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Print 130 comment(s) - last by MindParadox.. on Jun 14 at 9:14 PM

Microsoft has ripped out legacy code that allowed third parties to turn the popular Start Menu back

"It's our way or the highway."

That was seemingly the message delivered by the Windows 8 Release Preview, which is launching today, free for consumers to try.  It's not yet live, but according to a Windows Team blog post, you will soon be able to get it here.

I. Microsoft Outrages Windows Traditionalists

If previous versions ignited controversy that Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) is turning its back on desktop and traditional personal computer users, Windows 8 will likely cause even more hurt feelings.  A key change in the Release Preview has been Microsoft's decision to rip out large chunks of legacy code that allowed third-party app makers to re-enable the beloved "Start Menu" and Start Button in the Consumer Preview release.


Microsoft confidante and Windows Supersite writer Paul Thurrott is also reporting that Microsoft plans not to allow users to directly boot to the desktop.  Instead -- just like anyone else -- they'll be dropped into the rich Metro UI graphical environment.

Further, Microsoft is reportedly going to rip out the current Aero UI desktop found in the Consumer Preview and Release Preview builds, replacing it with a more Metro-Like desktop in the Release to Manufacturer (RTM) build, which will land in a couple months.

Paul Thurrott typically a strong Windows evangelist was surprisingly critical of these changes.  He comments:

Despite my recent attempt to categorize what’s coming in Windows 8 for businesses -- and, seriously, it’s not a bad list -- it’s become increasingly clear to me that Microsoft doesn’t actually expect businesses to upgrade to this new system in any meaningful way. I believe that the software giant is taking a pass on businesses for this release, a calculated risk that enables it to more firmly focus on the consumer market that's on the cusp of slipping through its fingers thanks to Apple and, to a much lesser extent, Android.
...
Microsoft hasn’t made such an obviously consumer-centric version of Windows since Millennium Edition (Windows Me), and the question isn’t whether businesses will ignore this release, as they did Windows Vista. Of course they will. The question is whether Microsoft is (understandably) ignoring businesses with this release or if they’re being openly antagonistic to a market that, thus far, has been responsible for most of the software giant’s successes. Let’s hope it’s just the former.

In other words, one of the foremost Windows world experts thinks that Windows 8 will be a huge failure in terms of business sales, and to add insult to injury has compared it to the universally loathed Windows ME.

Metro UI
Windows traditionalists are not happy with Microsoft decision to push Metro UI on all Windows 8 users. [Image Source: My Microsoft Life]

To be fair, Mr. Thurrott has offered praise for some of the Metro UI features from a consumer perspective.  But his words reflect the sentiments of many in the public -- shock and dismay at Microsoft decision to throw away its proud (if plain) desktop tradition.

II. Improvements and Extras

For those that want to check out the Release Preview build (previously referred to as the Customer Preview build), it features:
  • Improved core apps
  • Adobe Systems Inc. (ADBE) Flash aboard the Internet Explorer 10 browser
  • Bug and security fixes
  • Hardware improvements
  • Improved multi-monitor support
You can pick up a Visual Studio 2012 (aka VS 11) preview build here and the latest Windows 8 driver kit here.

Visual Studio 11
The Metro-friendly Visual Studio 11 (Visual Studio 2012) will launch alongside Windows 8.

Windows 8 will launch in October and come in three different versions.

Sources: Windows SuperSite, The Next Web



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Try it!!
By Barry919 on 5/31/12, Rating: 0
RE: Try it!!
By NellyFromMA on 5/31/12, Rating: 0
RE: Try it!!
By Reclaimer77 on 5/31/2012 1:07:31 PM , Rating: 5
We don't want our desktop to look and behave like a mobile device. There's just no benefit to that at all.

I can't put it more simpler than that.


RE: Try it!!
By geddarkstorm on 5/31/2012 1:10:02 PM , Rating: 3
Absolutely. If I was an IT guy looking at this, I'd be having nightmares.


RE: Try it!!
By Mitch101 on 5/31/2012 2:16:24 PM , Rating: 3
Im an IT guy and after working with it I like it a lot. If you understand what your looking at it makes sense.

Tiles > Icons

Tiles can be various sizes and contain information at a glance.

Icons are limited and old like Windows 3.1 old.

Most Popular or pinned ones to the left. - Just like a bigger more visual start menu.

If you think of the bottom left corner of the Metro UI as start and going outward from there its the same.

Who really uses Start? Start is for rarely used items. Ive been putting things into quick launch (XP) or pinning them to the bottom (Win7). The Metro IU is like pinning the items to the desktop except they can tell you things without having to open them.

When you move out to the desktop the Applications are right there at the bottom.


RE: Try it!!
By MindParadox on 5/31/2012 2:26:46 PM , Rating: 5
I actually use the start menu(or rather, that little text box) in 7 A LOT, cause I don't combine my buttons on the task bar(nor do i pin anything there) but I also don't pin anything to the desktop, since I type so friggin fast that it's a matter of less than a second to hit the start button, type the name of the program i want, and hit enter

so admittedly, while i LOVE my Windows Phone 7 phone, I'm not entirely sure i want that interface to replace the text box i have come to love on my computer

Course, I'll get used to it, and hey, ya never know, i may like it better, but hell, I'm still fighting mouse and keyboard for shooters(Saitek X-45 baby, yeah!)


RE: Try it!!
By Mitch101 on 5/31/2012 2:39:42 PM , Rating: 5
Then you will love Windows 8 because if you start typing it gives you a textbox and menu of what it thinks your looking for.

Pinning is Awesome especially since you can tell pinned applications how many recent documents/programs etc to keep in the list and pin specific documents to the app for opening fast without having to search for them.

On your Windows Phone hold down the Windows Logo and when the voice control comes up say OPEN APPLICATION_NAME. You never have to look at the screen.

Im still on my Nostromo n52. :)


RE: Try it!!
By MindParadox on 5/31/2012 2:53:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Im still on my Nostromo n52. :)


I got the razer one(N52TE or some such) for MMO's cause trying to hack in joystick support for those is insanely difficult :P

But yeah, if i can just type it in, then I'm all happy, and there goes my last bit of resistance to it :)

well, other than the libraries and crap. not sure what they were thinkin with that "we have a perfectly working file browsing system in place, lets add 14 layers of complexity on it and see if we can't REALLY confuse people as to where their stuff is going!" :P but i'm living with it, reducing all my "libraries" down to single folders so they are basically shortcuts cause I actually organize my stuff :)


RE: Try it!!
By Mitch101 on 5/31/2012 3:13:32 PM , Rating: 2
Looks like yours in the newer generation N52 and I like that it glows. Did you have to break it in? The Belkin n52 keys were a bit stiff you had to work with it a while to get it right like the n50 but had less buttons.


RE: Try it!!
By Lord 666 on 5/31/2012 4:52:05 PM , Rating: 4
@Mitch - Had Windows 8 installed and whenever I RDP'd in, it was a horrible experience. Actually demonstrated it 20 students of mine and they all uniformly agreed it was clunky and awkward. Deleted the vm.

While I am open to trying the RC, can't see spending money on RTM.


