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Windows 8's Automatic Update will now always give you time to save and won't interrupt your gaming/movies

It's 3 a.m.; do you know what your PC is doing?  Well, if it's a Windows 7 machine, it may be in the process of automatically restarting.  Microsoft pushes out security updates the second Tuesday of each month, but other critical updates can land at off times.  For those who forgot to save their work the evening before, they are often in for the rude surprise.

I. Windows Update Automatic Mode -- Boon to Security, Bane to an Unlucky Few

In the latest Building Windows blog, Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) engineer Farzana Rahman, writing with Windows Division President Steven Sinofsky, explains how Microsoft hopes to eliminate this problem in the upcoming Windows 8 release.

Automatic updates are a very important thing as they allow Microsoft to deliver important trusted content like security patches that a user might never go out and install on their own.  With over a billion Windows PCs in the wild, Microsoft is under an immense amount of security risk, risk that is mitigated by the Automatic Update program.

Ms. Rahman shares 89.3 percent of Windows users opt to use automatic update.  She comments, "That’s 90% of the total user base telling us to automatically install updates without showing any notifications, or asking for confirmation."

That might not be entirely accurate -- a lot of users simply don't understand what exactly auto update is and what the ramifications of turning it on and off are.  But the important message is that a lot of people have Automatic Update turned on -- whether or not they know it.  

The benefit is seen in Microsoft's metrics for one important update, which showed -- despite internet connection variability -- 85 percent of users downloading and installing the update within three days.  A three-day turnaround means that Microsoft can quickly target malware threats and be guaranteed that its actions will take effect across a large amount of its installs.

Install v. days for critical patch
Install rate v. days for a critical patch. [Image Source: Microsoft]

Interestingly, Microsoft indicates that while 31 percent of updates in computers with Windows Automatic Update turned on are installed interactively, the majority of users instead rely on shutdowns.  

Microsoft says the "best case" scenario occurs in the 39 percent of updates that install alongside user shutdowns. Microsoft has tried to squeeze its updates in this Windows. Ms. Rahman writes, "This is the least disruptive experience for users, and so we do want to “hitch a ride” whenever we can on user-initiated shutdowns instead of inconveniencing users with a separate restart."

II. Toning Down the Auto Reboots

However, 30 percent find their computers being restarted by Windows Update.  This is where most the "problem updates" in terms of user disruption lie.  Users who didn't expect the overnight shutdown are often distraught to find their work has been lost in apps that don't auto-save.

The dreaded restart prompt

To remedy this Microsoft is making some important changes to Windows Update Automatic (WU Auto) with Windows 8.

Time to Save Your Work
  1. WU Auto will now only restart your locked machine after you log in, preventing restarts on locked machines overnight
  2. WU Auto will now give you a big message on login informing you that you have 15 minutes to save your work.
  3. If programs are running (active use) and you're logged in when the restart order rolls in, you will be given the same message.
Save your stuff...

No Interruption to Media
If you're:
  1. In presentation mode
  2. Watching a fullscreen movie
  3. Playing a game
Your machine won't attempt the restart until you're done.  

An important issue not really explained here is whether third-party movie players (in fullscreen mode) are supported, and similarly whether third-party slide presentation software (like Open Office Impress) will be caught by this check.

Less Updates and New Login Warnings

Windows Update login screen
  1. The auto restart is now changed to once a month, barring critical security updates.  Important stability updates and their ilk will no longer force restarts at other times of the month.
  2. The update day, as always is the second Tuesday of the month and the time is 3 a.m. in the user's selected time zone.
  3. For users with WU Auto enabled, you'll now be informed by a message at the bottom right corner of the login screen how many days remain until the big shutdown and restart day.
  4. These users will see a message that reads "Your PC will restart in [X] days to finish installing security updates."
  5. For users with WU Auto disabled, you'll get similar messages, instead informing you about whether you need to download or install important updates.  For these users -- who represent roughly 5.82 percent of the total Windows 7 install base, a message "Important updates are ready to be installed." will display.
    Important updates
  6. Clicking the power button beneath the message for either WU Auto on or off, allows the user to manually choose "Update and shut down" or "Update and restart".
  7. Lastly IT administrators who disable WU Auto for their enterprise users, will now have their users presented with a "Your PC needs to restart to finish installing security updates." message on the login screen.  The users are offered equivalent options to the home users via a power button.
    Important updates
In Win. 7's implementation of Windows Update, you can actually turn off automatic restarts by:
  1. Clicking the Windows button
  2. Typing "regedit" in the search bar
  3. Navigating to "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU"
  4. Right clicking
  5. Selecting to creat a new 32-bit DWORD value named "NoAutoRebootWithLoggedOnUsers"
  6. Set the new variable to 1.
However, Windows Update's automatic restarts are a natural and (relatively) healthy process that prevents user procrastination from crippling the security of the Windows platform.  With its changes, Microsoft appears to be on the right track to making WU's "Automatic" less destructive when it comes to forced restarts.

