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  (Source: saferautomobiles.com)
The NHTSA is now preparing to finalize the regulation

The White House has finished its review of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's (NHTSA) proposal to mandate event data recorders (EDR) in all new vehicles.

Now that the White House Office of Management Budget has completed the review, the NHTSA is preparing to finalize the regulation. The proposal suggests increasing the number of new vehicles with EDRs from 91.6 percent today to 100 percent of light-duty cars and trucks.

Event data recorders, also known as "black boxes," collect driver data such as speed, use of a seatbelt, whether brakes were applied, etc. before and after a vehicle crash. The idea behind them is to deploy better safety measures for vehicles as well as better overall vehicle design.

The NHTSA originally said it'd create a proposal for the White House concerning EDR regulation by the end of 2011. After doing so, the White House Office of Management Budget delayed comment or review for a year.

Back in August of this year, the NHTSA rejected the White House's request for further delay of the black box standards.

Some automakers already place EDRs in all of their vehicles, such as Ford, General Motors Mazda and Toyota.

The road to EDR regulation hasn't been all smooth, though. The Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, which includes Toyota, Volkswagen AG and Detroit's Big Three, had issues with both driver privacy and the cost of these black boxes.

The Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers complained in May 2010 that the black boxes suggested by the government were too expensive to deploy in all vehicles. Further, it stated that EDRs could potentially be abused by the government.

"Event data recorders help our engineers understand how cars perform in the real world but looking forward, we need to make sure we preserve privacy," said Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers spokeswoman Gloria Bergquist. "Automakers do not access EDR data without consumer permission, and any government requirements to install EDRs on all vehicles must include steps to protect consumer privacy."

In April of this year, the U.S. Senate passed a highway bill called the "Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century Act", also known as MAP21. The bill aimed to require all new 2015 model year vehicles to have black boxes for record vehicle data.

Source: The Detroit News



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Wonder what else...
By espaghetti on 12/7/2012 1:20:21 PM , Rating: 5
At what point do we Americans forget we are free?
Have we already?
I happen to know what these people are "progressing" toward and I want ZERO to do with it.




RE: Wonder what else...
By headbox on 12/7/2012 3:20:42 PM , Rating: 5
Who cares. Football is on TV!


RE: Wonder what else...
By Schadenfroh on 12/8/2012 8:31:40 PM , Rating: 2
*Watch football
*Drink beer
*Reproduce
*Consume


RE: Wonder what else...
By Omega215D on 12/9/2012 12:15:14 AM , Rating: 2
Or with the majority of college students:

I'll vote for Obama because he's a fresh face. Other than that it's time to vote on [insert reality show here].

Yes, I've seen this diocy first hand when I was in college


RE: Wonder what else...
By Schadenfroh on 12/9/2012 2:33:50 AM , Rating: 3
Many like the fact that one can be considered a man-child that can remain on their parents' insurance till their 26... and still get to vote, buy booze, tobacco, and guns!

Personally, I'm in the college student camp that prefers libertarians like Gary Johnson... legal recreational marijuana for all!


RE: Wonder what else...
By sweetca on 12/7/2012 3:37:02 PM , Rating: 1
Let us not get too excited here folks. Your car may have a black-box, but this does not automatically confer upon the government the ability to use its contents against you.


RE: Wonder what else...
By Ammohunt on 12/7/2012 5:59:34 PM , Rating: 2
The process of incrementalism applies towards erasing freedom. People have to ask themselves how far do they trust the Government; if your answer is implicitly! then you already have your yoke and are not part of this conversation.


RE: Wonder what else...
By SRHelicity on 12/8/2012 12:39:30 AM , Rating: 2
What kind of car do you drive? There's a good chance that the car you drive right now already has a "black box", since they've been around since the 1990s. According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety: "NHTSA estimated that about 64 percent of 2005 model passenger vehicles had the devices. By 2005, General Motors, Ford, Isuzu, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Subaru and Suzuki were all voluntarily equipping all of their vehicles with EDRs, according to NHTSA. 2 Recent information from NHTSA indicates that 91.6 percent of new passenger vehicles have EDRs...."

Note that this is BEFORE the "mandate" listed in the article. Again, there's a good chance that you're vehicle already has a black box in it...


RE: Wonder what else...
By inperfectdarkness on 12/8/2012 7:24:38 AM , Rating: 1
1995 Mitsubishi. And no, it does NOT have a black box.


RE: Wonder what else...
By Piiman on 12/8/2012 9:28:21 AM , Rating: 2
Well aren't you special! Do you drive around with a cell phone? If so you're already tagged.