RE: Try it!!
By Mitch101 on 5/31/2012 5:23:40 PM , Rating: 2
By all means Lord 666 stick with Windows 7 or wait and play around with the final product. Nothing wrong with that. I can only say Vote with your wallet on whether Windows 8 works for you or not. If it doesn't then this will be reflected in sales and Microsoft will most likely add it back.

It is what it is no sense in this site going ape over it Windows 7 is an alternative. Im still not sure how they convince everyone to upgrade from Windows 7. What the killer reason to upgrade to Windows 8 because I can work effectively with either.


RE: Try it!!
By MindParadox on 6/14/2012 9:14:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Did you have to break it in? The Belkin n52 keys were a bit stiff


nahh, pretty much perfect right outta the box


RE: Try it!!
By artemicion on 5/31/2012 4:18:51 PM , Rating: 5
I actually didn't know that you can start typing and it would pull up a textbox on its own. In Windows 7, I've grown accustomed to clicking the start button and typing to get to common apps (like calc).

My "problem" with Windows 8 isn't so much that it's less efficient, it's that I'm too lazy to be bothered to learn a new UI. And maybe I'm just dense, but the metro UI didn't make intuitive sense to me. If I read the entire manual on how to use Windows 8, *maybe* I can be more efficient with it than with Windows 7. But right now, I see no reason to invest that effort. And I suspect a good number of IT folks don't want to invest the effort to train themselves *and* others on how to use metro.


RE: Try it!!
By EricMartello on 5/31/2012 10:49:05 PM , Rating: 1
I don't really see what the big deal is. People are still running XP thinking it's "better" than Vista or Win7. It's not, but in their mind it is.

Windows ME was an attempt to make windows 98 more like XP without actually moving it to the NT kernel that XP was based upon.

Windows 8 has a solid foundation and considering that MS really nailed it with Windows Phone OS I can see Windows 8 doing the same thing. A touch interface should work fine with a mouse pointer since a mouse is essentially like your index finger.

As for the whiners who call themselves "power users" - if you can't adapt to change you're not a power user, you are a relic like a VESA local bus video card.


RE: Try it!!
By NellyFromMA on 5/31/2012 3:05:36 PM , Rating: 1
Im an IT guy, and I can't wait to see. Sorry..?


RE: Try it!!
By imaheadcase on 5/31/2012 10:30:00 PM , Rating: 4
Funny how you are a IT guy and so interested in a OS with just a new UI. You want a new UI, get the Metro theme for Win7.


RE: Try it!!
By kleinma on 5/31/2012 1:21:35 PM , Rating: 2
Touch screen device and mobile device are 2 different things. You seem to have them confused.


RE: Try it!!
By Reclaimer77 on 5/31/12, Rating: 0
RE: Try it!!
By geddarkstorm on 5/31/2012 1:25:30 PM , Rating: 2
When someone says "mobile" in this day and age, I'm pretty sure most anyone understands they are referring to "mobile phones" and tablets. I had no trouble knowing exactly what he meant without even having to think about it.


RE: Try it!!
By Reclaimer77 on 5/31/12, Rating: 0
RE: Try it!!
By Chadder007 on 5/31/2012 2:27:38 PM , Rating: 5
No....BYOD is a security and data retention nightmare.


RE: Try it!!
By Pirks on 5/31/2012 10:09:42 PM , Rating: 2
Tell that to all the BYOD enterprise customers who are leaving RIM in droves :P


RE: Try it!!
By vectorm12 on 5/31/2012 1:03:49 PM , Rating: 3
Cleaner, well that's a matter of taste. Fast, I'd say it's about the same as Windows 7. Metro is most of all kind of like Apples Launchpad(horrible b.t.w.). The difference is that of all the companies Apple lets the user choose not to use it. Win8 boots you back to metro any chance it gets. And once again having to pull my mouse over three displays to reach the righthand corners is probably the worst idea I've seem Microsoft bring out in a long time.


RE: Try it!!
By TakinYourPoints on 5/31/2012 1:22:25 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. I don't know a single OS X user that uses Launchpad, it is terrible, but as you said it is completely optional. Metro is being rammed down our throats, you have to go through it even if you just want to live on the classic desktop.


RE: Try it!!
By geddarkstorm on 5/31/12, Rating: 0
RE: Try it!!
By Trisped on 5/31/2012 5:50:25 PM , Rating: 2
Not sure what you mean. There will be the desktop, just no start menu. You will have to manually exit Metro to get to the desktop. That is unless you are running the ARM version, which has never had a desktop, since the desktop is for x86/x64 apps.


RE: Try it!!
By messele on 6/1/2012 3:15:47 AM , Rating: 2
Not sure what the claims are all about regarding launchpad, for those like myself who have multiple screens and want multiple desktops across those screens it works well. With at most a couple of three and four finger swipes I can get to any application or move any application to any desktop or any screen with no clicking or keyboard shortcuts.

I was horribly confused for all of 5 seconds when booting Lion, I'm a big fan of it ever since.

Not sure about Win8, I've not tried the preview but I will vouch that OSX Lion's UI changes are a step forward, especially when I am trying to get things done in a hurry during my working day.


RE: Try it!!
By geddarkstorm on 5/31/2012 1:09:08 PM , Rating: 2
Did you actually read this article? The desktop is going to be ripped out even more with the next releases. You're absolutely right with the current Consumer Preview, but from the sound of this new built and the next one to come, there will not be a desktop just like before.

I guess we'll have to see, but this is sounding disastrous. I -like- the Windows 8 Consumer Preview because I can completely ignore metro and focus on the desktop. But I don't think I'll grab this release preview since that'll kill my start menu, which I have come to use often. Maybe if someone can find a way to hack around MS's total clearing out of the legacy code...

Seriously, what is MS thinking? Why not give consumers the option?


RE: Try it!!
By Mitch101 on 5/31/2012 2:31:58 PM , Rating: 3
Aero is the style of the desktop the desktop is not going anywhere only the style is changing.

What is Windows Aero?
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/W...

The Desktop will live on it will just have a Metro look and feel instead of Aero interface.

This whole thing is blown way out of proportion to what Microsoft means.


RE: Try it!!
By geddarkstorm on 5/31/2012 3:35:31 PM , Rating: 2
That is definitely reassuring. I guess "rip out" conveys a very different meaning from simply changing the graphics theme.


RE: Try it!!
By Trisped on 5/31/2012 5:44:05 PM , Rating: 3
I use the start button 3-5 times a day at work. Often without looking at it. Microsoft has clearly removed this commonly used feature and not created an equivalent replacement. In the past, when a major interface change was made there was at least one version of Windows which could do both the old way and the new way. This helped smooth the transition as you could flip back to the old system if you were having trouble adapting.

Throw in the fact that you always start in metro, that metro is not a window and must be clicked out of, and you have another reason the OS is not PC friendly. Yes, I have a password to log onto my computer, but should I always have to click out to the desktop before I can start playing Boarderlands 2 or Dungeon Defenders?


RE: Try it!!
By Dingmatt on 6/1/12, Rating: 0
RE: Try it!!
By gslusher on 6/2/2012 2:20:39 AM , Rating: 2
Have you tried it? How do you turn off the computer?


RE: Try it!!
By Labotomizer on 6/2/2012 9:51:34 PM , Rating: 2
The power button? That seems the most obvious way to shut down a PC.


