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Print 59 comment(s) - last by lexluthermiest.. on Feb 20 at 5:48 PM

Majority of all Xbox 360 failures are from Red Ring of Death

The vulnerability of the Xbox 360 to a hardware failure known as the Red Ring of Death is a well publicized matter. Last summer, amidst a flurry of reports from Xbox 360 owners, DailyTech exposed retailers’ estimates that up to 33 percent of Xbox 360 consoles experience hardware failures within the first year of ownership.

Electronics and appliances warranty company SquareTrade now claims that it found a 16.4 percent normal-use failure rate on the Xbox 360. The figure, if true, shows that Microsoft has steadily improved the reliability of its console considerably – though still not up to the level of general acceptability.

Microsoft chairman Bill Gates expressed earlier this year his aim for the Xbox 360 to be the most reliable console on the market. “We've got incredible reliability on the new work we've done,” he said. “Our commitment is that it will be the most reliable video game box out there. People really love the Xbox because of the content, but we've got to make sure that the hardware never stands in the way of that.”

According to SquareTrade, 60 percent of all Xbox 360 service calls were about the Red Ring of Death, which Microsoft refers to as “three flashing red lights.” In response to widespread reports of the console’s susceptibility to that particular error, Microsoft extended its warranty to cover the specific hardware failure for three years from purchase.

The remaining 40 percent were composed to hard drive failures, disc drive malfunctions, disc read errors and others. Such defects are, however, are covered only by the console’s current one year warranty (which the original report incorrectly states is 90-days).

In response to SquareTrade’s report, Microsoft spokesman Joe DiMiero told IGN, “Microsoft does not comment on hardware failure rates [emphasis by Microsoft], nor do we comment on speculation. We have not seen the report, and are unfamiliar with the agency that filed it. Based on the enthusiast community's feedback yesterday, the methodology of this report is suspect.”

A supposed anonymous Microsoft insider blamed the Xbox 360’s fragility on the company’s initial negligence on quality assurance, saying that the project was “under resourced” in test, quality, manufacturing, and supplier management. “There just weren't enough people to do the job that needed to be done. The leadership in many of those areas was also lopsided in essential skills and experience. But I hear they are really trying to staff up now based on what has happened, and how cheap staff is compared to a couple of billion in cost of quality,” the source wrote in an email.

Microsoft has gradually introduced new hardware revisions in hopes of solving the Red Ring of Death flaw. June 2007 saw a revised cooling design with heatpipe and heatsink to cool the GPU. New Falcon hardware that would include 65nm chip technology, which was later found to apply only to the CPU, landed in stores last Fall. The GPU’s shrink to 65nm GPU, codenamed Jasper, isn’t due until this August.





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Flawed?
By inighthawki on 2/18/2008 4:33:42 PM , Rating: 2
How many 360s does this statistic take into consideration? If all, then there is a major flaw. Obviously, the older 360s are going to be more prone to stability problems, and if these are included in the failure rate, then the percentage could be easily weighted. I would like to know specifically, what is the failure rate of 360s built in the past year...month...since the last revision, etc.




RE: Flawed?
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 2/18/2008 4:55:04 PM , Rating: 2
anecdotally, the first generation players seem to be the most stable. My pre-production Xbox 360 is still kicking around even after Anand and I ripped it to shreds:

http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=26...

The two more I purchased immediately after are also just fine.


RE: Flawed?
By kilkennycat on 2/18/2008 5:54:22 PM , Rating: 4
Hey, Kris

You may be interested in reading my comments posted 824 days ago after you and Anand tore the Xbox360 apart for the article to which you refer.

I have just pulled this from the Anand archives:-

=============== Original comment =========================

Thermal protection needs examination...please.......... by kilkennycat, 824 days ago

Seems as if a fan failure (or blockage of the inlet air passage) could potentially cause catastrophic failure of the critical silicon without effective thermal protection.

