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Reviews are glowing say changes are small but cumulatively significant

Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) gave guided tours of its upcoming operating system releaseWindows 8.1.  Free to Windows 8 customers, the upgrade will be available late this year and is being aired as a Release Preview at the BUILD Conference, which runs June 26-28.

I. Our Old Friend, the Start Button

Perhaps the most immediate change in previews by The Verge and Engadget is the unification of the Metro-styled (aka Microsoft's "Modern UI") Start Screen and the traditional desktop.  Both screens can now share the same background color or photo.  And both screens get a shiny new Start Button.

The new Start Button works much like the Start Button of old.  Contrary to rumors, when in Desktop mode may not drop you back onto the Start Screen.  

Based on the descriptions it is somewhat unclear whether the button will dump you in the Modern UI Start Screen or simply pop-up Live Tile styled menu -- some of the images would suggest the latter is the case (otherwise what would identical the button do in the Modern UI Start Screen?).

The Start Button on the desktop may be kind of like Windows 7's, albeit with a Metro makeover which still may leave critics a bit irked (but much less so).

Jensen Harris, director of the Windows User Experience Team at Microsoft explains in an interview with The Verge, "One of the things we realized right after we shipped Windows 8, was that the start tip was the only place in our entire ecosystem in which we had something that takes you back to the Start Screen that didn't look like a Windows logo."

Start Menu
The new Start Menu and multi-tasking snapping in the Modern UI [Image Source: Microsoft]

"We knew we needed to change that [start tip] to the Windows logo.  Once we had that there and we figured out that was the change we needed to make it was pretty straight forward to keep that same button in the same place in the task bar…it lends back a little bit of familiarity. It makes the whole PC work the same way."

II. Many Little Changes Make for Major UI Overhaul

The lock screen also gets a major overhaul that brings it more in line with other mobile device operating systems.  The camera UI is accessible from the lock screen.  You can accept Skype calls from the lock screen.  And the screen supports slide shows -- including seasonal shows based on the month of the picture -- using photos taken either from local directories or from Sky Drive, Microsoft's cloud storage service.

The Live Tiles are also livelier.  There are two new sizes --small tiles and large tiles (which occupy about four of the standard tile-size slots).  And you can make batch changes (resizes) to tiles. There's also a new app screen that's brought up by swiping upward on the Start Screen.  This menu allows you to add or remove apps from the Live Tile menu.

Windows 8.1
The start screen now has new tile sizes, which help eliminate clutter. [Image Source: Microsoft]

These changes may sound subtle, but anyone who has used Windows Phone 8 (or 7.9) versus the older Windows Phone 7/7.5 knows how big a difference they make, dramatically compacting your start menu and reducing clutter by shrinking lesser-used tiles.

Search has been unified so that users no longer have to click on different categories -- apps, files, settings and web suggestions are all combined in a single results page.  Plus there's a new "Search Hero" feature that allows curated internet searches on a specific topic, allowing the users to learn more about a question of interest.  In many ways this mirrors Google Inc.'s (GOOGknowledge aware search options in Android and the search side of Apple, Inc.'s (AAPLiOS helper Siri.

Apps are now "snappable" when multitasking.  And unlike Windows 7 that simply halves the screen, apps are allocated space based on their needs -- for example an email might only get 40 percent of the screen with 60 percent left for a photo.  Higher resolutions screens will support four side-by-side screens, while the prevailing mid-range resolutions will support two side-by-side snapped apps.

The touch keyboard is also overhauled to support long presses for numbers, foreign punctuation, and other special characters -- similar to Windows Phone.  You can even swipe from the key in the direction of the character you want to type it faster, offering a fast gesture-based way to type special characters.

III. Fixing Windows 8's "Missed Bets"

There's multiple new apps including Internet Explorer 11, plus updated versions of Photos, Calculator (now Modern UI-enabled), Xbox Music, Reading List, Alarms, Bing Food & Drink, Bing Health & Fitness, and more.  The options (Control Panel) menu has also received an overhaul in the Modern UI.

Sky Drive is also much more integrated into the operating systems.  For users comfortable with storing their data in the cloud (which appears to be an increasing majority of the unwashed masses), this means it will be much harder to fill up your hard drive, assuming you have ample internet access.  The important fringe benefit is being able to access your documents on secondary machines via Sky Drive's web interface.

Sky Drive
Sky Drive is deeper integrated in Windows 8.1. [Image Source: Microsoft]

Microsoft's Antoine Leblond, who oversees Windows Web Services, tells The Verge that the company realizes it made some mistakes with Windows 8, commenting, "We really have a great sense of where we got the details of these bets right and where we actually maybe missed a little bit."

But Microsoft is betting that Windows 8.1 will revive slumping sales and restore users confidence in Windows -- enthusiasts and casual users alike.  It's building that hope on a foundation of small changes, which while perhaps subtle on their own, cumulatively add up to what looks to be a much more usable experience.

In other words you can think of Windows 8 as perhaps the tech demo and Windows 8.1 as the finished product.  It took a while, but the preview of that polished build is almost here.

Sources: Engadget, The Verge [1], [2]



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This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

What in the...
By Motoman on 5/30/2013 11:52:30 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
...the button is in the same place and offers a pop-up Live Tile styled menu"


Look at that screenshot. That's not the Start button. What that is a slap in the face of people who want the Start button.

It's a list of f%cking tiles. Who in the f%ck is in charge of this sh1t at MS?

What Win8 needs desperately in order to be valid is the Start button. The real Start button. The one that presents your programs in a tidy ordered list, organized by program folder groups, as has been proved over the past many years to be the optimal form. It needs the Start button as provided by Start8 and other 3rd party apps. It needs the Start button as they already had it in Win7, Vista, XP, 2000, so on and so forth.

This is not the Start button. This does not help. Please, MS, just stop. Your failure only becomes more epic as time goes on.




RE: What in the...
By Argon18 on 5/30/13, Rating: 0
RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 12:52:41 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
The new Start Button works much like the Start Button of old.


After reading the engadget article, this statement made by DT doesn't seem to be true. WTF DT.


RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 5/30/2013 1:04:12 PM , Rating: 4
Seconded. This "Start button" works NOTHING like the Start button of old. This "Start button" is, in fact, not a Start button at all. It's a giant EFF YOU to Microsoft consumers. That's what it is.


RE: What in the...
By artemicion on 5/30/13, Rating: -1
RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/30/2013 1:49:41 PM , Rating: 2
I've read that you can configure it to show "All Apps" by default instead of the tiles. That's reasonably close, IMO.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 2:16:47 PM , Rating: 2
You can do it right now without 8.1
It's a mess when it displays all apps. The hierarchy system works, that's not even close to working if all it does is dump all apps in front of your face.


RE: What in the...
By Mitch101 on 5/30/13, Rating: 0
RE: What in the...
By Belard on 5/31/2013 10:14:48 AM , Rating: 1
then whats the point of the TOUCH UI, if you have to use the damn keyboard to use the shitty "touch UI"?!

Just like the Start button IS there in Win8... just its a dot in a corner you can't see. designed by idiots.


RE: What in the...
By TheJian on 6/1/2013 5:44:48 AM , Rating: 3
So you're saying I should be happy about being slowed down and having to type crap when I know the ENTIRE start menu and where I need to click exactly already?

Quit trying to slow the rest of us down to please the people who can't be bothered to learn how to use an OS. I was a LOT faster in XP than win7, and an order of magnitude faster in XP than Win8 (which will never be on my PC again in any format without being forced to by my job - I've got an MCP on winxp and win7 so it's not like I don't know the OS).

I have no need for any visual pretty crap if it slows me down. Aero etc is all useless to me. Heck I don't even need alt-tab which also slows me down. I know my taskbar and what is in it always and even the order open apps etc are in (re-arranging the order is nice, but you could have added that to XP). While I admit things look good in win7, I much prefer winxp64 which NEVER gets in my way (but I spend a lot of time in explorer, and anyone who does has to hate win7...LOL - replaced by xyplorer currently for me so it's easier to live in win7). Even the search crap is useless to me as I've searched for something on my PC maybe 3 times this year. I know where I put my stuff via a decent folder hierarchy (and I have 4 drives inside 10 outside). Each drives contents are in separate files (easily searchable in a simple folder, once you turn that BACK ON in win7...LOL) and really have no need for even indexing (which again, slows my pc down). I have no need for libraries, they are pointless I already have folders for that. I have no need for windows deciding (despite me turning it off repeatedly) how I need to VIEW my folders or content in them. Leave me and my data alone! Every time I turn around it seems my folders have decided to go back to pic view, mp3 style or some other crap I don't desire. Thank god for something like xyplorer, xplorer2, total commander etc which do NOT mess with me once I set something. File management is a major task of your OS yet MS seems to keep failing at this basic necessity since winxp.

Not sure why people like you insist I must be slowed down for NO good reason. You know why we have MICE and icons etc? So we don't have to take the time to TYPE as often for things that can be done with a simple click (or 2-3 in win7, or 4-5 in win8...LOL. Same things used to be ONE in XP). Touch crap? Useless to me if not on a phone or tablet. I will never reach 100 times a day (more?) to my monitor to do something when I should be able to click a mouse to get the same thing done with minimal effort and maximum speed. If I want to exercise I'll dance in the living room to P90x instead. :) And for anyone thinking the boot times are great, don't be ridiculous. I do that once a month tops and even that is meaningless with an SSD as your boot drive. We don't need a completely new OS. Just enhance or fix the last one. I don't understand the need to muck with stuff that WORKS well already.