RE: Try it!!
By Makaveli on 6/5/2012 9:10:03 AM , Rating: 2
This had me last night after I loaded Win 8 RP on a spare drive. How the hell do you shutdown the pc?

I had to use the search function to find it!!!! What a f**** joke!

Second how the hell do you close apps?

I had to use the task switcher to close apps or going into the task manager.

I went into the settings menu and was totally stuck in it couldn't get out until I did the above.

The switching between the desktop and metro is highly annoying.

I've played with all 3 release so far and i'm still not impressed.

As for business running this OS haha ya right. I cannot see this running in a corporate environment at all unless you give everyone touch screen monitors like that is gonna happen.

I can get use to the start button not being there but the rest will not work for me in it current form.


Very accurate.
By Jeff7181 on 5/31/2012 12:31:22 PM , Rating: 2
I think Paul hit the nail on the head. Microsoft is passing on business sales with Windows 8.




RE: Very accurate.
By dagamer34 on 5/31/2012 12:44:22 PM , Rating: 4
No business was ever going to upgrade to Windows 8 (regardless of whatever it provided) when they are still rolling out Windows 7 2.5 years after it was released.


RE: Very accurate.
By Reclaimer77 on 5/31/2012 12:39:41 PM , Rating: 3
Windows 8 is going to be a huge fail in the enthusiast market as well, not just business.

If people thought ME was the OS Microsoft just wishes it could forget, just wait until the history books close on Windows 8.

The decision to disallow a traditional desktop is unacceptable to power users, people who use their PC's for work, and the other vast majority of the Windows consumer base. Metro is so utterly flawed for traditional mouse+keyboard desktop use.

Hang onto your copies of Windows 7 folks! We're for a LONG ride if this is the direction Microsoft is taking Windows.


RE: Very accurate.
By Mitch101 on 5/31/12, Rating: -1
RE: Very accurate.
By geddarkstorm on 5/31/2012 1:06:13 PM , Rating: 1
If it's true that MS is going to rip out the Aero UI with the next release, I'm pretty sure what defense we have of the current Consumer Preview will not longer apply. Without some sort of true desktop, there's no way I can use this thing.


RE: Very accurate.
By kleinma on 5/31/2012 1:19:52 PM , Rating: 3
What are you people talking about..... the desktop didn't go anywhere. We are talking about the start menu. You are really that upset that the start menu is gone? Really? Is there some really cool feature of the start menu that you spend your entire day in there or something? The start menu has needed an overhaul for a long time. Vista added indexing and searching of it, which was nice, but it was still just the crappy start menu. Now you have a full screen fully interactive start screen, but you want the crappy old menu back. Just pin your apps to the taskbar like you should already be doing in Windows 7, and you really have little need for a start menu.


RE: Very accurate.
By Reclaimer77 on 5/31/12, Rating: -1
RE: Very accurate.
By Etsp on 5/31/2012 1:25:56 PM , Rating: 3
I'm fairly certain that they are referring to the visual effects of Aero UI, meaning the transparent and rounded borders. Instead it's going to be very rectangular. I don't think they plan to remove windows in the traditional sense or the ability to re-size individual windows, just the visual effects that came from Aero.


RE: Very accurate.
By geddarkstorm on 5/31/2012 1:29:46 PM , Rating: 2
Hopefully you're right and that is the meaning. I could live with that I think, as long as we can still change "themes" or "skins" and such. I personally hate the high color saturated square look of Metro. But as long as there's still a desktop environment, at least it'll be useable. In theory.


RE: Very accurate.
By theapparition on 5/31/2012 2:55:36 PM , Rating: 1
Jumble the tiles up a bit, change them to icons and put it all on a desktop with a messy apartment as your background.

You've just recreated Microsoft Bob.


RE: Very accurate.
By Reclaimer77 on 5/31/12, Rating: -1
RE: Very accurate.
By artemicion on 5/31/2012 1:52:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Further, Microsoft is reportedly going to rip out the current Aero UI desktop found in the Consumer Preview and Release Preview builds, replacing it with a more Metro-Like desktop in the Release to Market (RTM) build, which will land in a couple months.


Admittedly, the article is not ideally worded, but I also read that paragraph to mean that there will be some semblance of a desktop in Windows 8, albeit not with the Aero UI effects. The paragraph says it will be "Metro-Like" as opposed to "Aero UI", but it will still be a "desktop." I agree with Etsp's reading.


RE: Very accurate.
By jnemesh on 5/31/2012 2:44:28 PM , Rating: 1
They are depreciating the desktop environment. Microsoft wants Metro apps for everything. You CAN, in Windows 8, get your desktop, and run desktop apps. This is only for legacy support, so customers don't totally freak out...but make no mistake, Microsoft is moving to a 100% "Metro" platform, with all apps controlled by them, digital "signatures" letting the PC know which apps it can or can not run, and of course, MS taking 20-30% of all profits right off the top.

This is a disastrous course for Microsoft, and it will lead to their marginalization in the business space (where they make most of their money!), while at the same time alienating the consumers who have been loyal to Windows for years!

I have been a Windows user since Version 1.1 RUNTIME! (bundled with Adobe Pagemaker 1.0!). Now, for the first time, I am seriously contemplating abandoning Microsoft completely. There is just too much that is WRONG with Windows 8 and Microsoft's new Apple-mimicking polcies and not enough benefit.

I could get over the loss of the start menu, I could even learn to live with the Fisher Price UI. I WILL NOT live with the draconian restrictions on software and hardware that Microsoft has instituted. I will be moving on.

Nice knowing you Microsoft...you were an important company once...I hope you enjoy being irrelevant in the market from here on out! (you only have your boss, Mr. Ballmer to blame!)


RE: Very accurate.
By Mitch101 on 5/31/2012 1:29:52 PM , Rating: 1
Its removing Aero because it would be a battery hog. Aero is a visual element or style. Microsoft has said its being replaced with something less cluttered. I wouldn't be surprised if they knew this all along and didn't say anything to avoid competition from copying what they plan on doing.

What I love is these other sites jumping to conclusions and making their own screenshots up instead of waiting to see what Microsoft is actually going to deliver or what they mean by this.


RE: Very accurate.
By geddarkstorm on 5/31/2012 1:33:09 PM , Rating: 2
My PC does not run on batteries. Must everything now be bent over backwards to tailor to the mobile world? Is the idea of product segments suddenly forgotten these days?

Besides, anyone could turn off Aero previously if they really cared about battery life.


RE: Very accurate.
By Reclaimer77 on 5/31/12, Rating: -1
RE: Very accurate.
By inighthawki on 5/31/2012 1:57:16 PM , Rating: 2
If they were removing the desktop, why do they have like 100 articles on the windows 8 blog about new DESKTOP FEATURES, one of which explains this exact situation and explicitly clarifies that they are removing aero in favor of a metro THEMED ui.


RE: Very accurate.
By Reclaimer77 on 5/31/2012 10:05:46 PM , Rating: 1
Fuck Metro and it's "themed UI". I don't need the Fisher Price experience on my desktop PC, thank you much.


RE: Very accurate.
By Labotomizer on 6/2/2012 9:57:33 PM , Rating: 2
I think you're dead on, Fisher Price would be way more complicated than you would be capable of handling. Just check out your reading comprehension.