Anand, Kris, Tuan:-

Any idea of the nature and effectiveness of the thermal protection -- or wanna carry out a potentially destructive test by blocking up the inlet air on your presumably-rare Xbox360? An important issue for the TYPICAL technically-naive purchaser of the Xbox360, who is likely to be very careless about the Xbox360 ventilation and certainly will forget to regularly clear the inlet air-holes of sticky crud and junk. And what about the close-packed-finned heat-sink on the CPU? Such heat sinks on PC CPUs fill up completely with lint after about 6-9 months in a typical home environment. The Xbox360 is DELIBERATELY built to be non-user accessible for cleaning or any other purpose. A very big mistake. The internal air-duct should have been built on to a user-removable cover to expose the heat-sinks and fans for routine cleaning. I have had my share of cleaning out PCs that have become completely blocked up with crud, the first obvious symptom being erratic shut-down of the CPU by the motherboard thermal protection. The Xbox360 dissipates a lot of power in the core silicon --- much more than the old Xbox.

At present, I highly recommend taking a 2-year extended replacement warranty on the Xbox360, so that WHEN ( not IF) the heat-sinks fill up with junk (or the fans fail) and the box begins to function erratically, the owner can get a brand-new one :-) :-) :-)

================ end of original comment============

In a later comment, I pointed out the close proximity of the DVD drive to the (super-hot) CPU and GPU heat-sinks. The electro-mechanics of a DVD drive are just as thermally critical as the electro-mechanics of a hard-disk. The overall electronic packaging and thermal design of the Xbox360 is just plain lousy. And the additional GPU heat-sink is a joke, as it does not attempt to deal with the fundamentals of the problem.

I do have some qualifications as a professional hardware design engineer with extensive exposure to reliability testing. I suppose I should have offered my consultancy services to Microsoft with regard to cleaning up the Xbox360 design. A small fraction of that $1 billion dollars write-off would have given me some security in my retirement :-) :-)

I would be quite happy to consult with Microsoft on any future redesign of the Xbox360. No doubt the Xbox720 with an integrated Blu-ray drive and a re-hashed graphics (Dx9/Dx10) graphics engine cannot be too far away.

With regard to your current comments on the reliability of your present units:- Are they in a typical home environment, where lint, dog/cat-hair and non-ideal ventilation are likely to occur? Certainly all the fan-ventilated electronic equipment in my home - our various PCs - need a thorough heat-sink clean every nine months or so, otherwise the BIOS alarms (set reasonably conservatively) start wailing - and those high-density heat-sinks on the CPU and GPU are indeed found to be choked full of junk.


RE: Flawed?
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 2/18/2008 6:08:05 PM , Rating: 2
Haha -- I remember that comment. I thought I wrote you an email back.

I'm not sure if we ever ran an article on it, but we sent a few RROD 360s to electric diagnostic labs. Most confirmed the rupture of the traces from the GPU to the CPU, or somewhere in that vicinity.

I don't think we ever saw mechanical failure of the DVD drive due to overheating. But yeah, as you pointed out, most of those other failures were pretty obvious :)

Good work!


RE: Flawed?
By pomaikai on 2/19/2008 9:56:08 AM , Rating: 2
I won a 360 shortly after launch and it failed after about 1 year. I am actually thinking about picking up another one. The warranty process was so smooth that the failure rate will not deter me from picking up another one. When my 360 went out I went online and filled out a form. 2 days later a box came with a return box, tape, padding, prefilled out/prepaid shipping label, instructions. Within 5 minutes I had the 360 in the box taped up and ready to be dropped of at UPS. 3 weeks later I ended up with a new 360. Some people cant go 3 weeks without playing a game. Those people need to get a life.


RE: Flawed?
By jonrem on 2/19/2008 12:13:57 PM , Rating: 2
I commend Microsoft for how fast, easy and convenient it was getting my Xbox fixed, but I got some crappy refurb back that sounded like a jet engine. It is too distracting to even use. I can crank my speakers and still hear it. I've stopped playing 360 because of the noise, and I have 20 something games for it. It's not a RROD issue, so there is no recourse for me.


RE: Flawed?
By Samus on 2/19/2008 4:06:03 AM , Rating: 2
My XBOX is a launch box and it has probably 10,000 hours of use by now. Not a single problem.


RE: Flawed?
By joemoedee on 2/19/2008 8:40:59 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
My XBOX is a launch box and it has probably 10,000 hours of use by now. Not a single problem.


This is one argument/statement that I've seen numerous times here and on other forums.

I'm certain many others are in your boat, whereas a strong portion of users have had problems.

No one has said that all fail, it's just clear a large group of them have failed, or will fail in the future. This is evident by MS extending the warranty for the RROD failures, and is the only true fact we have to go on as far as the reliability of the console at this time.

