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Print 128 comment(s) - last by superstition.. on Nov 17 at 5:40 PM


Mac lusts for PC's Blu-Ray ability.  (Source: Microsoft via YouTube)

Mac also seems to fantasize that he and PC are the female and male protagonists of Avatar.  (Source: Microsoft via YouTube)
"It's Blu-Ray -- it's built in," PC to awestruck Mac

For all the things Macs lack -- pre-installed FlashUSB 3.0, Blu-ray, and more -- you'd think that'd there'd be more clever commercials from Microsoft taking a jab at their fruity competitor.  While commercials like Laptop Hunters hinted at such things, they didn't just lay it out there.

Fortunately for Microsoft that's exactly what its new commercial does.  

In the commercial Mac and PC (laptops, not "guys", mind you) are flying aboard an airplane (conveniently named Windows 7).   As the pair settle in the PC fires up a Blu-ray movie --
Avatar.  Mac is awestruck.

"What is that?"

PC nonchalantly responds, "Oh it's Blu-Ray, it's built in -- you want to watch?"

Hesitant Mac ends of being sucked in to the awe of HD movies as he fantasizes of himself and PC as the female and male protagonists of 
Avatar.  Needless to say he ends up watching the whole film.

(We're not positive on this one, but the commercial may also have been making fun of the MacBook aluminum unibody cases' tendency to collect dust and grime, as the stewardess ask the Mac if it needs a dusting.)

So is it fair for Microsoft to be making fun of Apple's Blu-ray incompetence?

After all, on the one hand the standard is still very young.  While Blu-ray movies are becoming pretty ubiquitous, they're still more expensive (generally) than DVDs, and not everyone even has a Blu-ray player yet.

On the other hand, for a brand that brags about its media savvy, it seems odd to not to give customers access to the highest-quality video discs out there.  And the commercial isn't quite as in your face as the old "Get a Mac" spots -- it's more cartoony and cute.



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pretty funny.
By Luticus on 11/12/2010 2:24:35 PM , Rating: 5
I thought it was pretty funny... at least it was true. :)




RE: pretty funny.
By Souka on 11/12/2010 2:31:54 PM , Rating: 5
Yes, a true ad.

If Microsoft were to make an add like Apple does, they'd be sued, or at the very least blasted for making a slander advertisement.

I never understood why Apple can outright lie in its ads, yet not be in trouble for doing so.


RE: pretty funny.
By Luticus on 11/12/2010 2:34:36 PM , Rating: 3
It's the Jobs mind trick.

"You love mac" *waves hand*

:P


RE: pretty funny.
By dgingeri on 11/12/2010 2:39:38 PM , Rating: 5
Those tricks only work on the weak minded...


RE: pretty funny.
By priusone on 11/12/10, Rating: 0
RE: pretty funny.
By ClownPuncher on 11/12/2010 2:52:33 PM , Rating: 5
You accidentally used a sarcasm tag there.


RE: pretty funny.
By Helbore on 11/15/2010 12:15:46 PM , Rating: 2
In separate news, the government released a new report today detailing the overall decline in education standards for the general population.


RE: pretty funny.
By lainofthewired on 11/12/2010 7:08:49 PM , Rating: 2
Needs a 6.


RE: pretty funny.
By BWAnaheim on 11/12/2010 8:01:10 PM , Rating: 3
Or on a Kinect. :-)


RE: pretty funny.
By DominionSeraph on 11/14/2010 8:06:12 PM , Rating: 1
Po pi po pi po po pi po
Po pi po pi po po pi po

When Miku decides you like vegetable juice, there's just no fighting it. Your 200 yen is as good as gone.


RE: pretty funny.
By Denigrate on 11/12/2010 2:39:49 PM , Rating: 2
Mind trick? I suppose you could call having a legion of less than savy buyers a mind trick.

Besides, flaws and missing standards are features that allow you to feel superior.


RE: pretty funny.
By geekman1024 on 11/12/2010 9:32:52 PM , Rating: 3
Steve,quit waving your hand like a freaking Jedi!


RE: pretty funny.
By Ammohunt on 11/12/2010 3:40:12 PM , Rating: 2
becasue the are just like the elitists that typically use Macs.


RE: pretty funny.
By geekman1024 on 11/12/2010 9:34:17 PM , Rating: 2
and apparently, you are not using a Mac. What you need is a spell checker.


RE: pretty funny.
By dark matter on 11/13/2010 4:42:10 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah, because only Mac's have a spell checker.


RE: pretty funny.
By cruisin3style on 11/13/10, Rating: -1
RE: pretty funny.
By Spivonious on 11/12/10, Rating: 0
RE: pretty funny.
By RjBass on 11/12/2010 2:58:52 PM , Rating: 5
No it doesn't, your right. But any laptop from a big box manufacturer that has a blu-ray drive in it is also going to come with the intended blu-ray player software. That is just a given, but in the event that they don't, HP, Dell, Sony, Toshiba, Acer, Asus and all the rest are going to have a pretty tough time fending off angry customers.


RE: pretty funny.
By viewwin on 11/12/2010 3:00:43 PM , Rating: 2
Good, I wasn't the only one that caught the "Blu ray support built in" lie.


RE: pretty funny.
By PAPutzback on 11/12/10, Rating: 0
RE: pretty funny.
By namechamps on 11/12/2010 4:04:54 PM , Rating: 3
VLC only plays back ripped Bluray files.

I doubt Apple is going to respond that consumers can simply install an unsupported bluray drive, install some DMCA ifringing supports, rip bluray files to disc, then load up VLC and watch the movie.

By that logic Mac support Bluray because you can run a bittorrent client on Mac and download ripped movies.


RE: pretty funny.
By The Raven on 11/15/2010 11:44:34 AM , Rating: 2
MS's Xbox HD-DVD drives work on Macs from what I've read.
<irony police turn their badges in>

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7385786_do-xbox-hd_dvd-d...


RE: pretty funny.
By tastyratz on 11/15/2010 2:19:55 PM , Rating: 2
Well there is your answer.
You certainly cant expect a mac to support any new modern standard whether it be blu ray, usb3, or sata 6gb.

but it sure is shiny.


RE: pretty funny.
By bfellow on 11/15/2010 4:18:22 PM , Rating: 2
Apple is (still) on the BDA while Microsoft was supporting HD-DVD with its Xbox 360. It is ironic they are on opposite sides of the fence now the HD disc wars have ended.


RE: pretty funny.
By name99 on 11/15/2010 5:13:47 PM , Rating: 2
Which is why Apple partnering with Intel is the prime mover behind LightPeak?
And is doing every bit as much as MS to try to main-stream parallel programming?
And pushed computing on GPUs earlier and further than MS?
And designed and shipped AltiVec which remains, even today, vastly more elegant and capable than SSE 4.2 or whatever Intel is up to now?
And shipped multi-touch in usable form, first in phones, then on trackpads, way before the Windows world?

Meanwhile your forward-looking world held onto floppies for 10 years past their sell-by date, is still stuck with BIOS rather than EFI (how are those 3TB drives working out for you?), and, in this very thread, is defending optical storage --- a technology that is where floppies were fifteen years ago --- clearly on its way out.