RE: Very accurate.
By Mitch101 on 5/31/2012 1:58:58 PM , Rating: 2
Sometimes I think Im the only person who reads other sites.

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windo...

Microsoft quietly revealed this week that it will kill off the Aero glass interface in Windows 8 and replace it with a flat, Metro-like Explorer that’s more in line with the company’s current design mantra.


RE: Very accurate.
By adiposity on 5/31/2012 2:16:09 PM , Rating: 2
Your problem is trusting the article on DailyTech to be 100% accurate and semantically correct.

The Desktop is not dead. There will still be a desktop. However, it will look a bit different. And it won't be the first thing you see when your computer boots up (instead you'll see the new "start screen" AKA metro interface).


RE: Very accurate.
By GPig on 6/1/2012 8:04:15 AM , Rating: 1
What rubbish!

Download the release, desktop is there. If they planned to kill the desktop they would have just up scaled wp7 (a la ios).


RE: Very accurate.
By Pirks on 6/1/2012 8:56:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What rubbish
Reclaimer is insane, no point to waste time on him


RE: Very accurate.
By Trisped on 5/31/2012 6:13:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Its removing Aero because it would be a battery hog.
Where do you get this?
Aero is a simple visual layer, which is handled by your GPU. It is basically a transparency layer with a gradient, and a basic border. It is not like you are rendering a 3D environment. Even my POC laptop from 4 years ago ran the Aero UI just fine, with 4 hours of battery life (which was really good at the time).


RE: Very accurate.
By Labotomizer on 6/2/2012 9:55:53 PM , Rating: 1
You should take your own advice, or perhaps venture outside of DailyTech from time to time. Aero is the THEME of Windows 7 by default, the glassy and rounded look. They are replacing that THEME with one that looks more in line with the UI design philosophy. The driving reason is to reduce power usage when on the standard desktop.


RE: Very accurate.
By Lerianis on 5/31/2012 1:44:39 PM , Rating: 4
Actually, the Start Menu isn't 'gone', Metro is nothing more than a full-screen Start Menu by another name with additional functionality.


RE: Very accurate.
By inighthawki on 5/31/2012 1:58:32 PM , Rating: 2
I think it's more of a conceptual problem, partly being a different layout and the fact that it takes up the whole screen. I think I'll get used to it myself, but some people are pretty hard pressed in their ways, unable to adapt.


RE: Very accurate.
By Trisped on 5/31/2012 6:26:29 PM , Rating: 3
Does it pop-up when you press the windows key on your keyboard?
Can you still see programs on your desktop while it is up (like if you are following instructions on a web page)?
Does it (by default) provide a 1-2 click interface to the control panel?
Does it (by default) provide a 1 step interface to the command window?
Does it provide a complete list of all your installed/registered apps with 1 click? Can you launch any installed app from it?
Can you shut down the computer with 1 click (Stand By and Hibernate do not count, as these are not appropriate for a desktop which should do this automatically after a period of time).
Can you safely restart the computer with two clicks?
Is there an icon in the task bar which you can click to open the menu with your mouse (in case you do not want to move your hand on the keyboard or you are in a Point/Click mood)?

Original I was with you. I thought the Start Menu had been replaced with the Start Screen. Annoying, but manageable. From all the reports I have heard (not having spent time to install it, though I will install this preview tonight), the Start Screen has some similar features, but is lacking the guarantees normally associated with the Start Menu which I regularly use at work, at home, and as a freelance repair tech.

Of course I do not think I will replace my Windows 7 with 8 unless it has XP Mode support.


RE: Very accurate.
By Labotomizer on 6/2/2012 10:02:17 PM , Rating: 2
Does it pop up when you press the Windows Key? Yes, it does. That's actually the ideal way to access it and the reason they removed the soft button.
Can you see programs? Yes, at least with multiple monitors (which is awesome on 8 btw)
Does it provide 1-2 click interface to control panel? Yes, button right corner (from anywhere), settings button, change PC settings.
It does provide a complete list of installed programs, on the start screen, by default. And you can launch any app.
The physical power button? Or two clicks. Either is good for shutting down, power button is fastest.
Same as power down for restart
Move to the bottom left. It's in the same "place".


RE: Very accurate.
By 91TTZ on 5/31/2012 2:07:38 PM , Rating: 2
I want the Start menu. It's not that I spend all day in it, it's just an effective way to select through a list of programs.

I feel that Microsoft wanted to be different. Not better, just different.

Change in itself is not necessarily good. Change can be good or bad. Unless you know what you're doing, making random changes for the sake of change can really derail a product.


RE: Very accurate.
By Mitch101 on 5/31/2012 2:22:38 PM , Rating: 2
If your still using Start you have missed Windows XP quick launch and Windows 7 Pinned items because start is pretty much where all the programs you rarely ever use should live. The only time I ever click on start is to get to control panel.


RE: Very accurate.
By MrBungle123 on 6/1/2012 3:25:28 AM , Rating: 2
Congratulations, we're all very proud of you, now realize there is more than 1 way to use a computer. There is no "correct" way per-se. Finding all kinds of ways to not use your start menu does not make you a "better" computer user than the next guy, its just YOUR way of doing things.

Maybe someone likes to navigate through their directory structure with explorer and dig their way through 50 folders to launch programs, or perhaps there are people that prefer to use the command line. Both are valid, not the fastest, but valid none the less.

Somewhere between the people that spam their desktop with 300 icons and the people that navigate windows with the command line are the people prefer the start menu. They have found that that way works for them and if Microsoft wants to be the go to OS for everyone they should be catering to their current user base by allowing them to use their computers the way they always have even after an OS upgrade... yes make the new way available, but allow those who desire to do so to stick with the old system, its not like the extra couple hundred megabytes of hard drive space (or whatever it is) to have a functional start menu is going to be noticed by anyone. This tactic of railroading everyone (unnecessarily) into a new interface design and throwing years or decades of muscle memory out the window is going to blow up in Microsoft's face.


RE: Very accurate.
By Trisped on 5/31/2012 5:57:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I do have suspicions that voice commands will play a role like the Windows Phone.
Right, so I am going to talk to my computer and hope the computer in the next cubical does not over hear me?
And what about all those library computers, and computers in common rooms of the house? Do you think everyone wants to know you just opened your Facebook app or are checking your Twitter?
Voice commands should be an additional feature on a PC/Tablet/Phone, not a primary/required form of input.


RE: Very accurate.
By TakinYourPoints on 5/31/2012 1:18:52 PM , Rating: 2
Paul is right, and it is insanity given that enterprise is where Microsoft makes the bulk of its profit. Hell, Office makes more money for Microsoft than Windows does. Microsoft certainly won't be making it from enterprise sales of Windows 8.


RE: Very accurate.
By Targon on 5/31/2012 3:05:13 PM , Rating: 2
I may have missed something, but if the PREVIEW has many of these features removed, that may or may not mean the RELEASE version will also have them removed. This may be a matter of semantics, but the idea of a preview ONLY showing the new stuff, and leaving out the legacy support many people want shouldn't really surprise ANYONE.