So while you're stuck typing, I'm a few clicks ahead and done and on to something else. I really don't understand win8 defenders at all. Sales say you're all wrong and 8.1 won't make it sell any better to IT (much less home users), which is where most money comes from (enterprise). We'll all merrily load XP/Win7 seconds after a pc gets in the door for a long while to come. That will change when someone puts out an OS that actually makes us FASTER and MORE productive not slower and less productive. I can't wait for directx to become useless, as that will give me no reason to stay on windows. I'll happily say hello to a dual or triple boot of linux/chrome (android? firefox?)/macosx (if apple ever pulls their heads out and sells me a copy for my pc for under $100).

With Valve pushing linux games (steambox will help), google/nvidia etc pushing html5,opengl,webgl (and even opencl i guess) there's hope we will finally be out of the MS death grip soon :) Epic recently ported unreal to the web in 4 days and it didn't take a huge team to do it. This is the ease of porting we'll get when things go open instead of directx based.


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/30/2013 4:15:35 PM , Rating: 4
I was talking about this:
http://www.zdnet.com/heres-how-the-new-windows-blu...
quote:
But Microsoft plans to allow users to show "All Apps" by default for those who don't want the tiled interface, my source said. In this view, selecting the Start Button will bring up the Start Screen with a list of apps with icons, and no tiles. Users will be able to arrange the icons by usage, allowing the most commonly used apps to be first. This view is the closest users will get to the Windows 7 Start Menu, even though it will be full-screen, instead of a list.


RE: What in the...
By Mitch101 on 5/30/2013 2:04:38 PM , Rating: 2
Seems to be conflicting information of what start will display when you click on it.

Ive read in a few places that the new Start will be somewhat similar to the old start but when you select the main list for example you chose Microsoft Office instead of getting a sub list you get a more squared window to the right with Tiles/Names. The menu uses more screen real estate but not the full screen start gui that people find annoying. Of the screenshot Ive seen it looks like Pokki except the text is to the right instead of below the icons/tiles.

Here is Pokki
http://www.pokki.com/windows-8-start-menu

I would be sure Microsoft is testing several options hopefully they will let you choose.

I would wait till next month when 8.1 starts beta before getting upset as a lot of publications like to stir the pot jumping to conclusions.

Remember how people spread that 8.1 would cost Windows 8 users to upgrade but its going to be free upgrade?


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 2:19:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Remember how people spread that 8.1 would cost Windows 8 users to upgrade but its going to be free upgrade?


I thought the rumor was that it was going to be free. The expectation was that it was going to cost money because it was called "windows blue"

It turned out the rumor was true.


RE: What in the...
By Mitch101 on 5/30/2013 2:49:20 PM , Rating: 2
However it got started people freaked out and blown way out of proportion before anyone got the official response from Microsoft.

Too many people pre-judge Microsoft products. The worst offenders are ones who never try them but act like product experts.


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 5/30/2013 4:11:56 PM , Rating: 2
This is common today on the internet. Hear a rumor that someone made up because of an assumption (The assumption here being "Microsoft doesn't release versions of Windows for free"). This immediately turns into a "true statement" and provided as a counter argument to those claiming it would be a free upgrade (Also baseless until stated by Microsoft). The same is holding very true about all of the info surrounding the Xbox One. Microsoft made a few official statements and people are inferring the sh*t out of it and making assumptions that are actually baseless other than the fact that it "sounds true."

Just gotta live with it.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 9:10:26 PM , Rating: 2
yea, it's pretty stupid. People make up negative rumors about a company on pure hate. It's just like how people hate on google when everything they offer is free and you have plenty of alternatives.


RE: What in the...
By LRonaldHubbs on 5/31/2013 8:32:53 AM , Rating: 3
It's exactly what you asked for -- a start BUTTON.
Next time you should ask for what you really want -- a start MENU.


RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 5/31/2013 12:29:06 PM , Rating: 1
^

People's Exhibit A on exactly how horrifically retarded all Metrosexual UI apologists are.

Case closed.


RE: What in the...
By LRonaldHubbs on 6/6/2013 8:58:03 AM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry that you can't handle facts. The fact is that you asked for a start BUTTON. You did it many, many times, as your numerous non-editable posts reveal. You even did it in the post to which I was replying:

"This "Start button" works NOTHING like the Start button of old. This "Start button" is, in fact, not a Start button at all."

Fact: You asked for a start button.
Fact: You received a start button.
Fact: What you really wanted was a start menu.

Next time say what you really mean.


RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 6/6/2013 5:50:17 PM , Rating: 2
Everyone please note that this waste of flesh was actually stupid enough to say that.

Check and mate. Utter retard.


RE: What in the...
By LRonaldHubbs on 6/7/2013 7:33:13 AM , Rating: 2
Everyone please note that this individual fails to grasp basic concepts of communications, primarily the importance of actually saying what he means. He would rather call names than make a valid point, because he knows he doesn't have one.

quote:
Check and mate. Utter retard.

Only in your own mind.

Would you like to argue with the words on the page?
Would you like to argue that you did not ask for a start BUTTON?


RE: What in the...
By Labotomizer on 5/30/13, Rating: -1
RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 5/30/2013 12:25:32 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, but any and all Metro apologist explanations have been exhaustively debunked, here and elsewhere.

There is nothing more efficient and easier to navigate than the traditional Start menu. Period.


RE: What in the...
By flyingpants1 on 5/30/2013 12:32:16 PM , Rating: 2
Whoa.. No, improvements are always possible. The Win7 start menu is very good, though.


RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 5/30/2013 12:33:48 PM , Rating: 2
Sure. But square wheels aren't an improvement on round wheels. Even though round wheels are "ancient" and square wheels would be "new."


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/31/2013 9:22:11 AM , Rating: 2
Fewer clicks to launch a program is an improvement, period.

If you think going fullscreen is a bad tradeoff, then that's your opinion, just like a car with stiff suspension is often seen as a bad tradeoff for better handling.

But if you want a car to change directions, or your computer to launch a program, there's no question which methods get these jobs done quicker.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/31/2013 9:40:42 AM , Rating: 5
Start menu: Click start, move to programs, click on program(may or may not need a scroll)
-working within 1/8 of screen without losing sight of your work.
-can easily locate files and folders

Start screen: Push windows key, type first 2 letters, click on icons.
-full screen splash and likely to lose track of your work.
-cannot easily locate files and folders
-Eyes have to screen the entire monitor

It's obvious there's actually more work with Metro and you have to scan the entire screen. If MS did the study on how much brain activity is involved in accomplishing the same task, they will see the Metro UI requires more.

Start menu: Systematic, ordered, structured, and organized in a logical manner. Everything is available and easily repeatable. Can easily remember the entire map of your computer.

Start screen: not everything is available unless you search . If you forgot the name, then you're kinda screwed.
Less structured and organized. No fixed organization or map you can remember to be more efficient.


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/31/13, Rating: 0
RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/31/2013 11:23:08 AM , Rating: 2
Mint,

there's no convincing you. Let's just agree to disagree. I just can't fathom how someone would defend a flawed GUI so much when the creator themselves admit it's a problem. To each his own, cheers! I'm truly glad you found win8 to be better as you are one of the very few people I know that are fine with it.


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/31/2013 12:58:28 PM , Rating: 1
I am always convinced by facts. You haven't presented any.

What are you trying to say about locating files? Do you lose track of your work when an application launches and fills the screen? How is more clicking and scrolling equal to less work?

Just say that you like the Win7 start menu aesthetically and be done with it. I'm not going to argue with you about that.

Don't make up BS about brain activity or work to put down Win8 and its users. It's really condescending for you to say anyone that likes it (and I'm not one of the very few) doesn't do any serious work.


RE: What in the...
By Cheesew1z69 on 6/2/2013 10:00:57 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I am always convinced by facts. You haven't presented any.
Seems pretty common with him.


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/31/2013 11:14:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
No fixed organization or map you can remember to be more efficient.
BS. The start page gives you 2D spatial organization ability, just like a desk, bulletin board, etc.

Here's a great analogy:

Win8 is like an instantly retractable home library shelf. 2D organization however you please, easy scanning to find what you want.

Win7 is like putting all those books in filing cabinets. Well, nested filing cabinets :)

MS was foolish to take away the option of the latter when people were so comfortable with it, but you can't deny the former has some obvious advantages.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 6/2/2013 3:22:46 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
BS. The start page gives you 2D spatial organization ability, just like a desk, bulletin board, etc.

Well I hope so, else what is the point of it?

quote:
Here's a great analogy:

Great! I listed actual pros and cons from actual experience. All of which happens to be in line with everyone else having the same problems.

You call it BS and gave us analogies.

Here's my analogy. You're like a stubborn chef in a failing restaurant insisting that you only fail because your customers does not know how to enjoy food. You don't realize you take too long to cook and your food sucks.


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 6/3/2013 11:15:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I listed actual pros and cons from actual experience.
You listed junk that you just made up.

Why is Win7 better for locating files and folders?

Where is this study that says Win8 needs more brain activity to launch an app?

How does the 2D customizability of the start page equal "No fixed organization or map you can remember"?

Why is tabbed browsing so popular if full screen content changes make you lose track of work?

Love how you try changing the topic with your chef reference. If that's not admitting defeat when your argument runs dry, I don't know what is...


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 6/3/2013 1:34:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You listed junk that you just made up.

If junk = RL experience then I guess you can call it junk. Your junk is as good as my junk.

quote:
Why is Win7 better for locating files and folders?

Because I can search as easy as I can open folders the old fashioned way. There's a hierarchy system that's immediately understood. I can easily and conveniently access my recent files.

quote:
Where is this study that says Win8 needs more brain activity to launch an app?