RE: pretty funny.
By The Raven on 11/16/2010 10:21:37 AM , Rating: 2
Well cited everyone-should-know-this-by-now data from Wikipedia...
quote:
In 1983, Bell Labs at Murray Hill published a comprehensive discussion of touch-screen based interfaces.[9] In 1984, Bell Labs engineered a touch screen that could change images with more than one hand. In 1985, the University of Toronto group including Bill Buxton developed a multi-touch tablet that used capacitance rather than bulky camera-based optical sensing systems.[5] A breakthrough occurred in 1991, when Pierre Wellner published a paper on his multi-touch “Digital Desk”, which supported multi-finger and pinching motions.[10][11] Various companies expanded upon these inventions in the beginning of the twenty-first century. Mainstream exposure to multi-touch technology occurred in 2007 when the iPhone gained popularity, with Apple stating they 'invented multi touch' as part of the iPhone announcement,[12] however both the function and the term predate the announcement or patent requests. Publication and demonstration using the term Multi-touch by Jefferson Y. Han in 2005 predates these.[13]

Its not that M$ or anyone else's tech wasn't usable. There was no percieved market for it. I personally owned a tablet and I don't think I would ever have used multitouch had it been available. The reason was that I had a stylus in one hand that I would write with. Now Apple was the first one to say, "This could be beneficial on a phone, where people don't want to pull out a stylus!" and was the first to be successful marketing the tech. Somebody had to be first. I guess you could say that Apple deserves credit for multitouch as much as MS deserves credit for their GUI. (Tell any macinwashed individual that and their head might explode.)

And how forward thinking is Apple if MS was using tablet/touchscreen technology in the 80's while Apple just came out with their first one?

quote:
Meanwhile your forward-looking world held onto floppies for 10 years past their sell-by date, is still stuck with BIOS rather than EFI (how are those 3TB drives working out for you?), and, in this very thread, is defending optical storage --- a technology that is where floppies were fifteen years ago --- clearly on its way out.
This is the comment of a tech head (which I guess I am too). The rest of the consumers out there actually used floppies way past their heyday. I'm sure you could find someone trying to use one today lol. But whatever. Unlike Apple, the rest of the PC world allows people to use whatever tech (be it new or old) that they want to. That is the problem with Apple not supporting BD. I don't want to use BD myself (and FYI I was rooting for HD-DVD during the war) but if people want to use it, they should be able to.

Personally I don't understand it as a business move. Why as the HW retailer, would you not allow an upgrade like a BD player (or even a HD-DVD drive if you have some laying around out back lol) if your customer wanted it? Even it would be a stupid buying choice. You'd easily pick up a bigger profit from newer tech. And we all know that most Apple customers (how should I say) aren't afraid to spend money.

quote:
defending optical storage --- a technology that is [...] clearly on its way out.

Umm... last I checked, MacBooks still had DVD drives in them.

Look, this isn't a comment that is meant to just refute everything you said. I'm just saying that there is no do-everything, or do-everything-right company out there.

The fact that Apple doesn't support BD is laughable. Does that make them a laughable company? No. Don't take offense. They have contributed to the PC that we know and love just like any other company. But this article is about BD.


RE: pretty funny.
By robinthakur on 11/17/2010 7:51:04 AM , Rating: 2
A good, non fanboi retort, duly noted. I personally think that Apple are reluctant to encourage BD take-up because their future business model is based on subscription and rental purchases via iTunes, and BD quality is currently exponentially better than what can be streamed over most net connections. I greatly suspect that DVD is included on Mac, only with BC in mind, to enable windows dual boot to be installed and mostly to make HD rentals look good. You can see with the dvd-less MBA the way it is going ("The future of Macbooks") The fact that no software exists and that no compatible drives exist (to my knowledge, in the consumer space or otherwise) for BD supports this, though I don't really see how Apple can do business in the high end HD video editing stakes without it, unless that is mostly hard disk based.

Apple are silently fighting the same battle which they do against Flash, albeit slightly less vocally to take out a technology which they deem 'undesirable' in their ecosystem. There is simply no other explanation given how quickly they started shipping Macs with CD, DVD and DVD-R drives back in the 90's. They want the Mac users (who most definitely are not afraid of spending money and probably already own bluray players if they deem them important) to influence general opinion amongst computer buyers as to whether BD drives are even necessary.

Apple are very good at marketing tech. and packaging it to be used by the general public, which people might previously have been exposed to but not seen as a killer feature or even one which they knew how to use. It's very easy to forget quite how revolutionary the touch interface for the iPhone was at the time, with pinch to zoom, momentum based scrolling, swipes etc I remember thinking that I'd owned touch screen phones before from HTC and they were finicky, unresponsive and basically not very human-usable.

I was initally sceptical of the iPhone before I used one. From the moment I swiped to unlock, you knew that this was a touch interface like no other and that Apple had combined hardware with its software to create a unique and polished user experience. Whilst MS had tablet technology in the 80's, I'm reminded of Dr Strangelove's "What's the point of a doomsday weapon if nobody knows about it?!?"


RE: pretty funny.
By nafhan on 11/12/2010 3:14:52 PM , Rating: 2
Technically, Win 7 supports the use of Blu-ray discs it just doesn't come with codec support for movies. So, it does support Blu-ray out of the box. It's kind of like Win XP needing a third party codec to do DVD movies.
Realistically, watching Blu-ray movies is about the only thing anyone's going to do with a Blu-ray drive at this point. So, claiming to support Blu-ray is a little disingenuous.


RE: pretty funny.
By Smilin on 11/12/2010 3:38:43 PM , Rating: 2
I see.

So it works on a mac then?


RE: pretty funny.
By StevoLincolnite on 11/12/2010 3:59:28 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
So it works on a mac then?


I see this question asked to often at random places on the web.
I thought the entire point in buying a Mac was for it to "Just Work"?


RE: pretty funny.
By The Raven on 11/15/2010 11:58:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Realistically, watching Blu-ray movies is about the only thing anyone's going to do with a Blu-ray drive at this point. So, claiming to support Blu-ray is a little disingenuous.

Well if that is true, then this commercial is a complete joke because the benefit of a BD is lost on a 17" screen at comfortable viewing distances regardless of your resolution.

But I guess they couldn't have a Mac talking to a Win7 machine if they were hooked up to 40" 1080p displays. I mean who would have two screens like that hooked up within speaking distance in the same room tied to 2 different OSs?


RE: pretty funny.
By The Raven on 11/15/2010 12:00:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But I guess they couldn't have a Mac talking to a Win7 machine if they were hooked up to 40" 1080p displays. I mean who would have two screens like that hooked up within speaking distance in the same room tied to 2 different OSs?

Oh I just solved my own problem I suppose. Just have the Win7 machine call the Mac and talk about how he is watching a BD and having the time of his life lol.


RE: pretty funny.
By foolsgambit11 on 11/12/2010 3:38:02 PM , Rating: 5
Well, the PC only says, "It's Blu-Ray, it's built in." I'll admit, the less-than-savvy consumer may think that means that Blu-Ray video playback is a feature of Windows 7, when in fact it only means that there exist PCs wherein a Blu-Ray drive is included internally. Lucky for those less-than-savvy consumers, if they buy a PC with a built-in BD drive, they'll get a program to play Blu-Ray movies as well, so they won't even know they were in error.

As for Macs, they currently only 'support' Blu-Ray movie playback by ripping the content from a drive first (someone correct me if this has changed - it was true the last time I checked). I'm not 100% sure why - maybe it's an HDCP issue or a licensing issue? Just this summer, Steve Jobs commented that Apple has no intention of including BD movie support in the near future, either, arguing internet content will make Blu-Ray obsolete.

Now please excuse me while I go back to watching a Blu-Ray movie on my PC laptop with Blu-Ray 'built-in'.


RE: pretty funny.
By Reclaimer77 on 11/12/2010 9:26:26 PM , Rating: 3
Picky much? I know there are lots of retards out there, but I find it hard to believe there are people who would be lead to believe Blu-Ray is an exclusive feature of Windows 7.