Think about that for a moment, preview indicates people want to see what is new about the new product. If you want legacy stuff, then why are you looking at a preview of the NEW version? If these features have been fully removed from the RTM versions, then I can accept that, and agree that business users will be passing on Windows 8. If on the other hand, these features are only missing from the preview, then only time will tell if businesses can or will accept Windows 8.


By Arsynic on 5/31/2012 1:26:39 PM , Rating: 3
Microsoft is avoiding the mistake RIM made by listening to this very vocal and annoying minority. They'll fall in line soon enough. Metro is a welcomed change. I loved it since the Zune.




By 91TTZ on 5/31/2012 2:16:03 PM , Rating: 2
Was that a subtle joke?

Metro is a welcomed change. You loved it since the Zune. RIP Zune 2006-2011.


By Arsynic on 5/31/2012 2:55:36 PM , Rating: 2
So you're saying that Zune failed due to the interface?


By 91TTZ on 6/1/2012 11:13:52 AM , Rating: 2
I'm saying it failed for a bunch of reasons. But if there were elements about it that were so great, it would have probably succeeded.


By Mitch101 on 5/31/2012 2:46:44 PM , Rating: 1
Monty Python "Im not dead yet"

My Zune 30 lives on in my Ford Fusion. When I start my car in the morning it Wireless syncs with the items I have queued on my PC for it. Might also sync when I pull up in the driveway. I haven't taken it out of my Ford Fusion since I put it in there and Ford Sync allows me to voice and steering wheel control it giving it more functionality to live on.


By Targon on 5/31/2012 4:23:14 PM , Rating: 2
There are two ways of looking at Metro, and you NEED to keep them separated. The first is in the ulta-mobile space, phones and tablets. For those, then Metro would be a good thing, and makes a lot of sense. On the desktop with a keyboard and mouse, I am not so sure that having the starting point for the OS being filled up with crap is a positive.

For those who prefer a "desktop" by whatever name that is CLEAN, you only put the things you use CONTINUALLY up there, and then you go to a launcher(start button/all programs) for the rest. I don't want things to be cluttered for my "starting point". You can see the same issue with web portals, where having a lot of stuff is not the problem, but having it feeling cluttered IS a negative.

I agree that changing, and looking for better ways of doing things is a big positive, but what works best for a touch screen is NOT automatically the best way to use a desktop or even a laptop environment.

And, your support of Metro, from the perspective of the Zune...ultra-portable device vs. desktop/laptop...it may be a step in the wrong direction for desktop users.


By GPig on 5/31/2012 12:57:50 PM , Rating: 2
Restricting which APIs exactly?

I'm a C# developer and all I see is opportunities to monetize some of the small in house apps I have developed whilst contracting for clients. I am anything but pissed off!

The start menu sucks - almost everyone I work with has now moved on to pinned apps and jump lists in Windows 7 (barring the odd dinosaur). The start menu is really only useful for searching for apps you seldom use - Windows 8 does that better.

Just my opinion :)


By jnemesh on 5/31/2012 2:33:38 PM , Rating: 2
The ones that first come to mind are the restrictions for web browsers. Also I have seen other comments from developers complaining about specific calls to query the number of cores in the CPU. I am not a dev, so a lot is over my head, but there are a LOT of angry devs posting on various boards about how restrictive Microsoft's policies are, as well as complaints about the certification process for "Metro" apps.

Regardless about how you personally feel about the start menu, a LOT of people are upset about it's demise. Also, I use multiple monitors, and I don't really care for the idea of one full monitor being dedicated to "Metro" apps. I am moving to Linux...who's with me?


By geddarkstorm on 5/31/2012 3:38:29 PM , Rating: 2
Having to leave the desktop environment completely to search for an app is an improvement over searching in the small footprint start menu screen?


By GPig on 6/1/2012 2:20:56 AM , Rating: 2
Well yes, the start menu search is way too small. And why would you search in one way for an application and another for files? It's inconsistent and makes no sense when you think about it.


By MrBungle123 on 6/1/2012 3:30:48 AM , Rating: 2
umm... maybe because you want to launch the .exe and not see the 250 .dll files that make it work... or maybe you want just open the program and not preload the data from the file you generated yesterday... I don't know maybe I'm just weird.


Works for me
By Mitch101 on 5/31/2012 12:55:22 PM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 is growing on me but if you don't like it stick with Windows 7.

The only difference is I use the keyboard more than the mouse with Windows 8. Just start typing what you want and its right there. I haven't tried voice commands but Im betting you will be able to say the name of the application and it will load just like the Windows Phone does. Windows 8 interface doesn't bother me but I dont think Microsoft should rip out start for those who prefer it over metro. Nothing wrong with two gui styles. Cough cough KDE, Gnome anyone?




RE: Works for me
By mevans336 on 5/31/2012 1:27:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I haven't tried voice commands but Im betting you will be able to say the name of the application and it will load just like the Windows Phone does.


That sounds peachy, a world full of people controlling their computers and smartphones by voice. I can't wait!


RE: Works for me
By spread on 5/31/2012 3:31:41 PM , Rating: 3
I like Windows 8 and would love to have it on a tablet. For the Desktop I am going to reinstall Windows 7.

I'm using the Consumer Preview and am not impressed. It's a pain to use with a mouse and keyboard. And i've been using it for a month now. It just doesn't make sense. You'll see what I mean.

Hint: Menus are moved around, buried or removed for no reason. What used to be a quick point and click now takes 3 times as long because you have to use the keyboard to search THEN point and click.

Stupid. Inefficient.


RE: Works for me
By Mitch101 on 5/31/2012 5:31:15 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe this is why Microsoft has a consumer preview months before its release to get consumer feedback.

Who knows maybe you'll be able to use your Windows 8 tablet to control the interface of your Windows 8 desktop. Ive seen video of someone using kinect but I think touch is needed. Voice is an option as well unless im up late at night and don't want the wife to hear what I'm looking at. ;)

All I know is its silly to get this upset as Windows 7 is still going to be around. If enough people avoid Windows 8 metro then Microsoft will make it right just like they fixed the headaches of Vista. Customer feedback goes a long way.


Every other version
By TakinYourPoints on 5/31/2012 1:24:19 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft's every-other-version problem. Whatever comes after Windows 8 will be great.




RE: Every other version
By geddarkstorm on 5/31/2012 1:30:17 PM , Rating: 2
Surprisingly like Star Trek movies!


RE: Every other version
By Reclaimer77 on 5/31/2012 1:41:32 PM , Rating: 1
Well Search For Spock was pretty good, it was just obviously overshadowed by Khan. But then again, what movie isn't!

ugh damn you, making me geek out over here :P


RE: Every other version
By deathwombat on 5/31/2012 4:23:23 PM , Rating: 2
No. Star Trek III was never a good movie. Even if you've never seen Star Trek II, even if you've only seen the odd numbered Trek movies, even if you've never seen a good movie in your life, Star Trek III was never a good movie. Speaking as a Trekker, I don't set the bar very high for Star Trek movies, but even I cringe at the acting, the dialog, and pretty much every scene with Christopher Lloyd in it.


RE: Every other version
By superstition on 5/31/12, Rating: 0
RE: Every other version
By superstition on 6/1/2012 6:12:05 PM , Rating: 2
Star Trek III is a Star Trek film, which is more than can be said for the Abrams "reboot". And, it's better than VI.