There isn't but I don't need to have a study to tell you that using both Mouse and keyboards + search + screening a full screen is going to need more brain activity than just using a mouse + screening a small portion of the screen.

quote:
How does the 2D customizability of the start page equal "No fixed organization or map you can remember"?


Because it's a bunch of icons. You are limited because icons take up more space than lists. Icons sizes cannot be resized individually. Hierarchies work because it's broken down by categories, subcategories and so on. Icons are just icons and the best you could do is put all the icons of one category on a page. In that page, you can break it down into more subcategories. If you don't understand that then your organization skills are terrible.

quote:
Why is tabbed browsing so popular if full screen content changes make you lose track of work?

It's popular because you don't have to open the same app twice. It also uses less system memory. What people like most about tab browsing is they can keep track of all the sites they are on easily. You know, like a map of everything going on.
If people can have multiple screens and displaying everything at once then they would rather have that than tabs.

quote:
Love how you try changing the topic with your chef reference. If that's not admitting defeat when your argument runs dry, I don't know what is...

I never changed the topic. You did. I was making an analogy like you did. I guess you don't even like your own medicine. What a hypocrite.


RE: What in the...
By tayb on 5/30/13, Rating: -1
RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 12:50:32 PM , Rating: 3
no it's not. It's an inefficient use of space on a desktop or laptop. It's only efficient in tablets or smaller devices.

You can't tell me that a start button is not better when it can do everything a start screen can but use only 1/8 of the screen


RE: What in the...
By acer905 on 5/30/2013 12:56:36 PM , Rating: 2
See my comment below regarding a possible upgrade to the Start Screen. However, as it is now, why does it matter how big it is?

When you go to the start menu, you focus on the start menu. You then select what you want and the menu goes away, and what you selected pops up.

When you go to the Start Screen, you focus on the start menu. You then select what you want and the Start Screen goes away, and what you selected pops up.

Same thing.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 2:29:21 PM , Rating: 5
Yes it does matter how big it is. When you are working with multiple spreadsheets, powerpoints, documents, windows, calendars, etc.. your mind has a map of what's going on. Splashing an entire blue screen mess you up. Try it sometimes, it's fun.

Your eyes may focus one a single object/space but your brain keeps track of everything. Your peripheral visions also keeps track of things without you focusing on it.

Saying an eye tracking survey says nobody looks at anything else is disregarding how the human brain works. That's like saying you have no spatial memory or awareness, unable to multitask, and tunnel vision.

Think of that blue start screen as a shock/disruption to your short term memory. It's annoying and destroy your train of thoughts sometimes. When I'm deep into a project making reports and analysis, I lose track of everything. Since everything I look at is numbers and formulas, imagine how long it takes me to get back into it.


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 5/30/13, Rating: 0
RE: What in the...
By Xplorer4x4 on 5/30/2013 7:34:24 PM , Rating: 2
I don't get it...As soon as you choose whatever you need on the start screen your work is right where you left it. Start Screen/Start Menu, either way, if you were to open a new spread sheet, it is going to open a new spread sheet right on top of your existing spread sheets. I don't see how it is any different then if that new spread sheet launches maximized.

I am trying to see it from your POV, but I can't see the differences. I am not a huge fan of the Start Screen, but I was never a fan of the Start Menu's nested style. To me the Start Menu is a refreshing change. I do feel that perhaps a simple slide up transition would be better suited for bringing up the start screen.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 8:23:06 PM , Rating: 2
obviously, you have never done any serious work with the PC platform. Like I said, try doing a real big project with multiple datasets, multiple apps/programs, communication software. As soon as the start screen splash in your face when you try to open another app, there's a high chance of you losing track of everything you're doing.

Kinda the same as you focusing on something and someone slaps you in the face. Try maintaining focus after that.


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/31/13, Rating: 0
RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/31/2013 9:44:31 AM , Rating: 4
I would agree with you except there's a massive amount of people having the same problems with the same Metro GUI. But I guess we're all dumb because we don't deal with finite element simulations like you.


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 5/31/13, Rating: 0
RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/31/2013 11:35:00 AM , Rating: 2
Yes there's always someone that complains. It's usually a small percentage. It's apparent here that most complaints are about Metro GUI and it's a very large percentage. At least acknowledge that part.

I'm not here to convince you that win8 is crap. I was voicing my opinion, observation and 8+ months of experience with win8 GUI. I am also not alone as my friends, family, coworkers, as well as other commenters are all in agreement that Metro GUI is not polished for PC use. We all commend it for tablet use though.

I just have problems with some people imposing their will on me as if win8 is better and it's my own inability to properly use it. Clearly, that's not the case.


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/31/2013 1:37:42 PM , Rating: 1
I'm not going to pretend that living in the Metro UI is great for the desktop. Most complaints are about this.

But using it simply as an application launcher? Or for searching? Once you pin your apps to the start page, you can objectively do things faster, and the only cons are aesthetics. Again, bookshelf vs filing cabinet.

The most of your "large percentage" don't even try pinning apps to the start page and using it only as a launcher. I'm not even convinced that you have. They try Metro apps, find them inferior, and have a negative opinion.
quote:
I just have problems with some people imposing their will on me as if win8 is better and it's my own inability to properly use it.
No, you clearly have a bigger problem than that. By your own admission, you think anyone who likes it obviously doesn't do serious work.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 6/2/2013 3:15:08 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm not going to pretend that living in the Metro UI is great for the desktop. Most complaints are about this. But using it simply as an application launcher? Or for searching? Once you pin your apps to the start page, you can objectively do things faster, and the only cons are aesthetics. Again, bookshelf vs filing cabinet.

Ok then stop arguing. We're all saying it doesn't belong on the PC side too. What do you mean by objectively do things better? you must mean subjectively. The masses seems to think it doesn't do anything better besides the live tiles. Not everyone likes live tiles.

quote:
The most of your "large percentage" don't even try pinning apps to the start page and using it only as a launcher. I'm not even convinced that you have. They try Metro apps, find them inferior, and have a negative opinion.

I supposed you pulled this one out of your ass. Myself and almost everyone I know pin things on the task bar and start menu. I've done it for the Metro screen too. Sure it works but it's still not space efficient and annoying. I've removed all the metro apps as it is annoying and a waste of space. It doesn't matter how much I customize my Metro screen, it is still annoying and a hindrance. Seriously, you have to spend way too much time to make it work and it still doesn't work as good as a stock start menu. I've used classic shell since then and I've never looked back at Metro.

quote:
No, you clearly have a bigger problem than that. By your own admission, you think anyone who likes it obviously doesn't do serious work.


Of the thousands of people at my work place and most of them are scientists doing similar work to yours, none of them wants to use win8. I think you are either lying or the only person I know that try to do real work on it. Like I said, the OS is great but the UI is crap. Whatever the truth about your story is will stay with you. That's why I'm glad it worked out for you. The rest of us simply don't care about your bs.


RE: What in the...
By Cheesew1z69 on 6/2/2013 10:03:32 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Ok then stop arguing.
How about you quit talking about shit you don't have a clue about. I think that's the better idea.


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 6/3/2013 11:04:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
What do you mean by objectively do things better? you must mean subjectively.
I didn't say better (which is subjective), I said faster (which is objective).

I can launch an app faster in win 8, because once I hit start, I have 30+ apps/folders one click away, spatially organized in a way I can remember. I can time it, so it's objective.

You're completely wrong in suggesting that this design ethos is anti-M&K. Virtually all apps move away from nested menus and towards a full page if there many things for the user to choose from.
quote:
Sure it works but it's still not space efficient and annoying.
You have yet to explain why space efficiency matters is worth sacrificing time efficiency. The start screen only pops up when I want it to. Otherwise it takes zero space.

Would you rather keep your books in a bunch of drawers or a bookshelf? Would you rather have a deep fridge with a small door or a shallow one with a large opening? It's clear which design ethos lets you do what you want quickly.
quote:
I think you are either lying or the only person I know that try to do real work on it.
Well, I think you are lying, because I don't see how MS can sell 100M licenses if zero out of 1000 like it.


RE: What in the...
By Cheesew1z69 on 6/2/2013 10:28:01 AM , Rating: 1
At this point, I think he is just trolling. He doesn't even WORK in the computer field, he claims to be an accountant. I sure as shit wouldn't listen to anything he thinks he knows about computer related topics.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 6/3/2013 8:07:06 AM , Rating: 2
I guess you are trolling because I have only describe user experience. Do I need to be an expert in IT to describe user experience?


RE: What in the...
By Cheesew1z69 on 6/3/2013 11:58:27 AM , Rating: 2
You describe YOUR experience, and YOUR experience, doesn't speak for everyone.

You are a tool who thinks he knows everything, how everyone feels or thinks, you don't so stfu.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/31/2013 8:09:16 AM , Rating: 2
Because sometimes you need 2 windows of spreadsheets or more. Working with tabs is frustrating when you have a large amount of data from different sources.

Nevermind multiple windows of the same program, multiple windows of different programs is a pain also. Multiple anything is a pain with the GUI in win8. The GUI was made to do one thing at a time(tablet biased) even though the OS itself is excellent at multiple tasking.


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/31/13, Rating: 0
RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/31/2013 9:25:57 AM , Rating: 2
Everything that everyone who is pro-metro suggesting is great and it works. The splash screen is a non issue for many. However for me and apparently a massive amount of people, getting the work done without frustration is more important than dealing with Metro GUI.

I'm glad it worked out for you, but for the rest of us...it's just a hindrance and annoying.