Commercials aren't five minutes you know, there isn't a whole lot of time to explain this stuff. Why complicate the issue? It's simple, on a Windows PC you can watch Blu-Ray, on an Apple you can't. The ways and means it's delivered don't matter to the end user.

After all, Blu-Ray on Windows "just works", right? :)


RE: pretty funny.
By dark matter on 11/13/2010 4:46:57 AM , Rating: 2
That's too funny Reclaimer,

Go back and read his comment again. I had to read it twice to get the gist of what he was saying. When you read it again, it's pretty funny to see you attempt to argue against him when in fact you're arguing with him.

I realise not everyone will get his post, but it sure brings out the trolls and its so funny because they don't even realise they are not arguing against him


RE: pretty funny.
By Reclaimer77 on 11/13/2010 8:24:19 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I had to read it twice to get the gist of what he was saying.


Okay so you're admitted you DID have to read it twice. Why be so judgmental then? Maybe I didn't have time to read it twice?

Kudos on him for being super subtle, but I don't think it's fair to call me a troll. I honestly debated him on, what I thought, were the merits of his post.


RE: pretty funny.
By foolsgambit11 on 11/15/2010 2:36:33 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry if my point wasn't clear. Sometimes I know what I'm trying to say, but it doesn't actually come out as clearly as I'd like it. You know the thing - when you reread something you've written, but because you know exactly what you mean to say, you don't notice that it's a little convoluted.


RE: pretty funny.
By MeesterNid on 11/12/2010 3:30:48 PM , Rating: 2
I think I've used the optical drive in my laptop a grand total of like 5 times in the past 3 years. The reason Apple doesn't make a jump to Blu-ray, in my opinion, is that they see very little future left in the optical medium, period.

Now the argument could be made that they still include a DVD drive in the current line of PCs, but adding new hardware requires QA, drivers, software, testing, etc...money.

In the end I'd rather see better/more SSD adoption and availability of high bandwidth internet connectivity instead of optical media support.


RE: pretty funny.
By Reclaimer77 on 11/12/2010 4:32:10 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I think I've used the optical drive in my laptop a grand total of like 5 times in the past 3 years.


But you did use it, and it was there for you when you used it. And what would you have had to go through if it wasn't there when you needed it?

quote:
The reason Apple doesn't make a jump to Blu-ray, in my opinion, is that they see very little future left in the optical medium, period.


Well isn't that a nice excuse for keeping profit margins as high as possible. Blu-Ray is fairly new, and it's already a multi billion dollar industry. Not to mention standard DVD and CD medium. How can there be "very little" future left for optical medium? Maybe, MAYBE, in 5 years we'll see flash memory get to the price point where we can talk about phasing out optical medium.

quote:
In the end I'd rather see better/more SSD adoption and availability of high bandwidth internet connectivity instead of optical media support.


How in the hell are these mutually exclusive? If you don't think there will always be a demand for physical media, in some form or another, you're nuts.


RE: pretty funny.
By Pirks on 11/12/10, Rating: -1
RE: pretty funny.
By Reclaimer77 on 11/12/2010 5:19:23 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks nowhere in his argument did he specify internal or external optical. And using external optical is STILL using optical.


RE: pretty funny.
By Pirks on 11/12/10, Rating: -1
RE: pretty funny.
By Reclaimer77 on 11/12/2010 5:47:28 PM , Rating: 3
He's clearly talking about the disc format itself. The use of disks, hence, OPTICAL.

This isn't some discussion about the Mac Book Air and it's lack of optical. I have no idea why you're trying to turn it into one.


RE: pretty funny.
By Pirks on 11/12/10, Rating: -1
RE: pretty funny.
By Alexstarfire on 11/12/2010 7:33:08 PM , Rating: 4
You, Reader1, and Tony Swash seem to lack the understanding of the meaning of context. In the very next sentence he talks about optical media in general.

One could certainly argue the usefulness of an internal optical drive, but one rarely, if ever, argues that optical drives are completely useless. Even Apple seems to realize this since even the Macbook Air has the ability to use the optical drive in another Mac.

The problem, as with all Mac products, I see is that you don't even have an option.


RE: pretty funny.
By Boze on 11/12/2010 9:28:14 PM , Rating: 2
Ironically the Macheads and jumping to the defensive on YouTube as well.

The bottom line is that 25 - 50 GB of storage on a disc is still a lot. Another 3 to 5 years and I imagine Blu-ray will supplant DVD technology altogether. Any new console that comes out will use Blu-ray, that'll help spur adoption in the coming years as well. Blu-ray burners are getting cheaper every quarter, we just need the media to take a nosedive as well, since that's where the real expense is.

Now if someone can make a huge leap in technology to allow for 250 GB discs, then I'd be really impressed with optical.


RE: pretty funny.
By farquaid on 11/13/2010 9:25:47 AM , Rating: 2
I must agree with reclaimer on this one. There will be need for optical media for quite some time.
I bought a blueray rewriter a couple of months ago and i havent used it a lot. I bought a few movies and rented a couple of others. I ripped them all to the harddriver for ease of use and load them from there. But i will need the drive as soon as i want a new movie.
So far there are no alternatives to the quality blueray offers here in sweden. I think all legal streaming/downloading options are DVD-quality. Illegal 1080p movies have pretty good quality but if i want something to keep i want it to be perfect quality.

But i probably represent 1% of the population or less in this case. The population who uses a htpc with blueray drive to watch movies on a projector.

Blueray support on a laptop is a different matter though. A 17" screen doesnt do blueray any justice. So the blueray support for laptops is just a waste unless you connect your laptop to a projector or 50"+ screen.


RE: pretty funny.
By bug77 on 11/13/2010 7:22:32 AM , Rating: 2
Haha! You just blew your cover Steve. Because only the Steve knows what other people mean. Even when they don't.


RE: pretty funny.
By name99 on 11/15/2010 5:17:30 PM , Rating: 2
"But you did use it, and it was there for you when you used it. And what would you have had to go through if it wasn't there when you needed it?
"

Uhh, go to Amazon/Frys/eBay/Craigslist and buy a USB optical drive for $30?
Then plug it into the mac and start ripping/burning?


RE: pretty funny.
By Aibo on 11/13/2010 5:58:12 PM , Rating: 4
Apple is all about if we don't have it, you don't need it. Once we have it, it's the greatest thing ever made even others have been doing it for sometime.

If you like the best possible video and audio quality movies, Blu-ray is all you can get. Forget all those hypes of HD streaming video. The picture quality is so heavily compressed and the audio has barely reached Dolby Digital 5.1.

So, if you want to watch Blu-ray movies on the laptop, having a Mac simply doesn't have it unless you go the ripping route. Even then, the largest hard drive can't store that many Blu-ray movies unless you want to heavily the quality down.

But whatever I said, Mac fanboys will continue to believe Apple's decision, don't have it, don't need it.


RE: pretty funny.
By name99 on 11/15/2010 5:27:28 PM , Rating: 2
So your argument is what? That Apple should support BR because it is the "best quality" video delivery option?

This was what music companies said 10 years ago: no-one wants mp3s because CDs are higher quality audio. And you know what? The average person values convenience vastly more than they value some sort of mythical "superior quality".

Apple feels it can do just fine by providing a solution that matches the desires of most people. If your needs are very different from most people, admit that, and accept that you will have to seek a specialized solution --- don't whine, lie, and pretend that your hierarchy of values matches that of the rest of the world.