The real problem
By yllusion on 5/31/2012 1:40:22 PM , Rating: 4
In my opinion, the real problem is that companies such as Microsoft have to find reasons for launching new products, because that is how they make money. Therefore they push boundaries to create new necessities for potential customers.

But it seems that the "post-XP" Microsoft only cares about basic users who want to navigate, check facebook, play music and watch and make videos. Only superfluous tasks.

Advanced users and technical users such as me, people that are normally more practical, are well served by the old desktop style that started with Win 95. We want an OS to support the applications that we need. That is it. We want to access our files and take care of them ourselves. No fancy UI, no automatic categories, no ridiculously complex configuration like the Control Panel in Win7. If you pay attention, already with Win7 we have to do more clicks to do the same things we did with WinXP. That is horrible. Windows Vista and 7 are full of annoying details that only get in our way. The os is not as transparent as the XP/2000.

And now, Win8 seems to be going even further into this philosophy. The world is not going to be only mobile. Desktops are necessary, we work on them. What Microsoft is doing is only giving us more reasons to switch once and for all to Linux.

Microsoft should have two types of OS, one for the masses, all "colorful", and one for technical people, all "grey". For hardcore desktops users; an operating system as transparent as possible: uncomplicated, direct interface, proper file management (we see files as files, not as music, video, etc.), top driver management and system capabilities to support third party applications. That is all. The OS being like a box, a good box to keep my toys running perfectly in it. We don't want the OS to be the toy.

That is how I see it. These developers are not working on top of reality, they are working on top of fashion.




RE: The real problem
By 91TTZ on 5/31/2012 3:02:13 PM , Rating: 2
I completely agree with you.

The problem with fashion is that it's run by designers, not customers. Designers often get bored with the status quo and try to do something different, when in reality the market is demanding something else entirely.

Remember the Pontiac Aztek? It was an auto designer's dream. It was a radical departure from the status quo and gave designers the opportunity to incorporate elements which they found "progressive". It was bold design and styling change that sent waves across the auto-design world. Designers at other car companies loved the idea. Other car companies quickly began incorporating similar design elements in their own vehicles. Everyone started going with that ugly angular design with exaggerated features that were supposed to make it more practical.

What they ended up with was The Homer. The problem is that customers hated it. It wasn't what they wanted, and in a market where the customer dictates design based on their buying preferences, it was an absolute failure. It won awards for being one of the worst inventions ever, one of the ugliest cars of all time, etc.

Now you have Microsoft throwing this crap at us.


Too busy
By 3minence on 5/31/2012 2:14:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
they'll be dropped into the rich Metro UI graphical environment.

Am I the only one who likes a clean desktop? My desktop is very clean with my primary apps pinned to the taskbar and the rarely used apps hidden in the start menu. The only desktop icon is the Recycle Bin. I have a nice wallpaper image for my desktop.

I know some people, especially programmers, love to cover their desktop with shortcuts, but I'm not one of them. Aero does not distract me, it adds to the effect. For this reason I really don't want to use Metro. I like to keep my workspace clean.

Not that you can see much of it, but can you even change the Metro wallpaper to a user provided image? I used the consumer preview and it did not appear to allow it.




RE: Too busy
By Trisped on 5/31/2012 6:32:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
but can you even change the Metro wallpaper to a user provided image?
You should be able to, you are suppose to be able to fully customize the Start Screen, and your customization is stored in the cloud, so it is usable on any PC.
It sounds nice, but I work on PCs which do not have internet access. I also do not want to use my Live ID any more then necessary (it is a pain always having to type the full thing every time).


RE: Too busy
By Trisped on 5/31/2012 6:32:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
but can you even change the Metro wallpaper to a user provided image?
You should be able to, you are suppose to be able to fully customize the Start Screen, and your customization is stored in the cloud, so it is usable on any PC.
It sounds nice, but I work on PCs which do not have internet access. I also do not want to use my Live ID any more then necessary (it is a pain always having to type the full thing every time).


Crystal ball
By haukionkannel on 5/31/2012 4:24:07 PM , Rating: 2
When I look my crystall ball I see that win8 will fail!
Mr. Smith in the big corporate office says:"Hey! A new UI again! Are you moron? The win 7 was so hard to learn to use! I have printed guide under my mouse map and still cant find anything in win7. Why did't we stay in win XP?"
The corporate computer wizard think a while... Win8 is just improved win7 with some minor imporvents and it would cost a guite a lot to teach all those employes to use win8. "Ok, he says. It is not a worth of it" And he gives up

When I look my crystall ball I see that win9 will be huge succes!
Mr. Smith in the big corporate office has a mobile phone with Metro UI. Because it was so nice he desided to buy his first pad with Metro UI ofcource and in office beside coffe machine he talks to computer guru: "This Metro UI is so nice. Easy to use and my phone and pad both works the same way! Neet! I am just wondering why desktops can not be the same?" The computer guru says:"Uh, actually there has been desktop windows with Metro UI something like three years allready." Mr. Smith:" What? Why we don't have it allready? Are you a moron? I wan it now!"
The corporate computer wizard think a while... Win9 has some minor improvements over win8, it has the new more secure disk operating system and some minor tweaks. The folks allready know how to use it so no need for extra training and Office programs works just like they do in win7... "Ok, he says. We will have win 9 with Metro UI as soos as possible" Mr. Smith: "Hurry up, you can drink that coffee later!"

Summasummarum
Win 8 will fail because Metro UI
Win 9 will be huge succes because of Metro UI
Ain't life strange. And that was the the end of this bedtime story! ;-)




RE: Crystal ball
By Targon on 5/31/2012 4:29:15 PM , Rating: 2
You missed the fact that the primary UI for Windows 7, which is almost identical to Vista, is also so similar to the standard Windows XP start menu that it would be difficult to claim it is all that different. Oh, it doesn't say "start" on the screen, yet it is in the same place and does the same thing may be difficult for SOME people, but most people figured it out without help.

Remember, the only people having problems with Aero(Windows Vista/Windows 7) are those who had Windows XP and used the old crap theme from Windows 2000/Win95/98/ME). Control panel options moving around is also SIMPLE for anyone who SHOULD be in there on a regular basis anyway.

The other reason some people have problems is because XP was around from 2001 through the end of 2006. People got used to where EVERYTHING was, so they got locked in. Mac users are in even worse shape, to the point they probably couldn't handle ANY change at this point. Teach people to expect change, and they may actually use their brains and try to figure things out for themselves.


RE: Crystal ball
By haukionkannel on 5/31/2012 6:01:31 PM , Rating: 2
Well, I have been trying to teach computer usage to totally computer illiterate persons and oh boy how "hard" it was to learn to use windows 7 after win XP... Sounds impossible I know, but to some people any change is real game stopper.
So the above "bedtime story" was only marginally sarcastic ;-)

So I did't miss the point that UI for win 7 and XP are practically identical. After dealing with people like I described it is not hard to see why Linux (and all its variations) jave not become more popular. Some people just cant handle even marginally different UI very well.

But you are right it should not have been a problem...