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/31/2013 1:41:10 PM , Rating: 2
Then why did you say this:
quote:
obviously, you have never done any serious work with the PC platform.
You don't sound very glad to me.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 6/2/2013 3:25:44 AM , Rating: 3
It's the nice way of saying "I'm tired of your BS that doesn't have any legitimacy behind it. I wish you luck on everything you do. Have a nice life"
I'm not even glad I've ever met you. You're just a stubborn person.


RE: What in the...
By Cheesew1z69 on 6/3/2013 12:00:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You're just a stubborn person.
Gee, how ironic.

quote:
It's the nice way of saying "I'm tired of your BS that doesn't have any legitimacy behind it. I wish you luck on everything you do. Have a nice life"
Yes, because yours has more legitimacy...ROFL!

Go back under your bridge... seriously. You are a moron.


RE: What in the...
By acer905 on 5/30/2013 12:48:44 PM , Rating: 3
Could you at least admit that there is an aspect of perspective that is needed for that statement. There are a lot of people who simply don't have that many programs installed. My work PC has the office suite, AutoCAD and Solidworks, and not much else. What I use daily is pinned to the taskbar, and what I use often is pinned to the top of the start menu. Once every few months do I need to actually go to the "programs" non-flyout menu for something obscure. Tell me, exactly, how this is any more or less efficient/easier than it would be with Win8?

I understand, if you have a ton of programs it is *logical* to simply hunt them down with Start>Programs>"Company Name">"Program Name" but that doesn't mean that doing it any other way is bad. Especially considering the extra tile/icon sizes that 8.1 gives you, which increase the number that can be shown on screen at any time. And, as always in 7 or 8 if you are going for that obscure program, just type what you want. I mean come on, getting to "disk management" using either the start menu or Start Screen is a pain. Type it in and it pops up in a jiffy.


RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 5/30/13, Rating: 0
RE: What in the...
By Ramstark on 5/30/2013 2:08:07 PM , Rating: 1
Anyone still calling it "metrosexual" UI is a danger to himself...

Please, it has been stated before that functionality has not been hindered, just changed, it is NOT a squared wheel as you compare it, the best assumption is to say that its a spherical wheel, does the same, in a different way.

But it is nonsense, no one will ever convince someone that their "beloved button" is there or was less functional, it is a matter of TASTE.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 2:36:25 PM , Rating: 1
We've proven it had hinder user performance many times over.

Anyone defending the metrosexual UI is a danger to the PC platform. See? it's not hard to make dumb claims.

Seriously, that UI only works for tablets that relies on touch interface. The old Start button would not work well for a touch screen.

The touch interface and GUI is great for tablets and mobile devices for obvious reasons. However, it is a square wheel compared to PC functionality. In touch you only get 1 user input, the touch. In traditional PC input, you get the entire keyboard and mouse with all its buttons/scroll wheel.

The Start Button is a beloved button to me. It has nothing to do with taste but functionality accelerating user performance.


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 5/30/13, Rating: 0
RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 8:35:28 PM , Rating: 2
The start screen works with the M&K but it doesn't work as well as the Start Button. What part of that don't you understand?

A desktop/laptop uses keyboard and mouse. A tablet doesn't. The Metro UI is made mainly for touch interface. MS said that themselves.

MS also claimed that PC OEMs did not package their PC with touch monitors and causing Win8 to be unappealing to customers. That caused a drop in their sales.

I don't know what more you want from this. MS admits it's messed up but they're forcing people to adapt. Everyone using PCs is saying it sucks. Both customers and suppliers are in agreement. What counterpoint can you possibly give to this?


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 5/30/2013 8:52:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The start screen works with the M&K but it doesn't work as well as the Start Button. What part of that don't you understand?

I find the start screen works just as well as the start menu. Perhaps it's just because I use a keyboard + search functionality more than you.
quote:
A desktop/laptop uses keyboard and mouse. A tablet doesn't. The Metro UI is made mainly for touch interface. MS said that themselves.

And I agree. Navigating metro apps is a huge pain with M+K, and on a laptop or desktop I think it's completely useless to work from within the metro interface. That said, using only the start screen does not require navigation between other metro apps, so I feel it would be unfair to classify it this way.

quote:
Everyone using PCs is saying it sucks.

I really don't want you to take my posts the wrong way. I only want to give reasons for people like you and Motoman to understand that there are people who find that the start screen works equally as well as the start menu, and in some cases better. I am in the boat that MS should have never removed the option for users to choose, or at least phased it out over several releases. I also feel there are a lot of improvements to be made on the start screen, and it's not perfect. In fact I feel an ideal solution is somewhere inbetween both. I think the start menu has a superior app layout versus the list view in the start menu, but things that you mention, such as the hierarchy, are obviously better than the "all apps" layout on the start screen.

I do feel that ultimately MS is heading in the wrong direction. Their primary goal is to make the experience across all devices consistent. But what they really need to do is provide a *seamless* experience. Desktop computers do not need to have a tablet interface, they just need to have an interface that allows all of the devices to work together. This is where I think they are failing.

Primary example of the wrong direction:
Tablets are too weak to handle the aero glass effect that's been on desktops fsince Vista. Solution: Remove it, and make a consistent UI across all platforms. I can only hope their next release after 8.1 puts a bit more focus on the desktop, since it is painfully clear that 8.1 was designed to polish off some rough edges in Metro. In some cases I think they've made the OS worse, and I'm actually not sure I will upgrade to 8.1, even though it's free. We will see.

I will also agree that as someone who does like the start screen, I do feel like MS is being completely oblivious as to what people want. A start button that dumps you into the start screen is virtuall useless. At best it provides a better hitbox for users in a windowed remote desktop session, but that's really about it.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/31/2013 8:26:40 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I find the start screen works just as well as the start menu. Perhaps it's just because I use a keyboard + search functionality more than you.

Yes, everyone's different and I tend to like being efficient and simple rather than making things complicated. I have enough things in my head. I don't need to worry about short cuts and app search.

quote:
And I agree. Navigating metro apps is a huge pain with M+K, and on a laptop or desktop I think it's completely useless to work from within the metro interface. That said, using only the start screen does not require navigation between other metro apps, so I feel it would be unfair to classify it this way.

So you finally agree. I don't understand your second part. If I want to launch another program/app, I have to go back to the start screen and let it splash in my face again. There's no way around it except short cuts on task bar and desktop. I can only put so much there until it is cluttered. I don't like cluttering my desktop. It is counterproductive in the long run.

quote:
I do feel that ultimately MS is heading in the wrong direction. Their primary goal is to make the experience across all devices consistent

And that's the biggest problem. You cannot be consistent across all devices. One is a touch interface and the other is mouse and keyboard. That is 2 completely different modes of user input.

The M&K is complex, requires memory and a steep learning curve. It gives users maximum control and accuracy.

The touch input is simple with little learning curve. The GUI is actually supposed to guess what you want and compensate for your mistakes.

See the difference? how could they even try to mix the two?


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 5/31/2013 3:54:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So you finally agree. I don't understand your second part

I'm not "finally agreeing" to anything. I'm agreeing, like I always believed, that the entire metro environment has issues with navigation using M+K. This is to say the things such as the hot corners and gestures to acess things, and the way you switch between metro and desktop is cumbersome. If you isolate the start screen though, these are not issues. You click the same spot you're used to for the start menu to bring it up, but after that it's all self contained. There is very little difficult navigating the start screen itself. Improvements can be made, sure, but overall it works just fine.


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/31/13, Rating: 0
RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/31/2013 9:21:29 AM , Rating: 2
Smart TV is retarded.
Smartphones don't drive me a crazy. Their GUI is correct for that device.

Start screens needs less clicks and scrolling but more mouse movements, keyboard clicks, space, and eye movement.

I don't understand why people are even defending this. It's obvious it is a touch based tablet style GUI. They tried to integrate it with M&K and it doesn't work as good.

No one is arguing that Metro doesn't work. It works and it works great. It just belong in a touch based device like a tablet, not a PC with M&K. Now it would work in an All-in-one computer that do away with the M&K all together.

My argument that win8 GUI mess up people doing work is real. We used to have quite a few win8 PCs here last year. Not a single scientist, admin, HR or accountant was able to stand it while doing real work. Started January this year, no computers have win8 anymore.

I guess you would tell me that everyone here is an idiot. There are thousands of people here and a good portion have phD and post doctorate, the vast majority just have bachelors and masters. Using the PC platform to their fullest is a daily workload for them. They know it better than me. They can write codes as well. Despite all that, not a single person stuck with win8 only because of the GUI.


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/31/13, Rating: 0
RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/31/2013 11:19:16 AM , Rating: 2
I'm glad it worked out for you. As a reality check, people complained and MS admitted it was a serious problem. Getting MS to admit something was their fault is almost as hard to getting Apple to apologize.

You seem to not grasp that Metro UI is inefficient. They used icons and took up the space of the whole screen. Why the hell do I need icons in my start screen when I have a desktop with icons. A smart way would be to make the desktop as customizeable as the start screen and still have the old hierarchy list style start menu. We'd have the best of both worlds and nobody will complain.

Win8 feels like an incomplete and half baked project on the GUI front. It drives a ton of people nuts. I don't know why you keep defending it. Nobody says win8 itself sucks, they're all saying Metro is confusing and frustrating to use. In its current form, it feels like having 2 desktops with different personalities. It confuses most people.