To the end user that means less headaches and more peace of mind.

III. What About the Third Parties?

Ms. Rahman also tossed in an interesting note in the conclusion, stating that some customers have expressed interest in programs (e.g. games, etc.) having the chance to send users patches via Windows Update.  She comments that this isn't feasible because of the risk of sacrificing the trust of WU if a destructive update (be it unintentional or intentional) slipped through.

She writes:

[U]sers have also told us that they trust the quality of updates distributed by WU and hence are comfortable with choosing to automatically update their systems. We would not want to do anything that might reduce trust in the system by encouraging people to take on this management task manually and exposing their PCs to potential vulnerabilities for even short times.

Through WU and the “Microsoft Update” option (opt-in) we also offer updates for Microsoft products and for 3rd-party device drivers, with a common set of setup tools for each. All of these updates are carefully screened, and must adhere to the Windows conventions for updates regarding rollback and recovery, and overall system impact.

This seems like a smart line of thinking.  Some updates -- like a recent AntiVir Guard update -- have had unintended destructive effects on Windows machines.  The last thing Microsoft needs -- given the already precarious position of being the world's biggest OS maker and hence the world's biggest target -- is to be blamed for the issues caused by negligent third-parties, which would be the likely scenario if Windows Update delivered the offending patch.

On the other hand, she points out that Microsoft's upcoming Windows Store -- which will deliver Metro styled apps in Windows 8, similar to App Store in OS X -- will offer developers that ability to send out automatic updates.  The key here, appears to be that Microsoft is happy to provide developers with a sound update framework; they just want to keep it separated from the base operating system updates for reputation and trust purposes.

Windows 8 pops up in 2012 and will be the first Windows operating system refined for multi-touch tablets.  Thus far the beta program has been a big success, like its Windows 7 predecessor.

Source: Microsoft

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Here's a good idea
By borismkv on 11/15/2011 4:51:46 PM , Rating: 5
Save your work before you lock the computer for the night.

RE: Here's a good idea
By chmilz on 11/15/2011 5:06:12 PM , Rating: 5
Shut up and stop making stupid people look bad.

RE: Here's a good idea
By mcnabney on 11/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: Here's a good idea
By Reclaimer77 on 11/15/2011 5:22:02 PM , Rating: 5
Always trust MS to do what is in their own best interests.

How is it in THEIR best interests that you get security updates, fixes, and Windows Defender definition updates? It's in YOUR best interests.

RE: Here's a good idea
By deltaend on 11/15/11, Rating: 0
RE: Here's a good idea
By Reclaimer77 on 11/15/2011 7:29:30 PM , Rating: 2
This is not an "issue". End of discussion. I can't even get into it or I fear the stupid will wear off on me.

MS got railed on for being not secure enough. MS goes a long way to fixing that, but if someone is inconvenienced a little bit, they get railed on for that too. Even though they can freaking TURN OFF the automatic update reboot!

Hence why so many people flock to Mac

So many? Barely anyone relative to Windows.

RE: Here's a good idea
By Skywalker123 on 11/15/2011 9:48:43 PM , Rating: 3
stupid is ingrained in you, it will never wear off.

RE: Here's a good idea
By Spuke on 11/15/2011 10:23:02 PM , Rating: 3
I love this place. :)

RE: Here's a good idea
By tastyratz on 11/16/2011 8:38:48 AM , Rating: 2
I am going to agree with you here reclaimer... (boy that sounds funny to say aloud.)

