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Gadgets Wii Costs Nintendo $158 to Make
Marcus Yam (Blog) - December 18, 2006 6:17 AM
Print E-mail del.icio.us 106 comment(s) - last by glennpratt.. on Dec 23 at 1:27 PM

Cost comparison between Wii and PS3 - Image courtesy Toyokeizai Online
When the Big N said that it was making money off every Wii sold, it wasn't kidding

Japanese site Toyokeizai Online has a piece on the looking at the new consoles, with a distinct focus on the Nintendo Wii. The publication’s tear down of the console revealed parts from Broadcom, Qimonda, Samsung, Elpida and of course IBM and ATI. A Foxconn PCB print was found inside the console, pointing to the manufacturer. More interesting, however, is the tally for the cost of the components that make up the Wii.

While already at a rock-bottom selling price relative to its competitors, Nintendo has admitted that it is making a profit off every Wii sold, which is definitely something Microsoft and Sony cannot claim when they launched their consoles. After going through the Wii’s innards, analysts estimate a total of $158.30 is what Nintendo is paying for each console. See the chart below:

Part

Price in dollars

Graphics chip

29.60

CPU

13.00

DRAM

7.80

Optical disk drive

31.00

Power supply

11.30

Assembly cost

19.50

Cost total

158.30

That breakdown is just for the machine itself. With the way that Nintendo currently sells it, the costs for the Wii Remote, Nunchuk and Wii Sports would bump that number up. Assuming wholesale prices on the controllers and the cents it costs to press a DVD, Nintendo could be making around $40 on every unit. This is in stark contrast to the Sony and Microsoft model: analysts estimate $240 to $300 are lost on every PS3 sold, and another $200 lost on the Xbox 360.

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Are these figures reliable?
By Kuroyama on 12/18/2006 8:25:57 AM , Rating: 2
Looking at Newegg I can get a DVD reader for $16.99, and even a DVD burner for $29.99. I find it doubtful that Nintendo had to pay $31 for what I believe is just a DVD reader. Of course, that makes the total even more in Nintendo's favor, but also makes we wonder about the reliability of the other figures.




RE: Are these figures reliable?
By pauldovi on 12/18/2006 8:52:49 AM , Rating: 1
I have to agree with you. These prices are not reliable at all. Also, these prices do not include advertising and all your other base expenses that are part of the Wii cost.


RE: Are these figures reliable?
By solgae1784 on 12/18/2006 8:58:01 AM , Rating: 2
Those price figures are based on Japanese prices, which may or may not be more expensive than US prices. Not sure if those parts are more expensive in Japan than US.


RE: Are these figures reliable?
By solgae1784 on 12/18/2006 8:59:54 AM , Rating: 2
I stand correct. Didn't read the image throughly enough.


RE: Are these figures reliable?
By Kuroyama on 12/18/2006 9:02:03 AM , Rating: 2
The Wii is almost certainly assembled in China or SE Asia with parts purchased in massive quantities from factories in China or SE Asia. There is no reason that the figure should be based on Japanese prices.


RE: Are these figures reliable?
By masher2 (blog) on 12/18/2006 10:30:45 AM , Rating: 1
You also must remember that the Wii's drive is not a standard DVD reader. The electronics are, but the enclosure and mechanicals are slightly modified specifically for the Wii, which means some retooling costs.


RE: Are these figures reliable?
By masher2 (blog) on 12/18/2006 10:31:56 AM , Rating: 1
I also must point out the cheapest slot-loading DVD drive I've seen recently has been far more than $16.


RE: Are these figures reliable?
By Xavian on 12/18/2006 12:07:26 PM , Rating: 1
Indeed, the slot-loading drive is unique as it can take Mini-DVD sized discs (Gamecube discs) as well as full DVD sized discs (Wii Discs). It is probably a special part that is custom-built.


RE: Are these figures reliable?
By blojib on 12/18/2006 9:34:36 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think they included advertising and other miscellaneous costs because those are, for the most part, already spent. It's not a variable cost like the hardware. What should be included are shipping, labor, and support costs because these go up as more units are manufactured.


By psychobriggsy on 12/18/2006 9:12:28 AM , Rating: 2
The Wii drive also has to handle the small Gamecube discs which will require some custom hardware as it is a slot loading device. However $31 is probably still a bit too much. Then again the CPU might be a bit more expensive, etc, etc.

(argh, what nitwit programmed the comment system to change the focus to the Subject field when you're happily typing away in the comment field?)


awesome!
By yacoub on 12/18/2006 8:01:02 AM , Rating: 3
I'm glad to see they can be successful even off the hardware, and on top of that it happens to be the most affordable system!

Seems like their analysts were successful in their cost estimation and budgeting, and Nintendo has designed a product from the ground up that ended up being a success.

This will not only help Nintendo survive and grow (and swallow the costs for unanticipated things like wristband replacements), but also fund R&D for the next gen, where as in the past I remember quite well that they weren't making much if anything off the GameCube and folks wondered at times if they'd even be around for another console iteration beyond the GC.




RE: awesome!
By psychobriggsy on 12/18/2006 9:16:42 AM , Rating: 2
Since Nintendo have been consistently making profits even during 'failures' like the GameCube (somehow the XBox was a success despite selling only a few percent more devices at a massive loss to Microsoft) I don't think anyone with a brain was ever worried about Nintendo not being around.


RE: awesome!
By ss284 on 12/18/2006 9:55:28 AM , Rating: 2
The xbox was a success because it was microsoft's first attempt at a console. Considering nintendo is a veteran in the field, and MS had just started, they did pretty well generating a decently sized fanbase for the 360.


RE: awesome!
By Xavian on 12/18/2006 12:10:10 PM , Rating: 2
Xbox was a success of sorts because Microsoft could take the $6 Billion hit that the Xbox cost at the end of the generation. Any other company would have been severly damaged at such losses, but because its Microsoft they can out-price and out-market the competition.