RE: What in the...
By Labotomizer on 5/30/2013 3:47:21 PM , Rating: 1
Again, I get that no one is going to convince you that the Start Screen is as good as, let alone better, than the Start Menu. There are about a dozen different replacements for the Start Menu, and several I've seen are better than the Windows 7 start menu and cost a few dollars. For those of us who don't like to hunt and peck for information the Start screen is at least as good. Start button, start typing. Now I get better results, and more, than I could in the start menu. That's the extent of its use on the desktop for me. It was the extent of the start menu for me as well. Everything important is pinned to the start bar.

On my Surface I'm in Metro 75% of the time and it's awesome. On my desktop it's less than 5%. If I thought the start menu was important I'd get an improved one.

The fact that something so simply remedied has you so upset just blows my mind. Windows 8 is an improvement over Windows 7, and flexibility for Start Menu replacements is actually a plus I would think, at least to someone who thinks it's so incredibly important.


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/31/2013 8:37:47 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
For those of us who don't like to hunt and peck for information the Start screen is at least as good.
Thank you.

Even if you don't use the keyboard, it's insane that all these haters refuse to admit that Win7 needs more clicks and scrolling to launch what you want.

I have no problem with people preferring the Win7 start menu, and MS should have kept the option to use it. However, needing more clicks and time is by definition less efficient.


RE: What in the...
By Belard on 5/31/2013 10:19:27 AM , Rating: 3
On Windows 7, press the WINDOWS KEY and start typing... OMG!

Hey, MS is wetting their panties because you can run 3 metro apps at the same time! OMG OMG OMG!


RE: What in the...
By Mint on 5/30/13, Rating: -1
RE: What in the...
By nikon133 on 5/31/2013 8:35:10 AM , Rating: 2
And yet, I like Start screen more than Start menu. Period.

That being said, I do agree that both systems should be available for users to choose and select default one.


RE: What in the...
By SeeManRun on 5/30/2013 12:18:35 PM , Rating: 2
I am not sure what image shows the start button being pressed. It looks more like you can see the start button, but the tiles on the side are not the result of you pressing it.


RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 5/30/2013 12:34:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Rather in either mode the button is in the same place and offers a pop-up Live Tile styled menu.


The caption on the image also states that it's showing the Start "menu."


RE: What in the...
By JasonMick (blog) on 5/30/2013 12:55:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The caption on the image also states that it's showing the Start "menu."
As far as I could tell, yes it is. Note those appear to be app lives tiles in the pane on the right for various commonly used "Modern UI" apps (Bing Health & Fitness, News, Sports, etc.). This seems to match the description Microsoft gave.

Note, I'm not quite sure what the OS will do if you have a commonly used "legacy" Desktop app without a user-defined Live Tile ... the Modern UI will probably auto-generate some placeholder tile.

I agree, if you hate the Modern UI it sounds like you'll still gripe about the Start Menu (by the sound of it), but at least you can access a list of apps, even if it is visually different (and unappealing in some people's eyes).


RE: What in the...
By LRonaldHubbs on 5/30/2013 1:56:58 PM , Rating: 2
The caption is wrong. What that screenshot actually shows is the task switcher for Metro apps. Previously the task switcher did contain a start button of sorts, but it was just a tile that showed and linked to the start screen. Now it instead looks like a start button.

The start button that Microsoft has added to the desktop taskbar (which is not shown in any of these screenshots), merely launches the start screen, exactly the same as pressing the Windows key already does. The start menu has not returned in any form; this update gives you literally a start button and nothing more.


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 5/30/2013 4:20:26 PM , Rating: 2
Yet another point of argument showing that Motoman has probably never even used Windows 8. Anyone who has used and tried to learn Windows 8's interface for more than 5 minutes should be able to tell you that that's the task switcher utility for metro apps, and that they replaced the start screen icon with a windows logo and the word "Start"


RE: What in the...
By LRonaldHubbs on 5/31/2013 8:20:05 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed. It's completely obvious that he's never even tried it.


RE: What in the...
By DrChemist on 5/30/2013 1:14:26 PM , Rating: 1
You know that by just typing, after clicking the start, the first letter of the program, the search finds the program for you and you just press enter and it opens.

Let's say for instance you have 20 programs you use daily the start screen will show all them. However, if you use a program that is uncommon and you type the first two letters it will most likely pop up with your choice and then press enter. It takes longer to move the mouse over to the start then over to programs then click the folder to open the programs for that folder then click again. This process is highly inefficient. Otherwise 1000s of people would never pin things to the taskbar like they do in Win 7 or XP. Welcome to something new dinosaurs and get with the program and stop acting like my 65 yr old mom who says, "Where's the start button. What do I press? Oh these computers are too difficult, you use it."

If you don't believe me time yourself. It takes me < 8 sec to open Skype with all my programs in the start menu on Win 7. With Win 8 it takes <3 sec. Faster with it on the home screen. If you pin it to the taskbar it is the same speed for both.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 2:39:08 PM , Rating: 2
It took me about 2 seconds to open any program with the start menu and usually in 3 clicks or less. I have no need to use the keyboard. It does not splash me with an entire screen of live tiles or take me away from my current work.

I don't understand how this is better.


RE: What in the...
By DrChemist on 5/30/2013 4:16:12 PM , Rating: 2
You also have to understand that the screen size is not large like a normal desktop or laptop anymore. Smaller screens are more common now for ultrabooks and such being <12 in. More and more people are going to laptops or tablets and desktops sales are dropping like a lead brick. Pull down menus or pop ups are not an efficient use of smaller space. People want to be mobile but there should be a choice. I know I still like large power user desktops but this is not the norm now a days.

I agree that exceptions need to be in place to lock in the start menu and desktop depending on the user and his device being used.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 8:30:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You also have to understand that the screen size is not large like a normal desktop or laptop anymore. Smaller screens are more common now for ultrabooks and such being <12 in. More and more people are going to laptops or tablets and desktops sales are dropping like a lead brick. Pull down menus or pop ups are not an efficient use of smaller space. People want to be mobile but there should be a choice. I know I still like large power user desktops but this is not the norm now a days.


That's what we're all saying. It's a great tablet/mobile device GUI. It doesn't belong in desktop/laptops. The start button would be horrible in tablet/mobile devices.

They complain about the market going for the tablets and not PCs. WTF? they're pushing everyone towards it by making the PC unappealing.


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 5/30/13, Rating: 0
RE: What in the...
By Cheesew1z69 on 5/30/2013 6:57:52 PM , Rating: 2
Dude has an argument for EVERYTHING.... it's ridiculous.


RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 5/30/2013 7:21:39 PM , Rating: 4
That would be a valid point...if the same wasn't true of Win7, Vista, and even XP (with the Windows update that added the Search thing to the taskbar).

So...you actually have no point at all.

Besides, what if you don't recall the name of the program at the moment? And either way, you have to move your had from the mouse to the keyboard, type, then move your hand back to the mouse. That's a lot of time-wasting movement. And...it's why we stopped using text-driven UIs in the first place and started using GUIs. To introduce a GUI that's so bad that going back to typing things is the better option...? And you think this is a good thing.

Children like you are so lost it's just staggering.


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 5/30/2013 8:08:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And either way, you have to move your had from the mouse to the keyboard, type, then move your hand back to the mouse. That's a lot of time-wasting movement.

Are you even listening to yourself? Do you realize how little time it takes to move your hands to your keyboard? I could be using my mouse, move my hands to the keyboard, hit the start button, type "cal" then enter faster than you can click start>programs>accessories>calculator. I guarantee it. If you cannot do the same you must be a dinosaur.

You don't seriously believe that everything can be done faster with a mouse and GUI, do you? If so I cannot even imagine how you've been in IT as long as you claim you have.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 9:08:56 PM , Rating: 2
so your justification is use the keyboard. But why use a keyboard when i never had to before and be able to accomplish the same task in less time?

isn't this supposed to be better and not more cumbersome?
It's supposed to be an upgrade is it not? It's only an upgrade for tablets.


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 5/30/2013 10:13:06 PM , Rating: 2
I guess I just don't believe that using the keyboard + search features of the start menu or start screen is harder or more cumbersome than using the mouse. I haven't manually dug around for a program with the mouse in the start menu for like 5 years.

I'm telling ya, if you try at all you'll realize how convenient using the search is over the mouse and the hierarchical programs list. You can launch any program in a fraction of a second.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 5/31/2013 8:05:56 AM , Rating: 2
Let's try some logic here. I will just go out on a limb and assume that both methods use the same amount of time. Even though I've used it for 8 months and still cannot do it faster than a start button.

I'm forced to use both keyboard and mouse to get the same result as just the mouse alone. I'm forced to look at a whole screen of annoying live tiles instead of just a quick concise menu.

It's not an improvement for PC users. You're adding additional actions to get the same result in the same or more time. Millions complained and even MS acknowledged it. I don't understand why you and a few others are so bent on defending something both sides admit is unpleasant.


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 5/31/2013 3:58:59 PM , Rating: 2
See this is where we differ. You argue under the assumption that the two would take identical amounts of time, and that the end result is simply needing to learn more.

I argue that using the search functionality is hands down, guaranteed, faster than using the mouse, any day of the week. Clicking and scrolling through a heirarchical menu will always be slower. It is less efficient to find things than using search. Once I started using the search functionality of the start menu I was shocked at how much quicker I could access things.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 6/2/2013 3:02:23 AM , Rating: 2
The search functionality is not faster. I know exactly what i'm looking for and where to get it with the start menu. I don't see how you can ever justify pulling up a start screen and start typing to search, then screening through the results is faster. It's not and a flat out lie.

Dancing icons are a waste of space and belong on tablets or smaller devices. What is the point of desktop icons and start screen icons. It's redundant and dumb. They did a sloppy job of slapping two things together.