One person's experience can not be parlayed into an overview of total experience.

Ex: My sister bought a new 1989 Hyundai Excel, which she had no problems with for 8 years.

However, statistically, it was one of the least reliable cars on the road at the time.

Due to her experience, you can not conclude that it was a reliable car for all of those that owned the car. It just was a reliable car for her. She was one of the lucky ones.

The same goes for those that have had a reliable Xbox 360. I certainly hope that it remains reliable for you, just like that old Hyundai Excel. ;p


RE: Flawed?
By lexluthermiester on 2/19/2008 2:42:05 PM , Rating: 1
Kris, glad you had better luck than me. I went through three, two at Best Buy and a third at Circuit City. After all three died, I decided to get a PS3. And what do you know?.. It worked the first time and has been working for about a year now. I've been using it as an all-in-one kind of system. It has Yellow Dog Linux installed as well as playing PS3 games and watching BD movies. It also does a good job upscaling my DVD collection. It is truly a sweet machine. XB360 has a handful of good games going for it... I think I'm going to stick with my Wii, PC and PS3. MS simply hasn't done very well in the past couple of years. Wonder why?...


RE: Flawed?
By wolfpack1825 on 2/19/08, Rating: 0
RE: Flawed?
By jonrem on 2/19/2008 5:42:38 PM , Rating: 2
I consider myself partial to Microsoft but there is a big problem. The fact that Microsoft has lost hundreds of millions rectifying this situation is better proof than anything your buddies on Live say.


RE: Flawed?
By lexluthermiester on 2/20/2008 5:29:09 PM , Rating: 1
Um, let's get things straight;

First, I'm a Nintendo fay boy[we call ourselves Nintendites, LOL!]. I love my Wii and NDS. I only said I admire what Sony has done with PS2 and PSP. The PS3 does rock! Show me ANY other game console as versatile as the PS3. Really, I dare you to try.... I honestly wish Nintendo would do something similar.

Second, Facts are facts. The defective rate for the 360 at one point was as high as 50% and is currently at 16%. 16 fricken percent!?! And after 2 and 1/2 years of manufacturing! That is pathetic by anyones standards and is the highest defective rate of ANY game console ever[PS1 formerly held that honor]! By way of comparison, the Wii and PS3 both are 3% and 4% defective rates. When the PS3 was first released it had a few over heating issues, which were quickly solved. The Wii hasn't had any issues at all[I don't count the wrist strap thing].

Third, "Real Gamers" play on the system they like best, whether it be a PC, a game console or a portable system. Being a "real gamer" is to have a passion for games, not an obsession with which system is best.

Fourth, Wolfpack1825, glad to hear that you've been problem free, good for you! But things for Microsoft ARE as bad as they seem. Calling me a "FAN BOI", which implies an insult, only shows the world how much of an ego you have, and clearly demonstrates your lack of maturity. Furthermore, your implication that "real gamers" only play on a 360 is one of the most ignorant and retarded statements I've read in some time. Thank You for giving me one seriously good laughing session. Feel free to do that again, laugh is good for the soul...


RE: Flawed?
By oab on 2/18/2008 5:02:46 PM , Rating: 2
It doesn't take in all 360's into consideration, only MS has that number. This number takes into account the numbers that this company had, presumably for their extended-warranty service plans that they covered.


RE: Flawed?
By mondo1234 on 2/18/2008 6:07:32 PM , Rating: 2
MS should blow off buying Yahoo and fix this instead.


RE: Flawed?
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 2/18/2008 6:10:08 PM , Rating: 2
In a way Microsoft did -- a 1.1 billion dollar program and formal apology:

http://www.dailytech.com/Microsoft+Extends+Warrant...


RE: Flawed?
By mondo1234 on 2/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: Flawed?
By Oregonian2 on 2/18/2008 8:57:48 PM , Rating: 2
Hard to fix the failure rate on machines already out there. Which is why stats ONLY on new machines is what would be interesting because its only those that show how much progress Microsoft has had. Even if 100% of every new machine worked perfectly for the next century, repair depot stats would go down only slowly. And that would be the best they could do even theoretically.


RE: Flawed?
By robinthakur on 2/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Flawed?
By theapparition on 2/19/2008 7:23:36 AM , Rating: 3
Complete BS.