This falls into the area of "can't please everyone". Given the nature of the problem in the short time one might expect that MS would simply for now disable any forced application shut downs and cancel the reboot process if a dialog box pops up. Then the user would be left with xyz "do you want to save" dialog box and another one for windows update saying "Reboot after updates failed, reboot now?"

Although I have to admit for the overall picture I would think no restart updates would be a focus as well as reality by now. I find myself puzzled that we even demand restarts for anything at this point, and that ms can not design things in a way that allows component restarts without system restarts. Why can ms not for example virtualize the component receiving the update running a second copy of xyz until updates are complete, then re-point back to the original component on completion?
Or maybe allow "soft resets" where applications are told the system is going to sleep or similar, then told it is resuming from the low power state once work has been completed?
I'm also an internet armchair programmer here trivializing something so massive as an operating system and I know it isn't "that easy". I suppose my expectation is more that easy or not windows has been around long enough to have a solution.

Think 100% live patching for severs that does not include bringing them down, and passing that down to consumer machines. You can not say that would be anything but praised and likely increase adoption rates.

RE: Here's a good idea
By chmilz on 11/15/2011 5:24:56 PM , Rating: 5
1. Install Windows
2. Change Windows Update to "Download updates and let me choose when to install them"
3. Stop crying like a baby and save money previously spent on tissue

PS - If losing two television episodes causes you that much rage, you've got bigger problems than Windows Update, friend

RE: Here's a good idea
By sprockkets on 11/15/2011 10:26:05 PM , Rating: 1
This does not work - you must not allow it to install or check ever. I know this from experience.

Quite frankly this feature has pissed me off since XP SP2. In fact, when it first happened the inquirer reported that a person was going to present a bill of time lost due to the restart, in the thousands.

RE: Here's a good idea
By Solandri on 11/15/2011 10:53:31 PM , Rating: 2
The problem is nearly every security app out there (including Microsoft's own Action Center) complains if you have updates set to anything other than fully automatic. They have an option to disable the warnings, but the thing is I don't want to disable it. I still want to be notified if some rogue program changes my updates to never update. Unfortunately it's like they assume if you don't want automatic updates, you must not care about security.

So I have to live with the hassle. And on occasion (I tested out a bunch of antivirus programs) I've missed a security notice, and it turned my updates back to automatic without me realizing it. The thing seems to have a penchant for automatically rebooting at the worst possible times. It's interrupted a raid in an online game (fortunately my friends managed without me), and a 1.5 TB data backup which was about 10 hours in (out of 13 needed). Windows doesn't have rsync, so I had no way to tell which file had been interrupted by the reboot and was corrupt. I had to do the entire backup over in overwrite mode. (This was the incident which led me to find teracopy.)

It's just a very user unfriendly design the way it's been implemented in XP -> Win7. I'm glad to hear they're fixing it in Win8. (Incidentally, on a laptop you want it set to "notify me of updates but let me choose when to download and install." If you set it "automatically download but let me install", one day when you're in a car desperately trying to download a 10 MB file over a 3G phone data connection for a presentation you have to make for a client in 15 minutes, Windows will decide that's the perfect time to start downloading that 200 MB service pack.)

RE: Here's a good idea
By Belard on 11/17/2011 9:08:15 PM , Rating: 2
When you have 1.5TB of data to backup... just do a whole drive copy.

It'll be faster.

RE: Here's a good idea
By borismkv on 11/15/2011 5:35:25 PM , Rating: 3
What are you recording at 3AM? The Skinemax movies will be repeated eventually and informercials can't be *that* important...

RE: Here's a good idea
By seamonkey79 on 11/15/2011 5:09:33 PM , Rating: 2
No doubt... rather silly to expect that there will never be a power outage or some other issue while you're not there, never mind the fact that you should have saved it anyway when you got up. No cure for user problems, I suppose, but at least this should help mitigate the support calls from people calling Microsoft to yell at them because their six hour to type term paper was lost because they didn't save and the computer rebooted for an update they 'didn't need' or some such.