I, for example, use LyX and LaTeX all the time. It would be immensely convenient for me if Apple just included these in the base OS --- and, heck, if they provided programmers to work on LyX and fix its many bugs. But I don't delude myself into imagining this is a sensible use of Apple's resources; instead I accept the world as it is, and download and install a new TeX Live distro manually every year.


RE: pretty funny.
By Reclaimer77 on 11/12/2010 4:21:01 PM , Rating: 3
Yes it is true, and funny :)

But seriously:

quote:
So is it fair for Microsoft to be making fun of Apple's Blu-ray incompetence? After all, on the one hand the standard is still very young. While Blu-ray movies are becoming pretty ubiquitous, they're still more expensive (generally) than DVDs, and not everyone even has a Blu-ray player yet.


This isn't 2008. Even I, who was not a fan of the Blu-Ray format at first, has to admit that it's far from being "new".

The biggest problem with Blu-Ray, in my opinion, is that it launched without having any traditional set top DVD models available. You were pretty much forced into the PS3. Which didn't jive with those who just wanted to watch movies on their TV, the PS3 isn't even compatible out of the box with universal remotes.

Secondly, of course, was the cost. Thankfully $40 dollar Blu-Ray's are a thing of the past, and quality set top players are now available that aren't a small fortune.

So, and again this is coming from a staunch former Blu-Ray hater, I think Microsoft is being more than fair. And Apple, again, should feel shamed.


RE: pretty funny.
By mckinney on 11/12/2010 5:21:09 PM , Rating: 2
I dont understand your point. Should MS feel shamed for not including it in their entertainment console? Xbox is hooked into Netflix for streaming media, and I am sure that it is for a reason. Apple is hooked into Itunes for the same reason. Both want to sell video rentals.


RE: pretty funny.
By Reclaimer77 on 11/12/2010 5:26:59 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Should MS feel shamed for not including it in their entertainment console?


The Xbox is a game console. With some media entertainment built in. But just because Sony built their console around Blu-Ray doesn't mean Microsoft must now be compelled to.

You're comparing Apple to oranges here. I think you DO understand my point, you just don't like it.

Again, I refuse to accept this double standard. If Apple can fly off half cocked and slam Microsoft with outright lies and phony commercials, then I think Microsoft is well within their rights to point out the simple fact that your Apple will NEVER enjoy the premier high definition video format.


RE: pretty funny.
By mckinney on 11/12/10, Rating: -1
RE: pretty funny.
By Alexstarfire on 11/12/2010 7:45:58 PM , Rating: 3
Kinda think he meant just the PS3. MS obviously didn't have support for it since both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray were mad expensive when the 360 came out. Which was a year before the PS3 came out in case you forgot. The cost would have been astronomical.


RE: pretty funny.
By mckinney on 11/12/10, Rating: -1
RE: pretty funny.
By Reclaimer77 on 11/12/2010 7:29:26 PM , Rating: 5
You know what man, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't laptops in the commercial and not consoles?

All of your posts are the classic moving the goalposts fallacy. And I'm tired of continuing it. This was a WINDOWS commercial, not a MICROSOFT commercial. They are making the point that Windows 7 PC's and laptops support Blu-Ray and Apple doesn't. Why are we talking about the Xbox and PS3 so much??

Microsoft Windows and Xbox divisions are entirely separate anyway. You're trying to move the argument to a place where you can associate some twisted form of double standard across a company wide portfolio where none exists.

quote:
Your just MS bias. No news here.


And you're impartial? Please. For all the reasons I pointed out, and more, you're just as biased.


RE: pretty funny.
By adiposity on 11/15/2010 12:56:04 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you. This is about laptops and not consoles. And one division has little to do with the other.

On the other hand, it is a bit ironic to hear Microsoft (of any division) touting Blu-ray support, after having backed the competing format in the past (and continuing to deny xbox owners any way of playing blu-ray on their 1080 capable boxes).


RE: pretty funny.
By mckinney on 11/12/2010 5:11:04 PM , Rating: 2
Since XBox doesnt support BR, I wonder if Sony will do this back to microsoft.


RE: pretty funny.
By Smilin on 11/15/2010 10:12:35 AM , Rating: 2
They have been for years. The gripe just doesn't resonate enough with consumers.


So much for the moral high ground
By Taft12 on 11/12/2010 2:37:56 PM , Rating: 2
Physical media has nothing to do with Apple's long-term plans for media market domination. They would rather you buy a digital copy through iTunes.

Apple has a great counter-zinger opportunity however if they product an ad that pokes fun at the Xbox 360 partnering up with HD-DVD back in the HD media format war days.




RE: So much for the moral high ground
By sviola on 11/12/2010 2:43:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple has a great counter-zinger opportunity however if they product an ad that pokes fun at the Xbox 360 partnering up with HD-DVD back in the HD media format war days


I don't think it would be wise for them to do that. The counter-counter-zinger would be harder on them if MS would talk about Apple's failure in the console market.


RE: So much for the moral high ground
By Guspaz on 11/12/2010 2:56:47 PM , Rating: 2
I'd agree that the Pippin was a much bigger embarrassment than the HD-DVD drive.


RE: So much for the moral high ground
By DuctTapeAvenger on 11/12/2010 2:44:37 PM , Rating: 2
Not really a counter-zinger. Microsoft just plays for both teams to get all the hot HD action it can get. Apple is stuck in the past in standard definition. It just helps make Apple look old and boring.


By killerroach on 11/12/2010 3:28:42 PM , Rating: 3
Apple can do HD... well, if you download their crappily-encoded 720p videos from the iTunes Store that cost about as much as a physical Blu-Ray movie...


By captainobvious on 11/12/2010 2:49:23 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
So much for the moral high ground...


Pass me some of whatever you're smoking because I saw nothing immoral about this commercial. It was both funny and true, the latter of which you can't say about the majority of Apple's commercials.

quote:
Physical media has nothing to do with Apple's long-term plans for media market domination. They would rather you buy a digital copy through iTunes.


Ah the great Jobs "you can't have that technology as we are making something better excuse". I don't even blame Apple so much for not supporting Flash, Blu-Ray, USB 3. I blame the customers that buy the garbage that is Apple's defective products and dictatorial policies. Apple is brilliant
quote:
So much for the moral high ground...


Pass me some of whatever you're smoking because I saw nothing immoral about this commercial. It was both funny and true, the latter of which you can't say about the majority of Apple's commercials.

quote:
Physical media has nothing to do with Apple's long-term plans for media market domination. They would rather you buy a digital copy through iTunes.


Ah the great Jobs "you can't have that technology as we are making something better" excuse. I don't even blame Apple so much for not supporting Flash, Blu-Ray, USB 3. I blame the customers that buy the garbage that is Apple's defective products and dictatorial policies. Apple is brilliant. It charges its customers exorbitant prices for defect-prone obsolete products. That's very smart. It's the customer who buys that junk that is dumb.

quote:
Apple has a great counter-zinger opportunity however if they product an ad that pokes fun at the Xbox 360 partnering up with HD-DVD back in the HD media format war days.


Ha nice try. Too bad back then there was no clear winner in the format war. Now there is -- Blu-Ray.

Apple isn't failing to back Blu-Ray because it has a better technology. It's failing to back it so it can raise the profit margins on its junky hardware.


RE: So much for the moral high ground
By Nutzo on 11/12/10, Rating: 0
RE: So much for the moral high ground
By lecanard on 11/12/2010 5:41:41 PM , Rating: 2
I doubt 1080P rips actually have all the detail of the Blu-ray disc. Having the same resolution doesn't mean the fine details haven't been compressed into oblivion. Do they have 7.1 sound? I've never tried one.


