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Windows 8 hits a milestone

Microsoft announced today that Windows 8 has been released to manufacturing (RTM). If you've been keeping up with the development of Windows 8, you already know that the official consumer release date for Microsoft's next generation operating system is October 26.
MSDN/TechNet members will get their first crack at Windows 8 on August 15. Members of Microsoft's Software Assurance program will have access one day later. Microsoft Action Pack Providers will be eligible on August 20 and Volume License customers can purchase the operating system on September 1.
As previously reported, customers can upgrade to Windows 8 via download for only $39.99 or $69.99 via a disc. For those that simply can't wait until October 26 to purchase a new computer, Microsoft is offering customers the chance to upgrade to Windows 8 for $14.99 via the Windows Upgrade Offer program.

Microsoft’s Steven Sinofsky had this to say about the development of Windows 8:
Back when we first demonstrated Windows 8 in May 2011, we described it as “reimagining Windows, from the chipset to the experience,” and that is what Windows 8 (and Windows RT) represents for both Microsoft and partners. The collective work: from the silicon, to the user experience, to new apps, has been an incredibly collaborative effort. Together we are bringing to customers a new PC experience that readies Windows PCs for a new world of scenarios and experiences, while also preserving an industry-wide 25-year investment in Windows software.
And for those wondering, the final build number for Windows 8 RTM is 9200.16384.win8_rtm.120725-1247

Sources: Microsoft [1], [2]

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Can't wait
By tayb on 8/1/2012 1:16:26 PM , Rating: 1
Very excited about Windows 8. Can't wait to switch all my home computers and for my company to switch in January. I'm also excited to see what kind of tablets OEMs come out with this fall to compete with iPad, Android tablets, and Surface.

I can't believe they're offering this for $40. When Windows 7 came out I had to ask my friend who was still a student at UT to get me a student license and even that was $17. Crazy cheap, especially from MS.

RE: Can't wait
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2012 1:32:43 PM , Rating: 4
I can't believe they're offering this for $40.

Having used it, I can believe it. It would be criminal to charge anything more for it.

RE: Can't wait
By tayb on 8/1/2012 1:45:57 PM , Rating: 3
Microsoft account login/Windows Live syncing
Redesigned task manager
Xbox Live integration
Storage spaces
Windows Defender built in
Picture/Pin authentication
Increased boot speed
Refresh/Reset recovery
Bootable from USB
USB 3.0 support
Vastly improved search functionality
Improved application "snapping" for multi-tasking
Re-designed and improved control panel
Vastly improved copy/paste functionality
Charms bar (bet you've never heard of it)
File history
Built in PDF reader

Just to name a few great features that either don't exist in Windows 7 or are greatly improved. Oh, but, the start screen, oh the humanity!! I have to press Windows+D to get to my desktop!!!

RE: Can't wait
By kleinma on 8/1/2012 2:03:08 PM , Rating: 2
Just ignore reclaimer, he is a troll who posts anti microsoft drivel in all articles he gets his grubby MS hating hands on.

RE: Can't wait
By melgross on 8/1/2012 2:03:56 PM , Rating: 5
If that's all you have to say about the usability of 8 then you haven't used the two previews. There's a good reason why so many people, including long time Microsoft users, are pulling their hair out over this.

And just wait until you use the Desktop on a tablet. You'll just love it!

RE: Can't wait
By kleinma on 8/1/2012 2:08:09 PM , Rating: 5
I will love using the desktop on my surface tablet that comes with full keyboard and touchpad support built into the screen cover. Can't wait.

I am a long time Windows user and have embraced each new version with an open mind, not stuck on how things were done in the last version and how they are done now. If I find certain things are now harder to do than before, that is one thing, but I have not had that experience in Windows 8. While I am sure someone will post some half baked rank about no start button or how they miss the start menu versus the start screen, I am just not one of those people.

RE: Can't wait
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2012 2:31:18 PM , Rating: 5
Surface is where Windows 8, specifically Metro, belongs though. We're talking about the nightmare Windows 8 is on the Desktop computer. So, yeah, way to completely NOT get it here.

It's just a bad idea to roll your tablet, phone, and desktop OS all into one solution and think it's going to work out for everyone. Especially given that you cannot have a streamlined mobile OS when there's 25 years of Windows code piled on it's back. There's a reason iPhone's and iPads run iOS, not OSX.

RE: Can't wait
By StevoLincolnite on 8/1/2012 2:54:55 PM , Rating: 3
There's a reason iPhone's and iPads run iOS, not OSX.

iOS also don't run high-powered Intel processors.

Remember that Arm chips are in the same league as Atom processors, which in turn don't have the IPC that can even match a Pentium 3 Tualatin, let alone Sandy or Ivy bridge.

Microsoft+Intel will pretty much have the high-end performance tablets locked down, tablets which can actually do work like transcode video from the tablet to every video screen in a car.

You can't compare the iPad to an Intel+Windows 8 tablet, they're completely different beasts and from a performance perspective, the iPad will loose every time, no contest.

RE: Can't wait
By 91TTZ on 8/1/2012 2:59:46 PM , Rating: 3
His point was about the UI design, not the hardware specs. He's saying that what is optimal on a desktop is different than what is optimal on a touchscreen device.