RE: Here's a good idea
By inighthawki on 11/15/2011 5:12:15 PM , Rating: 2
Sadly that's not always just the case. I've had it happen on my home computer where i hit "tell me again in 4 hours" then, about 3h and 50m later, I suddenly get a phone call or get taken away from my computer, and while I'm away (from doing something important) it'll prompt again and begin counting down from 10-15 minutes and auto reboot. It doesn't always just happen overnight, and it's not just about "saving" data. I can have a lot of windows open, and having the PC reboot and close all of the programs and their current state, it makes me lose valuable time or information.

RE: Here's a good idea
By Motoman on 11/16/2011 9:52:37 AM , Rating: 1
Protip: You can hold a phone with one hand, and with the other hand, use your mouse to click the "save" button on programs you have unsaved work in.

RE: Here's a good idea
By Russell on 11/17/2011 6:24:28 PM , Rating: 2
This man speaks the truth. I operate my computer with one hand ALL the time.

RE: Here's a good idea
By Jedi2155 on 11/23/2011 5:20:51 AM , Rating: 2
I only need one hand to change videos...

RE: Here's a good idea
By martyrant on 11/15/2011 5:19:10 PM , Rating: 2
How about just turning it off when you're done with it? I can personally wait the 30-40 seconds it takes for my computer (now 3 years old minus the gfx and ssds, though they are 2nd gen intel's) to boot to a usable state. SSDs, granted, make this possible, but just about anyone browsing these sites probably (if they were smart) already made that upgrade.

I know people are going to cry about something they love to leave running overnight, but just build a low-power server (I have one for this reason as well, but even I shut the server down quite often).

I'm surprised people even complain about this, it's been such a non-issue for me for years.

RE: Here's a good idea
By Chaotic42 on 11/15/2011 9:43:20 PM , Rating: 2
You've never had to leave a process running overnight? It might just be the industry in which I work, but I have to do that quite a bit. I try and time my processes around my lunch and my quitting time. The computer should never restart unless it specifically told to.

RE: Here's a good idea
By Natch on 11/16/2011 8:43:39 AM , Rating: 3
Here's a better idea. Set your updates to notify you, but NOT do automatic updates. If you're an advanced (experienced) user of Windows, you'll see the notifier, and decide when to install your updates, when it's convenient for YOU .

RE: Here's a good idea
By Motoman on 11/16/2011 9:54:11 AM , Rating: 3
Agreed. I like the auto-restart...because I'm not stupid enough to walk away from my computer for the night with unsaved work open.

There's nothing more basic about using a computer than clicking the Save button. And nothing more stupid than walking away without clicking the Save button.

Stupid hurts. Stop being stupid.

RE: Here's a good idea
By blankslate on 11/16/2011 3:47:15 PM , Rating: 2
Stupid hurts. Stop being stupid.

This does apply. Yet people are still arguing because saving a piece of work involves some form of herculean task that I'm unaware of.

After one experience of a security update reboot erasing hours of work you'd think that people would learn the keyboard shortcut for saving a piece of work in whatever program they are working and hit it every so often.

It's common sense. Just about every textbook I've read that pertaining to learning how to use computers or using something like MS offices has some variation of the warning "Save early and save often."

Just following that advice can prevent a majority of the complaints from people about the automatic reboots. The solution is easy yet requires a bit of action from the computer user. I guess it's easier to whine and moan about Microsoft than to help yourself because remembering to use a keyboard shortcut is so effing hard.

RE: Here's a good idea
By inighthawki on 11/16/2011 3:55:25 PM , Rating: 2
I've never had it make me lose work, but I've certainly had it close all my open programs and lose their states as i was in the middle of something. It can be a pain to try and find and reopen everything you already had open. I often times have multiple firefox windows, PDF documents of research articles, programming projects, calculators, etc. Reopening and finding the place I was in in all of these documents just to get back in the flow of what i was doing is a huge pain.

Sometimes I have IM chats open in the middle of a conversation. Rebooting will close the window, and while yes, the chats are saved to file somewhere, I now don't have access to everything in the chat window.

Perhaps I had a playlist in a media player going. Went through and selected specific tracks I felt like listening to. Gone.