By sprockkets on 11/12/2010 7:05:34 PM , Rating: 2
You may need a 9GB rip, and the sound is 7.1 dts, not lossless or uncompressed.

But download a bt rip and see for yourself. I have both Star Trek on BD and the rip. They look the same on my HD tv.


RE: So much for the moral high ground
By Aibo on 11/13/2010 6:05:20 PM , Rating: 2
720/1080p Blu-ray movies that still look as good when compressed down to 9GB are the poor picture and sound movies to begin with.

Take the best looking and sound quality movies on Blu-ray and see if they still look and sound as good when compressed down to 9GB. Also, the bonus materials take additional space. Basically, trying to say 9GB is good enough to store blu-ray movies mean you can to choose poorly quality movies. At the same time, saying all 1080p Blu-ray movies look and sound the best is also false.

I understand there are still many movie viewers who think heavily compressed picture is good enough and Dolby Digital 5.1 sounds good enough.


By Reclaimer77 on 11/12/2010 5:07:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
They would rather you buy a digital copy through iTunes.


Lol yeah, hey buddy I'll wake you up when that 50gig Blu-Ray download is finished. The rest of us will just be in the other room, you know, actually WATCHING the movie.

quote:
Apple has a great counter-zinger opportunity however if they product an ad that pokes fun at the Xbox 360 partnering up with HD-DVD back in the HD media format war days.


Well that would fit perfectly with all their previous anti-Microsoft adds. And by that I mean, bringing up ancient history that has no bearing on today's end user.


RE: So much for the moral high ground
By Solandri on 11/12/2010 5:47:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Physical media has nothing to do with Apple's long-term plans for media market domination. They would rather you buy a digital copy through iTunes.

I actually agree with Apple's move to put software onto USB/flash drives instead of CD/DVD. But ignoring the standard format that HD movies are released in is pretty short-sighted.

To buy into the "you can get HD content over the net" argument, you have to assume people have a network connection which can download a 1-5 GB movie in a reasonable amount of time, and that their ISP doesn't cap their monthly data consumption at something close to that. Sadly, due to the poor state of broadband in the U.S., I don't see Netflix and iTunes overcoming those problems for another 5 years at least. That's almost 3 generations in the computer industry, which is pretty close to forever. Netflix's HD streaming quality is fine for a one-shot viewing. But if you're going to pay for a permanent copy of a movie, people are gonna look at that and bluray and pick bluray.


RE: So much for the moral high ground
By Targon on 11/12/2010 10:31:20 PM , Rating: 2
There is a very simple reason why BluRay will continue to get support, and that is copyright. USB flash drives won't have any way to really lock the content against a copy, and that makes for a very bad way to release commercial movie releases.

With network connectivity, there is far too much potential for playback errors as well when you are looking at a 1920x1080 video stream.

Apple just doesn't want to stay on top of what the industry is doing, because that would expose them being behind when it comes to technical innovation. Apple forcing vendor lock-in can not keep up with thousands of companies working in different areas to make a good product, with the customer having a choice of which vendor to go with.


By FearTec on 11/15/2010 6:04:01 AM , Rating: 2
No problems downloading here, adsl2 can download a movie in no time.

I dont want blueray until movies are $5 each. I dont want hdcp telling me what resolution i am allowed to watch a movie at.

Macs may offer less specs but are very tidy laptops that dont feel like they are made from 10 types plastic that will melt and die in 1.5 years


But Windows doesn't support Blu-Ray!
By Shinobisan on 11/12/10, Rating: 0
RE: But Windows doesn't support Blu-Ray!
By namechamps on 11/12/2010 4:30:48 PM , Rating: 3
While maybe "support" is too strong of a word Windows is at least Bluray "comptable".

Support for Bluray on a computer requires:
* OS Support (to have software player certified requires certain OS protections of video path)
* Bluray Drive
* HDCP capable display
* Software player

Windows provides the requires OS level support (in Vista & Windows 7) and software players are available. It still requires a drive and HDCP capable display but at least it is possible.

Bluray playback on Mac is simply impossible.* Period.

* No playing back ripped files doesn't qualify as "Bluray player".


RE: But Windows doesn't support Blu-Ray!
By tecknurd on 11/13/2010 6:29:52 PM , Rating: 1
Windows has support, but only from third-party companies. You still have to buy the media player to watch Blu-Ray movies. Also you have to buy software to watch DVD movies. They are not going to give you the rights for free.

Who saids that you need an operating system to support Blu-Ray? From what I see, it depends on if the operating system supports optical drives and if the optical drive being used supports the standards. Blu-Ray drives does support the standards.

Who saids that the path have to be encrypted? The creators of DRM and studios prefer that all devices have an encrypted path, but it is not require to watch a full resolution of a Blu-Ray movie. If watching the Blu-Ray under a "fair use", then you do not have a problem. Though majority do not care to read the fair use act, so studios state everybody as criminals.

Yep a Blu-Ray drive is require to watch Blu-Ray movies.

An HDCP display is not required although it is required if all the media path is going to be encrypted to be legal. TV, AV receivers, surround sound processors can still output 1080p with out the use of HDCP.

A media player is second and last requirement to watch Blu-Ray movies. Mac does have support for watching movies, but just like Windows it requires 3rd-party software. Macs can not do on the fly playback directly from the Blu-Ray disc. Macs have to rip the Blu-Ray movie before playing the movie. Macs does not have video codec acceleration on all models, so a a fast processor is require. Though if renting a Blu-Ray movie and it is ripped, have to delete or preferably a secure delete of the rip when returning the movie.

I do qualify ripped Blu-Ray movies for movie playback, but only if it is used fairly. On the fly playback on a Mac is possible, but commercial programs can not do it though.


RE: But Windows doesn't support Blu-Ray!
By barnie on 11/13/2010 7:17:01 PM , Rating: 2
Let me put it this way: if you looked at Mac's 1999 DVD technology, when they had superior hardware and full control over the machine was something you didn't even have to ask the operating system to get. You had DVD players. Made by Apple. The innovative company. The one we look up to when we want to see new technology work. It worked-- so badly you wouldn't even think of comparing it to something real-- like a cheap, not-even-middle-of-the-range celeron machine. Slow, ugly, unsynchronized, wrong. In an absurd number of ways.

Do you really want to see something like that happen to the current age Macs? Provide a way to see how f***ing bad their software support for current somewhat demanding technology is? Really?

No, Macs are so much better off without Blu-ray drives.


By tecknurd on 11/14/2010 4:10:32 PM , Rating: 2
The current age of Macs are old because of Mac OS X is showing its age. When Mac OS X came, it revived Macs like the G3 and G4. It also renamed Apple. You are stating that Apple should not include an option for Blu-Ray. You are wrong because in order to innovate or move forward, Apple have to take the next to include that is today to move on to tomorrow. People that have Macs already added a Blu-Ray drive to their computer, so your statement is completely irrelevant.

You are farting up the wrong tree troll, go fart up up Apples' tree.


By Smilin on 11/12/2010 4:32:50 PM , Rating: 3
Microsoft put development hours into including blu-ray support into their product so they get to claim credit for it. Are you saying they did nothing?

Apple spent no effort and they are being called out.

The ONLY reason it requires anything 3rd party is because of the license holders. If MS bundled a codec they would get sued for monopoloy abuse by all the other vendors.

Your (weak) analogy if taken a step further also supports this. There are no GPS add-on modules for Zune. iPod could easily show a commercial using said product and comparing it to Zune without. Tada!