RE: Can't wait
By kleinma on 8/1/2012 3:07:16 PM , Rating: 2
Except I run Win8 on 2 non touch devices (desktop and laptop) and I have no problem at all using a mouse. None. No issue. It is EASIER to click a tile with the mouse than a smaller icon from a previous OS. The mouse and keyboard work absolutely 100% fine in Win8. Reclaimer is just a pure ignorant MS hating troll. Nothing more, nothing less.

RE: Can't wait
By 91TTZ on 8/1/2012 3:24:47 PM , Rating: 3
But I've used Windows 8 and Server 2012 on the desktop, and I find them both to be harder to use than previous versions. The entire UI seems to be optimized for touch screens. It's as if Microsoft resorted to the lowest common denominator between desktops and touchscreens.

RE: Can't wait
By kleinma on 8/1/2012 4:07:50 PM , Rating: 2
Optimized for touch screens? Doesn't that just mean things are bigger so you can click them with a finger? A mouse cursor is smaller than a finger, so it should make those things even easier to click with a mouse...

RE: Can't wait
By 91TTZ on 8/1/2012 4:20:44 PM , Rating: 3
Yes, optimized for touch screens. Here's the main difference:

With desktops, screens have become much larger over the years and that increased desktop real estate is used to fit more icons or more content into that area.

Once mobile devices came around, suddenly screens have become much smaller. Whereas many people have 20, 22, or 24" monitors on their desktop, touchscreens are usually 4"-10". This means that icons must be much larger and they take up a much larger percentage of the screen. If you put those same graphics on a desktop it looks a bit ridiculous and inefficient.

It seems like your only point is that it's easier to click on a few giant buttons instead of many smaller buttons.

RE: Can't wait
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/12, Rating: 0
RE: Can't wait
By kleinma on 8/1/2012 4:22:30 PM , Rating: 2
You can't resize what windows? Metro application windows? Metro apps run full screen (or side bared).

You can certainly use the scroll wheel in the metro start screen. it scrolls the screen from left to right. If you hold ctrl and scroll, it zooms out so you can see your groups of tiles, name them, organize them, etc..

So where does the scroll not work in the start screen?

What am I not being honest about? You think I am lying that I like Windows 8? That I have no problems with it without the use of a touchscreen?

You can have any opinion you like, it is to be respected. You post lies though, and for that you are branded a troll.

RE: Can't wait
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2012 4:29:34 PM , Rating: 2
Metro apps run full screen (or side bared).

Exactly! God are you really this stupid? Can't you see how retarded it is to force us into full screen apps like our PC's are phones and tablets? That is NOT the Windows experience we know and love.

So where does the scroll not work in the start screen?

You can't scroll VERTICALLY! You know, like everything else we use does 100% of the time? Left and right, just for the sake of it, is another touch-screen iteration that works poorly with a desktop PC and mouse.

And you call me a troll, kid, you can't brand anyone much less me.

RE: Can't wait
By kingmotley on 8/1/2012 4:32:27 PM , Rating: 2
He doesn't need to brand you anything, you've pretty much branded yourself in every article here in DailyTech.

RE: Can't wait
By kleinma on 8/1/2012 4:46:00 PM , Rating: 2
Metro apps are supposed to be full screen. You constantly ignore the fact that the desktop is still there and desktop apps can run in windows just like they always did and you can resize them up and down and side to side until your heart is content. Metro apps (Which if you don't want any you don't have to install any) run full screen. Can't you see how retarded it is that you can't get that concept into your pea sized brain? The "windows experience" you "know and love" is a desktop click away. Get the fuck over it already.

"can't scroll vertically"... well I see we have hit a new low of things to complain about. How the fuck is scrolling vertically with a mouse or scrolling horizontally with a mouse different other than the scroll orientation? Still works the same way with a scrollbar or a mouse wheel, or a finger. So how in the hell is that a touch screen only thing? Don't you see how baseless your comments are?

RE: Can't wait
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/12, Rating: 0
RE: Can't wait
By kleinma on 8/1/2012 6:32:52 PM , Rating: 1
Thank you for validating what an asshat you are.

RE: Can't wait
By WalksTheWalk on 8/2/2012 1:26:23 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, although not as strongly.

Windows 8 is foisting a touch UI onto the desktop. This is a concession Microsoft is making to compete in the tablet space and many users are upset because they are offering no other options. Sure, you can still use all of your desktop apps and software makers will still make desktop apps in the future. BUT, Microsoft is trying to push the Metro interface and their app store into the mainstream where the same window rules don't apply, and even hamstring the desktop experience. As more and more applications move to Metro without a classic desktop version, the limitations and issues of Windows 8 with Metro apps when using a mouse and keyboard become obvious.

I love the idea of a desktop and touch OS in one, but Microsoft could have merged the two much better. For instance, on desktops they could have made Metro apps appear in a window on the desktop where the window can be rotated to simulate a tablet experience. Windows could remember the window orientation so the next time you launch that Metro app it comes up in the orientation. This is just one observation of many.