Horizontal Monopolies in action folks.


I must of missed something that doesn't add up to $158
By boobot on 12/18/2006 8:19:55 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe I have to some coffee first.




By boobot on 12/18/2006 8:20:29 AM , Rating: 2
see, I can't even type.


By Tiamat on 12/18/2006 8:24:32 AM , Rating: 2
I think the price includes the cost of one of the controllers? Its not listed, but people are forced to pay for it since it is bundled?


By bdewong on 12/18/2006 12:47:59 PM , Rating: 2
That's funny because neither one of the prices add up. I wonder where the discrepancy comes from.


Graphics Whores
By Alexstarfire on 12/18/2006 3:43:26 PM , Rating: 2
It's people like Tilmitt that keep nVidia and ATI making high-end graphics cards. All they care about is graphics. Apparently graphics mean more to you than gameplay. Quite frankly that doesn't surprise me too much, though I do wonder why you have to keep reiterating that fact. Think about this, if the graphics sucked on the game would it still be a good game, or would it just plain suck. Chances are for the games you play they'd suck, but that depends on what you play.

Why does it matter that you pay more than what it cost them. They are looking at the hardware, and not what it actually cost to develop. Even if after everything we are still paying less than what it costs SO WHAT. It's cheaper than both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 currently cost. Chances are it'll end up being much cheaper later. Probably less than new Gamecubes cost now.

I would figure most people buy consoles now-a-days to play games, not to play MP3s, watch DVDs/Blu-Ray/HD-DVDs, view photos, use Linux, to mod, and the list goes on. If I want all that stuff I wouldn't get some pathetic little console that have a crappy controller. I'd get what many people like to call a computer.

Does it really matter if we pay more than what the console is worth? NO. Why would it? Do you buy a console to part it out? Of course not. Is your console going to increase in price? NO. Do newer components mean they are better? Prossibly, but not always.

You can argue all you want about the Wii being overpriced, but we aren't the ones paying $600 for a console that does little more than play games. The PS3 has many things that suck about it, but nothing more than the Cell processor. I won't go into details, but that's the stupidest thing Sony could have put in the PS3.

The only competition against the Wii is the Xbox360. The Xbox 360 has it's online capabilities and graphics, but nothing that different from the Xbox. The online part might win over a lot of people, but we'll see.




RE: Graphics Whores
By rykerabel on 12/18/2006 4:52:21 PM , Rating: 2
my opinion:

Hardware -----> Graphics
Software -----> Fun

So no matter what hardware you have, its up to the programmers to make fun games.

Only thing the hardware is good for is pretty pictures,pretty sounds and dependable operation.

Pretty Pictures: PS3 better than Wii
Pretty Sound: PS3 better than Wii
Dependable: Wii better than PS3 (5 years old tech should be stable)

One more thing... where does the Wiimote fit in...

Functionality
This is a feature of both hardware and software. This is Wii's big claim to fame.

Only problem, is nothing is stopping Sony or anyone else from adding the same or better functionality to the PS3.

so...

Functionality: PS3 == Wii

my opinion, take it or leave or dis it or flame however you like :D


RE: Graphics Whores
By Dragen on 12/19/2006 11:51:34 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Only problem, is nothing is stopping Sony or anyone else from adding the same or better functionality to the PS3.

so...

Functionality: PS3 == Wii


Fundamentally flawed logic here.. while it seems painstakingly obvious how you got to this conclusion, common sense interjects and confuses the hell out of me. You have completely obfuscated the purpose, intent, and design philosophy surrounding the Wii and the Wiiremote entirely.

Stuffing infra-red, or a gyro, for movement sensitive detection in to a PS3 or 360 controller and forcing it to work with a game that wasn't even designed with movement sensitive capabilities in mind is like trying to retrofit a Corvette LS2 engine in to a Honda Accord. (Ok, maybe it's not THAT bad) so I stand corrected. A little.

C'mon dude, use your head here. The PS3 =/= Wii in any way shape or form. The entire game structure for the Wii is focused ENTIRELY around motion sensitive technology. This is what we call "Purpose" and it's a simple set of rules that all developers must follow when designing gaming for the Wii platform. So the development time is making games as pretty as the Sony PS3, (The Wii isn't capable of that kind of processing power) rather, time is spent being creative and innovative while taking a fresh new & FUN approach to playing video games on a console. This is done from day 1, and isn't "aftermath".

Don't confuse how developers write game software for a motion sensitive console. Not the other way around.

So who's to say Sony or Microsoft wouldn't throw in a motion sensitive controller and design a couple games with that purpose in mind? Probably a lot of you... in fact, I bet the vast majority of the Sony and Microsoft fan boys would have you believe that. But alas, ignorance is bliss. It wont happen, and you can count on that. They are completely different platforms, targeted at totally different people.

But I can assure you, Nintendo will reach out to a LOT more people, in ALL ages, across the country and the world, than Sony ever will with their PS3.

And we've already seen that.


Brand Loyalty and Fanboys
By unbaisedgamer on 12/18/2006 12:31:46 PM , Rating: 2
This discussion has become riddled with fanboy posts, something that seems to be happening more and more on these forums.

The fact is every console has their respective pros and cons.

The Wii brings a new way to interact with games to the table at an affordable price but at the expense of graphical quality.

The Xbox 360 brings next-gen graphics to the table and plays it safe with a traditional controller. Price of core system is comparable to the Wii.

The PS3 also brings next-gen graphics as well as a motion sensing controller and blu-ray, but a gamer pays more for packaged entertainment hardware than game hardware.

You people need to get over the PS3 vs Wii debates because they are two different products targeted at two different consumer groups.

Compare and contrast PS3 vs Xbox 360 because you can actually compare technical data and debate graphical quality which is an attribute both systems pride themselves on.

