 90's.


RE: I'm surprised
By cyberserf on 8/16/2014 3:22:25 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft just does not get it. Their new direction with Metro on Desktop and mobile are complete fail.
I tried on mobile and it sucks. You are basically stuck with a vertical toolbar. with IOS and Android you basically have complete open desktop where you can move icons at will and with multiple desktops as well by flicking left and right.


RE: I'm surprised
By tonyswash on 8/16/2014 8:33:11 AM , Rating: 1
If one is trying to understand the appeal of different mobile devices then I think the narrow focus on just the hardware or just the capabilities and features of the operating system is a mistake. I suspect that most consumers will be interested in how a phone feels in the hand, and some will be interested in how good the camera is or how big the screen is. Most will interested in brand reputation (who isn’t when making a consumer purchase?). Most will be thinking about price and quality and what’s the best they can afford. And that’s probably it in terms of the actual device characteristics that affect purchase choice.

Most people are probably not interested in tech specs like CPUs (unless the phone feels slow) or screen resolution (unless the screen looks fuzzy or the colours are off), how much memory it does or does not have or whether it has a removable battery or SD slot. Neither do they have a great deal of interest in comparing different operating system and how they each work. Those things matter to some but not to most.

The purchase decisions of most consumers are probably affected by the following non-device factors and questions.

Will it be easy to switch my contacts and media/photo library from my old device to my new device? Is my investment in my library of media and apps compatible with the new device or do I have to start all over again?

Where can I buy the device and how helpful are the retail staff and what devices do they recommend. The issues of retail channels is absolutely critical to the dynamics of the device markets, it’s why the Apple retail chain is so very important for iOS, it’s why and where Samsung poured enormous resources to get to the front of the in-store suggestion queue, and it’s why the Chinese (and to some extent the Indian) market is markedly different to the rest of the world. Carrier and retail indifference is also an important reason why Windows Phone has struggled.

What are the comparative brand reputations and recognition of the device makers? Have I heard of the phone, or the company that makes it and what have I heard? It’s why Apple has invested many billions in all the tiny but essential components of becoming a premium brand, it’s what Samsung has tried to do with it’s massive advertising and promotion spend, and partially achieved. The decision to brand Windows Phone with the Windows name did not help because most people had experienced Windows PCs as being tricky and somewhat unreliable.

How good and how easy is the customer support and service support systems for each brand of phone, who do I talk to if something goes wrong or I need help? This is where the Apple retail chain, it’s customer support system and the iron grip it has on blocking carrier fiddling with their devices is hugely important. The Apple retail system, where it is common for people who have damaged their devices to just be offered new ones, where the staff are actually trained not to try to sell you stuff, where you can drop in for any one of a continuous stream of high quality free seminars, training sessions and lectures on how to use your device, where you can wander about trying stuff for hours and nobody ever comes up and offers to help you, is so very, very important in relation to what device you might buy next and which one you recommend to your friends. It’s also where there is a bit of a structural weakness for Android devices in that the device itself is an assembly of parts (OS, services, hardware) made by different companies and sold by yet other companies. Who to talk to if something goes wrong, where in the product stack the problem might lay, what sort of response you might get when seeking help or advice, are all much more varied and sometimes quite poor (and of course sometimes quite good), in the Android world. Again Windows phone lacks this level of obvious support.

Technology is collapsing into being a technically invisible sub stratum of everyday life, everyday objects and of consumer brands. If one wants to understand how the device markets will evolve look less to the history of the PC market and more to history of the major consumer markets.


RE: I'm surprised
By althaz on 8/17/2014 10:43:19 PM , Rating: 2
There's, IMO, a couple of things standing in the way:
Microsoft's approach to the basic design of Windows Phone is definitely superior to the other two major platforms. However, you kinda need to own a Windows Phone for a month or so before you get it just the way you want it. That means if you try it for a few minutes in a store, it's not that appealing (because it's quite different).
There's also the fact that lots of folks are tied into their platforms because of large amounts of app purchases. And although the app selection is now pretty great on Windows Phone (including best-in class apps for a bunch of popular things like IMDB & Wikipedia)...the gaming situation is relatively dire.

If you game a lot on your phone (I personally play two games - Air Soccer Fever and Chess), I wouldn't recommend a Windows Phone (unless like my wife all you play is angry birds, then you're set). Android might be lagging noticeably here too, compared to iPhone, but it's well ahead of Windows Phone.

The other thing is that it hasn't been well marketed outside of the US - I've never heard an ad on the radio, nor seen one on the TV in Australia. That said, the Lumia 920 and 1020 are two of the most common phones I see around the place, so there are obviously some people buying them (and I'm one, happy Lumia 930 owner here).