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 6/3/2013 11:27:51 AM , Rating: 2
Why do you think I'm screening through results. 99/100 times the search yields what you are looking for after about 3 characters. You just hit enter and you're done.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 6/3/2013 1:15:06 PM , Rating: 1
So you type in 3 letters or clicks. You may have to look at the keyboard since you only have one hand on it. Then you have to stare at the screen to click on it since you may have multiple results.

You don't see it as inefficient compared to just looking at the screen and making the same amount of clicks without having to touch the keyboard? I don't understand why you defend this crap so hard.

Fact:
1. millions of users have problems with Metro on PC
2. MS admitted it is a problem
3. Start Menu software have tens of millions of downloads

For you, it works. That's great. It seems like tens of millions prefer the start menu. Is that so hard to understand?

I'm not trying to convince you that your views are wrong and win8 does not work for everyone. I'm stating the obvious problems that millions of users have. If win8 isn't a problem for you, then keep using it. You don't have to convince me to like it. Are you MS or something?


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 6/3/2013 1:21:43 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure why this is so hard for you. Duplicates for apps don't appear often.

Do the following:

-Press windows key (or click start)
-Press 'c'
-Press 'a'
-Press 'l'
-Press 'Enter'

Why do you have to look at the keyboard then try to filter the results by looking at them. 3 key presses is far more efficient than 3 clicks.

Also I'm not sure why you are bringing up the start screen at all in this little side discussion, it is irrelevant. This is a feature of the windows 7 start menu as well, I never attempted to imply that this was an advantage in the start screen. I'm just trying to let you know that there is an objectively faster way to launch your applications, even on Windows 7.


RE: What in the...
By BRB29 on 6/3/2013 1:40:08 PM , Rating: 2
Like everyone else using a computer, my left hand is on the keyboard and my right is on the mouse. Only exception is if im left handed.

Say if I want to search for Powerpoint or Microsoft. I would have to look at the keyboard or move my right hand on the keyboard. If I type Pow or mic then there'll be multiple results. Now I would either have to type the whole word, use the mouse or arrow keys. Wow that's not more complicated?

As opposed to start menu. click click click and I'm in it before I can fart.


RE: What in the...
By Cheesew1z69 on 6/3/2013 1:50:48 PM , Rating: 2
Hawk, you aren't going to convince this troll no matter what. You would be best served to stop feeding it.


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 6/3/2013 2:01:40 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I don't know why I bother, it's really not worth. I tried to help, I guess he doesn't want to learn how to do things faster, even in Win7.


RE: What in the...
By Belard on 5/31/2013 10:27:00 AM , Rating: 2
On Windows 7, press the WINDOWS KEY and start typing... OMG!

So what are YOU talking about?! Also, unlike typical people - I clean up my Start Menu. I break things down into WORK, Games, Internet, Tools, etc... been doing that from how we did thing on the Amiga. So SKYPE would be in the Internet folder. I delete junk that is not needed or move thing around. A typical stupid printer install (like HP) will create 4 folders! I put them all under the name of the Printer, then stick it under my Hardware folder.

Metro or desktop... Win8 is still butt ugly. I've already got LinuxMint on one of my notebook FULL TIME. Its no Windows7, but its "learning curve" is that of a desktop OS so its not difficult. Things are were they should be.

Android and iOS also have little "learning curve" - Windows8 is one of many of failures of Microsoft. Yes, they are making money with Office365... but most people simply don't need it.


RE: What in the...
By AstroCreep on 5/30/2013 2:03:02 PM , Rating: 2
I have no real problem with the new Start screen, but this is just going to aggravate people and make the critics complain even louder.

So is the Start button going to be on the Desktop again? If so, I click it and it will bring up the side-bar, which has the Start 'tip', which I can click again to bring up the full Start menu? If so, it's not so bad, but the "General" user-base will still gripe.


RE: What in the...
By DrizztVD on 5/30/2013 3:22:56 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Look at that screenshot. That's not the Start button. What that is a slap in the face of people who want the Start button.


I have a solution for you: why don't you stick with Windows 7 buddy? If this new system isn't working for you, really, no one is pressuring you into installing Windows 8. 7 Will be supported for quite some time yet, so the good news is that way you have years of Start Button bliss ahead of you. O the joy.

As for myself, the new tiles system took a short while to get used to, but I'm getting to liking the new routine. You kinda have to figure out that the search and Metro screen isn't the same thing. But I'd say Microsoft executed about 95% of perfect on the first Windows 8.

Being a programmer at Microsoft surely must require having a good sense of humour. Innovate: people yell at you. Don't innovate: people yell at you. O the irony.

Well done Microsoft, you certainly are keeping huge mindshare amongst the people.


RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 5/30/2013 7:26:15 PM , Rating: 2
I personally will be sticking with Win7. But I have to support people that will wind up with Win8. And there's no way for an average person to buy a PC that doesn't have Win8 on it anymore...walk into a Best Buy and show me how many options there are to buy machines with Win7 on them (hint: none).

And for the *vast* majority of the unwashed masses, doing something that to any DT reader seems so blindingly simple as installing Start8 (or something similar) is simply out of the question. Probably 99% of all PC users are going to have neither the aptitude nor the inclination to do any such thing.

So people are staying away from buying new PCs in droves.

Other than a few ridiculously loud fanbois that pop up on sites like this, it's clear that the VAST majority of the market has utterly rejected the Metrosexual UI.

...which, by the way, is not an "innovation" at all. It's horribly worse than what came before - that's not an innovation. It's stupidity and incompetance...it's thrashing about trying to convince the world that you're some kind of awesome thought leader when what you really are is an emperor with no clothes.


RE: What in the...
By LRonaldHubbs on 5/31/2013 8:35:28 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
it's clear that the VAST majority of the market has utterly rejected the Metrosexual UI.

Ah, the anti-Win8 echo chamber. It almost rivals the hilarity of the Republican echo chamber.


RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 5/31/2013 11:26:14 AM , Rating: 2
Ah, the willful ignorance of the Win8 fanboi reality distortion field.

Win8 has destroyed the PC market. OEMs and consumers both are forcing MS to backtrack. This is the greatest failure in the history of Microsoft, and here you are throwing your horrific stupidity into overdrive trying to convince the internet that the world is flat.


RE: What in the...
By inighthawki on 5/31/2013 4:00:46 PM , Rating: 2
You are pulling that out of you a$$. Windows 8 is selling just fine, particularly across the mobile market. You make up a vocal minority of tech users, and you probably outnumber the number of tech users like myself that like the start screen (do not confuse this with liking metro). But for the common person, this is utterly wrong. Windows 8 has been well received by common users.


RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 6/1/2013 4:38:03 PM , Rating: 2
Once again, you're flat-out lying.

I have met *no one* who likes Win8. Out of hundreds of people I normally have contact with on a regular basis.

The rejection of the Metrosexual UI is nearly universal. The effect on the industry is irrefutable.

YOU are the one who is a part of a disproportionately loud minority. Nowhere but on the internet can one find someone who likes Win8. Your lies and reality distortion field won't change these unalterable facts - which are the very reason why MS is backtracking like crazy and apologizing profusely and wildly flailing about trying to find some way to strike a balance between Metro and what people actually want.

The ultimate problem being that what people actually want - all people except for an insignificant minority - is no Metro at all.


RE: What in the...
By LRonaldHubbs on 6/6/2013 9:14:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have met *no one* who likes Win8.

quote:
The rejection of the Metrosexual UI is nearly universal.

This is a classic fallacy. I don't know anyone who agrees with X, therefore X is universally wrong!

Also:
quote:
I have met *no one* who likes Win8. Out of hundreds of people I normally have contact with on a regular basis.

Because this is the internet, hundreds actually means 2. Also, I thought you said it was a flop. How then have you personally met 'hundreds' of Win8 users?

Flat-out lying indeed...


RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 6/6/2013 5:49:34 PM , Rating: 1
You're such a fagtard it's just stunning.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9238326/Win...

Et al. It's not "jsut me" saying that the Metro UI is being universally rejected. It's the biggest market analysts in the buisness, like IDC and Gartner. Naturally, you're aware of that...because it's been reported here on DT too...but it doesn't fit your retarded worldview so you pretend it didn't happen.

Also, I don't know hundres of Windows 8 users. I normally come into contact with hundreds of Windows users, period - all of which have a personal opinion of Windows 8 from either having tried it on someone else's PC, or maybe just seeing it and playing with it in the store. A few of them have had Windows 8 foisted upon them against their will...like, because there's no new PCs with Win7 anymore available at normal retailers.

None of them like Win8. Everyone who doesn't have Win8 wants to avoid it at all costs, and everyone with Win8 has me put Start8 on their machine and show them how to avoid the Metro UI altogether.

Nice of you to purposefully twist my words though. But naturally, that's what liars do. And you're a horrifically bad person for being such a habitual liar, especially when it's so trivial to prove your lies - like by referincing IDC and Gartner studies.


RE: What in the...
By LRonaldHubbs on 6/7/2013 7:51:39 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Also, I don't know hundres of Windows 8 users. I normally come into contact with hundreds of Windows users, period - all of which have a personal opinion of Windows 8 from either having tried it on someone else's PC, or maybe just seeing it and playing with it in the store. A few of them have had Windows 8 foisted upon them against their will...like, because there's no new PCs with Win7 anymore available at normal retailers.

Like I said, internet, hundreds = 2. There is absolutely no way to prove or disprove your claim. This anecdotal 'evidence' is worthless.

quote:
None of them like Win8. Everyone who doesn't have Win8 wants to avoid it at all costs, and everyone with Win8 has me put Start8 on their machine and show them how to avoid the Metro UI altogether.