RE: Can't wait
By noirsoft on 8/3/2012 6:05:24 AM , Rating: 2
We understand your point well. The problem is that your point is nonsense. Windows 8 empirically works just fine with a keyboard and mouse: either just as good as, or better than Windows 7 for the same tasks. Your incoherent rantings (OMG, I can't scroll vertically in something that doesn't have content in the vertical direction!) are like complaining that you can't pedal your automobile while ignoring that just using the engine provided in the car is actually faster.

RE: Can't wait
By Belard on 8/1/2012 9:18:53 PM , Rating: 1
The Win8x86 tablet will win? Okay, put it against the iPad on a convention floor for 10 hours... see which one is working after 5~6 hours of usage.

RE: Can't wait
By StevoLincolnite on 8/2/2012 12:14:18 AM , Rating: 2
I have a Convertible Netbook Tablet with Windows on it. I get 11 hours of battery life with the screen at 50% brightness and browsing the web.

Significantly more than that 5-6 hour number.

RE: Can't wait
By Belard on 8/2/2012 3:00:11 AM , Rating: 2
Really?! They make a 1.35lb netbook that gets 9+ hours on a regular battery pack?

RE: Can't wait
By tayb on 8/1/2012 3:05:06 PM , Rating: 2
We're talking about the nightmare Windows 8 is on the Desktop computer. So, yeah, way to completely NOT get it here.

I don't know how you can continue to claim to have used Windows 8 when you still do not understand that the desktop is still there and is relatively unchanged from Windows 7. This is a fundamental aspect of Windows 8 that anyone who has spent more than 3 seconds using the OS would understand.

RE: Can't wait
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2012 4:00:26 PM , Rating: 3
Tayb Windows 8 is a touch screen OS, not a desktop OS. Accept that and let's move on. I know the desktop is still there, that doesn't matter. Windows will continue to Metroize the Windows experience and push more and more for it's use and development until it WILL be the default UI for Windows.

And you know what, have some credibility and stop making me seem like some oddball holdout. Read Anandtech forums, do some Google searches. There's literally MILLIONS of people who have the same opinion I do about Windows 8. Hell a freaking well known Windows analyst, someone who makes a living talking about this stuff, called Windows 8 the "next Windows ME". Hello?

When Windows 8 was made available for testing, what's the FIRST thing the community did? Yup, they found a Registry hack and disabled Metro. Maybe that should clue you in? The biggest change to the Windows ecosystem ever made, and all testers wanted to do was turn it the freak off. That's all you need to know right there about how Metro is being received by desktop pc users.

So you can make it all about me if you want, fine, I can take all comers. But maybe just get a clue.

RE: Can't wait
By kleinma on 8/1/2012 4:09:24 PM , Rating: 1
Everything you just said is not true and sensationalized.

RE: Can't wait
By kleinma on 8/1/2012 4:09:55 PM , Rating: 2
Oh and it is also not backed with any actual facts or references. But why bother with things like facts right reclaimer?

RE: Can't wait
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2012 4:18:32 PM , Rating: 2
If that was the case you would have bothered refuting me with some kind of evidence, not just your own bias. I can back everything up that I said, let's see you pretend to do the same.

Respected forum showing massive Windows 8 dislike polling

Half of Windows 8 testers wouldn't recommend it.

And I have way more but the stupid spam filter is being a Nazi. Also the analyst calling it the next ME was in a article right here on DT written by Jason Mick. Not true? How dare you call me a liar!

This isn't some myopic story about me or a friend, these are thousands of people's opinions. Which last time I checked counted for a crapton more than just yours.

RE: Can't wait
By kingmotley on 8/1/2012 4:29:48 PM , Rating: 2
In what universe is respected?

And according to the pcworld article you quoted, less than half liked the metro UI, but there were 17.1% that would HIGHLY recommend it, and almost half that would. Of course if 49.6% of the Windows user base upgraded, most would consider that a highly successful release, especially coming off the heals of the Windows 7 release, which was pretty good in its own right.

RE: Can't wait
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2012 4:37:33 PM , Rating: 2
Oh yeah, I'm sure you would be ecstatic to know 17% of a target demographic wanted to buy your product. Come on, are you trolling me now?

And like I said, I had WAY more links. DT won't let you post many. You can Google to your hearts content, the consensus out there right now is that Metro is NOT loved. It's not even liked.

Of course if 49.6% of the Windows user base upgraded, most would consider that a highly successful release

Not really, if you thought about it.

RE: Can't wait
By Belard on 8/1/2012 8:50:06 PM , Rating: 1
Your arguments are valid...

And think about this, the KIND of people who use beta software are techie-types, those who are willing to use the cutting edge. The general population are far worse when it comes to things like this. It'll anger them more-so.

My bet, MS will continue with the metro, force feed it no matter what. Since they are that stupid, I hope Apple desktop market share doubles in 6 months. I hope ChromeOS explodes.

Think about this, if you really don't need Windows Anymore (Metro is the future) why the hell bother with microsoft?

Any computer with a web-browser will work, even a 1992 Amiga will browse the modern web.

RE: Can't wait
By cyberserf on 8/2/2012 7:35:54 AM , Rating: 3
those who like metroOS probably use like 5 apps. they have no clue people actually do work on their PC's and prefer multitasking with an clean deskop

RE: Can't wait
By noirsoft on 8/3/2012 6:06:55 AM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 is both a touchscreen OS and a perfectly usable desktop OS. Just accept that and move on.