Face it: Microsoft put EFFORT into giving the consumer something they wanted. Stop being all whiny and whishy-washy and give them some well deserved credit.

Don't make me pull out a bunch of deceitful mac-vs-pc ads and thump you into a bloody pulp. After years of such crap from Apple it's an argument that you won't win.


Blu-Ray "very" young?
By CZroe on 11/12/2010 3:27:12 PM , Rating: 2
2006 is when Blu-Ray first arrived as a commercial movie delivery format, but it was around long before that (Japanese HD recorders and such with caddy-style rewritable discs).

Either way, it isn't "very young." No one considered DVD "very young" over 4 years into its useful lifetime.




RE: Blu-Ray "very" young?
By MeesterNid on 11/12/10, Rating: 0
RE: Blu-Ray "very" young?
By Smilin on 11/12/2010 4:16:36 PM , Rating: 2
I certainly enjoy my streaming from pc/media center/xbox/netflix/hulu/amazon/zune and all that (I've got a robust entertainment system).

BUT.. Blu-ray just ooozes beautiful in a way that no other format can.

1080p (not i) on a good screen just can't be matched. You can't call it obsolete when it hasn't even been matched yet.

For the most part I'll watch from streaming sources but for really visually intense movies I'll opt for the blu-ray...even if it means waiting on a netflix disc in the mail.


RE: Blu-Ray "very" young?
By namechamps on 11/12/2010 4:24:57 PM , Rating: 2
Wake me up when downloaded content has the same quality as Bluray.

The sad thing is there is no minimum quality required for HD. I could make a macro block hell 720p video running at half bitrate of the average youtube flick and it would be "HD".

Current quality of downloadable and stream-able content is lacking.

Eventually solid state and ubiquitous always on high speed connections will make optical media obsolete but we aren't there yet.


RE: Blu-Ray "very" young?
By Smilin on 11/12/2010 4:34:39 PM , Rating: 2
No kidding. "HD" on netflix streaming is < DVD quality.

Renting/buying discs may be a hassle but blu-ray will melt your face when you see it!


BD commercial
By wallijonn on 11/12/2010 4:31:11 PM , Rating: 1
Seeing as MS supported HD-DVD and refused to support BD because it was being sold to the masses by Sony, it would seem hypocritical to say that the PC supports BD.

BDs, like DVDs, are fine but for laptops most people would probably use Digital Copies copied to their HDs. Will BDs displayed on 10" to 17" screens really look superior to DVDs? I doubt it.

The Mac should have just connected to iTunes and started playing the same movie.




RE: BD commercial
By namechamps on 11/12/2010 4:39:38 PM , Rating: 2
It doesn't matter if Bluray is superior to DVD on a laptop screen (it is BTW).

The point is say you have a home theater system at home and a BD player. Obviously you then purchase & rent Blurays.

Now if your laptop only plays DVD that is an incompatibility. If playback of BD on laptop was exactly the same quality as DVD it would still be preferable to have BD playback simply because a single disc will work everywhere.


RE: BD commercial
By Targon on 11/12/2010 10:48:29 PM , Rating: 3
Consoles...what do they have to do with Windows 7 allowing support for BluRay when MacOS on the desktop does not? At the time that Microsoft supported HD-DVD, there was a question which HD movie standard would win out. Since Sony was the primary backer of BluRay, it makes sense that Microsoft would not support BD when there was still doubt which format would win.

Again, PCs support BD, and the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 are CONSOLES, different category. The Mac can't stream a full HD movie without there being delays and/or lossy compression that would degrade the presentation. iTunes doesn't provide movies that have the quality of BluRay.


Doesn't even support .flac
By Silver2k7 on 11/12/2010 4:18:16 PM , Rating: 2
Or well itunes that is, kind of silly of Apple not to support this standard for lossless quality audio.

http://flac.sourceforge.net/itunes.html




RE: Doesn't even support .flac
By name99 on 11/15/2010 5:07:11 PM , Rating: 2
You realize, don't you, that Apple HAS lossless audio coding built into iTunes, and has had it for years and years? I rip all my CDs using Apple Lossless.

And of course 3rd parties can (and have) written plugins that will support FLAC on OSX and in iTunes.

So basically your complaint boils down to "Apple should support my favorite standard, rather than what they chose to support, just because I say so"?
That's a powerful argument indeed.


By SimpleLance on 11/12/2010 4:27:26 PM , Rating: 2
If you buy a Windows 7 PC from Dell, HP, Acer, etc, and it comes with BD drive, the blu-ray codecs are also installed. You don't need to do anything else to be able to watch blu-ray content. "It just works" right out of the box.




By delphinus100 on 11/13/2010 2:04:41 AM , Rating: 2
Indeed, it does exactly that for me, with a two-year old HP laptop, running 64-bit Vista...


Yes, it is fair
By sviola on 11/12/2010 2:38:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So is it fair for Microsoft to be making fun of Apple's Blu-ray incompetence?


If you look at the history of Mac ads, attacking Windows and PCs, it would be fair.




Not far enough...
By n0b0dykn0ws on 11/12/2010 3:31:00 PM , Rating: 2
I wish they took that extra step and showed bitrate starved streaming video on the Mac.

n0b0dykn0ws




On a roll...
By zaaf on 11/12/2010 4:08:07 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft now has a couple of entertaining commercials out. I love the Windows 7 Mobile spot. Both my wife and kid watch it and laugh so it's getting it's message across. This one is pretty clever, too.




Steve says...
By INeedCache on 11/12/2010 4:23:30 PM , Rating: 2
"stay away from Blu-Ray. It's bad for you. I'll let you know when there's a money-making, uh, I mean healthy alternative."




This ad
By BailoutBenny on 11/12/2010 4:54:40 PM , Rating: 2
must be why Ken Heebner dumped all of his Apple shares:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/abandon-apple-shi...




Making fun of Apple
By Aibo on 11/13/2010 6:13:28 PM , Rating: 2
Outside the discussion of Windows 7 does Blu-ray, while Apple doesn't. Why is it when Apple ads makes fun of competitors, "it's okay". But Apple or rather Steve Jobs can't handle it when competitors make fun of Apple products? I'm saying this includes laptops, cell phones and tablets.

When Bill Gates was with Microsoft, he was the most person being made fun of because he made so much money. Did he react like Steve Jobs? Will be very interesting how Steve Jobs will react if someone throws a pie at his face. Probably best not to know.




Realism
By barnie on 11/13/2010 6:50:32 PM , Rating: 2
At least they are being realistic this time around.

Circa 10 years ago when DVD was young Apple was crying out loud how good they were in the playback dimension. They didn't just suck. They were so awful you would've hated the concept of optical discs if you were stuck on the Apple implementation.

Fast forward to now. They still can't do it. They won't be able to do it if you let them have the decade this year to fix it. Imagine what would happen if Blu-ray drives were on a Mac-- people would think it could play the video, won't they?

Well, they can't. They know they can't. It's this smallish software kind of thingy-- that you know something should be possible, and if you look hard enough it IS possible-- unless you are stuck with a closed down, screwed up, walled up kind of operating system that there's only one of a kind in this world....




Nice Commercial..
By METALMORPHASIS on 11/13/2010 9:57:09 PM , Rating: 2
IF they ever show it!
I actually seen 1 whole Windows 7 commercial in the last month(Must have lasted about 7 seconds)and thats with the TV on all the time!




Ah porn...
By carage on 11/14/2010 1:23:12 AM , Rating: 2
Don't worry, Jobs is just going to hold another press conference and say : "if you want to watch porn, get a PC."

Bluray porn is pretty nice, especially on a large screen.