So you're talking about people who aren't technically literate enough to install Start8 themselves, people who go to you for tech help. And you expect me to believe that your intense bias against Win8 isn't what convinced them that they don't/shouldn't like it. Yeah, right. I wasn't born yesterday.

quote:
Nice of you to purposefully twist my words though. But naturally, that's what liars do. And you're a horrifically bad person for being such a habitual liar

I didn't twist you words. I replied to exactly what was written there. All I did was point out the fallacies of what you wrote. Are you saying that, once again, your words don't indicate what you really mean? You really should work on that...

Also, nothing in my post was a lie. Show me a single lie. There isn't any. As usual you resort to ad hominem attacks because you know I'm right.


RE: What in the...
By LRonaldHubbs on 6/7/2013 8:19:32 AM , Rating: 2
Also, I just can't get past the hilarity of the fact that you didn't even know that the start button in the screenshots. You know so little about the Metro interface that you couldn't even recognize something as basic as the task switcher, yet you're on this ridiculous crusade to smear anyone who says anything positive about Win8 as a whole. Or do you want to claim I'm lying about this too?

pwnd.
http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+81+Gets+Previewed...


RE: What in the...
By LRonaldHubbs on 6/6/2013 9:01:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ah, the willful ignorance of the Win8 fanboi reality distortion field.

I've said over and over that I don't even use the Metro UI. I use Start8 with the Win7 start menu and boot to desktop. I'm anything but a fanboi. The real problem here is that you are a whiney loudmouth with absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and I can't/won't let it go unchecked.

quote:
Win8 has destroyed the PC market. OEMs and consumers both are forcing MS to backtrack. This is the greatest failure in the history of Microsoft...

...and also the sky is falling...
...and also the world will end in 2012.

We've heard plenty of this nonsense from people like you. Your BS isn't fooling anyone with a working brain.


RE: What in the...
By Belard on 5/31/2013 10:34:20 AM , Rating: 2
So how many Win7 computers does Best Buy, Walmart, Target or most online brands sell?

Only Win7 option is the PRO version sold on business models... like ThinkPads. THing is, MS counts those a WIN8 sales with Win7 "downgrade" rights.

If a store had equal availability of PC models with Win7, those Win8 PCs will be dusty. Much like the HTC First (Facebook) phones... not selling. HTC should make a standard Android replacement ROM... the FIRST is a nice looking small phone, worth the $1 easily.


RE: What in the...
By Chadder007 on 5/30/2013 8:00:33 PM , Rating: 2
I missed the taskbàr more so and the way you could multitask with separate program windows than the start button itself. That's where windows 8 failed me.


RE: What in the...
By Azsen on 5/30/2013 9:08:22 PM , Rating: 2
The Start button isn't useful for me anymore. Basically it just contains a list of random programs that got installed at some point. Occasionally I go in there to find an app I don't normally use, or want to access the control panel.

What is useful is the Quick Launch (which got hidden in Windows 7) because you could load programs with a single button click. Also the search/run text box which is inside the Start menu in Windows 7. That lets you type a few words and run whatever program you want.


RE: What in the...
By LRonaldHubbs on 5/31/2013 8:32:00 AM , Rating: 2
Your angry reaction to this screenshot is hilarious given that you don't even know what is in said screenshot. That is not the desktop start button, and those tiles are not a new start menu. What is shown is the Metro task switcher, which has always had a link to the start screen. They've merely changed the appearance of that link. The new desktop start button merely links to the start screen, and it is not shown in any of these screenshots.

Had you ever actually tried Windows 8, or simply educated yourself about its interface, you would have known all of this.

Now here's the real slap in the face: people like you have been crying for the return of the start button, and that is exactly what Microsoft just gave you -- no more, no less. What you actually wanted was the start menu, but that's not what you've been saying. Your post right here is a perfect example. Be careful what you wish for, because you just got it!


RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 5/31/2013 12:27:09 PM , Rating: 2
The depth of your stupidity is staggering.

I've set up a number of Win8 machines. For every person that I've done so for, they insisted on having Start8 installed and default boot to the traditional desktop. NO ONE even wants to see the Metrosexual UI, let alone waste a single second trying to figure out how to use it.

Secondly, this is an awesome example of what a retard you Metrotards are:

quote:
Now here's the real slap in the face: people like you have been crying for the return of the start button, and that is exactly what Microsoft just gave you -- no more, no less.


Um, no. That "start" thing they put in there is NOTHING LIKE the real Start menu. Not at all. It's an absolute waste of space, like the Metrosexual UI itself. No more, no less. The fact that you can look at that and even say something that horribly deficient is staggering.


RE: What in the...
By LRonaldHubbs on 6/6/2013 9:10:05 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I've set up a number of Win8 machines. For every person that I've done so for, they insisted on having Start8 installed and default boot to the traditional desktop. NO ONE even wants to see the Metrosexual UI, let alone waste a single second trying to figure out how to use it.

So you've set up "a number" (how many, 1?) of Win8 machines, but you didn't know enough about the interface to know that the screenshot in the article didn't show the button? Anyone who's used it for more than a couple minutes would have known

The fact is you were wrong, and that's because you don't even know much about what it is that you're criticizing.

quote:
quote LRonaldHubbs:
Now here's the real slap in the face: people like you have been crying for the return of the start button, and that is exactly what Microsoft just gave you -- no more, no less.


Ah, that classic misquote by omission. Try including that next sentence:
quote:
What you actually wanted was the start menu, but that's not what you've been saying.

Fact: You asked for a start BUTTON. Go read your own posts.
Fact: Microsoft gave you a start button -- no more, no less.

quote:
Um, no. That "start" thing they put in there is NOTHING LIKE the real Start menu. Not at all. It's an absolute waste of space, like the Metrosexual UI itself. No more, no less. The fact that you can look at that and even say something that horribly deficient is staggering.

Indeed, it is nothing like a start menu, nor did I ever say it was. You're feebly attempting to twist words. In your previous post (and every other post) you said start BUTTON, and that's what I replied to. It's only now that I've called out your failure of description that you have switched to saying start MENU.

This entire discussion thread is born out of your failure to communicate and to understand.


RE: What in the...
By LRonaldHubbs on 6/7/2013 8:24:53 AM , Rating: 2
Also...

quote:
Metrosexual UI

Looks like this is the new M$. Yay.

You snarkily throw it in as often as possible, thinking that you sound clever. In reality it only hilights your bias and lack of credibility.


RE: What in the...
By saganhill on 5/31/2013 8:32:45 AM , Rating: 2
Quit living in the 1990's.


RE: What in the...
By Motoman on 5/31/2013 12:27:37 PM , Rating: 2
Quit pretending that the emperor isn't naked.


Star buttont functionality, the same?
By Nexing on 5/30/2013 1:44:12 PM , Rating: 2
So how many clicks and how far the cursor has to go in order to:
-Shut down the Laptop/PC?
-Restart?
-Access any Program the old Start button Menu had?

In other words, how easily accessible for the mouse and keyboard will be the 8.1 start button?

In terms of clicks, shut down needed two in W7, including the one needed to open up the menu. Modern GUI 8.1???
Restart needed the same two clicks plus a minor cursor displacement to point into the automatic submenu opening (small triangle).
Programs required two clicks and the cursor displacement (in this case customizable).




RE: Star buttont functionality, the same?
By Ramstark on 5/30/2013 2:13:19 PM , Rating: 1
Or you just can pin the shutdown command to the startscreen and make it 1 click...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2807761

Solutions are what we do for a living, and please don't start with the "I never had to do anything by myself on Windows7" rhetoric, in this generation, you aren't supposed to turn off your device everyday...


RE: Star buttont functionality, the same?
By anactoraaron on 5/30/2013 3:17:32 PM , Rating: 2
Screw that mouse scrolling the fastest way is to just ALT+F4 on the and enter on the desktop since shut down is always the selected....WTF!?!?! No more ALT+F4???

And don't give us that fake "you can pin it" BS- the point of a fluid intuitive UI is to not make the user "pin" common tasks. Those things should be easy to get to by default. That's the point of a UI. Need to start your machine and don't know how with windows 8? Just pin the startup icon. then pin the restart icon, then pin the shutdown icon. Seriously??? STFU>FO.


RE: Star buttont functionality, the same?
By Labotomizer on 5/30/2013 3:55:59 PM , Rating: 2
Ummm, ALT+F4 still works.

Although I haven't shutdown that way in a very long time.


RE: Star buttont functionality, the same?
By anactoraaron on 5/30/2013 10:04:20 PM , Rating: 2
OK I said you could shut down from the desktop and press ALT+F4 and bring up the power menu... and I have a desktop running Win8 Pro and I can't get a shutdown screen from the desktop by pressing ALT+F4 with no programs running...

So either you don't know that it doesn't work anymore to shut down a machine in win8 or you thought I was talking in general... which I wasn't. I specifically said shutting down.

quote:
Ummm, ALT+F4 still works.

No, it doesn't. Not to shut down anyway.


By inighthawki on 5/30/2013 10:10:55 PM , Rating: 2
Not sure what's wrong with your computer, but hitting Alt+F4 on the desktop in Win 8 brings up the dialog to shut down the machine. I can provide a screenshot if necessary :)


By Nexing on 5/30/2013 3:49:14 PM , Rating: 2
So then, what stop us to have a customizable tile placed at the lower left of the Modern UI, that is made of small tiles each including links to sub-menus which open up most used programs or links? This composite tile would grey-out and be linked to the W( logo... and voila! W7 start button

Obviously such a small tile would not be instantly accesses in small devices, but would solve the most of lost functionality.