Garbage
By zlandar on 5/31/2012 1:09:25 PM , Rating: 2
No way I am upgrading to this Metro UI crap.




RE: Garbage
By BubbaJoe TBoneMalone on 5/31/2012 2:30:58 PM , Rating: 3
Same here. I love my Aero GUI on my desktop! Windows 7 for life!


No start menu, no money will be given....
By darkhawk1980 on 5/31/2012 12:39:22 PM , Rating: 2
Without a start menu, this is just a big ass windows phone. Microsoft better learn quick. Time is running out.




By acer905 on 5/31/2012 1:08:21 PM , Rating: 2
... The start screen is the start menu. There are exactly (2) differences between the old menu and the new screen.

(1) UI swap from simple text links on a pop up menu to live shortcuts on a pop up screen

(2) Increased functionality and customization from being allowed to rearrange and remove any and all pinned apps to the exact order you want.

People say that it doesn't work for a mouse/keybaord set up. Have they really thought about the implications of the customization? Set up all your most used apps in the order of importance from the lower left corner of the screen. With this setup, you go into the menu using the hot spot, and the first apps you get to are the most important. This is almost exactly the same as customizing Win7's pinned area.

However, with this you can navigate easier, and have more things pinned. Is your app just off the screen to the right? Then just move your mouse to the right and click it. You don't have to do anything, it auto scrolls.

Microsoft learned the lesson a few years ago. No matter what you do, people complain. So, they make the changes and stick to them. Remember Office 2007? People hated the ribbon. What happened to Office 2010? They enhanced the ribbon, not removed it.


People will get used to it
By tayb on 5/31/2012 1:13:34 PM , Rating: 2
I've previously been very negative toward Windows 8 and even went so far as to utilize the old start menu hack that is referenced at the top of this article. The more I use it the more familiar with it I get. To me it's very similar to the switch from Office 2003 to Office 2007. People bitches and moaned at first but eventually they got used to it and grew to like it, or they still sit there with Office 2003.

I don't see many businesses upgrading to Windows 8 but I said the same things about Windows Vista and Windows 7. Businesses just aren't making those kind of purchases right now. These companies will upgrade eventually because there really aren't any alternatives.

Windows 8 will not be the epic flop everyone is predicting it to be. For every 1 enthusiast fanboy there are thousands and thousands of regular consumers who could care less and will probably actually enjoy Metro. Me, personally, I will be dual booting but I suspect my personal machine will spend more time in Windows 8 while my work machine will probably remain Windows 7. I'm looking forward to Windows RT on a tablet. I'll replace my iPad 2 in a heart beat.




RE: People will get used to it
By Trisped on 5/31/2012 6:35:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
For every 1 enthusiast fanboy there are thousands and thousands of regular consumers who...
will not buy it because all their tech friends said it sucks and to wait for the next one (Microsoft usually botches the first release anyways).
Of course it will be a great OS for tablets and All-In-One computers.


Get Linux and be done with this garbage
By apexwm on 5/31/12, Rating: 0
RE: Get Linux and be done with this garbage
By MindParadox on 5/31/2012 2:48:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
GNU/Linux allows complete freedom and allows the user to decide how to use the PC, whether it's a desktop, laptop, tablet, etc.


However, in nearly every case, it requires a massively more steep learning curve to use, even for the most simple of operations, unless the ONLY thing you want to do is use the basic browser that comes with(if one eve does) the flavor(of the month) that you are using

honestly, I would absolutely love it if linux became a more popular OS than it is, however, currently the linux market is so fragmented what with there being something like 40+ different flavors of it(currently being worked on, more than 200 if you could obsolete flavors like Mandrake) all with different versions of packaging and update systems, UI's programs, hell, there are even multiple office type programs that in some cases aren't compatible with each other, let alone MS office.

Ubuntu had a shot at consolidating and standardizing the linux market for a while, but now theres some ludicrous number of ubuntu distros out there that makes everything confusing as hell

even android is fragmented all over the place, and that's all one flavor, just different versions!

add in the fact that with most linux distros, it's often easier to do things via command line than with the UI, what with dependencies and such increasing in complexity when using the X windowing system, and you are basically wanting everyone to go back and learn DOS, except with like 40 billion more commands and switches\line arguments\whatever.

not gonna happen, sad to say, people like being able to stay ignorant and yet still "surf the interwebz for LOLcatz!"


By Trisped on 5/31/2012 6:41:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
However, in nearly every case, it requires a massively more steep learning curve to use, even for the most simple of operations, unless the ONLY thing you want to do is use the basic browser that comes with(if one eve does) the flavor(of the month) that you are using
Well said. I would vote you up, but I already posted a lot.


Microsoft is becoming increasingly anti-user
By GatoRat on 5/31/2012 11:31:08 PM , Rating: 2
The trend of Microsoft's products has been to ignore objective usability research in favor of theories, and then manipulating their tests to support those theories. In many cases, it wouldn't be so bad if they allowed alternatives, but they don't. For example, it would have been rather easy to add a traditional menu to Word, but they refused. IE9 cannot be customized in any meaningful way. Now Visual Studio 2012 is a UI nightmare.

I've dealt with many internal Microsoft managers and their contempt for their customers is unbelievable.




By TakinYourPoints on 5/31/2012 11:44:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I've dealt with many internal Microsoft managers and their contempt for their customers is unbelievable.


It is ridiculous. Companies like Valve and Apple put user experience first, it isn't rocket science, and it is why they have superior products and services.


Close apps?
By Maiyr on 6/3/2012 9:21:18 AM , Rating: 2
Other than obviously going into Task Manager to do it how in the world do you close an App. For instance Task Manager shows I have Mail and Weather running. How do I close those two? Either Metro is to advanced for me or it simply is not intuitive enough for us common folk.

My problem is that I don't like clutter (anything) on my desktop. Only thing on my desktop is the Start bar/button and the wallpaper background. I like everything organized under the Start button so I use the Start button a lot. A shame to see this going a way and a real shame they removed the code that allowed 3rd parties to add it back. I was going to get Win8 and one of those 3rd party apps. Now I don't know.

Maiyr




RE: Close apps?
By vXv on 6/3/2012 5:37:43 PM , Rating: 2
There is a righclick->close option in the left sidebar thing.


Start Menu
By themaster08 on 5/31/2012 1:01:14 PM , Rating: 3
From my personal experience, a lot of casual users, as well as people that use Windows at work, rarely use the Start menu. Most of the time users select their most used applications pinned to the taskbar ot desktop shortcuts. I find a lot of people don't even realise that they can access applications beyond those on their desktop/taskbar.

Getting used to accessing programs in Windows 8 really won't be much of a learning curve. It's simply a list of programs. Pinned shortcuts will appear on the start screen, allowing users easy access to their most commonly used programs, taking the place of both the taskbar and desktop shortcuts.

I personally feel it is going to be confusing for users when it comes to legacy applications that require the use of the traditional desktop. Switching to and from it is cumbersome, and it's only going to confuse people.




Dead
By p05esto on 6/1/2012 12:37:28 AM , Rating: 3
Windows 8 is dead in the water. If MS thought Vista got backlash, just WAIT until they hear about Win8... every tech person I know is livid at how horrible Win8 is to use. Only tards would like the interface and way everything works, any real computer user will throw it out the window. And lets face it, the hard core users influence the legions of average users that we support and recommend to. By screwing the hard core users you in turn screw your entire user base.