But Wii vs PS3 vs Xbox 360 debates come down to game quality. NOT GAMEPLAY OR CONTROLS! The Wii is not better because of innovative controls. Controls are only a small portion of what make a game great. A combination of story, graphics, immersion, controls, game play, length, and more are what game quality is about. A good game wraps a balance of all elements into a single game and does each element well.

If any of you have noticed, check around the internet for The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess reviews. The ratings for GC version vs Wii version fluctuate around the same area. Many of the reviewers have played both version and state that in their reviews. But the fact is, they score relatively the same, only differing in a couple decimal values.

What does this tell us? Do the Wii's controls actually make a game outstandingly better?

It's all opinion. Real gamers would look at the games and stop complaining about the systems themselves. Because thats what its about. Systems are worthless without games regardless of new controls or amazing graphics.

I personally own all 3 systems currently and I am by no means rich. I work my butt off day after day balancing college, work, and gaming. All 3 are great and fell unique. The Wii definately stands out as different. But they are all fine systems. No single one stands out as the best.




RE: Brand Loyalty and Fanboys
By KernD on 12/18/2006 1:06:55 PM , Rating: 2
Porting a game from an other console to the Wii isn't and easy thing, and it realy depends on the game. I've played Zelda on the Wii and I can say that shooting with your bow is more fun than it was in previous games, but the sword fighting adds nothing to the game on the Wii compared to the GC.

But when the game is designed for the Wii it can be really great, playing 4 player tennis is allot of fun. The boxing game is a good workout too.


RE: Brand Loyalty and Fanboys
By hecksign on 12/21/2006 11:14:22 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
You people need to get over the PS3 vs Wii debates because they are two different products targeted at two different consumer groups.


agree with you. Nintendo is smart because while Xbox360 and ps3 made a killer graphics consoles and entertainment system, Nintendo made Wii that is affordable, for old school gamers and exercise. Well Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony got business plan of their own.


the wii's competitors
By dubldwn on 12/18/2006 3:58:57 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
While already at a rock-bottom selling price relative to its competitors


The PS2 is only $130.




RE: the wii's competitors
By Bowsky on 12/18/2006 6:34:06 PM , Rating: 2
The Wii isn't competing against PS2... or the Xbox 1 for that matter. Both of these consoles are at the end of their life cycles, and the market, especially for the PS2, is already close to its maximum size.

Although you will still see strong sales of the PS2 through this holiday season because of the short supply of the PS3. This will be the last year the PS2 and XBox 1 will be serious competitors. The Wii, 360, and PS3 however will remain competitive for the next 4-5 years.


RE: the wii's competitors
By glennpratt on 12/23/2006 1:27:43 PM , Rating: 2
Wii and last gen systems are def. cross shopped right now. I know people who like the Wii, but grabbed a PS2 and guitar hero instead.


Xbox 360
By ajfink on 12/18/2006 11:23:30 AM , Rating: 2
I assume the article meant the Xbox 360 was sold at a $200 deficit at launch, because Microsoft is currently making a profit on each console sold.




RE: Xbox 360
By Milliamp on 12/18/2006 12:11:53 PM , Rating: 2
Currect, I believe the last figures in circulation said the MS made about $75 on each 360 premium console sold.

Here is one source: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061116-8239...

They quote the cost at $323.30, as of 11/16, which is a couple million consoles ago by now. I aso believe most 360's sold now are the premium systems.


Wii cost
By wallijonn on 12/18/2006 2:14:09 PM , Rating: 2
I would expect a $250 unit to cost $25 to make due to wholesale costs of parts.




RE: Wii cost
By bigbrent88 on 12/18/2006 8:49:34 PM , Rating: 2
Actually the PS2 has outsold all consoles this past month. I think it outsold x360 by some 150,000 units. I personally don't think Sony wanted to release the PS3 just yet, they were happy for summer 2007 looking at the PS2 games still being released. Yes, it was all a hoax that they would release last spring.

Alas they should have made bigger differences in the 2 SKUs, with the high end doing the whole console, PSP connect, media center thing. While the low end would play games and Blu-ray only, no option for storing anything, no web browser, maybe no HDMI though it does make a nice add-on. I like the idea of using the PS3 to store music and vids near my tv, so I don't have to go to my computer and I can blast on the big stereo. Plus whenever the PSP comes down(maybe gets some added functions built in) Ill have a sweet music, game, GPS reciever!!!


Wii should all be disappointed!
By shootthemoon on 12/19/2006 10:41:50 AM , Rating: 2
I have to agree with you about the wii. The wii was such a disappointment. Red steel is terrible, zelda is like the old zelda in places, weapons and graphics. Wii sports is the best game available and after 11 days its just boring. the wiimote isnt as good as i thought it'd be, in madden the guy often just throws the ball away because it think thats where you want it to go. Rayman was a disappointment as well. I've bought 6 games for the wii and none have showed me any signs of a gaming revolution. The console still doesnt have any channels or online gaming! I'm going to give up on nintendo if things dont start improving. I bought a 40'' tv and i cant stand playing with the wii anymore. It looks all horrible and stretched. I know it wasnt made for it, but come on! I'm glad Nintendo tried something different, but Nintendo could have at least made the console bigger to include better hardware.




RE: Wii should all be disappointed!
By bdewong on 12/19/2006 1:40:02 PM , Rating: 2
Thanks for the honest review. I guess we'll see where the wii goes in the next few months-next year. The funny thing is that I wanted to buy a wii and waited at best buy at 5AM and didn't come up with one. Went home and saw the Toys'R'Us ad and went and bought an xbox 360 premium with viva pinata and an extra wireless controller for $400. I never wanted to get an Xbox 360 and actually had decided on getting a PS3 over any of the other two systems, but when it came down to supply and demand and value, I ended up getting the 360. Its sad because I was a big supporter of blu-ray and the ps3 system, but it looks like I won't be getting one any time soon and I'll be holding off on the wii for a while to see how it does.