By Jeffk464 on 5/30/2013 2:41:37 PM , Rating: 2
You just close the lid


DailyTech is mistaken
By eek2121 on 5/30/2013 12:46:42 PM , Rating: 2
DailyTech is mistaken, reading the original article on engadget, it appears that the start menu DOES bring up the start screen. See http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/30/microsoft-windo...




RE: DailyTech is mistaken
By JasonMick (blog) on 5/30/2013 12:58:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
it looks more like the Live Tiles are popping up on top of the desktop
That's what Engadget wrote. It's hard to tell one way or another. But It sounds like there will be a series of live tiles in a pane ON the Desktop (see the snapped panes image) -- that's how I interpreted it based on the pictures.

I'll reword slightly to make it clear that this is somewhat unclear at this point, though.

If anyone has any definitive information let me know, otherwise let's wait and see with the RP, and I'll update the piece then, if necessary.


RE: DailyTech is mistaken
By zero2dash on 5/30/2013 1:11:49 PM , Rating: 2
http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/coming-blue-boot...
quote:
Start button
This one is interesting: According to Mary Jo’s source, the Start button will be enabled—on the desktop only—by default. It will look just like the Start charm in Windows 8, and be positioned in the same place as it was in Windows 7, but will of course trigger the new Start screen when clicked, and not the legacy Start menu. When you mouse into the lower left corner of the screen in any “Metro” experience, you’ll see the new Start button instead of the Windows 8 Start tip.

But here’s the trick: If you do click this button, it will remain displayed on the desktop going forward. If you don’t, and instead use a hardware Windows key, the Start button will disappear and things will work as they do in Windows 8. You can of course manually enable and disable this button as you prefer.


RE: DailyTech is mistaken
By JasonMick (blog) on 5/30/2013 3:38:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This one is interesting: According to Mary Jo’s source, the Start button will be enabled—on the desktop only—by default. It will look just like the Start charm in Windows 8, and be positioned in the same place as it was in Windows 7, but will of course trigger the new Start screen when clicked, and not the legacy Start menu. When you mouse into the lower left corner of the screen in any “Metro” experience, you’ll see the new Start button instead of the Windows 8 Start tip.

I suppose this could be the case... clearly that's not what people want.

In that case it'd be kind of like a Metro "home" button (akin to the iPhone's button) rather than a true start button.

I was hopeful based on the language of both reports that it will instead be a Live Tiles pop-up menu (which is possible given that the Mary Jo Foley report which you site -- and which I link to in the article -- is relatively older). But maybe not.

Hopefully Microsoft is listening though and indeed goes that route.

People want a Start Menu ON the Desktop, not to be yanked out of the Desktop when they click a button.


RE: DailyTech is mistaken
By domboy on 5/30/2013 1:51:59 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think that's what it is. I think that screen shot is showing the app selection pane (not sure on the official name), i.e. what you get when you left-swipe out and back in (or move the mouse to the upper left corner, and then move it straight down). Currently this pane has a funny icon at the bottom that looks like a tiny start screen and actually says "Start" (same icon as if you hover the mouse in the lower left corner of the desktop), and in this picture now it shows a windows logo instead. I could be wrong though.


LOL
By flyingpants1 on 5/30/2013 12:29:32 PM , Rating: 4
Is that supposed to be the new Start menu with "live tiles" pictured? Sports? Food & Drink? Ahahaha.. They just don't get it over there at Microsoft. Start8 is going to go triple-platinum.




RE: LOL
By Motoman on 5/30/2013 12:35:56 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah. The entire workforce at Stardock just breathed a huge sigh of relief. For a minute there, they thought Microsoft was actually going to fix something...


RE: LOL
By acer905 on 5/30/2013 12:52:52 PM , Rating: 2
No. That is the equivalent of *alt-tab* for desktop programs, but for the Metro ones. Not the start menu, or start screen. The only difference between 8 and 8.1 regarding that is the inclusion of the start button, presumably for when you are switching between apps on a tablet, you can swype over and click that if you feel like going to the Start Screen instead of switching to an active program.


Thank God!!
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 11:29:16 AM , Rating: 2
Give it to me sooner I may actually pay a few bucks for it.




RE: Thank God!!
By BRB29 on 5/30/2013 1:31:33 PM , Rating: 2
I was wrong, there's nothing new here. Just DT interpreting the news wrong.


chrome os
By Jeffk464 on 5/30/2013 1:37:36 PM , Rating: 2
Personally my next laptop will probably be chrome os. I have used every single version of windows but find I now do everything through Google services. Chrome os gives me simple reliability and less fear when doing online banking. I basically just need windows on my gaming machine.




RE: chrome os
By Jeffk464 on 5/30/2013 1:42:34 PM , Rating: 2
Even now I try to avoid installing much on my laptop and do everything through the chrome browser. The more programs the more chance for a security flaw. Definitely avoid java and adobe.


GIVE US THE OPTION!
By talikarni on 5/30/2013 2:33:33 PM , Rating: 2
How hard would it be to give us the option? They have the GUI already with Win7, so give us the choice of which setup we want.
How about a few settings:
Start button on Taskbar: On/Off
Live Tile Start Page: On/Off

They fail to realize just how many people activate Win8 and within a few days to a few weeks take it back and switch back to a Win7 system/OS.




RE: GIVE US THE OPTION!
By ilt24 on 5/30/2013 4:17:31 PM , Rating: 2
You have the option today:

9 Windows Start menus for Windows 8
http://www.infoworld.com/d/microsoft-windows/9-win...


The "Start Menu" Pictured
By Morvannec on 5/30/2013 3:32:17 PM , Rating: 3
Is quite obviously the metro app switcher. Metro's equivalent of the desktop alt-tab. Anyone who has used Windows 8 without hate-tinted glasses would recognise it instantly.

The only difference is that the "start tip" (picture of the start screen) that is there in Windows 8.0 has become the windows icon. I understand that that is what has caused the confusion, but really, if you don't recognise the app switcher you probably shouldn't be making comments about Windows 8 because you've obviously not used it properly.




You know...
By HackSacken on 5/30/2013 4:44:53 PM , Rating: 3
I hope everyone is aware you can just create a toolbar on your start bar pointed to "Program Files" or heck, "C:\." There is you start menu back.

For example: http://i.imgur.com/BtKZXen.png




Progression to 8.2?
By acer905 on 5/30/2013 12:37:06 PM , Rating: 2
So, 8.1 gives you the option of having your background as the background in the Start Screen to give the appearance of them popping up, instead of you just being kicked to a different UI. Seems like a good progression for this would be to have the Tiles in 8.2 *actually* pop up over the desktop or any open app, greying it out slightly for focus, and let users swype back and forth like you currently can. However, clicking/tapping any part aside from a tile could just make them disappear.

Basically, Win8 tried to turn the desktop into an "app" for dealing with old school stuff. You launch it from the Start Screen, and other apps replace it. This way they could refine the system back to the desktop as a primary and stationary thing, with everything -both old and new- floating on top of it. Thoughts?




By RU482 on 5/30/2013 4:49:19 PM , Rating: 2
instead of calling it a start button, call it the windows button, because it is redundant with the windows button on the keyboard or on a tablet.




By masamasa on 5/30/2013 4:53:23 PM , Rating: 2
They are so disconnected from the consumer that they have no concept of what their customers want. Clearly, slapping a tablet o/s on a desktop and expecting users to transition to it is ridiculous. Please, we need more competitors in this space as monopolies such as Microsoft don't benefit anyone.




There is only one way
By ja1410 on 5/31/13, Rating: 0
RE: There is only one way
By Belard on 5/31/2013 10:40:57 AM , Rating: 2
Doing that. I hate the stupid Xbox branding too, that comes with Windows 8. "Xbox games" - but it doesn't actually PLAY xBox360 games what-so-ever. Its a stupid confusing idiotic mess.

I have another solution which I've started... and its free.
LinuxMint. I run it full time on one of my notebooks... Windows7 is MY LAST MICROSOFT OS. LinuxMint kicks Win8 butt! It boots just as fast as Win8 and its a real desktop UI that isn't monkey-butt ugly.


What's the problem
By stevepaige on 5/31/2013 10:53:59 AM , Rating: 2
I received Win 8 and a Logitech touchpad for Christmas, installed both, and played with the new UI for a little bit. I then installed Classic Shell (free) and had it default to the desktop where the Classic Shell start button now peacefully resides.

Since I use a desktop PC with a wireless M&K & Touchpad and lean waaaay back in my chair, there is no benefit in using a touchscreen.

I admit that I have messed with ICON placement in the new UI to have the programs that I use the most right in front of me, but I think that the new UI takes up too much real estate. I don't like having to scroll from side to side to see everything. That is just me tho'.

My biggest complaint is that it seems that the Metro apps take too long to load. I've got a pretty middle-high end machine (quad core, 4G ram, 3.2GHz) with a 1Gbyte DDR5 video card. They rival my Autocad programs with how slow they are.

Since there are free add-ons to correct/fix/customize the issue why not just do that and help anyone that wants to be helped without running off at the keyboard.




working
By christopherjoseph78 on 6/2/2013 11:36:09 PM , Rating: 2

uptil I looked at the receipt four $4739, I accept that my neighbours mother could actualie erning money parttime at there computar.. there friends cousin haz done this 4 only fifteen months and just now took care of the dept on there condo and got a gorgeous Ariel Atom. we looked here, ... www.Rush64.com




Funny!
By Belard on 5/31/13, Rating: 0
"There is a single light of science, and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it everywhere." -- Isaac Asimov














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