Microsoft had been lacking features (though not since the last update), now that they aren't, they need to get hardware coming out more quickly and need to get their product launches sorted out. I actually tried going back to Android because the Lumia 930 took so long to come out here (couldn't do it, Android feels so old and clunky by comparison).


not much in the way of sales but...
By pesos on 8/15/2014 10:51:13 AM , Rating: 4
Microsoft finally made their licensing more attractive and 14 more partners signed up to make windows phones this quarter. If they can hold out, things might improve. A 3-player market is much better for all of us than just 2, and blackberry doesn't seem like they are viable.




RE: not much in the way of sales but...
By Nutzo on 8/15/2014 11:08:19 AM , Rating: 2
Put a fork in that blackberry, they're done.


RE: not much in the way of sales but...
By Mitch101 on 8/15/2014 11:30:24 AM , Rating: 2
The fork has been there a while. Time to throw it in the trash. I know several large companies that are finally powering down their BES servers before end of year. Contracts are reaching the end. The end users could not be happier because the company devices will be something else. Varies from each company but they all hate their BB's very rare to find someone who likes it anymore.


RE: not much in the way of sales but...
By Reclaimer77 on 8/15/2014 12:20:54 PM , Rating: 2
LMAO how can you say this about Blackberry while championing Windows Phone?

They're both in the same boat!!

If Windows Phone wasn't backed by a financial behemoth all this time, I doubt it would even be on the market.


RE: not much in the way of sales but...
By Mitch101 on 8/15/2014 2:15:19 PM , Rating: 2
Really how does RIM make money from Android?


RE: not much in the way of sales but...
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/15/2014 3:21:42 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Really how does RIM make money from Android?


Where in his post does he say this? Do you just like making shit up?


By Mitch101 on 8/15/2014 5:12:23 PM , Rating: 2
Its well know that Microsoft makes dollars when an Android device sells its called license royalties.

Rim does not make money from Android sales.

Can I get a crayon option to help some of these kids or maybe a sock puppet feature will help?


By Makaveli on 8/16/2014 1:36:55 PM , Rating: 2
Most of this is US based.

In canada most companies still use blackberries mine included.

We also don't allow andriod phones in our environment only Iphones on Mobile iron, Older berries on Bes 5 and Newer Berries on Bes 10. For a lawfirm security is a high priority and blackberry is still the leader in this field regardless of all the HATE from the US market.

In our environment IT decides what devices are allow in not end users. If we left it up to them they would all be getting Ipads because they watch too many commercials. We allowed one lawyer to do it because he believed the hype. He went back to a laptop in two days after he realized the ipad is just a consumption device and he couldn't actually do any real work on it.

For Blackberry once you get to the bottom the only place left to go is up.


Parallels to the PC market.
By Flunk on 8/15/2014 10:27:29 AM , Rating: 2
It's interesting to see how this parallels the PC OS market. It looks like it will settle down to a duopoly with Apple the minority stakeholder with high profit margins.

Android itself actually resembles Windows more than Windows Phone does. Can anyone can write programs without any sort of interaction with the OS developer? Yes. Can many different OEMs build hardware? Yes. Can those OEMs customize it any way they like? Yes. Is it the dominant software platform? Not yet, but it could be.

The biggest difference is that Windows is pretty stagnant at this point and Android keeps getting better. If Microsoft doesn't watch it we may end up running it on everything. Look at Chrome OS, which is essentially Android locked down only to run the Chrome web browser.




RE: Parallels to the PC market.
By cyberserf on 8/16/2014 3:25:19 AM , Rating: 2
They need to go back to allowing customization again as well as the open desktop look. Metro will never work.


Long ago, Apple was on the virge of extinction too
By ZippZ on 8/15/2014 10:35:41 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe Blackberry can make a turn around and dominate the market again. LOL




By Brandon Hill (blog) on 8/15/2014 10:54:23 PM , Rating: 2
BlackBerry doesn't have a "Steve Jobs" :-)


By Integral9 on 8/20/2014 8:49:22 AM , Rating: 2
In just little over a month, Microsoft has increased their growth potential from 96% to 97.5%. Way to go Microsoft!

http://www.dailytech.com/With+Just+4+Share+of+Glob...




By retrospooty on 8/20/2014 1:36:41 PM , Rating: 2
LOL... "The cup is 97% available"


Excuses
By kamiller422 on 8/15/2014 3:37:11 PM , Rating: 2
"There have been relatively few new Windows Phone releases during 2014, so consumers haven’t had much to get excited about. It also doesn’t help that wireless carriers aren’t too keen on promoting the platform,"

There is little to get excited about because there is little to be excited about with Windows Phone. Blaming the carriers? Really? If Microsoft has a compelling product and consumers want it, it will sell. Reality is otherwise for Microsoft.




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