RE: Can't wait
By Belard on 8/1/2012 8:41:31 PM , Rating: 1
Metro on the desktop is a dumbshit way of doing things. It didn't solve anything, it didn't improve anything, it didn't make anything better. Its just a change for touch-screen.

Therefore, Metro is pure shit.

It gets old really quick.

RE: Can't wait
By NellyFromMA on 8/2/2012 10:55:56 AM , Rating: 2
Easy solution. Stay on Win 7 best desktop OS around. Make way for Win 8, best mobile OS to be. See, easy solution and no idiotic arguing. Let the consumers decide. Amazing!

RE: Can't wait
By melgross on 8/1/2012 2:47:07 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, before you use it, you just can't wait. There is a very good reason why XP, Vista and Win 7 tablets failed so spectacularly. The Desktop and apps just are barely usable on a tablet. And the smaller the tablet, the less usable they are. It took ten years, and the succes of the iPad for Microsoft to understand that.

Before, the apps that worked were written specially for the tablet. They mostly consisted in warehouse listings apps that used taps into squares as we used to have on the computerized tests in school, and perhaps a signature and maybe a sentence or two written in.

If Microsoft, or users think that you're going to want to use a keyboard and trackpad most of the time, then buy a notebook instead. I wonder just how well those covers will work, as Microsoft made such a big deal of them during the intro, but then refused to allow anyone to try them after saying how well they worked.

RE: Can't wait
By kleinma on 8/1/2012 3:10:39 PM , Rating: 2
They were prototypes. Did Steve Jobs get up on stage and show the first iPhone and then toss it out in the crowd for people to play with? All they need are idiot reporters talking about how something didn't work for it to turn into some stupid PR issue of how "bad" it is because an early prototype had some issue that was probably a known issue and slated for fixing prior to release.

I wouldn't let anyone touch it either.

RE: Can't wait
By Belard on 8/1/2012 9:02:53 PM , Rating: 2
Prototypes? WTF are you talking about? XP, Vista and Win7 tablets devices have been on the market since 2002. They were NOT prototypes. They are/were consumer products.

RE: Can't wait
By geddarkstorm on 8/1/2012 3:23:24 PM , Rating: 2
Surface looks amazing, particularly the Core i5 Ivybridge version. That's the tablet I'd want to get if I could. Though, gotta wait for the reviews to be sure.

RE: Can't wait
By kingmotley on 8/1/2012 4:08:09 PM , Rating: 2
To be fair, if Microsoft changed the blue hued stuff on the desktop to green hued stuff there would be a ton of people up in arms as well. I try to ignore the crazies and judge stuff myself.

RE: Can't wait
By augiem on 8/1/12, Rating: 0
RE: Can't wait
By augiem on 8/2/2012 3:06:39 PM , Rating: 2
I'm entitled to my opinion. I evaluated every beta of Windows 8 and hated it every time. They've given me no reason to upgrade.

RE: Can't wait
By Belard on 8/1/2012 4:13:58 PM , Rating: 2
Long time MS Windows Users have lost their hair a long time ago. we are older... and already pulled.

RE: Can't wait
By rburnham on 8/1/2012 2:51:59 PM , Rating: 2
Or just click the desktop tile. Oh my FINGER!

Seriously though, I have gotten over the initial awkwardness and I am all in. I might even grab a touchscreen to use as a secondary monitor to mirror the desktop just for the fun of it.

RE: Can't wait
By augiem on 8/1/2012 3:11:59 PM , Rating: 2
>> Microsoft account login/Windows Live syncing
>> Xbox Live integration
>> Re-designed and "improved" control panel
>> Charms bar (Yes I have heard of it)
>> Windows Defender built in

These are supposed to be pluses? You and I have very different definitions of "improved". Yuck. I seriously do not like the MS account login.

>> Increased boot speed

This is essentially sleep which Windows Vista/7 already do just fine.

>> Storage spaces

While interesting, I dislike the idea because its yet another layer of abstraction and therefore potential for more problems.

The rest are extremely minor tweaks/improvements. There's nothing in that list that's must have in the least or that will make my daily use any easier or better.

RE: Can't wait
By noirsoft on 8/3/2012 6:15:09 AM , Rating: 2

These are supposed to be pluses? You and I have very different definitions of "improved". Yuck. I seriously do not like the MS account login.

So don't use it. If you are one of the 300+ million people who have a Microsoft account already, using that as a login and having the ability to sync across computers is a huge plus.

This is essentially sleep which Windows Vista/7 already do just fine.

Nope. Increased boot speed from a cold boot.

The rest are extremely minor tweaks/improvements. There's nothing in that list that's must have in the least or that will make my daily use any easier or better.

Your opinion, of course, heavily tempered by the fact that you won't give it a fair trial. Like many people with minds smaller than their mouths, you took one look at Metro and decided that everything about Win8 was bad before you ever tried it, which clearly influences your experience if you have tried it.

RE: Can't wait
By TheJian on 8/7/2012 8:23:04 AM , Rating: 2

I don't use winblows live now...8 won't change that.