Product recalls are only made when a product is a safety hazard and can cause personal injury. If the 360 was prone to catching fire, then it would be recalled, similar to what battery manufacturer's had to do recently.

Product warranties are meant to fix products in the event of failure due to materials or workmanship.

Seems pretty clear that this is a warranty issue, not a recall issue.


RE: Flawed?
By lexluthermiester on 2/20/2008 5:48:23 PM , Rating: 2
One of the few moves MS did right.


RE: Flawed?
By kelmon on 2/19/2008 5:34:19 AM , Rating: 2
The ship has sailed for me on this console. Regardless of what happens in the future the 360 was clearly a badly designed system rushed out the door to counter the PS3. When quality is not a factor in a systems development then I will not have anything to do with it. I wish Microsoft good luck on the successor and hope that they learn their lesson from this.


RE: Flawed?
By pomaikai on 2/19/2008 9:49:54 AM , Rating: 2
And PS3 was rushed out the door to compete with the 360. The only thing I heard for awhile was how good it was at Folding.


RE: Flawed?
By joemoedee on 2/19/2008 6:54:28 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
How many 360s does this statistic take into consideration?


Also, I am assuming this is SquareTrade's own warranty claims. Do they handle all of the warranty issues for MS? If not, I'm certain that the numbers are off as some that would even buy their warranty would go through MS instead.

Additionally, is this from launch or from some other arbitrary rate?

Logic would say from launch the numbers were higher, and subsequently have lowered due to each hardware revision.

I put it at this. A lot have failed, and a good bit more will continue to do so. MS is paying a lot of money to fix the problem.

If you want a 360, be warned that its reliability is lower than a PS3. How much lower? Only MS knows and they certainly will not release such information unless there's a successful lawsuit against them, and it's court ordered to release the actual numbers.

To try to put out some arbitrary failure percentage without all the actual data is useless.


RE: Flawed?
By theapparition on 2/19/2008 7:40:13 AM , Rating: 2
I find this report to be suspect in many ways. This information is solely based on their own data.

First off, they based it on a "sample size" of 1000 units. They are a warranty company........they should have readilly available data on total extended warranties purchased vs. the number of claims received.

Also of note is, of that 16% failure rate, only 60% of that is from RROD. That puts RROD failures under 10%.

I'm not trying to draw a conclusion, just that this report is suspect and incomplete.

quote:
Do they handle all of the warranty issues for MS?

Funny, Microsoft has never heard of them and also disputes this report.

quote:
To try to put out some arbitrary failure percentage without all the actual data is useless.

Well said.


Failure rate of new Xboxes
By watkinsaj on 2/18/2008 4:35:06 PM , Rating: 3
I've seen this reported in a couple of places, and nobody seems interested in the failure rate of the newer Xbox models.

Assuming the failure rate of the original models is still about 1 in 3, I'd guess the failure rate of the Elite and Arcade packs is a lot less than 16 percent.

I'm not trying to be biased here - I think we should have an accurate failure rate figure for the machines currently on sale.




RE: Failure rate of new Xboxes
By mondo1234 on 2/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: Failure rate of new Xboxes
By mmntech on 2/18/2008 6:58:35 PM , Rating: 2
The PS3's failure rate is typical for the electronics industry. Sony claims it's less than 1%, which is pretty much an industry standard. It's hard finding a strait answer though with all the fanboy sites corrupting search results.

16.8% is still unacceptable when you're selling millions of units. Consider that of the 230,000 Xbox 360s sold last month, the law of averages indicates that 38,640 will fail. Microsoft should not be content with this since they have to pay to replace all these defective consoles. Assuming it costs $250 to make a 360, that's $9.6 million lost in honoring warranties. The problem has to be in design since the parts themselves for all three consoles are all made by the same companies. I would like to see failure rates after the GPU die shrink. There are also rumors that the CPU could see a shrink to 45nm this year. What's going on with the GPU die shrink anyway?


RE: Failure rate of new Xboxes
By Mach Omega on 2/18/2008 9:48:07 PM , Rating: 3
No, 3% is generally regarded as acceptable. Less than 1% is exceptional, especially considering the PS3 contained a lot of brand new technology.


By Belard on 2/18/2008 7:53:19 PM , Rating: 3
Gotta love Bill! Hey, didn't he say the same thing about Windows...?