Just Pathetic...
By TEAMSWITCHER on 11/14/2010 6:45:57 AM , Rating: 2
Watching an action spectacular like Avatar on a Laptop is like doing laps in your hot tub. Sure you can do it...but why? Movies like that are designed for big screens and big sound. I would much rather read a book on a plane, than ruin a perfectly great movie by watching it on a mobile device. I use my home theater to watch Blue Ray movies. Sorry Microsoft, but your argument is completely lame!

With their new AppStore for the macintosh, Apple is clearly preparing to remove optical drives from all of their mobile devices. I can't even remember the last time I used my optical drive. They are worthless dinosaurs and the space could be better utilized for more secondary storage, larger batteries, and better cooling.




Who cares?
By KoolAidMan1 on 11/15/2010 4:43:24 AM , Rating: 2
Really, who cares?

Optical media for portable devices like laptops are on the way out. They add physical size and mechanical parts that don't need to be there. Applications are going the way of digital distribution. I haven't bought a physical copy of a game outside of Steam or Battlenet since 2007, so there's a place where discs are on the way out. People watch digital copies of HD movies, either downloaded from services like iTunes or copies that come included with many Blu Rays. Again, no reason to carry a bunch of discs around anymore when it can all be on hard drive. Operating systems on DVD will be a thing of the past as well, restore and installation packages will be on USB drives instead, much like they are with the Macbook Air.

And regarding the ad, remember, Windows 7 itself doesn't have Blu Ray playback software. I had to buy TotalMedia3 to use the Blu Ray drive on my own DIY gaming PC. Microsoft really needs to stop patting themselves on the back for the work that OEM manufacturers do with their hardware and software.

If Microsoft wanted to avoid hypocrisy, they would STFU and put Blu Ray support into the XBox 360. I really don't care about Blu Ray on a laptop screen, but I care a lot about having Blu Ray playback on my 60" Kuro plasma. Oh well, I'll have to keep using my PS3 for that.

Stupid argument that the ad is putting forward.




Good job!
By masamasa on 11/15/2010 11:02:03 AM , Rating: 2
Glad to those mud-slingers get a taste of their own medicine.




By name99 on 11/15/2010 4:57:16 PM , Rating: 2
This ad is, I'm sorry, dimwitted and stupid.

The reason Apple is not supporting BR is simple and obvious to anyone with a brain. Apple has concluded (rightly IMHO) that optical storage is where floppies were when the iMac came out --- an obsolete technology whose time is past, and the cost in weight, volume and power does not justify the constraints they put on system designers. The new AirBooks are only the first wave --- I suspect that the new round of MacBook pros will likewise debut with no optical (and thus thinner and a pound lighter), followed by optical free minis and iMacs. Will Lion be available on USB flash drive to all buyers? I suspect so --- and the result will be a vastly faster install than the crunch-grind-eek-crunch of an OS install off a DVD.

So, given what Apple sees as the future, why would they constrain themselves by supporting a newer, double-density floppy disk? The future is already pretty much decided --- buy a cheap USB optical drive to use for your existing stash of CDs and DVDs, but be aware that that is the way of the past.
(Or, if you prefer a different analogy, Apple doesn't ship computers with built-in printers --- you buy whatever external printer you want, and don't lug it around with the rest of your computer. If you sputter at the thought of a portable with a built-in printer, then ask yourself why it is so essential that a computer have a built-in optical drive.)




Another Microsoft commerical
By superstition on 11/17/2010 5:40:58 PM , Rating: 2
making fun of the PS3 for not supporting HD-DVD.




Great
By kleinma on 11/12/2010 2:42:44 PM , Rating: 1
Hopefully Sony doesn't decide to run the same commercial with the xbox and ps3 in it.




Wut?
By messele on 11/12/10, Rating: -1
RE: Wut?
By messele on 11/12/2010 3:23:56 PM , Rating: 1
...in fact I didn't even watch BD films on my PS3 for long before the sheer noise of the thing annoyed me enough to get a proper BD player.

Watching films on computers is just an unsatisfying experience.


RE: Wut?
By namechamps on 11/12/2010 4:11:48 PM , Rating: 2
Watching a film on computer may be a reduced experience but reduced is better than no experience.

Last time I tried to take my entire home theater system on a business trip the extra baggage fees were brutal.

Laptop - plays BD
Home Theater - plays BD

All Blurays purchased & rented (via netflix) work both at home and on the road = wonderful.


RE: Wut?
By B3an on 11/12/2010 4:55:14 PM , Rating: 2
Idiot. You fail to realise that pretty much any blu-ray supporting laptop will have a HDMI output (another thing Macs lack). You can just as easily connect it to a TV as you can a dedicated blu-ray player.

You also fail to realise that some people actually have good computers, with high-end sound systems connected, and 30" monitors with higher than HD res. A high-end computer will do a better job at blu-ray, and have more settings/options/capabilities than any dedicated player will.


RE: Wut?
By Targon on 11/12/10, Rating: 0
RE: Wut?
By Alexstarfire on 11/13/2010 3:53:16 PM , Rating: 2
That might usually be true, but if you can read the blu-ray then it comes down to software, not hardware. A blu-ray player doesn't display video, doesn't produce the sound, only reads and sends out information. I would argue that a computer couldn't really be better though. It could be equal. By that I mean comparing the best both could offer, and looking at only hardware. Considering a computer is a general purpose device it can actually offer more than a blu-ray player when it comes to software. It can connect to the internet and load up things on the disc other than video and audio.

Looking at only video and audio then the player pretty much doesn't matter. You just have to make sure it can play and has the right outputs.


RE: Wut?
By Targon on 11/13/2010 5:03:38 PM , Rating: 2
Pretty much all the new BluRay players come with an ethernet connection and an increasing number come with wireless support to connect to the Internet. Netflix streaming, Pandora, Blockbuster, YouTube, the list of things that BluRay players can do has been increasing. And yes, playing your video/audio files from a computer on the network also works.

The only thing we don't see as standard is displaying from a computer screen to the BluRay player, but that too is something that is starting to show up.


RE: Wut?
By UNHchabo on 11/12/2010 3:31:12 PM , Rating: 3
I haven't bought anything related to Blu-ray yet, but I do prefer even 720p content over 480p, given the choice, even on a laptop screen.

The only downside to playing HD media on a plane would be battery life.

So no, it's not really a big deal, but it's nice to have the option. I still enjoy watching my movies that I have on VHS, but if given the opportunity to watch the movie in better quality, I'll take it.


RE: Wut?
By Smilin on 11/12/2010 3:47:15 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
So how many machines are being shipped with a BD drive AND the necessary software AND a screen that supports 1080p AND 7.1 or at least 5.1 sound capability.


Uhm.. All of them?

I mean nearly every computer you buy from dell/hp/asus etc has an option for a blu-ray drive right? Every one of those has onboard 5.1 or better sound. Every one of those will have some 3rd party crapware that has a codec.

Any desktop is available with a 1080p screen. Most laptops do well beyond 720p and many 1080.

If a PC user wants blu-ray they just check a box when ordering. If an Apple user wants blu-ray they are out of luck. There is no reason Apple can't support blu-ray other than hubris.


RE: Wut?
By namechamps on 11/12/2010 4:09:12 PM , Rating: 2
DVD quality may be "just fine" on a laptop but they point is media re-use.

I have a Bluray player at home, I often travel. Kinda a pain in the ass to buy/rent BD discs for home and DVD disc for laptop.

Simply having a single format is great. I can buy a disc and it is good for home system or laptop. I can fill netflix q only w/ BD titles and they all work on both systems.