Buggy posts
By encryptkeeper on 12/18/2006 9:54:49 AM , Rating: 2
Hey DailyTech! Buggy posts guys! Can you fix it?




Not exactly
By nowayout99 on 12/18/2006 1:26:59 PM , Rating: 2
The pricing does not account for the 512MB of NAND memory (at least $20), the bluetooth/network broadcom chip, or the wiimote included in the box.




Slightly Better Graphics anyone?
By LordTerrin on 12/18/2006 1:44:17 PM , Rating: 2
I rarely post in here, I just like to read the comments, but I do have something to say for this. I love the wii, though I will never buy one. I agree with many who say that systems like the DS may not have great graphics, but they are totally fun and innovative, and the Wii, likewise, does not have very good graphics, but is innovative.

I wish they could have done a LITTLE more in the graphics department, nothing crazy, nothing like a GeForce 12,000, just.. something a little better. I understand that graphics are not the central aspect of the system, FUN is, and I admire that a lot. I have played the wii with my friends a lot, and it's really fun... I just think moving into 2008 and 2009 the Wii IS going to get hit from the angle of graphics, there is no doubting it. When PS3 and X360 finally come into their own, they will use it as a very strong point against Wii, and on many people, it will probably work.




By Etsp on 12/19/2006 1:37:53 AM , Rating: 2
First off, what really makes money in the console market is the software, and the more consoles you sell, the more developers will make games for it. PS3 and Xbox 360 had to sell at losses to move enough consoles to make it worthwhile for developers to make games for it, as developers have a rather extreme "economies of scale" effect on them. They (Sony and Microsoft) are taking a huge financial hit for it, but it is a necessary sacrifice.

With the Wii being priced the way it is, they will move many, MANY consoles once they can keep up with demand, furthermore without such a sacrifice, Nintendo has the opportunity to lower licensing costs for developers to further lessen the risk factor of developing a Wii-exclusive title. A game system is only as good as it's developer support.

Microsoft has been working closely with developers for many years and understands what steps they can take to make it easier on them. Sony has stuck with its proprietary concepts which make it harder on developers. Nintendo has for a long time been easy to develop for, and with the Wii, developers can expect to spend LESS per game because they do not need to concentrate on making high-def content, and they can expect to still sell a great many games simply because a great many consumers will have a Wii, based on the sheer price, and the fact that it's consumer base was targeted to be much wider than any other console.




Missing Accessories.
By MEEMAS on 12/19/2006 1:25:06 PM , Rating: 2
My biggest complaint about the price/cost ratio of the Wii is that once again N has chosen to drop the ball and not include Component video cables with the console, or even support them at local retailers! For the money its making on each console it wouldn’t have busted the bank to include Component Video out of the box. It would seem N wants us all to play at 480i at all costs, even if the console supports 480p. Its the GC all over agian.




The Wii is a great system, BUT
By unbaisedgamer on 12/19/2006 1:42:39 PM , Rating: 2
The Wii will lose its appeal come 2008.

Graphics will kill the Wii. If you don't think it will you're being ignorant. In 2008 Wii owners will be playing what look like a Nintendo 64 title vs a 5th generation PS2 title like Gran Turismo 4 or MGS3. The difference will be that prevelant once HDTVs become more common as they will and already becoming.




By arswihart on 12/18/2006 8:47:35 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You are being raped by nintendo. Stop and think before you flame me and we begin a needless war. Nintendo has stuck a stick onto 5 year old hardware, charges a ridiculously expensive price for it, and are hailed as heroes.


You should be happy for Nintendo, they've had it tough in past years, and you can't argue with the fun games that are available only for the Wii.




LOL @ all the Console NOOBS
By Oxygenthief on 12/19/06, Rating: 0
The truth revealed
By Tilmitt on 12/18/06, Rating: -1
RE: The truth revealed
By Frank M on 12/18/2006 8:24:14 AM , Rating: 1
It smells like sony fanboy in here.


RE: The truth revealed
By Tilmitt on 12/18/06, Rating: -1
RE: The truth revealed
By masher2 (blog) on 12/18/2006 8:35:23 AM , Rating: 4
The worth of an entertainment device is in how much fun it delivers, not in the wholesale cost of its hardware components. By your logic, if the Wii were half as fun and twice as expensive to produce, it'd be a great deal.


RE: The truth revealed
By bplewis24 on 12/18/2006 11:02:45 AM , Rating: 3
And by your logic if the Wii were the most fun console ever it would also justify it being the highest priced console ever.

You left out a small detail there. It's value is determined by the worth (based on entertainment, usage, etc) to each individual consumer relative to the cost of it's components. That small detail makes a world of difference.

You want to know how I know it makes a world of difference? Because I made the same exact argument in a Sony article and I was immediately voted down to -1. However because you used it in a Nintendo article, you are voted up to 5. Like how that works? :)

Brandon


RE: The truth revealed
By masher2 (blog) on 12/18/2006 11:14:38 AM , Rating: 4
> "And by your logic if the Wii were the most fun console ever it would also justify it being the highest priced console ever."

That seems to make perfect sense. The amount I'm willing to pay depends on its worth to me...not on how much it cost the manufacturer to produce it.

> "I made the same exact argument in a Sony article and I was immediately voted down to -1..."

So you admit you used the same logic yourself...and yet you still disagree with me? A strange debating tactic you have there. :p

> "However because you used it in a Nintendo article, you are voted up to 5...."

Those same voters have downrated me to -1 many times as well, so don't feel too bad. There are some people here who vote for the wrong reasons. Still, that doesn't change the essential argument. The Wii is an entertainment device...its value to the consumer is relative to how much fun it provides, not the wholesale cost of its circuits and casing.