He can say it, but it has never happened. The 360 should have been designed better and bigger to deal with its issues.

33% is horrible, 16% is a good improvement.... but still BAD. I doubt they're going to hit PS3's 1% failure rate.

I gather the 16% failure rate is for NEW units? Not refurbs or current failure rates of older hardware?




By carbon12 on 2/18/2008 10:08:29 PM , Rating: 2
Reliability?

I hate the feeling that my car won't start or will just give up on me when I'm out on the road somewhere. It was like that in my college days. And before my computer was replaced at work, I hated the fact that I had to keep saving my work every 5 minutes because I didn't know when it was going to freeze up or crash on me.

The same goes for anything I own that sees constant use. I do not like not being able to count on certain things, even a gaming console.

Who would buy a car that's been known to have engines that fail in the first 2-3 years? Sure they say they've made improvements, but still.

Sure the 360 is not a car, but that reliability factor (no matter how much lower the failure rate is going to be with "revised" hardware) was a major deal breaker for me when it came time to for me to purchase a next gen console.


By IceTron on 2/19/2008 3:18:15 AM , Rating: 1
Go buy a Wii/PS3 then.


By carbon12 on 2/19/2008 12:37:14 PM , Rating: 2
Didn't do the Wii/PS3 combo, but I did do the 60g PS3 and Gaming PC combo which gets me a pretty good library of games and reliability.


Nope
By munim on 2/18/2008 6:44:38 PM , Rating: 3
http://au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/852/852669p1.ht...

Microsoft itself questions the validity of this pseudo-report. Last they checked, it was still 30%. I kid, I kid, it's probably higher. I kid again..




Preventative maintenance
By Manch on 2/19/2008 12:23:37 AM , Rating: 2
Since the 360 puts out so much heat I decided to do a little preventative maintenance on mine.
I have a laptop cooler that sits below my 360. I stuck those rubber standoffs on between the laptop cooler and the 360 to give extra space. I keep my brick off of the rug on a stand. I think this has prevented mine from going to an early grave or so I hope. I had to open up the cooler tho and get the fans to blow up vs down. It draws air in the front and blows cool air upward on the bottom of the 360. This also helps keep the ambient air around the 360 a bit cooler since it's constantly circulating. I found this solution works better than those cooling devices that you clip on. I may eventually upgrade to a newer one with hdmi and die shrink but as long as this one keeps working I have no reason to replace it.

Of all my friends that has had theirs fail fairly quickly, I noticed a couple trends. They all had them in a cabinet and the PS was usually behind it or behind the cabinet with little or no airflow for both. Thats just bad for electronics anyways but for a 360 that's a guaranteed death sentence.

If you do have any of your consoles in a cabinet or stand with the closed back. I recommend getting the large case fans say 2 120mm or 1 240mm and attach it to the back. The larger fans are quiet so you won't hear them and it will help keep the air moving.

No one should have to "rig" a cooling solution for a damn console but it's nice to know that if my furnace goes out I can can huddle up next to my 360 and ward of frostbite.




By kellehair on 2/19/2008 12:08:50 PM , Rating: 2
That's right. Just around the time MS extended the RROD warranty to 3 years my 360 got the RROD error. I sent it in and they fixed it for free. I wasn't too upset at this point. But just last night it happened again. Now I'm mad. What do I do now? Can I demand a new unit?




Still Ambiguous
By clovell on 2/19/2008 1:25:38 PM , Rating: 2
For those of you who don't want to read, you can just go ahead and rate me down now.

Again, we have another article with ambiguity about failure rates of the Xbox 360, with just enough information so as to seem credible to the masses. A few months ago, you provided us with fanboy fodder with the 'up to 33%' stuff, that was only referenced by what some schmuck on a forum thought and a few employees of one game retailer thought.

Now we get an article that supposed to be good news, but we really can't walk away with a good idea of what's really going on any more from this 'report' than we could with the last one. How current are these numbers? They include failures from when to when?? That would be helpful to know - because only then could we try to make some inferences as to what's actually going on.

To Marcus's credit, it seems he's made every effort to get his hands on that info - the sources he cites don't want to give it, either. Still, we're left with a fuzzy idea of what the RROD failure rate of the Xbox 360 really is.

Ready, set, downrate!