You people need to stop assuming that everyone's problem is that they didn't hit "save" because sometimes that's really not the issue at all. There is a lot more you can lose than just data. You can lose time, workflow, etc.

RE: Here's a good idea
By cjohnson2136 on 11/16/2011 4:12:46 PM , Rating: 3
Why the hell are you fighting so hard against this new implementation then. It is an article about how Win 8 is changing and all you complain about is Win 7. This is going to be telling you days in advance that you need to restart. If you really can't plan a restart days worth of notice then go get a Mac because you really are stupid.

RE: Here's a good idea
By inighthawki on 11/16/2011 5:01:41 PM , Rating: 2
Huh? when did i complain about the new implementation? I am 100% FOR this new model. All I'm doing is trying to tell other people that the flaw in Windows 7's auto-rebooting has far more to do with just not saving a document, as people seem to think that the only way it can inconvenience someone is because they didn't save their "6 hour to write term paper."

Which part of my comment implied I had any issues with the solution in Windows 8? Since I don't think I even mentioned that.

RE: Here's a good idea
By cjohnson2136 on 11/17/2011 9:16:57 AM , Rating: 1
The point is who the hell cares if you have problems with Win 7 it has nothing to do with the article.

RE: Here's a good idea
By blankslate on 11/16/2011 5:24:35 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sure that you that you can set the updates to only notify you when there are updates so that you can choose when to download and install the updates.

This would allow you to tell the person(or people) you are im chatting with "Hey I have to reboot my computer because of OS updates" and it will give you time to create a newer play list from the current play list.

This would even allow you to wind down and work up to a suitable point to pause in a work project.

I often times have multiple firefox windows, PDF documents of research articles, programming projects, calculators, etc. Reopening and finding the place I was in in all of these documents just to get back in the flow of what i was doing is a huge pain.

If you really have so many things open on the computer to create such a problem for you during an automatic reboot then you might be trying to multi-task beyond the practical limitations of people in general.
You might actually benefit from having fewer windows open on your desktop.

That being said, if this is really all you have to worry about with your computer experiences then you really are "making a mountain out of a molehill."

RE: Here's a good idea
By inighthawki on 11/16/2011 5:49:02 PM , Rating: 2
I should clarify a few things:

1) It's not a huge issue, it's really only happened once, maybe twice ever.

2) I was really only pointing out that there are possibilities other than "Whoops, i didn't save my open documents" that can be affected by windows update.

3) (If I was really worried about it, I am aware of ways to disable automatic rebooting)

If you really have so many things open on the computer to create such a problem for you ...

This has never been a problem for me at all. I can multitask incredibly well. Like most people though, if you have everything sorted and in a particular order and something comes in, knocks everything around, moves stuff, puts stuff away, etc, you can lose track of where you were.

But in the end you are right, I am making a mountain out of a molehill but not because I think it's that serious of an issue, but to make a point. It CAN be a problem, and sometimes it's a problem for more than just forgetting (or just simply not) saving something that you've been working on. It can cause more than simple data loss.

RE: Here's a good idea
By blankslate on 11/16/2011 10:35:30 PM , Rating: 2
It can cause more than simple data loss.

While automatic updates can cause more than data loss users are not helpless. Usually updates happen on the 2nd tuesday of every month. MS also allows people who use Windows to change the way that they receive updates for their computers.

Leaving your computer without saving your work is sort of like that guy who goes to the doctor and says "Hey doc, it hurts when I do this... and the doctor says "Well don't do that anymore."

Microsoft is providing another way to help people who might get upset over an unexpected reboot for updates.

However, if people are a little more proactive when it comes to learning about some of the more essential Windows features they could avoid unexpected loss of data other things that may be irritating about OS security updates.

In other words if a computer user helps themselves a little more with regards to customizing settings in their OS then they would find the new feature discussed in this article nice but not necessary.

How to prevent reboots.
By Sivar on 11/15/2011 10:48:44 PM , Rating: 4
Create the DWORD value:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Wi ndows\WindowsUpdate\AU\NoAutoRebootWithLoggedOnUser s

Give it a value of 1.
No more automatic reboots. Reminders still pop-up.