RE: The truth revealed
By rushfan2006 on 12/18/2006 11:29:45 AM , Rating: 3
I'd just add does it really matter about the voting system. Express what *you* (not what the media tells you to, not what your buddies say, not what some TV commercial portrays)...feel is right/the main point whatever. Even if its waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off base with what I think for example...and even if we bicker back and forth at least its not constrained by some silly voting system. You know the times I vote down people....the times I can tell it really burns them....that's it...lol. At that's reserved only for rare cases...as I've only voted down someone maybe a half dozen times in the last YEAR.

(and two of those times was because it was someone I know...and I'll vote him down just because....lol).

But its not like voting rating on these site matters your wife/gf isn't going to be turned on more by a great voting record....lol.



RE: The truth revealed
By rykerabel on 12/18/2006 4:45:00 PM , Rating: 4
/agree

though I'm usually voting people back up from a -1 just so others can see their posts (not the inane senseless -1 posts, just the "unpopular opinion" -1 posts)

As for the WiiPlayXBox360Station3, who cares what everyone else thinks. I read people's posts who disagree with me specifically to see if they know something I don't. Often they do, but that doesn't always change my opinion.

Personally, I'm going to wait for a PS3 because the Wii just seems too much like a gimmick and the 360 is already old. Thats just my opinion and my preference and if you disagree with me than thats your opinion and your preference and good for you.

Enjoy your console your way and to heck with my opinion and everyone else's.


RE: The truth revealed
By bplewis24 on 12/18/2006 5:16:22 PM , Rating: 1
While I agree the voting system isn't that big a deal, it does have some impact on this site. I can no longer vote and I can only post by verifying that I'm not a "robot" despite the fact that I don't post any "fanboy" rants nor do I insult people. But since I've been rated down so many times in the past 2 weeks I've been flagged as a potential troll or robot apparently.

Brandon


RE: The truth revealed
By DagTM on 12/18/2006 7:47:23 PM , Rating: 2
I can no longer vote either... however I'm not aware that my posts have been hammered like some people's have been. Bit of a shame, as I quite enjoy reading threads and voting up posts that express arguments well - even if I don't agree with them, you can't have a debate without two sides! :)


RE: The truth revealed
By Le Québécois on 12/18/2006 10:04:06 PM , Rating: 2
It's the new rating system.

Here's what Kristopher had to say about it 13 days ago:
quote:
By KristopherKubicki on 12/5/2006 3:45:59 AM , Rating: 2
Everyone who has an account has the ability to moderate up or down. We've noticed a problem and are working on giving fewer points to members with lower post counts and lower post scores.

Kristopher


So it's to prevent people from having multiple accounts with no post just so they could(in the past, not anymore with the new system) vote down or up people for no reason. It also prevent people with very low ratings(most likely persons who will always try to start flame wars) to mod down other people just for revenge.


RE: The truth revealed
By bplewis24 on 12/18/06, Rating: 0
RE: The truth revealed
By Samus on 12/18/06, Rating: 0
RE: The truth revealed
By Le Québécois on 12/18/2006 10:17:18 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
I guess all you morons forgot home much R&D went into the motion control systems for the console. MILLIONS.


Well on behalf of all the morons I will speak and say that I guess you forgot that neither Microsoft nor Sony received their R&D blueprints for their new console as a gift from Santa.


RE: The truth revealed
By selfexiled on 12/22/2006 12:47:07 PM , Rating: 3
R&D is Sunk Cost, cannot be recovered as it is a fixed "initial" investment that does not generate revenue directly.

In economics they teach you not to let sunk costs affect your decisions. The idea that any company prices a product to recover R&D costs is ridiculous. You capitalize on R&D through patents not through assigning arbitrary costs to a product to recoup loss.


RE: The truth revealed
By WhiteBoyFunk on 12/19/2006 12:58:49 PM , Rating: 2
Let's talk logic then, shall we?

If your description of value determined by worth is so accurate, then why are Mustangs or STis so high-priced? They might seem like great cars but hear this; I can take a 1990 300zx for six grand and make it handle better, take off faster and basically outperform either one. But of course, it won't be worth nearly as much as either of the two trendy cars. You say value is determined by worth, I say it's not. I think it has something to do with demand .


RE: The truth revealed
By Fenixgoon on 12/18/2006 11:15:23 AM , Rating: 3
.....so what's wrong with making a PROFIT off of your product? last i checked, it's better than selling at a loss, at least financially. and given the wii's more attractive price, it's sold well and will continue to do so, i'm sure.


RE: The truth revealed
By rushfan2006 on 12/18/2006 11:33:33 AM , Rating: 5
Yeah well basically I think its crazy that at the central point to this thread's "arguing" is because Nintendo made a profit and Sony and MS lost money on their initial system rollouts.

I say good for Nintendo (and its shareholders).....Never begrudge a legit/lawful business (for as much as we know its lawful anyway) honest success....its kind of the same line of thinking of "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you..."


RE: The truth revealed
By StevoLincolnite on 12/18/2006 8:31:35 AM , Rating: 4
If your referring the Wii's Hardware to the Game cube, your wrong they aren't even the same.
Mind you the Wii's hardware was more evolutionary than revolutionary. Memba' the Nintendo 64? That had a 94Mhz Processor.... 4Mb of ram, (8MB with the Expansion).
Yet it amazingly ran 3D Games!? Woah! I wonder If my old Pentium 133 Could outperform it!?
Bleh, And Hardware DOESN'T make the system, It DOESN'T lower the quality of the games, A great game is not one thats based entirely on Graphics, I Still play StarCraft Religiously Every night, and that still Uses Isometric 2D Graphics.

If you don't like the Wii, don't play it, And don't Bitch about it. And you can shove your over Priced PS3 up your ass.