RROD at GDC 08
By Zark74 on 2/19/2008 8:27:19 PM , Rating: 2
Whoops! While walking around the Game Developers Conference today, the BBC observed that one of Microsoft's own demo Xbox 360's received the red ring of death, which usually indicates the hardware has failed. Here's the video they took to prove it

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166379




RROD at GDC 08
By Zark74 on 2/19/2008 8:29:13 PM , Rating: 2
Whoops! While walking around the Game Developers Conference today, the BBC observed that one of Microsoft's own demo Xbox 360's received the red ring of death, which usually indicates the hardware has failed. Here's the video they took to prove it

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166379




RROD at GDC 08
By Zark74 on 2/19/2008 8:32:48 PM , Rating: 2
Whoops! While walking around the Game Developers Conference today, the BBC observed that one of Microsoft's own demo Xbox 360's received the red ring of death, which usually indicates the hardware has failed. Here's the video they took to prove it:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166379




By mdogs444 on 2/18/2008 4:16:27 PM , Rating: 2
Christopher1, is that you?


By daftrok on 2/18/2008 4:17:04 PM , Rating: 2
No this is conebone69.


By theapparition on 2/19/2008 7:31:53 AM , Rating: 2
No, that's his uncle.


By therealnickdanger on 2/18/2008 4:19:45 PM , Rating: 2
... but somehow the massive library of great games and enormous online library of content helps you get through it all and enjoy your life.


By Hiawa23 on 2/18/2008 4:29:44 PM , Rating: 2
It's a shame MS was so scared of Sony & the PS3 that they rushed the 360s to market, I think partly knowing about some of the issues, but they were going to get the console out no matter what in 05. I have an 11/3/05 manufactured unit that I bought 11/22/05, & has done nothing but work flawlessly. When I was on vacation it got played 10hours straight for 5 days in a row with no issues, so I think I got a good one, but I have an extended warranty so if it goes, I will use that or just buy another one. Atleast they are trying to correct the problem, but this shouldn't happen in the first place. I hope they get it corrected cause the 360 & it's software is great, hate for them to lose out because consumers don't believe in the stability of the console.


By Gyres01 on 2/18/2008 5:23:51 PM , Rating: 2
Finally a new topic to get my mind off the BD - HD DVD.


By Belard on 2/18/2008 7:47:54 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft gambled to get the 360 to market ASAP since they lost to the PS2. The bigger the head-start, the more damage they would and DID do to the PS3. To have missed the 2005 Christmas season - it would have hurt their sales. Lets say the 360 came out 6 months later... some people would have waited for the PS3 to compare consoles and the number of games wouldn't have been so great.

But as you see... 33% and 16% failure rates is very high. And as posted above - the heat from the CPU/GPU can be a leading cause of drive failures... which is also a bit on high side.


By sweetsauce on 2/18/2008 10:16:54 PM , Rating: 2
It baffles me how people praise sony for putting blu in their system, then condemn microsoft for bringing their system out early. Both were strategic business decisions that obviously paid off. Sony effectively threw away any chance they had to overtake the 360 in the US by pricing their system so high. Microsoft, on the other hand, gambled by releasing the 360 early and knowing the risk of system failures. That gamble allowed microsoft to build an user base thats impossible to deny. Top it off with the fact that any quality game made for it sells over 1 million copies guaranteed and theres no doubt it was the right BUSINESS decision for them. They had to get developer support, or the 360 would die prematurely like the dreamcast did. Does it suck for the consumer, hell yes. Will it affect me getting their next system when it comes out, hell no.


By BansheeX on 2/19/2008 12:02:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
They had to get developer support, or the 360 would die prematurely like the dreamcast did.


Well, I'm glad you've got your hole all lubed and ready for next gen. I guess now we can expect to see this become standard practice if the consumer thinks it's necessary for his choice to release prematurely with lawnmower last-gen drives in order to get the jump on the userbase and subsequent developers. Thanks!


By sweetsauce on 2/19/2008 11:10:17 AM , Rating: 2
No need to rush into next gen since they are already handing sony their ass on this generation. Saying the 360 is dead in the water only proves how stupid and blind you are, but its expected from a sony fanboy. Look at some sale statistics buddy, microsoft has scoreboard over sony in every possible statistic, including the most important one SOFTWARE SALES. But you're right, im sure ubisoft and ea are halting all production on the 360 as we speak since you claim it is dead in the water.