RE: How to prevent reboots.
By Luticus on 11/16/2011 4:57:32 PM , Rating: 2
Great idea, just one question.

Why not just go into the control panel and then to windows update and then change settings? Here you can change how your computer updates and if it reboots or not. Windows 8 will probably keep this similar.

Here is an IDEA!
By Belard on 11/15/2011 9:22:15 PM , Rating: 2
First, add this Auto Update (Upgrade) to Windows 7... its not hard.

Second, users should really be saving their work and shutting down their computers. I hate seeing several PCs left on - doing NOTHING... for about 16 hours!

Third - Windows Auto Update has problems. Like installing Office 2007 patches even thou the computer doesn't have office 2007, never had it - never will (they have office 2003 or 2010).

4th - question, does this apply to Win7 computers which are already asleep?

Isn't it about time...
By EricMartello on 11/15/2011 9:51:11 PM , Rating: 2
...that they designed an OS with more modularity that does not require a system reboot to apply system updates? How about using spawning "shadow" services of the main services, then allowing the main service to update while the shadow service acts as a temporary stand-in...

Booting and rebooting is an outdated paradigm that should be discarded along with other stupid sh1t like bios, non-unified hardware device interfaces, segmented memory and other stopgaps that have become a permanent fixture of modern computing.

Avira is not AVG
By Widget101 on 11/16/2011 2:26:26 PM , Rating: 2
Jason, you may want to correct your link text regarding the AntiVir Guard update. The article you reference in your post concerns a botched update by AVG, not the AntiVir Guard which is a component of Avira's antivirus software.

Good Job
By Luticus on 11/16/2011 4:53:15 PM , Rating: 2
I just wanted to say that I applaud your coverage of this! It was very in-depth and through. The guys over at Engadget butchered this blog post and it's really nice to see a tech site that bothers to read the article and post facts in their proper context. A welcome change!

Automatic Restart
By Wulf145 on 11/17/2011 8:33:41 AM , Rating: 2
Am I the only one here who has never encoutered this Problem?
Not once has my Windows machine restarted without my consent, I have been "Reminded" that I have to restart the machine for the changes to take effect, but it has never restarted automaticaly without informing me that it will do so before I start the Update process i.e.when installing a Service Pack.

Let me fix that for you
By mattclary on 11/17/2011 1:33:07 PM , Rating: 2
Start > Run > gpedit.msc

Computer Configuration > Administrative Components > Windows Components > Windows Update

No auto-restart with logged on users for scheduled automatic updates installations > Enabled

Microsoft aka Monopoly
By Argon18 on 11/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: Microsoft aka Monopoly
By inighthawki on 11/15/2011 7:31:38 PM , Rating: 5
First and foremost, this has nothing to do with the article.

Secondly, this is not 100% true. Microsoft only requires that a Windows 8 PC be shipped with the secure boot option ON. They do not require the ability to turn it off, but let's face it, anyone who is ready to dual boot their PC with Linux or an older version of windows is smart enough to ensure that this is an option before they buy the PC.

Quit complaining.

RE: Microsoft aka Monopoly
By T2k on 11/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: Microsoft aka Monopoly
By inighthawki on 11/15/2011 8:53:24 PM , Rating: 2
Right, because Microsoft is secretly plotting to lock out the 0.1% of the marketshare that dual boots Linux. Give me a break, you and every other Linux fanboy out there is completely overreacting.

First and foremost stop fuckin making up claims that it's not true - it IS TRUE< they said it themselves.

Please point me to the quote from Microsoft saying that their goal is to lock out anything that's not Windows 8? I guarentee you cannot find it for me.

Microsoft is not a Monopoly. They are building a technology into their OS that is a feature of UEFI, not Windows. There is no rule out there that says that a company is a Monopoly for not including support for another company's product. Please, get over yourself.

RE: Microsoft aka Monopoly
By Onimuto on 11/15/11, Rating: -1
RE: Microsoft aka Monopoly
By inighthawki on 11/15/2011 10:10:57 PM , Rating: 2
Why would this prevent you from upgrading your hardware?

RE: Microsoft aka Monopoly
By Helbore on 11/16/2011 8:52:07 AM , Rating: 1
This is only an issue for people who don't know how to get into the UEFI configuration menu and turn off secure boot. If someone is that ignorant of computer hardware, they're not going to be using Linux anyway.