Pfft...
By dagamer34 on 5/31/2012 12:43:27 PM , Rating: 2
You can compare to Windows ME, Windows Vista, Microsoft Bob, etc... most average people don't care as long as a) their computer isn't slow and b) they can get some work done.

No one is saying Windows 8 has horrendous performance, which is why I find a lot of these comparisons silly.




What about Bob
By pithhelmet on 5/31/2012 1:04:03 PM , Rating: 2
Windows ME.... NOPE.... more like Windows BOB.

ugh - another microsoft Fail.




Other OS's....
By oomjcv on 5/31/2012 1:05:08 PM , Rating: 2
Would be nice if this whole Win8-thing opens up the door for some real competitors, better competition could be a nice result for consumers




Rats...
By borismkv on 5/31/2012 1:43:28 PM , Rating: 2
I'm probably going to get a Windows 8 Tablet, but Windows 8 isn't going to touch my desktops if they're going to force me to use Metro like that. I haven't got a clue about what they're thinking with this. They're following Apple's track and completely ignoring the enterprise IT side of things with this version of Windows. I mean, the ARM version won't even let you join to a Domain, which is where Windows really gets its power in the Enterprise world. What's next? Ditching Active Directory (oh wait...that probably is next. Here comes Microsoft's Cloud Monster).




I'll just skip this one too ...
By bobolino59 on 5/31/2012 1:56:58 PM , Rating: 2
It was the same song and dance when Vista came out. Microsoft changed a bunch of stuff and people didn't like it and it didn't sell.

I went from XP to Windows 7 and I'll go from Windows 7 to Windows whatever when they give me a version like the one in my mind :P

PS. I still go with the windows 95 UI (grey start bar, black desktop bg)and loving it ever since, I'm 23, not a dinausor just a windows 95 kid.




Intel-like strategy
By HoosierEngineer5 on 5/31/2012 2:17:20 PM , Rating: 2
...but instead of tick-tock, it's tick-flop?




Coincidence?
By fishman on 5/31/2012 2:23:14 PM , Rating: 2
One hundred years ago, the Titanic sank. This year Microsoft will release Windows 8. Coincidence? I think not.




GUI
By Shinobisan on 5/31/2012 3:23:59 PM , Rating: 2
Up until Win8 we have seen an evolution in GUI, which takes advantage of greater and greater compute power within our machines.

Now they want to scrap all that, and force us to use a GUI that was designed to be minimalistic for use in phones.

phones.

I have an idea ... lets mount a huge rotary dial on my PC.. and use that as an interface instead of a keyboard... because keyboards are so last century. We must make everything simple and dull.

What if I want an intense GUI? My PC would be able to throw up a 3D desktop that I can "fly" through to select programs and files. But... no... I get little solid color boxes.

This isn't innovation. It's boring.




Pass
By RaistlinZ on 5/31/2012 4:02:31 PM , Rating: 2
Ugly UI is ugly.




Dipsh1ts
By Motoman on 5/31/2012 4:07:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A key change in the Release Preview has been Microsoft's decision to rip out large chunks of legacy code that allowed third-party app makers to re-enable the beloved "Start Menu" and Start Button in the Consumer Preview release.


Ummm...no need to romanticize things with words like "beloved" - the start menu is wildly popular because it's far and away the best possible way to organize installed programs. It's functionality cannot be improved upon.

quote:
Instead -- just like anyone else -- they'll be dropped into the rich Metro UI graphical environment.


Rich?! It's piss-poor. It's the worst possible way to organized installed programs on a computer, of which you typically have dozens if not hundreds. There's nothing rich about it. On a phone or tablet, fine...but a real computer is a totally different matter.

It's just another example of MS trying to cater to the Fisher-Price crowd, like they did with the ribbon ("let's make the toolbar really big, and make all the buttons really big, so that only 1/3 as much functionality can be shown...but with bigger buttons!").

I'm sorry...but if you're so f%cking stupid as to think this is a good idea, you're too f%cking stupid to use a computer. And for the love of Dog, please don't procreate. We have enough retards in the world as it is.




By darkpuppet on 6/1/2012 8:39:08 AM , Rating: 2
I don't honestly think that this is completely shunning business users IMO.

Every client site I work at has a fixed set of tools, a locked down desktop, sanctioned software.

Now, you can put all of the business apps on the desktop, their tiles displaying important information without having to load an app for it... all tools easily and conspicuously available on the desktop from the get-go.

I can see how windows 8 would be a boon to many businesses, especially in allowing unified presentation between the desktop and mobile devices.

I honestly think that windows 8 is the first truly innovative UI to come out since Xerox introduced the windowed GUI.




I rather other things
By vol7ron on 6/3/2012 11:19:26 PM , Rating: 2
Very interesting. I'm curious how this is going to work for me. I use my desktop for a lot of temp tasks and works in progress because they're easily accessible and hard to forget if its right in front of your face.

I get tired of things that try to guess what I'm searching for. I know where things are and what I'm looking for. I rather them offer a regex search engine, or a grep-like search capability, rather than them trying to assume they know what I might be looking for.




Flash?
By wind79 on 6/5/2012 9:13:36 PM , Rating: 2
Isn't the direction to drop support for Flash and move on to HTML5?




By anartik on 6/7/2012 3:45:16 PM , Rating: 2
I started very close to the beginning with DOS 2, very quickly 3 and so on up to 3.1, NT, 95 98, XP and just recently Win 7. Skipped were Win 3.0, ME, Vista and from what I have seen Win 8. I currently work for one of the words largest engineering companies as a Unix programmer and still on XP 64 for desktops. Last place I worked is still using XP 32. You would think Microsoft would get a clue with the failure of Vista and low adoption rates for 7 but then again there's good reason that Neanderthal Ballmer is #1 on the Forbes list of CEO's that need to be fired. Personally I finally came to like 7 over XP (was eventually forced to for the sake of direct X) and businesses including mine are finally coming around to adopting 7 (or rather forced to). I will be first to say I'm probably not going to give up a traditional desktop, mouse or KB in this lifetime for everyday use (not even that fond of my 17" laptop). Worst case would be Linux and Sheeple OSX would be over my dead body. What's an even further insult is that MS is ripping out support for anything but Metro in Visual Studio Express which will really affect aspiring programmers that can't afford to pay for Visual Studio. Who knows maybe all this stupidity is good and it will finally be the nail in the coffin for Ballmer when MS stock goes even lower than its decade long slump and the stockholders eviscerate him. If 8 really has anything worthwhile to offer under the hood keep it configurable so I don't have to use the fluffy, bubblegum, touch me please, my first computer sort of pad, phone interface on my desktop and I might try using it. It was very telling when Steve Wozniak said he loved Metro on Win Phone better than iOS. If I want to touch something it will be a phone or pad, when convenient, and I won't be buying a touch screen monitor. There's just way too much emphasis these days on phones and pads which are convenient but dumbed down devices for the masses that don't do much more than text, tweet about their meaningless lives, surf porn or follow fellow lemmings on facebook.




"The whole principle [of censorship] is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak." -- Robert Heinlein














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