A new task manager? I spend so much time in it now...I'm really excited...

xbox live integration? I care why? My bluray player already sees all DLNA etc. and streams any mkv,x264/h264, xvid, divx yada yada...Anything shared on the network is seen by my BD670...Wireless or wired...and I have an xbox and still don't use it as an htpc/media center...No reason to.

storage spaces?...LOL. I'm trying to see the use of this on a desktop. Most users only have ONE drive still (ok, I have 4 in, and 9 out, but I'm not most people), and tying them all together isn't going to be much different than raid or options already in disk management for years.

Windows Defender built in?...LOL@anyone using anything from MS for AV/Firewall protection. Even comodo/zonealarm blows this away (etc...)

Picture or pin login? For what? A 4pin password is a password...Gestures for passwords?...LOL. Whatever. I can type faster than that and good luck seeing it as fast as I type it...I'm trying to see an advantage here...Nope...Can't.

Increased boot speed?...LOL. I boot all day. It's a productivity app I swear. SSD's make this pointless anyway. I boot once a month if that in 7 or xp64 and both happen in seconds not minutes. But wow....ROFL.

Reset/Refresh recovery...I need win8 for that?...LOL. I can't already do that in 1000 ways?

Bootable from USB? So how am I booting from Win7 on flash drives now? Will 8 make that magically delicious or something? Google this for 2 million results:
"windows 7 bootable flash drive" without the quotes if you're not that smart.

USB 3.0 support? So win7 can't do that? How are my 2x3TB Seagate Goflex drives working at 3.0 speeds now? Am I just magical? Even XP works fine with 3.0 at 3.0 speeds...Smoke crack much?

"Vastly" Improved search? Can you prove that? I wouldn't need to SEARCH for my apps if you'd just have left start menu in...LOL. People search 3 times more for apps than files?...ROFL, because you took away the start menu/quick launch morons...I juse my desktop as a quicklaunch now anyway. My most used apps a one click away, just as before...searching just takes another step...That's what the start menu/quicklaunch is/was for...ROFL...dumb/slow. New start search filters etc...LOL. And that's quicker than a quick launched app or start menu click how?

App snapping for multitasking? On tablets I guess this has some merit...But dual monitors/taskbar in win7/xp make this pointless in my view. Who works without dual monitors when two 22's can be had for $250? Myself I have a 24/22. Me and my taskbar can beat you and win8 any day.

Improved control panel? XP list view was already fine. First thing I turned off in win7 was the dumb icon's/category view...LOL. So slow.

Vastly improved copy/paste? You mean it actually works now? ROFL. XYplorer/totalcommander FTW... :) I admit this is truly broken in Win7. Explorer is functionally USELESS in win7. It spends forever calculating or discovering crap that is instant in XP of any version. Not hard to improve on 7. But once you go xyplorer or totalcommander you can't go back to anything less.

Charms bar?...ROFLMAO. Can I pretend I've never heard of it?

File history? And how is this different from any backup app, version history, or system restore? Already have it all...Just a new name to sell me the same thing.
"What you need to know in this regard is that it is only available if an external drive is connected to the computer or if a network location for backups is available, and that only files on local drives can be monitored by the feature."
OK, so it's nothing new and depending on how you look at it, seriously more limiting than before?...ROFL.

Built in PDF reader?...You really get excited over built in 2nd rate crap don't you? No, I don't use acrobat either...LOL. Sumatra etc are far better, faster and lighter.. Heck chrome has pdf built in already...Though chrome to me is kind of like consolizing my pc games...Just consolizing my browser...Firefox is where I live, I don't need my browser experience DUMBED DOWN.

Windows+D is worth killing my start menu? Once click is faster than going to the winkey+d. Quicklaunch is also faster. Going to my desktop is a waste of my time. You just insist on slowing us down eh? Win+D is an improvement how? Raise your hand if you know more than 5 keyboard shortcuts...I don't see many hands raised...LOL. Raise your hand if you WANT to learn keyboard shortcuts instead of clicking your mouse once...Nope, still no hands...

Are we done yet?...LOL. Keep drinking the cool-aide.

Do you actually charge for all this crapola that just slows me down? It's not FREE? So you want to charge me for all this inconvenience? I have to learn all kinds of crap for nothing? Booting from a 4k native drive is the only thing I can see in win8 that's useful and I never plan on booting from a drive that big anyway, not to mention I'll never boot from anything but an SSD ever again unless they die...LOL. I'm trying to understand the excitement but I just can't.

Can you explain it again but say something meaningful this time? How much is microsoft paying you for this crap? Do you work for them?

RE: Can't wait
By 91TTZ on 8/1/2012 2:58:13 PM , Rating: 2
I can't believe they're offering this for $40

That's because they're using Windows 8 as a gateway for desktop users to get hooked on Microsoft's mobile hardware. They're basically giving it away in the hopes that you'll get used to the UI, then want to purchase Surface tablets and Windows phones.

As for using Windows 8 on a desktop, I've tried it and it really is a step down from Windows 7. Windows 7 seemed to be designed for a desktop while Windows 8 really seems like it belongs on a tablet/phone.

RE: Can't wait
By augiem on 8/1/2012 3:43:34 PM , Rating: 2
I have a TON of gripes with Metro, but if they're going to force it on desktop users they could have at least found a way to make it work better with the mouse. Why doesn't a mouse click and drag on the background let you swipe scroll? If they wanted it intuitive they'd have made it function the same with a finger or a mouse. Mouse wheel helps, but its not as intuitive.