Sony may have planned on winning this next-gen console race, but guess what, toshiba planned on winning the format war. Planning and executing are different. The best business decision microsoft made was releasing the 360 as is for launch. If you could pry your mouth off of sony's ass for 5 minutes you would see im right. Pretty sad that all you sony fanboys have to harp on is hardware failure on the 360. PS3 was supposed to usher in the second coming of jesus with the almighty cell chip, but all it did was solidify developer support for the 360. Good job sony, job well done. Good luck with that 10 year life cycle on the ps3. Im sure you'll be enjoying resistance 4 and uncharted 3 while im playing microsoft's next console.

PS. I've had my 360 since launch, not one problem. So i couldn't care less what the statistics for failure are since they don't apply to me. If yours fails sucks for you. Would be nice if microsoft fixed them for free. Oh wait, they do fix it for free. Sony fixed the problems with my ps and its cd-rom by advising me to turn the system over play it upside down. For my ps2 problems i was offered a $85 repair for something that was their fault.


By robinthakur on 2/19/2008 5:59:54 AM , Rating: 1
Well logically when Sony put BD in the PS3, although its expensive, the buyer (us remember?) wins because its an added feature. When Microsoft rushes a console to market which then turns out to have a major design flaw crippling upto 33% of all its consoles (which we know of) to clobber the competition and screws the buyer (read the fanboys, i.e. you) you applaud them.

Its an unconventional means of building brand loyalty but hey if it seems to work! I will be very hesitant on buying their new Xbox. For one, I would worry that a company which has not recalled a previously defective product would think its ok to do the same again. Secondly, they didn't honour their promises on backwards compatibility and if they drop the 360 the way they abandoned the Xbox overnight, its going to annoy alot of people. It must be really tempting for MS right now to see off Sony with a new Xbox. After all, PC gamers who the Xbox has cannaballized, upgrade every other year so what stopping them buying a new console, new accessories, new games, new carry bags etc...mmmm. What with the current 360 winding down now all the major games have been released already and all performace the system is capable of has been seen pretty much already.


By Squilliam on 2/19/2008 9:09:55 AM , Rating: 2
But P.C Gamers get better toys! :)

I have all 3 systems, yet I still bought 30 games for my P.C vs about 15 for the consoles in the last two years.

We get the next iteration of GPU's later this year, that will mean two full refreshes since the consoles were released and I gotta admit! My 7900gtx is getting a lil slow, hehe. I'll sell my Xbox or PS3 (maybe both! Crossfire gets expensive!) to pay for my new GPU(S) methinks.

This is me looking forward to Farcry/Crysis @ 1920/1080 very high @60FPS. >>>>SMILE<<<<

P.C gaming is alive and well, 14% of the market+whatever digital downloads, is quite comparible to PS3 game market share for instance.


By wolfpack1825 on 2/19/2008 3:51:12 PM , Rating: 2
Looks like everyone must think the xbox360 is dead. WOW you can't buy them in the USA right now. Hmmmm and a PS3 has availibility everywhere, who is winning? LOL

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2260394...


By Zark74 on 2/19/2008 8:39:14 PM , Rating: 2
XBOX360 RROD at GDC08 today, Microsoft own demo model

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2008/02/red_...


By Squilliam on 2/20/2008 3:52:41 AM , Rating: 2
I doubt that there will be anything definative until we see the results of the GTAIV release. How much is that exclsive content worth for the Xbox?

Microsoft probably has a price cut up its' sleeve as well. When these two factors hit the table, it will be possible to say with much higher accuracy how the Xbox will do for the rest of its' life-time.

Until then, everybody STFU about one months' worth of data, not enough to establish any trends.

For the record, im a P.C gamer by heart. But I have all three consoles and a P.C sharing my HD TV


By lexluthermiester on 2/20/2008 5:47:28 PM , Rating: 1
MS is having manufacturing issues. Sony isn't. I disagree with the statement that the 360 is dead, but it does look like it has one foot in the grave. Nintendo is cleaning house and they show no signs of stopping. Try finding a Wii on store shelves. Not going to happen. Nintendo is selling them as fast as they can make them. Sony is doing well with the PSP slim and PS3.

The reason 360 is a little hard to find is because MS isn't making very many, not because demand is high.

And the little article on extremetech is just MS PR try to make things look better than they are.


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