Anyone who wants to dual-boot Windows 8 with any other OS, can do. You can either turn off secure boot or you can buy a PC/build a PC without that capability built in. Either option will then allow you to dual-boot Windows and any other OS, just as you can currently.

If, on the other hand, you have some serious beef with Microsoft as a company, you could just not buy a PC with Windows on it and only use an OS from a developer that you like.

Options on PCs are not difficult, so long as you are not a moron.

RE: Microsoft aka Monopoly
By Argon18 on 11/16/2011 9:40:03 AM , Rating: 2
No, that's exactly the point - there is no option to turn it off. Microsoft is requiring that it cannot be turned off. You cannot turn off secure boot, ever. The only thing you can do, is load additional boot encryption keys - if the hardware vendor allows it, and has written their UEFI code to allow it.

But how much you wanna bet that Microsoft will give these hardware makers $ incentives $ to not allow it.

RE: Microsoft aka Monopoly
By omnicronx on 11/16/2011 9:59:26 AM , Rating: 2
No, that's exactly the point - there is no option to turn it off.
Stop reading 3 month old propaganda.

It will be up to the OEM to decide, Microsoft has NO REQUIREMENT that secure boot cannot be disabled. Their only requirement is that it must be on to boot into Windows 8.

Dell has already stated they will support turning it off (sounds like HP has too), and BIOS makers have already passed on this information to OEM's aswell.

It won't be in the best interests of OEM's to ship PC's that do not have an option to turn secure boot off, especially when you consider the effort to implement such a thing would be minimal, and not including it could actually negatively impact sales in certain cases.

Unless MS is paying off all the OEM's (which I can pretty much assure you is not the case, anyone pretending that MS can pull off such a thing are kidding themselves), what incentive do OEM's and manufacturers have to not include an option to turn it off? Why would they impose limits on their own products which could easily negatively impact sales?

RE: Microsoft aka Monopoly
By Helbore on 11/16/2011 10:28:55 AM , Rating: 3
Yes, there is.

Microsoft have never said they will force OEMs to have no option to disable secure boot. This was all assmptions made by people when the secure boot feature was first announced. Those assumptions were quickly refuted by Microsoft.

Microsoft don't care if you dual-boot your PC with Linux. They only care that you buy Windows. If you are dual-booting a PC running Windows 8, Microsoft already have your cash and couldn't care less if you use another OS on that PC as well.

As for offering incentives to OEMs to make them not support control of secure boot, remember how well that went for Intel? They did it, got caught, got taken to court and were sued for anti-trust violations. MS have been down that route before, they're not wanting to go down it again - especially over something that offers no benefit to them.

Just remember; there's no benefit to Microsoft stopping a minority of people from dual-booting alongside Windows. If you've already got Windows, Microsoft have made their money. Dual-booting with Windows does not stop Microsoft making money.

RE: Microsoft aka Monopoly
By inighthawki on 11/16/2011 2:55:24 PM , Rating: 2
That is actually as wrong as you can get. Go read almost every article and it states that Microsoft has NO REQUIREMENT to whether or not it can be turned off. It is 100% up to the OEM, or hardware vendor, as to whether or not it can be turned off. Until it's released, you also have no idea what percent will actually not.

RE: Microsoft aka Monopoly
By omnicronx on 11/16/2011 9:45:59 AM , Rating: 2
The Windows 8 UEFI Secure Boot system will only protect the Windows 8 boot process--it won't prevent other operating systems from being loaded on Windows 8 PCs.

.. I could go on..

Please do us all a favor, put your tin foil hat back on, stick your head back in the sand and keep your paranoia to yourself.

RE: Microsoft aka Monopoly
By Argon18 on 11/16/11, Rating: 0
RE: Microsoft aka Monopoly
By inighthawki on 11/16/2011 2:31:16 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry, at least one of you two is providing proof and quotes to their claims, unlike the other who is screaming nonsense.

“And I don't know why [Apple is] acting like it’s superior. I don't even get it. What are they trying to say?” -- Bill Gates on the Mac ads

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