It's just such a half a$$ design job.

RE: Can't wait
By Belard on 8/1/2012 4:10:43 PM , Rating: 1
WOW!!! I am pooping in my pants with JOY!!

Maybe I can send it in a bag to Microsoft’s Steven Sinofsky because I am SOOOOOOO excited by the experience.


By Argon18 on 8/1/2012 1:09:05 PM , Rating: 1
There is no compelling reason for anyone, whether private individual, or corporate business, to invest in Windows 8. Heck, most businesses have just barely moved to Windows 7, and many are still on XP.

Windows 8 is one of those versions that everone skips over.

RE: -crickets-
By Labotomizer on 8/1/2012 1:34:32 PM , Rating: 2
I suppose we have different definitions of "compelling reasons". Improved performance? Check. Improved resource management via improved Task Manager? Check. Enterprise grade hypervisor? Check. A better replacement for the start menu? Check.

You probably have a point on enterprise roll out as it's not unusual to skip a release. But that won't stop consumers from adopting Windows 8 in large numbers, although that will mostly be via new purchases. It also is the first OS that demonstrates what MS has been saying since they first released a Tablet PC, that tablets are computers. I can't wait to get my Surface RT on October 26th, which will be given to my daughter in January when the Surface Pro comes out.

RE: -crickets-
By JasonMick on 8/1/2012 1:46:06 PM , Rating: 5
This again?

"Chicago Sun-Times : Want Windows 95? Skip the 1st Version?"
Author: Don Crabb
Date: July 9, 1995

"Windows 98 was not Worth the Wait"
Aug. 1998: Chicago Tribune: Jimmy Gutterman

"Yawns greet Windows XP debut"
Cape Cod Online - Nov. 2001

"Windows XP: Readers: It's not worth the trouble"
CNET - 2001

...nay sayers have been predicting Microsoft's demise for almost two decades now. And what has happened?

Windows 8 looks great. While it may not at first seem a natural fit for businesses, its brilliant in the mobile space, introducing an ultra-intuitive user interface for mobile devices.

The Surface has received rave reviews from almost everyone who has used it.

Of course for someone who spends most of his time brown-nosing for Apple, it does not surprise me that you would find Microsoft's innovation unappealing.

RE: -crickets-
By kleinma on 8/1/2012 2:05:44 PM , Rating: 2
The reason it doesn't make sense for business (yet) is because people have only seen it in a consumer facing product with consumer based live tiles.

I can imagine an enterprise deployment with a tighly controlled start screen making it super easy for users to access just the corporate programs they are supposed to.

It would be nice if MS mocked up what a potential start screen would look like for corp use.

One thing is for sure, MS employs a whole lot of people, and they are an enterprise company, and they will be using Windows 8 on everything, and a good chunk of the company has already been using it for some time.

RE: -crickets-
By melgross on 8/1/2012 2:22:29 PM , Rating: 2
Rave reviews? First of all, until this is released, it won't get a real review. Then you need some actual, useful, finished third party software to evaluate with it. Even Microsoft's own software isn't finished yet. At best, I would call what I've read, a hands on evaluation of a prototype.

I've had a chance to play with the Samsung 11.6" tablet for a short (about 20 minutes) while. I found Metro on the tablet far better than on my tower, where, so far, at least, it can be a horror. But, using the Desktop on the tablet was dreadful. I've seen just a few articles questioning this, where all the others seem to want to skip over this part. But, think about it for a moment. The convertable's that were being sold as tablets failed for at least two reasons. One was that they were much too big and heavy. I could never understand why someone would by one that weighed between 3.5 and 7 pounds, which is what they were weighing.

But the biggest problem was that even on the 15" screens the biggest had, the OS and it's apps we're very difficult to use. I remember hovering over a tiny menu item with the stylus before I tapped it so that it didn't hit the wrong thing. It still hit the wrong thing too often. Sweating while trying to save a document isn't pleasant.

These new tablets have screens between 10.6" for the Surface, to 11.6" for the Samsung. That's much smaller. I found tapping something on the Samsung screen to be frustrating. Touch is out of the question most of the time. Microsoft is trying to force this for Office. I can't even imagine using Excell on this as a Desktop app.

RE: -crickets-
By DiscoWade on 8/1/2012 3:09:57 PM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 looks great.

I was agreeing with you until you said that.

RE: -crickets-
By Belard on 8/1/2012 9:08:42 PM , Rating: 1
Windows 8 looks great. While it may not at first seem a natural fit for businesses, its brilliant in the mobile space, introducing an ultra-intuitive user interface for mobile devices.

Since when has my 26lb desktop and 10lb 24" LCD become a mobile device?

The interface is NOT intuitive, its frustrating to use and design by brain-dead monkeys.

And its butt-ugly too.

RE: -crickets-
By Ammohunt on 8/1/2012 9:12:37 PM , Rating: 2
Funny you didn't post the same about vista or ME....when the nay sayers were right.

RE: -crickets-
By Arsynic on 8/1/2012 2:04:59 PM , Rating: 2
Windows 8's consumer success will drive its enterprise success. When the people at the top want something, they get it!