RE: The truth revealed
By Tilmitt on 12/18/06, Rating: 0
RE: The truth revealed
By Chase Tacos on 12/18/06, Rating: 0
RE: The truth revealed
By Targon on 12/18/2006 11:22:54 AM , Rating: 4
I don't have a Wii, and don't plan to get one. I am saying this to put things in perspective. I'm a PC gamer, but that doesn't stop me from following what has been going on in the console market.

Now, the point of a game console, be it a small portable type, or a regular console that connects to a larger screen is to allow the player to have fun. The PS3 and XBox 360 are more focused on your "typical console gamer", and the focus is in the action market, with shooters being the big titles you see, with a few others out there.

Nintendo aims for a different market, and as a result, the type of games will tend to be a bit different. Sure there may be some overlap, but look at the focus, and the "target audience". If the target audience is happy with the product, and you don't like it, then you just need to accept that every popular product isn't for you.

Look at the games that have done well over the years. War games and shooters lend themselves to the Xbox 360 and PS3. You seem to fit into that category since improved graphics and features mean more to you than improvements to gameplay. The older game players who remember the late 70s and early 80s know that improved graphics don't automatically make a game better.

So, accept the wisdom of your elders and understand that just because YOU don't care for something means that it isn't a good product.


RE: The truth revealed
By jtyson on 12/18/2006 9:01:23 AM , Rating: 1
Whoa there, big fella. How's about we all just take a minute to simmer down. Nobody's saying that the Wii is a bad system. Heck, anybody who has actually played the thing will tell you how incredibly fun it can be (I just bought my second one this weekend). I think the focus of the article was to show everybody something that everybody alread knew: The Wii is not a showcase of technical prowess. I know that, you know that, everybody knows that. To be honest, though, it is SLIGHTLY disappointing to see that %100 of the innovation behind the Wii went into the controllers, and %0 went into the actual console. But I guess it's kind of like pop music; some of us choose not to listen to it because we know what little work went into making it, and what little personal meaning the more-than-likely ghost-written lyrics hold, while some of us just care about the end result: does it sound good? Or in this case, is it fun? The answer is, without question, a yes.


RE: The truth revealed
By WhiteBoyFunk on 12/19/2006 1:01:49 PM , Rating: 1
This guy knows what he's talking about. Thumbs up. To the others...


t('.' t)


RE: The truth revealed
By lufoxe on 12/18/2006 8:41:10 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I am lost for words as to how needlessly crippled graphics

Well.. needless to say you aren't the target, bet you didn't play katamari damaci. A game that looks like it belongs on the N64 or early dreamcast. While looking absolutely horrendous, it was fun and innovative.
quote:
charges a ridiculously expensive price for it

umm... who's not paying $600? oh I'm sorry $599.99.
quote:
I can't believe you guys think that a motion stick can somehow makes up for this

It's not all in the controller, the controller itself can be interesting, but it's rather HOW it's implemented. A perfect example of this is the Nintendo DS. The PSP kills it in graphics, (no denying that) BUT, to my knowledge, there is no game on it that is like Wario Ware, another game that looks like crap, but is all too fun.


RE: The truth revealed
By Tilmitt on 12/18/06, Rating: -1
RE: The truth revealed
By jtyson on 12/18/06, Rating: -1
RE: The truth revealed
By Quiksel on 12/18/2006 9:49:13 AM , Rating: 5
while your point is well taken, there's absolutely no reason for you to be "NOT fine with that". Companies make money. They work for it by creating products that people want to buy. You want a Wii, right? How much are you willing to pay for a Wii? They set the price tag for $250 (and no, being smart about creating your product and making money from the start is no reason to complain, people), and the market has responded well at $250. So just because you don't like people making money off of you, don't bash their product. It's a great deal, and here's why:

Heck, the Wii is selling more units, not only because they are producing more, but because their pricepoint is so much lower than their competition. They look better because they are so cheap. It's fun for all ages, is unique, and cheap. Seems like a triple threat if you ask me!! Sure, compare the Wii to the PS2 or XBox, but that's not new, and they have certainly innovated enough to generate a "value-added" improvement perception over the GameCube, so it's still justified for a new console to take the place of the GC, IMO.

So at the end of the day, this is good news for Nintendo's bottom line, both on producing units, as well as marketshare in the new next-gen console race. Don't bash em, you're just mad they are making money on a worthwhile business concept.

~quiksel


RE: The truth revealed
By KernD on 12/18/2006 9:50:22 AM , Rating: 2
Your wrong, Nintendo can't sell there console at a loss like the other two, there a game company, not a software or electronic giant like the other two, they have no other business to fall back on if they fail to get there money back by selling games for there console. That is exactly what Sega tried to do and look what happened to them.

They have a duty to bring in profit for there shareholders and if it will sell well at this price then it's a good starting price, anyway if they would have sold it at 200$ US they still wouldn't have sold more console this year. Anyway they don't count in the development cost for the hardware in this article.


RE: The truth revealed
By jtyson on 12/18/06, Rating: -1
RE: The truth revealed
By PrinceGaz on 12/18/2006 11:41:07 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
That's all fine and good, but neither one of your arguments tackled my original point: the console is worth less than what I'm paying for it, compared to the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, which are worth MORE than I'm paying for them (and I'm talking monetary value, not "fun value", or any other magoo term you wish to coin).


The Wii is sold as a games-console for the purposes of providing entertainment by playing games, not as a box containing a specific bundle of computer hardware at a certain price. Most people buy game-consoles to play games on, rather than taking them to bits to cannabilise the components for other purposes. Therefore "fun value" is the true measure of how much a games-console is worth, not how much the hardware inside the box is worth when all the components are added up.

quote:
The lack of a HDD or DVD-movie playback detracts (severely) from it's value. Recent rumors indicate that Nintendo will be releasing a version of the Wii that plays DVDs, and may even support High Definition, but this will both alienate those of us who have already purchased a Wii, and confuse those who haven't.