RE: Wonder what else...
By inperfectdarkness on 12/8/2012 12:04:27 PM , Rating: 2
No. I have a bong I make smoke-signals with instead.


RE: Wonder what else...
By NellyFromMA on 12/10/2012 2:40:29 PM , Rating: 2
Gov doesn't care about illegal search and seizure, ESPECIALLY regarding electronic logs.

Gov doesn't care about placing GPSs on vehicles without warrent either.

The warrant only matters to them if they get caught doing something without it. So, they just get better at lying.


RE: Wonder what else...
By Jeffk464 on 12/7/2012 4:46:35 PM , Rating: 2
I would argue that the US is one of the least "free" countries in the Western World. Somewhere along the way we went from being a free country to having laws and rules for every possible thing you can think of. In LA their is a law against throwing a football on the beach, get that.


RE: Wonder what else...
By Omega215D on 12/9/2012 12:16:31 AM , Rating: 2
Well, the UK may be tied with us..


RE: Wonder what else...
By RufusM on 12/10/2012 10:19:10 AM , Rating: 2
The black box is not inherently bad. It can provide great detail in the events surrounding an accident, disprove lies told by the participants in a case, help improve auto safety design from the collected data, etc.

It's the rules and laws surrounding its use that I fear. It needs to be subject to standard private property search and seizure rules and laws. The police should not be able to get its data without a warrant. Insurance companies are on a need to know basis and only if it impacts certain things they are concerned with. The only actionable data should be the immediate data directly relating to the incident at hand, etc.

For example, if I'm in an car crash the police that kills someone the police should be able to collect data for criminal prosecution purposes. During their collection, however, they should not be allowed to ticket me for speeding violations it recorded over the past week (assuming it even stores that much data).


RE: Wonder what else...
By NellyFromMA on 12/10/2012 2:38:14 PM , Rating: 2
Been there done that. Few people care. Convenience over freedom is the new way. Don't you dare suggest how society got that way either, you might get lynched.


Not for me
By jardows on 12/7/2012 1:30:28 PM , Rating: 3
Yet, another good reason to buy an old car that you can work on, and just keep it running as long as you can! I wonder what the penalties would be for removing the "black box" from your car?




RE: Not for me
By robertisaar on 12/7/2012 1:52:03 PM , Rating: 2
the only penalty will likely be an airbag lamp being on all of the time and disabled airbags.....

all GM vehicles with airbags use the airbag module as a "black box" that records data in the event of airbag deployment. have been ever since airbags first started appearing in GM vehicles.


RE: Not for me
By othercents on 12/7/2012 2:10:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The proposal suggests increasing the number of new vehicles with EDRs from 91.6 percent today to 100 percent of light-duty cars and trucks.


So majority of cars have EDRs, however the question is, who will have access to them? Once the government starts to mandate them (even if they already exist) they will also want to be able to get the data from them.

Other


RE: Not for me
By robertisaar on 12/7/2012 2:46:39 PM , Rating: 2
can't grab data from a "faulty" module. ;)

unplug it, send some unusually high voltage into it's 12V circuit and you're pretty much "off the grid".


RE: Not for me
By Mr Perfect on 12/7/2012 3:22:58 PM , Rating: 2
Assuming these things are "on-grid" to begin with. Baring the unlikely event these all have 3G radios in them and the government strikes some national deal with the cellular carriers to let a couple hundred million vehicles start broadcasting on their networks, you've probably got to unlock your car and let someone plug in an ODB2 or something inside your car.


RE: Not for me
By polishvendetta on 12/7/2012 3:39:18 PM , Rating: 2
i dont really understand what kind of data these things would be collecting that would need to be private. unless this thing is tracking your movement and has an onboard voice and video recorder in the cabin of the car then who cares?

the black box should if it is recording position only have the last 5-10 mins worth of data anyways.


RE: Not for me
By Noonecares on 12/7/2012 6:04:16 PM , Rating: 2
Remember that little hidden program on peoples smartphones that was collecting "useless" data... Then they would say oops, my bad. At least they got the data they wanted before being caught.


RE: Not for me
By TheDoc9 on 12/7/2012 10:08:14 PM , Rating: 2
Yep, my guess is they also record your gps data. Definitely a privacy concern.


RE: Not for me
By RufusM on 12/10/2012 10:25:30 AM , Rating: 2
This is part of the problem. We don't know what it's collecting, how long it's storing it, etc. There needs to be clarity of what's happening so there can be policy changes if they are found to be acting out of line with what is expected.


RE: Not for me
By NellyFromMA on 12/10/2012 2:41:53 PM , Rating: 2
3G, prob not. ad hoc hidden Wifi, quite possible.