RE: -crickets-
By melgross on 8/1/2012 3:05:44 PM , Rating: 2
That's true. IF it's a consumer success. It may be, and it may not be. This is a very big change. How many people here really believe that sales people at Best Buy and other retailers will understand this, even after some training? I don't have much hope of that. They are almost useless now.

And think of the confusion between RT and Pro x86 tablets. They will look the same on the screen, and the hardware will be pretty much the same except for a bit more thickness and weight. The difference will be in the price as far as most people will be able to see. What happens when they buy the cheaper RT model, and find it's not actually Windows (Desktop), and so their software won't work on it? The same thing that happened with the first Asus netbooks, when people bought them because they were cheaper, and found they weren't Windows, and so wouldn't run Windows apps. They brought them back.

RE: -crickets-
By augiem on 8/1/2012 6:05:16 PM , Rating: 2
Sadly, it WILL be a consumer success simply because of the fact that it will be bundled with nearly all new PCs sold. Regardless of whether the Surface or any other Win8 tablets are successful, the OS will sell like hotcakes, just like nearly every other Microsoft OS, because of desktop/notebook sales. Even if the likes of Dell, etc give you the option of 7/8, if you don't know any better, you're gonna think ... "8 is better than 7, right? I guess I'll take 8."

RE: -crickets-
By melgross on 8/2/2012 3:19:18 AM , Rating: 2
I judge success as to whether people are buying it because they want it, not because they feel they have no choice.

RE: -crickets-
By augiem on 8/2/2012 3:10:23 PM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately no industry measures success like that. Reality TV? People watch it because that's all that's on. The result? More reality TV is produced. At one point, it was probably successful because people wanted to watch it.

There's no way you can really judge any product like that. How do we know the majority of people bought 95/XP/Vista/7 because they wanted it and not because it was their only choice? With the OS, you have issues like needing to use the newest software and maintaining backward compatibility. In that sense, a long-time Windows user has little choice but to stay with MS and a Mac user to Apple.

RE: -crickets-
By WalksTheWalk on 8/2/2012 1:34:20 PM , Rating: 2
Given your hypothesis, who at the top is wanting Windows 8, and why?

Microsoft doesn't have the connotation of status, sexiness or being part of the "in" or "smart" crowd. Showing off your Windows Phone or Windows 8 machine isn't likely to impress anyone.

I don't see it being driven from the top C-level execs, unless it's a CIO that understands the built in integration with Microsoft infrastructure. But that's a practical argument not an emotional one and won't appeal to anyone at that "show off" level many execs like to operate at.

Time pressure
By melgross on 8/1/2012 2:00:02 PM , Rating: 2
This is the first time that Microsoft has been under so much pressure to have an OS out on time. As we all know, one part of Microsoft's reputation is to have delays, sometimes serious, with most all of their products.

This time, they can't afford to. This is going to mostly be a consumer product, as business has already stated that they haven't interest in this, as they are just now upgrading to 7, or have finished upgrading to 7, and the learning curve for this will be much greater, so a lot of training will be required. Business has been cutting back, and that's not going to happen now.

So if they miss the holiday shopping season they would be in a lot of trouble. I remember when Vista first came out. Some high official (I think it may have been Sinofsky) at Microsoft was asked how many bugs there were left, and he said 68,000. This is a much bigger departure for Microsoft than Vista was. It will be interesting to see if they have it under control or not.

RE: Time pressure
By kleinma on 8/1/2012 2:10:53 PM , Rating: 2
This is actually not as big an update as Vista. On the UI side of things it certainly has more "visual" changes, but the underlying version number of this OS is not 8, it is 6. So was Windows 7, and so was Windows Vista.

This is because Windows 8 is the second iteration of Windows Vista. Most of the underlying tech that was built into windows with vista is still there and improved upon in Windows 8, but at its core, Win8 is much like vista, as it is built right on top.

RE: Time pressure
By melgross on 8/1/12, Rating: 0
RE: Time pressure
By 91TTZ on 8/1/2012 3:22:48 PM , Rating: 3
Vista was taken from Server 2003 after the Longhorn project failed. It wasn't a really big step. They added some features for content, and wrapped some security functions around it. That was the major change from Sever 2003. Then they went overboard in the UI.

This is completely incorrect. Server 2003 was the server version of Windows XP. It had the underpinnings that Windows XP had. It uses the same drivers and if you look at compatibility you'll see that what works for XP works for 2003. They even use the same service packs. The Longhorn project didn't fail. Longhorn was the codename for Vista.

Server 2008 is the server version of Vista. They're both based on the NT 6.0 kernel.

Server 2008 R2 is the server version of Windows 7. They're both based on the NT 6.1 kernel.

Server 2012 is the server version of Windows 8.

RE: Time pressure
By kleinma on 8/1/2012 4:13:22 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah but you are making the mistake of thinking people posting here with their anti MS garbage actually use things like facts when they make their statements.

They make up whatever they need to in order to attempt to prove their point, which is generally not their point, it is the point someone else made that they read and decided to blindly follow.

RE: Time pressure
By 91TTZ on 8/1/2012 3:43:42 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft has announced that they will begin depreciating the Desktop, and that Metro is the future for Windows. That's certainly a major change for them, as it obsoletes everything from before. You're forced into dealing with Metro no matter how much you want to remain with the Desktop. It is what it is, like it or not.