The Wii is marketed as a games-console, not as a DVD player. People buy the Wii to play games rather than watch movies. Who in the right mind would want to watch a DVD on their game console when you can buy a proper dedicated DVD player for next to nothing these days, which does the job of playing DVDs a lot more elegantly than any games-console ever has.

The lack of a HDD is irrelevant because it has sufficient flash-memory to satisfy the requirements of a games-console of storing saved game positions. Again, it is not a media player so there is no need for the sort of storage capacity that would allow movies to be downloaded.

You're the first person I've ever heard mention a high-def Wii; I consider it very unlikely that will ever happen as the games would still be standard-definition so there would be no benefit to it.

quote:
But most importantly, the controller will cripple the Wii's library. By jumping headlong into motion-sensing technology without allowing developers time for a gradual migration, Nintendo has alienated themself from the rest of the gaming industry, rather than set the trend (third party support for the Wii is EXTREMELY light).


You are good at making up convincing arguments, but what you say is totally incorrect. The Wii has excellent third-party support. This list certainly shows a lot of support:

http://uk.wii.gamespy.com/articles/732/732791p1.ht...

quote:
Nintendo will go down in history as having created one of the most innovative consoles ever, but when all the buzz dies down and the Wiis stop flying off the shelves, everybody's going to take a step back from their Wii and say, "Well, I guess I got what I paid for. A lot less."


I think that when people take a step back and look at the Wii, they are more likely to think "It was one of the most innovative consoles ever, the first to break away from the limitations of the standard gamepad controller and open up a whole new world of gaming."


RE: The truth revealed
By KernD on 12/18/2006 12:36:02 PM , Rating: 5
Every thing you ever buy is worth less then you pay for, except for some gaming consoles and ink jet printers.

I think it's only normal to have a profit margin for the manufacturer and the retailers. What isn't normal is that some product are designed from the ground's up to be sold at a loss. The competition for best graphic of the console generation is just getting out of hand. Nintendo just decided not to fall in that trap, and found some other great way to sell a product... great gameplay.


RE: The truth revealed
By PrinceGaz on 12/18/2006 11:06:52 AM , Rating: 3
I don't know why people have down-rated you as what you say is entirely correct, and in no way reflects badly upon Nintendo deciding not to subsidise the console. I was going to give you +1 instead but your post would still be rated down so a reply supporting it is better.

The fact of the matter is that at $250, the Wii offers excellent value-for-money in terms of the amount of fun that most people get out of it; arguably better than the somewhat more expensive XB360 and PS3. It makes no difference that Nintendo make a profit on each console sold, whereas the hardware in the XB360 and PS3 is subsidised; the value-for-money of a games-console is determined not by how much the hardware inside the box is actually worth, but by how much fun can be had from playing games on it.

Presumably, people who think Nintendo are wrong to make a profit on it would rather see it subsidised and priced at $150 or less. That would be nice but it would be stupid for Nintendo to do so when they cannot make enough of them to satisfy demand at $250. The reason Microsoft and Sony are forced to subsidise the XB360 and PS3 is because sales would seriously suffer if they were sold at full cost-price. Nintendo are in the happy position of being able to make money and gain a lot of satisfied customers.


RE: The truth revealed
By jtyson on 12/18/2006 11:33:26 AM , Rating: 3
I suppose there is a big difference between choosing to sell a console for less, and being forced to sell it for less because the actual price would be unreasonable. Point taken, thanks.


RE: The truth revealed
By ebakke on 12/18/06, Rating: 0
RE: The truth revealed
By KernD on 12/18/2006 12:19:48 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry my english isn't good enough for you, I'll work on it, just like I work on my french and it's still flawed.


RE: The truth revealed
By WhiteBoyFunk on 12/19/2006 1:09:46 PM , Rating: 2
Would you like if some of us analyzed your writing skills, grammar and the lot? No. I'm sure you wouldn't. I doubt it would be hard to find errors in your writing not to mention lack of an adequate flow. Stick to topic and stop bickering, ffs.

Btw: Your name reminds everyone of Bukkake...You might want to change it.


RE: The truth revealed
By xphile on 12/21/2006 6:36:38 AM , Rating: 3
Bigger Dumbshit:

It is NOT "ie", it is "i.e.". It stands for the latin "id est" meaning "that is", which are two words which are punctuated in everyday english use. You have used the wrong spelling not once but indeed FIVE times.


"you're: a contraction. ie: You're wrong."

No, you would say:

"you're: a contraction. I.E. You ARE Wrong." You can not properly describe a contraction unless you in reverse expand it back out - simply repeating it as you have is no way to explain it.

The same goes for "They ARE a game company", except in accepted english usage it would actually be: "They ARE a gamING company"


"there: a position or locaiton."

Would this be the "locaiton" where your head is so far up your ass you are unable to post on topic about the actual subject at hand, or would this be the "locaiton" where your own ignorance is doubly proven in trying to take the high and mighty position of putting somebody else down (for no reason) only to end up showing how utterly inadequate you were to ever even open your mouth on the subject in the first place.

You're out alright - out of your mind for ever thinking you were intelligent enough to even touch the keyboard in the first place.


RE: The truth revealed
By Ochophosphate on 12/18/2006 5:37:43 PM , Rating: 2
So, when Microsoft makes advancements in their production methods and they are eventually making 360's for less than they're selling them, you're suddenly going to be "not fine" with the 360 anymore??

I bought a PSTwo (skinny) a year back, and I'm almost certain that they are able to manufacture those for less than the buck-fitty I shelled out for it.