It's About Time..
By TDMoses on 12/7/2012 11:55:50 PM , Rating: 2
I for one am glad they would implement a black box in a car. They are ideal for recording accidents and determining whose fault it could have been. Furthermore, if someone isn't wearing their seat belt when they are in an accident, they should be liable for their own injuries and these boxes can detect that. Plus, fraudulent fees due to "injuries" could be avoided by putting the recorded information into a model to determine worst case scenarios. If you get a ticket for something you didn't do, you now have proof. I only see a win win in this situation.




RE: It's About Time..
By Piiman on 12/8/2012 9:33:46 AM , Rating: 3
"If you get a ticket for something you didn't do, you now have proof. I only see a win win in this situation. "

No you don't unless you STOP driving until you can find someone to retrieve the data. They don't keep much data so if you continue to drive your "proof" will go Poof!


RE: It's About Time..
By TDMoses on 12/10/2012 1:49:53 AM , Rating: 1
Right, because having data goes poof is exactly how "Event data recorders help our engineers understand how cars perform in the real world."

Please don't just state random opinions and claim them to be fact. We are all throwing out theories here.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure they know how to program an EDR to compress data well so you get more than a few days worth of information.
1. You don't need to collect data for every second.
2. That takes up so little memory.
3. Thumb drives can hold over 100 GB.

I know the third one is a stretch since they won't use something that expensive or large, but the chance that your data would just go poof by driving a bit more is imo a joke.

There are many ways to deal with the scenario once having an EDR. So even if you were right about your data going "poof," you could still battle a ticket.


RE: It's About Time..
By Nfarce on 12/9/2012 10:18:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Furthermore, if someone isn't wearing their seat belt when they are in an accident, they should be liable for their own injuries and these boxes can detect that.


I'm pretty certain that the accident investigator at the scene can tell if someone was wearing their seat belt or not. Especially if the person's head went through the windshield.


RE: It's About Time..
By TDMoses on 12/10/2012 1:52:25 AM , Rating: 2
You don't think about all the 5mph accidents where people get sued and have to pay money to someone throughout their lifetime cause they claim they hurt their neck. This would be a great way to possibly stop this madness.


Sorry
By Dr of crap on 12/7/2012 1:20:01 PM , Rating: 1
"Event data recorders help our engineers understand how cars perform in the real world..."

IF that where true, changing the thermostat in my car, which should be very easy and very quick and something I could do myself, I wouldn't have had to pay almost $400 to have someone else to it becuase it's not in the "normal" location.

Cars wouldn't rust out in strange locations and cause trouble. Changing oil would cause a mess in some cars because the oil from the filter drips all over everything. Having to remove a motor mount and jack up the engine to change a spark plug in a V6 engine ( GM ).I could go on with stupid things I've seen, but why bother.

I've said for years, if the car makers wanted to make BETTER cars, buy back some of their 8 year old models and SEE WHERE THEY messed up in the design, and see what parts are failing on a regular basis.

It's all about the sales, and screw the person that owns the car after 5 plus years and has to get an expesive repair done because of their engineering screw up! Or talk to mechanics and find out the repeating problems their cars are having!
They know nothing about the bad reputation they are getting from their bad designs!!!




RE: Sorry
By DT_Reader on 12/7/2012 2:58:47 PM , Rating: 3
I used to work in the auto industry (Oldsmobile). Trust me, they know full well when they screw up. Like that V6 sparkplug issue you mention, most don't show up until it's too close to production to fix. Thanks to the EPA requirements, the lead time on automobile design is longer than you might think. The design must be final before EPA testing starts, the test cars must drive 50,000 miles before the design can be approved by the EPA, and the EPA must approve the design before production can begin.

They also buy used cars on the open market, as you suggest.

If it's a good idea, chances are you're not the first person to think of it. That goes for bad ideas, too :-)


RE: Sorry
By Iaiken on 12/7/2012 3:05:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I've said for years, if the car makers wanted to make BETTER cars, buy back some of their 8 year old models and SEE WHERE THEY messed up in the design, and see what parts are failing on a regular basis.


They don't have to buy the cars, they need to start having their existing service departments digitally document all non-scheduled maintenance and make it available to the manufacturer. This would give them a huge amount of data to farm information from and would allow them to be pro-active about quietly taking care of widespread problems instead of waiting for a full-blown recall.


Recorders
By bildan on 12/7/2012 1:30:34 PM , Rating: 2
Back in the Clinton administration a trial of driver voice recorders was conducted in Arkansas. After a year's worth of data was analyzed it was found the most probable "last words" of Arkansas drivers was, "Hold muh beer an watch this".




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