Or it'll backfire on them and they'll drive their desktop-loving customers to Apple.

That would be pretty ironic since the entire idea of this big mobile-centric Metro push was to gain inroads into the mobile space. Their plan is to achieve a common look with their mobile offerings so that their loyal desktop users would buy Windows Phones and Surface tablets instead of iPhones and iPads. Right now Apple is absolutely dominating Microsoft in the mobile space, and it looks like Microsoft is going to abandon the desktop market in an ill-fated attempt to gain mobile users.


What Microsoft wants: Get their loyal desktop users(98% of the desktop market) to adopt the Metro look so they'll eventually come around and buy Microsoft mobile products that also use the Metro UI.

What Microsoft might get: Disenfranchise their loyal Windows desktop users (98% of the market) in an attempt to get users to buy Microsoft mobile products that also use the Metro UI. Those users buy Apple desktops which remind them of the iOS devices they probably already have.

RE: Time pressure
By augiem on 8/1/2012 6:18:13 PM , Rating: 2
MS and Apple are both moving toward the iOS model for desktop and mobile space. Every version of OSX gets more and more iOS-like. Win 8 is just a leap instead of a baby step toward that goal. Ultimately, a single unified platform running content and programs entirely from the cloud is likely the goal for both companies. Google will be the third as soon as they decide to make Android for x86.

The OS's keeps getting cheaper year by year as these companies prepare for the future that you no longer sell people an OS but rather make your money from sales of digital goods and providing cloud services for them to do all their "stuff" at home, work, or on the go.

RE: Time pressure
By kingmotley on 8/1/2012 4:20:48 PM , Rating: 2
Just about everything you said is wrong. Vista wasn't taken from Server 2003. The longhorn project is what became Vista. There was a lot more involved with the Vista changes than just "some features for content" and wrapping some security functions. Like, prioritized I/O, and granular task manager, and completely rewritten display and network stacks. Many didn't like Vista at it's release, but it was an awesome product that got the bad end of some press. Granted there were some issues, but mostly minor ones, and some poor driver support. Once the 3rd party vendors got around to delivering decent drivers, Vista ran very well. More stable than XP and more resiliant/responsive under load.

In comparison, Windows 7 was small tweaks and some minor UI changes.

RE: Time pressure
By melgross on 8/2/2012 2:40:54 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, everything I said is correct.

Microsoft redirected development of Vista to the Server 2003 code base. To say that they continued to use the NAME Longhorn afterwards, as the project wound down prior to the release of Vista, would be correct. But the project that began as Longhorn was essentially abandoned after they finished flinging the major features away.

This is pretty well known, as was discussed on virtually every site. Even Wiki has it in their article. Just read down to the third paragraph:

Another article about this has Microsoft stopping a project based on that Longhorn code base. It also describes that Vista had moved to Server 2003.

I can find a lot more article's if you want me too. They're all over the place.

Also very excited!
By jharper12 on 8/1/2012 7:38:42 PM , Rating: 1
I was all on-board to get an ultra book this year with the new Intel Ivy Bridge architecture, and I was on the fence about waiting for Windows 8. Then Microsoft came out with Surface, and I'm considering going with a Pro tablet and keyboard dock instead. I use a 11.6" screen now, so I wouldn't notice much of a difference. Really a tough call honestly. I considered moving to a 13.3 or 14" screen... now I'm not sure. Regardless, woo Windows 8!

RE: Also very excited!
By melgross on 8/2/2012 2:48:37 PM , Rating: 2
If your intention is to use a keyboard with trackpad, why bother with the tablet at all? The Surface will have a 10.6" screen. If you don't need Desktop apps, then get RT, which won't be able to run them.

But if you're going to use the Desktop much, or most of the time, you'll find that the small screen isn't conducive to the tiny menu items you'll find. So you'll be using a keyboard, touchpad AND a stylus at the same time. If you don't want the stylus to use the screen with, why would you want a tablet at all?

RE: Also very excited!
By noirsoft on 8/3/2012 6:09:43 AM , Rating: 2
Under what circumstances would one use a keyboard, touchpad and stylus simultaneously? Under what circumstances would the user have the 3-4 hands necessary to do so?

What does the full version cost?
By Assimilator87 on 8/1/2012 2:27:31 PM , Rating: 2
The only pricing info I can find is for the upgrade. Has MS released the price for full versions?

By Belard on 8/1/2012 9:11:45 PM , Rating: 2
There will be NO full retail versions.

And high on the rumor mill: No OEM single user licences either. You'd have to buy the 5-user pack at $500+.

By cyberserf on 8/2/2012 7:06:43 AM , Rating: 2
Why would a company that has 90%+ OS market share make something usable for the 5% of the population who use maybe like 5 apps?
just insane. this will fail big just watch.

By OmarF1 on 8/3/2012 8:09:00 AM , Rating: 2
I want a PC operating system, win8 isn't.
I really hope they fail with it more than Vista did, they even decreased the prices to reduce the failure rate.

good luck
By SPOOOK on 8/1/2012 4:35:56 PM , Rating: 1
good luck with this garbage i dont want it for free this will lead to ms downfall bigtime

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