I don't really think $250 is outrageous for a system + game.. When I bought my Gamecube it was $199, and the games I bought with it were $49 a pop. If you figure inflation and the mild uptick in tech... yes, the Wii is more advanced than the GCN, even if it's only a wii bit more (sorry, couldn't resist)... then it seems to be in the right ballpark.

I'm not really an early adopter of tech. I buy processors and motherboards (chipsets) late. I won't pay more than $200 for a graphics card... and I doubt I'll pay more than $300 for a gaming system (system alone). I don't have the time these days to get my money's worth out of such purchases.

Amen to the guy pimping Starcraft a few posts down. Old graphics that ran on old tech (I think I first played it with a P166 mhz, 16mb Voodoo3, 64mb ram) but quite possibly the most fun game I ever played. And I played the snot out of it for 3 years+. I still have it loaded on my current system, just in case I get the itch.


RE: The truth revealed
By masher2 (blog) on 12/18/06, Rating: 0
RE: The truth revealed
By bplewis24 on 12/18/2006 10:52:58 AM , Rating: 2
You are exactly right. However like I've said many times before, logic and objectivity don't count for much. If you don't hail Nintendo and/or bash Sony then you get rated down. So it's just somethin we have to live with :)

In fact, I've just noticed that I've been rated down so much on this forum for pointing out inconsistencies in logic from posters and trying to inject some objectivity into the discussions that I now have to verify I'm not a "robot" before each post I make. I'm sure that makes the voters here real proud of themselves.

It's not like it has a big impact on the real world, now does it?

Brandon


RE: The truth revealed
By lemonadesoda on 12/18/2006 4:16:47 PM , Rating: 3
Hey Mash... in case you haven't noticed... there's been a big change in the demographic profile of the average DailyTech member. Informed, balanced, objective voting went out about 6 months ago.


RE: The truth revealed
By bplewis24 on 12/18/2006 5:19:18 PM , Rating: 2
You got that right.

Brandon


RE: The truth revealed
By StevoLincolnite on 12/18/2006 11:15:39 AM , Rating: 2
You Forget Nintendo is only in 1 Market, Microsoft and Sony in Several others.
You have to think of the Research and Development costs, Initial Costs of building and stock piling the consoles, And not to mention Advertisement!
And the Wii's Graphics ARE able to surpass that of the Xbox 1.
Games just haven't been optimized fully to take advantage of the system, Why do you think games on the PS3 look about the Same as the 360? Its all in the code.

Its also known the the graphics card in the Wii is -not- a Geforce 3/4 Hybrid that was in the original Xbox, Nor does it have a Celeron/Pentium 3 Hybrid processor either.


Wii:

CPU: PowerPC based "Broadway" processor @ 729Mhz
GPU: ATI "Hollywood" GPU @ 243Mhz
Memory:
* 88 MB main memory (24 MB "internal" 1T-SRAM integrated into graphics package, 64 MB "external" GDDR3 SDRAM)[33]
* 3 MB GPU texture memory.

Xbox:

CPU: 733 MHz Intel Custom Pentium III

GPU: 250 MHz Custom-Designed NV2X

Memory: Micron 64 MB DDR SDRAM

Gamecube:

CPU: modified PowerPC G3 750 RISC @ 485 MHz

GPU: "Flipper" @ 162Mhz

Memory: 24Mb of ram

The Wii wasn't built with HD in mind, Like the DS they wanted a different way of playing games, And is it Innovative? Hell yeah!


RE: The truth revealed
By WhiteBoyFunk on 12/19/2006 1:05:34 PM , Rating: 2
Someone please get this kid some fking wine. I mean come ON! You have been crying about this since the blog was posted.

The Wii is a ridiculous price for what you get. The phat profits Nintendo are making on launch day only serves to reinforce how crippled and overpriced the console is.

I know I'm not the only person here who fell off their chair laughing after reading this. LoL


RE: The truth revealed
By Ramshambo on 12/18/2006 9:03:29 AM , Rating: 4
I tend to agree. Couldn't they have just put a a little more muscle into the graphics? I know Zelda was made for the gamecube and the actual graphics are good enough, but to play it in 480p on a 60" High Def screen makes my eyes bleed.

(Bashing more on the lack of 720p/1080i support not the actual graphics as I think slightly more powerful hardware would be needed for that.)


RE: The truth revealed
By mrEvil on 12/18/2006 1:33:12 PM , Rating: 2
Look at the specs for both the 360 and PS3. For Nintendo to stay in their price range (250), they had to leave something out. Thus, HD did not make the cut. Actually, I'm sure that it was not even thought of by them for this round. For 720p/1080i, not only would they have had to upgrade the GPU, but the CPU and RAM as well.

480p ~ 236k pixels
720p ~ 829k pixels

I'm playing on 480p on a 50" HD screen. Would I love 720p/1080i support, sure, but I'm not complaining about 480p based on the price and the fact that the Wii actually got my wife involved in gaming. Still doubt I'll ever get her to play Gears or anything else on the 360.


RE: The truth revealed
By dubldwn on 12/18/2006 3:27:40 PM , Rating: 2
480p ~ 236k pixels
720p ~ 829k pixels

Could you show me the math on that?


RE: The truth revealed
By Bowsky on 12/18/2006 6:26:08 PM , Rating: 2
480p:
720x480 = 345600 pixels

720p:
1280x720 = 921600 pixels

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/480p
The numbers are a little off, but the point remains the same. Going from 480p to 720p is no easy jump power wise.


RE: The truth revealed
By glennpratt on 12/23/2006 1:24:45 PM , Rating: 2
If you want your wife to play 360, may I suggest XBL Arcade. Specifically Marble Blast Ultra (this game is like crack to me), Hexic HD. Amped 3 is a decent full blown game for females. Not to generalize, but many females seem to like games where you can customize your character. Even tiger woods for example.

But if you already have a Wii, then you probably got the wife covered.