Now if all BD discs came w/ a DVD title you might have a point.


RE: Wut?
By KoolAidMan1 on 11/15/2010 3:24:21 PM , Rating: 2
Many Blu Rays go one step better and come with a digital copy included. It obviously isn't something you'd want to watch on a 60" plasma but for a laptop screen it is great, and you don't have to pack discs with you.


RE: Wut?
By name99 on 11/15/2010 5:00:08 PM , Rating: 2
A digital copy that is WMV DRM'd and thus DOESN'T WORK on a mac.
Heck on an argument there for why Apple should support BR...


Part of the problem
By Penti on 11/12/10, Rating: -1
RE: Part of the problem
By Targon on 11/12/2010 10:54:03 PM , Rating: 3
Exactly, Apple charges 2-3 times as much for a computer with the same specs, yet won't spend the engineering effort to implement something new.

Remember back in 2001, MacOS X just came out, and Microsoft had Windows XP. Since then, we have seen Vista come out, followed by Windows 7, while Apple still has MacOS X. Microsoft has been investing in fundamental improvements that are NEEDED for new technologies, and Apple has not.

Apple can license whatever they want, Microsoft won't stop them, and couldn't if they wanted to avoid all sorts of fines in Europe over this sort of thing. All the blame is on Apple for not putting in the effort.

So, tell me again how innovative Apple is? Oh, that display on the iPhone 4...or pseudo-multitasking on iOS 4...


RE: Part of the problem
By TEAMSWITCHER on 11/14/2010 6:54:22 AM , Rating: 2
Apple has patented many laptop innovations like the magnetic power connector and the aluminum unibody construction for thin light and completely rigid designs. It will be at least 12 more years before PC makers can do either of those things. Those are very cool and practical features that address the biggest inherent flaws of notebook computers.


RE: Part of the problem
By Reclaimer77 on 11/14/2010 2:16:06 PM , Rating: 2
Oh wow an all aluminum case that blocks off the cooling vents and gets so hot your balls roast. WOW nobody ever thought of doing that before, how innovative of you Apple!

quote:
Those are very cool and practical features that address the biggest inherent flaws of notebook computers.


???

How is what the laptop case made of an "inherent" flaw in the notebook design? I don't understand. Is there some huge disadvantage to composite plastics we don't know about that gives Apple an edge?


RE: Part of the problem
By TEAMSWITCHER on 11/14/2010 4:35:20 PM , Rating: 2
First the aluminum unibody is machined for high strength and low weight, like aircraft parts. Plastic shells can flex and the circuit boards inside your laptop don't like to flex. The rigid unibody construction doesn't flex, even the new MacBook Airs are very thin and don't flex.

Plastic is an insulator, heat that builds up in your laptop and cannot escape through the shell. Aluminum is a conductor and the entire lower shell can aid in heat dissipation. The net effect is that the notebook shell can be smaller and dissipate the same amount of heat.

Yes the MacBook Pro can get hot on the bottom, and you are right that I cannot play Unreal Tournament 3 without some heat. But non gaming activities are fine, in facto cooler than my last notebook.


RE: Part of the problem
By Reclaimer77 on 11/15/2010 4:04:20 PM , Rating: 1
First of all, I think if there was an industry wide problem with plastic flexing of laptops, affecting hundreds of millions of laptops sold to date, we would know about it by now. The huge majority of laptops are still plastic wrapped, maybe there's a reason for it? Unless a 200 pound guy is sitting on your laptop, "flexing" isn't going to be a problem.

quote:
Plastic is an insulator, heat that builds up in your laptop and cannot escape through the shell. Aluminum is a conductor and the entire lower shell can aid in heat dissipation. The net effect is that the notebook shell can be smaller and dissipate the same amount of heat.


So explain to me why the only notebook line that's had significant heat issues in the past 5 years have been Mac Book Air's? With reported internal case temperatures exceeding 110 degrees F.

Aluminum is a great conductor, and CAN help with heat dissipation. Too bad Apple decided looks and weight were more important than functionality and gave them underspecified weak cooling solutions.

A hot running Aluminum case notebook is no better than a plastic cool running one.


RE: Part of the problem
By Penti on 11/14/2010 9:01:13 PM , Rating: 2
Uhm. OS X is just a product name, not a version, XP too has been significantly updated since 2001, SP3 is from 2008, DX9.0c is from 2004, DX10 is from 2006, DX11 is from 2009. The development on OS X has been similar. Cocoa and the Objective-C framework was for example re-written in 2007. OpenGL 1.3/4 didn't come until 10.2.3 in late 2002, CUPS didn't come until 10.2, Bonjour didn't come until 10.2, Spotlight and dashboard didn't come until 10.4, Safari didn't come until 2003, Quartz Extreme didn't come until 10.2, Core Image didn't come until 10.4, OpenGL 2.0 didn't come until 10.4.x, OpenGL 3 isn't complete yet. OpenGL 2.1 was first supported in 10.6. Core animation didn't come until 10.5. And so on. And much more. You have had 10.0, 10.1 (free upgrade), 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, 10.5 and 10.6 together with all the respective update to all those branches. It's kinda like if Microsoft had 10 SP to XP and new kernel upgrades instead of 3.

Yet again I didn't claim Microsoft was stopping them, just the unfair rules that do exist which allows XP to support it with their 2004 infrastructure which don't fulfill the demands. Double standards don't help. They can do the engineering necessary, but Apple won't do anything without any upside to it. They are cheap when it comes to development, but so is Microsoft, which don't release a BD-player of their own. Which is what Apple would be required to do moreover or in excess of supporting protected video paths. As said Microsoft's 2004 tech (Win XP SP2 with DX9.0c) are allowed to use it, but not Apples 2009 tech. Apple has significantly invested in the video architecture, and has DRM in the form of HDCP and such, but it's not enough, so it would simply cost more then it's worth implementing it. Btw Vista SP2/Platform Update and 7 supports the same tech, it's virtually the same OS, it's just minor visual features that differs. I wouldn't really count them as different OS's or products. And a few kernel changes that could have been rolled into Vista. And no EU wouldn't have a say to the licensing rules of AACS or BD. Darwin's Kernel version has gone from 1.3.1 to 10.5, (jumping from 1.4.1 to 5.1) there has been substantial development there. Certainly not the same product. Apple isn't special but they aren't treated as any other product by the licensing rules either. And I couldn't care less about Apple using Samsung LCD's on their phones, so can everybody else. But at least it's no Kin. Apple is just an OEM with some software development.


RE: Part of the problem
By KoolAidMan1 on 11/15/2010 5:13:37 AM , Rating: 2
Speaking as someone that has gone with every Windows version since 2.0 (and MS-DOS 3) and Mac OS since 10.2, I can say that your argument is ridiculous. Your argument is based on the assumption that OS X versions are merely service packs. It is flawed based on the fact that the updates from version to version have been HUGE.

The move in 2004 from 10.3 to 10.4 alone is the largest leap I've seen in an operating system since the move from Windows 95 to 98. It was certainly a larger leap than the move from XP to Vista (as much as I loved its increase in security and stability). Spotlight was a revelation, far superior to what Windows XP was capable of, and it is still superior to the latest Windows Search in Windows 7. That OS 10.4 was so stable and robust while simultaneously giving faster performance than prior versions was crazy. Following versions, with the exception of 10.6 which was almost all under-the-hood/developer enhancements, have added significant end-user functionality.

Again, saying we've seen Vista and then Windows 7 from Microsoft while Apple is still on Mac OS X is incredibly ignorant given the pace at which Apple has kept advancing their operating system.


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